Dodge will be getting rid of Challengers and Chargers in 2024

[benefactor]

As a fan of American muscle cars, I hate to see this happen...and I question this for them financially doing it in such an abrupt manner instead of phasing them out over time. Scrap a whole line of profitable cars trying to usher in the future a bit too quickly?

Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.

[Isitjustme?]

As a fan of American muscle cars, I hate to see this happen...and I question this for them financially doing it in such an abrupt manner instead of phasing them out over time. Scrap a whole line of profitable cars trying to usher in the future a bit too quickly?

Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.

My grandpop worked for Ford and we were a Ford family. Pretty sad to see the only passenger car they make is the mustang and this is probably what will happen to that

[benefactor]

My grandpop worked for Ford and we were a Ford family. Pretty sad to see the only passenger car they make is the mustang and this is probably what will happen to that
I drive a '13 5.0 and I love it. I hate to see the day come when the Mustangs and Camaros go too. I went to HS in the 90s when Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds were all going head to head. I know that we are moving on eventually, I just wish I didn't have to be here for it.

[benefactor]

But lets be real, the V8 culture will never truly leave. There might be significant changes on main roads but you aren't shutting down NASCAR, the NHRA, etc...and they sure as hell aren't racing electrics. There's too much money involved. They will still be on the roads too. Big manufacturers can stop making them, but there will always be an aftermarket base.

[DarrinS]

Not a Dodge fan. Reliability, meh.

[DarrinS]

Exception, Cummins diesel.

[CosmicCowboy]

They will pipe that bad ass V8 sound through the stereo.

[CosmicCowboy]

I drive a '13 5.0 and I love it. I hate to see the day come when the Mustangs and Camaros go too. I went to HS in the 90s when Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds were all going head to head. I know that we are moving on eventually, I just wish I didn't have to be here for it.

Those 5.0 mustangs crack me up. Just unnecessarily noisy as hell. The evolution of the automobile has been amazing. People still romanticize the 60's muscle car era and those things were fucking death traps. My modern pickup with the 6.2 and 10 speed transmission handles better and is faster than most of those stock muscle cars and gets three times the gas mileage.

[Isitjustme?]

Those 5.0 mustangs crack me up. Just unnecessarily noisy as hell. The evolution of the automobile has been amazing. People still romanticize the 60's muscle car era and those things were fucking death traps. My modern pickup with the 6.2 and 10 speed transmission handles better and is faster than most of those stock muscle cars and gets three times the gas mileage.

Plz be boring elsewhere, we talking bout muscle cars now, grampa. thank you

[CosmicCowboy]

Plz be boring elsewhere, we talking bout muscle cars now, grampa. thank you

LOL. I have owned and driven Corvettes and Z28s so can speak with some authority on the subject and those 60s muscle cars were OK for going in a straight line but sucked at anything else. They couldn't handle or stop for shit.

[Dirks_Finale]

I think they are brought back by 2030. Those are staples and the demand will always be there for them.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think they are brought back by 2030. Those are staples and the demand will always be there for them.

Yeah, after they crash the electrical grid.

[CosmicCowboy]

To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.

When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.

Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn’t have the emotion. It doesn’t have the drama. It doesn’t have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it’s loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”

[Monostradamus]

With everyone driving trucks and CUV’s, it’s just a pain to drive an actual car because visibility sucks on the road. I’m sure at some point the pendulum will swing back, especially when car companies remember how much cheaper they can produce cars vs CUVs.

[Trill Clinton]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in a hellcat and be willing to hold it for a while. The value is going to skyrocket.

[Monostradamus]

Also half the fun of owning a muscle car was driving a stick shift. I know that automatic transmissions are actually faster these days, but tbh driving a Mustang/Camaro/Corvette with an automatic is still super gay :lol also I don’t know that I could get into another Mustang knowing it just runs on batteries.

[Leetonidas]

What's the reasoning behind scrapping it? Environmental i assume?

[baseline bum]

What's the reasoning behind scrapping it? Environmental i assume?

Must not be selling well and this gives them an opportunity to rebrand. No way Dodge gives two fucks about the environment.

[daboom1]

Mods please move thread to its proper place in the Club :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

Must not be selling well and this gives them an opportunity to rebrand. No way Dodge gives two fucks about the environment.

It's the fuel economy mandates. By 2026 the fleet has to average 40mpg so they are forced to go electric on their cars to balance out the gas guzzling pickups which are their big moneymakers.

[Ef-man]

Also half the fun of owning a muscle car was driving a stick shift. I know that automatic transmissions are actually faster these days, but tbh driving a Mustang/Camaro/Corvette with an automatic is still super gay :lol also I don’t know that I could get into another Mustang knowing it just runs on batteries.

Eh, on the realistic side, driving a muscle car with stick shift in heavy stop and go traffic really, really, really sucks.

[ChumpDumper]

So funny that they're trying to replicate the worst trait of these cars. The noise is just so whorey.:lol

[spurraider21]

With everyone driving trucks and CUV’s, it’s just a pain to drive an actual car because visibility sucks on the road. I’m sure at some point the pendulum will swing back, especially when car companies remember how much cheaper they can produce cars vs CUVs.
i think there was a good argument before that people were too quick to get CUVs or compact SUVs just because they had one kid, as you dont really need that much space to throw in a fucking soccer ball and backpack.

but with how massive modern car seats are (especially the infant rear facing ones), makes it an easy decision tbh. and depending on where you live, having all wheel drive may or may not be useful

but people without kids or grandkids they ferry around definitely dont need to be buying anything bigger than a sedan

[Winehole23]

PjjNvjURS-s

[Monostradamus]

i think there was a good argument before that people were too quick to get CUVs or compact SUVs just because they had one kid, as you dont really need that much space to throw in a fucking soccer ball and backpack.

but with how massive modern car seats are (especially the infant rear facing ones), makes it an easy decision tbh. and depending on where you live, having all wheel drive may or may not be useful

but people without kids or grandkids they ferry around definitely dont need to be buying anything bigger than a sedan
For sure, families need larger vehicles. But like 90% of truck owners don’t even need a truck, and even most families don’t need an Expedition or a Tahoe, the could do fine with a CX-5 or a Sportage.

The oversized truck/SUV market needs to die. Hopefully with the Ford Maverick being a success, the small truck trend comes back.

[spurraider21]

For sure, families need larger vehicles. But like 90% of truck owners don’t even need a truck, and even most families don’t need an Expedition or a Tahoe, the could do fine with a CX-5 or a Sportage.

The oversized truck/SUV market needs to die. Hopefully with the Ford Maverick being a success, the small truck trend comes back.
i find it very hard to justify those huge SUVs with the third rows. unless you spring for a Suburban or Tahoe, the third rows are basically economy airplane seats as far as leg space, at best. so unless you have an army of toddlers that are never going to age, the third row is a nuisance more than anything. if you actually need a 3rd row, it might not be sexy, but get a fucking minivan. for 15-20k less than a tahoe or suburban, you can get a sienna which is much more roomy and fuel efficient (think theyre basically all hybrids now), and still get awd.

now minivans do have poor clearance, and dont have the towing capacity that SUVs have, so unless you are a family of 5+ who regularly tows shit like campers or boats, and drive on weird mountainous terrain where clearance matters, you should never be buying a 3 row behemoth SUV

and unless you have an extended family that you pretty regularly ferry around, people unnecessarily buy 3 row vehicles which they usually just ending up folding down for the storage space anyway :lol

[DMC]

Thank god

Every nutjob "have to hit 60 before the next light 200 yards away" driver I see is in either a charger, mustang or camaro.

[DMC]

Exception, Cummins diesel.

10 years ago. Today with DEF and shit it's just a money pit.

[CosmicCowboy]

10 years ago. Today with DEF and shit it's just a money pit.

Agreed unless you have to tow super heavy loads. Stupid as a daily driver.

[hater]

Duh. American cars suck in terms of value and reliability.

That includes Teslard

[Monostradamus]

Duh. American cars suck in terms of value and reliability.

That includes Teslard
Despite their reputation, American cars are consistently #2 in reliability behind Japan now. Granted, it’s a distant second place, but they’re usually ranked ahead of Korean cars and way ahead of any European brand.

But yes, Tesla is garbage at build quality, they’re usually at the bottom of any ranking :lol

[benefactor]

Also half the fun of owning a muscle car was driving a stick shift. I know that automatic transmissions are actually faster these days, but tbh driving a Mustang/Camaro/Corvette with an automatic is still super gay :lol also I don’t know that I could get into another Mustang knowing it just runs on batteries.
Mine is a stick. People say it's a pain in traffic but I've been driving them so long it doesn't even bother me

[Monostradamus]

Mine is a stick. People say it's a pain in traffic but I've been driving them so long it doesn't even bother me
Stick shifts are a great theft deterrent too these days, since nobody under 30 knows how to drive one :lol

[DMC]

Agreed unless you have to tow super heavy loads. Stupid as a daily driver.

Nothing's worse than the Ford 6.0L piece of shit EGR and oil cooler mounted just above the HPOP with a screen that ruptures by breathing on it, 5K worth of work only blow head gaskets later when water gets into the wrong pipe. Then the variable vane turbo cokes up and won't transition so you lose low end.

Hey, 30K and you can bullet proof it!

No more diesels for me. Like you said, either it runs all the time or you don't need it.

[DMC]

Mine is a stick. People say it's a pain in traffic but I've been driving them so long it doesn't even bother me

Makes it weird to drive an auto though, your hand keeps looking for the shifter so you can keep jogging it to ensure it's in neutral.

[CosmicCowboy]

That 10 speed auto that Ford and GM developed together is amazing if you take care of it. In my AT4 at 85mph its only turning 1800 RPM. In my old Vette with the Muncie 4 speed at 1/4 the weight would be twice the RPM at 85.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think all the auto manufacturers are intentionally fucking their customers by recommending 10,000 mile oil changes. In my fleet we do mobil 1 oil changes at 5000 and trans change and flush every 35,000. The manual on my truck didn't even mention changing the trans fluid. You can easy get 200,000+ miles out of any new vehicle if you keep clean fresh fluids in them.

[Dirks_Finale]

I think all the auto manufacturers are intentionally fucking their customers by recommending 10,000 mile oil changes. In my fleet we do mobil 1 oil changes at 5000 and trans change and flush every 35,000. The manual on my truck didn't even mention changing the trans fluid. You can easy get 200,000+ miles out of any new vehicle if you keep clean fresh fluids in them.

Yeah I don't buy the new 10k oil change non sense. I change the synthetic around 7k. Also, i went to Toyota not long ago asked for a transmission fluid change and they acted like they didn't want to do it :lol They claim it's not necessary now. Amazing considering how quick they usually are to run up the score on you and take as much $ as possible. It's obvious to me that they have marching orders to discourage trans fluid changes in hopes that you will ultimately buy a new transmission instead.

[hater]

Despite their reputation, American cars are consistently #2 in reliability behind Japan now. Granted, it’s a distant second place, but they’re usually ranked ahead of Korean cars and way ahead of any European brand.

But yes, Tesla is garbage at build quality, they’re usually at the bottom of any ranking :lol

IMO korean cars took #1 spot in reliability

I dokt evennthink american cars are better than chinese cars at this point.

Yes Teslas suck ass. A friend tried to buy one and after waiting over 1 year for one, picked it up from dealer. It was filthy they did not even bother to clean it and then it shut down on his way home. So he hD to tow it back :lmao

He then purchase a Cadillac. Which is a very nice car

[hater]

Euro cars suck ass.I agree.

I was a BMW fan but I dont think they have made anything worth a shit since 2005

I also had a volvo suv which is great. But reliability sucks. Started leaking oil. So I had to pay $2,000 to "fix" it and immediately sold it. Nownhave a Mazda SUV. Which I think is great but Mazda service sucks ass comoared to Volvo, Lexus or BMW

Still solid car tho

[hater]

My sporty car is a KIA stinger. Damn beast and reminds me of my old e36 m3 :cry

[Monostradamus]

IMO korean cars took #1 spot in reliability

I dokt evennthink american cars are better than chinese cars at this point.
Your opinion is retarded :tu

[hater]

Your opinion is retarded :tu

Disagreed

Cheers :tu


https://www.wired.com/story/jd-power-korean-cars-beat-us-europe-quality/

[hater]

Some more sand for an eye :lmao

J.D. Power Finds Korean Car Manufactures Make the Most Reliable Cars

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/j-d-power-finds-korean-car-manufactures-make-most-reliable-cars/

[Dirks_Finale]

Some more sand for an eye :lmao

J.D. Power Finds Korean Car Manufactures Make the Most Reliable Cars

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/j-d-power-finds-korean-car-manufactures-make-most-reliable-cars/

I've heard that J.D.Power is crooked as hell and their ratings can not be trusted.

[hater]

I've heard that J.D.Power is crooked as hell and their ratings can not be trusted.

agree 100% and them admitting that Korean cars are more reliable than Japs or Muricans makes it even more notable :D

[CosmicCowboy]

I will say that KIAs 100,000 mile warranty made me look at the Telluride for the wife but they are so rare I'm not gonna pay 10k over list when a dealer gets one plus the colors suck.

[CosmicCowboy]

Plus KIA drivers generally suck.

[DMC]

Some more sand for an eye :lmao

J.D. Power Finds Korean Car Manufactures Make the Most Reliable Cars

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/j-d-power-finds-korean-car-manufactures-make-most-reliable-cars/

Did they beat out the Japs? When did the US make the most reliable car? 1920?

[DMC]

I think all the auto manufacturers are intentionally fucking their customers by recommending 10,000 mile oil changes. In my fleet we do mobil 1 oil changes at 5000 and trans change and flush every 35,000. The manual on my truck didn't even mention changing the trans fluid. You can easy get 200,000+ miles out of any new vehicle if you keep clean fresh fluids in them.

With trucks the scam is to list HP and torque just above the competitor spec, then at first service visit, reflash the vehicle to lower both to avoid increased warranty costs. Been going on for decades.

[hater]

Plus KIA drivers generally suck.

:lmao

They used to say the same about BMW drivers until the cars started sucking :lmao

[ElNono]

Still have my Lexus, which runs amazing, and still going strong at 110k miles, never let me down.

But starting to look into my next car. Thinking hybrid just because I can save ~10k between federal and state discounts.

Really love the new Mercedes EQS, but not ready for fully electric yet. Thinking Lexus RX/NX/LS, Audi Q3/Q5, BMW X3/X5

[DMC]

Still have my Lexus, which runs amazing, and still going strong at 110k miles, never let me down.

But starting to look into my next car. Thinking hybrid just because I can save ~10k between federal and state discounts.

Really love the new Mercedes EQS, but not ready for fully electric yet. Thinking Lexus RX/NX/LS, Audi Q3/Q5, BMW X3/X5
Toyota's are good cars.

[CosmicCowboy]

Toyota's are good cars.

They started selling their plug in electric this year and had to recall all of them because the wheels were literally falling off.:p:

[hater]

Still have my Lexus, which runs amazing, and still going strong at 110k miles, never let me down.

But starting to look into my next car. Thinking hybrid just because I can save ~10k between federal and state discounts.

Really love the new Mercedes EQS, but not ready for fully electric yet. Thinking Lexus RX/NX/LS, Audi Q3/Q5, BMW X3/X5

I had my 98 Ls400 still going strong till a girl killed it by running into me :(

Toyotas/lexus are still decent cars but not as good as 15 years ago

:lol audi and bmw is shit now. Good luck driving to the dealership every month :lmao

[DMC]

If you lease, damn near any car you're comfortable driving and like the features of is a good one, since you swap out regularly before the warranty expires. I've had 5 different cars in the past 15 years and only once needed an unscheduled dealer visit.

[ElNono]

Toyota's are good cars.

Yes they are.

[Ef-man]

Yes they are.


Could be that Toyotas are good cars, as there are so many on the road, but they attract bad drivers.

From my experience, older model Camrys are operated by bad driver (e.g., changed lanes without using turn signal, foot constantly on brakes, driving erratically, driving much less than speed limit).

[spurraider21]

I will say that KIAs 100,000 mile warranty made me look at the Telluride for the wife but they are so rare I'm not gonna pay 10k over list when a dealer gets one plus the colors suck.
Telluride and the Palisade are nice looking vehicles. But I’d never get one for reasons already articulated

[spurraider21]

If you lease, damn near any car you're comfortable driving and like the features of is a good one, since you swap out regularly before the warranty expires. I've had 5 different cars in the past 15 years and only once needed an unscheduled dealer visit.
Sure but that’s a somewhat costly luxury. Everyone values cars differently though. Especially if their career or lifestyle calls for them to be in their car very often

[ElNono]

Could be that Toyotas are good cars, as there are so many on the road, but they attract bad drivers.

From my experience, older model Camrys are operated by bad driver (e.g., changed lanes without using turn signal, foot constantly on brakes, driving erratically, driving much less than speed limit).

I can't tell you about the drivers. The cars consistently rate amongst the most reliable though.

[Monostradamus]

I’ve never equated Toyotas with bad drivers, other than maybe aggressive soccer moms. Seems like Nissan is the Japanese brand with a reputation for bad/shady drivers with all the “Altima with paper tags” memes

[DMC]

Sure but that’s a somewhat costly luxury. Everyone values cars differently though. Especially if their career or lifestyle calls for them to be in their car very often

The point wasn't about leasing, but about comparing quality of cars based on the warranty period of ownership. It's after the warranty that quality cars shine, luxuries aside.

[DMC]

I can't tell you about the drivers. The cars consistently rate amongst the most reliable though.

Most common car on the road could be a Camry. It would stand to reason that the odds of finding a shitty driver are greater if you filter to most popular car model.

[ElNono]

Most common car on the road could be a Camry. It would stand to reason that the odds of finding a shitty driver are greater if you filter to most popular car model.

Could be. I personally distinguish shitty drivers by states/areas. ie: New Yorkers love to stay in the left lane even if they're dragging their asses on the road.

Rural areas (ie: South Texas/RGV) seem to have a limiter on the gas pedal, tbh... speed limit doesn't matter, it's 25mph to 35mph and that's pushing it... smh