Interesting article about Toyota

[CosmicCowboy]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/13/why-toyota-the-worlds-largest-automaker-isnt-all-in-on-evs.html

[Th'Pusher]

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/13/why-toyota-the-worlds-largest-automaker-isnt-all-in-on-evs.html

We’re moving in the right direction when the automakers are debating whether to go hybrid or full electric.

I tend to agree with Toyota the global infrastructure won’t be in place for full electric. Hybrids are still a cleaner solution than all gas.

And I’m fine with groups like the Sierra Club pushing automakers for a fully electric solution. Ultimately the product and the market will dictate winners and losers.

[CosmicCowboy]

This was especially interesting:


The batteries in electric vehicles are extremely costly, and the prices continue to increase due to inflation and demand for materials such as lithium, cobalt and nickel that are needed to produce the battery cells.

Raw material costs for electric vehicles more than doubled during the coronavirus pandemic, according to consulting firm AlixPartners.

That makes Toyota’s hybrid strategy somewhat economical — relatively speaking. Toyota also contends that there just aren’t enough of such minerals to go around.

“Over the next 10 years or so, there’s going to be tremendous bottlenecks in lithium supply around the world,” Pratt said. “Just look at the number of mines that need to be made. There’s also going to be a bottleneck in battery-grade nickel because the number of refineries that need to be paid when the demand is going up so fast.”

The Metals Co., a Canadian-based start-up, estimates there is significantly insufficient production of battery-grade nickel, cobalt and manganese sulfate to reach U.S. EV targets by 2030.

The publicly traded mining company forecasts that even if all forecast nickel sulfate production through 2030 from U.S. and free trade agreement countries went into producing electric vehicles, it would supply less than 60% of EV targets set by automakers during that timeframe.

[leemajors]

It's good the EPA is setting up recycling for LI ion batteries then, hopefully people will stop just throwing them away. I know Apple does some recycling for materials like this, but the only place I can think of near me is to drop them at Batteries Plus.

[Winehole23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcnOhTWacAI3Mn2?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Brazil]

Toyota position and strategy are the more pragmatic of all tbh... they are receiving some shit for that but one cannot deny the impossible challenge that would represent a 100% EV by 2030.

In the article they are giving a bit of insight about future lack of material and dependency of China.
I'm not sure if people realize the magnitude of that. China has near 40% of rare earth oxides reserve, counts for near 70% of mining and 90% of transformation. China also represent 95% of magnet production.

In the actual context and tensions with Taiwan one cannot depend that much of China tbh... For now research teams are working on solution without rare earth but it is really early stage.

So yeah Toyota is probably the smart kid of the class room

[Blake]

Prius batteries have always been expensive from what I've heard over the years. Just off the top, I recall someone telling me it was $5k to replace it about find years ago

[Winehole23]

Ford related:


Ford dealers could pay over $1 million in order to sell EVs

Yes, you read that right, but before you say anything on Twitter, keep reading, because this strategy makes a lot of sense at its core. As you may recall, Ford split its passenger vehicle business in two this past March, creating separate entities under the blue oval brand:




Ford Blue: Combustion vehicles (now including plug-in hybrids)
Model e: Battery electric vehicles
Ford Pro: Commercial/fleet vehicles

News of the Ford Pro strategy was shared with dealers at the automaker’s annual dealer meeting last year and since then, many of those businesses have been selling and servicing vehicles from all three divisions. Now however, Ford hitting its network of dealers with another potentially game changing curveball – hop on the magic carpet ride (with your own money) and sell Model e vehicles, or just stick to combustion and circle back in a few years.


Still following? Let’s clarify, because the Ford team will be the first to admit that this transition is ever-evolving and will take massive funds, strategy, and time. That said, dealers need to decide quickly if they’re in or out… at least for this first wave. Here are some key ideas to note.


Five new pillars for Ford dealers to sell EVs


With these new dealer commitments, Ford is laying the foundation for a bright future in EV sales, not only in retail, but online as well. In a sit down with a small group of media yesterday, Ford executives from all three divisions, as well as CEO Jim Farley, presented the future of Model e dealerships, built upon five pillars. He explained:
We’re betting on the dealers, we’re not going to go direct. But we need to specialize. We do that with unique standards.

Here they are:




Training:

Specialized EV teams that are knowledgeable across sales and ownership
EV University to train dealers and subsequently, customers


Charging:

Back-of-house charging infrastructure to support sales, maintenance, and care
Public DC fast chargers available on Blue Oval Network (see more below)
96% of the US population lives within 20 miles of a Ford dealer, 85% live within ten miles – by implementing fast chargers at dealers, it helps ensure customers always have somewhere to charge their EV, even if they don’t have their own home to do so


eCommerce:

Transparent, non-negotiable pricing

To be clear, dealerships still set the pricing, that’s the law. However, Ford wants pricing to be consistent and fair for its customers and said it will be monitoring the process from entry to exit to ensure that the customer signs on the dotted line for the same price as originally promised on day one.
Ford says it will be surveying customers post sale and monitoring the consistency of prices across different customers at each dealer




Opportunity for the greatest customer satisfaction
Ford told us it saw online orders jump from 6% to 50% in one year


Physical Experiences:

Remote delivery available to all Model e customers
Pickup and delivery offered with a loaner to all Model e customers


Digital Experiences:

Software and subscription opportunities available
Ford Pass perks


Ford has essentially given its dealers a kind, but firm ultimatum – sell EVs under these new standards or don’t, they will support them either way.
For dealers interested in sticking with Model e and selling Ford branded EVs, they must be certified under one of two categories, which will require a hefty dealer investment no matter what.
https://electrek.co/2022/09/14/ford-sets-new-dealers-requirements-in-order-to-sell-evs/

[DMC]

I lease my main driver and haven't gone to EV but have considered it. The drawback for me currently is range and recharge time. I don't mind an overnight recharge at a hotel but I need more range than the 250ish available now. The hybrid makes sense for this reason and once batteries and charging times improve, and there are more charging options nationally, full EV makes the most sense.

[boutons_deux]

Toyota was betting on hydrogen earlier

There's a ton of research on producing hydrogen efficiently, new chemistry, new catalysts, not dead,yet

Also a ton on research on batteries that use metals and minerals other than lithium, cobalt,etc.

Still early days, $Ts in play

[boutons_deux]

It's good the EPA is setting up recycling for LI ion batteries then, hopefully people will stop just throwing them away. I know Apple does some recycling for materials like this, but the only place I can think of near me is to drop them at Batteries Plus.

I think it was tesla or google cofounder that is setting up a Li battery facility

[MultiTroll]

Toyota was betting on hydrogen earlier

There's a ton of research on producing hydrogen efficiently, new chemistry, new catalysts, not dead,yet

Also a ton on research on batteries that use metals and minerals other than lithium, cobalt,etc.

Still early days, $Ts in play
Truly a technical delay with hydrogen or simply the gas, oil and electrical pigs blocking?

[boutons_deux]

EV trucks powered by hydrogen being tested