Article: Spurs Rumblings Before the Start of Preseason

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-insider-tidbits-preseason/

This is going to be a really interesting preseason, IMO. It'd be cool if Sochan starts right away -- but I'm mentally preparing for McDermott. :lol We'll also get to see what type of potential Vassell has offensively and if there are any signs that Tre Jones can shoot.

Unfortunately, two main storylines (Primo gunning for the PG job and Keldon trying to prove he can play out on the perimeter) are in a holding pattern for the time being . . . . . . .

[Ariel]

Like I said in another thread that this was posted, thanks, nice work. Pretty much what common sense would dictate, no more toilet in the kitchen kind of line ups. The only worry I have is that, although if definitely makes more sense from a basketball standpoint (Tre @ PG, Vassell @ 2, Keldon @ 3, McDermott / Sochan @ 4 & Poeltl @ 5), and with all those guys having something to prove (Poeltl, Vassell & Tre are facing a contract year, Keldon wants to become "the guy", & McDermott will fight not to become trade fodder), it will definitely make us win more games than strictly necessary for a high pick. The thought of OKC sidelining SGA with phantom injuries and landing Wembanyama as a result makes me sick to my stomach.

[BacktoBasics]

timvp.

Do you truly believe that the Spurs are trying to shoehorn Primo into the PG spot? My gut has always told me that his time at PG was more of a developmental thing vs. actually preparing him to be a PG. A lot of the ball handling aspects and understanding of the game can come from time spent at that position. You know, get him thinking about how a “team” works.

I’ve always thought the idea was to expand his skill set and accelerate development in certain areas of his game, not to actually make him a PG.

[CGD]

We’ll lose a lot, but still excited to see the young guys develop. Most pumped for my guy Vassell and that 3rd year jump!

[CGD]

Still hoping they move Jakob before the start of the season.

Deal with CHI makes a lot of sense:
Jakob for Vuc + 23FRP (via Por) + 28FRP (light protections)

[mo7888]

Still hoping they move Jakob before the start of the season.

Deal with CHI makes a lot of sense:
Jakob for Vuc + 23FRP (via Por) + 28FRP (light protections)

Is there any realistic chance that they'd offer that? I don't see it..

[KingKev]

Still hoping they move Jakob before the start of the season.

Deal with CHI makes a lot of sense:
Jakob for Vuc + 23FRP (via Por) + 28FRP (light protections)

So that means the Bulls will have traded Otto Porter Jr, WCJ and 4 first round picks for Jak

LOL

[MultiTroll]

Do you truly believe that the Spurs are trying to shoehorn Primo into the PG spot?
"Last season, Johnson played the majority of his minutes at power forward."

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bryn-forbes-and-patty-mills-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-talk-against-the-picture-id901301050?s=594x594
https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/CSzU0FWldy1q8NrwTG6WeQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTQ4MA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/uA0D7illtDRg_bi62DNfKw--~B/aD0xMDAwO3c9MjAwMDthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/insider_articles_922/35fc899d4f5dd59f6a7ab999d13b4b14

I’ve always thought the idea was to expand his skill set and accelerate development in certain areas of his game, not to actually make him a PG.
We can pray for a type of Intervention.

[objective]

Really not looking forward to having to watch McDermott take minutes from Sochan, or, well, pretty much anyone. I guess I'd rather watch him then Weiskamp or Romeo.

[Mr. Body]

Tough to see two non-shooters in the starting line-up in Jones and Sochan. I'm really intrigued to see what Primo does this year. He's the dumping ground for the professional grousers on this board but they could be very wrong.

[The Truth #6]

Yak, Sochan, Jones — all three non shooters. Will be interesting. I see Jones shooting better, but it’s a low bar.

[ismael-robert]

Jones n sochan can shoot...just let em shake the rust off

[BacktoBasics]

Tough to see two non-shooters in the starting line-up in Jones and Sochan. I'm really intrigued to see what Primo does this year. He's the dumping ground for the professional grousers on this board but they could be very wrong.
Primo is the current scapegoat for the cynics. Rightfully so, I suppose… and I’m a Primo fan.

From the moment they drafted him the team has sold him high. One could easily make the case the Murray became expendable partly due to their belief that Primo could potentially be a better player.

Primo becoming an All-Star seems far fetched but I like his game. He’s deceptively crafty and seemed overly deliberate in taming his wilder tendencies. So I don’t see why he can’t open that up again but with more thought and measured control.

I’ll reserve judgement until well passed the halfway point.

I think it’ll be a rocky start.

Something about this team tells me they think they can win games early on.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Are there any rumblings about Poeltl possibly agreeing to a max (for him) extension? Sure, it'd be a little below his projected value, but he might value security. Some not dissimilar players (Adams, Nance) have extended at a similar price.

Also, Tre Jones sounds like he has deserved an extension himself. Any news on that front?

[BacktoBasics]

If this team thinks it can turn itself around in 3 years poodle would be worth keeping.

[Dejounte]

I think if any extension is happening, it will happen after preseason.

[KobesAchilles]

I think I threw up a little when I read that Poeltl is our best player

[venitian navigator]

For the starting lineup PF position I see Roby (last year starter in okc) as a better solution than McDermott (not a of) and Sochan (rookie). Doesn't bother that he can defend decently and shoot a little...

[tbdog]

I don't see how Sochan starts with Poeltl and Jones starting also. Three non shooters is a hard ask.

[heyheymymy]

Jones/Wesley/(Hall)
Vassell/Primo/Branham
Johnson/Richardson/McDermott/Langford
Roby/Sochan/KBD
Poeltl/Zollins/Dieng/(Barlow)

Starting 5:

Jones
Vassell
Johnson
Roby
Poeltl

Bench:

Primo
Richardson/Branham
McDermott
Sochan
Collins/Dieng

Could see Spurs trying to get non traditional ball handlers to bring up or initiate offense. Primo slotted at the 1 but really playing mostly off ball 2 while someone like Vassell Richardson or Branham is slotted at the 2 but bringing up and or orchestrating the half court sets.

[heyheymymy]

Could see that 13th dress out being a rotating test run for KBD, Wesley or Langford depending on matchup, if you wanted to showcase for a trade (KBD or Lang), or if you wanted to test a skill you've been working on with them.

[Dejounte]

Jones/Wesley/(Hall)
Vassell/Primo/Branham
Johnson/Richardson/McDermott/Langford
Roby/Sochan/KBD
Poeltl/Zollins/Dieng/(Barlow)

Starting 5:

Jones
Vassell
Johnson
Roby
Poeltl

Bench:

Primo
Richardson/Branham
McDermott
Sochan
Collins/Dieng

Could see Spurs trying to get non traditional ball handlers to bring up or initiate offense. Primo slotted at the 1 but really playing mostly off ball 2 while someone like Vassell Richardson or Branham is slotted at the 2 but bringing up and or orchestrating the half court sets.

Great rotation and explanation, I have had the same thoughts. Primo playing those backup point duties is definitely a possibility, similar to how White played that position out of necessity and not because it was best suited for him.

My only disagreement is with McD at 3. I don’t think he spent a minute there last season and no reason for him to suddenly be able to play there this season either. Unlike Keldon, he hasn’t improved his agility so defense would be even worse if he was counted on to defend perimeter wings. We’ll see.

[heyheymymy]

I feel like Vassell can shift up to the 3 situationally. Johnson and McDermott can shift up to the small ball 4 situationally. Wonder if Sochan and possibly Roby can do some situational Center?

Pretty versatile group. Putting Johnson or McDermott on the wing with Roby/Dieng inside could be a 3PT threat with some ball movement. Tons of guard combos that potentially could be dynamic. Will be fun to watch development this year. Excited to hear Pop has the open mind.

[heyheymymy]

Great point DJ. I worry about McDermott being able to cover freak PFs defensively but he does slot better naturally in the 4. Plus unless Sochan is just a total meteor I bet Spurs will need some coverage in the PF slot. Sochan's rookie limitations and Roby still learning the playbook- there is some time at the 4 for sure especially early on.

I expect a pretty tight Roby/Sochan (dare I say Sochan/Roby even?) PF rotation for San Antonio by the last 30 games or so though, should be enough time to acclimate and excel.

[Dejounte]

I think there’s more you can get away with defensively at the 4 simply because there aren’t that many freak PFs (if by this, you mean big and physical) in the NBA right now. I think, most times, just having a body there to stop players is somewhat enough defensively as a 4. On the other hand, if a player is assigned to defend quick, perimeter players then the defense completely breaks down and the Center is more likely to get into foul trouble.

so while the bar is low for a 4 to be good defensively, the upside is extremely high. I think that’s why they drafted Sochan to begin with; if he works out for us, the team defense would be extremely good. I can’t think of many elite defensive 4’s in the NBA right now— only guards, wings, and centers. I think it’s an untapped area ever since the NBA changed into what it is now. The NBA hasn’t seen the perfect defensive 4 who can literally guard 2-5 and provide elite help defense. When that day comes (hopefully it’s Sochan), it’s going to be game-changing.

[CGD]

Is there any realistic chance that they'd offer that? I don't see it..

It depends how desperate Bulls get and whether they’re gonna throw good money at this mediocre core. Best situation is they start well again and they convince themselves they’re a piece away.

— Vuc is clear dead weight for the
and is basically a 22M expiring now.
— the crappy POR pick is cost to the salary differential between Jak and Vuc (~13M)
- the later pick is value for Jak himself (+ Byrd rights)

[John B]

I’m not really excited to see McBuckets starting at PF. This defeats the purpose of Keldon playing 3 and likelihood of Poeltl again overhelping defensively. I say start Sochan at PF from Day 1. It’s all about developing this year, and no better way to develop than having him play that PF as much as possible, meaning starter minutes.

I really want them to move Doug asap, and avoid losing either KBD or Langford. You can never have enough mobile big in KBD, and there still much to tap in Langford, while Doug is..Doug.

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8), you didn’t mention anything about Zollins. Is it because he’s not standing out like Tre or Keldon. I think Zollins is also another one that many Spurs fans are excited about. First, if they’re eventually moving Jak, is Zollins a capable replacement? Honestly I like to keep Jak if Sochan/Poeltl clicks. Is Zollins just a 2nd stringer behind Jak? Jak is > defensively while Zollins > offensively and takes some pressure off Sochan as a perimeter shooter, idk.

Primo as a franchise player, but at what position? Tre is the best PG we have. Devin is likewise our best SG and will be a beast at 6’7, Keldon has the starting 3 as long as he wants it. And Primo is doubtful better at PF than Sochan/Toby. So which starting position if Primo is going to be a franchise player?

Any word of trade for picks before season starts? I wish it’s McBuckets they are moving but unlikely at this time, while it might be valuable to move by trade deadline when playoff-bound teams are getting ready to add more pieces. I surely don’t like to lode either KBD or Langford just to be at 17.

[KingKev]

^ Vassell looks like he put some muscle on but I doubt he grew 2 inches.

[Ariel]

Honest question: were Manu & TP franchise players? They were vital cogs of championship teams, HoF, but could they carry a franchise by themselves? I think not...
This is to put into perspective just how high the bar is set for you to be considered a franchise player... I don't really know if they really believe it or they're pulling our leg, TBH.

[Dex]

Got my ATX tickets for "when the Spurs move to Austin" :rolleyes

[Dex]

Honest question: were Manu & TP franchise players? They were vital cogs of championship teams, HoF, but could they carry a franchise by themselves? I think not...
This is to put into perspective just how high the bar is set for you to be considered a franchise player... I don't really know if they really believe it or they're pulling our leg, TBH.

I think if you put prime TP or Manu on a shitty team like Sacramento or Charlotte or whatever and give them the keys to be the #1 option...they would have put up bigger stats and could be viewed as a "franchise guy". Keep in mind there were plenty of "franchise guys" like Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady, or Steve "The Franchise" Francis who never even made the Finals.

Would they be the types to single-handedly carry a team to the Finals? Probably not....but they definitely sacrificed personal stats for the team concept, and still managed to be All-Star caliber players.

[John B]

^ Vassell looks like he put some muscle on but I doubt he grew 2 inches.

So the one on NBA.com 6’5 is without shoes? Because I see him 6’7 on other websites.

[KingKev]

So the one on NBA.com 6’5 is without shoes? Because I see him 6’7 on other websites.

NBA requires annual measurements (shoeless) submitted by team physicians each fall.

Players who attend the combine are measured in shoes and shoeless. Vassell never attended the combine.

[John B]

NBA requires annual measurements (shoeless) submitted by team physicians each fall.

Players who attend the combine are measured in shoes and shoeless. Vassell never attended the combine.

Well at least it’s the unathletic Forbes, Mills. Devins height and reach will be a pleasant change, on top of his smooth offense and plus defender

[offset formation]

I think there’s more you can get away with defensively at the 4 simply because there aren’t that many freak PFs (if by this, you mean big and physical) in the NBA right now. I think, most times, just having a body there to stop players is somewhat enough defensively as a 4. On the other hand, if a player is assigned to defend quick, perimeter players then the defense completely breaks down and the Center is more likely to get into foul trouble.

so while the bar is low for a 4 to be good defensively, the upside is extremely high. I think that’s why they drafted Sochan to begin with; if he works out for us, the team defense would be extremely good. I can’t think of many elite defensive 4’s in the NBA right now— only guards, wings, and centers. I think it’s an untapped area ever since the NBA changed into what it is now. The NBA hasn’t seen the perfect defensive 4 who can literally guard 2-5 and provide elite help defense. When that day comes (hopefully it’s Sochan), it’s going to be game-changing.

He, Sochan that is, says he can guard 1-5. He's such a mystery as to fit on thus team simply because we haven't seen him out there and don't know what the coaches have planned as far as scheme goes for him. Really hopeful he turns into more than expected. Still hopeful on Vassell and Primo, btw, if used and developed properly.

[KingKev]

It’s probably worth noting the level of competition at training camp. Might want to consider the guys who look good are actually playing against lol

[Dejounte]

heyheymymy

https://twitter.com/paulgarcianba/status/1577813078669926400?s

Looks like McD is projected to play the 3 after all! Looks like there is an emphasis to play bigger this year.

Updating my projected rotations:

Tre/ Primo/ Wesley/ Hall
Vassell/ JRich/ Branham
Keldon/ McDermott/ Wieskamp
Sochan/ Roby/ KBD
Poeltl/ Collins/ Dieng/ Barlow

[KingKev]

heyheymymy (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=30197)

https://twitter.com/paulgarcianba/status/1577813078669926400?s

Looks like McD is projected to play the 3 after all! Looks like there is an emphasis to play bigger this year.

Updating my projected rotations:

Tre/ Primo/ Wesley/ Hall
Vassell/ JRich/ Branham
Keldon/ McDermott/ Wieskamp
Sochan/ Roby/ KBD
Poeltl/ Collins/ Dieng/ Barlow

The repatriation of our guys to their natural positions is damn refreshing.

[heyheymymy]

Good heads up thanks! I think McD will still shift up to PF a lot situationally but I agree it's refreshing to see guys seeming like they won't play mad scientist roles on the Spurs this season.

[offset formation]

The repatriation of our guys to their natural positions is damn refreshing.

Except Primo of course. He's closer to a 4 than a 1. But youre right, if that lineup shakes out, I'll take it.

[KingKev]

Except Primo of course. He's closer to a 4 than a 1. But youre right, if that lineup shakes out, I'll take it.

Repatriate Primo to the G-League where he belongs.

[GAustex]

^in coming Miss Cleo to infer a bright future if only u are patient

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Repatriate Primo to the G-League where he belongs.
https://s4.gifyu.com/images/1657091749851.mp4.gif

[poopbox]

Oh so Keldon is going to play the 3 now like some of us have been saying he should have been doing since I don't know...the day he was drafted :rollin

[offset formation]

Oh so Keldon is going to play the 3 now like some of us have been saying he should have been doing since I don't know...the day he was drafted :rollin

Yes. Now fast forward to 3 years from now after Primo spends the next 2 years being square pegged into the round hold of playing PG. It'll be deja-vu all over again..

[DPG21920]

I said it before but I will say it again after watching pre season: SA needs to trade Jak/Richardson (Doug sucks already so his value is already cooked) immediately or risk running their values into the ground.

I dont see a path at improving their stock. They arent the type of players to put up stats on a bad team - they are great role players that get elevated and help winning teams. There is nothing but downside at this point to holding onto them IMVHO

[BacktoBasics]

I said it before but I will say it again after watching pre season: SA needs to trade Jak/Richardson (Doug sucks already so his value is already cooked) immediately or risk running their values into the ground.

I dont see a path at improving their stock. They arent the type of players to put up stats on a bad team - they are great role players that get elevated and help winning teams. There is nothing but downside at this point to holding onto them IMVHO
It’s not just about improving stock.

There will be teams that are buying high right now that could be buying aggressively at the trade deadline. Moves will be made and both those players could push a playoff team into a deeper run. So if you can’t get the value you want now there’s a chance you could at the deadline.

Obviously I’m all for a deal now if there’s one to be made. But it would be stupid to give these guys up for 2nd rounder this early.

[poopbox]

It’s not just about improving stock.

There will be teams that are buying high right now that could be buying aggressively at the trade deadline. Moves will be made and both those players could push a playoff team into a deeper run. So if you can’t get the value you want now there’s a chance you could at the deadline.

Obviously I’m all for a deal now if there’s one to be made. But it would be stupid to give these guys up for 2nd rounder this early.

I agree. People already know what Rich, Poeltl, and Doug can and can't do. None of these 3 are going to play well for 20 games and make a team who wasn't going to give up a first for them...give up a first for them. Spurs best bet is to hang on to them until the trade deadline where there will be one team under performing and looking for a vet to right the ship or over performing and looking for a vet to propel them cause they are better than they thought and might come to realize a future 1st round pick isn't helping them as much as a veteran player.

[KingKev]

^ the only disagreement I have here is that if McBooger shows he can be a high volume sniper some playoff teams might view him more valuably.

With regards to Jak I think sans DJ his job just got alot harder though and he’s going to look worse on the offensive end.

[Mr. Body]

I said it before but I will say it again after watching pre season: SA needs to trade Jak/Richardson (Doug sucks already so his value is already cooked) immediately or risk running their values into the ground.

I dont see a path at improving their stock. They arent the type of players to put up stats on a bad team - they are great role players that get elevated and help winning teams. There is nothing but downside at this point to holding onto them IMVHO

I just don't know if 'improving their stock' is a thing in the NBA when it comes to veterans. Everyone in the league knows what Josh Richardson and Jakob Poeltl can do. It's not a mystery. A good example of how teams actively know what players are even when playing (or not playing) for bad teams is Thad Young last year. Toronto understood him as having value and traded for him.

[DPG21920]

I just don't know if 'improving their stock' is a thing in the NBA when it comes to veterans. Everyone in the league knows what Josh Richardson and Jakob Poeltl can do. It's not a mystery. A good example of how teams actively know what players are even when playing (or not playing) for bad teams is Thad Young last year. Toronto understood him as having value and traded for him.

Maybe true, but my point was they can definitely hurt their stock. I agree, nothing can be done to improve it, but they can really tank their value if they are seen as more flawed than expected because team around them suck.

[The Truth #6]

Then Yak and Jrich should get the Thad treatment: don’t play them so we don’t drag them through the mud or risk injury.