Where Spurs Slot Throughout The League

[TD 21]

Solid to low end starters: Poeltl, Vassell, Johnson

Rotation players: Richardson, McDermott, Collins

Fringe rotation players: Roby, Jones, Branham, Sochan, Primo

Deep bench players: Dieng

Fringe players: Wesley, Langford, Bates-Diop, Johnson, Wieskamp

Non-NBA players: Barlow, Hall, Kuhse

[Chinook]

I don't have Vassell in the same category as Keldon and Jakob. I also understand the idea of your looking at the players for who they are in terms of current impact on the league. But I think how players are view is inevitably tied into their potential.

Actualize role-players: Poeltl, McDermott and Richardson -- Jakob is that with good value, McDermott negative and Richardson neutral

Current starter with some potential: Johnson

Role-player with potential: Vassell

Fringe rotation player: Roby, Jones, Collins

Roster filler vet: KBD, Dieng

Prospect with sizeable potential: Primo, Sochan, Branham, Wesley

Flotsam, but maybe they become something: Wieskamp, Langford, Barlow, Hall, Kuhse

Just Flotsam: Johnson

Categories not represented: All levels of star, "elite role-player", "key rotation player" and "Blue-chip prospect"

[tonight...you]

No disrespect to TD 21
But I think Chinook kind of nailed it.

Good stuff though!

[KingKev]

I agree with Chinook other than “prospect with sizeable potential” unless “sizeable potential”
means similar careers to DJ at best.

Not enough evidence they aren't along the track of any of our recent draft picks which is a high end role player or borderline all star.

[KingKev]

Keldon & Vassell are on Derek White’s level. Primo is a rookie who has shown NOTHING.

Sochan, Wesley, Branham are as good of prospects as walker IV was and Vassell currently is. Not saying they won’t become all-star caliber players but let’s manage expectations.

[TD 21]

I don't have Vassell in the same category as Keldon and Jakob. I also understand the idea of your looking at the players for who they are in terms of current impact on the league. But I think how players are view is inevitably tied into their potential.

Vassell's malleability (better on/off ball defender, can credibly start at two positions) makes him a more universal starter than Johnson, even if he's a slightly worse player based on most recent evidence.

Fair enough on the prospects, I just thought that went without saying so I preferred to slot them in where I'd guess they are entering the season. Of course, in their cases it's subject to change in relatively short order.

[Chinook]

I agree with Chinook other than “prospect with sizeable potential” unless “sizeable potential”
means similar careers to DJ at best.

Not enough evidence they aren't along the track of any of our recent draft picks which is a high end role player or borderline all star.

I mean, "sizeable potential" to be something like you expect them to improve by a tier (rotation player/role-player) or two (elite role-player/key rotation player/average starter), MAYBE three (high end-starter/lower-level star) if everything goes right. But you don't see a star or centerpiece. If you did, they'd be in the "blue-chip" category. I did say in there that the Spurs don't have a "blue-chip prospect", so I didn't mean that those guys had discernable potential to be elite. I think if they reached Murray's talent but with skills better suited for the modern NBA that they'd be home-run picks. There are only so many fringe All-Stars in the league. That's at worst top-75 placing. That's above-average starter, if not lower-tier star. I've been trying to guess too much about "ceilings", but if you told me that an optimistic but still somewhat possible roadmap for each of those guys takes them to being top 2-3 players on a generic team, I'd actually feel pretty good. You can put those guys around a star. You can trade those guys for pieces.

As far as how other teams view those players, I think they aren't yet willing to pay for Johnson what the Spurs would need to get to trade him (and by the time they are willing, the Spurs would want even more), they value Poeltl but want the Spurs to be reasonable. Vassell is a prospect who isn't interesting yet. Sochan and Primo are likely in the same category because they're willing to defer to the Spurs and will assume SA won't part with them. Branham and Wesley are probably too close to their own prospects to worry about. Any of the other young ones are flotsam. An FO might like one or two of those guys as fliers in the right circumstance, but they would rather add them as two-ways or 10-days later on.

[Chinook]

Vassell's malleability (better on/off ball defender, can credibly start at two positions) makes him a more universal starter than Johnson, even if he's a slightly worse player based on most recent evidence.

Fair enough on the prospects, I just thought that went without saying so I preferred to slot them in where I'd guess they are entering the season. Of course, in their cases it's subject to change in relatively short order.

On Vassell, I just don't think he's been good enough to slot him in a top-eight spot. Johnson has. I don't disagree that Vassell's archetype is more valuable, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he were the young guy with the highest trade value throughout the league. But I interpreted this thread as more like "If you took all the players in the league and dumped them into a pile before asking a random collection of GM's to sort the players into various pre-determined boxes, in which box would they put each player on the team?" Under those circumstances, I don't think that collection of GMs would see Vassell as a current starter. A guy with a good roadmap toward becoming a starter this year? Maybe. He's not even a positive player in most categories, and unlike offensive engines, Devin's archetype is one that normally grades out well.

[KingKev]

Chinook as always with a balance of reason. Bro writes a novel
but is still succinct.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

otoh chinook is always wrong

[TD 21]

On Vassell, I just don't think he's been good enough to slot him in a top-eight spot. Johnson has. I don't disagree that Vassell's archetype is more valuable, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if he were the young guy with the highest trade value throughout the league. But I interpreted this thread as more like "If you took all the players in the league and dumped them into a pile before asking a random collection of GM's to sort the players into various pre-determined boxes, in which box would they put each player on the team?" Under those circumstances, I don't think that collection of GMs would see Vassell as a current starter. A guy with a good roadmap toward becoming a starter this year? Maybe. He's not even a positive player in most categories, and unlike offensive engines, Devin's archetype is one that normally grades out well.

It's mostly that, but I'm also factoring in expected progression based on a combination of rumors and hypothesis, which is why I have Vassell as a low-end starter and Primo as a fringe rotation player.

[tbdog]

I think vassel will have between a year 2 and 3 Paul George type of season. I am high on him. I think he has allstar level potential.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I mean, "sizeable potential" to be something like you expect them to improve by a tier (rotation player/role-player) or two (elite role-player/key rotation player/average starter), MAYBE three (high end-starter/lower-level star) if everything goes right. But you don't see a star or centerpiece. If you did, they'd be in the "blue-chip" category. I did say in there that the Spurs don't have a "blue-chip prospect", so I didn't mean that those guys had discernable potential to be elite. I think if they reached Murray's talent but with skills better suited for the modern NBA that they'd be home-run picks. There are only so many fringe All-Stars in the league. That's at worst top-75 placing. That's above-average starter, if not lower-tier star. I've been trying to guess too much about "ceilings", but if you told me that an optimistic but still somewhat possible roadmap for each of those guys takes them to being top 2-3 players on a generic team, I'd actually feel pretty good. You can put those guys around a star. You can trade those guys for pieces.

As far as how other teams view those players, I think they aren't yet willing to pay for Johnson what the Spurs would need to get to trade him (and by the time they are willing, the Spurs would want even more), they value Poeltl but want the Spurs to be reasonable. Vassell is a prospect who isn't interesting yet. Sochan and Primo are likely in the same category because they're willing to defer to the Spurs and will assume SA won't part with them. Branham and Wesley are probably too close to their own prospects to worry about. Any of the other young ones are flotsam. An FO might like one or two of those guys as fliers in the right circumstance, but they would rather add them as two-ways or 10-days later on.
What is the point of evaluating the potential of players who have not played a single game in the NBA?
Have you seen Curry, Giannis, Jokic and Kawhi as franchise players after the summer league or after the first two seasons?

[Dejounte]

So this is their level right now and ignores their potential…

Elite star:
Star:
Fringe star:

High end starter: Keldon, Poeltl
Starter material: Vassell
Fringe starter material: Sochan

High end 6th man: Richardson, Branham, Primo
valuable bench piece: McDermott, Tre, Roby, Collins, KBD
bench player who is playable in spurts: Wesley, Wieskamp

Unplayable because they suck or aren’t ready for NBA minutes: Dieng, Barlow, Hall

[Maddog]

So this is their level right now and ignores their potential…

Elite star:
Star:
Fringe star:

High end starter: Keldon, Poeltl
Starter material: Vassell
Fringe starter material: Sochan

High end 6th man: Richardson, Branham, Primo
valuable bench piece: McDermott, Tre, Roby, Collins, KBD
bench player who is playable in spurts: Wesley, Wieskamp

Unplayable because they suck or aren’t ready for NBA minutes: Dieng, Barlow, Hall

Not saying I disagree
But based on this the Spurs have no stars and only 3 players of starting quality. Of course this is not a static list as Sochan or Primo could move.
How would this compare to the others in the race to the bottom?

[Dejounte]

Not saying I disagree
But based on this the Spurs have no stars and only 3 players of starting quality. Of course this is not a static list as Sochan or Primo could move.
How would this compare to the others in the race to the bottom?

What this looks like and another team looks like is only looking at one piece of a big picture. It’s never linear in the NBA and most times, it’s about flexibility and structure. While another team may have a star, that star might walk out in a year. Too many variables to look at it this way.

[ragas]

The Spurs need not only 1, not 2, but 3 Top3 draft picks at least to become somehow relevant in the next decade. And even in this case they must hope that these players - IF they have star potential - wanna stay longterm. I wouldn't bet on it. It's gonna be a long and winding road that could end with the Spurs leaving San Antonio.

[ragas]

The Spurs need not only 1, not 2, but 3 Top3 draft picks at least to become somehow relevant in the next decade. And even in this case they must hope that these players - IF they have star potential - wanna stay longterm. I wouldn't bet on it. It's gonna be a long and winding road that could end with the Spurs leaving San Antonio.

The good thing: They'll have plenty of top3 draft picks.

[rjv]

No disrespect to TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781)
But I think Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) kind of nailed it.

Good stuff though!

i second that motion.

[ismael-robert]

Who cares...someone needs to meet u nerds after school lol

[tonight...you]

Who cares...someone needs to meet u nerds after school lol
https://j.gifs.com/73WvPO.gif

[Ariel]

I don't think it makes any sense to lump our rookies together with veterans in the evaluation, when they haven't played a single NBA game. As far as I'm concerned, their category is TBD until we have actual data to judge them on. As for the rest, I mostly agree with Dejounte, except I'm not so optimistic on KBD.

[TD 21]

:lmao At the too cool for school yet often lurking Trump tard and the guy always looking for irrelevant conversation playing holier than though, while as usual not contributing anything of substance to the discussion and criticizing those who have the audacity to.

Do the rest of the board a favor and take your miserable asses elsewhere.

[Maddog]

What this looks like and another team looks like is only looking at one piece of a big picture. It’s never linear in the NBA and most times, it’s about flexibility and structure. While another team may have a star, that star might walk out in a year. Too many variables to look at it this way.

I actually agree. You can find dramatic shifts of fortune and examples even with the Spurs.
But right now- at this moment - is there another team with only 3 players of starting quality?

[tonight...you]

:lmao At the too cool for school yet often lurking Trump tard and the guy always looking for irrelevant conversation playing holier than though, while as usual not contributing anything of substance to the discussion and criticizing those who have the audacity to.

Do the rest of the board a favor and take your miserable asses elsewhere.
holier than thou

I know, phones and their autocorrect...
They suck.

[ismael-robert]

When everything's made up there's no substance

[TD 21]

holier than thou

I know, phones and their autocorrect...
They suck.

:lmao Nitpicking a typo and playing grammar police.

As I said, as usual not contributing anything of substance to the conversation.


When everything's made up there's no substance

:lmao Not understanding the concept of a message board.

[tonight...you]

:lmao Nitpicking a typo and playing grammar police.

As I said, as usual not contributing anything of substance to the conversation.


:lmao Not understanding the concept of a message board.
So defensive! I even said I understand autocorrect.
And you didn't say that to me, KingKev (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52391) did...
Huh.
Makes you think.
You like playing with yourself?

[TD 21]

So defensive! I even said I understand autocorrect.
And you didn't say that to me, KingKev (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52391) did...
Huh.
Makes you think.
You like playing with yourself?

You liked an ignorant comment, I returned serve, but somehow that makes me defensive and you're not.

That makes a lot of sense.

[tonight...you]

You liked an ignorant comment, I returned serve, but somehow that makes me defensive and you're not.

That makes a lot of sense.
Me liking a comment hurt you too?
Okay... Go back to playing with yourself- errr... KingKev.

[JakeCuenca]

You liked an ignorant comment, I returned serve, but somehow that makes me defensive and you're not.

That makes a lot of sense.

This forum is dead. The vast majority of posters now are low IQ casual fans.

Back on topic, none of the Spurs players would start for like 20 NBA teams. Only two would have an Ok playing time (15mpg) and that would be for a borderline playoff team.

it’s insane, but everything that has happened in San Antonio would have been avoidable. Shame this org is now run by incompetent people when it used to be run by an OK staff supported by perennial superstars

[KingKev]

This forum is dead. The vast majority of posters now are low IQ casual fans.

Back on topic, none of the Spurs players would start for like 20 NBA teams. Only two would have an Ok playing time (15mpg) and that would be for a borderline playoff team.

it’s insane, but everything that has happened in San Antonio would have been avoidable. Shame this org is now run by incompetent people when it used to be run by an OK staff supported by perennial superstars

Post more sir, I need a fking ally!!!

[tonight...you]

lol

[KingKev]

Me liking a comment hurt you too?
Okay... Go back to playing with yourself- errr... KingKev (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52391).

I mean you are a fucking clown. You’ve posted about your “peepee” and how you treat your employees at your day job but can’t hang when it comes to conversing about basketball.
TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) and I have had our pissing matches but at least both of us talk about basketball. You just talk.

[tonight...you]

I mean you are a fucking clown. You’ve posted about your “peepee” and how you treat your employees at your day job but can’t hang when it comes to conversing about basketball.
TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) and I have had our pissing matches but at least both of us talk about basketball. You just talk.
I did no such thing liar.

[KingKev]

I did no such thing liar.

I had no involvement in your pissing match but you kept tagging me so now that I am here I’ll tell you that I think you are fucking strange.

[tonight...you]

I had no involvement in your pissing match but you kept tagging me so now that I am here I’ll tell you that I think you are fucking strange.
So strange you have to lie about me and talk about peepees and shit?
You're the strange one.

[TD 21]

I did no such thing liar.


So strange you have to lie about me and talk about peepees and shit?
You're the strange one.

So defensive!