Grades: Spurs vs. Magic - Preseason Game #2

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-orlando-magic-preseason-game-2/

Still on track for that 0-87 season.

[illusioNtEk]

Kill that z tank!!

[Ariel]

Thanks, unfortunately couldn't watch the game and had to settle for highlights, but so far pretty much expected display from our rookies. Really looking forward to watching them play again.

[stnick2261]

the Spurs actually led a majority of the game until the fourth stringers fumbled away the win in the fourth quarter.

This is exactly what I want to read every game this year.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, it would have been a win if not for the deep bench. Orlando didn't look great, but went ahead and beat the Mavs last night. Whatever. It's preseason.

[Dejounte]

36ers beat the Suns… it’s just pre-season, don’t read too much into it.

36ers beat the Spurs… lol least talented team in the league

[spurs10]

On track for a winless season! Woot!

[slick'81]

Poor spurs

[Ariel]

36ers beat the Suns… it’s just pre-season, don’t read too much into it.

36ers beat the Spurs… lol least talented team in the league
On a serious note... which would be the teams the current Spurs roster is ranked above? Here's a potential list... clearly we have a long way to go...
Teams with way more talent in their prime:
Golden State Warriors
Boston Celtics
Cleveland Cavaliers
Milwaukee Bucks
Philadelphia 76ers
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Memphis Grizzlies
Dallas Mavericks
Phoenix Suns
Atlanta Hawks

Teams with more (but dwindling) talent:
Miami Heat
LA Clippers
Brooklyn Nets
Los Angeles Lakers
Chicago Bulls
Portland Trail Blazers

Upcoming teams with significantly more talent:
New Orleans Pelicans
Toronto Raptors

Rebuilding teams with significantly more talent:
Detroit Pistons
Orlando Magic
Oklahoma City Thunder
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
Sacramento Kings

Teams with more talent (but within reach):
Charlotte Hornets (if they lose Miles Bridges)
New York Knicks (with Jalen Brunson aboard)

Teams with similar or lower talent:
Washington Wizards
Utah Jazz

[Dejounte]

“Talent” is subjective as hell and I think it’s a foolish exercise to pretend to know which teams belong to which category. Especially a list where teams are categorized as having more talent but year after year fail to make any push towards progress (is this the year the Rockets or Thunder finally get out of picking top 5?). All that “talent” then a few years later, they’re forgotten and either waived or shipped to another team. But fans have short memory and only look at the present and say, “well, they’re picking top 5 this year!” clueless about what they said a few years ago about the same team.

and obviously, what I’m saying above doesn’t apply to realized talent where players have shown consistency and contributions to winning, i.e. teams with Curry, LeBron, etc.

[Ariel]

Talent categories are just constructs that serve as a rough framework to make sense of something that is ultimately impossible to define or measure. No one here is pushing human knowledge forward, what is foolish is to pretend just about anything ever argued on a sports forum is any different.

[Dejounte]

Why try to make sense of something that isn’t possible to define or measure? It’s disingenuous to act like you’re just “trying to make sense of something” when that’s the exact narrative you and some others push on here with every post. Almost as disingenuous as replying to someone about how McDermott doesn’t help the offense and then back out of the conversation pretending you weren’t the one who brought it up.

[K...]

you should rate talent and discipline, the ability to build a coherent teams. That's where teams fail and the free agency rules are not favorable to it.

The spurs have below average coaching (pop is near retirement and not especially good at rebuilding that we know of), average Front office, average ownership. On paper they could have superior discipline from their history and prestige, but i doubt it

[Dejounte]

you should rate talent and discipline, the ability to build a coherent teams. That's where teams fail and the free agency rules are not favorable to it.

The spurs have below average coaching (pop is near retirement and not especially good at rebuilding that we know of), average Front office, average ownership. On paper they could have superior discipline from their history and prestige, but i doubt it


I agree with this. Applying historical context and not looking at things one dimensionally is the way to go and leads to fruitful conversation. Your assessment of the Spurs is fair and easier to accept than just flat out saying “the Spurs have the least talent and have nowhere to go because of my subjective opinion”. When you look at it from that perspective, you then look at a team like the Rockets who have mismanaged things for years and have faced serious embarrassment over and over yet we’re supposed to rate them highly because 1) they look good after a couple preseason games and 2) fans have a hard time looking further than one year and are focused on the present.

It’s the “high pick or bust” attitude that typically ignores many aspects of team development that people don’t realize are important, too. Maybe it’s a hard concept to grasp if you haven’t worked in corporate, but there are many things that go in to running a successful organization than just getting that one “super employee” that you think will save the business.

Folks need to realize the goal isn’t to find lightning-in-a-bottle success, but to find lasting success. Having the environment that allows that when it comes is key. If you’re preparing for a baby, do you throw away all the diapers, baby formula, cradle, etc? Do you only start buying those things when the baby is born?

[TD 21]

:lmao At this board scolding people for having subjective opinions and pretending the Thunder (entering year 4) and Rockets (less than 2 full years) have been in the wilderness for a decade.



On a serious note... which would be the teams the current Spurs roster is ranked above? Here's a potential list... clearly we have a long way to go...
Teams with way more talent in their prime:
Golden State Warriors
Boston Celtics
Cleveland Cavaliers
Milwaukee Bucks
Philadelphia 76ers
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Memphis Grizzlies
Dallas Mavericks
Phoenix Suns
Atlanta Hawks

Teams with more (but dwindling) talent:
Miami Heat
LA Clippers
Brooklyn Nets
Los Angeles Lakers
Chicago Bulls
Portland Trail Blazers

Upcoming teams with significantly more talent:
New Orleans Pelicans
Toronto Raptors

Rebuilding teams with significantly more talent:
Detroit Pistons
Orlando Magic
Oklahoma City Thunder
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
Sacramento Kings

Teams with more talent (but within reach):
Charlotte Hornets (if they lose Miles Bridges)
New York Knicks (with Jalen Brunson aboard)

Teams with similar or lower talent:
Washington Wizards
Utah Jazz

Not sure how the likes of the Cavaliers, Grizzlies and Hawks are in the first column, but the Craptors are in the third.

I also disagree with the Pacers and Kings inclusion in the fourth and the Wizards in the sixth.

[Dejounte]

:lmao At this board scolding people for having subjective opinions and pretending the Thunder (entering year 4) and Rockets (less than 2 full years) have been in the wilderness for a decade.




Not sure how the likes of the Cavaliers, Grizzlies and Hawks are in the first column, but the Craptors are in the third.

I also disagree with the Pacers and Kings inclusion in the fourth and the Wizards in the sixth.

I know you’re just trying to be friendly, but you don’t have to say “people” when I’m the only guy you’re referencing :)

Call it scolding, if you will. But you’ve done your fair share of scolding to other folks who don’t have the same opinion as you, going as far as subscribing to the group A vs group B nonsense…

I don’t feel like going back and forth with you like our old days, I’m not in the mood to. Nothing I’m saying is personal.

[ismael-robert]

I just laugh at spending minutes of life to invent and pull made up categories out a wahzoo that u won't find on any analysis site...respect to people who enjoy using stats (facts, data) or video (observations) rather than using time to fling poo at wall

[rankingtear]

Utah has lower talent.

I would say we on par with Indiana, not that high on Hali I think your stuck if he's your primary.

[poopbox]

On a serious note... which would be the teams the current Spurs roster is ranked above? Here's a potential list... clearly we have a long way to go...
Teams with way more talent in their prime:
Golden State Warriors
Boston Celtics
Cleveland Cavaliers
Milwaukee Bucks
Philadelphia 76ers
Denver Nuggets
Minnesota Timberwolves
Memphis Grizzlies
Dallas Mavericks
Phoenix Suns
Atlanta Hawks

Teams with more (but dwindling) talent:
Miami Heat
LA Clippers
Brooklyn Nets
Los Angeles Lakers
Chicago Bulls
Portland Trail Blazers

Upcoming teams with significantly more talent:
New Orleans Pelicans
Toronto Raptors

Rebuilding teams with significantly more talent:
Detroit Pistons
Orlando Magic
Oklahoma City Thunder
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
Sacramento Kings

Teams with more talent (but within reach):
Charlotte Hornets (if they lose Miles Bridges)
New York Knicks (with Jalen Brunson aboard)

Teams with similar or lower talent:
Washington Wizards
Utah Jazz

Spurs need their own category at the very bottom. If they played every team in the league 5 times I can't imagine they would win 3.

Average at best veteran players.
Young players still waiting to have a breakout season.
Senile old coach who took 3 years to recognize that a guy who should have been a 3...is a 3.
Brain drain on all of our assistance who go on to do bigger and better things than watch said senile coach lose to the thunder 1 or 2 times a year.

This is the darkest timeline. We don't get tall tony parker in the draft we going to be trash for a decade.

[Seventyniner]

The Thunder and Rockets are not the teams the Spurs should be afraid of becoming. It's teams like the Kings/Magic/Knicks/Wizards that are the exemplars of a clearly dysfunctional organization.

[TD 21]

I know you’re just trying to be friendly, but you don’t have to say “people” when I’m the only guy you’re referencing :)

Call it scolding, if you will. But you’ve done your fair share of scolding to other folks who don’t have the same opinion as you, going as far as subscribing to the group A vs group B nonsense…

I don’t feel like going back and forth with you like our old days, I’m not in the mood to. Nothing I’m saying is personal.

You're not the only one who does it though, which is why I didn't directly quote you.

I don't do that even if it is perceived or portrayed by some as such. Group A vs group B?

That's another misconception.



The Thunder and Rockets are not the teams the Spurs should be afraid of becoming. It's teams like the Kings/Magic/Knicks/Wizards that are the exemplars of a clearly dysfunctional organization.

Meddlesome, impatient ownership and lack of draft luck are mostly to blame for the latter situations.

There's more talent entering the league now than even a half decade ago though. Virtually every team that's entered a re-build recently has in short order assembled or is in the process of assembling intriguing young cores.

They won't all become good teams obviously, but they're far better off than they were a few years ago.