Josh Primo Does Not Look Like a Potential Franchise Player

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I don't know what TIMVP's sources in the Spurs FO are thinking here, because I just don't see it. I can see Primo possibly developing into a high quality role player at some point, but the fact that he isn't starting and hasn't really stood out at this point is telling. What does he project to do at an elite level? His defense has been mostly poor, he does not look like a primary ball handler, and his scoring really doesn't jump out at you. He's also definitely not a plus athlete.

So what is the FO seeing? It's disappointing that a team this reliant on the draft took what looks like a giant swing and miss on this guy, but it's deeply concerning that they are doing such a terrible job of talent evaluation on a player they've had in the system for over a year. I really don't think Brian Wright is the guy to be leading this franchise in a rebuild. He has done nothing to date that I've found particularly noteworthy.

[Uriel]

He's 19.

[rjv]

Thanks for sharing

[rankingtear]

You have to watch games to see it.

[baseline bum]

He's 19.

So was Parker but it was obvious he was a star in the making the second he stepped on the court. Which is why the Sonics offered Gary Payton for him after seeing him in two summer league games.

[spurraider21]

The sky doesn’t look purple

[spurraider21]

He's 19.
:lmao top 5 team in the west

[KobesAchilles]

This thread is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too premature to make. Don’t you know how it works around here? You have to wait 4 years to make any type of judgment on him. And then After that 4th year people here will still say well he’s only 23 and he has plenty of time to grow into a better player. That’s just the way it works with Spurstalk :lol

[Russ]

To be fair, the 12th pick in the draft is usually not a franchise player.

[Atl Spur]

This thread is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too premature to make. Don’t you know how it works around here? You have to wait 4 years to make any type of judgment on him. And then After that 4th year people here will still say well he’s only 23 and he has plenty of time to grow into a better player. That’s just the way it works with Spurstalk :lol

Common sense and historical data should always be exercised but people like you have agendas that must be met. Manu, Tony , and Kawhi we’re all viewed as sure fire stars at 19…….clown! There are more names I can add if you need me to. Let the kid mature bro and if he ends up not being that dude you told us so!

[Atl Spur]

To be fair, the 12th pick in the draft is usually not a franchise player.

Stop using sensible available data for your position….. these boys just talk for attention.

[mo7888]

You may not see it but I think I do... He's the 12th pick and obviously not a sure thing but he's got alot of tools that give him a real shot at making it. He's woefully deficient in some areas but he's got time and will have the opportunity to put that together. I can't say for sure that he's gonna make it but a 12th pick on a team like we have he's certainly worth the investment and the gamble. If it pays off it'll payoff big and if it doesn't we didn't lose much looking at the players drafted after him.

[Chomag]

Stop trying to make him a point guard might be a good start.

[rankingtear]

I don't know what TIMVP's sources in the Spurs FO are thinking here, because I just don't see it. I can see Primo possibly developing into a high quality role player at some point, but the fact that he isn't starting and hasn't really stood out at this point is telling. What does he project to do at an elite level? His defense has been mostly poor, he does not look like a primary ball handler, and his scoring really doesn't jump out at you. He's also definitely not a plus athlete.

So what is the FO seeing? It's disappointing that a team this reliant on the draft took what looks like a giant swing and miss on this guy, but it's deeply concerning that they are doing such a terrible job of talent evaluation on a player they've had in the system for over a year. I really don't think Brian Wright is the guy to be leading this franchise in a rebuild. He has done nothing to date that I've found particularly noteworthy.

Does not compute.

[Dejounte]

DJ, now Keldon, and probably soon Vassell (I’m not as big of a believer, but who knows) all raised their perceived ceiling every year they were a Spur. Murray, and especially Keldon, were said to be destined to be role players at best in their first and second years. That noise became quieter and quieter every year and of course, would pop back in every time they had a bad game… but eventually, it stopped.

I’m not saying that Primo is going to go that route— I still have reservations about him, namely because of his extreme carelessness with the ball.

[ducks]

So was Parker but it was obvious he was a star in the making the second he stepped on the court. Which is why the Sonics offered Gary Payton for him after seeing him in two summer league games.

Yes sir !

[Mr. Body]

I don't knw if he even has All-Star capability, but am willing to wait. But to me it's clear he's playing within himself learning his roles.

[BackHome]

I like Primo but he is not a PG he has no burst and doesn’t have the court vision - But he does need work on his handles so playing backup PG will only help him in the long run as he is a SG/SF

[Dejounte]

I will say this: the Spurs have not married themselves to any player as of late (except maybe Keldon because he fits their mold) and if they decide Primo isn’t it, then I think they will swiftly make a move from him… and Branham & Wesley will be right there as the next man up.

[mo7888]

I will say this: the Spurs have not married themselves to any player as of late (except maybe Keldon because he fits their mold) and if they decide Primo isn’t it, then I think they will swiftly make a move from him… and Branham & Wesley will be right there as the next man up.

Longer-term If Primo can improve his handle I could see a Primo-Wesley back court. I think they can potentially complement each other pretty well...

[BackHome]

I just like our young players to get better every year so even bare minimum we can work out a trade and get something in return.

[Leetonidas]

Still way too early to make that call imo but it isn't looking great thus far. He doesn't seem to be above average at really anything yet. Just gotta hope it clicks for him at some point

[wildbill2u]

We have seen franchise players who entered into the league at comparable ages and without full four years of college experience. Their ability showed itself early and didn't need four years to develop---so, no, Primo is not going to be a franchise player. I see his highest development as eventually a capable starter, but he might not get there. Meanwhile he most resembles Slo Mo Anderson in physical ability, but more willing to take a shot than Anderson ever was. He needs a new nickname and I'm going with Half Fast. :clap

[GAustex]

Nice kid
‘‘Twas a poor pick
Why is the picker not held accountable

[KobesAchilles]

Common sense and historical data should always be exercised but people like you have agendas that must be met. Manu, Tony , and Kawhi we’re all viewed as sure fire stars at 19…….clown! There are more names I can add if you need me to. Let the kid mature bro and if he ends up not being that dude you told us so!
My only agenda is that Primo wasn’t worth the pick. I loved the Kawhi trade immediately. I didn’t think he would be a star but I knew he was better than George Hill (another guy I hated). Parker you could see star written all over him immediately. He was literally the fastest player with the ball in his hands I had ever seen and maybe in NBA history. And I don’t know about Manu bc I didn’t know who tf he was when he was 19. But all those people you can name, I can name a lot more than you that ended up sucking or not working out. Bc very few people become stars in the NBA. You have to have something you’re elite at and Primo has nothing.

[jeebus]

I do love the wrist slitting this site does.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

My only agenda is that Primo wasn’t worth the pick. I loved the Kawhi trade immediately. I didn’t think he would be a star but I knew he was better than George Hill (another guy I hated). Parker you could see star written all over him immediately. He was literally the fastest player with the ball in his hands I had ever seen and maybe in NBA history. And I don’t know about Manu bc I didn’t know who tf he was when he was 19. But all those people you can name, I can name a lot more than you that ended up sucking or not working out. Bc very few people become stars in the NBA. You have to have something you’re elite at and Primo has nothing.
And what did Isaiah Thomas, Domantas Sabonis, Pascal Siakam, Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, Marc Gasol and Steve Nash have at the elite level in the first season?

[KobesAchilles]

And what did Isaiah Thomas, Domantas Sabonis, Pascal Siakam, Jimmy Butler, DeMar DeRozan, Marc Gasol and Steve Nash have at the elite level in the first season?
Which IT? Bc they were both considerably faster than Primo. By like a lot. They were also much better ball handlers than Primo by a lot. It’s also not Primos rookie year. It is his second year. Also the others were considerably bigger than Primo. Gasol had elite size. Siakim has elite athleticism and so does DeRozan when he was young. He was a much better athlete than Primo.

Nash is a much rarer type than Primo but if you’re using him as an example then the Spurs would have gotten rid of Primo long before he became good so it’s a moot point to make.

[The Truth #6]

They could be praising him to “pump and dump” for a future trade a la George Hill. Doubtful but anything is possible.

[ginobilized]

Spurs have proven over and over that they can develop players. Their metrics for choosing players seems to fit their development plan pretty well.
We have been so spoiled from the home runs of George Gervin, the Admiral, TD, Tony, Manu and Kawhi. Our expectations are quite askew, often times.
Most players drafted don't amount to much in the NBA. Primo may or may not turn a corner and reach a higher level as a player. It would be more unusual if he did.
Of course, we want the best for a player, but, they are not all bound for the HOF.
I fully expect the same questions to come up over Sochan.

Yet, I still return to the epic cycles of cliff-jumping and over-reacting of Spurstalk.

Spurs fans are an oddity. Imagine being Sacramento and having almost no one pan out for the last 20 years.

[RC_Drunkford]

Gotta be patient with Primo. I never saw him as a franchise player, but he's young and I can see him putting it all together after 4-5 years in the league where he has no weakness in his game other than quickness and athleticism. Let's see what he does this year. I really want him to become an iso scorer for the 2nd unit, but he doesn't seem to be there at all.

[emanueldavidginobili]

DJ was more raw at 19 than Primo was and he was in college at Primos age. Granted DJ showed great potential on defense but DJ used to dribble to his waist and couldn’t dribble for shit. I’ll give DJ credit he has a great work ethic and incredible drive which helped him elevate himself to AS level. If Primo was a franchise type of player we would see the flashes now, and I don’t see it. All Star caliber players could take some years to see the results and I’m still hopeful that is possible, franchise player no way.

[rankingtear]

DJ was more raw at 19 than Primo was and he was in college at Primos age. Granted DJ showed great potential on defense but DJ used to dribble to his waist and couldn’t dribble for shit. I’ll give DJ credit he has a great work ethic and incredible drive which helped him elevate himself to AS level. If Primo was a franchise type of player we would see the flashes now, and I don’t see it. All Star caliber players could take some years to see the results and I’m still hopeful that is possible, franchise player no way.

Man curry completely changed the game, where was he at 20. Learning to run the point at a mid major college.

[John B]

It’s too early too judge at 19. I understand that Spurs took a big swing at 11th. And that pick has been tediously discussed here. It’s a big gamble. But with Spurs small market, it’s almost the only way to land a franchise player. I don’t think anyone would’ve predicted Nephew to be as good a player as he is now, yet Pop gave up his “favorite” player to draft him. More often than not you get a bust, but also a chance to get a Giannis, who himself was a big risk at 15th being 190 lbs and relatively unknown. Again you trust that your system would land you a real good player. And the training and hard work to develop him as such. Josh seems a nice hard working kid. Just relax and trust the process. And maybe soon you’ll hear everybody saying, “Spurs have done it again.” :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::bobo

[K...]

I love when people say "i could see it immediately that parker was a star" while ignoring the gravity of Duncan in his prime. Yeah, most guards will succeed. also why compare a fast guard without shooting to primo? why set arbitrary deadlines about players the spurs seem to like? maybe the spurs are blind dead dumb about primo, but if you do think he's a bust, then great news, westy will succeed him and you'll have your mini parker out of control speedster

[emanueldavidginobili]

Man curry completely changed the game, where was he at 20. Learning to run the point at a mid major college.
Curry had the ball in his hands at all times and was the top dog. Primo was 3rd option and sat in the corner at Bama.

[BacktoBasics]

It’s too early too judge at 19. I understand that Spurs took a big swing at 11th. And that pick has been tediously discussed here. It’s a big gamble. But with Spurs small market, it’s almost the only way to land a franchise player. I don’t think anyone would’ve predicted Nephew to be as good a player as he is now, yet Pop gave up his “favorite” player to draft him. More often than not you get a bust, but also a chance to get a Giannis, who himself was a big risk at 15th being 190 lbs and relatively unknown. Again you trust that your system would land you a real good player. And the training and hard work to develop him as such. Josh seems a nice hard working kid. Just relax and trust the process. And maybe soon you’ll hear everybody saying, “Spurs have done it again.” :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::bobo

I think your example of Kawhi is a good one. If not for the patience and really lack of urgency for Kawhi to produce he never would have become what he did. There’s a much stronger argument for slowly developing players vs. throwing them in to sink or swim. Very few if any teams would have been able to develop nephew like he was here.

Even with that said my cap on what I thought Kawhi’s peak would be was somewhere around 16/8/3. He just wasn’t very dynamic and creative offensively.

Right now today I can’t say that I think Primo is going be much more than a 15-16ppg scorer but I’m not going full retard like some here are with already calling him a bust. Primo has shown some really nice stuff at times and clearly him playing point is forcing him to really emphasize handles and ball control. A very weak area for him. If he develops the weakest part of his game his ceiling goes up for sure.

[rankingtear]

Curry had the ball in his hands at all times and was the top dog. Primo was 3rd option and sat in the corner at Bama.

Curry was in highschool at Primo age in Bama.

[Mr. Body]

To me Primo is clearly playing and learning a very specific role. I like what I'm seeing and am patient with him. No worries.

[KobesAchilles]

I love when people say "i could see it immediately that parker was a star" while ignoring the gravity of Duncan in his prime. Yeah, most guards will succeed. also why compare a fast guard without shooting to primo? why set arbitrary deadlines about players the spurs seem to like? maybe the spurs are blind dead dumb about primo, but if you do think he's a bust, then great news, westy will succeed him and you'll have your mini parker out of control speedster
Except Parker wasn’t out of control with the ball. He averaged like 2 TOs a game. The dude was THAT fast and had good control of the ball. That’s really rare. I mean besides original IT, I don’t think anyone could move as fast as Parker and be in control of the ball at the same time. It’s like Tony could run 100% speed regardless of he was dribbling or not. Not many people can do that

But I just don’t see world class with Primo. I can obviously be wrong but Giannis is 6’10 and can run like a deer and jump like crazy. His starting point athletically was way beyond Primo. Using bigger, stronger, and faster players as comps isn’t a good one.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Primo's lack of aggression is one of my concerns

[duncan2k5]

Primo doesn't have an alpha mentality...he would play 20 minutes a game and only put up 3 shots... That shows he is content being a roleplayer

[duncan2k5]

Primo's lack of aggression is one of my concerns

This

[poopbox]

He doesn't really need to do anything but fit in with tall tony parker tbh

He absolutely does not have even one high level talent that jumps off the page though.

[Mr. Body]

Primo's lack of aggression is one of my concerns

I don't know how many times I have to say this, he's very clearly playing and learning various roles.

[BacktoBasics]

Primo showed some pretty killer aggression in his first summer league. It was one of the things I liked about him considering his reserved role in college. Admittedly I think that’s been neutered a bit but it’s not like it didn’t exist. Tbh he’s buying into the system and I don’t think that’s a negative.

[Atl Spur]

I don't know how many times I have to say this, he's very clearly playing and learning various roles.

Please don’t explain / repeat yourself to these clowns…….. they’re just looking for attention.

[mookie2001]

You see the scouting tape on Primo you're thinking- team weakness, bully him, attack the ball, force into decision etc.

its always Primo

[TekXX]

I would love to see what the Spurs saw when they reached for him. Was it his quickness or burst of speed?

[Atl Spur]

I would love to see what the Spurs saw when they reached for him. Was it his quickness or burst of speed?

Who knows:) Hey, what do you see in him?

[BacktoBasics]

I would love to see what the Spurs saw when they reached for him. Was it his quickness or burst of speed?

Okay fine. Humor us. What should the pick have been. I would have said Moody but he hasn’t out performed. Albeit that’s yet to be seen based on where he’s playing. Sengun? He’s doing okay but he’s not a modern big so there’s a real argument that his long term viability isn’t going to flesh out. Duarte looked good last season and isn’t looking so hot now and he’s only going to be as good as he is now. Much older, like what 4-5 years older.

After that, what? Bones Hyland? Talk about a stretch. Trey Murphy is interesting but still would have been debatable at the draft.

The primo is a stretch argument held so much more weight around the draft than it does now. Literally no one has panned out significantly better.

So if you guys are going to make this argument then actually back it up instead of just verbalizing the claim.

[Atl Spur]

He got his 30 seconds of fame…..

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Murray looks like sh!t early in his career too. Primo has time to raise his game.

[RC_Drunkford]

I get what the Spurs saw in Primo. A very young player with a polished game, who if he works on all his flaws could become complete in every facet of the game. That will take time though. Right now he's by far the worst player in the rotation. I just hope he can show something this season. We've really only seen the good stuff from him in preseason games and the G-League.

[John B]

Primo cannot be compared to Tony at 19. Tony at 19 played with Timmy and DRob. That was like teaching a kid to drive with a Tesla, instead of your daddy’s old chevy.

[duncan2150]

Primo cannot be compared to Tony at 19. Tony at 19 played with Timmy and DRob. That was like teaching a kid to drive with a Tesla, instead of your daddy’s old chevy.

Yes but Tony was way more advanced than Primo, playing in french Pro A and having really good games at 18. There is not need of comparaison between those 2.

Other thant that i don't see Primo as a FP , let the kid grow and see what he could be.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I’m not throwing in the towel on Primo and saying he’ll never amount to anything. Maybe he can be a microwave scorer off the bench one day and serve as an indigent man’s Manu.

My point is that the FO looks at a guy like Primo and says — “We have a potential franchise player.” (According to TimVP)

That is not confidence inspiring when it comes to the rebuild. That’s terrifyingly stupid.

[Dejounte]

I’m not throwing in the towel on Primo and saying he’ll never amount to anything. Maybe he can be a microwave scorer off the bench one day and serve as an indigent man’s Manu.

My point is that the FO looks at a guy like Primo and says — “We have a potential franchise player.” (According to TimVP)

That is not confidence inspiring when it comes to the rebuild. That’s terrifyingly stupid.

I think the lesson here is to not believe everything you read or hear.

timvp’s source (if legit) could have taken someone out of context and they could have meant it in a different way, such as “Primo could be a potential franchise player… IF he puts a lot of work in, improves his IQ, yadda yadda yadda”. Or it could have been some random dude speculating what the actual FO thinks. There are numerous ways information like this could have easily been misinterpreted. It’s why it’s likely better to watch news on CSPAN as opposed to Fox News or CNN. They’re all shit but there’s usually one better than the rest.

[CGD]

When we look at year 5 in the league and compare that to who was selected behind him (and thus available to spurs), Im confident the decision to reach on Primo at 11 will be validated.

The guys behind him that have “shown more” so far, in my view, are Shengun, Trey Murphy, Herbert (but who saw that one?!). After the Indy game I’m cool with passing on Duarte, and Trey is just as inconsistent at Primo.

[Dejounte]

When we look at year 5 in the league and compare that to who was selected behind him (and thus available to spurs), Im confident the decision to reach on Primo at 11 will be validated.

The guys behind him that have “shown more” so far, in my view, are Shengun, Trey Murphy, Herbert (but who saw that one?!). After the Indy game I’m cool with passing on Duarte, and Trey is just as inconsistent at Primo.

Even Sengun has been demoted to the bench. Regardless of if he’s playing well off the bench or not, there does not seem to be a path for him on the Rockets to be a starter again with the way they are shaping their roster. So it would seem like his ceiling as a player is capped by the limited opportunity he is going to get as a Rocket. It’s a safe bet to say that for Primo to be better than Sengun, it won’t be a tall mountain to climb.

[rascal]

I liked Moses Moody and would have selected him over Primo. But didn't think Moody was going to be a future all star.

[CGD]

I liked Moses Moody and would have selected him over Primo. But didn't think Moody was going to be a future all star.

He’s on my radar too, but it’s hard to gauge given how he’s used in golden state. Might be another one of those guys that leaves to another situation and shines outside the shadow of the warriors stars.

[CGD]

Even Sengun has been demoted to the bench. Regardless of if he’s playing well off the bench or not, there does not seem to be a path for him on the Rockets to be a starter again with the way they are shaping their roster. So it would seem like his ceiling as a player is capped by the limited opportunity he is going to get as a Rocket. It’s a safe bet to say that for Primo to be better than Sengun, it won’t be a tall mountain to climb.

It feels like shengun is from another time. I was confused at first why spurs didnt go for him, but yesterday game reminded me why. unless you’re getting an Embid type post prospect, it’s better to have more Collins and Deing types that can help stretch the floor, than it is to carry dead weight at the 5

[Dejounte]

It feels like shengun is from another time. I was confused at first why spurs didnt go for him, but yesterday game reminded me why. unless you’re getting an Embid type post prospect, it’s better to have more Collins and Deing types that can help stretch the floor, than it is to carry dead weight at the 5

Tbh I remember all the folks who were insistent that he’d be able to play the four (since they realized he was undersized at the five).

[rankingtear]

I liked Moses Moody and would have selected him over Primo. But didn't think Moody was going to be a future all star.

Sure. But Primo is a much better prospect than Moody now.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

So was Parker but it was obvious he was a star in the making the second he stepped on the court. Which is why the Sonics offered Gary Payton for him after seeing him in two summer league games.

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Sonics-spurn-bid-for-Payton-1060737.php

seattle remembers differently


(lol seattle)

[Chinook]

Primo's been fine so far this season. This thread is weird.

[K...]

Good goalposts here. Pick 12 isn't were you find franchise guys and franchise longshots dont appear until their prime years. Primo was probably best player that year given the teams win later timeline. Also at least wait till game 15 to judge a player. Some guys need play to settle (y'all were going to murder vassell for cold shooting just a few days ago). Chill

[TD 21]

Even Sengun has been demoted to the bench. Regardless of if he’s playing well off the bench or not, there does not seem to be a path for him on the Rockets to be a starter again with the way they are shaping their roster. So it would seem like his ceiling as a player is capped by the limited opportunity he is going to get as a Rocket. It’s a safe bet to say that for Primo to be better than Sengun, it won’t be a tall mountain to climb.

? They're starting fringe player Fernando (now Garuba, since he's injured) and playing him spot minutes, so yeah, as of right now there's a clear path to Sengun starting.

I don't have a great feel for Primo, but a bunch of the names being mentioned that were selected after him were always higher floor but given where the Spurs are at in their cycle, I doubt the ceiling of any will make them regretful.

[Dejounte]

? They're starting fringe player Fernando (now Garuba, since he's injured) and playing him spot minutes, so yeah, as of right now there's a clear path to Sengun starting.

I don't have a great feel for Primo, but a bunch of the names being mentioned that were selected after him were always higher floor but given where the Spurs are at in their cycle, I doubt the ceiling of any will make them regretful.

Sequence of events matter here. Sengun was the starter in preseason and he lost that job to Fernando. Meaning the choice was decisive and a sign that he won’t easily earn it back. Also it’s telling what the Rockets feel about his fit and talent level, given the coach was singing his praises in preseason and has since toned it down when expectations weren’t being met.

[TD 21]

Sequence of events matter here. Sengun was the starter in preseason and he lost that job to Fernando. Meaning the choice was decisive and a sign that he won’t easily earn it back. Also it’s telling what the Rockets feel about his fit and talent level.

I know, but the point stands: When there isn't anything of consequence in front of you, there's a clear path to regaining your position.

It could easily be as simple as giving him a kick in the behind so that he doesn't presume the spot is his and lag in the areas he's already poor in.

[The Truth #6]

I think the FO moved the goalposts, so to speak, when they allegedly said their #12 pick, Primo, is a franchise player, or something to that effect. Obviously, this is been talked to death. I don’t see much to get excited about with him right now, but Pop or someone else seems to, so if that’s true then I will keep my hope alive a little longer till at least next season.

[Chomag]

Once again I don't have any issues with Primo I still feel that he will get better overtime, my criticism comes from where we picked him. He was a late second rounder ,most sources have even said as much.

However please no on the PG experiment , there is nothing in his skill sets and body type that fits this roll at a NBA level.

[BacktoBasics]

Once again I don't have any issues with Primo I still feel that he will get better overtime, my criticism comes from where we picked him. He was a late second rounder ,most sources have even said as much.

However please no on the PG experiment , there is nothing in his skill sets and body type that fits this roll at a NBA level.

You guys don’t like where he was picked but at this point no one drafted after him has an unquestionably higher upside. Certainly not higher productivity.

I would have liked Moody but at this point it’s a coin toss and Primo has been far more interesting.

[vy65]

Meanwhile, Sengun is averaging 15 and 10 in his first three games this season ...

[BacktoBasics]

Meanwhile, Sengun is averaging 15 and 10 in his first three games this season ...

Where does a vintage big fit on a winning team in todays league? It’s one thing to moderately fill a stat sheet coming off the bench of a shit team and quite another for that game to translate to real productivity on a winning team.

[vy65]

Where does a vintage big fit on a winning team in todays league? It’s one thing to moderately fill a stat sheet coming off the bench of a shit team and quite another for that game to translate to real productivity on a winning team.

He fits on a team that should unload Jakob Poetle

[BacktoBasics]

He fits on a team that should unload Jakob Poetle

I don’t think that’s a strong argument at all. Nothing about our teams offense revolves around traditional post play or slow half court ball.

He’s not a game changing big that you’d build your offense around either.

[vy65]

I don’t think that’s a strong argument at all. Nothing about our teams offense revolves around traditional post play or slow half court ball.

He’s not a game changing big that you’d build your offense around either.

Whether you think it’s a smart argument is irrelevant. Primo was and always will be a horrible choice at 12. There were better players from a team and asset perspective.

Sengun isn’t a franchise player. Neither is Primo. It’s ok to recognize the FO fucked up the #12 pick.

[K...]

Whether you think it’s a smart argument is irrelevant. Primo was and always will be a horrible choice at 12. There were better players from a team and asset perspective.

Sengun isn’t a franchise player. Neither is Primo. It’s ok to recognize the FO fucked up the #12 pick.

I'm glad you find happiness in picking low ceiling players. The draft is a risk. you are committing to the position that primo won't be an NBA player in his prime 4-6 years from now. Most picks outside the core top 4 lottery are speculative or role players. Given how badly the spurs suck they should pick guys like samanic and primo who look like potentially unicorn type players. Primo might be too stupid to reach his potential or too slow to be elite. jury is out but his body isn't finished and his floor is pretty good should he commit to being a 3 and D guy.

[objective]

Primo if was drafted like Parker in 2001 would be doing exactly what he's doing now, being a slower, taller Reggie Geary.

Parker was a one man fast break on a slow Spurs team, getting to the rim. Primo is a one man dribble factory who can't be counted on to get to the nail. Parker got after it, he had no problem pulling from 3 until they worked on his shot and took that away from his role and got his efficiency up.

First 3 games off bench for 2nd year Primo, 68 minutes: 1-8 3pt fga. Parker first 3 games off bench as rookie: 53 minutes, 5-9 3pt fga in a non 3 point era. Spurs probably shoot 40% more 3s a game now and Parker still shot and made more than Primo.

The hope for Primo is that he starts taking and making off the dribble threes. Spot up is fine but that's a dime a dozen in the NBA. He probably can't help how slow he is but he could still be a more effective player.

[Atl Spur]

Lol��

[objective]

Sengun is doing fine. And still capable of being better with his shooting and really needs to cut down the turnovers, if he doesn't he'll have issues. 23 PER, 15 and 10. Diaw spent most of his Spurs time off the bench playing a role, and Sengun has a good chance to do the same thing. Boris wasn't an everyday starter until he was 23. Playing a role off the bench is Sengun being put into a position to succeed and that's fine.

[GAustex]

The kid goes not positively influence the game in any facet. A lotto pick should do something, at least one thing.

[objective]

Also, 2001 Parker still had to deal with hand checking. Primo has problems enough and that's without hand checking.

[BacktoBasics]

Whether you think it’s a smart argument is irrelevant. Primo was and always will be a horrible choice at 12. There were better players from a team and asset perspective.

Sengun isn’t a franchise player. Neither is Primo. It’s ok to recognize the FO fucked up the #12 pick.
It relevant because you can’t effectively make your case.

[offset formation]

Meanwhile, Sengun is averaging 15 and 10 in his first three games this season ...

Which is the point for most of the Sengun draft supporters here as I see it. We should have taken Sengun because he was a position of need at the 4, flexing to a small ball 5.

I know what timvp has said that others were potentially eyeing him in the late teens or early 20s but Pop clearly saw him as a potential nephew draft steal and the early results just don't bear out that assessment. He could have been gotten easily by trading back up into the late first round or trading a fairly average asset to whatever team drafted him if that's what PATFO really thought about him.

So it's not really about Primo to me and never has been. Kid should have been taken later and I'm sad for him he was a lotto pick. He would have likely been better off being lower. As it is, folks like Ryen Russillo and Bill Simmons and others have raked the Spurs over the coals for that pick. Also, PATFO is making the situation worse now by forcing him to play a position he is not equipped to play.

[rankingtear]

Sengun can barely cross halfcourt on HOU pace. People are just spouting stats.

[Dejounte]

Sengun can barely cross halfcourt on HOU pace. People are just spouting stats.
Yeah, you can’t be right about Primo’s true position and then get Sengun’s position completely wrong. Come on, offset. Virtually no Rockets fan see him as being able to play as a PF right now.

[offset formation]

Yeah, you can’t be right about Primo’s true position and then get Sengun’s position completely wrong. Come on, offset. Virtually no Rockets fan see him as a PF right now.

Who says Rocket fans should influence where he'd play with the Spurs? Spurs offense is not the Rockets offense.

Pop doesn't have the athletic roster Houston does. He would undoubtedly play center in small ball lineups but playing a PF role aside from that like a Bobo did is precisely where he'd fit on our roster.

[Dejounte]

Who says Rocket fans should influence where he'd play with the Spurs? Spurs offense is not the Rockets offense.

Pop doesn't have the athletic roster Houston does. He would undoubtedly play center in small ball lineups but playing a PF role aside from that like a Bobo did is precisely where he'd fit on our roster.

I mean, we Spurs fans can’t claim to know what Pop will do either. Just because there’s somewhat similar traits Sengun share with Bobo doesn’t mean he’s remotely as quick + extremely doubtful Pop has the same strategy now as he had ten years ago. Defense is much different now.

https://twitter.com/fyrebear/status/1583835362656661504?s=

He’s not quick enough, period. He’s an undersized center.

[objective]

An undersized center who produces off the bench or a slow guard who doesn't produce off the bench?

Of all the ways to examine the Primo pick and place it in context positively, I don't think bashing Sengun is the win people seem to think it is.

If he produces as a role player he produces. I remember people on this forum bashing Scola as a slow undersized big who couldn't handle NBA athletes and wouldn't somehow be able to play next to Duncan (lol!). But in real life had he joined the team in 05 or 06 they probably beat Dallas in 06 despite his flaws, provided Pop deemed him over himself. Because in the playoffs, in a 7 game series that ends in an OT game 7, having more quality minutes from bench players matters. And Scola didn't even come over until his age 27 season when he had a fully mature game. No one saw any of his growing pains.

[rankingtear]

Primo is a better prospect than Sengun. People just evaluate players like they are in a fantasy league with no position limit. Wright is building a future proof team, no need for a player like him. Don't even know why HOU would draft him if this is the team they are building.

[Dejounte]

Not bashing Sengun to pump up Primo. If we’re setting realistic expectations for Primo, we should set it for Sengun, too. Stating that his natural position is PF in today’s NBA is not realistic.

[Atl Spur]

An exercise in futility. Time will tell….

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Primo is a better prospect than Sengun. People just evaluate players like they are in a fantasy league with no position limit. Wright is building a future proof team, no need for a player like him. Don't even know why HOU would draft him if this is the team they are building.


Ok, but why? I have been generally supportive of all of the Spurs recent draft picks because I could understand the potential value of the player. Lonnie Walker had long arms and otherworldly athleticism (did not want him to leave), Luka Samanic had unicorn skills as a passer, ball handler, shooter, and post player (I still think he’ll be a good NBA player eventually), Keldon Johnson looked good right away as a do-it-all 3, and Vassell was supposed to be a next level defensive player. I don’t love the Sochan pick, but at least I get what his ceiling could be.


But what the hell does Primo do well? Outside of his draft status, what is there to be excited about? There isn’t even much from his one year in college that points toward who he could be in the future. And this is the guy Brian Wright thinks is a franchise player in the making?

There question becomes, what in the actual fuck are they looking for?

[Atl Spur]

Ok, but why? I have been generally supportive of all of the Spurs recent draft picks because I could understand the potential value of the player. Lonnie Walker had long arms and otherworldly athleticism (did not want him to leave), Luka Samanic had unicorn skills as a passer, ball handler, shooter, and post player (I still think he’ll be a good NBA player eventually), Keldon Johnson looked good right away as a do-it-all 3, and Vassell was supposed to be a next level defensive player. I don’t love the Sochan pick, but at least I get what his ceiling could be.
If you can’t see anything this kid does well, you may need to do less bitching and more watching. J/S

But what the hell does Primo do well? Outside of his draft status, what is there to be excited about? There isn’t even much from his one year in college that points toward who he could be in the future. And this is the guy Brian Wright thinks is a franchise player in the making?

There question becomes, what in the actual fuck are they looking for?

[K...]

Ok, but why? I have been generally supportive of all of the Spurs recent draft picks because I could understand the potential value of the player. Lonnie Walker had long arms and otherworldly athleticism (did not want him to leave), Luka Samanic had unicorn skills as a passer, ball handler, shooter, and post player (I still think he’ll be a good NBA player eventually), Keldon Johnson looked good right away as a do-it-all 3, and Vassell was supposed to be a next level defensive player. I don’t love the Sochan pick, but at least I get what his ceiling could be.


But what the hell does Primo do well? Outside of his draft status, what is there to be excited about? There isn’t even much from his one year in college that points toward who he could be in the future. And this is the guy Brian Wright thinks is a franchise player in the making?

There question becomes, what in the actual fuck are they looking for?

Who cares? There's no opportunity cost. Let primo play. For fucks sake, last year was people pitching “play primo, put him in a corner to shoot 3s“ now people want to throw primo is the gas chamber. He can play 20 or 40minutes a game and not one thing changes.

Players take longer to train because they dont learn skills and shit. Learn to love slow growth and root for players. No matter how much you bitch Brian wrights smarter than you.

[John B]

Primo if was drafted like Parker in 2001 would be doing exactly what he's doing now, being a slower, taller Reggie Geary.

Parker was a one man fast break on a slow Spurs team, getting to the rim. Primo is a one man dribble factory who can't be counted on to get to the nail. Parker got after it, he had no problem pulling from 3 until they worked on his shot and took that away from his role and got his efficiency up.

First 3 games off bench for 2nd year Primo, 68 minutes: 1-8 3pt fga. Parker first 3 games off bench as rookie: 53 minutes, 5-9 3pt fga in a non 3 point era. Spurs probably shoot 40% more 3s a game now and Parker still shot and made more than Primo.

The hope for Primo is that he starts taking and making off the dribble threes. Spot up is fine but that's a dime a dozen in the NBA. He probably can't help how slow he is but he could still be a more effective player.


I will argue that shooting the 3 with DRob and Timmy in the lineup gets you uncontested open 3’s. While Primo playing motion offense with the 2nd unit would be more contested. I agree that Tony was much polished than Primo at 19, mainly because of his international games. But we shouldn’t really compare Primo with Tony at 19. Tony was playing with two HOFer and a championship team. As Tony himself mentioned, most of his time he was just passing to those guys. Primo has not that luxury. Granted he could be getting better fg% shooting C&S. But this is rebuilding season, and I think Pop wants him to learn to facilitate, ala Demar. They can never have too many failitators. So those people, stop complaining Primo should not play PG. That’s a skill that if he gets better just makes Spurs better. It’s a rebuilding season.

[itzsoweezee]

I believe in Primo. I think he’ll be good. But he also was selected way too early in the draft. Just like Samanic, the Spurs drafted him much higher than he was worth. Just another of the many examples of terrible decision making by the front office in the post-Kawhi era.

[John B]

I believe in Primo. I think he’ll be good. But he also was selected way too early in the draft. Just like Samanic, the Spurs drafted him much higher than he was worth. Just another of the many examples of terrible decision making by the front office in the post-Kawhi era.

In a small market like the Spurs, the best chance of getting a franchise player is by draft. After the 1st 3 picks, it’s more of a big swing and hoping you hit the ball. Spurs was not looking to draft another role player. They took a big swing and people should understand that. It’s a big risk with big rewards. Kawhi. Spurs needed to develop another soon-to-be franchise to replace Timmy. They traded Pop’s “favorite” to take a shot at drafting a hopefully great defensive player, and happened to be a solid all-around also. That was a big swing that connected. Primo was too early, but Spurs were not swinging for a 12th pick role player. That was a big swing for hopefully a great one. It’s a hit and miss game that unfortunately the Spurs needed to play, unless you’re the Lakers or Golden State where you can expect big talent going to start knocking, then they don’t need to take that risk and just draft the best available. Different situations. During the championship years, Spurs didn’t have to gamble, obviously because they had the key figures in placed. Not this tine. Spurs are swinging if not a high pick. Hopefully we get a top pick next draft, then the gamble is less

[exstatic]

Sengun is doing fine. And still capable of being better with his shooting and really needs to cut down the turnovers, if he doesn't he'll have issues. 23 PER, 15 and 10. Diaw spent most of his Spurs time off the bench playing a role, and Sengun has a good chance to do the same thing. Boris wasn't an everyday starter until he was 23. Playing a role off the bench is Sengun being put into a position to succeed and that's fine.

Almost exactly Poeltls numbers, except Jak can defend.

[Atl Spur]

Are we really going to keep discussing this dudes trajectory over and over? Give him a few years to see what we have…… not a big deal��. The #12 pick is like playing with house money ( do your research ).

[itzsoweezee]

In a small market like the Spurs, the best chance of getting a franchise player is by draft. After the 1st 3 picks, it’s more of a big swing and hoping you hit the ball. Spurs was not looking to draft another role player. They took a big swing and people should understand that. It’s a big risk with big rewards. Kawhi. Spurs needed to develop another soon-to-be franchise to replace Timmy. They traded Pop’s “favorite” to take a shot at drafting a hopefully great defensive player, and happened to be a solid all-around also. That was a big swing that connected. Primo was too early, but Spurs were not swinging for a 12th pick role player. That was a big swing for hopefully a great one. It’s a hit and miss game that unfortunately the Spurs needed to play, unless you’re the Lakers or Golden State where you can expect big talent going to start knocking, then they don’t need to take that risk and just draft the best available. Different situations. During the championship years, Spurs didn’t have to gamble, obviously because they had the key figures in placed. Not this tine. Spurs are swinging if not a high pick. Hopefully we get a top pick next draft, then the gamble is less

Gambling is fine. If you want to gamble, do it intelligently. Trade down and pick up an asset. Don’t spend a lottery pick on a guy who’sa late first round pick, at best.

Smart teams accumulate assets that they can turn into good players. That’s especially important for small market teams. Making wild guesses on the future ability of an 18 year old who spent one year in college coming off the bench with no out-of-this world talent or skill is not smart, it’s irresponsible. The Samanich pick was just as bad, if not worse. Not only did they use a pick that was way too high, he’s not even an asset anymore. Just incredibly wasteful.

[Brazil]

Primo and franchise player on the same sentence... ? really ? :lmao

[exstatic]

Who says Rocket fans should influence where he'd play with the Spurs? Spurs offense is not the Rockets offense.

Pop doesn't have the athletic roster Houston does. He would undoubtedly play center in small ball lineups but playing a PF role aside from that like a Bobo did is precisely where he'd fit on our roster.

He rarely showed it, but Bobo was a supreme athlete. The story about the cappuccino and flip flops comes to mind. He’s shorter, but cleared more of the vert test slats than Amare. Sengün isn’t even close to that level.

[John B]

He rarely showed it, but Bobo was a supreme athlete. The story about the cappuccino and flip flops comes to mind. He’s shorter, but cleared more of the vert test slats than Amare. Sengün isn’t even close to that level.

I like Sengun. But I doubt he’s going to be anything more than a role player. And yeah that Bobo cappuccino was like a barber shop story. I believe it though :lol

[exstatic]

I like Sengun. But I doubt he’s going to be anything more than a role player. And yeah that Bobo cappuccino was like a barber shop story. I believe it though :lol

Go back and watch the Kawhi play at the end of OKC game 6 in 2014. Bobo followed the play, and slapped the back board on both sides of the rim, and he had to duck under to do it. That was old, sorta fat Bobo, too.

[rankingtear]

Ok, but why? I have been generally supportive of all of the Spurs recent draft picks because I could understand the potential value of the player. Lonnie Walker had long arms and otherworldly athleticism (did not want him to leave), Luka Samanic had unicorn skills as a passer, ball handler, shooter, and post player (I still think he’ll be a good NBA player eventually), Keldon Johnson looked good right away as a do-it-all 3, and Vassell was supposed to be a next level defensive player. I don’t love the Sochan pick, but at least I get what his ceiling could be.


But what the hell does Primo do well? Outside of his draft status, what is there to be excited about? There isn’t even much from his one year in college that points toward who he could be in the future. And this is the guy Brian Wright thinks is a franchise player in the making?

There question becomes, what in the actual fuck are they looking for?

That pull up is elite. They can make 20 point scorers out of raw offense guys with elite pull up ability. Primo's goes all the way past the 3 point line. Plus the intangibles to get there.

[objective]

Despite how unimpressed I am by Primo as a supposed franchise player or even as a playoff rotation contributor, I think he should be starting over Jones.

If Primo is a legit shooter, and that's an if, then it should help the starters. And probably help him as he seems so reluctant to look for his own 3 with the pressure of running things for a second unit. Maybe with the starters full time some of that pressure will be off and he can be more selfish. Jones is a hustle guy who will do his thing whether he's starting or not.

The more reps they get Primo then the faster they can determine if and how he should be a part of the future.

[Atl Spur]

Despite how unimpressed I am by Primo as a supposed franchise player or even as a playoff rotation contributor, I think he should be starting over Jones.

If Primo is a legit shooter, and that's an if, then it should help the starters. And probably help him as he seems so reluctant to look for his own 3 with the pressure of running things for a second unit. Maybe with the starters full time some of that pressure will be off and he can be more selfish. Jones is a hustle guy who will do his thing whether he's starting or not.

The more reps they get Primo then the faster they can determine if and how he should be a part of the future.

They already know……you don’t.

[TD 21]

I realize he's still a teenager and obviously small sample size but once again, his individual advanced stats indicate a replacement player at best.

He's now cleared 1000 career minutes and has a 48.5% TS% (league average is 55%) with a turnover % 5.5 higher than his assist % (2 to 1 assist/turnover is considered good).

On the plus side, the assist (granted, more on ball reps) and free throw rate have spiked.

[spurraider21]

:lmao

1586136947327586310

[Dejounte]

THAT IS NUTS. THEY NEVER DO SOMETHING THAT EARLY. What the hell did he do? Curse out Pop?