Trade Poeltl and J-Rich already

[DAF86]

For fuck's sake.

[Dejounte]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300934&p=10819516#post10819516

[Atl Spur]

No Devin haters out trick or treating? I thought not….. these dudes are way to emotional��

[Mr. Body]

Not while the Spurs still lead their division.

[John B]

Showcasing for those precious FRP’s. To add to that GH Trade return, plus start of Derrick White-trade dividends

[Harry Callahan]

Devin was totally off on Wednesday night, but thankfully has figured some stuff out.

Will the Spurs make a run at the playoffs? Probably not, but at least some guys are improving with a bigger role.

[Atl Spur]

Devin was totally off on Wednesday night, but thankfully has figured some stuff out.

Will the Spurs make a run at the playoffs? Probably not, but at least some guys are improving with a bigger role.

Please say this louder!

[RC_Drunkford]

I hope we're getting some good offers for these guys. McDermott too.

[CGD]

It’s early. Have to wait about 15-20 games or so for teams to start panicking, though, if I’m Philly im getting anxious sooner than that if this keeps up.

I’m keeping Chicago, Philly, Lakers, and Suns in my sights.

[Dejounte]

Trading the vets has always been presumptive from the beginning. They traded one starter and we all expect the rest of the roster to be blown up? There’s value in having vets as much as fans want to deny it or not. And that’s not speaking to if they deserve ingame minutes, but in their locker room presence. It’s foolishness to think that if they do get traded that we won’t get any vets back. An organization that has always had older players teach and lead by example will continue to have those kind of players whether they’re tanking or not.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

maybe let's trade our good vets, get back worse vets plus picks

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The future won't be decided by getting one or two more late FRPs, the important picks going forward are the Spurs own.

Simply trading every vet for anything isn't going to be that important, it's a viable strategy for sure but ultimately the most important thing is player development and for that the young guys need structure around them and to be put in good positions. Constant blowout losses Sixers style won't help, it'd be a year lost for the young guys. This is why some good vets have value to the team even if they don't bring back some late pick.

[Thomas82]

I'm with it!!

[Chinook]

The Spurs weren't tanking. They were pruning. That they are basically the same level of team despite losing three All-Stars speaks tremendously to the growth of their players. That people are so upset about the young guys playing well on a team with loads of picks and cap space is annoying. I'm down with the Spurs drafting a star if they have the opportunity, but the point of being bad is supposed to be get good young players, and they seem to have those while still having plenty of prospects to work on. I get the idea that the Spurs lack a superstar but a) They may not get a top-2 pick regardless of how bad they are b) That player (especially Wemby) might not stay healthy or develop and c) Even if those things happen, that player may not want to stay with the Spurs by the time they're good enough to take advantage. Also d) By the time that player develops, the core folks want to be around for them may have moved on. If you have the opportunity, take it. But I would like to see them have multiple options open.

For folks who fall back on the "treadmill" retort: Life is a treadmill. We're born, live and die, no matter what we accomplish. If you don't think that, it's because you've assigned meaning to your existence. You can do the same thing to your sports entertainment. It's only championship or bust if you disregard the majority of the season and don't particularly care about watching good basketball. Pissing that away chasing after the chance of delayed gratification sucks. For some folks, this will be the last season they ever see. They'll never know if the Spurs find their star or turn things around. I can't ride with the idea of purposefully not enjoying entertaining things in hopes you'll be more entertained later. Saving up to buy a house? Sure. Dieting to get your health back in order? Understandable. Being mad that your team won a quality game? Nope.

[DAF86]

Trading the vets has always been presumptive from the beginning. They traded one starter and we all expect the rest of the roster to be blown up? There’s value in having vets as much as fans want to deny it or not. And that’s not speaking to if they deserve ingame minutes, but in their locker room presence. It’s foolishness to think that if they do get traded that we won’t get any vets back. An organization that has always had older players teach and lead by example will continue to have those kind of players whether they’re tanking or not.

And who's talking about having or not having vets? I don't care if we bring in vets, as long as they aren't as good as the ones we have. Poeltl is a top center in the league, him alone can keep you from being a bottom 3 team in the league, which is we should be aiming for.

[DAF86]

The future won't be decided by getting one or two more late FRPs, the important picks going forward are the Spurs own.

Simply trading every vet for anything isn't going to be that important, it's a viable strategy for sure but ultimately the most important thing is player development and for that the young guys need structure around them and to be put in good positions. Constant blowout losses Sixers style won't help, it'd be a year lost for the young guys. This is why some good vets have value to the team even if they don't bring back some late pick.

That's exactly why we should be trading away our good vets. This upcoming draft have two of the most promising prospects since Lebron. If there's a year to tank, it is this one and Poeltl and J-Rich might prevent us from doing that.

[Chomag]

Spurs really should be looking for a multi player trade if possible, If not single player trades would work . Yak, Jrich, McDermott, and even possible Tre to a lesser extent. These guys do not fit the window and They really need to start chosing a plan and what direction they want to go in and not just try things out hoping something sticks or else we are not going anywhere up or down.

[TD 21]

The future won't be decided by getting one or two more late FRPs, the important picks going forward are the Spurs own.

You don't know that. The next centerpiece could come from anywhere which is why the more bites at the apple the better.


The Spurs weren't tanking. They were pruning. That they are basically the same level of team despite losing three All-Stars speaks tremendously to the growth of their players. That people are so upset about the young guys playing well on a team with loads of picks and cap space is annoying. I'm down with the Spurs drafting a star if they have the opportunity, but the point of being bad is supposed to be get good young players, and they seem to have those while still having plenty of prospects to work on. I get the idea that the Spurs lack a superstar but a) They may not get a top-2 pick regardless of how bad they are b) That player (especially Wemby) might not stay healthy or develop and c) Even if those things happen, that player may not want to stay with the Spurs by the time they're good enough to take advantage. Also d) By the time that player develops, the core folks want to be around for them may have moved on. If you have the opportunity, take it. But I would like to see them have multiple options open.

You just like to be contrarian (though unintentional, I often end up being the same), convolute and reverse engineer things.

When you haven't had a centerpiece in a half decade, whether you like it or not, the point of being bad is simple: to get as good of odds as possible to get that player.

Not to get "good, young players", which no one should doubt there or any other team's ability to do, especially with talent at an all-time high.

[DAF86]

The Spurs have remained reasonably competitive for years now. This is not a Sacramento Kings situation where we have established a losing cutlure for years. It just has to be this one. Tank just this year to get a 50/50 chance at getting one of the 2 generational talents availabe and you can begin next season planning to win again.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's exactly why we should be trading away our good vets. This upcoming draft have two of the most promising prospects since Lebron. If there's a year to tank, it is this one and Poeltl and J-Rich might prevent us from doing that.

You're not wrong, but I don't think Poeltl and JRich are the difference between being bottom 3 and say a play-in team. If there are such players on the roster they're Keldon and Vassell. The vets help the team being somewhat competitive and have a structure that would allow the younger guys to have the ball and develop.

[Chomag]

It would be funny if we missed being on the bottom 3 by a game or 2. Wait...no it wouldn't

I just don't think some are grasping at how competitive the tanking scene is going to be this season. It's going to be just as competitive as trying to compete for a championship as I'm seeing it. There are already teams gunning for those spots and due to injuries more teams might join the tank athon.

[DAF86]

You're not wrong, but I don't think Poeltl and JRich are the difference between being bottom 3 and say a play-in team. If there are such players on the roster they're Keldon and Vassell. The vets help the team being somewhat competitive and have a structure that would allow the younger guys to have the ball and develop.

Trade Poeltl, JRich and McDermott and repleace them with Barlow, Branham and Wesley and all these meaningless wins turn into L's. It is the difference between the 10th seed and a top 3 draft pick.

[Splits]

I forgot how delicious DAF's tears are every season, no matter what.

Team winning: :cry we should be tanking :cry

Team losing: :cry wtf is wrong with this roster and Pop :cry

:lmao

[BacktoBasics]

Trade Poeltl, JRich and McDermott and repleace them with Barlow, Branham and Wesley and all these meaningless wins turn into L's. It is the difference between the 10th seed and a top 3 draft pick.

They want the L’s but as soon as that happens we’ll have to constantly be hearing how Bran and Wes are busts and the FO can’t draft.

That’ll be far more annoying than these threads about wanting to trade our vets.

[Chinook]

You just like to be contrarian (though unintentional, I often end up being the same), convolute and reverse engineer things.

No. I don't just like to be a contrarian. My stance on what the Spurs should do hasn't changed. I don't want the Spurs to tank. I never have outside of a "stealth tank" scenario a few years ago where the Spurs had a decent core but could've leaned into injuries to get a lotto pick to grab a guy or trade to go with Aldridge, DeRozan and Gay.

As far as what I mean by "pruning", I'm talking about the team wanting to build the team around a certain kind of player and style and wanting that to grow. They didn't trade Murray strictly to be bad, just like they didn't let DeRozan walk to be bad, just like they didn't bench Aldridge in 2020 to be bad. I think them trading White was hasty, but them trading Murray was something you and I had believed needed to happen for a while now. Whatever sources timvp has were sure Poeltl was going to be traded no matter what and that the team was trying to go into a free fall. Poeltl on the other hand said the team told him they had no intention to trade him. It's stuff like that that gave people the impression the Spurs were tanking and are just failing at it. The reality seems more that they're trying to develop guys without really caring if they win or not. Those are different things. I wouldn't sweat that difference, but one is causing stress to some fans on here.


When you haven't had a centerpiece in a half decade, whether you like it or not, the point of being bad is simple: to get as good of odds as possible to get that player.

Not to get "good, young players", which no one should doubt there or any other team's ability to do, especially with talent at an all-time high.

No. The hope of being bad is to draft a center piece. The point is to draft good young players. Good players matter. They're the support structure to teams. They are trade capital. They're recruitment facilitators. I'm not even going to get into how stars are found all over the draft or how flattened lottery odds make winning some games not a big deal. We've already been over all that.

I think you and some other fans have a relatively specific idea of how a team needs to be built. That's a valid idea, but I don't think the Spurs agree with that. A lot of folks are annoyed because they believed or maybe even still believe PATFO has "finally" decided to try things their way and are coming to realization that, nope, the Spurs are still doing what they did last year. They're just further along in the process.

[BackHome]

You're not wrong, but I don't think Poeltl and JRich are the difference between being bottom 3 and say a play-in team. If there are such players on the roster they're Keldon and Vassell. The vets help the team being somewhat competitive and have a structure that would allow the younger guys to have the ball and develop.

Have to disagree I think without Poodle this team is definitely the top 3 worse in the NBA - If the Spurs are not going to sign him to a new contract and at this point they know what he wants they need to get something from him. If we let him walk for nothing that is going to really hurt us in our rebuild process so hoping we can get a trade done sooner rather then latter

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Have to disagree I think without Poodle this team is definitely the top 3 worse in the NBA - If the Spurs are not going to sign him to a new contract and at this point they know what he wants they need to get something from him. If we let him walk for nothing that is going to really hurt us in our rebuild process so hoping we can get a trade done sooner rather then latter

If he wants more than the max extension they can offer (current salary +120%), then there's nothing they can do about his contract until the summer.

You're right that he's more important to this team than I originally implied because his backups are way worse.

[K...]

there should be a legitimate discussion about whether victor is worth more than the ineffable quality of being a winning team. We will lose pop, our last link to the past. I don't think many spurs fans realize how long it took to build the duncan era. It wasn't just a fluky tank. it was several unrepeatable events. We are much more likely to find a repeat of the Pre duncan era with Robinson being good but not enough. Many teams can't convert their "generational talent" because they don't have team building luck or flexibility. There have been many more teams getting a chance by building slowly and developing and getting lucky (raptors, warriors, milwaukee) or overleveraging (lakers, and they still got lucky with the short season). The spurs are open to both slow growth and overrisking.

This season is a real win win, either real growth from the guys and a weak draft return, or a better draft pick. You can't look to the past to describe the present

[DAF86]

I forgot how delicious DAF's tears are every season, no matter what.

Team winning: :cry we should be tanking :cry

Team losing: :cry wtf is wrong with this roster and Pop :cry

:lmao

The fuck? This is the first season I'm advocating for the tank. Wouldn't even be asking for it if it wasn't for the Murray trade.

The way you describe to enjoy my tears I would have guessed you'd knew more about my posting history. :lol

[TD 21]

Whatever sources timvp has were sure Poeltl was going to be traded no matter what and that the team was trying to go into a free fall. Poeltl on the other hand said the team told him they had no intention to trade him. It's stuff like that that gave people the impression the Spurs were tanking and are just failing at it. The reality seems more that they're trying to develop guys without really caring if they win or not. Those are different things. I wouldn't sweat that difference, but one is causing stress to some fans on here.

I think you and some other fans have a relatively specific idea of how a team needs to be built. That's a valid idea, but I don't think the Spurs agree with that. A lot of folks are annoyed because they believed or maybe even still believe PATFO has "finally" decided to try things their way and are coming to realization that, nope, the Spurs are still doing what they did last year. They're just further along in the process.

I still suspect Poeltl (and Richardson) will be traded no matter what. "No intention" is semantics and besides, what are they and especially him going to say (at least publicly)?

They may be technically different, but with a team this bad, let's just say the line is blurry.

Pop probably doesn't agree with that, but I think the Spurs as a whole do, and it appears they're winning out more often. I still can't imagine he's going to engage in in game tanking shenanigans though.

[baseline bum]

there should be a legitimate discussion about whether victor is worth more than the ineffable quality of being a winning team.

That's not the choice here. The choice is between tanking and being a 35 win team. Either way you're miles from contention, but you're closer with the tanking team since you'll get the chance to draft an elite talent vs picking in the late lottery.

[Atl Spur]

Don’t worry people, we have plenty of games left to tank��

[Splits]

The fuck? This is the first season I'm advocating for the tank. Wouldn't even be asking for it if it wasn't for the Murray trade.

The way you describe to enjoy my tears I would have guessed you'd knew more about my posting history. :lol

Dude, you are one of the most consistently emo posters on this board for over a decade. A constant source for mocking hilarity for all who visit. Spin it however you want, but those of us in the gallery will continue to laugh at your ridiculous and shitty takes

[Chomag]

Don’t worry people, we have plenty of games left to tank��

Not if there are 3 more teams that are more serious about tanking then the Spurs.

Every game may count even at the opposite of the spectrum.

[DAF86]

Dude, you are one of the most consistently emo posters on this board for over a decade. A constant source for mocking hilarity for all who visit. Spin it however you want, but those of us in the gallery will continue to laugh at your ridiculous and shitty takes

Hahahaha what? I barely even post here anymore. Don't even bother to browse the site when we lose to avoid all the boring cliff jumping. The fuck are you talking about you? You can't be for real. :lol

[Atl Spur]

Utah says hi! Some of you just don’t get it…..

[exstatic]

The Spurs have remained reasonably competitive for years now. This is not a Sacramento Kings situation where we have established a losing cutlure for years. It just has to be this one. Tank just this year to get a 50/50 chance at getting one of the 2 generational talents availabe and you can begin next season planning to win again.

It’s not 50/50. Where on earth did you get that idea? If we’re the worst fucking team in basketball, it’s 1 in 7.

[DAF86]

It’s not 50/50. Where on earth did you get that idea? If we’re the worst fucking team in basketball, it’s 1 in 7.

Those are the odds for getting number one. If you finish with the worst record you secure a top 3 spot, and I really didn't do the math to see which are the odds of getting a top 2 draft pick, but it mustn't be that far off from 50/50.

[exstatic]

Those are the odds for getting number one. If you finish with the worst record you secure a top 3 spot, and I really didn't do the math to see which are the odds of getting a top 2 draft pick, but it mustn't be that far off from 50/50.

The worst team can pick as low as #5.

[DAF86]

The worst team can pick as low as #5.

Do you know the odds for getting a top 2 pick with the worst record?

[exstatic]

Do you know the odds for getting a top 2 pick with the worst record?

2/7, less than 1/3.

https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

[DAF86]

2/7, less than 1/3.

https://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds

Thanks. Anyways, no matter the odds, after trading away your best player I think the best outcome it would be to maximize the chances of getting the highest pick possible, in a draft projected to have, at least, two generational talents. If there was ever a season to tank, it was this one, tbh.

[Mugen]

The Spurs weren't tanking. They were pruning. That they are basically the same level of team despite losing three All-Stars speaks tremendously to the growth of their players. That people are so upset about the young guys playing well on a team with loads of picks and cap space is annoying. I'm down with the Spurs drafting a star if they have the opportunity, but the point of being bad is supposed to be get good young players, and they seem to have those while still having plenty of prospects to work on. I get the idea that the Spurs lack a superstar but a) They may not get a top-2 pick regardless of how bad they are b) That player (especially Wemby) might not stay healthy or develop and c) Even if those things happen, that player may not want to stay with the Spurs by the time they're good enough to take advantage. Also d) By the time that player develops, the core folks want to be around for them may have moved on. If you have the opportunity, take it. But I would like to see them have multiple options open.

For folks who fall back on the "treadmill" retort: Life is a treadmill. We're born, live and die, no matter what we accomplish. If you don't think that, it's because you've assigned meaning to your existence. You can do the same thing to your sports entertainment. It's only championship or bust if you disregard the majority of the season and don't particularly care about watching good basketball. Pissing that away chasing after the chance of delayed gratification sucks. For some folks, this will be the last season they ever see. They'll never know if the Spurs find their star or turn things around. I can't ride with the idea of purposefully not enjoying entertaining things in hopes you'll be more entertained later. Saving up to buy a house? Sure. Dieting to get your health back in order? Understandable. Being mad that your team won a quality game? Nope.

Equating the meaning of life with a shitty Spurs team lucking into a positive record 3 games into the season might be your magnum opus, Chin. :lol

[John B]

It’s 3 games in the season and I’m liking the synergy. It will be interesting how the PATFO will approach this season. If they see a possible 10th spot, and it’s not impossible with other teams in on the Victor/Scoot lottery, would they still trade Poeltl/JRich? If Poeltl would take south of 20 mil a year? Should they sign him? Honestly I’m for trading all 3 vets if trajectory is 10th place. No reason to lose chance on picking possible generational talents Victor/Scooter and get stuck on a hamster wheel

[rankingtear]

It’s 3 games in the season and I’m liking the synergy. It will be interesting how the PATFO will approach this season. If they see a possible 10th spot, and it’s not impossible with other teams in on the Victor/Scoot lottery, would they still trade Poeltl/JRich? If Poeltl would take south of 20 mil a year? Should they sign him? Honestly I’m for trading all 3 vets if trajectory is 10th place. No reason to lose chance on picking possible generational talents Victor/Scooter and get stuck on a hamster wheel

No matter how good this team is, if two unprotected LAL pick is offered Brian Wright would trade those guys. That is too much value. Role players for 2 unprotected picks is unprecedented.

[Atl Spur]

We draft well so focusing on draft position vs draft development is asinine. You want the best lump of clay to mold but “ BEST” is subjective.

[Chinook]

Equating the meaning of life with a shitty Spurs team lucking into a positive record 3 games into the season might be your magnum opus, Chin. :lol

More like it's weird to watch sports and feel it has to "mean something" when we live our lives making up meaning for things all the time. That some folks watch their team win a game but go "Oh no, but this is hurting their chance to win a title in the next 10 years" is the stretch. Like, who cares? Unless you work for the team, there's basically no benefit from them winning. It's just whether or not you're having fun watching them. Purposefully not enjoying them winning now in hopes your acetic attitude rubs off on the front office and that both make the sacrifices to increase their odds at winning a lottery and then being lucky enough to win that lottery despite still not having great odds is irrational. You being happy about a win isn't going to make the Spurs not tank, and you being miserable about a win isn't going to make them tank. So why not just enjoy the win? Why instead guzzle down the shit sandwich that is tanking mentality when your team isn't even tanking in the first place? It's not even cognitive dissonance. It's weirder than that.

[Chinook]

I still suspect Poeltl (and Richardson) will be traded no matter what. "No intention" is semantics and besides, what are they and especially him going to say (at least publicly)?

Poeltl wasn't picking through his words carefully in order to not give the game away. He basically just said the team didn't given any indication he was going to be moved and were planning on him playing the year with them. This was supposedly during the time where SA was falling all over themselves trying to move him. I doubt they'd've lied to him or that he would've lied for them if they were really as keen to make a move as we had been led to believe. We were supposed to believe the Spurs were absolutely not going to go into the season with Poeltl, whereas Jakob said they weren't planning on moving him. It's parsimonious to believe he was telling the truth rather than assuming a bunch of things happened behind the scenes.


They may be technically different, but with a team this bad, let's just say the line is blurry.

The line isn't that blurry though. Everything we've actually heard from the organization suggests a team that was willing to take a step back and even realistically believe it will take a step back but that wasn't banking on it. Fans who want the team to tank took that and assumed that the team had the goal of losing games to win the lotto. That wasn't a universal interpretation of what was going on at the time. Some of us did not think the Spurs were trying to lose more than they were just getting value out of Murray. I think for the most part, we all just assumed that they'd be bad to the point that they'd lose games even if they were trying their hardest to win. But when it came down to question like which players to cut, whether Jones or Primo would be the starter or if the prospect of Primo or KBD/Roby breaking out would be a bad thing for the team, it was clear that there's a division between folks who WANT the team to lose games and folks who just accepted the team's talent would lose games. That the team is winning games so far is making that line sharper, not blurrier.


Pop probably doesn't agree with that, but I think the Spurs as a whole do, and it appears they're winning out more often. I still can't imagine he's going to engage in in game tanking shenanigans though.

I don't think Brian Wright is trying to lose either. Most GMs don't have luxury of too many losing seasons, and he's had quite a few so far. People also assume Pop would want to make all these win-now moves, but that hasn't been his style in more than a decade. If anything, the team has avoided being aggressive in situations they could've been so. Some accused them of not "picking a lane" because they never really went for it after Leonard despite not completely rebuilding either. You can argue that without Jrue Holidaying Keldon they were never truly serious about tanking. What I see is a team that is willing to wait until the deadline to decide what it wants to do. I don't see them winning enough to where tanking isn't still an option in February, and if they are at that level or lower, I would predict them moving the guys. If they lose enough, that could happen by December 15th. If they're winning though, I could see them looking to be stealth buyers with their cap space and minor picks.

[itzsoweezee]

Poeltl wasn't picking through his words carefully in order to not give the game away. He basically just said the team didn't given any indication he was going to be moved and were planning on him playing the year with them. This was supposedly during the time where SA was falling all over themselves trying to move him. I doubt they'd've lied to him or that he would've lied for them if they were really as keen to make a move as we had been led to believe. We were supposed to believe the Spurs were absolutely not going to go into the season with Poeltl, whereas Jakob said they weren't planning on moving him. It's parsimonious to believe he was telling the truth rather than assuming a bunch of things happened behind the scenes.



The line isn't that blurry though. Everything we've actually heard from the organization suggests a team that was willing to take a step back and even realistically believe it will take a step back but that wasn't banking on it. Fans who want the team to tank took that and assumed that the team had the goal of losing games to win the lotto. That wasn't a universal interpretation of what was going on at the time. Some of us did not think the Spurs were trying to lose more than they were just getting value out of Murray. I think for the most part, we all just assumed that they'd be bad to the point that they'd lose games even if they were trying their hardest to win. But when it came down to question like which players to cut, whether Jones or Primo would be the starter or if the prospect of Primo or KBD/Roby breaking out would be a bad thing for the team, it was clear that there's a division between folks who WANT the team to lose games and folks who just accepted the team's talent would lose games. That the team is winning games so far is making that line sharper, not blurrier.



I don't think Brian Wright is trying to lose either. Most GMs don't have luxury of too many losing seasons, and he's had quite a few so far. People also assume Pop would want to make all these win-now moves, but that hasn't been his style in more than a decade. If anything, the team has avoided being aggressive in situations they could've been so. Some accused them of not "picking a lane" because they never really went for it after Leonard despite not completely rebuilding either. You can argue that without Jrue Holidaying Keldon they were never truly serious about tanking. What I see is a team that is willing to wait until the deadline to decide what it wants to do. I don't see them winning enough to where tanking isn't still an option in February, and if they are at that level or lower, I would predict them moving the guys. If they lose enough, that could happen by December 15th. If they're winning though, I could see them looking to be stealth buyers with their cap space and minor picks.

The spurs indicated they are trying to trade their vets. That’s almost a certainty. We’ll have a clear answer by the trade deadline (then spurs are definitely tanking)

[Chinook]

The spurs indicated they are trying to trade their vets. That’s almost a certainty. We’ll have a clear answer by the trade deadline (then spurs are definitely tanking)

The Spurs didn't indicate they are trying to trade vets. "Sources close to the team" indicated that. Folks are choosing to believe those sources over Poeltl and over the reality of the Spurs not making any moves despite the sources saying they definitely would before the season started.

[The Truth #6]

Spurs are typically cautious and share little with the media. (Pop has played with the media before, specifically with those ridiculous comments that George Hill was his favorite player on the team.)

They’ve traded good players in the last few seasons. They are accepting where they are and Pop now has the record so he seems ok with rebuilding with more young players.

In the end, I say they are as usual doing things their way, doing it slowly, not rushing into anything, and they are focusing on developing players which is Pop’s preseason statement, which is true, at least if you consider a 24 year old young.

As for Yak’s statement, it’s still possible he could be traded. Depends on the situation—he might even want to be traded if it helps him.

[SpurSpike]

There are also players on our team that say they want to win (Vessel is on record saying this). I think if they keep playing well Pops going to give them that chance because they have earned it. Would be terrible to trade away key pieces after such a strong opening. What does that tell your players? We need a bigger sample size before making any big moves imo.

[MannyIsGod]

People are overreacting both ways after a few games were the spurs could easily have lost all of them. So far, I see no reason to believe the spurs would be 3-1 in these matchups very often if we ran them back multiple times.

These wins are a fluke, they likely won't continue, and all the people acting like there wasn't a front office plan to tank can stop with their nonsense.


I'd after 20ish games the Spurs are still near .500 I'll reevaluate but nothing about these games makes me think anything other than this team has managed to ride a few hot quarter to some lucky wins.

[Mr. Body]

People are overreacting both ways after a few games were the spurs could easily have lost all of them. So far, I see no reason to believe the spurs would be 3-1 in these matchups very often if we ran them back multiple times.

These wins are a fluke, they likely won't continue, and all the people acting like there wasn't a front office plan to tank can stop with their nonsense.


I'd after 20ish games the Spurs are still near .500 I'll reevaluate but nothing about these games makes me think anything other than this team has managed to ride a few hot quarter to some lucky wins.

LMAO

[The Truth #6]

Tanking would be sitting JRich and McBuckets and playing Branham and Blake. Pop is still doing stuff his way. I’ll say it’s possible and likely Pop has acquiesced to Wright trying to trade and rebuild through the draft, but it’s clear after a few games that Pop is not outwardly, egregiously tanking.

[DAF86]

People are overreacting both ways after a few games were the spurs could easily have lost all of them. So far, I see no reason to believe the spurs would be 3-1 in these matchups very often if we ran them back multiple times.

These wins are a fluke, they likely won't continue, and all the people acting like there wasn't a front office plan to tank can stop with their nonsense.


I'd after 20ish games the Spurs are still near .500 I'll reevaluate but nothing about these games makes me think anything other than this team has managed to ride a few hot quarter to some lucky wins.

I think you are underestimating how bad the league is right now. If the Spurs and the Lakers were to play tomorrow I would put my money on San Antonio, tbh. Also, this team only lost Murray and added Sochan. If anything, the positions fit better this season. We were playing Primo instead of Sochan last season, huge improvement, tbh. I think you are in for a rude awakening if you think that, as currently constructed, we are going to do much worse than last season.

[Seventyniner]

People are overreacting both ways after a few games were the spurs could easily have lost all of them. So far, I see no reason to believe the spurs would be 3-1 in these matchups very often if we ran them back multiple times.

These wins are a fluke, they likely won't continue, and all the people acting like there wasn't a front office plan to tank can stop with their nonsense.


I'd after 20ish games the Spurs are still near .500 I'll reevaluate but nothing about these games makes me think anything other than this team has managed to ride a few hot quarter to some lucky wins.

I'm going the other way. Let's say every game had gone exactly the opposite. The Spurs:



coast to an easy wire-to-wire win over the Hornets without LaMelo
get dominated for most of the game against Indiana before a gimmicky and furious comeback that falls just short
play the Sixers close for three quarters but the Sixers pull away in the last 8 minutes
get embarrassed by Minnesota for most of the game, falling behind by 35 early in the 4th before getting hot and still not being within single digits until under a minute left


That would look like the team many of us expected, except maybe the first game (and even then, bad teams do win sometimes).

I don't think fluke teams are very likely to hold double digit leads late in the 4th quarter of three consecutive road games, two against teams that were supposed to be good.

I'm not trying to say this Spurs team will win 36 and threaten for a play-in spot. But even not withstanding the three wins the Spurs already have, what we have seen so far is more indicative of a 30 win team than a 20 win team.

[Rito3d30]

honestly if tanking was Pop's intention, dont think he will come back for this year

[slick'81]

Yea,barring an injury this team isnt going to just collapse

[exstatic]

I think you are underestimating how bad the league is right now. If the Spurs and the Lakers were to play tomorrow I would put my money on San Antonio, tbh. Also, this team only lost Murray and added Sochan. If anything, the positions fit better this season. We were playing Primo instead of Sochan last season, huge improvement, tbh. I think you are in for a rude awakening if you think that, as currently constructed, we are going to do much worse than last season.
Don’t forget, we also off loaded net negative LW IV. That’s a clear case of addition by subtraction. This team is better than last years, especially defensively, and that team won 34 games.

[John B]

^ the synergy is a lot better. I didn’t see DJM hanging out with these guys. But this group has been seen hanging out, going to Austin games, reminiscent of the Coffee Gang. And that helps too, everybody on board. Come to think of it, I don’t see any odd-ball to be considered outcast in this group.

[heyheymymy]

I still say you need some established players out there to develop unestablished players properly.

It's not 2k where mins = exp in a locked in rate. Real life these kids have nerves and confidence issues. You have to surround them with some plus guys to put them in good situations for them to blossom.

Like muscles need bones or it is just a sack of meat.

A bunch of rookies just let loose is gonna stunt growth and clip down ceilings. They would be falling over each other and getting frustrated.

I'm sure by the deadline SA will know more about who's ready to take over but let the new guys have a bit more sturdy framework to operate within first so what they're trying to learn gets settled in correctly.

[Atl Spur]

Jeremy Sochan is not a rookie bbiq wise! This man will be pretty special!

[offset formation]

Don’t forget, we also off loaded net negative LW IV. That’s a clear case of addition by subtraction. This team is better than last years, especially defensively, and that team won 34 games.

This is unfortunately a spot-on take. We are not gonna be in the bottom 4 teams, save a trade of Richardson/Poeltl or series of injuries to our wings and Sochan. We also surprisingly have a decent amount of talent and depth on the bench.

The summer league and that first game really fooled me though I must admit. I really underrated our talent. And of course we didn't get to see Sochan until our first game but it's now clear he's gonna be a stud for us. Probably even an all-star sooner than later.

[Mr. Body]

A TON of shifting around to come... but it's hard to see the Spurs being as bad as Houston, Sacramento, Detroit, Oklahoma City and Orlando look so far. Funny enough, all of those were top pickers in last year's draft. Indiana also doesn't look great. Charlotte has looked better than expected, etc.

Point is, I doubt the Spurs come close to a bottom 4 record. Their coach is too good and they play too hard.

[Atl Spur]

We draft well…..

[Chomag]

This team has to many good players to be below some of these bottom teams but they are not good enough to be among the elites. Sadly that puts us right in the middle and that's probably the worst place to be in for a sports franchise.

If san antonio were a desirable free agent agent destination then it might not be so critical as we get to pick and chose which top tier free agents come and go but that's just not the case here

[Mr. Body]

This team has to many good players to be below some of these bottom teams but they are not good enough to be among the elites. Sadly that puts us right in the middle and that's probably the worst place to be in for a sports franchise.

If san antonio were a desirable free agent agent destination then it might not be so critical as we get to pick and chose which top tier free agents come and go but that's just not the case here

I'd somewhat agree with the treadmill concerns if the team didn't have 14 players under 25 and four of them only 19. They have a lot of players who haven't reached their potential yet at all.

[John B]

This team has to many good players to be below some of these bottom teams but they are not good enough to be among the elites. Sadly that puts us right in the middle and that's probably the worst place to be in for a sports franchise.

If san antonio were a desirable free agent agent destination then it might not be so critical as we get to pick and chose which top tier free agents come and go but that's just not the case here

In 2-3 years if Spurs keep the current roster and continually improving, adding 2-3 veterans on the 3rd year, I think they contend. I’m saying this because already they play so well, granted it’s a small sample size. The Beautiful Game didn’t have Tier 1 players, but had to rely on team execution. Already this team of 19-22 years old are executing very well. Pop knows it’s a shot to the moon to get Tier 1, through draft and even less through free agency. But the Beautiful Game proved you don’t need a tier 1. Maybe 2-3 AS caliber hopefully in Keldon, Devin and Sochan, and a set of solid unselfish role players.

It’s still a long wayyyy to go. But if they continue, Beautiful Game 2 baby. Not impossible.

[rascal]

Spurs will be a bottom two or three team.

A top two or three draft pick will still be the end result of the season.

[DAF86]

Spurs will be a bottom two or three team.

A top two or three draft pick will still be the end result of the season.

Fingers crossed.

[rascal]

In 2-3 years if Spurs keep the current roster and continually improving, adding 2-3 veterans on the 3rd year, I think they contend. I’m saying this because already they play so well, granted it’s a small sample size. The Beautiful Game didn’t have Tier 1 players, but had to rely on team execution. Already this team of 19-22 years old are executing very well. Pop knows it’s a shot to the moon to get Tier 1, through draft and even less through free agency. But the Beautiful Game proved you don’t need a tier 1. Maybe 2-3 AS caliber hopefully in Keldon, Devin and Sochan, and a set of solid unselfish role players.

It’s still a long wayyyy to go. But if they continue, Beautiful Game 2 baby. Not impossible.

The over reaction to a couple of early season wins in here is ridiculous.

[John B]

The over reaction to a couple of early season wins in here is ridiculous.

I said a long wayyy to go. But if they continue, in 2-3 years they contend. I don’t think that’s over reacting. This is more a statement that it is NOT necessary to have a tier 1 player as Beautiful Game proved. I said 2-3 AS caliber players hopefully Keldon, Devin and Sochan plus solid unselfish role players would get you there. I’m stating that it is possible that Spurs don’t necessarily tank for Victor/Scoot which the odds is too high, getting the pick, on top of them taking us to the championship, etc vs continually developing this current roster and empowering them with W’s.

I didn’t say they’re comparable to Beautiful Game now, but it is a more realistic path to build them into a Beautiful Game 2, again in 2-3 years.

[BacktoBasics]

I said a long wayyy to go. But if they continue, in 2-3 years they contend. I don’t think that’s over reacting. This is more a statement that it is NOT necessary to have a tier 1 player as Beautiful Game proved. I said 2-3 AS caliber players hopefully Keldon, Devin and Sochan plus solid unselfish role players would get you there. I’m stating that it is possible that Spurs don’t necessarily tank for Victor/Scoot which the odds is too high, getting the pick, on top of them taking us to the championship, etc vs continually developing this current roster and empowering them with W’s.

I didn’t say they’re comparable to Beautiful Game now, but it is a more realistic path to build them into a Beautiful Game 2, again in 2-3 years.

The bottom line is that this group plays team ball. If they land a decent player in the next draft this team could easily package a few picks for an impactful veteran and become a playoff team after next offseason.

If the money is right I don’t hate the idea of keeping poodle. It’s not like he’s 31-32 years old.

[DAF86]

What's all this talk about the beatiful game not having a tier 1 player. They had 4 Hall of famers. :lol

Sure, 3 of them weren't in their primes but still, they are special players. You need top talent to win in the NBA. Adding another mid talent to the core of Keldon and Vassell isn't going to get it done, tbh.

[baseline bum]

What's all this talk about the beatiful game not having a tier 1 player. They had 4 Hall of famers. :lol

Sure, 3 of them weren't in their primes but still, they are special players. You need top talent to win in the NBA. Adding another mid talent to the core of Keldon and Vassell isn't going to get it done, tbh.

LOL no shit. Not just four HOF'ers but also role players like Diaw and Splitter that were elite passers. Plus that team had arguably the two best wing defensive players in the league too. Beautiful Game featured a monumentally stacked roster.

[TD 21]

The bottom line is that this group plays team ball. If they land a decent player in the next draft this team could easily package a few picks for an impactful veteran and become a playoff team after next offseason.

If the money is right I don’t hate the idea of keeping poodle. It’s not like he’s 31-32 years old.

They just got off the treadmill they've been on the past half decade. There's no need to overreact to a handful of games (even in the hypothetical that it somehow maintains) and get back on.

Do this right, hope to get lucky for 1-2 years and this could, if not turn fast, at least look more promising than it has in some time.

[rascal]

I said a long wayyy to go. But if they continue, in 2-3 years they contend. I don’t think that’s over reacting. This is more a statement that it is NOT necessary to have a tier 1 player as Beautiful Game proved. I said 2-3 AS caliber players hopefully Keldon, Devin and Sochan plus solid unselfish role players would get you there. I’m stating that it is possible that Spurs don’t necessarily tank for Victor/Scoot which the odds is too high, getting the pick, on top of them taking us to the championship, etc vs continually developing this current roster and empowering them with W’s.

I didn’t say they’re comparable to Beautiful Game now, but it is a more realistic path to build them into a Beautiful Game 2, again in 2-3 years.

Yes it is. It's an over reaction to three regular season wins in the first week of the season. They won't be a contending team without adding a top tier all star level player or two to the current roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

What's all this talk about the beatiful game not having a tier 1 player. They had 4 Hall of famers. :lol

Sure, 3 of them weren't in their primes but still, they are special players. You need top talent to win in the NBA. Adding another mid talent to the core of Keldon and Vassell isn't going to get it done, tbh.

I was about to say the same thing

[offset formation]

I said a long wayyy to go. But if they continue, in 2-3 years they contend. I don’t think that’s over reacting. This is more a statement that it is NOT necessary to have a tier 1 player as Beautiful Game proved. I said 2-3 AS caliber players hopefully Keldon, Devin and Sochan plus solid unselfish role players would get you there. I’m stating that it is possible that Spurs don’t necessarily tank for Victor/Scoot which the odds is too high, getting the pick, on top of them taking us to the championship, etc vs continually developing this current roster and empowering them with W’s.

I didn’t say they’re comparable to Beautiful Game now, but it is a more realistic path to build them into a Beautiful Game 2, again in 2-3 years.

No they don't contend without a game changer or two on offense. Could at least one of those be Sochan if he develops his outside shot? Yes. Or Primo if he isnt a PG? Yes. Not sure that happens though. But we need at least 1 more. And further defensive improvement from the point.

We probably need a top level PG too. Aside from that, we might be ok at the 2-4, maybe 2-5 if Poeltl learns how to shoot FTs.

[BacktoBasics]

Yes it is. It's an over reaction to three regular season wins in the first week of the season. They won't be a contending team without adding a top tier all star level player or two to the current roster.

I don't think anyone denied this

[RC_Drunkford]

No they don't contend without a game changer or two on offense. Could at least one of those be Sochan if he develops his outside shot? Yes. Or Primo if he isnt a PG? Yes. Not sure that happens though. But we need at least 1 more. And further defensive improvement from the point.

We probably need a top level PG too. Aside from that, we might be ok at the 2-4, maybe 2-5 if Poeltl learns how to shoot FTs.

if we get Scoot, keep Poeltl and you got a nice starting 5. If we get Wembanyama we need a PG. If we get neither, we will have too many forwards on the team.

[Elementis]

most people here expect development from the young guys and are excited to see them do well.
most people here also want the Spurs to finish at the bottom to get a good draft pick.

you cannot outtank some of the other teams with the current roster. those guys are young and eager to get better and have enough potential to do that to a certain level. as i said before, the team is too good right now to be able to trigger a full rebuild in the next year, unless they really tear it down first. but that requires Keldon and Vassel to be traded first (in addition to Rich and Poeltl).

the alternative would have been to send all the new picks to the G-League for a year, shut down good guys with phony injuries, and play same washed up vets who don't care if they are told to lose as long as they get paid.

[Mugen]

if we get Scoot, keep Poeltl and you got a nice starting 5. If we get Wembanyama we need a PG. If we get neither, we will have too many forwards on the team.

Nick Smith tbh.

But this team is still in no position to pass up talent at any position because of fit. They need blue chip prospects, period.

[BackHome]

Obviously I would be on clown 9 if we were to fall into pick 1 or 2 - But I still would be Very Happy to pick up

[BackHome]

Obviously I would be on clown 9 if we were to fall into pick 1 or 2 - But I still would be Very Happy to pick up

Amen Thompson- 6’7 PG
Cason Wallace - 6’4 PG
Nick Smith 6’4 - If he plays point this year

Cam Whitmore - 6’6 G
Dillon Mitchell- 6’7 G

Gregory Jackson 6’9 - Kid is only 17 love those growth plates

Derick Lively - 7’1 C
Kel’el Ware - 7’0

My 3 Sleepers
Leonard Miller - 6’11 SF
Brandon Miller - 6’9 SF
Jordan Walsh - 6’7 - Dude arm length is 7’3 - Wow

[stnick2261]

most people here expect development from the young guys and are excited to see them do well.
most people here also want the Spurs to finish at the bottom to get a good draft pick.

you cannot outtank some of the other teams with the current roster. those guys are young and eager to get better and have enough potential to do that to a certain level. as i said before, the team is too good right now to be able to trigger a full rebuild in the next year, unless they really tear it down first. but that requires Keldon and Vassel to be traded first (in addition to Rich and Poeltl).

the alternative would have been to send all the new picks to the G-League for a year, shut down good guys with phony injuries, and play same washed up vets who don't care if they are told to lose as long as they get paid.

All you really need to do is play full strength against the top tier teams (experience)
& rest 2 starters (any reason) against the tanking teams (to both give us a loss AND give them a win)

[KingKev]

All you really need to do is play full strength against the top tier teams (experience)
& rest 2 starters (any reason) against the tanking teams (to both give us a loss AND give them a win)

and at the end of the year don’t win games where the opposing team’s best player is Drew Eubanks and you are full steam.

Swallow your damn pride for 10-15 games for a shot at 10-15 years of relevancy.

[Atl Spur]

and at the end of the year don’t win games where the opposing team’s best player is Drew Eubanks and you are full steam.

Swallow your damn pride for 10-15 fames for a shot at 10-15 years of relevancy

Facts

[KingKev]

All you really need to do is play full strength against the top tier teams (experience)
& rest 2 starters (any reason) against the tanking teams (to both give us a loss AND give them a win)

and this has been mentioned elsewhere but against tanking teams let guys like Romeo, Wesley, Branham have the keys. If we win we developed our guys. If we lose we still developed our guys.

I think PATFO will have the right mind state down the stretch given their recent humility.

[BackHome]

Put some respect into Drew Eubanks name Portland is 4 and 1 and Drew is averaging 13 minutes a game

[KingKev]

Put some respect into Drew Eubanks name Portland is 4 and 1 and Drew is averaging 13 minutes a game

and Eubanks helped them get Shaedon Sharpe who looks pretty decent to start.

[DAF86]

I don't want to miss on a top 3 pick for the play-in again :( Not in this draft.

[John B]

They have better value towards trade deadline, where teams are trying to make the final push and needing those Vets. And I don’t mind that they’re presence provide some competitiveness where our young can excel better. But yup if Jak would demand north of 25mil per year, sayonara Mr Poeltl.

[mo7888]

They have better value towards trade deadline, where teams are trying to make the final push and needing those Vets. And I don’t mind that they’re presence provide some competitiveness where our young can excel better. But yup if Jak would demand north of 25mil per year, sayonara Mr Poeltl.

I agree with one exception...the Lakers...they have more value now because they can't wait until the deadline to make a move...

[LeBowen]

I don't want to miss on a top 3 pick for the play-in again :( Not in this draft.

And how do you plan on getting a top3 pick with shitters like Houston, Orlando, Pistons, Hornets and OKC?
Do you ruin a year of development for all of the young guys by sitting them out game after game?


As for Poeltl, trading him would be just stupid unless we can get 2 FRPs. He's a perfect fit for the roster.
JRich and McDermott should go before the deadline.

[John B]

And how do you plan on getting a top3 pick with shitters like Houston, Orlando, Pistons, Hornets and OKC?
Do you ruin a year of development for all of the young guys by sitting them out game after game?


As for Poeltl, trading him would be just stupid unless we can get 2 FRPs. He's a perfect fit for the roster.
JRich and McDermott should go before the deadline.

I agree. But how much are you willing to pay for a Center who you cannot play in the 4th quarter?

[LeBowen]

I agree. But how much are you willing to pay for a Center who you cannot play in the 4th quarter?

With the cap rising, I'd say anything between 18 and 20 would be fine. Add bonuses for FT% or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'd trade him for a good offer, but Spurs shouldn't be actively looking to trade him.

Tbh, come the draft we'll have all the answers.
We'll know if Keldon, Devin or anyone will develop into something more than expected. We'll know which pick we are getting and the situation of some potential targets.
At some point we'll have more picks than roster slots and it will be time for a trade.
If we can't land Scoot or some other potential star PG (I don't really follow college stuff), then we'll have to trade for one. Assuming Devin-Keldon-Sochan develop well and are guaranteed starters.
Right now SGA is a pipe dream, but eventually he'll want to win some games and tanking year after year in Okhlahoma isn't exactly what an aspiring star player wants to do.
If he ever became available, I'd gladly trade a lot of picks for him.

Unless we can get an MVP level big, they're not worth it in this league anymore. The focus should be on a potentially star playmaker. KAT will probably be available soon because Wolves are a dumpster fire yet again, but he'll be on a massive contract and definitely not worth it.
If KAT is worth 60 a year, Ayton 35, then Jakob is definitely worth 20 to 22. If only he could get that FT% above 60%.

Right now we should just have fun watching everyone develop. I'd like to get Victor as much as everyone else, but chances of that happening would be very low, even if we get a top3 worst record.

[exstatic]

With the cap rising, I'd say anything between 18 and 20 would be fine. Add bonuses for FT% or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'd trade him for a good offer, but Spurs shouldn't be actively looking to trade him.

Tbh, come the draft we'll have all the answers.
We'll know if Keldon, Devin or anyone will develop into something more than expected. We'll know which pick we are getting and the situation of some potential targets.
At some point we'll have more picks than roster slots and it will be time for a trade.
If we can't land Scoot or some other potential star PG (I don't really follow college stuff), then we'll have to trade for one. Assuming Devin-Keldon-Sochan develop well and are guaranteed starters.
Right now SGA is a pipe dream, but eventually he'll want to win some games and tanking year after year in Okhlahoma isn't exactly what an aspiring star player wants to do.
If he ever became available, I'd gladly trade a lot of picks for him.

Unless we can get an MVP level big, they're not worth it in this league anymore. The focus should be on a potentially star playmaker. KAT will probably be available soon because Wolves are a dumpster fire yet again, but he'll be on a massive contract and definitely not worth it.
If KAT is worth 60 a year, Ayton 35, then Jakob is definitely worth 20 to 22. If only he could get that FT% above 60%.

Right now we should just have fun watching everyone develop. I'd like to get Victor as much as everyone else, but chances of that happening would be very low, even if we get a top3 worst record.

SGA is massively overrated on this board. I’d put him in the same category as Fox and DJ, guys who will hover right around All Star level for a period of years, get picked a few times,but not a guy you can build a franchise around.

[LeBowen]

SGA is massively overrated on this board. I’d put him in the same category as Fox and DJ, guys who will hover right around All Star level for a period of years, get picked a few times,but not a guy you can build a franchise around.

I just think that he'd fit perfectly alongside Devin and Keldon.
The main premise is for two of them to develop into 25ppg scorers with solid defense, then we'll be onto something.

We can forget about getting an MVP level player, unless we draft one.

[Mr. Body]

SGA is massively overrated on this board. I’d put him in the same category as Fox and DJ, guys who will hover right around All Star level for a period of years, get picked a few times,but not a guy you can build a franchise around.

Yuuuuup.

OKC wins when he plays HAM but it doesn't happen enough. All those small Kentucky guards are the same -- Booker, Fox, SGA -- lots of shots, can't win often enough on their own. (Bledsoe, Wall...)

[John B]

I’m not putting all my eggs on one basket hoping for a Victor or Scoot miracle. If it happens, it happens. And nope, not a chance of a Tier 1 knocking on Spurs’ door. I think what the Beautiful Game showed us was, you don’t really need a Tier 1 to compete. It would be nice! And don’t anybody give me, “b-but the Big 3 were HOFer.” Well not in 2013-14. They were passed their prime. What we need though would be 2-3 All-Star caliber players, who can pass, not heavy iso type and can depend. Keldon, Devin and that 3rd guy, maybe Blake, he seems a stud to me. If Spurs can have 3 players who can consistently put up 20+ or more, a defensive Big to anchor the defense, a couple of point-of-attack stoppers, and a solid bench, forget Tier 1, it’s enough for a Beautiful Game. Sochan is intriguing because he has that passing skills, ala Bobo. Tre is solid, but as a backup PG. I’m hoping Blake can be that SGA, Fox type and it’s enough for me. If we’re lucky to get a Victor or Scoot, then even better. But I’m not gambling the development of my young core losing games to get a high pick. Just my take.

[spurraider21]

I agree with one exception...the Lakers...they have more value now because they can't wait until the deadline to make a move...
starting to think the lakers are throwing in the towel on this season. will just hope to make a move in the offseason with westbrook's deal off the books while keeping their remaining picks

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m not putting all my eggs on one basket hoping for a Victor or Scoot miracle. If it happens, it happens. And nope, not a chance of a Tier 1 knocking on Spurs’ door. I think what the Beautiful Game showed us was, you don’t really need a Tier 1 to compete. It would be nice! And don’t anybody give me, “b-but the Big 3 were HOFer.” Well not in 2013-14. They were passed their prime. What we need though would be 2-3 All-Star caliber players, who can pass, not heavy iso type and can depend. Keldon, Devin and that 3rd guy, maybe Blake, he seems a stud to me. If Spurs can have 3 players who can consistently put up 20+ or more, a defensive Big to anchor the defense, a couple of point-of-attack stoppers, and a solid bench, forget Tier 1, it’s enough for a Beautiful Game. Sochan is intriguing because he has that passing skills, ala Bobo. Tre is solid, but as a backup PG. I’m hoping Blake can be that SGA, Fox type and it’s enough for me. If we’re lucky to get a Victor or Scoot, then even better. But I’m not gambling the development of my young core losing games to get a high pick. Just my take.

stupidity at its finest

[CGD]

starting to think the lakers are throwing in the towel on this season. will just hope to make a move in the offseason with westbrook's deal off the books while keeping their remaining picks

I think so too. I bet they’re quietly gauging the Davis market. Not sure they’re gonna be all that pleased tho.

[John B]

stupidity at its finest

:lmao:lmao

So Einstein, you think any of the Big 3 were Tier 1 in 2013-14? Only TP was All-Star and averaged barely 17 pts that year. Dumbass. I said 2-3 All-Star caliber players who could put up 20+ points, defensive big, point-of-attack defenders and a solid bench, and a team who are willing to pass, no heavy iso. That I think Pop can duplicate the Beautiful Game. This young group was showing a glimpse, but again they are very inexperienced so would be prone to abandoning the system when harrassed. But as they start winning, they will learn to trust the system.

Surely you know Pop adjusted his game style with his players, and as they get older. From twin towers defensive, grit style low scoring, to Timmy in-and-out to slashing Manu, to Tony pick and roll, and finally with the addition of Bobo/Splitter both passing big men, the Beautiful Game constant motion game, because none of the Big 3 were dominant anymore to carry the team by themselves alone. Dumbass :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

:lmao:lmao

So Einstein, you think any of the Big 3 were Tier 1 in 2013-14? Only TP was All-Star and averaged barely 17 pts that year. Dumbass. I said 2-3 All-Star caliber players who could put up 20+ points, defensive big, point-of-attack defenders and a solid bench, and a team who are willing to pass, no heavy iso. That I think Pop can duplicate the Beautiful Game. This young group was showing a glimpse, but again they are very inexperienced so would be prone to abandoning the system when harrassed. But as they start winning, they will learn to trust the system.

Surely you know Pop adjusted his game style with his players, and as they get older. From twin towers defensive, grit style low scoring, to Timmy in-and-out to slashing Manu, to Tony pick and roll, and finally with the addition of Bobo/Splitter both passing big men, the Beautiful Game constant motion game, because none of the Big 3 were dominant anymore to carry the team by themselves alone. Dumbass :lol

with 4 Hall Of Famers on the team. Show me one on this Spurs team

[John B]

with 4 Hall Of Famers on the team. Show me one on this Spurs team

Okay genius. What are you twelve? They barely started their NBA careers. So you have a crystal ball and saw that Keldon, Devin and Sochan would not be HOFers? In 2014, did you honestly think Kawhi would be a HOFer caliber? Yeah right. Not until the following year did he crack 20 pts average, and the year after that got his 1st All-Star. Keldon and Devin are now averaging over 20+ Points each. Who knows if they would not have HOFer careers? Dumbass

[Atl Spur]

Okay genius. What are you twelve? They barely started their NBA careers. So you have a crystal ball and saw that Keldon, Devin and Sochan would not be HOFers? In 2014, did you honestly think Kawhi would be a HOFer caliber? Yeah right. Not until the following year did he crack 20 pts average, and the year after that got his 1st All-Star. Keldon and Devin are now averaging over 20+ Points each. Who knows if they would not have HOFer careers? Dumbass

#facts

[K...]

4 HOF is dumb because we were facing a team with 3 HOF and those 3 were more in their prime (also 3 HOF OKC in their primes, and 2 HOF Clippers). NOW? Lebron TOSB, jokic and giannis are on good all around teams. The nets are garbage. That's two one HOF team we are likely to need to get over. Do we have a sure shot blue chip HOF? not really, but the league isn't as stacked as it was then, so we don't need a all time great stacked team to contend.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

4 HOF is dumb because we were facing a team with 3 HOF and those 3 were more in their prime
Heat also had 4 HOF players.
LeBron, Wade, Bosh and Allen.

[BackHome]

Well Raptors just took a big hit Precious Achiuwa suffered a partial ligament tear in his ankle out indefinitely. It sucks for them as they were starting to turn the corner and really playing some good basketball. The Raptors have always been kinda tight but it seems like a deal could be worked out as they know Poetl and I think he would not mind signing an extension with them as he likes the team and city.

The million dollar question is what should the trade get us - I would say two first as the picks will be mid first round or maybe go with 2023 top 16 protected and 2026 top 10 protected?

[DAF86]

Get a 1st for Poeltl and make room for Bassey.

[tonight...you]

I’m not putting all my eggs on one basket hoping for a Victor or Scoot miracle. If it happens, it happens. And nope, not a chance of a Tier 1 knocking on Spurs’ door. I think what the Beautiful Game showed us was, you don’t really need a Tier 1 to compete. It would be nice! And don’t anybody give me, “b-but the Big 3 were HOFer.” Well not in 2013-14. They were passed their prime. What we need though would be 2-3 All-Star caliber players, who can pass, not heavy iso type and can depend. Keldon, Devin and that 3rd guy, maybe Blake, he seems a stud to me. If Spurs can have 3 players who can consistently put up 20+ or more, a defensive Big to anchor the defense, a couple of point-of-attack stoppers, and a solid bench, forget Tier 1, it’s enough for a Beautiful Game. Sochan is intriguing because he has that passing skills, ala Bobo. Tre is solid, but as a backup PG. I’m hoping Blake can be that SGA, Fox type and it’s enough for me. If we’re lucky to get a Victor or Scoot, then even better. But I’m not gambling the development of my young core losing games to get a high pick. Just my take.
I can dig this, but for one problem.
Pop isn't going to coach this team for a whole lot longer.
And who knows what the next coach is going to try to install.

[RC_Drunkford]

Okay genius. What are you twelve? They barely started their NBA careers. So you have a crystal ball and saw that Keldon, Devin and Sochan would not be HOFers? In 2014, did you honestly think Kawhi would be a HOFer caliber? Yeah right. Not until the following year did he crack 20 pts average, and the year after that got his 1st All-Star. Keldon and Devin are now averaging over 20+ Points each. Who knows if they would not have HOFer careers? Dumbass

none of the players on this roster have the ceiling that those 4 players on the Spurs had. Weather they were in their prime or not. But enlighten me with your basketball knowledge. Tell me who are those point of attack defenders you were talking about? Who is that 3rd 20+ PPG All-Star? And who are those 4 players with the passing skills of Ginobili, Diaw, Parker and Duncan? Who are those legendary defenders with a defense like Duncan‘s and Nephew‘s? Who is locking up Giannis? And who is scoring in the clutch? Because That’s what you will need to win championships

[tonight...you]

none of the players on this roster have the ceiling that those 4 players on the Spurs had. Weather they were in their prime or not. But enlighten me with your basketball knowledge. Tell me who are those point of attack defenders you were talking about? Who is that 3rd 20+ PPG All-Star? And who are those 4 players with the passing skills of Ginobili, Diaw, Parker and Duncan? Who are those legendary defenders with a defense like Duncan‘s and Nephew‘s? Who is locking up Giannis? And who is scoring in the clutch? Because That’s what you will need to win championships
I don't think old boy is saying this team is good as is, but that it has the building blocks to get where we want it to go with some additions.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think old boy is saying this team is good as is, but that it has the building blocks to get where we want it to go with some additions.

He's saying we can get there without adding a franchise player and I'm saying all we are missing is that guy. That's the argument

[John B]

I don't think old boy is saying this team is good as is, but that it has the building blocks to get where we want it to go with some additions.

Thank you. :toast:lol

[CGD]

On Lowes podcast he mused that Jakob might be a good match in NOLA, which seems interesting since they are loaded with assets

[Dejounte]

On Lowes podcast he mused that Jakob might be a good match in NOLA, which seems interesting since they are loaded with assets

Poeltl for Trey Murphy and either Dyson Daniels or Alvarado + future 1st

[CGD]

Poeltl for Trey Murphy and either Dyson Daniels or Alvarado + future 1st

No way we’re getting that for Jakob. I’m thinking Hayes (salary) and picks.

[Maddog]

On Lowes podcast he mused that Jakob might be a good match in NOLA, which seems interesting since they are loaded with assets

I don't quite see the need for NOLA
They already have a big in Jonas

[rankingtear]

I don't quite see the need for NOLA
They already have a big in Jonas

They have all theirs scorers back so Jonas really loses a lot of value for them. Also NOLA is linked to Jakob as long as CHA is.

[scott]

Jak + 2025 Atl 1st + 2023 Cha protected 1st

for

Filler + 2023 Swap with the Lakers

I’m sure these values are off AND there is no way NO gives up that Swap… but I’d do this, maybe even toss in a little more if it means two lotto balls in 2023.

[rankingtear]

NOLA could be the home run trade for Jakob. Absorbing Hayes and Jonas into cap space for Dyson and the LAL 2024/2025 first rounder. Jakob is NOLA first choice before they got Adams 2 years ago and they don't have space to sign him next offseason.

[TD 21]

NOLA could be the home run trade for Jakob. Absorbing Hayes and Jonas into cap space for Dyson and the LAL 2024/2025 first rounder. Jakob is NOLA first choice before they got Adams 2 years ago and they don't have space to sign him next offseason.

Do you remember the source?

No way the Pelicans would give up all of that for Poeltl, who'd be a good fit defensively, but a one poor offensively for them.

[CGD]

Do you remember the source?

No way the Pelicans would give up all of that for Poeltl, who'd be a good fit defensively, but a one poor offensively for them.

I’m sure they, like any team that pulls the trigger on Jakob by the deadline, will get assurances that he will reup with them. The new team gets his Bird rights to exceed the cap etc.

For Jakob what’s not to like about that awesome situation? Cant see many better aside from maybe the Raptors.

[CGD]

Jak + 2025 Atl 1st + 2023 Cha protected 1st

for

Filler + 2023 Swap with the Lakers

I’m sure these values are off AND there is no way NO gives up that Swap… but I’d do this, maybe even toss in a little more if it means two lotto balls in 2023.

I jump on that but no way NOLA swaps that pick.

[TD 21]

I’m sure they, like any team that pulls the trigger on Jakob by the deadline, will get assurances that he will reup with them. The new team gets his Bird rights to exceed the cap etc.

For Jakob what’s not to like about that awesome situation? Cant see many better aside from maybe the Raptors.

I didn't mean it like that. I just meant that'd be a significant overpay on the Pelicans part.

[mo7888]

Jonas, Dyson, and the 24 Laker pick for Jak and KBD would help both teams

[mystargtr34]

If you look at the Pels advanced stats it does look like Jonas is sticking out like a sore thumb.

https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612740/players-advanced?dir=D&sort=MIN

They have underwhelmed so far especially defensively. Their supposed interest in Jak wouldn’t surprise me. Pels are in win-now mode.

[mystargtr34]

Other teams I could see being interested in Jak

Raptors
Chicago (Vucevic sucks on defense)

[mo7888]

Other teams I could see being interested in Jak

Raptors
Chicago (Vucevic sucks on defense)

I'll add Golden State, Charlotte and Boston

[CGD]

I'll add Golden State, Charlotte and Boston

Good call, but I only think Jakob reups with NOLA, Raps, GSW. Boston is possible but he’ll always have Time Lord ahead of him, so that’s less appealing.

[CGD]

Jonas, Dyson, and the 24 Laker pick for Jak and KBD would help both teams

Apparently they’re super high on Dyson, but that would be sweet. Probably more like Jonás’s contract and two non-LAL picks.

[rankingtear]

Do you remember the source?

No way the Pelicans would give up all of that for Poeltl, who'd be a good fit defensively, but a one poor offensively for them.

Does Jonas 1 three point attempt per game really matter?

[John B]

right now I'd be happy with bag of peanuts for Jak

[exstatic]

I jump on that but no way NOLA swaps that pick.

That ATL pick is also unprotected,just like the LA pick.

[exstatic]

Apparently they’re super high on Dyson, but that would be sweet. Probably more like Jonás’s contract and two non-LAL picks.

Why has he played 5 games 47 minutes?

[MannyIsGod]

LMAO

Lost 6 out of 7.
28th in the league with a -7 net rating when they were break even last year when getting into the play in game.
28th in defense.
25th in offense.

But yes, keep telling me how they're not tanking please.

[Kevin]

Asset wise the Pels are a tough combo. No way do they surrender the Lakers picks and I cant imagine the Spurs would have much interest in the Bucks picks either. Daniels makes sense for the Spurs but not sure the Pels would pull the plug so quickly on a top 10 pick.

[R. DeMurre]

Dyson Daniels is still 19 and the Pelicans have McCollum, Alvarez, and Devonte' Graham, so it's no slight against him that he isn't getting big minutes early on in his rookie season. I doubt they'd trade Daniels straight up for Poeltl, and they certainly wouldn't attach other assets like picks to it. David Griffin, Trajan Langdon, & Swin Cash have been killin' it the last few years, and they're not going to give up that much to make a mostly sideways move, especially when Larry Nance Jr is doing such a good job and plays nearly as many minutes as Valanciunas ... if anything, they could start Nance and bring Jonas off the bench. Small sample size, but at this point both Nance and Jonas have better on/off stats than Poeltl. I like Poeltl, but the idea that he's going to bring back multiple net positive assets seems pretty unlikely at this point.

[jjspur]

That would be an excellent trade. We get a somewhat proven talent in Murphy plus a promising young player in Daniels or Alvarado + a first. I'd hate to trade Poeltl but if you can get this return then I think it would be worth it even if the pick is a few years down the line. All theses guys could fit in with our young core.

[PuzzBeterson]

Jonas, Dyson, and the 24 Laker pick for Jak and KBD would help both teams
Did the Pels FO succumb to smoking Crystal Meth?

[Jordan Jackson]

Lost 6 out of 7.
28th in the league with a -7 net rating when they were break even last year when getting into the play in game.
28th in defense.
25th in offense.

But yes, keep telling me how they're not tanking please.

Yeah. I can’t believe they’re people out there that still don’t think this front office is tanking.
Their record hasn’t bottomed out yet to what the advanced stats are point to.

Anyway - I’d be shocked if anyone gave the Spurs a 1st rd/pk for Jak.

[mo7888]

Did the Pels FO succumb to smoking Crystal Meth?

No...they just want to win now and this helps them do that...you're inability to see it isn't required...

[baseline bum]

I agree with one exception...the Lakers...they have more value now because they can't wait until the deadline to make a move...

They can wait as long as they want now, their season is over.

[slick'81]

Keep playing jrich at pg and nobody is gonna want his ass

[mo7888]

They can wait as long as they want now, their season is over.

I think that's the reality but, I don't think they realize it...those 'lakers' glasses they look at everything through is pretty compelling for them and usually compounds their problems....

[JeffDuncan]

Did the Pels FO succumb to smoking Crystal Meth?


The addiction isn’t the Pels, it’s that some guys here are addicted to trade talk. It doesn’t matter if a trade is practical, or possible, or makes any sense. They’ve got to have it. If they don’t get their “fix” of trade talk, their skin starts itching, and they start seeing pink elephants dance around the room.

[JPB]

I think that's the reality but, I don't think they realize it...those 'lakers' glasses they look at everything through is pretty compelling for them and usually compounds their problems....

Eveyone has quit on that discombobulated team, starting by the players.

Lebron is just waiting for his son to enter the league so he can play with him, Russ just don't give a fucl and won't admit he's not the (stat padding) player he was, then AD and Lakers FO look like they're angry at each others. They have no 3pt. shooters (in the 2022 NBA) and the rest of the roster doesn't look more interested... Zero accountability.

[TD 21]

Does Jonas 1 three point attempt per game really matter?

Even if the defense pays him little to no attention, he can at least be stationed elsewhere, and every little bit helps on a team as 3 adverse as they are.

Is a prohibitive cost worth it for a one way fit?

[TD 21]

Three team trade that randomly popped into my head . . .

To Knicks: Trent Jr.
To Spurs: Fournier, Birch, significant draft capital via Knicks and Raptors
To Raptors: Poeltl, Richardson

[mo7888]

Three team trade that randomly popped into my head . . .

To Knicks: Trent Jr.
To Spurs: Fournier, Birch, significant draft capital via Knicks and Raptors
To Raptors: Poeltl, Richardson

I could see that...

[Ariel]

Three team trade that randomly popped into my head . . .

To Knicks: Trent Jr.
To Spurs: Fournier, Birch, significant draft capital via Knicks and Raptors
To Raptors: Poeltl, Richardson
Whatever draft capital is involved in that trade, would have to come from the Knicks. Should be plenty, though, considering they're adding Gary Trent & dumping Fournier. 3 firsts?

[TD 21]

Whatever draft capital is involved in that trade, would have to come from the Knicks. Should be plenty, though, considering they're adding Gary Trent & dumping Fournier. 3 firsts?

No way the Raptors get a good player, at a position of need, who they've been known to covet, plus another useful player who doubles as a replacement for the key player they're giving up and dump dead money without having to give some level of draft compensation.

Knicks would obviously have to give more though. Two first's is more likely. One for dumping dead money, one for acquiring a player halfway between useful and good.

[Ariel]

No way the Raptors get a good player, at a position of need, who they've been known to covet, plus another useful player who doubles as a replacement for the key player they're giving up and dump dead money without having to give some level of draft compensation.

Knicks would obviously have to give more though. Two first's is more likely. One for dumping dead money, one for acquiring a player halfway between useful and good.
I had in mind that Fournier's contract ran 2 more years, but that last one is team option, so if that's the case then yeah, one first + maybe filler and money for the contract sounds about right. Gary Trent should command more than a first, though that would be contingent on what kind of pick we're talking about.

[TD 21]

I had in mind that Fournier's contract ran 2 more years, but that last one is team option, so if that's the case then yeah, one first + maybe filler and money for the contract sounds about right. Gary Trent should command more than a first, though that would be contingent on what kind of pick we're talking about.

Trent Jr. is a typical overrated Raptor and can/will opt out. If not for that, his value would probably be mid round 1st.

No way he's worth 3 assets, one of whom is better individually, even if arguably a less valuable archetype.

[mo7888]

Speaking of Fournier- how much do you think NY would pay to get him off that roster?

Would it be worth it to them to move him for Richardson? Maybe for the better pick of the two firsts they hold this year and we give them our 2nd from indy?

I think that's pretty fair value and Thibbs would go for it..

[CGD]

Speaking of Fournier- how much do you think NY would pay to get him off that roster?

Would it be worth it to them to move him for Richardson? Maybe for the better pick of the two firsts they hold this year and we give them our 2nd from indy?

I think that's pretty fair value and Thibbs would go for it..

Maybe.

I’m interest in the over the luxury tax that might want to shed salary like PHX, MIL, DEN, PHI.

Like what is it worth to the Suns to have us absorb Dario and Shatmat?

[CGD]

Suns—> Greyson Allen
Bucks—> Crowder
Spurs—> Saric; Shatmat; Suns FRP; Bucks FRP

Basically redirects the asset Bucks likely have to attach in the rumored Crowder-Allen deal with Suns to the Spurs along with another Suns pick to get. Allows Suns to get under the tax

[mo7888]

Maybe.

I’m interest in the over the luxury tax that might want to shed salary like PHX, MIL, DEN, PHI.

Like what is it worth to the Suns to have us absorb Dario and Shatmat?

No reason we can't do both... the Knicks pick has a chance to be in the lottery... it'll probably take an injury or something to do that but there's a chance..

[BackHome]

Mo don't get me excited...lol

[exstatic]

Maybe.

I’m interest in the over the luxury tax that might want to shed salary like PHX, MIL, DEN, PHI.

Like what is it worth to the Suns to have us absorb Dario and Shatmat?

Dario, yes, but Shamat has multiple years left. Caproom should only be rented a year at a time. Landry is under contract until 2026. No fucking thanks.

[CGD]

Dario, yes, but Shamat has multiple years left. Caproom should only be rented a year at a time. Landry is under contract until 2026. No fucking thanks.

It appears that he can be waived before year 3 according to the Capulator website, so functionally it’s just two years

[Kevin]

A Shamet and Saric for Richardson swap would reduce the Suns tax bill and improve their team. Win/Win for the Suns. Shamet's contract has no guaranteed money after next season so absorbing his deal wouldn't be too bad. As usual tho it comes down to draft capitol mostly related to protections.

[CGD]

A Shamet and Saric for Richardson swap would reduce the Suns tax bill and improve their team. Win/Win for the Suns. Shamet's contract has no guaranteed money after next season so absorbing his deal wouldn't be too bad. As usual tho it comes down to draft capitol mostly related to protections.

Yup, thats my thinking. Was also playing with expanding the rumored Crowder-Allen swap like this:

MIL: Crowder
PHX: Richardson; Allen
SAS: Saric; Shamat; Suns 23 FRP; whatever small asset MIL was going to send PHX

[CGD]

The other small trade candidate is PHI. They are like $2M over the tax.

They could send us Thybulle who they didnt extend and is clearly out of their plans + a small asset such as the 2023 SRP they own which is the better of Atlanta, Charlotte or Brooklyn.

[Kevin]

Yup, thats my thinking. Was also playing with expanding the rumored Crowder-Allen swap like this:

MIL: Crowder
PHX: Richardson; Allen
SAS: Saric; Shamat; Suns 23 FRP; whatever small asset MIL was going to send PHX

Not sure the Spurs take on the extra year of Shamet while doing the Suns a big favor for a 2023 first rounder. They would probably want a moderately protected first two or three years in the future.

[TD 21]

Yup, thats my thinking. Was also playing with expanding the rumored Crowder-Allen swap like this:

MIL: Crowder
PHX: Richardson; Allen
SAS: Saric; Shamat; Suns 23 FRP; whatever small asset MIL was going to send PHX

First and foremost, any Crowder trade has to return the Suns a rotational four.

In a vacuum, Allen is better than Shamet and Lee, but they're all similar and close enough.

[CGD]

First and foremost, any Crowder trade has to return the Suns a rotational four.

In a vacuum, Allen is better than Shamet and Lee, but they're all similar and close enough.

Why? They apparently are poised to move Crowder for Allen as is (according to the same guys that broke the DeJounte trade).

Under my proposal they get under the tax line AND get Richardson as well. Allen + Richardson give you more than non-playing Crowder + Saric + Shatmat.

[TD 21]

Why? They apparently are poised to move Crowder for Allen as is (according to the same guys that broke the DeJounte trade).

Under my proposal they get under the tax line AND get Richardson as well. Allen + Richardson give you more than non-playing Crowder + Saric + Shatmat.

Because all they have is the injury prone Johnson, mediocre Craig and diminished Saric and none are pure four's for this era anyway.

Where's the minutes for both Allen and Richardson behind Booker and Bridges? They could excise Payne from the rotation, but he's their only "downhill" initiator.

[CGD]

Because all they have is the injury prone Johnson, mediocre Craig and diminished Saric and none are pure four's for this era anyway.

Where's the minutes for both Allen and Richardson behind Booker and Bridges? They could excise Payne from the rotation, but he's their only "downhill" initiator.

I get it, but not sure what they expect to get. Clearly they’re over a barrel with crowder getting low balled. The other two have trash value.

That said I do wonder if KDB would appeal as an add on.

[mo7888]

I get it, but not sure what they expect to get. Clearly they’re over a barrel with crowder getting low balled. The other two have trash value.

That said I do wonder if KDB would appeal as an add on.

That's about as good as they can do... I don't think kbd helps much but they might talk themselves into it because of the limited market.

[KingKev]

At this point I don’t see Jak garnering more than a top 10 protected first and filler which I think we should jump at but PATFO wouldn’t.

I doubt there is a market for JRich beyond what we got for Thad. We might be able to package him and our own second to move into the first round.

That 20mm in cap is likely going unused.

[JPB]

Def don't believe Poetl brings you home a top 10 pick, not to mention the infamous Charlotte 13 & 15 from the last draft..

[CGD]

At this point I don’t see Jak garnering more than a top 10 protected first and filler which I think we should jump at but PATFO wouldn’t.

I doubt there is a market for JRich beyond what we got for Thad. We might be able to package him and our own second to move into the first round.

That 20mm in cap is likely going unused.

It’s early yet. At this point it’s all going to the deadline, but I see some opportunities:

— Knicks recent fortunes may have them talking themselves into make a trade to upgrade their shooting. Something like Fournier’s dead money and one of their many 2023 FRPs for JRich seems fair for both.

— Lakers peddling that Nunn/Beverly package ($18m in expiring money). That could be a fit for JRich and Doug for a protected FRP.

— unclear what new ownership with do in PHX, but we’re poised to be facilitators if they’re looking to upgrade the Crowder position with someone like Jollins.

— teams like Philly and Milwaukee are slightly over the tax and may be looking to do small “clean up” deals at the deadline to get under. Philly is interesting bc they own CHA’s SRP this year.

[CGD]

Def don't believe Poetl brings you home a top 10 pick, not to mention the infamous Charlotte 13 & 15 from the last draft..

At this point they should work to resign him if there is a more the 50% chance he stays. If he has already said he’s gone this summer, then work on a list of teams he’d re-sign with (gsw, raptors?) and see what the market is.

[KingKev]

At this point they should work to resign him if there is a more the 50% chance he stays. If he has already said he’s gone this summer, then work on a list of teams he’d re-sign with (gsw, raptors?) and see what the market is.

The problem with signing him to a long term deal at market rate is his trade value will be little at that point. I like Jak at his current rate but locking him up at market value during this rebuild is questionable. Especially when Keldon’s deal is about to kick in and Vassell likely to get more.

Given he is likely to command >MLE type money (I see him in the 4yrs 60-70mm range) he could be a valuable sign and trade chip as few good teams will have >MLE to offer him this summer.

[CGD]

The problem with signing him to a long term deal at market rate is his trade value will be little at that point. I like Jak at his current rate but locking him up at market value during this rebuild is questionable. Especially when Keldon’s deal is about to kick in and Vassell likely to get more.

Given he is likely to command >MLE type money (I see him in the 4yrs 60-70mm range) he could be a valuable sign and trade chip as few good teams will have >MLE to offer him this summer.

I hear you and also think we’re looking at 65/4 range. Still think he’s been worth it, and perhaps by then we’ll also have more information about the team’s draft fortunes (basically did we get Wemby or not).

I do wonder if he’d be amenable to the Keldon deal— big figure upfront then declining — with the idea of helping trade value later. Cap will also spike again soon so that could make him look like an even bigger bargain.

[KingKev]

I hear you and also think we’re looking at 65/4 range. Still think he’s been worth it, and perhaps by then we’ll also have more information about the team’s draft fortunes (basically did we get Wemby or not).

I do wonder if he’d be amenable to the Keldon deal— big figure upfront then declining — with the idea of helping trade value later. Cap will also spike again soon so that could make him look like an even bigger bargain.

Yeah I like the idea of structuring any deal front loaded given all the cap space we should have the next few years.

It’ll be a shame to lose him for nothing this offseason however and I see that as a 25%. But i’d rather lose him for nothing than overpay.

[rascal]

It’s early yet. At this point it’s all going to the deadline, but I see some opportunities:

— Knicks recent fortunes may have them talking themselves into make a trade to upgrade their shooting. Something like Fournier’s dead money and one of their many 2023 FRPs for JRich seems fair for both.

— Lakers peddling that Nunn/Beverly package ($18m in expiring money). That could be a fit for JRich and Doug for a protected FRP.

— unclear what new ownership with do in PHX, but we’re poised to be facilitators if they’re looking to upgrade the Crowder position with someone like Jollins.

— teams like Philly and Milwaukee are slightly over the tax and may be looking to do small “clean up” deals at the deadline to get under. Philly is interesting bc they own CHA’s SRP this year.

Get the idea of teams trading a first for J Rich out of your mind, not happening.

[Kevin]

No way is any team meeting the demands of two lightly protected firsts for Jak. Not mad about it. Just pay the man come summer. The Spurs don't have much else to do with their money. Might as well Pay Vassel too. The Spurs fate rests in the draft and lottery not free agency.

[Kevin]

Get the idea of teams trading a first for J Rich out of your mind, not happening.

They'll get a first for him but they'll have to include their second rounder ala Thad Young last deadline.

[Mr. Body]

They'll get a first for him but they'll have to include their second rounder ala Thad Young last deadline.

I'd do that. Didn't it net us Branham.

[CGD]

Get the idea of teams trading a first for J Rich out of your mind, not happening.

Its not a straight up first, as you can see from scenarios. Spurs still have to eat about 20M of Fourniers deal this and next year in the first, and in the second Spurs would also have to send Doug for Lakers trash to earn a protected first.

[CGD]

They'll get a first for him but they'll have to include their second rounder ala Thad Young last deadline.

It’s a good model.

[spurraider21]

At this point I don’t see Jak garnering more than a top 10 protected first and filler which I think we should jump at but PATFO wouldn’t.

I doubt there is a market for JRich beyond what we got for Thad. We might be able to package him and our own second to move into the first round.

That 20mm in cap is likely going unused.
id do that in a heartbeat and not think twice, but im not sure we're going to see contenders seek out these types of deals until closer to the deadline. and frankly, richardson hasnt been playing exceptionally well this year to the point where i can only hope such offers would be on the table

[KingKev]

id do that in a heartbeat and not think twice, but im not sure we're going to see contenders seek out these types of deals until closer to the deadline. and frankly, richardson hasnt been playing exceptionally well this year to the point where i can only hope such offers would be on the table

Yeah but Thad has done less in the last few years tbh so I think this scenario is in the table for a contender looking to shore up the bench going into the playoffs although I haven't looked at who has their 2023 FRP available to trade.

Part of the reason the Raps traded for Thad was it made sense from a cap perspective; they weren’t going to fall under the salary cap for the 2022 off-season so bringing in Thad meant they could use their 2022-23 MLE on someone else AND resign Thad using his bird rights while still staying under the lux tax.

Other teams may be looking to do the same knowing they are entering into the 2023 off-season with just the MLE and few other levers to pull to upgrade their roster. Acquiring JRich at the deadline means they can use his bird rights to retain him.

[JPB]

Yeah Poetl might get you a 20 something. Maybe a bit more with a SRP added. Nothing above the 20 area, IMHO. Let's say 15 big max if you're lucky.

[JPB]

Get the idea of teams trading a first for J Rich out of your mind, not happening.

Agreed. It's the kind of guy a contender would claim off waiwers but wouldn't give much for in a trade.

[DPG21920]

Yeah Poetl might get you a 20 something. Maybe a bit more with a SRP added. Nothing above the 20 area, IMHO. Let's say 15 big max if you're lucky.

Use that CHA pick to get a legit first and I think easily you can move Jakob. He will net one very solid first on his own - two is doubtful. But I don’t think SA trades him since he’s a good fit here.

[DPG21920]

Agreed. It's the kind of guy a contender would claim off waiwers but wouldn't give much for in a trade.

A multi-year 40%+ 3PT shooter who can handle ball in pinch and proven he is a good locker room guy? I think definitely there will be trade interest..

[spurraider21]

im not so eager/impatient to move the charlotte pick. that has a lot of time to convey.

[DPG21920]

im not so eager/impatient to move the charlotte pick. that has a lot of time to convey.

Protections are so bad that it’s very unlikely it conveys.

[spurraider21]

Protections are so bad that it’s very unlikely it conveys.
we can be certain it wont convey this year, but the protection does weaken a bit and 2 more seasons is a long time.

[DPG21920]

we can be certain it wont convey this year, but the protection does weaken a bit and 2 more seasons is a long time.

Charlotte's 1st round pick to San Antonio protected for selections 1-16 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025; if Charlotte has not conveyed a 1st round pick to San Antonio by 2025, then Charlotte will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round draft pick to San Antonio (via New York to Atlanta) [Charlotte-New York, 7/30/2021; Atlanta-New York, 1/13/2022; Atlanta-San Antonio, 6/30/2022]

I mean, that is betting CHA is going to be a playoff team in next 2 years…not so sure I see that but not impossible

Point I think I’m trying to make is if someone values that CHA pick I would take that value in the form of a better for sure pick in a deal for Jakob or Richardson and lock it in - even if it means losing the extra pick (one pick 10 is worth more than 2 pick 15s for example IMO)

[slick'81]

Spurs arent getting shit for jrich. If wright can manage a first he deserves a raise

[jjspur]

Its hard to gauge what we can get for JRich because of his salary. You might get somewhat close in a lesser players salary + a second but that's probably it. hardly any teams have space to absorb salary for just a pick or picks. We might even have to include one of our picks to get rid of him.

If the team can't do anything, just keep him for the rest of the season. No sense in letting him go just to make another team better.

[spurraider21]

Its hard to gauge what we can get for JRich because of his salary. You might get somewhat close in a lesser players salary + a second but that's probably it. hardly any teams have space to absorb salary for just a pick or picks. We might even have to include one of our picks to get rid of him.

If the team can't do anything, just keep him for the rest of the season. No sense in letting him go just to make another team better.
richardson is expiring, so a team can unload salary they dont want as part of the deal. recall when we traded richard jefferson and a first for stephen jackson. it wasnt necessarily because stephen jackson was so much better than RJ that the swap warranted a first, it was that jackson and jefferson had similar salaries but jackson's deal expired one year sooner

[exstatic]

Its hard to gauge what we can get for JRich because of his salary. You might get somewhat close in a lesser players salary + a second but that's probably it. hardly any teams have space to absorb salary for just a pick or picks. We might even have to include one of our picks to get rid of him.

If the team can't do anything, just keep him for the rest of the season. No sense in letting him go just to make another team better.

Yeah, deadline trades are rarely into cap room, from a contender point of view. They’ll either send a trash player on an expiring, or a contract that runs one year longer.

[duncan2150]

Cleveland wanting some Wing and Denver wanting some bench help, it could be a market for J Rich. You'll not have a first imo but maybe ask a late first for our secound.