Was Instagram Baller holding us back?

[KobesAchilles]

No more dribble dribble dribble iso ball down the stretch. No more stat padding from our PG. instead we have a PG who is in the flow of the offense and that means the whole team is in the flow of the offense.

The chemistry of the team looks amazing. No passive aggressive tweets from our leaders talking about fake tough guys and putting down our teammates. They seem to truly be excited when a young guy does well rather than pout about it and make threats. This team looks and plays free.

DJ would have monster games, don’t get me wrong. But he also had a lot of growing pains of trying to be “the man” instead of just playing basketball.

[MultiTroll]

Please.

He ran the offense the way Popped instructed him to.

[BillMc]

Don't know if he held them back (I doubt it) but team is way more fun to watch now.

[mo7888]

No more dribble dribble dribble iso ball down the stretch. No more stat padding from our PG. instead we have a PG who is in the flow of the offense and that means the whole team is in the flow of the offense.

The chemistry of the team looks amazing. No passive aggressive tweets from our leaders talking about fake tough guys and putting down our teammates. They seem to truly be excited when a young guy does well rather than pout about it and make threats. This team looks and plays free.

DJ would have monster games, don’t get me wrong. But he also had a lot of growing pains of trying to be “the man” instead of just playing basketball.

I don't think he did but if we were still on the team...maybe...

[TDomination]

Hmm.. I guess we’ll see

[DAF86]

Nah, this team is just very well coached and have some good players starting to get into their "veteran" years. I really wanted to see how this team would have done with Murray still in it. Playoffs would have been very likely.

[Mr. Body]

No, he was supposed to do that stuff. But it seems clear the team can cover for what he did.

[slick'81]

Losing white was bigger for vassell to get minutes

[B1gduff]

or maybe the other guys took that next step.

Devin, is a fricken beast so far
Jakob has been solid
Sochan has greatly improved this team's defense
bench is rock solid
Keldon is Keldon
Tre has improved

If we can be constant and get around 20pt per night from 2/5 starters, and another one gives up aropund 10-15, plus the bench scoring 35+ pt, the chance of us winning look good.

[Chinook]

Please.

He ran the offense the way Popped instructed him to.

Yes and no. Pop didn't want Murray to dominate the ball. He wouldn't've played him with White and DeRozan if he had. But Pop did want Murray to be aggressive. Dude's not just a product of the stuff around him. Pop wanted to harness what Murray can do well, and that dictated some of the offense the Spurs ran. Now that Jones is a reliable shooter, everyone on the court provides spacing and can make plays for others. The picture for what Pop has wanted the team to be for years is now clearer. They still lack the talent to really make it work, but they're also playing above their talent right now.

[poopbox]

No. It's more about everyone playing their actual positions. Sochan defense at the 4 is already WAY better than Keldon's ever was. Because of that we can actually go 2 or 3 minute stretches not giving up a point. Couldn't do that the last few years tbh.

[Chinook]

Losing white was bigger for vassell to get minutes

Losing White and gaining a version of what White was to become in Richardson. Richardson can do a lot of the secondary playmaking White is doing now but without the pressure to be the PG of the team. Sochan being able to do that kind of stuff as a PF is also going underrated. It's going to be really hard to trap the Spurs since they have so many guys who can bring up the ball under light pressure and don't have to force Primo and Jones to do it.

[Uriel]

Lol. This team would have a legit shot at the playoffs this year if Instagram Baller were still in it.

[MultiTroll]

No. It's more about everyone playing their actual positions. Sochan defense at the 4 is already WAY better than Keldon's ever was. Because of that we can actually go 2 or 3 minute stretches not giving up a point. Couldn't do that the last few years tbh.

[MultiTroll]

No. It's more about everyone playing their actual positions. Sochan defense at the 4 is already WAY better than Keldon's ever was. Because of that we can actually go 2 or 3 minute stretches not giving up a point. Couldn't do that the last few years tbh.


Lol. This team would have a legit shot at the playoffs this year if Instagram Baller were still in it.
Additionally Vasell KJ and Primo are simply better this year.
Duh, a year or two removed from their rookie years.

[mystargtr34]

Yeah Spurs all of a sudden have a BIG versatile lineup on both ends. Sliding Keldon down to his natural position has been huge, same with Devin. Sochan is the main reason why this has happened.

Also, Keldon and Devin have both gone to another level from last season.

And Tre Jones has been huge this season. A true PG who pushes the pace and puts pressure on the defense. And when the Spurs do need to play half court offense, Tre gets them into the offense early.

[mystargtr34]

^ also, none of the above can happen with DJM still here, other than Sochan playing the 4. You could still have DJM in Tre's spot, but you don't get the leap from Devin, Keldon and Tre with DJM still here commanding the ball.

[MultiTroll]

DJ Murray is ballin down in ATL.
2-1.

The one loss, Trey Young went Kobme at 9-25 and John Collins was 0-7 on treys. Not DJs fault, solid game 19/8/5 per usual.



Sat, Feb 11
vs
https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/teamlogos/nba/500/sa.png&w=40&h=40 (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)San Antonio (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs) Book it Dano.

[td4mvp2k]

trading stat boy is already paying off

[MultiTroll]

Ya Murray should have done more with this.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bryn-forbes-and-patty-mills-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-talk-against-the-picture-id901301050?s=594x594

[mystargtr34]

Ya Murray should have done more with this.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bryn-forbes-and-patty-mills-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-talk-against-the-picture-id901301050?s=594x594

God. Stop brining back those nightmares.

You replace Sochan with either one of those guys tonight and the Spurs lose by 10. Simple as that.

[stephen jackson]

Maybe we shoulda kept white to run pg he’d be fun with this bunch

[scott]

Wouldn't say he held us back, but maybe more like it is possible he isn't all that impactful of a player. The stats are nice, but they didn't translate to anything more or less than when DDR was our focal point.

[poopbox]

Ya Murray should have done more with this.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bryn-forbes-and-patty-mills-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-talk-against-the-picture-id901301050?s=594x594

Patty hit the side of the backboard TWICE tonight for the Nets:lol

[offset formation]

I think Sochan gives the game plan such flexibility on defense which as we all know has been our weakest side on the ball for the last 4 to 5 years or so.

Yes, Tre gives the offense a different factor, and then add in the two wings playing near all-star level ball and you get this success

[rankingtear]

Sochan and third year Devin + Tre.

[Fusternino]

From the box scores, Pop has stopped playing KJ and McBuckets from playing alongside each other, forcing KJ to guard the opposing 4? That should do the trick, as everyone knew last year . . .

[kht]

If we had DJ and signed Lavine outright, or did an Ayton/Poetl swap, we'd be competing for a top 4 seed.

[RC_Drunkford]

No, Spurs would be even better with DJ. People forget that the Spurs were playing 0.500 ball after the White trade last season. As previous posters said the main reasons are that we now have 2 legit PFs in the rotation, Sochan and Roby, allowing for Keldon to play the 3, Devin to play the 2 and not having to start McDermott. Keldon and Devin made the leap and KJ losing 20 pounds has further improved his defense. Also no Lonnie Walker anymore. Spurs with DJ at PG would be a playoff team without a doubt, which was the reason why I was pissed about the trade.

[tmtcsc]

Murray wasn't holding us back, he just wasn't taking the team anywhere. Just a lot of talk and selfies. I'm glad he, White and Lonnie are gone. This team can finally form a new, post-nephew identity. The stink from their shit is fading. It's strange to see how well they played compared to the opening night home disaster. It will be interesting to see who the real Spurs are.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

If Dejounte was still in San Antonio the team could be legit. Looks like that trade will age poorly. Look at how involved Sochan was on offense today. Dont you think he'd get more of those open looks with Dejounte feeding him the ball?

Vassell and KJ were trending this way for a while. To say your all-star PG would have blocked their development is a bit puzzling. He doesnt seem to be stopping Trae Young or John Collins at all.

[mo7888]

This team wouldn't be playing like this with DJ here...the spacing wouldn't be there...the ball movement wouldn't be there...so these guys wouldn't be developing like they are... DJ pounding the air out of the ball and playing iso as the shot clock runs down wouldn't be fun to watch either...

That's trade is going to age wonderfully..

[Chinook]

If Dejounte was still in San Antonio the team could be legit. Looks like that trade will age poorly. Look at how involved Sochan was on offense today. Dont you think he'd get more of those open looks with Dejounte feeding him the ball?

Vassell and KJ were trending this way for a while. To say your all-star PG would have blocked their development is a bit puzzling. He doesnt seem to be stopping Trae Young or John Collins at all.

Why do just assume Murray would be giving Sochan better looks? He gets those looks due to good movement on offense, from a number of players passing him the ball. Thinking that Murray dominating the ball would result in only better looks is weird. As a relative non-shooter playing with Poeltl, Sochan wouldn't have nearly the space that he does when the guys threatening the paint are all shooting threats. Vassell and Johnson have been improving for a while, but just like Murray benefitted from DeRozan leaving, those guys benefitted from being able to control the ball more, which wasn't likely to happen with Murray in SA. In Atlanta, Murray benefits from being the second- or third-best player on any given night. Sometimes, he'll legit be the best player. There is long-term worry that he'll try to ALWAYS be the best player, but there's a much better chance that he stays within the offense on a team with an established star PG and with a successful established PF than there would've been on the Spurs with guys who are younger and less developed with him.

I think if Murray were on the team, he'd have more assists than Jones does but that the team would have the same or fewer assists than they do now. I also think the team would've been 1-3 or 2-2. We likely aren't talking about Vassell getting MIP or Sochan even being a starter.

[John B]

I agree a lot with the OP. DJM I see was more about himself, the way he talks and a stat padder suspect. He’s all about himself, prove himself, growing up from the street, escaping. I’m happy he found his way in the NBA, but too much chip for me and too volatile as he will implode when cornered likeva stray dog. That squable with Pop comes to mind, and turned me off against him. I don’t think he got even a midge of what Tony got. But you didn’t see Tony not even raised an eyebrow. Fuck DJM and his passive/aggressive attitude, instagram, media craving, ball hog. His iso style would slow down the pace and allowed defender to catch up. His pouting and fake submission would confuse the young players. Spurs are better off without that punk.

[Fireball]

Look what it does for you actually having two young ACTUAL power forwards ...

[KobesAchilles]

I agree that having 2 PFs helps the team a lot. I am not saying otherwise. But I don’t think the ball movement would be the same nor the free flowing offense where everybody moves. Our starting PG is averaging 4 assists a game and yet our assists as a team are simply amazing. DJ would take away from that. Also I don’t believe that Vassell would look this good with DJ. They are going to struggle of course and there will be times where we need iso ball dribble dribble that DJ does but man I like this team better without IB.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I agree that having 2 PFs helps the team a lot. I am not saying otherwise. But I don’t think the ball movement would be the same nor the free flowing offense where everybody moves. Our starting PG is averaging 4 assists a game and yet our assists as a team are simply amazing. DJ would take away from that. Also I don’t believe that Vassell would look this good with DJ. They are going to struggle of course and there will be times where we need iso ball dribble dribble that DJ does but man I like this team better without IB.
Tre started 11 games last season and has 7.6 AST

[BillMc]

I always thought that DJ was sort of Westbrook-ish. Nice motor, nice athleticism, got the stats, but didn't really understand the game well enough or have the decision-making ability for a point guard that really aided his teammates.

[Chinook]

I always thought that DJ was sort of Westbrook-ish. Nice motor, nice athleticism, got the stats, but didn't really understand the game well enough or have the decision-making ability for a point guard that really aided his teammates.

PGs aren't supposed to average triple-doubles. I'm actually becoming of the mind that no player should.

[tim_duncan_fan]

PGs aren't supposed to average triple-doubles. I'm actually becoming of the mind that no player should.

Yeah, all it means is that one or two people aren't doing their jobs for whatever reason.

[SpurSpike]

Tre being a true point guard is running the team better than Dj did. Dj was like a mini derozan his last year here, doing a bit of everything. Dj is more a shooting guard than a point.

[Cabrito]

Murray reminds me a lot of Jamal Crawford, who was a point guard when he got drafted. Similar build and from the same area growing up. I have to give Murray credit that he developed point guard skills through hard work and practice. He was a tunnel visioned turnover machine his first couple of years. Murray still hasn’t reached his ceiling, it will be interesting to see if he reaches it.

[rjv]

PGs aren't supposed to average triple-doubles. I'm actually becoming of the mind that no player should.

maybe a big-as in points, blocks and rebounds (but that isn't a reasonable triple double so it's a moot point).

[couchman]

Everyone is wildly overestimating how good our team and players are after an unexpectedly hot start.
I think our young guys will develop faster with DJM gone because they will get more opportunities.

[The Truth #6]

I’m not sad that DJ is gone. We’re finally developing a true team approach. It has a ceiling without a star but I’m enjoying it for now. Yes, we need a star but it brings problems too. I guess the best way to put it is, the camaraderie and lack of stupid drama is really refreshing.

[John B]

PGs aren't supposed to average triple-doubles. I'm actually becoming of the mind that no player should.

Magic and Oscar Robertson were among the great and happened to big PG’s. I don’t mind them having triple-doubles as long as it’s in the flow of the game. I didn’tbget to see OR, but Magic’s Showtime was my favorite as he distributed and made everybody involved. He happened to be tall so he rim-run and also scored when the situation dictated him. You never thought he was trying to pad his stats (I didn’t even think that was a big case then). But Westbrook it was obvious he was stats padding, and I suspect DJM was also. There’s something about his character, whether he was coming from a bad family or the street, that he seemed to always had a chip and wanted to prove himself. It’s just how I see him. I’m happy that he found success in the NBA, but he strikes me as someone who is for himself, not unselfish like Manu, and not even as an alpha like Tony who carried his national team to championships. No not Instagram Baller.

[Leetonidas]

I think it's way too early to making these judgments after 4 games, especially considering we were destroyed from beginning to end in one and two others they almost collapsed in epic fashion in the 4th. Imho

[Dejounte]

I think it's way too early to making these judgments after 4 games, especially considering we were destroyed from beginning to end in one and two others they almost collapsed in epic fashion in the 4th. Imho

Lol people want to act sensible when things aren’t going their way but after game 1 happened, they acted like that was all the evidence they needed. Not directed towards you specifically, just saying I’ve been noticing these types of posts.

I bet you if the Spurs lose game 5, people who said four games isn’t enough will say that five games is enough :lmao

[scott]

A way too early, post-tank modernist view of things:

Let's say come January we are in the 5th seed, and things appear far less fluky than they do now...

We're sitting on first rounders and swaps from CHA, CHI, and ATL. Could we be buyers?

[Seventyniner]

I bet you if the Spurs lose game 5, people who said four games isn’t enough will say that five games is enough :lmao

Not just that, they will say that the fifth game outweighs the first four.

If anything this next game should be less indicative of team strength, no matter how well or poorly the Spurs play, because it will be the first one where a key player is out.

[Leetonidas]

Lol people want to act sensible when things aren’t going their way but after game 1 happened, they acted like that was all the evidence they needed. Not directed towards you specifically, just saying I’ve been noticing these types of posts.

I bet you if the Spurs lose game 5, people who said four games isn’t enough will say that five games is enough :lmao

I think you take game thread comments too seriously bro

[DAF86]

A way too early, post-tank modernist view of things:

Let's say come January we are in the 5th seed, and things appear far less fluky than they do now...

We're sitting on first rounders and swaps from CHA, CHI, and ATL. Could we be buyers?

I don't see anything out there worth buying, tbh. The only way I'm trading away first rounders is if we really surpass expectations and it seems like we are a go to guy away and Durant makes himself available again.

[scott]

I don't see anything out there worth buying, tbh. The only way I'm trading away first rounders is if we really surpass expectations and it seems like we are a go to guy away and Durant makes himself available again.

In the entire league?!? In all seriousness... players unexpectedly move sometimes (Halliburton last year comes to mind)

[Chinook]

A way too early, post-tank modernist view of things:

Let's say come January we are in the 5th seed, and things appear far less fluky than they do now...

We're sitting on first rounders and swaps from CHA, CHI, and ATL. Could we be buyers?

There's actually a thread still on the main page touching on this: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300941&p=10820125#post10820125

I do think the Spurs could be sneaky buyers under the right circumstances. They can take back a good player on an undesirable contract or even use some of their spare assets. I wouldn't trade the ATL picks for anything but a star, and the Chicago pick shouldn't be on the table for most things. But seconds, the Charlotte pick or even a well-protected pick from the Spurs? Maybe. The team doesn't need a PG to just exist, but if they were trying to take a step forward, a good young PG could work. They could also use a legit sixth-man if Primo isn't one of the reasons the Spurs are in that position.

[scott]

There's actually a thread still on the main page touching on this: https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300941&p=10820125#post10820125

I do think the Spurs could be sneaky buyers under the right circumstances. They can take back a good player on an undesirable contract or even use some of their spare assets. I wouldn't trade the ATL picks for anything but a star, and the Chicago pick shouldn't be on the table for most things. But seconds, the Charlotte pick or even a well-protected pick from the Spurs? Maybe. The team doesn't need a PG to just exist, but if they were trying to take a step forward, a good young PG could work. They could also use a legit sixth-man if Primo isn't one of the reasons the Spurs are in that position.

Thanks for the link. Love threads like this simply as a brain exercise, not that I think it will actually happen (though the brain exercise thread I started last year, "what would it take to trade DJM", turned out to be quite prescient.

[mystargtr34]

The Spurs should only buy something that makes them legit contenders or gives them a path to contendership. Look at the champs of the last 10 years. It’s only been these guys that have lead teams to championships.

Steph
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Durant

What’s out there that elevates the Spurs to contender status? There’s only a few gettable guys that do that. Durant is the most gettable. Luka and Jokic ain’t going anywhere, same with Lebron.

[scott]

The Spurs should only buy something that makes them legit contenders or gives them a path to contendership. Look at the champs of the last 10 years. It’s only been these guys that have lead teams to championships.

Steph
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Durant

What’s out there that elevates the Spurs to contender status? There’s only a few gettable guys that do that. Durant is the most gettable. Luka and Jokic ain’t going anywhere, same with Lebron.

While that's true, you also aren't getting one of those guys with a mid-first round pick (like CHA or CHI's). Point being, we have the ability to upgrade the roster while also not completely ruining our shot at a generational talent if it comes to pass via some lottery luck on our own picks or ATL's.

I hate the idea of we shouldn't do anything to elevate the roster unless it is for a top 5-10 player in the league, and that since we can't win without them, we should otherwise just be tanking. The extreme binary "contend or tank" model just ain't that fun.

[John B]

The Spurs should only buy something that makes them legit contenders or gives them a path to contendership. Look at the champs of the last 10 years. It’s only been these guys that have lead teams to championships.

Steph
Giannis
LeBron
Kawhi
Durant

What’s out there that elevates the Spurs to contender status? There’s only a few gettable guys that do that. Durant is the most gettable. Luka and Jokic ain’t going anywhere, same with Lebron.

I thought following the Spurs for so long, people would already know… Spurs are not attracting any of those Tier 1 players ever.. The only way the Spurs get a franchise player is through draft. Possibly a disgruntled Tier 1 that would demand multiple unprotected FRP’s in return. But I doubt PATFO would do and gamble its long term future who relies heavily on draft. The way I see it, the Spurs can replicate the Beautiful Game with 2 or 3 AS caliber players, and a bunch of solid unselfish players. It requires a strong synergy through multiple years of experience. I think if Keldon/Devin/Sochan could turn into AS caliber, then a solid number of role players of Tre/Primo/Brahnam/Wesley. I sincerely believe it’s possible for the current roster to get there given they all improve. 2013-14 Beautiful Game didn’t really have a Tier 1 player. The Big 3 were all if not nearing past their prime. Kawhi was a budding star but still not as dominant as he is now. But they went b2b in the Finals almost beating prime LeBron and Banana Boat twice. But then again, Spurs get lucky and draft either Victor or Scoot, then it expedite the rebuild.

[tbdog]

We have had 4 games. 1 was close against sixers and we got a run to close them out.

2 of them we had huge leads and could not put them away. Murray was pretty good in the 4th. When games become close again, I feel our youngsters will struggle.

[Atl Spur]

We have had 4 games. 1 was close against sixers and we got a run to close them out.

2 of them we had huge leads and could not put them away. Murray was pretty good in the 4th. When games become close again, I feel our youngsters will struggle.

As they should……..again, wins are less important than development. Our team is young but at least we see promise; enjoy the process big dawg!

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

re-sign kawhi!

[John B]

We have had 4 games. 1 was close against sixers and we got a run to close them out.

2 of them we had huge leads and could not put them away. Murray was pretty good in the 4th. When games become close again, I feel our youngsters will struggle.


You know Pop is still teaching when he left Primo in there while TWolves were making their come back. And only put Tre back but not until Primo had some exposures on how to weather a storm. I’m sure Pop could care less about the record. This season is about teaching, and if they win games then he’s getting through them. :toast

[MultiTroll]

I agree a lot with the OP. DJM I see was more about himself, the way he talks and a stat padder suspect. He’s all about himself, prove himself, growing up from the street, escaping. I’m happy he found his way in the NBA, but too much chip for me and too volatile as he will implode when cornered likeva stray dog. That squable with Pop comes to mind, and turned me off against him. I don’t think he got even a midge of what Tony got. But you didn’t see Tony not even raised an eyebrow. Fuck DJM and his passive/aggressive attitude, instagram, media craving, ball hog. His iso style would slow down the pace and allowed defender to catch up. His pouting and fake submission would confuse the young players. Spurs are better off without that punk.
Ya Poor Tony.

Had to try to produce with teamates of Timmy Dunkar, GNob, DRob, Robert Horry, Bowen defending the arc. Steve Kerr bailing his ass out big time in the playoffs.

Meanwhile DJ Murray had....do i really have to post the Bryn Bryn n Paddy Mills picture again?

Apples and oranges.

[Chinook]

I'll look to make a thread about this once a legit sample size comes in and if this still holds up, but Johnson is currently having his worst defensive year -- which is impressive because he's been a bad defender his whole career. A lot of people seem to think Keldon is playing his "natural position" and showing success, but that's not really the case. It's very true that going from McDermott next to him and instead having legit size, not having Walker and Forbes and Eubanks all help. But he's grading out worse than Walker last year so far. Walker this year is grading out significantly better defensively. Mind you, Lonnie's not good still, but Johnson is just that bad. It's not clear if Johnson at SF is actually better than Johnson at PF, but it's obvious that Sochan at PF is better than McDermott at SF.

Keldon's on-off is amazing right now, so it's not far to call him a net-negative player. But in a lot of net stats, he's a clear negative despite his raw numbers. This isn't to say him playing SF has been bad for him personally -- he's always been a net-negative. The hope is that like Murray he just figures it out one year and becomes a huge net-positive. I just think it's something to monitor, because we might want to be more skeptical as to what he's doing. Vassell doesn't warrant the same skepticism right now. He's showing improved net stats, to the point that he's neutral or better in everything but on-off. He's a negative there, but it sort of makes sense since his backup has been insane this year too.

I'm curious to see how badly Vassell's absence affects the team. If these stats are indicative, the team should really struggle in Devin's absence in a way they wouldn't've in Johnson's absence. If on-off is the more indicative stat, then Primo getting a bigger role in place of Vassell might improve the team's performance. I don't believe it will.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

re-sign kawhi!

His per minute salary must be amazing these days!

[MultiTroll]

His per minute salary must be amazing these days!
:lol
What did / does Balmer do for his money.
Thought i read he is the richest NBA owner.

[John B]

:lol
What did / does Balmer do for his money.
Thought i read he is the richest NBA owner.

He sells Kawhi drama, beats Netflix :wakeup

The guy was with Bill Gates in the early years of Microsoft, sold part of his stocks for almost a billion dollars. Now 9th richest man. Too bad he can’t afford :lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2: