Grades: Spurs @ Timberwolves - Oct. 24, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-timberwolves-grades-4/

WTF :lmao

[mystargtr34]

:lmao

[heyheymymy]

lots of alley oops tonight

[Spursfanfromafar]

Wow. At the worst...the Spurs can wiggle out some FRPs from Josh Richardson and Poeltl for sure now.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. That was something. It was like watching beautiful game, but wait… no Manu, Bobo, Splitter? Instead are these 22yrs old passing the ball with gusto finding cutting men and dishing to open, better shots. I’m glad they’re finding W’s when playing this way. It makes Pop’s teachings more believable who most players maybe too young during Spurs golden era. Yes, listening to this gray-haired man really makes sense. They’re winning!

Vassell has found his rythm, and he knows he can score on anybody. He is getting more confident and assertive by the game. He was playing the best player out there, and the Win should just fortify that self-confidence. I want him to get even more stronger, attack the rim more and get to the finish line.

Tre looks like a a true starting PG out there. He knows his teammates and he would find them. Him and Vassell flirted with triple-doubles tonight.

Poeltl, another big game. I’m liking Poeltl’s aggressiveness. He knows the team needs him to score and he’s not shying away from taking those shots. Great job with a double-double.

At times I see Primo light-footed, moving well. Then he makes some dribble-behind dumb mistake. I thought Pop kept him too long when TWolves were making a run. I guess it’s a learning process for Primo not to get rattled on those situations.

Keldon had a quiet 18 pts, but I guess I’m starting to expect that much production from him, which is good.

Zollins, Roby played well. Sochan was brilliant out there defending, being opportunistic with the basket. His defense reminds me of Kawhi and Draymond, that festy, you know that LeBron looked on Kawhi when he entered. You don’t want this rookie guarding you. And yeah, he’s just a 19 year old rookie.

Great stuff :bobo

[poopbox]

I don't want to start believing :cry

[Spurs Homer]

Most fun game to watch in years…

i found myself excited at watching a spurs game- and that has been missing for a long time…

[offset formation]

Perfect time to trade for Westbrook tbh. Might be our last best hope to tank and get some assets aling the way.

[Ice009]

Wow. At the worst...the Spurs can wiggle out some FRPs from Josh Richardson and Poeltl for sure now.

I think the Spurs were right not to trade away Jakob and Josh Richardson yet. I wonder what the Spurs can get for Jakob as IMO he outplayed Rudy Gobert tonight and Utah got a huge haul for him. How do you guys rate Jakob against Gobert as a player? I don't think he's better, but he's in the conversation with him IMO.

The play-in game last season showed me that Vassell has the mental toughness to excel, but wasn't sure about the skill set. Great to see him playing this well after a bad first game. Great bounce back and also shows mental toughness on his part to shake it off. Looks like he's worked his ass off in the off-season. Very happy for him. I hope he gets even better as the season goes on.
I really like the way Tre is playing too. Seems to be a great leader/PG for the team so far. Keldon's weight loss also looks great to start the season. He didn't have his best game, but still attacked.

[Mr. Body]

I wonder if they had in mind the shellacking at the end of the season when the Wolves spammed Anthony Edwards to get him that dubious 50.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I think the Spurs were right not to trade away Jakob and Josh Richardson yet. I wonder what the Spurs can get for Jakob as IMO he outplayed Rudy Gobert tonight and Utah got a huge haul for him. How do you guys rate Jakob against Gobert as a player? I don't think he's better, but he's in the conversation with him IMO.

The play-in game last season showed me that Vassell has the mental toughness to excel, but wasn't sure about the skill set. Great to see him playing this well after a bad first game. Great bounce back and also shows mental toughness on his part to shake it off. Looks like he's worked his ass off in the off-season. Very happy for him. I hope he gets even better as the season goes on.
I really like the way Tre is playing too. Seems to be a great leader/PG for the team so far. Keldon's weight loss also looks great to start the season. He didn't have his best game, but still attacked.

I have been saying that Poeltl is among the best centers in the league for quite some time now. And the Spurs got him on a best bargain contract. As much as I would want to get first round picks and hopefully a lottery one as early as possible (2023 would be ideal. Let's say Charlotte taking its 2023 lottery protection out and a 2025 FRP)...the Spurs could possibly keep Poeltl next season too if they don't land Wemby.

[Dejounte]

No individual player is playing out of their mind.

I repeat: no individual player is playing out of their mind.

When people say, “oh, they’ll come back down to earth” or “teams are getting caught off guard”… that doesn’t make sense to me. Why? Because:

1. What do opposing teams add to their scouting report that they don’t already do? There’s no one player that the offense heavily relies on. Our top two scorers, KJ and DV, don’t have a lot of ball usage. If you double team one of them, there will be other options on offense.

2. Unless there is a total collapse in coaching or the team as a whole gets their collective BBall IQ zapped, it is almost impossible for them to drop their performance level to a bottom 5 team. This isn’t a team that looks like an unorganized, pickup basketball mess. They will win as a team, and they will lose as a team. There will be losses, and those losses will come as a result of inexperience or at the hands of a far superior high IQ team (such as the Warriors). This isn’t a team that’s winning with a hot hand like Scary Terry on Charlotte. It’s different.

3. I dare say that we’ve yet seen the best from this team. People forget that these guys only begun playing with each other in these rotations and that they’re young and still learning basketball. Guess what? Every day you practice any one skill, you get better. Every day you put in the gym, you get stronger. There is still way more upside to be shown than what we’ve seen already. Sochan could further wow us by him learning where his spots are and adding even more offense to our starting line up.

[heyheymymy]

as usual all great points DJ

you can't just shut down one guy here. Spurs system is like rows of sharks teeth, one goes out and the next one comes in right behind it.

[heyheymymy]

Team looks better without Murray plus the haul of picks and clearing salary wow

I saw a Hawks box score and his line looked good that night, fwiw. Just a bad fit and if he was a knucklehead in the locker room it's even more wise of a move.

[ragas]

I think the Spurs were right not to trade away Jakob and Josh Richardson yet. I wonder what the Spurs can get for Jakob as IMO he outplayed Rudy Gobert tonight and Utah got a huge haul for him. How do you guys rate Jakob against Gobert as a player? I don't think he's better, but he's in the conversation with him IMO.

Let's not get wild. Next game will show what's the difference. Gobert's gonna be motivated. If Jakob can keep him in check again, then his value will definitely increase. But I don't think that the Spurs can get more than 2 firsts - but they have good arguments then for demanding 2 firsts. If I were the Spurs I would make him a solid offer to keep him on the roster.

[tmtcsc]

I think the best part of this season will be not having to watch the losers the Spurs trotted out in past years. I couldn't stomach watching Brynn Forbest, the failed, inconsistent likes of Walker IV and D. White or the delusional, big-mouthed Instagram Baller. Just disappointment after disappointment. Bring on the losses, I don't mind. They'll be gaining experience while headed in the right direction. Wins over Demar Derozan's Bulls, nephew's Clippers & bitch-ass's Hawks would be great.

[RC_Drunkford]

Love to see them play. This is what people been talking about when it comes to developing players in a winning environment. They learn how to execute and pick up the right habits. With that being said we still need to tank. The next game will be very telling, but I don't think this is sustainable, especially once teams have some scouting tape and know they can go zone on the starters.

[Dejounte]

Meanwhile…

https://twitter.com/thehoopcentral/status/1584740268884242432?s=

https://i.imgur.com/jmNKZex.png

:lmao :lmao

from a Rockets fan who was there live:

”Not sure if you guys saw it but there is a bit more to the altercation. Not sure this first part was in any of the videos. I saw it live and there were some additional clues in the previous bench shot.

Looks like Green walks over to JSJ and there are clearly talking about rotations or positions because you see the Green making movement hand gestures. He is leaning over close to JSJs face but thats probably just so they can hear one another. Looks like Green is instructing JSJ on how to move, but that is a guess. JSJ responds to Green with his own gestures and it doesn't look hostile. Then you see KMJ get visibly animated at JSJ, like he was frustrated with what he said.

Camera cuts away to Gordon for 10 or so seconds, then goes back to JSJ standing up in confrontation mode.”

[rankingtear]

^ HOU roster is too young without a clear hierarchy. They also don't value character that much in player evaluation. The roster is built with analytics. MEM is good cause they value both.

[Dejounte]

^ HOU roster is too young without a clear hierarchy. They also don't value character that much in player evaluation. The roster is built with analytics. MEM is good cause they value both.

Yeah, I mean, I would be pissed off too if a player like Jalen Green, who is notorious for taking ill advised shots and barely plays team ball, is trying to tell me how to do something.

But to lose your cool like this when you’ve only played 3-4 regular season games? Come on now.

[The Truth #6]

The opening night loss perhaps really motivated the team. But like the announcers commented, other teams haven’t learned to pressure the Spurs. That will come soon I imagine and we’ll see how they respond. It might not change anything, but that’s something I’m going to look for.

But big picture it’s nice too see the team play so democratically I guess is the word. No star to dominate the offense is not sustainable but for last night a beautiful glimpse into how the game can still be played.

We could still fall apart, but without a trade, I don’t see us bottom 3.

[Dejounte]

Here’s another thought:

People are saying opposing teams will adjust their game plan against the Spurs’ offense and apply more pressure or do zone—

But how do you game plan against defense?

it’s the side of basketball you can hardly game plan against. If the Spurs are defending your best player well, do you stop passing to your best player as the adjustment? If the Spurs are defending your perimeter players really well, do you try to score inside only? Good luck with that— even if the Spurs cool down from 3, that means you have to count on both your offense and defense to be functioning at a high level.

My point is this: if the Spurs keep playing the level of defense they’ve been playing, it will always keep them in these games. And they have been playing elite defense. Not saying it will be like that in every game, but so far they’re showing they’re capable.

[Atl Spur]

The standard here is no one person is bigger than the team….. it reminds me of the military in that way! Respect your peers and opponents. Pop created and upholds that standard organization wide!! There’s nothing wrong with structure in any era.

[ragas]

The standard here is no one person is bigger than the team….. it reminds me of the military in that way! Respect your peers and opponents. Pop created and upholds that standard organization wide!! There’s nothing wrong with structure in any era.

The Redeem Spurs

[The Truth #6]

I think motivation and energy levels will naturally wax and wane. But as long as hero ball from preseason doesn’t return they should at least be competitive and make things interesting. They will have some fourth quarter collapses that will cost them. But big picture they have figured out team dynamics early and as long as they keep sharing and moving, it will be fun.

[Atl Spur]

This season is not about win / losses as much as it is about development. So try not to ride that roller coaster of emotion and just enjoy pieces we are cultivating into the next generation of winners!

[lefty]

“Jerry, I can’t get fired”

[Dejounte]

I think motivation and energy levels will naturally wax and wane.

Not with Keldon on the team ;) (well, apparently we have two Keldons now according to Pop)

[The Truth #6]

Not with Keldon on the team ;) (well, apparently we have two Keldons now according to Pop)

It’s a fair point. Keldon and Sochan are consistently upbeat. McBuckets, for all the shit he gets, often from me, plays fast and that helps our new style of play. Vassel seems pumped and has backed away from forcing things. Everyone gets touches so that naturally gets some motivation up.

But it’s a long season and every team has challenges.

Personally, I hope they play amazing for the first 3 quarters and then collapse more often than not in the fourth quarter so we can get losses. I definitely want to see the team continue to develop and improve. And, we’re not gonna be an embarrassing tanking team like others will be, and will not be in the bottom four, I’m already accepting that.

[The Truth #6]

Random unrelated thoughts:

Pop should get a lot of credit for his coaching to start the season, but he won't.

The team seems to struggle in the 4th when things get tight and they seem to only know how to play fast. IF Keldon can learn to become an iso scorer and slow the game down, that would be incredible, and could be something he develops next year. But I still want us to lose games while playing an exciting game, so hopefully our 4th quarter struggles continue, I hate to say.

The team does better with Tre running the point. Tre is having a quiet "breakout", at least for a second rounder.

Primo does best playing in the flow of the offense and his 3p shot is money. He needs to get more of those touches to help ground him. I think it's great he's trying to learn new skills, but if it precludes him from also playing to his strengths, then I think that is a problem, to some degree.

Sochan may be "just a glue guy now", but his energy and defense and bbiq is special. I never disliked him, but I'm liking him a lot more in this team oriented offense we are doing.

I haven't seen the numbers, but the eye test suggests our team defense is doing pretty well, at least in stretches, and definitely racking up steals. It's chaotic and definitely not boring. The Spurs are playing some of the most exciting ball in the league and no one will probably notice.

[rjv]

i still think that the spurs will regress to the mean eventually but one thing for sure that the oddsmakers got wrong in projecting the spurs records is how hard a pop coached team will play. that the spurs are moving the ball as crisply as they are is surprising though. and teams better be ready to run when they play the spurs.

[Fireball]

I hate it when we have big leads in the 4th and then Sean says to calm it down and run the clock down. The Spurs did not get the lead that way and will rarely have 20+ points leads in the 4th to make that work in the future.

[rjv]

Meanwhile…

https://twitter.com/thehoopcentral/status/1584740268884242432?s=

https://i.imgur.com/jmNKZex.png

:lmao :lmao

from a Rockets fan who was there live:

”Not sure if you guys saw it but there is a bit more to the altercation. Not sure this first part was in any of the videos. I saw it live and there were some additional clues in the previous bench shot.

Looks like Green walks over to JSJ and there are clearly talking about rotations or positions because you see the Green making movement hand gestures. He is leaning over close to JSJs face but thats probably just so they can hear one another. Looks like Green is instructing JSJ on how to move, but that is a guess. JSJ responds to Green with his own gestures and it doesn't look hostile. Then you see KMJ get visibly animated at JSJ, like he was frustrated with what he said.

Camera cuts away to Gordon for 10 or so seconds, then goes back to JSJ standing up in confrontation mode.”

boban: "You want me to take care of this? Because I can squash him."

[Russ]

This is exactly the kind of team (win or lose) Pop has been yearning for.

Does he retire or does he stick around now?

[bigfan]

Thanks for posting; I am quite surprised at this point tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Meanwhile…

https://twitter.com/thehoopcentral/status/1584740268884242432?s=

https://i.imgur.com/jmNKZex.png

:lmao :lmao

from a Rockets fan who was there live:

”Not sure if you guys saw it but there is a bit more to the altercation. Not sure this first part was in any of the videos. I saw it live and there were some additional clues in the previous bench shot.

Looks like Green walks over to JSJ and there are clearly talking about rotations or positions because you see the Green making movement hand gestures. He is leaning over close to JSJs face but thats probably just so they can hear one another. Looks like Green is instructing JSJ on how to move, but that is a guess. JSJ responds to Green with his own gestures and it doesn't look hostile. Then you see KMJ get visibly animated at JSJ, like he was frustrated with what he said.

Camera cuts away to Gordon for 10 or so seconds, then goes back to JSJ standing up in confrontation mode.”

Eric Gordon looks like a guy who wants out of there and on a real team. Houston has talent but no emotional core. If this keeps going on, you've got some ruined players and it's not good that your leadership appears to be KPJ and Jalen Green right now.

[BillMc]

This is exactly the kind of team (win or lose) Pop has been yearning for.

Does he retire or does he stick around now?

Hope he sticks around. He'll be good for the young guys.

[emanueldavidginobili]

For all the tank commanders here the 2013-14 76ers started the season 3-0 and finished the season 19-63 and went on to draft Joel Embiid.

[wildbill2u]

Pop is going to prove that he really is one of the great coaches ever in this league this year. He has a team with NO superstars but with the energy of youth and some skills. Back to the beautiful game I hope. I will be rooting for them every game and to Hell with you "fans" that want to see them lose. It would be such a shame to see their joy in playing be dulled by some perceived goal of attaining a #1 pick. You could ruin these guys for a career if you take their mojo away from them.

[Seventyniner]

boban: "You want me to take care of this? Because I can squash him."

wtf is that guy on the left clapping for :lol

[rjv]

For all the tank commanders here the 2013-14 76ers started the season 3-0 and finished the season 19-63 and went on to draft Joel Embiid.

spurs also won 7 in a row and 9 out of 10 in the 86-87 season, which they finished with a 28-54 record-and wound up winning the lottery (and the rights to robinson).

[Atl Spur]

Primo is supposed to be making these mistakes now in year 2 with an expanded role etc…… the spurs are playing the long game; if this occurring in year 4 we may have to lower our expectations! I love seeing Anthony edwards push him around a little ( gotta toughen up to wear the crown ). Every good one goes through it!

[GreekSpursfan]

It's been some time since i posted here and i blame my previous phone that i saved my password in for this forum and it broke down, more like destroyed by a car tire(yes it can happen, f my luck). After many tries of passwords i use in other apps i gave up.
Today after doing some cleaning i found a piece of paper that i had some passwords written and i tried them all here and what do you know, it worked.
First off thanks SAGirl for wishing me and my family well in my last post here and second of all, are we good now? I never doubted Pop tbh and never will even if this is a fluke and won't last. Up until today we're still the team that played the best brand of bball in the NBA(2014) and thats very difficult to change so Pop will always be the best to me(obviously having so many good passers helped). I really really hope it lasts and why not damnit.:flag::flag::flag:

[Mugen]

I'm not worried about the tank at all, it's week 1 tbh :lol

[lefty]

wtf is that guy on the left clapping for :lol
"Come on guys, let's go let's go, come on"

[John B]

boban: "You want me to take care of this? Because I can squash him."

Jabari seems to be a cocky kid who can’t fall in linecasca rookie should. His interview after not getting the #1 overall showed much of that. Eric Gordon seems to want to be out of there. I can’t wait for this “better team in our division” as some would suggest, self implode :lol:lol

[SpurSpike]

I don't want to see any players traded unless we start sucking badly the next 10 games. Would be a huge slap to our players face to trade away good pieces to tank when they are playing good basketball.

[jjspur]

Pop really must have yelled at the players after the Charlotte loss.
That being said, it must have worked, after three straight wins. We underestimated the hornets and the Pacers, Sixers and T-Wolves underestimated us. We won't be great this season, but we won't be 15 wins and under bad. After thinking this was going to be a historically bad season because of tanking, maybe just maybe the team will surprise us with with a few more quality wins like this one. Ok young spurs show us what else you have, make us believe in the beautiful game once again. :clap

[Mr. Body]

Jabari seems to be a cocky kid who can’t fall in linecasca rookie should. His interview after not getting the #1 overall showed much of that. Eric Gordon seems to want to be out of there. I can’t wait for this “better team in our division” as some would suggest, self implode :lol:lol

I don't agree with your assessment at all. Smith was a good teammate at Auburn. It's Jalen Green who has essentially never played organized basketball at near this level and considers himself the cock of the walk. He'll jack shots when triple teamed. The problem is there and KPJ, who is widely understood to be a headcase.

There's a saying that a team can survive one problem player. A team probably won't survive two. And they potentially have three including Tari Eason.

[tbdog]

Felt like 2014 again. Beautiful ball movement and twolves sucking.

[CGD]

The standard here is no one person is bigger than the team….. it reminds me of the military in that way! Respect your peers and opponents. Pop created and upholds that standard organization wide!! There’s nothing wrong with structure in any era.

The CREAM team, as it were

[objective]

Spurs are so much easier to watch without burning minutes on guys like Forbes and Mills. Plus having Keldon at his natural position instead of having to make room for McDermott makes them even more watchable

[emanueldavidginobili]

Sochan was awesome last night. His ability to run the floor and finish was huge. Who’s the last player on the Spurs to have 3 alley oops in a game? LA? Dedmon?

Vassell ability to create for himself is huge.

Tre Jones is a 2nd round pick, he’s exceeding expectations for where he was picked beyond belief.

Jakob is so much better than on paper.

Primo needs to be more aggressive. He also knows the right passes and moves to do but he’s not fully up to NBA speed yet at all.

I trust Keldon to be bring it all 82 games this season.

Roby’s effort is evident.

[venitian navigator]

After the first game I really thought that in players mind the team goal was to lose as many games as possible. But something must have changed their minds... It's been Pop telling them to play up to their strengths, maybe after Silver's private advice? Who knows... But one thing is for sure: playing well could not give you more draft chances, but for sure increase young players confidence and enhance veteran's market value. That said, I'm not that sure that our actual veterans are not in our team's future. I read talking about the the fact they are out of our time line, but if you consider that the only one barely over 30 (apart Dieng) is Mc Dermott I don't see this as a big problem... Expecially considering both him and Richardson (the other "old one", plus Dieng) give our team the outside shooting specialist actually so valuable for any nba team (whatever their age could be).
If I have to take an idea after this few games is that all players on our roster (included the two way players after the recent Bassey acquisition) are in line, for character, skills, mentality, to be a good part of our future... Maybe we still just need a solid first or second playmaker (but Tre Jones is playing very very well and looks completely confident and comfortable in the starting line up). But that's all that is in our control... Because the often mentioned big star you have to absolutely take via draft to build your team around is simply a pipe dream in the sense that actual chances to take him are so small, also in case you finish with the worst nba record, that can't be the season's goal from the starting.