Grades: Spurs vs. Bulls - Oct. 28, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-bulls-grades/

Man, that Primo news tho :wow

[Dejounte]

Anyone catch the moment Wesley was subbed in for the first time and Sochan was standing next to Pop? They were joking around and Pop looks like he’s saying to Sochan, “thanks for calling him down”. Sochan genuinely looked happy for Wesley. Someone should make a clip.

[tbdog]

I spent the game on ST and Twitter. Like, I'm weirdly gutted what happened.

[timvp]

I spent the game on ST and Twitter. Like, I'm weirdly gutted what happened.

Yeah, I couldn't watch that game live. Not sure how they won with that level of distraction, tbh.

[Dejounte]

So our new rotation…

Tre/ Wesley
Vassell/ JRich/ Branham
Keldon/ McDermott/ Roby/ Langford
Sochan/ KBD/ Barlow
Poeltl/ Collins/ Dieng/ Bassey

I’m happy it looks like Blake has that backup role for now. Primo running the bench unit really didn’t look right, IMO. I get that he would’ve improved over the season and/or it was only used for him to develop his skill there but all that doesn’t matter now. We have a real backup point guard now (granted, he is still really raw and could disappoint from time to time).

The next glaring issue these guys have is chemistry. I’ve seen some of the dumbest turnovers these past few games, i.e. a player rolls to the basket waving his hand for the ball only for the passer to turn the ball over because it was a bad look in the first place.

[lefty20]

Loved seeing KJ giving Wesley a long talk at the end of the 3rd Q. Dude's taking this leadership role seriously.

[TDomination]

Winning with the distraction plus no vassell is impressive

i really wish I could feel great about this win but man…

[heyheymymy]

Primo

DNP: Banishment

[sananspursfan21]

The Primo news is completely overshadowing the fact that our guys are 4-2 against mostly quality opponents. It’s a long season but they’re looking like candidates for a play-in spot :wow

[Fireball]

Bulls miss key players as well but still the Spurs should not win these games ... but if they do they should at home!

Nothing to say about Primo. Hope he gets healthy but I have no emotions regarding him getting waived.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Jeremy Sochan is a delight to watch. High basketball IQ. He has a bright future if he gets his jumper right.

[jehawk81]

Jeremy Sochan is a delight to watch. High basketball IQ. He has a bright future if he gets his jumper right.

The way he was handling the ball this game & his smarts had me thinking of Diaw lite

[LongtimeSpursFan]

We need to think of a name for Sochans run to the basket. He’s getting dunks/alleyoops on fastbreaks off a regular basis.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. Is it too early to say this team is legit after winning 3 games against better teams, and the lost to TWolves was not as bad considering the TWolves had to shoot the lights out to win? If the Spurs are legit? Do you see Pop breaking up this group return for draft picks? Or do they continue and maybe hopefully find a caliber player(s) to help? Wow, just wow.

[Leetonidas]

Thanks Timvp. Is it too early to say this team is legit after winning 3 games against better teams, and the lost to TWolves was not as bad considering the TWolves had to shoot the lights out to win? If the Spurs are legit? Do you see Pop breaking up this group return for draft picks? Or do they continue and maybe hopefully find a caliber player(s) to help? Wow, just wow.

Spurs have a pretty tough upcoming schedule in November so we'll find out soon enough if this team is legit solid or if they're just playing over their heads to start the season

[Atl Spur]

Adversity always helps to reveal character or lack there of. I wish any Spurs player success on or off the court! There are some true COWARDS who post here and that’s putting it mildly.

[offset formation]

Primo

DNP: Banishment

Man, no kidding. Banishment isn't even strong enough. More like, Deleted or Scrubbed, or Wiped From Existence.

[offset formation]

Adversity always helps to reveal character or lack there of. I wish any Spurs player success on or off the court! There are some true COWARDS who post here and that’s putting it mildly.

You should write Chinese proverbs for a living.

[Dejounte]

Thanks Timvp. Is it too early to say this team is legit after winning 3 games against better teams, and the lost to TWolves was not as bad considering the TWolves had to shoot the lights out to win? If the Spurs are legit? Do you see Pop breaking up this group return for draft picks? Or do they continue and maybe hopefully find a caliber player(s) to help? Wow, just wow.

Breaking things up is even more less likely now after the Primo news, IMO.

[sananspursfan21]

You should write Chinese proverbs for a living.

ATL Spur going full Confucius over here :lol

[Mr. Body]

The Primo news is completely overshadowing the fact that our guys are 4-2 against mostly quality opponents. It’s a long season but they’re looking like candidates for a play-in spot :wow

If... If they keep playing like this they're a playoff team straight up.

[Mr. Body]

Two things as if it matters

1. The team's state of mind was amazing to see. They could have been obliterated but they quickly showed a lot of spirit and team chemistry. Whether this lasts is another thing.

2. Blake Wesley, again. He came in and immediately whipped a pass from the baseline to the upper wing on the 3-point line. He knew the player was there, but it also showed awareness and vision. His knock at Notre Dame was that he was wild and undisiplined - not so much on defense as on offense. Just all over the place. While I didn't expect him to drive into traffic at every opportunity, he was truly hitting his spots in the system. You could see him thinking through what he had to do - as any rookie would - but I was incredibly impressed, y'all. I knew he had talent, and there were a couple times he obliterated whoever was guarding him. But what I saw was a kid who could grow very quickly once he has the guidance he wasn't able to get in the cursory environment of college. Nothing against Mike Brey, who is a very good coach -- there's just not the opportunity (plus restrictions) to do basketball all the time.

Kudos to Wesley. He's gonna make a lot of mistakes, but I saw a player who knows this, is excited to play, and determined to fit. Once he gets locked down and starts learning where he can freelance, look out. He could be an absolute steal.

[Mugen]

That Primo news was bad enough, them winning just adds to the misery :lol

[Philthemage]

We need to think of a name for Sochans run to the basket. He’s getting dunks/alleyoops on fastbreaks off a regular basis.

The beauty of this is that it sucks defenders into the paint and opens up the floor for the perimeter players leading the break.

[MultiTroll]

Whoever tutored Pop this offseason did a fine job.

He is showing growth in the fundamentals of how to coach a modern NBA team.

[Atl Spur]

ATL Spur going full Confucius over here :lol

Just a tiny bit…… you know I don’t tolerate bitchy boys who type tough!

[lefty]

had me thinking of Diaw lite

Well he is thinner

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Thanks Timvp!

I really like this team. Fun to watch. The 37 assists from such a young group says a lot about the coaching and the philosophy being taught.

Trey is blossoming. I actually thought he played pretty well, and is a true point guard which the Spurs lacked the last couple of years.

Sochan was super impressive as was Wesley. Two great draft picks this past season. Excited to see our third first rounder get some run.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Well he is thinner

Sean was comparing him to Rodman. Maybe he’s the morphing of the two.

[scott]

Blake with the rare A grade while simultaneously posting a -18.

[BackHome]

Anyone catch the moment Wesley was subbed in for the first time and Sochan was standing next to Pop? They were joking around and Pop looks like he’s saying to Sochan, “thanks for calling him down”. Sochan genuinely looked happy for Wesley. Someone should make a clip.

I also liked when he came out and Keldon went out and greeted him and was basically giving him some encouragement - he was getting a lot of support from his fellow players

[BackHome]

Blake with the rare A grade while simultaneously posting a -18.

Yeah we always over react to players play from one game to the next - Be our next Super Star one game and the next is Trade the Bum...lol. For me from the beginning you can tell he definitely has the skills sets to be a VERY good player for us I am hoping he can make the transition to PG but he has a lot of work to do and I don't know if it's fair or benefits him to thrust him into that role on the main team to soon.

I thought Richardson did a lot of good as the backup and Sochan being a point forward definitely helps us - Going forward I would still have Richardson as the primary backup I think he is going to net us a first round pick and then we can start bringing up Blake for more games depending on his play

[scott]

Yeah we always over react to players play from one game to the next - Be our next Super Star one game and the next is Trade the Bum...lol. For me from the beginning you can tell he definitely has the skills sets to be a VERY good player for us I am hoping he can make the transition to PG but he has a lot of work to do and I don't know if it's fair or benefits him to thrust him into that role on the main team to soon.

I thought Richardson did a lot of good as the backup and Sochan being a point forward definitely helps us - Going forward I would still have Richardson as the primary backup I think he is going to net us a first round pick and then we can start bringing up Blake for more games depending on his play

Yeah, don't get me wrong... I'm super pumped for Blake... but seems like maybe we are giving him a little too much credit in his debut. But then again, I'm not as into the advanced metrics as some others.

I do find it curious that Blake is ahead of Bran in breaking into the roster. It was like this in pre-season too. It surprises me because Bran seems to be way further ahead in his development on the offensive end. I do understand that there is more traffic ahead of Bran for his position though.

[Chinook]

Yeah, don't get me wrong... I'm super pumped for Blake... but seems like maybe we are giving him a little too much credit in his debut. But then again, I'm not as into the advanced metrics as some others.

I do find it curious that Blake is ahead of Bran in breaking into the roster. It was like this in pre-season too. It surprises me because Bran seems to be way further ahead in his development on the offensive end. I do understand that there is more traffic ahead of Bran for his position though.

I do think he's more of a guy who did good things rather than a guy who played well. That first stint lasted exactly as long as it needed to for Jones to catch his breath. I wasn't impressed with him as much as I was content. I think he played well enough to where you keep this going for a couple of games before looking to fill that 15th spot with a PG. But I would ultimately fill that spot with a vet PG and not another developmental guy, because the team needs a steady hand at that position. I don't know who's out there at this point, but I'd be okay with the team getting a fringe guy who wasn't able to make a team or paying a decent chunk of change to grab a guy from Europe if they need to. Regardless, I think if the team does want to win games, they'll have to not let PG be a weakness. Richardson and to a lesser extent Roby and Sochan help. But they're a Jones injury away from really struggling on offense, which would be a shame given the pieces they had on that end.

[Chomag]

It's really sad that the Primo drama overshadowed this game because on my second viewing of this game I was blown away at the execution from the team, at many times they made some amazing plays, and the whole team looked in sync with each other.

I really believe this team is only 1 player that can just take over when the need arises and dominate the game to push them thru the playoffs. Keldon is the closest we have to that but a good defense can still slow him down when they crank up the pressure on him..We still need 1 of those super talents that can score the ball and will the team to a win no matter what the opponent's defence is doing.

If we got that 1 player and still have all the same players that are on our current roster I'm telling you the sky is the limit.

Unfortunately that talent is going to have to come from the draft which puts this team in an odd state of being to good to grab a top tier franchise type player from the lottery....it's really going to be difficult no matter what direction that they want to go on.

[RC_Drunkford]

Adversity always helps to reveal character or lack there of. I wish any Spurs player success on or off the court! There are some true COWARDS who post here and that’s putting it mildly.

we see how you are reacting right now when adversity hits :lmao

[Chinook]

Has anyone talked about how Bill probably should've sat out the game? His voice was very grating, and he seemed like he could probably use a bit of a break. Hopefully he's okay and all, but especially seeing as the game was in SA, they probably had an understudy ready to go.

I actually really liked the game. It was nice to see guys find it even while missing Vassell. I'm enjoying how resilient the team is. I don't know that I see a title or anything, but I do think they're good and can have a chance to make a playoff run if everything holds up. They aren't really performing that far beyond their talent. Richardson and maybe Poeltl are the only ones who might be. Speaking of which, I get wanting Wemby, but in the event the Spurs don't get him, I don't see a reason to not keep Poeltl. Dude's been fantastic on both ends.

[lefty]

Sean was comparing him to Rodman. Maybe he’s the morphing of the two.

He really looks like Rodman out there with his 10 and hair

Even his shooting kinda reminds me of Worm’s but smoother of course

[John B]

I don’t know, but I like to keep JRich, Poeltl and even McBuckets. The chemistry and production is seamless. I’d hate for the PATFO to trade them now. Seriously if Spurs could a disgruntled AS caliber, I think this team can contend. Let’s see where they are come trade deadline.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t know, but I like to keep JRich, Poeltl and even McBuckets. The chemistry and production is seamless. I’d hate for the PATFO to trade them now. Seriously if Spurs could a disgruntled AS caliber, I think this team can contend. Let’s see where they are come trade deadline.

lol we had an All-Star on the team, but decided to trade him

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/matthew_tynan/status/1586405844295757824?s=

This is a locker room that doesn’t care they lost a teammate they’ve been with (for some) for a year :lmao

[Chomag]

I don’t know, but I like to keep JRich, Poeltl and even McBuckets. The chemistry and production is seamless. I’d hate for the PATFO to trade them now. Seriously if Spurs could a disgruntled AS caliber, I think this team can contend. Let’s see where they are come trade deadline.

It was hard to get a top free agent to come here even when we were contenders we definitely arnt a better free agent destination now. I'm jot saying it's impossible but betting your chips on that probably has the lowest odds.

[offset formation]

https://twitter.com/matthew_tynan/status/1586405844295757824?s=

This is a locker room that doesn’t care they lost a teammate they’ve been with (for some) for a year :lmao

Probably some resentment Spurs were forcing him as the face of the franchise despite not being amongst the top 7 or 8 guys on the team in talent or production. Probably lots of them felt a bit of, Primo was born on 3rd base.

[BackHome]

I don’t know, but I like to keep JRich, Poeltl and even McBuckets. The chemistry and production is seamless. I’d hate for the PATFO to trade them now. Seriously if Spurs could a disgruntled AS caliber, I think this team can contend. Let’s see where they are come trade deadline.

I love your and Bill positivity on the Spurs it's nice to read your post - But, honestly I am rooting for a TANK yeah sometimes I feel bad for wanting that but I want a return to Championships. I will say that I am really happy with this teams players I think that Keldon, Vessel, Sochan, Poodle, are becoming legit starters and a great building block. I also have high hopes for Blake, and Branham, but we still lacking a true Star. Also, we got legit questions to answer after this year????

Do we re sign Poodle? He has started to grown on me I just wish he could be more aggressive on offense and hit his free throws - But he is durable and you know what your going to get from him every game. If we loose him for nothing that going to hurt more then loosing Primo

Do we re sign Collins - He has shown flashes but is he going to want more money and playing time?

Richardson is someone I think will be moved for a draft pick

Tre - Not sure if he is a free agent but I think he would be a great backup PG but I don't see him as a long term fix for us as a starter - He might change my mind as the season goes..

As far as needs next season well we will definitely need a starting Center if Poodle leaves if he stays then I think we obviously draft best player which could be depending where we draft a PG or Center....I also think we need another sharp shooter but one who can play some good defense. Either way with the right ping pong luck and with the right trade I honestly think we have a legit chance to be a top 5 team in two or three years.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, don't get me wrong... I'm super pumped for Blake... but seems like maybe we are giving him a little too much credit in his debut. But then again, I'm not as into the advanced metrics as some others.

I do find it curious that Blake is ahead of Bran in breaking into the roster. It was like this in pre-season too. It surprises me because Bran seems to be way further ahead in his development on the offensive end. I do understand that there is more traffic ahead of Bran for his position though.

People fixate on +/- at times. Wesley did really well for a debut. Very encouraging. Yes, Wesley was playing because they need a lead guard with Primo gone.

As or Malaki Branham, he has two issues in my eye:

1. He's more of a mid-range scorer who may need the ball in his hands. He needs to learn the sets and how to be a threat, but I don't think this is a huge issue. He has decent percentages from deep in NCAA but his form can be improved.

2. He's a poor defender. This is the big issue. The Spurs are playing great offense, but it's their defense that is key, especially as they're still learning their rotations and pickups. Branham is slow on defense, isn't a natural, and dies on screens. These aren't because he's lazy, but he has a lot to go there.

I do think we'll see Branham sooner rather than later, but Wesley was needed last night and he needs to not kill the D.

[TD 21]

I do think he's more of a guy who did good things rather than a guy who played well. That first stint lasted exactly as long as it needed to for Jones to catch his breath. I wasn't impressed with him as much as I was content. I think he played well enough to where you keep this going for a couple of games before looking to fill that 15th spot with a PG. But I would ultimately fill that spot with a vet PG and not another developmental guy, because the team needs a steady hand at that position. I don't know who's out there at this point, but I'd be okay with the team getting a fringe guy who wasn't able to make a team or paying a decent chunk of change to grab a guy from Europe if they need to. Regardless, I think if the team does want to win games, they'll have to not let PG be a weakness. Richardson and to a lesser extent Roby and Sochan help. But they're a Jones injury away from really struggling on offense, which would be a shame given the pieces they had on that end.

Butler time? Only one year of pro experience, but 22, a combo guard with 3 and D, secondary creation potential.

[John B]

lol we had an All-Star on the team, but decided to trade him

DJM heavy iso does not fit the team, and who knows if he would’ve stunned any of the young guys game, who obviously stepped up their game in the off-season, had he stayed. But that’s for another thread.

[Chinook]

Butler time? Only one year of pro experience, but 22, a combo guard with 3 and D, secondary creation potential.

I'm not too familiar with him. I remember him being talked about. I think either someone with cache gets that 15th spot, or one of the two-ways gets converted so the new PG gets that spot.

[RC_Drunkford]

DJM heavy iso does not fit the team, and who knows if he would’ve stunned any of the young guys game, who obviously stepped up their game in the off-season, had he stayed. But that’s for another thread.

yeah right, 9 Assists per game, Spurs #1 in assists, but now somehow DJ is an iso player :lol The takes of you seat sniffers never surprise me

[DrSteffo]

Very impressive win. Seems like everyone has improved and the game plans are working. I was hard on Collins in a previous post but man he is much better now. I guess we need another PG now so that Wesley is more of an option than the only backup?

[John B]

yeah right, 9 Assists per game, Spurs #1 in assists, but now somehow DJ is an iso player :lol The takes of you seat sniffers never surprise me

Yeah because DJM is a stats padder :lol During the Beautiful Game nobody averaged 9 assists… because the ball moved! It’s team assist vs individual assist.

[TD 21]

I'm not too familiar with him. I remember him being talked about. I think either someone with cache gets that 15th spot, or one of the two-ways gets converted so the new PG gets that spot.

He was thought to be a top 20ish pick in the '21 draft, but fell to 40th due to some heart problem, which apparently later checked out.

Spent last season as a high efficiency/low usage gunner with the Jazz.

Given the options available at this point, I'd rather take a flyer on him than some veteran retread or project.

[Chinook]

He was thought to be a top 20ish pick in the '21 draft, but fell to 40th due to some heart problem, which apparently later checked out.

Spent last season as a high efficiency/low usage gunner with the Jazz.

Given the options available at this point, I'd rather take a flyer on him than some veteran retread or project.

He's a free agent? I did see his stats and they looked good. Figured he'd be on a 17-man roster on some team.

[DPG21920]

Im stunned at how well the offense is holding up. Ya, advanced wise, they are middle of the pack, but the fact that they are closer to 10th best offense than 20th is crazy to me.

They dont have an offensive engine or true creator. The fact that Keldon/Vassell leaped and are legit self creators is massive, but even then its still pretty shocking to me. Especially with Jak/Sochan/Tre starting.

Vassell and Keldon are legit and everything is in place for landing a star to take next step (draft or otherwise)

[DPG21920]

It’s seems pretty damn obvious SA has been shopping Richardson. His value is DEFINITELY as high as it can get IMO - but I wonder if SA will pivot on trading him (and Jak) due to both the start of the season being better than expected + losing Primo where Josh will handle ball more?

I hope they stay the course and move Josh for a first…Jak? Hes good enough to keep unless you get a great offer or he asks out (or for too much money).

[TD 21]

He's a free agent? I did see his stats and they looked good. Figured he'd be on a 17-man roster on some team.

Jazz waived him at the conclusion of the preseason (they are loaded at guard) and he hasn't signed elsewhere yet.

[exstatic]

Has anyone talked about how Bill probably should've sat out the game? His voice was very grating, and he seemed like he could probably use a bit of a break. Hopefully he's okay and all, but especially seeing as the game was in SA, they probably had an understudy ready to go.

I actually really liked the game. It was nice to see guys find it even while missing Vassell. I'm enjoying how resilient the team is. I don't know that I see a title or anything, but I do think they're good and can have a chance to make a playoff run if everything holds up. They aren't really performing that far beyond their talent. Richardson and maybe Poeltl are the only ones who might be. Speaking of which, I get wanting Wemby, but in the event the Spurs don't get him, I don't see a reason to not keep Poeltl. Dude's been fantastic on both ends.

Probably 6-7 years ago, Bill slipped on the ice in Minny, and sustained a substantial concussion. He missed a couple of weeks. Since then, he misses things in the broadcast, wrong player for the play, etc. he was pretty spot on perfect before that happened.

[Chinook]

Jazz waived him at the conclusion of the preseason (they are loaded at guard) and he hasn't signed elsewhere yet.

There's a chance that the Spurs would target such a player and that they'd be appealing for such a target ala Bassey. Their next most likely option is to bring in someone who wants to get back into the league in hopes they play well and have trade later on.

[Chinook]

Probably 6-7 years ago, Bill slipped on the ice in Minny, and sustained a substantial concussion. He missed a couple of weeks. Since then, he misses things in the broadcast, wrong player for the play, etc. he was pretty spot on perfect before that happened.

That's how getting old often works. It's not so much gradual decline as it is chugging along until something acute happens that you never fully recover from, and that starts the downward spiral. I don't think that was what happened this time. He just seemed to have lost his voice. But it was grating to hear.

[RC_Drunkford]

Im stunned at how well the offense is holding up. Ya, advanced wise, they are middle of the pack, but the fact that they are closer to 10th best offense than 20th is crazy to me.

They dont have an offensive engine or true creator. The fact that Keldon/Vassell leaped and are legit self creators is massive, but even then its still pretty shocking to me. Especially with Jak/Sochan/Tre starting.

Vassell and Keldon are legit and everything is in place for landing a star to take next step (draft or otherwise)

I'm still waiting for teams to go zone and dare Tre and Sochan to shoot the 3. That would change things