Grades: Spurs vs. Timberwolves - Oct. 30, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-timberwolves-grades-7/

:danceclub

[tbdog]

I see what you did there with the injury report.

[offset formation]

Love me some Langford

[Chinook]

People forget the passive impact GOAT candidates and HoFers have. They just do things a different way. We all should've remembered how different things were the year Tim left. Pop has that same impact. He's going to leave a massive hole when he's gone. Just like in 2016, the team might not drop off that much in performance. But the little things won't be there. They'll have to build them again, and it'll be a process. Pop was definitely one of the stories. Keldon was the headliner. KBD busting out one of his "legit rotation player" games when the team absolutely needed it was the side story. But Pop's system, and McDermott being unlocked due to Murray being gone are the main takeaway. Just as the Bubble gave us a glimpse into the offense Pop wanted, we're now seeing a more actualized version now that all of the ball-stoppers are finally gone. Johnson is developing into a star that doesn't need to hold the ball. He's actually only middle in the pack on the team in terms of seconds per touch according to NBA.com. Folks thinking this was possible with last year's roster and that the Spurs should've kept their PGs if they weren't tanking, you can see why they had to move on. If they can find more high-impact guys who can fit into this, then they'll take some steps forward.

[Ice009]

Man, loved Romeo Langford's defense tonight. I love how hard he played. Looks like he also has some potential on offense, too. Hopefully he can get even more aggressive on that end. I am so glad the Spurs didn't cut him as we never heard much of him during the preseason.

[lefty20]

KBD was the last man to make the team last year. Same for RL this year. And now both are in the rotation helping us get Ws against, supposed, quality opponents.

Pop gonna Pop, tbh.

[MI21]

Pop is coaching his ass off, time to rest him.

[Cabrito]

Romeo is a lot better than Joe W. Glad they kept him.

[Ice009]

Romeo is a lot better than Joe W. Glad they kept him.

I really wonder if he was in danger of being cut, because it sure seemed like it towards the end of the preseason.

[scott]

I know we're all supposed to be on team tank, but man is this team (and the winning) fun. While we all had some doubts (or were completely skeptical) - I think we all wanted Primo to work out. With him now gone, in many ways I feel like it has freed up the rotation for prospects that either have more potential, are a better fit, or are simply just more exciting to watch. So in that respect, it feels like addition by subtraction.

[Dejounte]

I know we're all supposed to be on team tank, but man is this team (and the winning) fun. While we all had some doubts (or were completely skeptical) - I think we all wanted Primo to work out. With him now gone, in many ways I feel like it has freed up the rotation for prospects that either have more potential, are a better fit, or are simply just more exciting to watch. So in that respect, it feels like addition by subtraction.

The team has been doing the addition by subtraction thing for a while now but people refuse to believe in that concept. They thought we’d be much worse after DeMar left… that didn’t happen. And now, DJ… too early to tell, but it’s looking that way. Not everything should be viewed as binary. Plants grow better when you remove the obstacles that were blocking them from the sun.

[scott]

The team has been doing the addition by subtraction thing for a while now but people refuse to believe in that concept. They thought we’d be much worse after DeMar left… that didn’t happen. And now, DJ… too early to tell, but it’s looking that way. Not everything should be viewed as binary. Plants grow better when you remove the obstacles that were blocking them from the sun.

I think a lot of us had a feeling that Demar may not be a big blow, but many people are probably taken aback by our improvement in the most DJM world. And I'm willing to go out on a limb and say we'd be worse with DJM on this team. The style of play required for him to be the team's lead dog (and I think we can probably agree there is no way he would have let KJ take that spotlight from him as lead dog) just doesn't fit into the beautiful game we are playing now.

I remember in the summer, you (and myself, to a lesser extent) feeling that this team wouldn't be drastically worse in DJM's absence. I'm not sure either of expected us to be playing this much better though. Of course, we have been shooting very well and all of that could turn on a dime.

[mystargtr34]

That ‘chronic exposure, terminal’ had me laughing out loud for 30 seconds. Had to put the phone down and gather myself before continuing.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Dang these Spurs for getting me excited to watch them play.

Another great performance. As much as a high draft pick would be great for the rebuild, winning is even better.

I’m still not flipping my 25 win prediction….yet.

[tbdog]

I know we're all supposed to be on team tank, but man is this team (and the winning) fun. While we all had some doubts (or were completely skeptical) - I think we all wanted Primo to work out. With him now gone, in many ways I feel like it has freed up the rotation for prospects that either have more potential, are a better fit, or are simply just more exciting to watch. So in that respect, it feels like addition by subtraction.

Tbh, primo showed a lot of flashes.

[John B]

Wow just wow. Each player has sold to Pop’s egalitarian basketball, playing hard and they’re seeing the result. I like the game that Langford brought tonight. I hope it continuous. Blake I hope is okay be back soon. Just everything is crazy.

[mystargtr34]

Just watched some of Pop's post game interview and he seemed to be really excited about the young guys. He almost sounded like a fan with excitement and surprise at how well the young guys were playing as a team and also how good some of them were individually.

Talked about Romeo being really good defensively with his quick feet, long arms and anticipation. Talked about Sochan's game and even said when he gets a 3 point shot he's gonna be tough.

Rekon this group has got Pop juiced. Good to see.

[szkorhetz]

“As a 30-year-old whose been on six or seven teams, I haven’t had this much fun playing basketball. It’s just been a joy to be a part of.” -Doug Mc

I get glimpses of the Grit&Grind Grizzlies mixed with the '14 Beautiful Basketball. I love the way we play right now and the players really seem to enjoy playing with each other.

[ragas]

What also impresses me: They don't give a shit about the Primo scandal

[RC_Drunkford]

let's get that 1st seed

[Mr. Body]

The team has been doing the addition by subtraction thing for a while now but people refuse to believe in that concept. They thought we’d be much worse after DeMar left… that didn’t happen. And now, DJ… too early to tell, but it’s looking that way. Not everything should be viewed as binary. Plants grow better when you remove the obstacles that were blocking them from the sun.

The guard corps of the future we had to begin last season is all gone, White, Murray, Primo. The team looks more dangerous.

[Dejounte]

The guard corps of the future we had to begin last season is all gone, White, Murray, Primo. The team looks more dangerous.

Don’t forget Lonnie. Feels like just yesterday. The Spurs moved on hella quick.

[mo7888]

People forget the passive impact GOAT candidates and HoFers have. They just do things a different way. We all should've remembered how different things were the year Tim left. Pop has that same impact. He's going to leave a massive hole when he's gone. Just like in 2016, the team might not drop off that much in performance. But the little things won't be there. They'll have to build them again, and it'll be a process. Pop was definitely one of the stories. Keldon was the headliner. KBD busting out one of his "legit rotation player" games when the team absolutely needed it was the side story. But Pop's system, and McDermott being unlocked due to Murray being gone are the main takeaway. Just as the Bubble gave us a glimpse into the offense Pop wanted, we're now seeing a more actualized version now that all of the ball-stoppers are finally gone. Johnson is developing into a star that doesn't need to hold the ball. He's actually only middle in the pack on the team in terms of seconds per touch according to NBA.com. Folks thinking this was possible with last year's roster and that the Spurs should've kept their PGs if they weren't tanking, you can see why they had to move on. If they can find more high-impact guys who can fit into this, then they'll take some steps forward.

To me, this is the biggest issue when we talk about acquiring a PG over in the 'way to early pivot' thread. I don't want a ball stopper and I kind of feel like Fox is a ball stopper (although this isn't an anti-fox post just using him as an example). If we acquire someone I want guys who can move without the ball willingly and fit what we're doing. I've always believed this offense is a force multiplier and I want to lean into that structure with whomever we might target.

[Dejounte]

To me, this is the biggest issue when we talk about acquiring a PG over in the 'way to early pivot' thread. I don't want a ball stopper and I kind of feel like Fox is a ball stopper (although this isn't an anti-fox post just using him as an example). If we acquire someone I want guys who can move without the ball willingly and fit what we're doing. I've always believed this offense is a force multiplier and I want to lean into that structure with whomever we might target.

Basically a rich man’s Tre Jones that isn’t overpaid, whoever that is

It aint Ben Simmons, that’s for sure…

Someone like prime Chauncey Billups would be perfect for this team.

[mo7888]

Basically a rich man’s Tre Jones that isn’t overpaid, whoever that is

It aint Ben Simmons, that’s for sure…

Someone like prime Chauncey Billups would be perfect for this team.

Yep and I'm not sure but I think Tre still has some upside left to explore. So I'd be patient and real picky... Tre, and Blake if he's not hurt, and KJ seem like they can handle the job from night to night... Let's look for that 'Prime Chauncey' or the next TP but not force it by targeting a ball stopper..

[Dejounte]

Heck, prime Jrue Holiday on this team would be nasty too…

a point guard who is a 1-2-3 defensive stopper.

if there was a trade that can be had with JRich, McDermott for Jrue, I think that would give this team a serious boost.

[Brazil]

this team... I swear.. cannot even tank properly :lol

[Mr. Body]

this team... I swear.. cannot even tank properly :lol

"This team sucks and will be tanking" was just an ESPN thing. Never listen to ESPN when it comes to sports analysis. They're idiots.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Basically a rich man’s Tre Jones that isn’t overpaid, whoever that is

It aint Ben Simmons, that’s for sure…

Someone like prime Chauncey Billups would be perfect for this team.

His brother, Tyus would have been a great fit. He is Trae with a better jumper and a little bit more accurate passing. Too bad, the Grizz have him locked up for some years.

[tbdog]

Basically a rich man’s Tre Jones that isn’t overpaid, whoever that is

It aint Ben Simmons, that’s for sure…

Someone like prime Chauncey Billups would be perfect for this team.

I actually wanted spurs to overpay for tyus Jones during the last offseason. But they seem to want the cap space.

[tbdog]

His brother, Tyus would have been a great fit. He is Trae with a better jumper and a little bit more accurate passing. Too bad, the Grizz have him locked up for some years.

Lol. Just saw that after my post.

[Chinook]

To me, this is the biggest issue when we talk about acquiring a PG over in the 'way to early pivot' thread. I don't want a ball stopper and I kind of feel like Fox is a ball stopper (although this isn't an anti-fox post just using him as an example). If we acquire someone I want guys who can move without the ball willingly and fit what we're doing. I've always believed this offense is a force multiplier and I want to lean into that structure with whomever we might target.

I think if Derrick White came back to the team now, he'd fit in great. Without the pressure to be "next" and with the freedom to be the role-player he has been with Boston, he'd be in many ways a better Tre. Not as fast, but basically everything else would be a plus.

That said, I do think the team would be well served to not tech solely into this style of play. The team is dependent on the three to allow their movement to work. If the shot isn't falling, they're relying on Johnson and Vassell trying to create inside at a high-enough rate to overcome a modern NBA offense. I don't see that going well for the team. Yes, you'd ideally want someone who completely fits into what the Spurs are doing. But they can afford to bend that style a bit if the player in question can do their part in team play most of the time. The "Beautiful Game" was a mode the Spurs could enter. It wasn't the entirety of their offensive arsenal.

[mo7888]

I think if Derrick White came back to the team now, he'd fit in great. Without the pressure to be "next" and with the freedom to be the role-player he has been with Boston, he'd be in many ways a better Tre. Not as fast, but basically everything else would be a plus.

That said, I do think the team would be well served to not tech solely into this style of play. The team is dependent on the three to allow their movement to work. If the shot isn't falling, they're relying on Johnson and Vassell trying to create inside at a high-enough rate to overcome a modern NBA offense. I don't see that going well for the team. Yes, you'd ideally want someone who completely fits into what the Spurs are doing. But they can afford to bend that style a bit if the player in question can do their part in team play most of the time. The "Beautiful Game" was a mode the Spurs could enter. It wasn't the entirety of their offensive arsenal.

I understand where you're coming from and the Beautiful games wasn't the entirety of what they could do and having a go-to guy was important to them at certain points in a game and it'll be important to this team at some point as well. The difference I see is that team was a championship team and this one is at the very beginning of it's life so to speak. I don't want the go to player right now. I want them to fully embrace this style until it's just natural for them and then add that go-to guy who can still play the beautiful game within the system. It's more a matter of timing than anything. I don't feel like we should be trying to check all of the boxes as if we were competing for a championship prematurely. Just let them play this system and take some lumps and get better as they continue to mature and then look to add those pieces when they are ready.

Now the Derrick White thing I get. He plays a role, keeps things flowing and plays D. All of that is fine and he wouldn't hinder growth at all nor would he detract from this style of play I just don't think it's needed right now or more precisely I don't it's worth giving up assets for because this team can already play like they need to and giving assets to get 'better' in the win column isn't in the best interest of this team long term. I think patience is what we need right now.

[Brazil]

"This team sucks and will be tanking" was just an ESPN thing. Never listen to ESPN when it comes to sports analysis. They're idiots.

I don't need to listen to ESPN to know that this is the year to tank. That's what the team should do.

[TheChillFactor]

we missed on Luka Sandwich but we now have Langford, Roby and Johnson out of that draft.

Johnson was a home run and Langford can grow a lot more in my opinion. Roby looks like a rotation player too, if he can keep developing.

[DAF86]

The result was another astonishing win against a much more talented team.

At which point are we going to start considering the fact that maybe the Spurs aren't as talentless as we thought?

[The Truth #6]

Sixers and Wolves may end up being meh, so we should keep that in mind too, but obviously more talented than us. But we have no stars, so less hierarchical divisions among players, which I like. So less material for infighting over roles, arguably.

[Mr. Body]

I don't need to listen to ESPN to know that this is the year to tank. That's what the team should do.

Not what I said. I said you should never believe that this particular team was going to tank.

[Mr. Body]

At which point are we going to start considering the fact that maybe the Spurs aren't as talentless as we thought?

Ding ding ding.

[Brazil]

Not what I said. I said you should never believe that this particular team was going to tank.

If the Spurs wanted to tank they would have not done anything different.

[exstatic]

If the Spurs wanted to tank they would have not done anything different.

If they were dead serious about tanking, they would have traded Keldon and Vassell.

[Mr. Body]

If the Spurs wanted to tank they would have not done anything different.

Oops, they're winning games. Guess you're wrong.

[jhfenton]

If the Spurs wanted to tank they would have not done anything different.

If their top priority were losing this season, they would have prioritized trading Poeltl and maybe Richardson. People who followed the team closely knew that Poeltl would raise the floor.

[Uriel]

Pop becomes an elite coach when Brett Brown is around.

[Brazil]

If they were dead serious about tanking, they would have traded Keldon and Vassell.

when you tank you don't trade your young assets.

Spurs are rebuilding and a high draft pick would be great in that plan, Spurs surely did not make any moves to become a contender this year.

[Brazil]

If their top priority were losing this season, they would have prioritized trading Poeltl and maybe Richardson. People who followed the team closely knew that Poeltl would raise the floor.

raise the floor to what ? maintaining a 70% wr the whole season ? :lol Poeltl

[Chomag]

Primo DNP - Wardrobe malfunction

[poopbox]

The old man might still have some juice left as a coach...his rotations, line ups, and adjustments have been almost flawless. I even liked the way he just let them play through that awful 4th in Indy and didn't pull Jakob when they started hacking him.

Makes me wonder just what the hell was going on with Pop when he was trotting out Forbes, Belli, and Mills, to combine for 7 threes and give up 60 points. Headscratching tbh

[K...]

The old man might still have some juice left as a coach...his rotations, line ups, and adjustments have been almost flawless. I even liked the way he just let them play through that awful 4th in Indy and didn't pull Jakob when they started hacking him.

Makes me wonder just what the hell was going on with Pop when he was trotting out Forbes, Belli, and Mills, to combine for 7 threes and give up 60 points. Headscratching tbh

Easy, not enough young talent, trying to unlock spacing for the stars, it wasn't great but you make a team to exploit talent. Now maybe signing better guys might have helped but thats another can of worms. LMA and derozan are just moody guys and frustrating to work with. Ball dominant “my touches“ couldn't run with this team

[jhfenton]

raise the floor to what ? maintaining a 70% wr the whole season ? :lol Poeltl

No. Preseason, I was thinking 35 wins with Poeltl vs 25 wins without.

And to me, a 35-win season with Poeltl is the worst outcome. 40+ wins with the kids would reflect some real growth. 25 wins would mean good lottery odds. 35 is a repeat of last season.

[Brazil]

No. Preseason, I was thinking 35 wins with Poeltl vs 25 wins without.

And to me, a 35-win season with Poeltl is the worst outcome. 40+ wins with the kids would reflect some real growth. 25 wins would mean good lottery odds. 35 is a repeat of last season.

I don't believe Poeltl represents a +10 in win columns but anyway keeping him is not a sign that Spurs are not lurking towards a high draft pick next