Grades: Spurs vs. Nuggets - Nov. 7, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-nuggets-grades-11/

Good effort :tu

[Mr. Body]

Vassell and Keldon better bring it every night -- barely any help out there otherwise, tho JRich helped this time.

Hurts to see how little Sochan does on offense.

One possession where the team just couldn't corral a defensive board as the ball pinged all over the fuggin place - might have been the game. It's mighty hard stopping Jokic/Murray pick-n-rolls, one a multiple MVP and the other incredibly hard to stop.

Charles Bassey, man. That was pretty impressive. He looked completely ready, mobile, and PHYSICAL.

[wildbill2u]

After watching the Austin Spurs play, I predicted Bassey could help the squad right away if they brought him down from Austin. He is going to be a very strong defender and rebounder and can handle the ball on the PNR for some easy baskets at the rim. Give him more minutes.

[John B]

31 assists should’ve done it, but they committed 25 TO’s. Yikes. Any other team would probably have won it for them. But not when you’re playing the reigning MVP and the Nuggets, who are 1st in FG %. We know what we can expect from Keldon/Vassell. It’s time for the rest of the team to join. 4 pts from Sochan is not enough. He needs to be close to 10 pts and he needs to bring in more rebounds. Poeltl needs to be more aggressive offensively. I like Bassey, but he needs Austin to hone his skills better. They need to play Hall/Langford in the PG to freeup JRich who’s better as offball.

[mo7888]

I'm more firmly in the 'trade Jak' camp every game. I love his game but I'd rather have the assets he'd bring + letting someone else pay him the money he'll command next year. Give Collins and Bassey those minutes.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bassey looked good. JRich with a couple of bad turnovers down the stretch probably cost the game. Pop seems to be embracing the youth movement. Still like this team better than the last 3 years’ versions, even if we finish around 23-24 wins.

[Dejounte]

Bassey was a fresh breath of air last night that we haven’t seen from that position in a while. He knows how to use his body real well and he’s constantly moving to be at the right spot at the right time. But most of all, his awareness of where opposing players are is impressive. None of that tunnel vision shit that we always see from Collins. If he keeps this up, he makes Collins expendable at the very least. Need to see more if he makes Poeltl expendable too. Doubt a 2nd round pick (or undrafted? I don’t remember) can do that THAT quickly but we’ll see. There were multiple times I wish our guys passed it to him down low when he was wide open for an easy 2.

JRich as a point guard is killing us offensively. It’s like Patty Mills but ten times worse.

[mo7888]

Bassey was a fresh breath of air last night that we haven’t seen from that position in a while. He knows how to use his body real well and he’s constantly moving to be at the right spot at the right time. But most of all, his awareness of where opposing players are is impressive. None of that tunnel vision shit that we always see from Collins. If he keeps this up, he makes Collins expendable at the very least. Need to see more if he makes Poeltl expendable too. Doubt a 2nd round pick (or undrafted? I don’t remember) can do that THAT quickly but we’ll see. There were multiple times I wish our guys passed it to him down low when he was wide open for an easy 2.

JRich as a point guard is killing us offensively. It’s like Patty Mills but ten times worse.

I envision Bassey as a quality backup big in ball movement system with our 2nd unit. I think we end up moving Jak and Collins and we target a high end alpha type big who can stretch the floor to play with our starting unit. I'm just not sure I can see who that big is ...yet...

[The Truth #6]

Good loss. Sochan started with great energy, which helped set the tone. Hopefully Coach Brown can use his experience with non-shooting defenders to find a way to extract the most out of his game.

[poopbox]

Sochan has to re-work his shot so he's not going to do much from 3 this year. Poeltl is complete dead weight on offense and I can't wait for him to be gone. Denver guards can just run the pnr with literally any big on their team, even old ass dirt deandre jordan, and either get an easy floater, or if the center comes over to help, it's a lob for an easy layup or dunk. But Poeltl is such a pussy that we can't do that...ever. He NEVER ever not once ever attacks the rim on a pick and roll. 90% of the time he sets a pick...and then just sets another pick. Great for the tank cause we would score 8 to 12 more points a game if he wasn't so trash, but this team will not take the next step until he is gone.

I also still don't understand why we have so many Poeltl at the 3 point line dribble hand off sets. They go nowhere. They do nothing. The guard goes under and the other big just sags in the paint cause Poeltl is not going to shoot it or drive to the basket. Whoever keeps drawing up this set needs to be fired. Just one of the most useless sets I have ever seen in the history of basketball.

It's unfathomable that this dude was a top 10 pick in his draft. How can a top 10 pick not be able to shoot a jumpshot? Awful.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan has to re-work his shot so he's not going to do much from 3 this year. Poeltl is complete dead weight on offense and I can't wait for him to be gone. Denver guards can just run the pnr with literally any big on their team, even old ass dirt deandre jordan, and either get an easy floater, or if the center comes over to help, it's a lob for an easy layup or dunk. But Poeltl is such a pussy that we can't do that...ever. He NEVER ever not once ever attacks the rim on a pick and roll. 90% of the time he sets a pick...and then just sets another pick. Great for the tank cause we would score 8 to 12 more points a game if he wasn't so trash, but this team will not take the next step until he is gone.

I also still don't understand why we have so many Poeltl at the 3 point line dribble hand off sets. They go nowhere. They do nothing. The guard goes under and the other big just sags in the paint cause Poeltl is not going to shoot it or drive to the basket. Whoever keeps drawing up this set needs to be fired. Just one of the most useless sets I have ever seen in the history of basketball.

It's unfathomable that this dude was a top 10 pick in his draft. How can a top 10 pick not be able to shoot a jumpshot? Awful.

You should check out players like Killian Hayes.

[siraulo23]

It seems like Jakob's hot stretch to start the season is finally over.

Expect the losses to pile on, Wenbanyama les gooo

[Dejounte]

Tbh I wish Wemba was more of a bruiser. I have a hard time envisioning him guarding the likes of Jokic.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan has to re-work his shot so he's not going to do much from 3 this year. Poeltl is complete dead weight on offense and I can't wait for him to be gone. Denver guards can just run the pnr with literally any big on their team, even old ass dirt deandre jordan, and either get an easy floater, or if the center comes over to help, it's a lob for an easy layup or dunk. But Poeltl is such a pussy that we can't do that...ever. He NEVER ever not once ever attacks the rim on a pick and roll. 90% of the time he sets a pick...and then just sets another pick. Great for the tank cause we would score 8 to 12 more points a game if he wasn't so trash, but this team will not take the next step until he is gone.

I also still don't understand why we have so many Poeltl at the 3 point line dribble hand off sets. They go nowhere. They do nothing. The guard goes under and the other big just sags in the paint cause Poeltl is not going to shoot it or drive to the basket. Whoever keeps drawing up this set needs to be fired. Just one of the most useless sets I have ever seen in the history of basketball.

It's unfathomable that this dude was a top 10 pick in his draft. How can a top 10 pick not be able to shoot a jumpshot? Awful.

it's the same guy who drew up a Poeltl post up as the first play of the game :lol :pop:

[Mr. Body]

Tbh I wish Wemba was more of a bruiser. I have a hard time envisioning him guarding the likes of Jokic.

Wembanyama is going to get injured as fast as Chet Holmgren did, or faster.

[Rocalcio]

Wembanyama is going to get injured as fast as Chet Holmgren did, or faster.

We'll see that. :rolleyes

[mo7888]

We'll see that. :rolleyes

Yea, Wem has a much better frame to add muscle than Chet. Strong guys will give him issues because of their lower center of gravity but he should adjust to that and a strong Defensive PF next to him will help tremendously.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

How can a top 10 pick not be able to shoot a jumpshot? Awful.
https://thejasminebrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4645f_shaquille-o-neal.jpg

[jjspur]

The spurs played a pretty decent game against a better team like the nuggets even in a loss. If they can use the same lineups and effort against lesser teams they could win some games. The nuggets are a top 4 western conference team and the spurs played them fairly evenly, imagine what they can do to the conference bottom feeders.

I know the goal is to be bad to get a good draft pick, but you have to admit they aren't anywhere near as bad many thought they would actually be, even at this point in the season.

[RC_Drunkford]

The spurs played a pretty decent game against a better team like the nuggets even in a loss. If they can use the same lineups and effort against lesser teams they could win some games. The nuggets are a top 4 western conference team and the spurs played them fairly evenly, imagine what they can do to the conference bottom feeders.

I know the goal is to be bad to get a good draft pick, but you have to admit they aren't anywhere near as bad many thought they would actually be, even at this point in the season.

exactly. The Spurs need to find a way to lose games against the tanking competition. They are playing way too well to lose against the Rockets or Lakers.

[Mr. Body]

Yea, Wem has a much better frame to add muscle than Chet. Strong guys will give him issues because of their lower center of gravity but he should adjust to that and a strong Defensive PF next to him will help tremendously.

Alotta premium grade copium in this thread. :lol

[rjv]

The spurs played a pretty decent game against a better team like the nuggets even in a loss. If they can use the same lineups and effort against lesser teams they could win some games. The nuggets are a top 4 western conference team and the spurs played them fairly evenly, imagine what they can do to the conference bottom feeders.

I know the goal is to be bad to get a good draft pick, but you have to admit they aren't anywhere near as bad many thought they would actually be, even at this point in the season.

i don't want any "tanking" to occur at the expense of development. otherwise, you just wind up with a team like the rockets, or the kings.

[lefty]

Turnovers killed us
We lacked creativity at times

The Nuggets have the 3rd worst road defense in the NBA, we should have taken advantage of that

Also. Jokic and Murray spent a lot of time on the bench IIRC

Despite all that, I liked our competitive mindset

And the Nuggets are actually likable, unlike the Worriers

[barakz21]

I’m curious as to who’s in charge of player development for the spurs. Seems like whoever was in the past did really well (Georgie, nephew, DWhite, DJ) and now KJ and Dev. Hopefully whoever’s in charge of that now will be able to develop the 3 rookies.

[jjspur]

exactly. The Spurs need to find a way to lose games against the tanking competition. They are playing way too well to lose against the Rockets or Lakers.

You know the lakers are just plain bad. They've spent most of their cap space on Lebron, AD, and Westbrook and didn't leave much for the rest of the team. That is really bad cap management. Even if the lakers tank they don't have any #1 picks. That's laughingly bad.

The rockets have talent just no real experience. That will doom them to the bottom of the standings. Teams always need a balance of youth and experience in order to win. The rockets are pretty far away from that.

The front office wants the spurs to tank, but the players for the most part have ignored the memo. At least this group plays hard which is enjoyable to watch even when they lose. Lose enough games and we get a decent draft pick. Manage the cap and maybe we can sign so mid range vets and then maybe we don't have to talk about tanking so much next year.

[Killakobe81]

You know the lakers are just plain bad. They've spent most of their cap space on Lebron, AD, and Westbrook and didn't leave much for the rest of the team. That is really bad cap management. Even if the lakers tank they don't have any #1 picks. That's laughingly bad.

The rockets have talent just no real experience. That will doom them to the bottom of the standings. Teams always need a balance of youth and experience in order to win. The rockets are pretty far away from that.

The front office wants the spurs to tank, but the players for the most part have ignored the memo. At least this group plays hard which is enjoyable to watch even when they lose. Lose enough games and we get a decent draft pick. Manage the cap and maybe we can sign so mid range vets and then maybe we don't have to talk about tanking so much next year.

We have our pick but the fucked up part Pelican can pick swap …

[jjspur]

We have our pick but the fucked up part Pelican can pick swap …

Do you really think the the Lakers are not going to be worse than the Pels ? The Pels are going to swap picks my friend .... and they will be laughing their asses off as they do it.

[Killakobe81]

Do you really think the the Lakers are not going to be worse than the Pels ? The Pels are going to swap picks my friend .... and they will be laughing their asses off as they do it.

Nah, I get that part just saying we do have our pick technically and will be worse if it ends up #1 or #2

[RC_Drunkford]

You know the lakers are just plain bad. They've spent most of their cap space on Lebron, AD, and Westbrook and didn't leave much for the rest of the team. That is really bad cap management. Even if the lakers tank they don't have any #1 picks. That's laughingly bad.

The rockets have talent just no real experience. That will doom them to the bottom of the standings. Teams always need a balance of youth and experience in order to win. The rockets are pretty far away from that.

The front office wants the spurs to tank, but the players for the most part have ignored the memo. At least this group plays hard which is enjoyable to watch even when they lose. Lose enough games and we get a decent draft pick. Manage the cap and maybe we can sign so mid range vets and then maybe we don't have to talk about tanking so much next year.

And? Everybody knows the Lakers are a bad team and everybody knows they don't own their pick. They would still be in front of the Spurs in the lottery so what's your point? And if you don't want to talk about the tank so much next year, guess what: You tank this year and the tank is over. That's why people are asking for the tank instead of making it a 5 year process like they did for the past 5 seasons.

[jjspur]

Nah, I get that part just saying we do have our pick technically and will be worse if it ends up #1 or #2

It sucks when a team makes a move and then it manages to backfire a bit. Granted the lakers did get a bubble championship out of that trade, but in the long run it might not look as a great move after all, with the number of players and picks given up or swapped. The Pels still have to pick a decent player to make the trade worthwhile, but like you said its worse for the lakers if the pels get a #1 or 2 pick.

[jjspur]

And? Everybody knows the Lakers are a bad team and everybody knows they don't own their pick. They would still be in front of the Spurs in the lottery so what's your point? And if you don't want to talk about the tank so much next year, guess what: You tank this year and the tank is over. That's why people are asking for the tank instead of making it a 5 year process like they did for the past 5 seasons.

Dude Chill. Reality check. Absolutely no one wants a 5 year tank. There are no guarantees in tanking, Front offices want to tank because its a money decision. The players don't want to tank because it makes them look bad as an individual player even if they leave the team. The last few years the spurs made the play in tournament, didn't win anything but it wasn't tanking like the magic or rockets or blazers. Now Wembanyama is available to be drafted and everyone goes nuts trying to tank. Well the odds are 14% that a team gets him if they finish in the bottom 4. The odds are 3 times against getting him even if they do finish in the bottom 4. A team will need to be pretty bad and a bit of luck as well.

Check #2 When a team tanks there are a lot of losers - not only the front office and the players, its everyone who has even the smallest stake in the team. From part time employees, restaurant owners, bar owners , small business owners, online sales of merchandise - they all lose as well. Even a website like this one would lose visitors if the team was constantly losing like the kings have for the past 15 years. Just something to consider.

Check #3 Whomever gets Wembanyama will be bad and definitely lucky, but they will get a generational talent no doubt. David Robinson was a generational talent. He improved the spurs record by 20 some odd games - great. Did he win us a championship ....NO. It wasn't until Tim Duncan another generational talent actually a GOAT showed up, and then it was 2 years before they won the first championship. (by the way, we weren't the worst team in that draft so we did get lucky) Last generational player was Lebron. It took him 9 years to win a championship and he did it by joining a team with stars already there.

Point is there will be a number of teams that will try to tank. All but a few will lose trying to get the big prize(s). If a team is bad but still tries to win, that's one thing - they just don't have enough overall talent to win - I think that's where the spurs are. There are teams that constantly lose year after year. Their issues are bigger than just basketball. Then there are teams like the lakers who pull a off a fast deal in the short run but it bites them in the long run. Everyone else is trying to get to the playoffs and not terribly concerned about getting the top pick unless it's thru trade. That's the competition for the number 1 pick and it's a lot. So the point is, there's going to be a lot of hurtful losing for a "chance" to be lucky. Some people will say it's better than no chance, but is all that losing worth it. I don't know but I'm absolutely sure the spurs front office is having that very same discussion. At the end of the day they make the decision good or bad to still be somewhat respectable or to throw in the towel early in the downhill race for Wembamyama. Its a tough call.

[exstatic]

I’m curious as to who’s in charge of player development for the spurs. Seems like whoever was in the past did really well (Georgie, nephew, DWhite, DJ) and now KJ and Dev. Hopefully whoever’s in charge of that now will be able to develop the 3 rookies.

They’ve cycled through a few. I know Will Hardy, now HC in Utah, was one of them.

[poopbox]

https://thejasminebrand.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/4645f_shaquille-o-neal.jpg


Well played :lmao