Grades: Spurs vs. Grizzlies - Nov. 9, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-grizzlies-grades-12/

Well played, once again :tu

[wildbill2u]

pretty good game considering how badly we shot the ball.

[Dejounte]

all the things that led to the loss
-Memphis’ hot shooting in the 1st
-JRich being a poor decision maker as a point guard
-Rebounding by Steven Adams
-every time they were within reach, they’d shoot themselves in the foot with a reckless play. Signs of a young team

Things I liked
-obviously Bassey
-Vassell looking more and more natural out there

[Maddog]

Sochan spent a lot of time against Ja Morant and Desmond Bane, which is almost inconceivable for a power forward.

A 19 year old rookie power forward guarding one the most dynamic guards.......

[RC_Drunkford]

Man this was nailbiter. Perfect loss, keep racking up these Ls

[objective]

They should just sign Bassey to a 3 or 4 year deal right now, get him on the main roster and lock him up. No reason to keep that dollar store Slo-mo they gave charity to recently.

[CGD]

They should just sign Bassey to a 3 or 4 year deal right now, get him on the main roster and lock him up. No reason to keep that dollar store Slo-mo they gave charity to recently.

Agree. At a minimum he’s shown to be an asset worth protecting for potential future value.

[Mr. Body]

Guys, guys, guys.

I know it's been three games, but Bassey is eye popping. I thought he was a lasting journeyman type or a Cacok type who might hustle and do the right things, but just be limited and never all that good.

Right now, I'm like... how did the Sixers not give him a chance? He's not making mistakes. He's often making great cuts or reads, has great hands, has vision, plays above his height, is physical, has bounce from a standstill, hustles, has a nice form and touch on his shots, might have good range on his jump shots. He's not lost guarding the perimeter and he rebounds.

I mean, what's going on? I'm not going gaga and saying he's a full time starter or anything, but it's hard to see this as a fluke. These aren't fluke plays. It's like Pop was saying after his G-League performance, Why aren't we playing this guy? He's basically a big plus every time he's on the floor.

[Dejounte]

If Bassey keeps it up, Poeltl loses leverage in contract negotiations. Could keep him for on a bargain deal.

[mo7888]

If Bassey keeps it up, Poeltl loses leverage in contract negotiations. Could keep him for on a bargain deal.

If Poeltl were a rfa that might be the case but being an ufa he's still got all the leverage. It may make it easier for us to let him walk but with the other offers he'll have will give him the leverage where it counts and that would be a shame because we'd lose him for nothing. If we're still this high on Bassey around Christmas then go ahead and pull the trigger on a Poeltl trade.

[John B]

I wanted them to win because they kept fighting and even almost won the game twice. Just the same, it’s another L closer to getting a high pick.

Vassell looks good as an offensive force. And he’s just going to get better as he becomes even more aggressive, seeing he can always find his spots and can knock down shots against defenders,
Keldon needs to learn to mix it up when his shots are not going in. Find where to contribute, rebound, assist, etc
Tre’s 11 assists was nice specially when his shots were not going in.
Sochan needs to rebound better. But his 13 points was a plus. I was happy he made that steal and dunk,
JRich is not a PG. That’s why Hall is such a head-scratcher when he still can’t get to play. I think if we had Blake and Primo, Spurs could’ve won some of these games.
Bassey is becoming a fan favorite. He is what we’ve been waiting for a big man, very nimble and can switch, has the ability to cover guards, shoot at range, FT, bruiser. I agree, the Spurs need to lock him on a good contract. Keep sending him out there.

The Wins are just going to keep tougher going on the road against good teams. I’m not worried. I think these guys naturally like playing with each other.

[Mr. Body]

The Wins are just going to keep tougher going on the road against good teams. I’m not worried. I think these guys naturally like playing with each other.

Five of the seven losses have come at home. Granted, fairly tough competition, but I feel like this team may do better on the road given the awful crowd attendance.

Also, the schedule gets lighter very soon. They face the Lakers three times nearly in a row, for example, and bad teams like Orlando and Houston. I feel like they're clearly better than those teams.

[DPG21920]

Does Bassey make SA clear Collins 7M off the books next season?

[The Truth #6]

Does Bassey make SA clear Collins 7M off the books next season?

Or feel better about trading Yak?

[Mr. Body]

Does Bassey make SA clear Collins 7M off the books next season?

I don't know Zollins' contract, but 7m seems cheap for him, if he shows he can stay healthy.

To me, and jumping way ahead, if Bassey shows he can be a spot starter, then I feel comfortable trading Poeltl. I also think Collins and Bassey can co-exist on the court and are definitely worth seeing together.

[Drom John]

1) Collins has shown that he can't stay healthy.
2a) The time to give Bassey a full contract is the day Bassey plays his last permitted 2-way game
2b) or the day the Spurs want to sign a 2-way for a Hall replacement.

[Atl Spur]

I think they like Zollins versatility; bassey is a mixture between both poodle & Zollins .

[Atl Spur]

I don't know Zollins' contract, but 7m seems cheap for him, if he shows he can stay healthy.

To me, and jumping way ahead, if Bassey shows he can be a spot starter, then I feel comfortable trading Poeltl. I also think Collins and Bassey can co-exist on the court and are definitely worth seeing together.


Agreed.

[Ice009]

Just finished watching the game a minute ago. Great fight from the guys to get the chance at a game winner. Tough, tough loss, but mega props to the team for battling it out. I feel bad for Devin.

[John B]

Five of the seven losses have come at home. Granted, fairly tough competition, but I feel like this team may do better on the road given the awful crowd attendance.

Also, the schedule gets lighter very soon. They face the Lakers three times nearly in a row, for example, and bad teams like Orlando and Houston. I feel like they're clearly better than those teams.

I stand corrected. I didn’t realize Warriors have been sucking. Blazers and Clippers will be tough. But Lonnie could go beastmode against his former team. Let’s see.

[JeffDuncan]

…
-JRich being a poor decision maker as a point guard
-…


Yeah, Poeltl’s a better point guard than Richardson is. Lol

[lefty]

J Rich shouldn't have PG duties, too many bad turnovers
Lack of spacing is a factor as well
Instead he should be out on the perimeter helping with the spacing

[Vince Carter's ankle]

J Rich shouldn't have PG duties, too many bad turnovers
Lack of spacing is a factor as well
Instead he should be out on the perimeter helping with the spacing
Tre has to play 48 minutes?

[exstatic]

J Rich shouldn't have PG duties, too many bad turnovers
Lack of spacing is a factor as well
Instead he should be out on the perimeter helping with the spacing

He’s better creating off of his own scoring action than just pure creating. He’s been pretty bad as a backup PG.

[heyheymymy]

better not let Bassey go the way of Darius Days lol

[John B]

He’s better creating off of his own scoring action than just pure creating. He’s been pretty bad as a backup PG.

Not signing another PG (besides Hall) makes you think Blake would be coming soon. Isn’t Kemba still available? But he be better off playing in China where he can make more money

[heyheymymy]

Hell of a loss against a good team for Spurs to have still negated a double digit deficit, not once but twice. To have still had a chance to outright win the game on the last shot, not once but twice.

All of that on a pretty poor night's showing from SA. All of that just to still secure a L towards a better pick that might give the team a real chance to contend again.

[heyheymymy]

Last night was Spurs playing with house money. Win as closely as you can while still ultimately losing for the better draft pick

Golden tank

[DPG21920]

I don't know Zollins' contract, but 7m seems cheap for him, if he shows he can stay healthy.

To me, and jumping way ahead, if Bassey shows he can be a spot starter, then I feel comfortable trading Poeltl. I also think Collins and Bassey can co-exist on the court and are definitely worth seeing together.

I think it’s more than probably he should get paid, but not egregious or harmful with sA cap situation. But they can clear 7M with no issues - not something you do for no reason, but if you need the cap space to land a max FA ? Nice to have that in your pocket - especially if SA lands a top pick in draft and wants to approach next season as full go towards PO again…

[Chomag]

Jeremy's lack of rebounding is pretty glaring, and you have to have on some pretty thick Homer goggles not to acknowledge that.

I haven't been able to watch much of the last 2 games but what is making him struggle so much there? Is he having issues getting into position for the rebounds or something?

[jjspur]

Tre has to play 48 minutes?

Wish he didn't have to play that many minutes considering we really don't have a good backup pg. I know its early but is anyone in the G league showing any promise as a point guard that we should keep an eye out for ?

[RC_Drunkford]

Five of the seven losses have come at home. Granted, fairly tough competition, but I feel like this team may do better on the road given the awful crowd attendance.

Also, the schedule gets lighter very soon. They face the Lakers three times nearly in a row, for example, and bad teams like Orlando and Houston. I feel like they're clearly better than those teams.

this is what I'm worried about. We can't afford to go on a winning streak since we're not even at the bottom yet

[JeffDuncan]

Guys, guys, guys.

I know it's been three games, but Bassey is eye popping. …

Right now, I'm like... how did the Sixers not give him a chance? …



Looks like the Sixers simply decided to keep Paul Reed. Reed was there longer, and had an ok season last year, going by the stats. And the Sixers don’t have a reputation for player development. Did they know what they were looking at?

Judging by how hard Bassey is playing, it appears he knows he’s stepped into a better situation with the Spurs.

Dieng can be traded after Dec 15. Vet minimum contract. People are talking about Zollins and Poeltl, but I’d suppose the first move toward giving Bassey a regular contract would be Dieng. One step at a time. A Dieng trade wouldn’t have to return much. It isn’t a high-dollar roster spot. If a trade isn’t possible, waiving Dieng to add Bassey would be fine. So it seems to me. Presuming Bassey keeps looking good.

[JeffDuncan]

Tre has to play 48 minutes?


That’s the thing. When Wesley got hurt it all went mucky. 6 to 8 weeks, they said, on that.

[Mr. Body]

this is what I'm worried about. We can't afford to go on a winning streak since we're not even at the bottom yet

I don't think the Spurs will be a bottom team or that close. I've been watching other games. Houston looks absolutely awful. Orlando is better, but not terribly good. Etc. The Spurs will beat some good teams, in addition.

I do see a win streak coming up.

[Mr. Body]

Looks like the Sixers simply decided to keep Paul Reed. Reed was there longer, and had an ok season last year, going by the stats. And the Sixers don’t have a reputation for player development. Did they know what they were looking at?

Judging by how hard Bassey is playing, it appears he knows he’s stepped into a better situation with the Spurs.

Dieng can be traded after Dec 15. Vet minimum contract. People are talking about Zollins and Poeltl, but I’d suppose the first move toward giving Bassey a regular contract would be Dieng. One step at a time. A Dieng trade wouldn’t have to return much. It isn’t a high-dollar roster spot. If a trade isn’t possible, waiving Dieng to add Bassey would be fine. So it seems to me. Presuming Bassey keeps looking good.

I'm not sure Dieng will be of interest to anybody. However, he seems to be a really great locker room and bench guy. He always seems to be positive and pumping guys up.

[JeffDuncan]

Jeremy's lack of rebounding is pretty glaring, and you have to have on some pretty thick Homer goggles not to acknowledge that. …


I’d say Sochan might be too concerned about getting in the way of Poeltl or Keldon. Also concerned about getting called for a foul. The NBA, and the Spurs, are still very new to him. Give it another 20 games, then take another look, it seems to me. He’s only played 256 total minutes in the NBA so far.

[Fireball]

A bit worrying that Brooks totally shut down Keldon Johnson ... otherwise nice outing by the Spurs.

[R. DeMurre]

Doc Rivers & Philly are making strange decisions. They seemed really high on Bassey this summer, and now after waiving him (ostensibly because Paul Reed was better?) still only play Reed 7 mpg, even with Embiid missing 4 of Philly's 11 games. I don't understand Doc's rotations at all. I can't help thinking that once Reed is free of the 76ers, he'll be playing 20mpg somewhere, and so at the same time might Bassey, while Doc continues to talk about how to solve the back up center dilemma.

[exstatic]

better not let Bassey go the way of Darius Days lol

People need to take a fucking pill. He’s under team control for at least the rest of this season.

Speaking of Mr. days, Miami waived him, Houston picked him up, and he hasn’t played one fucking NBA minute.

[exstatic]

A bit worrying that Brooks totally shut down Keldon Johnson ... otherwise nice outing by the Spurs.

Keldon looked bad, like he was hurting. Zero energy. He played off ball almost the entire first half.

[exstatic]

Doc Rivers & Philly are making strange decisions. They seemed really high on Bassey this summer, and now after waiving him (ostensibly because Paul Reed was better?) still only play Reed 7 mpg, even with Embiid missing 4 of Philly's 11 games. I don't understand Doc's rotations at all. I can't help thinking that once Reed is free of the 76ers, he'll be playing 20mpg somewhere, and so at the same time might Bassey, while Doc continues to talk about how to solve the back up center dilemma.

Doc Rivers sucks, and he’s been coasting off his Boston chip for over a decade. Why that clown continues to get interviews, let alone jobs is a fucking mystery.

[Atl Spur]

I’d say Sochan might be too concerned about getting in the way of Poeltl or Keldon. Also concerned about getting called for a foul. The NBA, and the Spurs, are still very new to him. Give it another 20 games, then take another look, it seems to me. He’s only played 256 total minutes in the NBA so far.


Spot on! The never ending saga of rookie expectations��

[John B]

I’d say Sochan might be too concerned about getting in the way of Poeltl or Keldon. Also concerned about getting called for a foul. The NBA, and the Spurs, are still very new to him. Give it another 20 games, then take another look, it seems to me. He’s only played 256 total minutes in the NBA so far.

Sochan has been averaging 3.5 rebounds. He’s a PF. I think he can up that, and with his handles, he can rimrun and create opportunities.

[objective]

A bit worrying that Brooks totally shut down Keldon Johnson ... otherwise nice outing by the Spurs.

Maybe Johnson has spent most of the season going against teams without a supposed wing defender or a tough defender like Brooks. Seems like most of his offense is off the catch or early transition against teams with suspect wing defenders. DeRozan, Hield, Tobias etc.

I suppose that as they face teams with more reputable defenders who will look to deny his quick looks and make him work for it, his numbers will be a little harder to come by

[timvp]

Guys, guys, guys.

I know it's been three games, but Bassey is eye popping. I thought he was a lasting journeyman type or a Cacok type who might hustle and do the right things, but just be limited and never all that good.

Right now, I'm like... how did the Sixers not give him a chance? He's not making mistakes. He's often making great cuts or reads, has great hands, has vision, plays above his height, is physical, has bounce from a standstill, hustles, has a nice form and touch on his shots, might have good range on his jump shots. He's not lost guarding the perimeter and he rebounds.

I mean, what's going on? I'm not going gaga and saying he's a full time starter or anything, but it's hard to see this as a fluke. These aren't fluke plays. It's like Pop was saying after his G-League performance, Why aren't we playing this guy? He's basically a big plus every time he's on the floor.

Good post.

The knock on Bassey at Western Kentucky was that he didn't have much feel. The supposed statistical proof of that was his 3-to-1 turnovers-to-assist ratio. Bigs without feel aren't worth much of anything these days -- so he slipped in the draft.

But the most important thing so far is it looks like Bassey actually has feel. I don't see any issues with him making quick, smart passes. He looks pretty good defending out on the perimeter. He sets heady screens away from the ball.

One of three things has to be happening: 1) Bassey is a late bloomer who is starting to figure everything out, 2) Bassey simply didn't have any decent teammates on Western Kentucky so he wasn't able to show off his feel, 3) this is a fluke and Bassey will come back down to earth.

I'll guess we'll find out but there are really good signs so far :tu

[timvp]

Does Bassey make SA clear Collins 7M off the books next season?

Collins is safe unless he suffers another serious injury. If he returns in a month or so and keeps producing at his previous pace, he's too good to release when you can just keep him on a one-year, $7 million contract.

[timvp]

Jeremy's lack of rebounding is pretty glaring, and you have to have on some pretty thick Homer goggles not to acknowledge that.

I haven't been able to watch much of the last 2 games but what is making him struggle so much there? Is he having issues getting into position for the rebounds or something?

To be fair to Sochan, he's defending out on the perimeter a majority of the time. Last night, he was mostly on Bane and sometimes on Morant. Against the Nuggets, he spent a lot of time defending Jamal Murray. When he's chasing those guys around screens, he's not in rebounding position at all.

Sochan still has to rebound more by crashing the glass from the perimeter but it's not like opponents are constantly jumping over him for offensive rebounds or anything like that.

[timvp]

A bit worrying that Brooks totally shut down Keldon Johnson ... otherwise nice outing by the Spurs.

Brooks is the most physical perimeter defender in the league (it's not an accident that he has the highest foul rate for all perimeter players). Last night, the refs were allowing the teams to be physical -- which played a part in KJ struggling. But, yeah, KJ still has room to grow in terms of drawing fouls and getting to the line. With the type of defense being played against him last night, KJ could have lived even more on the line if he played his cards right.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan picked up 6.6 rebounds in 25 minutes per game at Baylor. (Note: he came off the bench.) A bit better per 36mins than Banchero, a bit worse than Keegan Murray.

I agree with timvp that he's often guarding the perimeter and out of position for boards. I'm sure this will be a point of emphasis for his development.

Also, I'd like to see him develop more of a mid-range. He has a decent turnaround. Like Parker, they may need to instruct him to not let loose from depth so much and start mixing it up. He's quick enough to get past initial defenders.

[lefty]

Tre has to play 48 minutes?

Sure why not

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't think the Spurs will be a bottom team or that close. I've been watching other games. Houston looks absolutely awful. Orlando is better, but not terribly good. Etc. The Spurs will beat some good teams, in addition.

I do see a win streak coming up.

that is exactly the problem

[Mr. Body]

that is exactly the problem

I think we kind of fetishize top draft picks. Just as often they're albatross contracts forcing bad decisions (Wiseman, Ayton) or they don't do anything for you. Houston has a basket of top picks and they're awful. Orlando has been picking high for years and they're still bad. Detroit sucks. Charlotte sucks. Sacramento is bad.

[timtonymanu]

Orlando, Detroit, and Sacramento are notoriously bad front offices though. PATFO even with all their critics are still miles above those 3 franchises in building a team.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think we kind of fetishize top draft picks. Just as often they're albatross contracts forcing bad decisions (Wiseman, Ayton) or they don't do anything for you. Houston has a basket of top picks and they're awful. Orlando has been picking high for years and they're still bad. Detroit sucks. Charlotte sucks. Sacramento is bad.

I don't know why sniffers always want to compare the Spurs to incompetent front offices. And then you go and compare the best draft class of the last 5 years to the worst draft classes in the past 5 years. Like WTF? It's not rocket science

[Mr. Body]

I don't know why sniffers always want to compare the Spurs to incompetent front offices. And then you go and compare the best draft class of the last 5 years to the worst draft classes in the past 5 years. Like WTF? It's not rocket science

Have no idea what that's supposed to mean, but go on.

[Fireball]

Brooks is the most physical perimeter defender in the league (it's not an accident that he has the highest foul rate for all perimeter players). Last night, the refs were allowing the teams to be physical -- which played a part in KJ struggling. But, yeah, KJ still has room to grow in terms of drawing fouls and getting to the line. With the type of defense being played against him last night, KJ could have lived even more on the line if he played his cards right.

KJ will definitely learn from that game. At one point he really seemed scared ... when Brooks came close KJ immediately fumbled the ball because all he could think of I have to get rid of this. And it was good that Vassell was able to take over the scoring so we already have a two-headed snake in the making!

[DPG21920]

Collins is safe unless he suffers another serious injury. If he returns in a month or so and keeps producing at his previous pace, he's too good to release when you can just keep him on a one-year, $7 million contract.

So dont see a situation where having the 7M in space makes sense? What if you land a top 2 pick and can land 2 larger FA fish to push immediately for playoffs due to lure of the young talent + ability to be maxed out?

[timvp]

So dont see a situation where having the 7M in space makes sense? What if you land a top 2 pick and can land 2 larger FA fish to push immediately for playoffs due to lure of the young talent + ability to be maxed out?

His contract becomes guaranteed after the draft, IIRC, so that makes it difficult to waive him. It's not like they can release him during the free agency period if they find someone better because the decision is due before free agency even begins.

[KingKev]

His contract becomes guaranteed after the draft, IIRC, so that makes it difficult to waive him. It's not like they can release him during the free agency period if they find someone better because the decision is due before free agency even begins.

And to add to that we are struggling to allocate cap space to begin with; it will take alot for Zollins’ option not being exercised.

[RC_Drunkford]

I don't see who would want to come here, so Zollins million should not be a problem. Spurs would probably still be under the cap.

[DPG21920]

His contract becomes guaranteed after the draft, IIRC, so that makes it difficult to waive him. It's not like they can release him during the free agency period if they find someone better because the decision is due before free agency even begins.

I operate under the assumption that teams know a lot more (due to tampering) than before FA actually begins (hence deals being done 1 minute into FA lol) - but sure. If SA thinks hes that good? But if you land a top 3 pick and think you can land big FA and vault right back to PO with young core? Hes not someone that should stand in way. But that may be an unlikely scenario.