Best trade prospects for Spurs

[slick'81]

I hope LA gets desperate to move those 27 and 29 picks, even if it's not to us. There's nothing out there that's gonna make much difference for them. Our package of jak, rich, and Doug probably results in more wins than anything out there but it won't do much more than have them getting beat in the 1st round. There present is kinda screwed and I wouldn't mind them screwing their future as well.


yea our trash isn't getting them anywhere. They would rather die then trade us those firsts

[DPG21920]

I would take one of those firsts for Jak and Richardson tbh…

[exstatic]

I would take one of those firsts for Jak and Richardson tbh…

The problem is there is the matter of Westbrooks bloated contract, and taking that into cap room. That’s worth the other pick.

[talkspurs]

The problem is there is the matter of Westbrooks bloated contract, and taking that into cap room. That’s worth the other pick.

I would do it for the pick and swap of 2026 pick. We have to pay the money anyway. Its value is what someone is willig to give them for it. Until a trade happens value is unstated.

[exstatic]

I would do it for the pick and swap of 2026 pick. We have to pay the money anyway. Its value is what someone is willig to give them for it. Until a trade happens value is unstated.

I’m quite sure Indy brushed them off for the same reasons. Acquiring positive value players, and offloading negative ones into cap room are two separate bills that both need to be paid.

[Jordan Jackson]

The Clippers look like they are on the verge of imploding. They might be desperate. Too bad they have nothing of value left after getting rolled by Presti.

Wonder how long before Unc and Phew start looking for the exit.

Both LA teams being ass is everything Adam Silver deserves.

[Mr. Body]

Sacramento has the best record in the Pacific division.

[slick'81]

Sacramento has the best record in the Pacific division.


Cant suck forever

[exstatic]

Sacramento has the best record in the Pacific division.

Yeah, but they’re barely over .500. Poverty division, tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, the point was as much that the Kings aren't bad but that the whole division is mediocre at best. Still expect GSW to win another one just because everyone else is terrible, too.

[talkspurs]

I’m quite sure Indy brushed them off for the same reasons. Acquiring positive value players, and offloading negative ones into cap room are two separate bills that both need to be paid.

Right and I am sure teams are brushing us off right now because of what we want. I think KAT went for way to much but that is what 2 people agreed his value was. Value is determined when both sides agree until then it is not set. some can want to much and some want not to pay enough. This is how houses prices go up and down.

[DPG21920]

Meh. Taking on WB, especially since SA is both so far beneath the salary cap and because he is only one year is no big deal. Sure, would I like multiple firsts for taking him on + giving up Jak/Richardson? Sure.

But I value quality over quantity. I would rather have 1 unprotected Lakers pick than 3 lottery protected picks for example personally.

[Mr. Body]

I really don't think LAL is looking to trade Westbrook. I think they're trying to add pieces. Not sure what salary they have though.

[DPG21920]

I really don't think LAL is looking to trade Westbrook. I think they're trying to add pieces. Not sure what salary they have though.

It’s part and parcel; the WB trade only happens with good players coming back in return as well..

[CGD]

I really don't think LAL is looking to trade Westbrook. I think they're trying to add pieces. Not sure what salary they have though.

Agree, I think they’d love to find a way to add Demar or Beal but those aren’t realistic. But adding Jak and Richardson doesn’t really elevate their chances this year. Tough spot.

This trade works on salaries but not sure their is enough for CHI in it:

LAL: DDR
SAS: Brick + both FRP picks
CHI: Jakob + Richardson + Christie (LAL)

Could consider adding the CHA pick we own to CHI if someone sends us a meaningful SRP.

[Mr. Body]

Agree, I think they’d love to find a way to add Demar or Beal but those aren’t realistic. But adding Jak and Richardson doesn’t really elevate their chances this year. Tough spot.

This trade works on salaries but not sure their is enough for CHI in it:

LAL: DDR
SAS: Brick + both FRP picks
CHI: Jakob + Richardson + Christie (LAL)

Could consider adding the CHA pick we own to CHI if someone sends us a meaningful SRP.

My guess is LAL, for all their lunacy, knows they're not competing this year. But missing the playoffs once again would be incredibly embarrassing.

[mo7888]

My guess is LAL, for all their lunacy, knows they're not competing this year. But missing the playoffs once again would be incredibly embarrassing.

That's the big question in all of this... how important is it for LA to make the playoffs in a year where LeBron is still performing at a high level offensively? I think it's pretty important to them...

I wonder if there's a scenario where they could just take Doug and Josh without including WB? Can they put enough salary together to do that? Maybe 1 pick or even just a swap can get that done? That might be more enticing to them if they think AD is coming back.

[Mr. Body]

That's the big question in all of this... how important is it for LA to make the playoffs in a year where LeBron is still performing at a high level offensively? I think it's pretty important to them...

I wonder if there's a scenario where they could just take Doug and Josh without including WB? Can they put enough salary together to do that? Maybe 1 pick or even just a swap can get that done? That might be more enticing to them if they think AD is coming back.

My view too. They're not completely shitty. Another piece or two would do the trick.

[CGD]

That's the big question in all of this... how important is it for LA to make the playoffs in a year where LeBron is still performing at a high level offensively? I think it's pretty important to them...

I wonder if there's a scenario where they could just take Doug and Josh without including WB? Can they put enough salary together to do that? Maybe 1 pick or even just a swap can get that done? That might be more enticing to them if they think AD is coming back.

They get quite close with the Nunn/Beverly package but probably need to add some smaller filler too.

[PhantomDashCam]

Jakob Hurdle?


https://youtu.be/Y6dLR9I3l6E

[exstatic]

The biggest difference with Poodle from this summer is that you can finish games with him now. He’s shooting like 75% from the line over like 15 games or so.

[duncan2150]

The biggest difference with Poodle from this summer is that you can finish games with him now. He’s shooting like 75% from the line over like 15 games or so.

True. 69% over last month, 72% last two weeks wich is a significant improvement.

[Mr. Body]

Jakob Hurdle?


https://youtu.be/Y6dLR9I3l6E

The fuck he keeps saying Hurdle?

Also not sure why he keeps saying Hurdle will be a key trade deadline target but it somehow depends on the Wembanyama sweepstakes.

What was he drinking?

[offset formation]

The biggest difference with Poodle from this summer is that you can finish games with him now. He’s shooting like 75% from the line over like 15 games or so.

He still gets his ish pushed in by athletic centers.

Certainly by a long shot not all on him, but our defense is worse than it's ever been. I think ppl here overestimate his value and assume we can get 2 FRPs for him as has been reported PATFO wants. We will be lucky to get 1 unprotected. More than likely its gonna be top ten protected or be a pick swap and a SRP.

[slick'81]

He still gets his ish pushed in by athletic centers.

Certainly by a long shot not all on him, but our defense is worse than it's ever been. I think ppl here overestimate his value and assume we can get 2 FRPs for him as has been reported PATFO wants. We will be lucky to get 1 unprotected. More than likely its gonna be top ten protected or be a pick swap and a SRP.


his value definitely isn't improving this being his final season

[PhantomDashCam]

The fuck he keeps saying Hurdle?

Also not sure why he keeps saying Hurdle will be a key trade deadline target but it somehow depends on the Wembanyama sweepstakes.

What was he drinking?

In some strange way, think he was doing an (unintentional) homage to Super Troopers.


https://youtu.be/1rlSjdnAKY4

[CGD]

Jakob Hurdle?


https://youtu.be/Y6dLR9I3l6E

Can we pause and give Timvp is due? Woj basically recycled his intel about spurs really liking the idea of pairing Jakob and Wemby together etc.

Well done

[jjspur]

A top 10 protected 1st and another big (for some salary balance) is probably all you'll get for him. You might get 2 firsts 5 plus years from now though.

[mo7888]

Can we pause and give Timvp is due? Woj basically recycled his intel about spurs really liking the idea of pairing Jakob and Wemby together etc.

Well done

Well said....

The best thing I heard in there was that there are a few teams showing alot of interest. That should drive up the price..

[Mr. Body]

He still gets his ish pushed in by athletic centers.

Certainly by a long shot not all on him, but our defense is worse than it's ever been. I think ppl here overestimate his value and assume we can get 2 FRPs for him as has been reported PATFO wants. We will be lucky to get 1 unprotected. More than likely its gonna be top ten protected or be a pick swap and a SRP.

I wouldn't hang the Spurs' shit defense on Poeltl. It's all completely awful perimeter defense.

Poeltl may not be worth 2 FRP but he has a good amount of value. So what if he gets ripped up by the top centers? So does everybody. You can't guard top players anymore. He's still a skilled center with nice hub and help defense value.

[offset formation]

I wouldn't hang the Spurs' shit defense on Poeltl. It's all completely awful perimeter defense.

Poeltl may not be worth 2 FRP but he has a good amount of value. So what if he gets ripped up by the top centers? So does everybody. You can't guard top players anymore. He's still a skilled center with nice hub and help defense value.

"Certainly by a long shot not all on him, but our defense is worse than it's ever been"

[CGD]

So what are the realistic Poeltl trades, and who can beat them? I think it’ll end up being a young prospect and a decent pick max, and it feels like spurs have something like these as standing offers now:

GSW: Wiseman + 2026 FRP
(earliest tradeable)

TOR: Birch + 2023 FRP (protections)

[exstatic]

So what are the realistic Poeltl trades, and who can beat them? I think it’ll end up being a young prospect and a decent pick max, and it feels like spurs have something like these as standing offers now:

GSW: Wiseman + 2026 FRP
(earliest tradeable)

TOR: Birch + 2023 FRP (protections)

Yeah, Toronto is sitting at #7 right now. They’re not trading that pick unless they go on a tear over the next month to climb out of the lottery.

[CGD]

Yeah, Toronto is sitting at #7 right now. They’re not trading that pick unless they go on a tear over the next month to climb out of the lottery.

Yeah, was thinking 1-14 protected with improving protections in our favor over time of it doesn’t convey.

These are baseline trade. I assume the spurs are holding out for more like getting Moody added or something like that

[CGD]

Simmons mused on his podcast recently that maybe Denver would be a landing spot because they had a 9M trade exception that Jakob could slot into. Problem is Nuggets cant trade a first until 2029. Not sure if they have good young prospects though.

Would Jakob into their exception for 2029(!) FRP and swap rights in some of the out years too be enough?

[mo7888]

So what are the realistic Poeltl trades, and who can beat them? I think it’ll end up being a young prospect and a decent pick max, and it feels like spurs have something like these as standing offers now:

GSW: Wiseman + 2026 FRP
(earliest tradeable)

TOR: Birch + 2023 FRP (protections)

I doubt Toronto trades their 1st but if they would we definitely should jump on it. I'd do it with very light protections too...like top 3 protected..

[TD 21]

A team that's wasted countless assets in recent years and is more bereft of anything resembling high end talent than any other can't afford to waste more by prioritizing fit for a relatively miniscule chance (and that's only if they believe it's not rigged) at a generational prospect.

Even in the hypothetical, not only would Collins and Bassey be fine as placeholder C's for a team still needing high pick(s), I'd argue they'd be a better fit than Poeltl.

Between Poeltl and Sochan, most of Wembanyama's minutes would reduce him to a glorified spot up shooter and if Collins were also retained, they'd lack the flexibility to play him much at C.



So what are the realistic Poeltl trades, and who can beat them? I think it’ll end up being a young prospect and a decent pick max, and it feels like spurs have something like these as standing offers now:

GSW: Wiseman + 2026 FRP
(earliest tradeable)

TOR: Birch + 2023 FRP (protections)

Possible stealth Poeltl teams: Thunder, Suns, Kings (Richardson too).



Yeah, Toronto is sitting at #7 right now. They’re not trading that pick unless they go on a tear over the next month to climb out of the lottery.

Let's hope they pick it up some or else they're probably a favorite to get a top 2 pick because I doubt the league would be able to help themselves.

The good news is I don't think they'll intentionally tank like the second half of two seasons ago, so they'll probably maintain interest in Poeltl, but want to lottery protect their 1st.

[CGD]

I doubt Toronto trades their 1st but if they would we definitely should jump on it. I'd do it with very light protections too...like top 3 protected..

To be clear I don’t think TOR parts with their 2023 FRP unless it’s lottery protected. The goal for Spurs would be to improve the protections in their favor for 2024 and 25 if it doesn’t convey, while keeping the option of getting another pick this year if they do turn it around.

The thing about Toronto is that their prospects are very meh. I think I’d prefer the Wiseman package all other things being the same.

[Ariel]

Possible stealth Poeltl teams: Thunder, Suns, Kings (Richardson too).
I wouldn't rule out Chicago or Charlotte either. Charlotte is tanking this season, but if they're set on bouncing right back after collecting the pick (with Lamelo & Bridges back), then Poeltl would make sense for them. Likewise, if Chicago doubles down, they could really use Poeltl. It is in our interest that both those teams improve, because we need Charlotte to make the playoffs in the next 3 years, and also if Chicago gets into the lottery now then the pick they owe us in '25 gets pushed back, as their obligation to Orlando gets postponed and thus ours' too.

[CGD]

Outside of maybe Chicago I don’t think any of those other teams mentioned make sense. Jakob is a win now piece given his UFA status, so think more BOS, NOLA, DEN as the others that could be summed to GWG and TOR.

Honestly I don’t get the Raptor interest unless they know he’ll extend there given past ties. Chicago is all over the freaking place and has to be up there on the dumb dumb organizations list.

[exstatic]

To be clear I don’t think TOR parts with their 2023 FRP unless it’s lottery protected. The goal for Spurs would be to improve the protections in their favor for 2024 and 25 if it doesn’t convey, while keeping the option of getting another pick this year if they do turn it around.

The thing about Toronto is that their prospects are very meh. I think I’d prefer the Wiseman package all other things being the same.

Trading for a pick as lottery protected that sits at #7 now is basically surrendering the pick option this year. Just kick it into the future, and get 3 REAL chances at it.

[KingKev]

No team is going raw dog for Jak. He is worth a top 10 FRP max.

[Ariel]

To be clear I don’t think TOR parts with their 2023 FRP unless it’s lottery protected. The goal for Spurs would be to improve the protections in their favor for 2024 and 25 if it doesn’t convey, while keeping the option of getting another pick this year if they do turn it around.

The thing about Toronto is that their prospects are very meh. I think I’d prefer the Wiseman package all other things being the same.
Toronto has to decide if they take a step back (building around Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby & Koloko, and trading Van Vleet & Siakam) or doubling down (resigning Van Vleet and keeping Siakam, and maybe trading OG/Scottie Barnes). In the first case, then they could easily trade a protected first (say top 12) + Koloko, or 2 protected firsts, and still have enough to trade for a star.

[mo7888]

To be clear I don’t think TOR parts with their 2023 FRP unless it’s lottery protected. The goal for Spurs would be to improve the protections in their favor for 2024 and 25 if it doesn’t convey, while keeping the option of getting another pick this year if they do turn it around.

The thing about Toronto is that their prospects are very meh. I think I’d prefer the Wiseman package all other things being the same.

If tor lottery protected it then it would take 2 1sts for me to trade him there.

[Ariel]

Trading for a pick as lottery protected that sits at #7 now is basically surrendering the pick option this year. Just kick it into the future, and get 3 REAL chances at it.
Middle ground is top 12 protected, which means they're safe from a hypothetical miracle (a la Derrick Rose in Chicago), and with Poeltl aboard you'd expect them to improve right away and they're only 2 games behind Atlanta who's currently 14th, which gives you a significant chance of the pick conveying now. Where there's a will there's a way, the question is: is there a will?

[TD 21]

I wouldn't rule out Chicago or Charlotte either. Charlotte is tanking this season, but if they're set on bouncing right back after collecting the pick (with Lamelo & Bridges back), then Poeltl would make sense for them. Likewise, if Chicago doubles down, they could really use Poeltl. It is in our interest that both those teams improve, because we need Charlotte to make the playoffs in the next 3 years, and also if Chicago gets into the lottery now then the pick they owe us in '25 gets pushed back, as their obligation to Orlando gets postponed and thus ours' too.

Bulls, maybe. Hornets, that ship has probably sailed. Between Richards and Williams both showing promise, it no longer make sense to give up a relatively significant asset for Poeltl.

[KingKev]

Toronto has to decide if they take a step back (building around Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby & Koloko, and trading Van Vleet & Siakam) or doubling down (resigning Van Vleet and keeping Siakam, and maybe trading OG/Scottie Barnes). In the first case, then they could easily trade a protected first (say top 12) + Koloko, or 2 protected firsts, and still have enough to trade for a star.

You forgot GTJ. Toronto is loaded with tradeable assets and a GM who makes PATFO look like school girls. All of those assets will cost a heavy price asking for FRPs and young talent. They aren’t a trading partner unless PATFO want one less pump and dump in the way out.

[objective]

Been thinking about a Miami-SA trade based around Duncan Robinson and his awful deal

Duncan Robinson is having a terrible year. Turns 29 in April. Only logging 17.9 mpg, shooting 36.8% overall and 33.1% from 3 with terrible defense.

22-23 - $16.902
23-24 - $18.154
24-25 - $19.406
25-26 - $19.888 (only $9.888 guaranteed)

So he's one of the worst deals around, with almost $48 million still on the books after this year.

Richardson's best year was in Miami. Or they might prefer McDermott. Both guys would help them more and the Spurs can absorb the salary.

Miami pick situation:

They owe the 25 first to OKC protected 1-14 and unprotected in 2026.

They have 0 second rounders of their own until 28, they also have 29. They do have a 2026 second round pick, worst pick among OKC, Dallas or Philadelphia.

What would it be worth to Miami to both get off the money and improve albeit slightly? Maybe they would rather hold onto picks and the salary flotsam in hopes of getting a star player. And because they could go the way of loading picks onto Lowry instead, maybe it's a non starter.

But just for the thought experiment ... For the Spurs to do it, a 23 first & a 28 second to eat $48 million of trash might not be enough. Maybe he could rehabilitate his value with SA and then he traded later but I doubt it.

Maybe fold Poeltl into it, they could play him and Bam together though not ideal, but can give them the chance to have Bam as the roamer and chase guys around. Gives them a big body to go against embiid, and a better pairing against Williams/Horford.

Maybe 23 & 28 with Duncan Robinson, Dedmon, and Jovic to the Spurs for Poeltl and Richardson (or McDermott) ?

[exstatic]

Been thinking about a Miami-SA trade based around Duncan Robinson and his awful deal

Duncan Robinson is having a terrible year. Turns 29 in April. Only logging 17.9 mpg, shooting 36.8% overall and 33.1% from 3 with terrible defense.

22-23 - $16.902
23-24 - $18.154
24-25 - $19.406
25-26 - $19.888 (only $9.888 guaranteed)

So he's one of the worst deals around, with almost $48 million still on the books after this year.

Richardson's best year was in Miami. Or they might prefer McDermott. Both guys would help them more and the Spurs can absorb the salary.

Miami pick situation:

They owe the 25 first to OKC protected 1-14 and unprotected in 2026.

They have 0 second rounders of their own until 28, they also have 29. They do have a 2026 second round pick, worst pick among OKC, Dallas or Philadelphia.

What would it be worth to Miami to both get off the money and improve albeit slightly? Maybe they would rather hold onto picks and the salary flotsam in hopes of getting a star player. And because they could go the way of loading picks onto Lowry instead, maybe it's a non starter.

But just for the thought experiment ... For the Spurs to do it, a 23 first & a 28 second to eat $48 million of trash might not be enough. Maybe he could rehabilitate his value with SA and then he traded later but I doubt it.

Maybe fold Poeltl into it, they could play him and Bam together though not ideal, but can give them the chance to have Bam as the roamer and chase guys around. Gives them a big body to go against embiid, and a better pairing against Williams/Horford.

Maybe 23 & 28 with Duncan Robinson, Dedmon, and Jovic to the Spurs for Poeltl and Richardson (or McDermott) ?

Giving two or three positive assets and eating that horrible deal should cost them ALL of those first round picks, either as traded picks or swap options. Duncan Robinson is fucking useless. If you think our defense is bad now, just plug his slow ass into the lineup. He’s like a homeless man’s Bertans. No way I’m taking on that awful deal. Twelve years ago, we traded RJ to GS at the deadline with a late FRP for Stephen Jackson’s one year shorter deal, saving $10M. That was the cost of a FRP 12 years ago.

[heyheymymy]

oof that Duncan Robinson deal is so terribly sour wow. Awful production, about to turn 29 (!!!), and on the books for almost 20mm at least 2 more seasons with a 3rd lingering but diminished

[KingKev]

Lol I just read the Pistons want an unprotected FRP for Bojan. WTF.

[mo7888]

Apparently Miami is looking to acquire Russell from Minnesota and they'd need a 3rd team to take Lowry to make it happen.

[KingKev]

Apparently Miami is looking to acquire Russell from Minnesota and they'd need a 3rd team to take Lowry to make it happen.

Lowry is trash now. I remember in 2017 I beleive when he was a free agent he wanted to join the Spurs and we didn’t even pick up the phone.

Miami has nothing to offer that they are willing to part with. They really fucked up JB’s final years tbh.

[mo7888]

Lowry is trash now. I remember in 2017 I beleive when he was a free agent he wanted to join the Spurs and we didn’t even pick up the phone.

Miami has nothing to offer that they are willing to part with. They really fucked up JB’s final years tbh.

I have no idea what they'd part with but it'd be less than moving Duncan..

[CGD]

Apparently Miami is looking to acquire Russell from Minnesota and they'd need a 3rd team to take Lowry to make it happen.

Good luck with that…

I suppose the deal could be built around Russell for Herro. Herro has the poison pill thing, but I suspect the income value for Minni comes close to what they’d move out with Russell. That leaves finding a home for Lowery.

EDIT: assuming I got the poison pill thing right, *I think* this could be a framework:

SAS: Lowery, Jovic, MIA 23 & 26 FRPs
MIA: Russell
MIN: Herro

[mo7888]

Good luck with that…

I suppose the deal could be built around Russell for Herro. Herro has the poison pill thing, but I suspect the income value for Minni comes close to what they’d move out with Russell. That leaves finding a home for Lowery.

EDIT: assuming I got the poison pill thing right, *I think* this could be a framework:

SAS: Lowery, Jovic, MIA 23 & 26 FRPs
MIA: Russell
MIN: Herro

That's alot for Miami to give up for Russell... I'm not sure what Minny is looking to get out of the deal though

[KingKev]

Good luck with that…

I suppose the deal could be built around Russell for Herro. Herro has the poison pill thing, but I suspect the income value for Minni comes close to what they’d move out with Russell. That leaves finding a home for Lowery.

EDIT: assuming I got the poison pill thing right, *I think* this could be a framework:

SAS: Lowery, Jovic, MIA 23 & 26 FRPs
MIA: Russell
MIN: Herro

Dude really?

[CGD]

That's alot for Miami to give up for Russell... I'm not sure what Minny is looking to get out of the deal though

I’m not saying I like it. I simply think it’s delusional for them to believe they can just “dump” lowery onto a third team. It’ll be expensive.

I also don’t expect they’re going after Russell without some strong confidence he’ll resign there.

[CGD]

Dude really?

I mean yeah. Why else would the spurs help facilitate a Lowery dump?

[mo7888]

I’m not saying I like it. I simply think it’s delusional for them to believe they can just “dump” lowery onto a third team. It’ll be expensive.

I also don’t expect they’re going after Russell without some strong confidence he’ll resign there.

They can probably move Lowery by attaching a 1st... then they have to determine what minny wants for Russell who's an expiring contract and likely to be elsewhere next season.

[CGD]

They can probably move Lowery by attaching a 1st... then they have to determine what minny wants for Russell who's an expiring contract and likely to be elsewhere next season.

Lowery is still owed another year after this one. I think it’ll take more than a protected pick. Then the spurs should ask for a 3rd asset just for the cost of facilitating, especially bc the only real positive asset Heat has is Herro and he has that poison pill stuff.

[mo7888]

Lowery is still owed another year after this one. I think it’ll take more than a protected pick. Then the spurs should ask for a 3rd asset just for the cost of facilitating, especially bc the only real positive asset Heat has is Herro and he has that poison pill stuff.

I didn't say protected pick...but a top 3 protected pick would do it...

[Mr. Body]

Weird trade environment. There are so many decent teams, no real exceptional teams, yet no one seems to have any assets to trade to increase their chances.

[DPG21920]

Lol I just read the Pistons want an unprotected FRP for Bojan. WTF.

Hes playing great tbh and would really help teams. With the prices being paid for DJ, Mitchell, Gobert…one UFRP does not seem that outrageous. Teams will need to pay up - there are only so many sellers…

[objective]

Good luck with that…

I suppose the deal could be built around Russell for Herro. Herro has the poison pill thing, but I suspect the income value for Minni comes close to what they’d move out with Russell. That leaves finding a home for Lowery.

EDIT: assuming I got the poison pill thing right, *I think* this could be a framework:

SAS: Lowery, Jovic, MIA 23 & 26 FRPs
MIA: Russell
MIN: Herro

Miami has pick obligations that don't clear for 25 and 26, so I think other than 23 they can't trade another 1st until 28

[illusioNtEk]

bad time to trade at the moment, assests are lacking all over... seems many teams are in debt lol

[KingKev]

Dude really?

I’d do it in a heartbeat just think the other two teams say no.

[CGD]

Miami has pick obligations that don't clear for 25 and 26, so I think other than 23 they can't trade another 1st until 28

Fine by me

[Kevin]

The Heat would need to dump Lowery and Robinson to be a major player in free agency this summer. Not sure if they would be willing to part with the assets required to do that. Cant say I blame them.

[KingKev]

The Heat would need to dump Lowery and Robinson to be a major player in free agency this summer. Not sure if they would be willing to part with the assets required to do that. Cant say I blame them.

Assuming Bam, Herro and Butler are off the table they’ll need to attach heavy draft capital to unload Duncan Robinson and/or Kyle Lowry and his dumpy. They should mortgage their future to try with the hopes Dipo can stay healthy.

[Kevin]

Assuming Bam, Herro and Butler are off the table they’ll need to attach heavy draft capital to unload Duncan Robinson and/or Kyle Lowry and his dumpy. They should mortgage their future to try with the hopes Dipo can stay healthy.

Victor cant be trusted to stay healthy. He's averaged 24 games a season over the past four years and he just turned 30. On the other hand Butler is 33 and is running out of time. Tough spot because they have to dump both Lowery and Robinson to make a big move in free agency. Glad it's not my decision.

[JPB]

Good luck with that…

I suppose the deal could be built around Russell for Herro. Herro has the poison pill thing, but I suspect the income value for Minni comes close to what they’d move out with Russell. That leaves finding a home for Lowery.

EDIT: assuming I got the poison pill thing right, *I think* this could be a framework:

SAS: Lowery, Jovic, MIA 23 & 26 FRPs
MIA: Russell
MIN: Herro

Yeah, no offense but come on, that's plain robbery from the spurs.

[KingKev]

Raps and Celts interested in Hurdle per BR. We’ve been pretty good at helping non rivals win championships lately. Let’s keep it going and add a far out unprotected FRP from Bean. I’d do it in a heartbeat.


And for the sniffers, come June you can brag that the a big part of the Celtics success is PATFO’s genius.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062000-celtics-rumors-bos-has-significant-trade-interest-in-jakob-poeltl-raptors-linked

[The Truth #6]

Raps and Celts interested in Hurdle per BR. We’ve been pretty good at helping non rivals win championships lately. Let’s keep it going and add a far out unprotected FRP from Bean. I’d do it in a heartbeat.


And for the sniffers, come June you can brag that the a big part of the Celtics success is PATFO’s genius.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062000-celtics-rumors-bos-has-significant-trade-interest-in-jakob-poeltl-raptors-linked

Interesting. So Boston would just give up an unprotected first round pick? I need to look at their roster and see what other players might be in play.

[spurraider21]

oof that Duncan Robinson deal is so terribly sour wow. Awful production, about to turn 29 (!!!), and on the books for almost 20mm at least 2 more seasons with a 3rd lingering but diminished
yeah but theres also something really poetic about a guy literally named Duncan Robinson joining the spurs

[offset formation]

Interesting. So Boston would just give up an unprotected first round pick? I need to look at their roster and see what other players might be in play.

Guessing PATFO turns it down given they reportedly seem to want 2 FRPs.

I'm not sure I quite understand the devotion the Spurs have to Poeltl. He's a solid player but certainly not a game changer, even defensively where he's supposedly is at his best.

Evidence of this comes from the fact that with Poeltl, the Spurs are currently the WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM EVER ALLOWING A 119.9 DEFENSIVE RATING.

Before I get bombarded that it's not Poeltls fault, let me acknowledge that it's a team sport and they each have blame.

If you get offered a FRP, you take a FRP for him.

[Degoat]

1st + Payton Pritchard, filler for Jakob?

[NASpurs]

I'm still looking over our roster for this Jakob Hurdle guy. Might be new.

[exstatic]

yeah but theres also something really poetic about a guy literally named Duncan Robinson joining the spurs

Do.Not.Want. Don’t care what his fucking name is.

[exstatic]

Guessing PATFO turns it down given they reportedly seem to want 2 FRPs.

I'm not sure I quite understand the devotion the Spurs have to Poeltl. He's a solid player but certainly not a game changer, even defensively where he's supposedly is at his best.

Evidence of this comes from the fact that with Poeltl, the Spurs are currently the WORST DEFENSIVE TEAM EVER ALLOWING A 119.9 DEFENSIVE RATING.

Before I get bombarded that it's not Poeltls fault, let me acknowledge that it's a team sport and they each have blame.

If you get offered a FRP, you take a FRP for him.

I’m pretty sure they’d take one unprotected FRP in lieu of two protectedFRPs, which was their asking price.

[spurraider21]

Do.Not.Want. Don’t care what his fucking name is.
we are years away from contending. take on his deal if we get enough back for it. thats what our cap space is for. not for ownership to give away for some pocket cash

not that i like the specific deal discussed in the thread

[exstatic]

we are years away from contending. take on his deal if we get enough back for it. thats what our cap space is for. not for ownership to give away for some pocket cash

not that i like the specific deal discussed in the thread

For 3yrs/$49M, you’d need a handful of FRPs, like 3 minimum, since you could rent the space year by year for that. I don’t want him because I don’t believe Miami would be willing to pay enough to offload his deal, and I don’t want to take less.

[Dverde]

Considering the last two teams with #1 picks are circling the drain with us, Spurs should be looking for draft capital and future trade chips. This isn’t going to be a one year rebuild. I’d rather hold on onto McBuckets if there isn’t a good deal for him. I don’t think they are trading Poodle.

[KingKev]

Interesting. So Boston would just give up an unprotected first round pick? I need to look at their roster and see what other players might be in play.

Insurance for Horford and Williams. They could really use a third reliable big. Hurdle would probably start in place of Horford tbh and they could close out with either matchup dependent.

[Mr. Body]

Poeltl would be a great fit for Boston. He'd be a good defender, but then provide what Derrick White provides. That's a team of tunnel vision iso scorers and Poeltl can be a high-post hub for the offense and on rolls.

[Ariel]

Boston is not the best trade partner for Poeltl. They don't have any interesting youngsters, and their 1st rounders are almost 2nd rounders for the next 2/3 years at least. I'd rather the FO explore trade options with Golden State, Toronto, Chicago, and whomever can give us a first rounder in the 15-20 range (or as close to that as possible).

[KingKev]

Poeltl would be a great fit for Boston. He'd be a good defender, but then provide what Derrick White provides. That's a team of tunnel vision iso scorers and Poeltl can be a high-post hub for the offense and on rolls.

Agreed; Boston is a well oiled machine currently and Jak could step in and just do whatever is needed on any given night. Plus they need to continue to build their team despite being lux tax payers and his bird rights would be very valuable, allowing them to still access the MLE come July.

[Leetonidas]

Any Boston trade would to include RW3 imo. He is pretty injury prone but has solid upside and is on a team friendly contract for a few more years. Spurs would ask for him in any deal with Boston

[CGD]

Interesting. So Boston would just give up an unprotected first round pick? I need to look at their roster and see what other players might be in play.

Question about BOS: can they use Gallos 6M for marching purposes in a trade with the team that waived him earlier in the year?

If so that makes it easier to match Jakob’s deal. Gallo/Griffen gets you there for example. Otherwise I don’t see it without dumping a player that helps them now.

[CGD]

Poeltl would be a great fit for Boston. He'd be a good defender, but then provide what Derrick White provides. That's a team of tunnel vision iso scorers and Poeltl can be a high-post hub for the offense and on rolls.

Absolutely. If they can match salaries, BOS could be a good match. They have all their FRPs after this year (minus the swap to us in 2028). They also have the rockets and blazers SRP this year.

Another thing to watch is Jalen Brown could be gone after summer 2024, meaning picks that come after may be come enticing than they are now.

[exstatic]

Boston is not the best trade partner for Poeltl. They don't have any interesting youngsters, and their 1st rounders are almost 2nd rounders for the next 2/3 years at least. I'd rather the FO explore trade options with Golden State, Toronto, Chicago, and whomever can give us a first rounder in the 15-20 range (or as close to that as possible).

Nothing says the pick has to be this year or next. Kick it down the road 3-5 years. Atlanta’s picks last year were 3,4, and 5 years out.

[exstatic]

Question about BOS: can they use Gallos 6M for marching purposes in a trade with the team that waived him earlier in the year?

If so that makes it easier to match Jakob’s deal. Gallo/Griffen gets you there for example. Otherwise I don’t see it without dumping a player that helps them now.

I’m pretty sure Gallo can’t return for a year from his cut date.

[TD 21]

Insurance for Horford and Williams. They could really use a third reliable big. Hurdle would probably start in place of Horford tbh and they could close out with either matchup dependent.

:lmao At thinking R. Williams and Poeltl could/would play together.


Question about BOS: can they use Gallos 6M for marching purposes in a trade with the team that waived him earlier in the year?

If so that makes it easier to match Jakob’s deal. Gallo/Griffen gets you there for example. Otherwise I don’t see it without dumping a player that helps them now.

The Celtics aren't trading a rotational player. Either Gallinari's salary could be used in a three team trade or they could combine Griffin, Kornet and Jackson to match salaries, with their '25, '27 and '29 1sts available for trade.

They might be willing to offer looser protection than any other given that they're already the best team in the league and R. Williams' lack of durability is arguably their biggest issue.

[Seventyniner]

yeah but theres also something really poetic about a guy literally named Duncan Robinson joining the spurs

If it does happen he should wear #71.

[Ariel]

:lmao At thinking R. Williams and Poeltl could/would play together.



The Celtics aren't trading a rotational player. Either Gallinari's salary could be used in a three team trade or they could combine Griffin, Kornet and Jackson to match salaries, with their '25, '27 and '29 1sts available for trade.

They might be willing to offer looser protection than any other given that they're already the best team in the league and R. Williams' lack of durability is arguably their biggest issue.
Yeah, if Poeltl is insurance for anyone, it's for Robert Williams, whose extremely unreliable availability looms over their championship aspirations.
'25 doesn't seem like a good year for a pick, taking into consideration we already have up to 4 picks that year (own + Atlanta + Chicago? -subject to protections- + Charlotte? -if not conveyed before-) and since they can't trade '24 (traded their '23 pick in the Brogdon trade) and '28 (actually they can but it's the pick we own swap rights on), leaving '26, '27 and '29. Given the glut of picks owed to us in '25 and the development process, that would leave '27 and '29 as ideal candidates for a far out, unprotected pick from Boston. I believe Brad Stevens would do that, considering he gave up an (almost) unprotected swap for Derrick White.

[CGD]

I’m pretty sure Gallo can’t return for a year from his cut date.

This sounds right to me, but it’s also not the situation where a team cuts a player and later resigns him without anything happening in between (I think we did that with Brent Barry). Here another team signed Gallo after we cut him so he has a new deal.

But I do think you have it right, but makes matching salaries with BOS a lot harder.

[CGD]

:lmao At thinking R. Williams and Poeltl could/would play together.



The Celtics aren't trading a rotational player. Either Gallinari's salary could be used in a three team trade or they could combine Griffin, Kornet and Jackson to match salaries, with their '25, '27 and '29 1sts available for trade.

They might be willing to offer looser protection than any other given that they're already the best team in the league and R. Williams' lack of durability is arguably their biggest issue.

Griffen, Jackson, and Kornet doesn’t get you enough to match for Jakob. They need either Gallo or Grant included, but the former is complicated by our having waived him already.

[exstatic]

Yeah, if Poeltl is insurance for anyone, it's for Robert Williams, whose extremely unreliable availability looms over their championship aspirations.
'25 doesn't seem like a good year for a pick, taking into consideration we already have up to 4 picks that year (own + Atlanta + Chicago? -subject to protections- + Charlotte? -if not conveyed before-) and since they can't trade '24 (traded their '23 pick in the Brogdon trade) and '28 (actually they can but it's the pick we own swap rights on), leaving '26, '27 and '29. Given the glut of picks owed to us in '25 and the development process, that would leave '27 and '29 as ideal candidates for a far out, unprotected pick from Boston. I believe Brad Stevens would do that, considering he gave up an (almost) unprotected swap for Derrick White.

There could be as many as 4 FRPs in 2025, or as few as 2. Only ours and Atlanta's are sure things. Charlottes may convey in 2024, and Chicagos may not convey in its first oppo in 2025. If Chicago doesn’t convey their pick to Orlando this year, but do next year, our clock with them won’t even start until 2026.

[Ariel]

This sounds right to me, but it’s also not the situation where a team cuts a player and later resigns him without anything happening in between (I think we did that with Brent Barry). Here another team signed Gallo after we cut him so he has a new deal.

But I do think you have it right, but makes matching salaries with BOS a lot harder.
Boston has a couple more days to use an exception they got from the Hernangomez trade, they could use that if they REALLY wanted Poeltl, but they'd have to do so by Thursday. Still, they're over the luxury tax threshold meaning whatever salary they take they pay 3x in tax, and given their recent cost cutting move with us, I'm not sure they're eager to add to the payroll.

[TD 21]

Griffen, Jackson, and Kornet doesn’t get you enough to match for Jakob. They need either Gallo or Grant included, but the former is complicated by our having waived him already.

Yeah, then it'd have to be Gallinari going to a third team for some other contract. No chance they'd trade G. Williams.

[Ariel]

There could be as many as 4 FRPs in 2025, or as few as 2. Only ours and Atlanta's are sure things. Charlottes may convey in 2024, and Chicagos may not convey in its first oppo in 2025. If Chicago doesn’t convey their pick to Orlando this year, but do next year, our clock with them won’t even start until 2026.
I know, which is why I listed their protected status. Still, if you quickly go over those protections, you'll realize '25 is the likeliest year for both to convey, given that Charlotte is unlikely to make the playoffs this year or next (pick's protected 16/14/14) and for Chicago not to convey their '25 pick they'd have to fall into the top 4 this year (26% chance right now and decreasing) or into the top 10 in '25 (possible, but not the most likely scenario). So I'd say chances are we get AT LEAST one of the 2 in '25, and you can't ignore it and expect to deal with such a mess when the time comes.

[CGD]

Boston has a couple more days to use an exception they got from the Hernangomez trade, they could use that if they REALLY wanted Poeltl, but they'd have to do so by Thursday. Still, they're over the luxury tax threshold meaning whatever salary they take they pay 3x in tax, and given their recent cost cutting move with us, I'm not sure they're eager to add to the payroll.

Yeah I saw that, but the exception is only around 6.5M and not large enough to fit Jakob.

The team that has a nice exception to slot him is in Denver, but what they lack are picks.

[scott]

I know, which is why I listed their protected status. Still, if you quickly go over those protections, you'll realize '25 is the likeliest year for both to convey, given that Charlotte is unlikely to make the playoffs this year or next (pick's protected 16/14/14) and for Chicago not to convey their '25 pick they'd have to fall into the top 4 this year (26% chance right now and decreasing) or into the top 10 in '25 (possible, but not the most likely scenario). So I'd say chances are we get AT LEAST one of the 2 in '25, and you can't ignore it and expect to deal with such a mess when the time comes.

In a scenario where we have 5 FRPs in 2025, we could always trade them to punt down the road or if we’ve drafted our “star” by then we could always trade them for a useful role player on a team now ready to start competing. While I agree 5 FRPs in one year would not be ideal, it is not an unmanageable situation.

[Ariel]

In a scenario where we have 5 FRPs in 2025, we could always trade them to punt down the road or if we’ve drafted our “star” by then we could always trade them for a useful role player on a team now ready to start competing. While I agree 5 FRPs in one year would not be ideal, it is not an unmanageable situation.
Sure, but if you have a choice why not set things up properly from the start? Besides, even if it's manageable it doesn't come without a cost: every team knows you can't accommodate that many picks in any given season (in fact, more than 2 picks at once is usually too much), and that sets you in a position of weakness from the start, which is never good. So it should be a priority of the FO to plan the incoming picks ahead, whenever possible... and when not, then yes, as you say it's still an asset to flip later on. But it'd be stupid to CHOOSE so from the start if it can be avoided.

[scott]

Sure, but if you have a choice why not set things up properly from the start? Besides, even if it's manageable it doesn't come without a cost: every team knows you can't accommodate that many picks in any given season (in fact, more than 2 picks at once is usually too much), and that sets you in a position of weakness from the start, which is never good. So it should be a priority of the FO to plan the incoming picks ahead, whenever possible... and when not, then yes, as you say it's still an asset to flip later on. But it'd be stupid to CHOOSE so from the start if it can be avoided.

For sure, but if you look from Boston’s POV, they may value the 25 pick less because it more squarely fits into this currently window whereas further out gets a little murkier. So if you have a choice between an unprotected FRP in 25, or a top 8 protected in 27, which do you prefer in that scenario?

But because we have so many picks already, maybe swaps become more valuable? Instead of 1 FRP, maybe 2-3 unprotected swaps is the capital we acquire?

It’s all fun strategic message board fodder at this point.

[Ariel]

https://theathletic.com/4101845/2023/01/18/celtics-trade-jakob-poeltl/

Boston has maintained an interest in Poeltl for several seasons now and is continuing to monitor his market, according to team sources who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly. The sticking point has been, as always, price. San Antonio has made it known to interested parties throughout the league the Spurs want two first-round picks for Poeltl, according to team and league sources, which was the same stance they took on Derrick White last season. The Celtics were able to acquire White for what ended up being the 25th pick in the most recent draft and a first-overall protected pick swap in 2028. Though Boston lost only one pick in aggregate, that swap is so far into the future the two franchises could plausibly be in polar opposite positions from today. Netting two firsts for a center on an expiring contract and expecting a big raise seems implausible, but it at least sets the bar high enough for San Antonio to come away with a first-rounder and some change for Poeltl. There is no impetus for the franchise to deal Poeltl, as the Spurs have the financial flexibility to give him a four-year deal and still have spending power. The Spurs would love to pair Poeltl with vaunted prospect Victor Wembanyama if they win the lottery, and would only move Poetl if they received an offer too good to pass up, ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski reported last weekend. But they currently sit at 12.5 percent odds to win the lottery and know they can’t make decisions at this deadline, presuming they’ll even land in the top three

[Mr. Body]

What teams can even trade two firsts?

[Ariel]

What teams can even trade two firsts?
I haven't gone through every team, but among those where Poeltl could conceivable be of even marginal interest, then Boston, Toronto, Lakers, Phoenix -if they deal Ayton-, Charlotte -if they want to bounce right back next year-. Golden State seems to be unable to trade until '28 (but could do 1 pick + swap), same as Chicago (1 pick -Portland's- + swap). But in any case I don't think it should be taken literally, it's a broad guideline for a contending team to start a negotiation, it may be 1 pick + 1 swap, or 1 unprotected far out, or 1 pick + 1 prospect, or 1 good young player + a second... it's all contingent on the situation. If you constraint yourself too much then options dwindle and price goes down. I think they're mostly putting out there the message that they're not dumping Poeltl, and that if anyone expects to get him for a single lowly first + garbage, they better think again. Which is correct, IMO.

[LeBowen]

Imo, to get two picks Spurs would have to take a bad contract, which shouldn't be an issue.

I still think he should be resigned. Finding a solid big is really hard these days and anyone who's remotely good wants a massive contract, which usually doesn't end well because unless you're an MVP level big, it's not worth it.
Give Jakob like 75/4 and be done with it.

Long term, I'd really like Spurs to try and get Garland, he'd be a perfect fit. I don't think him and Mitchell can play together and they'd eat most of Cavs' cap space. Maybe try for it in the summer if we don't get Scoot.


Right now, the most important thing is to get rid of Doug and JRich. Keeping them for the rest of the season would be really bad.

[wildbill2u]

Sign Poertle to an extension soon because we can't just get Wemby by hoping. There will be time to trade Poetle in the future if necessary. He's a good player and probably would sign a reasonable new contract to play here.

[mo7888]

Sign Poertle to an extension soon because we can't just get Wemby by hoping. There will be time to trade Poetle in the future if necessary. He's a good player and probably would sign a reasonable new contract to play here.

He won't sign an extension because he can get more in FA.

[LeBowen]

He won't sign an extension because he can get more in FA.

Good teams don't have cap space, everyone that does isn't any better than the Spurs, moving to another rebuilding team would make no sense for him.
Trade or S&T are his only options to get himself to a contender. Or taking a big paycut, because no team that's tight on cap space would give him 20 per year.

[KingKev]

My thoughts on Jak:

- no fking way you are getting two FRPs for an expiring player who is about to get 18+ a year and that request is clear posturing by PATFO
- the time to trade him was last deadline or this summer and once again we missed the boat
- given few teams will have >MLE money to spend this summer we can likely still get something back for him this summer via S&T; hopefully better than the sh!t sandwich we got in the DDR S&T but probably comparable
- there is little reason to re-sign Jak at current market value. Giving him 20mm means we will have near 75mm tied up in Vassell, KJ, Tre Jones and Jak come 2024. That is a great bench mob but hardly a winning combo as your top players
- we probably won’t land Wemby and PATFO will reduce the odds from 14% to significantly less for their own stupid moral/culture bullsh!t reason come March but trading Jak now will make it harder for PATFO to fk up the 2023 lottery/draft


a far out FRP with limited protection would be ideal even if we have to take back bad money for a year or two

[mo7888]

Good teams don't have cap space, everyone that does isn't any better than the Spurs, moving to another rebuilding team would make no sense for him.
Trade or S&T are his only options to get himself to a contender. Or taking a big paycut, because no team that's tight on cap space would give him 20 per year.
Jak is about to get paid...well north of what an extension would be...that's the reality here.... now what we decide to do...trade...resign...s&t...all of that is up for debate but he's getting his money...

[LeBowen]

Jak is about to get paid...well north of what an extension would be...that's the reality here.... now what we decide to do...trade...resign...s&t...all of that is up for debate but he's getting his money...

Salary cap next season will be at 134 million. Let's assume Jakob wants 20.

Who's taking him from these teams? Second column are salaries for next season.

https://i.imgur.com/IqgNJus.png


Utah, Minnesota, Orlando, Sacramento, Lakers are definitely not taking him.
I doubt Presti would overpay for Jakob and bottom 5 would be a lateral move.

He might leave, but he's no getting paid if he goes to a good team.

[lmbebo]

Salary cap next season will be at 134 million. Let's assume Jakob wants 20.

Who's taking him from these teams? Second column are salaries for next season.

https://i.imgur.com/IqgNJus.png


Utah, Minnesota, Orlando, Sacramento, Lakers are definitely not taking him.
I doubt Presti would overpay for Jakob and bottom 5 would be a lateral move.

He might leave, but he's no getting paid if he goes to a good team.


sign and trade is always possible ala Demarr, etc

[CGD]

sign and trade is always possible ala Demarr, etc

Good point. The other is the role of Byrd Rights especially if Jakob has given spurs a list of teams he’d re-sign for now.

[mo7888]

Salary cap next season will be at 134 million. Let's assume Jakob wants 20.

Who's taking him from these teams? Second column are salaries for next season.

https://i.imgur.com/IqgNJus.png


Utah, Minnesota, Orlando, Sacramento, Lakers are definitely not taking him.
I doubt Presti would overpay for Jakob and bottom 5 would be a lateral move.

He might leave, but he's no getting paid if he goes to a good team.

He'll get between 18 and 20M.... Who pulls the trigger I don't know but the team that does will clear the requisite space either with us or elsewhere.. It happens every summer and this is no different..

[TD 21]

I think they're mostly putting out there the message that they're not dumping Poeltl, and that if anyone expects to get him for a single lowly first + garbage, they better think again. Which is correct, IMO.

Exactly. Probably specifically directed at the Craptors.

The only cap space team who makes sense for Poeltl is the Thunder, so the Spurs have the leverage to play hard ball with the teams we've heard bandied about.


I still think he should be resigned. Finding a solid big is really hard these days

It's actually probably easier than ever. Only the Hornets, Mavericks, Thunder, Craptors appear to have a question mark in the middle and two (Hornets and Thunder) might have internal options.

[Seventyniner]

Even if the Spurs don't trade or extend Poeltl this season, that doesn't mean they have to lose him for nothing. They can re-sign him or sign-and-trade him in the offseason. No need to panic if the Spurs can't get their asking price by the trade deadline.

[PhantomDashCam]

Even if the Spurs don't trade or extend Poeltl this season, that doesn't mean they have to lose him for nothing. They can re-sign him or sign-and-trade him in the offseason. No need to panic if the Spurs can't get their asking price by the trade deadline.

Think this is the most likely scenario tbh.
Unless they're blown away by offers, can't see them moving him at the deadline, especially with timvp's Wemby intel.

The draft lottery is likely to change the movements of many teams, Spurs included.

The player that fascinates me as far as future prognostications are concerned is Tre Jones.
His contract ($1.782~ expiring) makes him difficult to trade outright but paired with a Josh Richardson or Doug McBuckets; I would think there would be many a team that would be interested in his services.
Whether that is of interest to PATFO is another question entirely but they have shown the ability to move off some of their favorites in recent years.

[KingKev]

Think this is the most likely scenario tbh.
Unless they're blown away by offers, can't see them moving him at the deadline, especially with timvp's Wemby intel.

The draft lottery is likely to change the movements of many teams, Spurs included.

The player that fascinates me as far as future prognostications are concerned is Tre Jones.
His contract ($1.782~ expiring) makes him difficult to trade outright but paired with a Josh Richardson or Doug McBuckets; I would think there would be many a team that would be interested in his services.
Whether that is of interest to PATFO is another question entirely but they have shown the ability to move off some of their favorites in recent years.

Like it or not we are probably going to have to pay/overpay Tre Jones. PG is an important position; even for a terrible, talentless team like ourselves. Sochan will never be a PG and Wesley is 2 yrs away from being 2 yrs away so unless we draft a solid PG or overpay a vet Tre Jones is running point for the foreseeable future.

[mo7888]

Like it or not we are probably going to have to pay/overpay Tre Jones. PG is an important position; even for a terrible, talentless team like ourselves. Sochan will never be a PG and Wesley is 2 yrs away from being 2 yrs away so unless we draft a solid PG or overpay a vet Tre Jones is running point for the foreseeable future.

This is probably correct re: Tre... I think there's a real chance that we draft one though if we don't hit the Wembanyama lottery. I also wonder about trades or reclamation projects..and since he was brought up on another thread.. so let me ask y'all how do you compare Tre to a guy like Hayes in Detroit...or any other reclamation projects out there that you think we can acquire cheap?

[KingKev]

This is probably correct re: Tre... I think there's a real chance that we draft one though if we don't hit the Wembanyama lottery. I also wonder about trades or reclamation projects..and since he was brought up on another thread.. so let me ask y'all how do you compare Tre to a guy like Hayes in Detroit...or any other reclamation projects out there that you think we can acquire cheap?

Personally, I’d rather just pay Tre. He earned it, our cap space is infinite these days and hopefully he can move to a full-time quality backup if we get a true starter. I’m also not against throwing Wesley into the mud the last 40 games of the season he can sustain the hell Pop typically reigns on points.

[mo7888]

Personally, I’d rather just pay Tre. He earned it, our cap space is infinite these days and hopefully he can move to a full-time quality backup if we get a true starter. I’m also not against throwing Wesley into the mud the last 40 games of the season he can sustain the hell Pop typically reigns on points.

I think Tre is better than Hayes and I think there's some upside to explore there as well. I don't want to get carried away with it or anything but I think he can develop more. Ultimately, for me, it comes down to what direction we want to go after the draft? Are we going to start trying to win again or tank another year?

[PhantomDashCam]

Like it or not we are probably going to have to pay/overpay Tre Jones. PG is an important position; even for a terrible, talentless team like ourselves. Sochan will never be a PG and Wesley is 2 yrs away from being 2 yrs away so unless we draft a solid PG or overpay a vet Tre Jones is running point for the foreseeable future.

From what I've seen so far this season, the Spurs have taken a by committee approach to PG whenever Tre Jones is off the court (and even sometimes when he is on it).

Tre is a very good player but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with him being a Full-Time Helm-er (something he's likely earned), with a team that's mediocre from distance Offensively and/or lacks significant impact players Defensively.

[KingKev]

From what I've seen so far this season, the Spurs have taken a by committee approach to PG whenever Tre Jones is off the court (and even sometimes when he is on it).

Tre is a very good player but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with him being a Full-Time Helm-er (something he's likely earned), with a team that's mediocre from distance Offensively and/or lacks significant impact players Defensively.

The way I see it, the same way Doig McDermott is important as a guy who can shoot the three and move well without the ball, we need a semi traditional PG to run an offence. Backup point can he shared by committee but unless you have a guy like DDR or Manu you can’t get away with not having a true PG so I think that gives Tre a strong likelihood of being retained at a value near or even >MLE.

[Ariel]

The way I see it, the same way Doig McDermott is important as a guy who can shoot the three and move well without the ball, we need a semi traditional PG to run an offence. Backup point can he shared by committee but unless you have a guy like DDR or Manu you can’t get away with not having a true PG so I think that gives Tre a strong likelihood of being retained at a value near or even >MLE.
That sounds WAAAY too high for Tre IMO. For one, his role is artificially inflated by being gifted the helm of a tanking team without any other PG. In no other context would he be getting the minutes or chances he's getting on the Spurs. That's sure to count for anyone interested in him, which is why I don't see a huge market for him just yet. If he is smart (which he seems to be) he'd be much better served taking a team friendly 3 year deal which allows him to grow with the team, and he'll eventually get his big payday in few years. Or he could go somewhere for a few extra bucks and get buried or exposed. I'd give up some money to continue with the Spurs if I were him (3 yrs / 20-25M? maybe last year PO?).

[baknedkly]

I came up with this trade about a month ago on the trade machine and it was successful. I know some people aren’t high on the warriors players but they are young and would actually have a chance to thrive with playing time. The games I’ve seen they have actually started playing well of late before their injuries. This trade would give the Spurs much needed size and athleticism and Kuminga would give us a defensive player in a Wiggins mold. Wiseman started playing defense better and with more playing time and some tutoring from David Robinson should get him were he needs to be. Baldwin’s 3 point shooting would replace McDermott’s shooting.
© SUCCESS
Spurs
+4 players ($17.6m) +1 pick,
Cap Impact - $7.4M
JaMychal Green
PF. 6' 8"
James Wiseman
C, 7’0”
Jonathan Kuminga
PF 6'8"
Patrick Baldwin Jr.
SF 6' 9"
2023 - Round 1 Top 3 Protected


Warriors
+3 players ($23.1m) +1 pick,
Cap Impact + $3.7 M
Doug McDermott
SF 6' 7"
Jakob Poeltl
C, 7' 1"
Keita Bates-Diop
SF 6' 8"
2023 - Round 1
via CHA

Cut JaMychal Green or reroute him somewhere else. Also we are essentially trading the Charlotte pick for a guaranteed 1st round pick from Golden State which is only top 3 protected. They can go all the way but their play could also end up giving us another lottery pick, especially if they suffer more and more injuries. I like Jakob but it is malpractice not to trade him just because you hope to win the Wembanyama lottery based on an at best 14% chance. If we do win Wembanyama then the Spurs still have cap room to sign Jakob to whatever deal they want in free agency even without having bird rights.

[KingKev]

That sounds WAAAY too high for Tre IMO. For one, his role is artificially inflated by being gifted the helm of a tanking team without any other PG. In no other context would he be getting the minutes or chances he's getting on the Spurs. That's sure to count for anyone interested in him, which is why I don't see a huge market for him just yet. If he is smart (which he seems to be) he'd be much better served taking a team friendly 3 year deal which allows him to grow with the team, and he'll eventually get his big payday in few years. Or he could go somewhere for a few extra bucks and get buried or exposed. I'd give up some money to continue with the Spurs if I were him (3 yrs / 20-25M? maybe last year PO?).

3yrs 25mm is basically what I described above. MLE is the higher end of what a team could throw at him which is 10.5mm

[Ariel]

Golden State owes its '24 1st to Memphis, and thus cannot trade their '23 1st. Also WAAAY too optimistic.

[Mr. Body]

Lol, no contender can trade any picks. It's amazing.

[MultiTroll]

Pop, KJ, Pootle, Richardson and McDermott and the Spurs #1 pick protected
for
Jokic, Murray

[baknedkly]

Golden State owes its '24 1st to Memphis, and thus cannot trade their '23 1st. Also WAAAY too optimistic.

Yes it’s optimistic but like I said I came up with it about a month ago before Steph got hurt and their young picks actually started getting playing time and showing promise. Before then this trade could have been plausible because we’re now taking the chance on the young players who had not shown anything through the beginning of their third season. Golden State would have been getting the better players and actual veterans that could fit seamlessly into the team and help them. After Steph got injured Kuminga started showing Wiggins-type defensive ability and Baldwin in limited time started showing 3point sniper ability. Even Wiseman started showing promise in the games he was in which is why I wanted to do the trade before Steph got injured and Golden State was forced to give their young players actual playing time. I figured eventually with playing time they would show something and being in San Antonio with the players we have they could get all the playing time they need. We are not going for championships right now and could afford to play and develop them through their mistakes.

Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also. After I revised the trade it no longer mentioned it. We do that and we can get their pick because otherwise we start having to wait on their pick conveying to Memphis and then after that we’d have to wait 2 years more before they could trade their own pick.

[Ariel]

Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also.
In your scenario Golden State would owe picks in consecutive years (even if restricted), whereas the Charlotte pick they'd be getting isn't guaranteed to convey in '23 or '24 (in fact it's very likely it doesn't in either year). That means they're not guaranteed a pick for 2 years in a row (there's a pathway to them not getting one), which violates the Stepien rule. It's a no go.

[Ariel]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

San Antonio Spurs

Trade meter: 10

What to watch: Cap space and the veterans

There is no shortage of deadline deal options for the Spurs.

As the trade with the Celtics in early January confirmed, San Antonio is open to taking back unwanted contracts if cash or draft picks are attached. The Spurs still have $27.7 million cap space and an open roster spot, so they do not have to send out a comparable contract in a deal.

For example, San Antonio could take on Russell Westbrook's salary in a trade by sending out Doug McDermott, Jakob Poeltl and Josh Richardson, and not have to come within 125% of matching Westbrook's contract.

San Antonio is also $15.9 million below the minimum salary floor (90% of the cap). If the Spurs do not reach the floor, they have to distribute the shortfall among their own players. It should be noted that the salary owed to a player at the time and not his cap hit counts toward the floor.

The Spurs currently have the seventh-youngest roster in the NBA and two veterans -- Poeltl and Richardson -- who are on expiring contracts.

Poeltl is one of the more coveted trade candidates but has had some slippage this season defensively. Last season, Poeltl held opponents to 54.8% shooting at the rim per Second Spectrum tracking, a mark that has jumped to 63.9% in 2022-23. In addition, opponents have shot 49.6% when Poeltl contests any shot attempt this season. Last season, that figure was 46.0%.

If the return package is below average for Poeltl, San Antonio can hold on to the center until the offseason and explore sign-and-trade options, similar to what occurred in 2021 with DeMar DeRozan.

Front-office trade history: Before last season, San Antonio had made only one regular-season trade since 2014. Last January and February, the Spurs made four, acquiring four draft picks, including two firsts.

Last regular-season trade: Traded Derrick White to the Celtics for Richardson, Romeo Langford, a 2022 first-round pick (Blake Wesley) and the right to swap firsts in 2028 (top-one protected)

Trade we would like to see: A three-team trade with San Antonio, New York and Phoenix. The Spurs receive Dario Saric, Evan Fournier, a 2023 top-14-protected first (via Washington) and a 2024 top-14-protected first from Phoenix (will turn into a 2024 and 2025 second-round picks if not conveyed). Phoenix will receive Jakob Poeltl and Cam Reddish. New York will receive Jae Crowder and Josh Okogie.

Trade exceptions: None

Cash available: $6.4 million (to send out), $4.83 million (to receive)

Salary info and restrictions:

The Spurs have $27.8 million in available cap space and an open roster spot.

Keldon Johnson has a poison-pill restriction in his contract. For trade purposes, he counts as $3.8 million in outgoing salary and $15.6 million in incoming salary for the acquiring team.

Stanley Johnson cannot be traded.

Draft assets:

The Spurs have their own first in the next seven years.

The Spurs are owed a first-round pick from Charlotte.

The pick is top-16 protected in 2023 and top-14 protected in 2024 and 2025.

The Spurs are owed unprotected first-round picks from Atlanta in 2025 and 2027.

The Spurs also have the right to swap firsts in 2026. If Chicago sends a first to Orlando in 2023, then the Spurs will receive a 2025 top-10-protected first-round pick from the Bulls.

The pick is top-eight protected in 2026, 2027 and 2028.

San Antonio has the right to swap firsts with Boston in 2028.

The pick is top-one protected.

The Spurs have 13 second-round picks available to use in a trade.

[Ariel]

https://theathletic.com/4089003/2023/01/19/warriors-trade-scenarios-kuminga-wiseman/

Warriors Prioritizing Addition Of Wing Over Extra Big Man

The Golden State Warriors have more interest in adding a multi-positional wing than an extra big man, sources tell Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

The Warriors expect to have either Draymond Green or Kevon Looney, or both on the floor during nearly every playoff minute, which decreases the need for depth at the position.

Otto Porter Jr. fit the role of the kind of wing they're looking for last season.

Jalen McDaniels, Darius Bazley, Rui Hachimura and Obi Toppin are players that would be well suited for the role and all are reportedly available, but the price would likely be too steep for the Warriors.

The Warriors may instead have better luck on the buyout market.

[Mr. Body]

Warriors got lucky facing no good or only crippled bigs in the playoffs last year. May not be so lucky this time.

[exstatic]

Yes it’s optimistic but like I said I came up with it about a month ago before Steph got hurt and their young picks actually started getting playing time and showing promise. Before then this trade could have been plausible because we’re now taking the chance on the young players who had not shown anything through the beginning of their third season. Golden State would have been getting the better players and actual veterans that could fit seamlessly into the team and help them. After Steph got injured Kuminga started showing Wiggins-type defensive ability and Baldwin in limited time started showing 3point sniper ability. Even Wiseman started showing promise in the games he was in which is why I wanted to do the trade before Steph got injured and Golden State was forced to give their young players actual playing time. I figured eventually with playing time they would show something and being in San Antonio with the players we have they could get all the playing time they need. We are not going for championships right now and could afford to play and develop them through their mistakes.

Also if I’m not mistaken we can get the pick from Golden State as in the trade above even though they owe Memphis their pick in 24. It’s why I included our protected Charlotte pick in the trade. That pick isn’t going to convey this season and I doubt it will convey next season so it’s in our best interest to trade it because if it doesn’t convey after next season then in 24-25 it becomes 2 seconds. We bypass the Stepien Rule by giving them that pick so they are able to give us their pick. As long as there is a pick in place for them this year then they’re able to trade their pick. Essentially it’s a pick swap with protections on both. When I first did the trade without sending a pick it mentioned the Stepien Rule for Golden State but after I added the Charlotte pick to the trade then it went away. Based on my understanding of the Stepien Rule you can trade your own pick in back to back seasons if you have somebody else’s pick also. After I revised the trade it no longer mentioned it. We do that and we can get their pick because otherwise we start having to wait on their pick conveying to Memphis and then after that we’d have to wait 2 years more before they could trade their own pick.

That only works if Charlottes pick is unprotected, and guaranteed to convey. A conditional pick doesn’t satisfy the requirement.

[CGD]

https://theathletic.com/4089003/2023/01/19/warriors-trade-scenarios-kuminga-wiseman/

Warriors Prioritizing Addition Of Wing Over Extra Big Man

The Golden State Warriors have more interest in adding a multi-positional wing than an extra big man, sources tell Anthony Slater of The Athletic.

The Warriors expect to have either Draymond Green or Kevon Looney, or both on the floor during nearly every playoff minute, which decreases the need for depth at the position.

Otto Porter Jr. fit the role of the kind of wing they're looking for last season.

Jalen McDaniels, Darius Bazley, Rui Hachimura and Obi Toppin are players that would be well suited for the role and all are reportedly available, but the price would likely be too steep for the Warriors.

The Warriors may instead have better luck on the buyout market.

I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

I kinda think I would.

[Mr. Body]

I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

I kinda think I would.

Poeltl is a good upgrade on Looney.

And absolutely fucking not on giving up any assets for Wiseman. Are you cracked?

[mo7888]

I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

I kinda think I would.

Wiseman isn't an asset or target....he's salary ballast....you don't pay for ballast..

[exstatic]

I never really understood their rumored interest in Jakob with Looney there. A prioritization of a wing like this makes more sense to me.

Would Spurs attach one or both of the 2024 LAL SRP and 2025 CHI SRP with Doug or Richardson in order to bring in Wiseman? Would they go as far as to attach the 23 CHA FRP?

I kinda think I would.

Wiseman.Is.Trash.

Thank you for attending my TEDtalk.

[CGD]

Wiseman isn't an asset or target....he's salary ballast....you don't pay for ballast..

I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.

[mo7888]

I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.

Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..

[JPB]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

"For example, San Antonio could take on Russell Westbrook's salary in a trade by sending out Doug McDermott, Jakob Poeltl and Josh Richardson, and not have to come within 125% of matching Westbrook's contract.".
ESPN daydreaming about Wright becoming the worst GM in NBA history to help the desperate Lakers.

[Ariel]

Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..
Also, Wiseman's rookie deal is about to enter its last year at around 12M, so it's not like you've got him tied long term at a cheap deal waiting for his development. Any 2nd rounder can be had for MUCH, MUCH cheaper. These times the first round is mostly about potential, but usually in the early 2nd there are older prospects to be had who can be very solid players for a long time, who can give you performance right out of the gates at a bargain price (Dillon Brooks, Jalen Brunson, Mitchell Robinson, Terance Mann, Herb Jones, Nembhard), or other players whose potential may not be that high but can grow to be good role players for a long time (Jarred Vanderbilt, Nic Claxton, Tre Jones, Ayo Dosunmu, etc). IMO that's where you find value these days in the 2nd round, and this year we're likely having a very good 2nd rounder which can be used to snatch someone like that.
Summing up, Wiseman is too raw and expensive and he may leave too soon, for any such move to be worth it IMO.

[exstatic]

I get it. I just wonder if flipping an expiring (Richardson) and say the CHI 2025 SRP to get a look at Wiseman, isn’t better value for that SRP than is just drafting Wisekamf 2.0 (with all due respect to Joe).

I’m concerned teams are already tagging Richardson as a buy out guy and that the Spurs aren’t going to get the value we think they are for him.

Richardson enjoys playing for Pop and the Spurs. He looked genuinely downcast at the exit media day last year, because I think he was told that he’d be shopped. I doubt he’d press for a buyout, and the Spurscertainly won’t need the cap savings. Maybe this is the year we start holding the line on buyouts.

[Seventyniner]

Richardson enjoys playing for Pop and the Spurs. He looked genuinely downcast at the exit media day last year, because I think he was told that he’d be shopped. I doubt he’d press for a buyout, and the Spurscertainly won’t need the cap savings. Maybe this is the year we start holding the line on buyouts.

I also hope the Spurs don't buy out Richardson. It could give them some leverage in trade scenarios too, if the Spurs say there won't be a buyout and other teams believe it.

[CGD]

Theoretically speaking, if you knew the srp was going ti be weiskamp then you'd have a point ... however the srp could be Manu.... and while the odds of that are low they aren't as low as the odds that Wiseman becomes great at this point in his career....

If you can get Wiseman as ballast in a bigger deal and try to explore extracting something then fine...but don't give up an asset for that..

Fair enough, I’ll just note that for every Tre Jones there are 3 George McClintocks.

You know what I just pieced together between this exchange and with ESPN is ginning up its “Bonny has a real shot at making the NBA!” narrative? Owning that LAL 2024 SRP now acquires its own special value. Im holding on to that one if I’m the spurs!!

[CGD]

Richardson enjoys playing for Pop and the Spurs. He looked genuinely downcast at the exit media day last year, because I think he was told that he’d be shopped. I doubt he’d press for a buyout, and the Spurscertainly won’t need the cap savings. Maybe this is the year we start holding the line on buyouts.

Could well be true, but what matters is what other teams think and what that does to his trade value at the deadline. I’ve read/heard his name now on some of the typical gossip sites in the buy out bucket. Hope that’s wrong.

[Ariel]

I also hope the Spurs don't buy out Richardson. It could give them some leverage in trade scenarios too, if the Spurs say there won't be a buyout and other teams believe it.
Definitely, and also for the future. I understand that you'd want to help a long time star who gave everything to your franchise in his last quest for a championship (a la LaMarcus Aldridge), or even someone who you're not giving the opportunity to play (like Dragic), but Richardson is both playing and being paid handsomely by the Spurs, he didn't sign as a FA, and has no history to warrant accommodating his whims. Get a second rounder, a younger prospect, use him in a larger salary dump by some other team, whatever, but letting him go via buyout would be a negative message now and for the future in terms of the Spurs firmness negotiating. That's sure to backfire later on.

[scott]

Would be hard to see any incentive for the Spurs to buy out JRich. He’s useful for our team not only in terms of the minutes he is putting in but in terms of being a leader in the locker room. It’s doubtful he is pushing for a buyout behind the scenes. For all the same reasons he isn’t a buyout candidate, I think the Spurs may have a higher than market reservation price.

[exstatic]

It would be helpful if JRich and his agent would let it be known that they wouldn’t seek a buyout.

[KingKev]

Not my baseline but JRich very well could be retained this summer on a short term deal. He has played well and been completely professional. Additionally, we are flush with cap space and he is unlikely to garner an FRP at the deadline.

[Ariel]

Not my baseline but JRich very well could be retained this summer on a short term deal. He has played well and been completely professional. Additionally, we are flush with cap space and he is inlikely to garner an FRO at the deadline.
He could, the Spurs can certainly afford him. But his price tag makes him affordable to any team over the cap (via MLE) and he's likely to want to join one as opposed to spending his last good years on a lottery team. If he stays he'll likely command more money, require playing time and raise our floor, and not represent enough of an asset to offset our loss in lottery odds. So I'd rather take a 2nd rounder or whatever now, than waiting it out.
Poeltl might be worth waiting though, if we're low balled right now. He'll command more than the MLE and the only real risk I see is Toronto ridding themselves now of VanVleet & Gary Trent for expiring contracts, which would give them the room to go after him outright. But other than that he'll either resign, or land us some nice assets via S&T. But if we get something good (unprotected first, couple protected first, one first + useful player, etc.) right now, I would pull the trigger.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs can potentially sign-and-trade Richardson to a contender the same way they can with Poeltl. Keeping Richardson until the end of the season isn't as good as getting an asset now, but it isn't a disaster. Buying him out would be.

[KingKev]

The Spurs can potentially sign-and-trade Richardson to a contender the same way they can with Poeltl. Keeping Richardson until the end of the season isn't as good as getting an asset now, but it isn't a disaster. Buying him out would be.

Unlikely as he won’t fetch more than the MLE. Most teams who are interested will have the exception money to add him.

[exstatic]

Unlikely as he won’t fetch more than the MLE. Most teams who are interested will have the exception money to add him.

Teams at the tax don’t necessarily want to spend the MLE.

[Ariel]

Looking at the whole board, the problem is the lack of assets from the teams that would need what we're selling. A few thoughts:


There's not a huge market for Poeltl. He's better that most teams have at his position, but not enough to warrant overpaying for him. The 2 obvious places he could fit right now are Chicago and Toronto, but both franchises are in kind of a conundrum, on whether to take a step forward, or back. Other openings may appear, contingent on other trades (Phoenix -Ayton- & Indiana -Myles Turner-, but the latter could sign him outright in the offseason). Also, I don't see that many teams willing to extend huge offers to Poeltl... I doubt someone goes all the way up to 20M. So I'm thinking we might have to chose between a bad sell now (a contender using him as a backup, like Boston), or waiting it out and hoping or a re-sign or S&T.
Josh Richardson needs to go for the best offer available, whichever it may be. If we don't trade him now he's gone in the offseason, as some contender will throw part of the MLE his way without the need for a S&T, which would not net us anything more. Plus, he costs us lottery odds every minute he plays. He won't command a 1st, but a good second should do (or 2 if they're distant and uncertain). This year among teams with desirable 2nd rounders, the teams I came away with as most interesting options in terms of fit are the Lakers (currently possess 38 -own- & 39 -Chicago-), Philadelphia (33 via Charlotte), Boston (40 via Portland) and Suns (own at 41, likely getting worse). Miami is another possible fit, but they don't own a '23 2nd, maybe a couple future ones would do. The most sensible fit of the bunch would be that of the Lakers, and I think the Chicago 2nd sounds about right, but they're penny pinching and who knows which way they're going. But would make sense for both the Spurs and the Lakers. The other way with Richardson would be the way of the salary dump, which is the route where we could get the most assets, but that is largely dependent on the urgency of the counterpart, and that's waaay too fuzzy to speculate. But something along the likes of Richardson & filler for Fournier & couple meh firsts (Washington + Detroit, both protected and uncertain... may not convey for a while if at all, especially Washington) would do. But in any case, he raises our floor enough that the cost of keeping him outweighs his value, and at a fair market price someone is going to want him as he's a valuable piece to a contender, so I'd definitely expect him to be spending his last days as a Spur.
McDermott is not enough of an all around player and too much of a liability to be of much value, unless there ware a perfect fit (think Lakers, but they're standing pat). So he's likely moved next season as an expiring to a contender, that may land us something better.

So all in all, we may just see Richardson moving, unless some team gets desperate, which could be but is not likely. Just my 2c.

[scott]

Looking at the whole board, the problem is the lack of assets from the teams that would need what we're selling. A few thoughts:


There's not a huge market for Poeltl. He's better that most teams have at his position, but not enough to warrant overpaying for him. The 2 obvious places he could fit right now are Chicago and Toronto, but both franchises are in kind of a conundrum, on whether to take a step forward, or back. Other openings may appear, contingent on other trades (Phoenix -Ayton- & Indiana -Myles Turner-, but the latter could sign him outright in the offseason). Also, I don't see that many teams willing to extend huge offers to Poeltl... I doubt someone goes all the way up to 20M. So I'm thinking we might have to chose between a bad sell now (a contender using him as a backup, like Boston), or waiting it out and hoping or a re-sign or S&T.
Josh Richardson needs to go for the best offer available, whichever it may be. If we don't trade him now he's gone in the offseason, as some contender will throw part of the MLE his way without the need for a S&T, which would not net us anything more. Plus, he costs us lottery odds every minute he plays. He won't command a 1st, but a good second should do (or 2 if they're distant and uncertain). This year among teams with desirable 2nd rounders, the teams I came away with as most interesting options in terms of fit are the Lakers (currently possess 38 -own- & 39 -Chicago-), Philadelphia (33 via Charlotte), Boston (40 via Portland) and Suns (own at 41, likely getting worse). Miami is another possible fit, but they don't own a '23 2nd, maybe a couple future ones would do. The most sensible fit of the bunch would be that of the Lakers, and I think the Chicago 2nd sounds about right, but they're penny pinching and who knows which way they're going. But would make sense for both the Spurs and the Lakers. The other way with Richardson would be the way of the salary dump, which is the route where we could get the most assets, but that is largely dependent on the urgency of the counterpart, and that's waaay too fuzzy to speculate. But something along the likes of Richardson & filler for Fournier & couple meh firsts (Washington + Detroit, both protected and uncertain... may not convey for a while if at all, especially Washington) would do. But in any case, he raises our floor enough that the cost of keeping him outweighs his value, and at a fair market price someone is going to want him as he's a valuable piece to a contender, so I'd definitely expect him to be spending his last days as a Spur.
McDermott is not enough of an all around player and too much of a liability to be of much value, unless there ware a perfect fit (think Lakers, but they're standing pat). So he's likely moved next season as an expiring to a contender, that may land us something better.

So all in all, we may just see Richardson moving, unless some team gets desperate, which could be but is not likely. Just my 2c.

Nailed it. /thread.

[Atl Spur]

Hmmmm……

[offset formation]

It would be helpful if JRich and his agent would let it be known that they wouldn’t seek a buyout.

They could have already let PATFO know this. No reason that has to be publicly released

[exstatic]

They could have already let PATFO know this. No reason that has to be publicly released

It would be helpful if other teams knew he wouldn’t be a freebie.