Latest Intel on Spurs Trade Rumors and Signings

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/latest-spurs-intel-trade-rumors-possible-signings/

[buttsR4rebounding]

Interesting that the Spurs might be interested in a Moody plus draft capital for Poeltl trade. The fact that the Spurs have no interest in Wiseman now shows just how far he has fallen. If Thompson doesn't tear an ACL prior to the draft Wiseman's career might have taken an entirely different trajectory.

[Excessive Egotist]

In another thread, I speculated Spurs would not see Wiseman as more than salary filler and they could angle for Kuminga + Moody + lightly protected '26 for Poeltl. Sounds like that configuration may not work for them, if they're low on Kuminga too.

[DPG21920]

Thanks for this - promoted on Twitter for you.

SMH at wanting to keep Doug. Hes the most mediocre and highest paid of the guys that ARE NOT part of the future so why would he not be someone they want to move?

Things like that make me question where their heads are at. If someone is willing to give you positive draft capital for him instead of him being a negative asset? As long as you are not taking on salary (in terms of years, not dollars) why would you not move him? It’s not like hes been some amazing fit and consistent player with room to grow.

Also notable: no lakers intel. Looks like Lakers have completely pivoted to DeRozan or the Myles/Buddy stuff? You’d think Jakob, Doug and Richardson would have some appeal but if they can use those picks for DeRozan/Myles Turner instead of Jakob (since Spurs asking for 2 picks just for him) makes sense why LA would not be interested.

Very surprised at Kuminga. If you can get a first and Kuminga? Seems like a solid return even if Kuminga is a giant bust. Taking on buy lows seems to make sense, especially if you can get another pick with him. Definitely agree on Wiseman…no need to swap Jakob for him IMO. But surprised to see them so low on Kuminga if indeed true and not just a tactic.

Richardson injury sucks. He was playing well to start the year and this type of stuff may be why he doesnt get moved although I would imaging teams know his value.

[Excessive Egotist]

From my perspective, the bull case on Kuminga + Moody + top 4-ish protected '26 is that the even odds chance the Spurs can develop one or both of Kuminga and Moody into FRP value for a future trade, if they don't keep the players. In other words, against a three year time horizon, the Spurs have a non-zero chance of getting three FRP value from Poeltl and decent odds of getting 2 FRP value for Poeltl. Neither Kuminga nor Moody would jeopardize our tank, and they could fit nicely into a rebuild if things broke correctly.

I do not think the Warriors have the stomach to flip Wiseman for McDermott, but from a value standpoint Wiseman, Kuminga, Moody, and '26 FRP for Poeltl and McDermott seems about right to me. I'd favor Warriors to make the WCF after that move.

[Excessive Egotist]

On lack of Lakers intel, if Spurs are involved in a Lakers trade, it would as third team imo. I also wonder if they'd do something like 2 or 3 Lakers controlled SRPs for Richardson or McDermott. Depending on the year, those project as valuable SRPs. I'd gladly flip McDermott for Beverly and two SRPs. What was leaked to timvp is at least partial negotiating positioning from Spurs insider(s). If they leak an FRP for McDermott, they'd consider two SRPs.

[KingKev]

IT could be a great tank commander.

[MultiTroll]

SMH at wanting to keep Doug. Hes the most mediocre and highest paid of the guys that ARE NOT part of the future so why would he not be someone they want to move?

Things like that make me question where their heads are at. If someone is willing to give you positive draft capital for him instead of him being a negative asset? As long as you are not taking on salary (in terms of years, not dollars) why would you not move him? It’s not like hes been some amazing fit and consistent player with room to grow.
If true PATFO continue to be among the leagues worst since Timmy Dunkar and Prime Kwa left.

[Mugen]

If they bring Hall back, they might as well retire his jersey tbh :lol

[TD 21]

:tu Much better news than the last article.

The only surprise is the Warriors supposed interest in Poeltl, who'd almost certainly play a limited role and be a rental, but I guess they were hoping it was the one possibility of getting an impact player for Wiseman, who otherwise looks headed the way of Bagley III.

[itzsoweezee]

Kuminga looked great last year. I can’t believe the spurs would want to pass on a young player like him with his potential.

[exstatic]

Interesting that the Spurs might be interested in a Moody plus draft capital for Poeltl trade. The fact that the Spurs have no interest in Wiseman now shows just how far he has fallen. If Thompson doesn't tear an ACL prior to the draft Wiseman's career might have taken an entirely different trajectory.

LITERALLY, the day before.

[John B]

Great read.

I just saw IA getting floated around on social media, and voila Timvp reporting about it. I should’ve guessed. I rather they keep playing Malaki and Sochan at PG, get them as much burn creating offense. Soon Blake will be back. I don’t see IA just taking minutes from our youngsters. I rather push Langford, Roby, Bassey to score more.

I like Moody but I’m liking Poeltl more than him as better fit if we get Wemby. We need a C to let Wemby play 4/1 (Sochan plays 1/4).

The rest J-Rich, McBuckets whichever is best. I like JRich, but if he gets a FRP then they have to.

[lmbebo]

sounds like nothing changed. 2 lightly protected 1sts for Poetl. 1st for JRich. similar for McD.

No interest in Wiseman (not surprising). Some new info on Kuminga/moody.

Don't see Golden state sending out future 1st round picks for Poetl unless heavily protected.

[Leetonidas]

Kuminga looked great last year. I can’t believe the spurs would want to pass on a young player like him with his potential.

Character issue I assume. Rumors are that he has an attitude and he doesn't have the drive. Who knows but agree, Spurs should take a gamble on him regardless

[Leetonidas]

:tu Much better news than the last article.

The only surprise is the Warriors supposed interest in Poeltl, who'd almost certainly play a limited role and be a rental, but I guess they were hoping it was the one possibility of getting an impact player for Wiseman, who otherwise looks headed the way of Bagley III.

I think they realize this is probably the last real shot they have at a chip with their aging core. Poeltl would be a massive upgrade at C for them on both sides of the ball and would make them the favorites out west imo. He and Green would make for a very formidable defensive frontline

And shit, it's sounding like Bagley might be too generous of a comparison. Wiseman starting to look like he doesn't belong in the league at all. What a wasted pick

[JeffDuncan]

Of course the Spurs are more interested in Moody. He’s shorter.

And of course the Spurs are interested in Isaiah Thomas. He’s even shorter. He’s very very short.

The Spurs are something else.

[mo7888]

I love every word of that article. GS being interested in Jak is a no Brainerd in my opinion but, if he'll sign the extension then do it. He'll bring at least as much after the extension (probably more) and you have the luxury of seeing how the Wembanyama lottery pans out first.

Also, bring in Jared Butler... I get the Thomas thing but I'd like to kick the tires on butler..

[exstatic]

Of course the Spurs are more interested in Moody. He’s shorter.

And of course the Spurs are interested in Isaiah Thomas. He’s even shorter. He’s very very short.

The Spurs are something else.

Well, GS is apparently more interested in Moody, too.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks for the insight, it all makes perfect sense.

They clearly value Poeltl highly, as they should. With or without Wemba he's a good fit on the roster and wouldn't be easily replaceable. Anything between 4/58 now and 4/70-75 in the summer is good value and a valuable asset. There's not much sense in getting a single mid to late FRP for him as they clearly seem to think they could keep him in the summer and not see him simply walk for nothing. They've surely discussed the extension option and are well aware what he's looking for , both financially and as a basketball situation. Even the 2 picks scenario, say Toronto's 23 and 25 firsts, isn't that great. An 18th and a 22nd pick (or something similar, realistically) would be unlikely to produce a player as influential as he has become.

Wiseman is terrible right now and it's no surprise they're not interested. Kuminga is supposedly a bit of a headcase and lacks the work ethic to reach his ceiling. After all they've been through lately it's understandable they wouldn't be willing to compromise with character. Or it could be just a smokescreen. Moody I've loved since last season's draft, he was my guy for the Spurs pick, but it's not like he's been good so far.

JRich I'd love it if they could get a FRP for him but it would be difficult because a lot of the contenders have traded their picks away already and there aren't that many available FRPs. Certainly less than the pool of players available who'd generally be valued this much. You'd have to convince some team that they should spend their FRP on JRich over Hield or Gordon or Crowder and so on. The market will drive the price down.

McDermott also makes perfect sense - his contract is alright, it's not an albatross and he's the perfect player who could help young guys develop - doesn't need the ball, spreads the floor, good locker room presence. Keldon/Vassell/Sochan/Wesley/Branham can have the ball in their hands and take advantage of the created space to operate. Sure, he doesn't really affect winning overall, but we all understand this isn't the most important thing right now.

I wonder if there's any talk of absorbing bad contracts for value. Such deals would probably come right at the trade deadline but Spurs and Pacers could help some team reduce their tax bill or get rid of an unwanted contract for a pick - Fournier, Shamet, Graham, ... there are possibilities.

I'd also like to see them try to take a flyer on some guys on rookie contracts (that they might have liked during the draft evaluations), who have been in bad situations and might need a change of scenery - the likes of Okoro, Okeke, White, Thybulle, etc. Even if it costs them a future 2nd or two - they have 4 additional SRPs on top of their own.

[CGD]

Thank you

Sounds like Wiseman is just viewed as filler.

[slick'81]

Nobody is giving us two firsts for poodle. Wonder how fat spurs are willing to bend

[exstatic]

Thanks for the insight, it all makes perfect sense.

They clearly value Poeltl highly, as they should. With or without Wemba he's a good fit on the roster and wouldn't be easily replaceable. Anything between 4/58 now and 4/70-75 in the summer is good value and a valuable asset. There's not much sense in getting a single mid to late FRP for him as they clearly seem to think they could keep him in the summer and not see him simply walk for nothing. They've surely discussed the extension option and are well aware what he's looking for , both financially and as a basketball situation. Even the 2 picks scenario, say Toronto's 23 and 25 firsts, isn't that great. An 18th and a 22nd pick (or something similar, realistically) would be unlikely to produce a player as influential as he has become.

Wiseman is terrible right now and it's no surprise they're not interested. Kuminga is supposedly a bit of a headcase and lacks the work ethic to reach his ceiling. After all they've been through lately it's understandable they wouldn't be willing to compromise with character. Or it could be just a smokescreen. Moody I've loved since last season's draft, he was my guy for the Spurs pick, but it's not like he's been good so far.

JRich I'd love it if they could get a FRP for him but it would be difficult because a lot of the contenders have traded their picks away already and there aren't that many available FRPs. Certainly less than the pool of players available who'd generally be valued this much. You'd have to convince some team that they should spend their FRP on JRich over Hield or Gordon or Crowder and so on. The market will drive the price down.

McDermott also makes perfect sense - his contract is alright, it's not an albatross and he's the perfect player who could help young guys develop - doesn't need the ball, spreads the floor, good locker room presence. Keldon/Vassell/Sochan/Wesley/Branham can have the ball in their hands and take advantage of the created space to operate. Sure, he doesn't really affect winning overall, but we all understand this isn't the most important thing right now.

I wonder if there's any talk of absorbing bad contracts for value. Such deals would probably come right at the trade deadline but Spurs and Pacers could help some team reduce their tax bill or get rid of an unwanted contract for a pick - Fournier, Shamet, Graham, ... there are possibilities.

I'd also like to see them try to take a flyer on some guys on rookie contracts (that they might have liked during the draft evaluations), who have been in bad situations and might need a change of scenery - the likes of Okoro, Okeke, White, Thybulle, etc. Even if it costs them a future 2nd or two - they have 4 additional SRPs on top of their own.

The picks they want for Poeltl were described as “lightly protected”. To me that says something like Chicago’s, 1-11 and eventually 1-9. Anything in the 20s is a no go, even at multiple picks.

[exstatic]

Nobody is giving us two firsts for poodle. Wonder how fat spurs are willing to bend

They aren’t shopping him, but they are listening. The price is two lightly protected FRPs. It was clear in the article that they won’t dump him for whatever the offer is at the deadline if it’s short of their ask. They’ll explore an extension or a new contract this summer. He seems interested in staying.

[Mr. Body]

1. Ah the days of forum weeping over the fake LMA for Wiseman trade. Good times.

2. Kuminga apparently is an entitled asshole, even though he always crushes the Spurs. He's taken a huuuge step back this year, which isn't promising for his ability to learn the game.

3. He's still a better player than Moody, in my mind. Moody wasn't even a great shooter at Arkansas and he's not that good now. At anything. (Boy did GSW luck out that the whole league sucked last year.)

4. Poeltl would make the Warriors the best team in the West, or close. They're already looking much better and giving them a good defensive center shores up one of their biggest problems. Plus he's good at screening and rolling, is very good at picking out shooters.

5. I don't get why Boston isn't interested. They look good now, but still have the same problems as last year.

6. Whatever about Richardson. No one's giving a 1st for him.

7. The Isaiah Thomas thing is the most interesting item. Vassel and Keldon are clearly not number 1 options. All Keldon can do is shoot from deep or sometimes drive and that's it. Trying to shoulder the offense is killing him at this point, what made me worry at the beginning of the year. Possibly ruining him as a player. Vassel can at least get his own shot. Sort of. A player like IT can do what Dominique Wilkins did in 96-97, just put up shots and, in this case, not crush the little ones.

8. Slightly surprised by Toronto. They're utterly mediocre at this point and need something.

9. At this point, I continue to be more interested in keeping Poeltl than scraping up a guy like Moody or a bad pick. It's hard to get good centers.

[CGD]

^ Good takes.

I'm kinda in the keep Jakob camp, especially if that nugget about him wanting to stay is true.

Interestingly, on Lowe's podcast he and Bobby Marks mentioned that Indiana is in a similar place with Turner (extension falls short of what he could get in the open market); but that they were perhaps considering giving him a "raise" this year using their open cap space to then extend him at the higher figure amount. Assuming that's legal, I wonder if that's possible with Jakob too.

[scott]

If Jak will extend in-season, that would be a huge homerun that only increases his trade value. A top center on a cheap deal like that would not only lock up a key contributor but give us a very nice trade chip going into the future.

Not expecting the kind of trade movement we saw last season. Doug might be more valuable on an expiring next season than he is trying to trade him now.

[Kevin]

1. Ah the days of forum weeping over the fake LMA for Wiseman trade. Good times.

2. Kuminga apparently is an entitled asshole, even though he always crushes the Spurs. He's taken a huuuge step back this year, which isn't promising for his ability to learn the game.

3. He's still a better player than Moody, in my mind. Moody wasn't even a great shooter at Arkansas and he's not that good now. At anything. (Boy did GSW luck out that the whole league sucked last year.)

4. Poeltl would make the Warriors the best team in the West, or close. They're already looking much better and giving them a good defensive center shores up one of their biggest problems. Plus he's good at screening and rolling, is very good at picking out shooters.

5. I don't get why Boston isn't interested. They look good now, but still have the same problems as last year.

6. Whatever about Richardson. No one's giving a 1st for him.

7. The Isaiah Thomas thing is the most interesting item. Vassel and Keldon are clearly not number 1 options. All Keldon can do is shoot from deep or sometimes drive and that's it. Trying to shoulder the offense is killing him at this point, what made me worry at the beginning of the year. Possibly ruining him as a player. Vassel can at least get his own shot. Sort of. A player like IT can do what Dominique Wilkins did in 96-97, just put up shots and, in this case, not crush the little ones.

8. Slightly surprised by Toronto. They're utterly mediocre at this point and need something.

9. At this point, I continue to be more interested in keeping Poeltl than scraping up a guy like Moody or a bad pick. It's hard to get good centers.

I agree about keeping Jak unless someone gives up a unprotected pick or swap. Otherwise they should just keep him. Warriors are the one team that might surrender a unprotected swap since Jak might be the difference for another ring.

[slick'81]

Still waiting for that first for jrich:lol

[LeBowen]

Only 58/4 deal for Jakob? That's a bargain, sign it right away, tbh.
Even at 70 million it would be a great deal.

[TD 21]

I think they realize this is probably the last real shot they have at a chip with their aging core. Poeltl would be a massive upgrade at C for them on both sides of the ball and would make them the favorites out west imo. He and Green would make for a very formidable defensive frontline

And shit, it's sounding like Bagley might be too generous of a comparison. Wiseman starting to look like he doesn't belong in the league at all. What a wasted pick

Maybe, but between Green and Looney, that's a virtual and complete non shooting big who will sop up the majority of the minutes at the five in the playoffs. By far the bigger need is a stretch four to replace Porter Jr.

I just meant in terms of being a big who was the second overall pick in their respective draft and being traded for very little.

[Spurs Homer]

No brainer: keep purtle and NEVER waver from the two UNprotected 1sts

spurs have the stong hand- they need to act like they do

worst case scenario- keep purtle and re-sign him for a pretty fair price- otherwise in 2-3 seasons spurs will be looking for a decent affordable big man and they will end up with another pau gasol disaster

[CGD]

Still waiting for that first for jrich:lol

Yeah, aint gonna happen unless its part of the bigger salary dump.

[Dverde]

Still waiting for that first for jrich:lol

First rounder may be for J Rich and the Spurs taking back their hurt player or bad contract. Spurs got a protected first for Thad Young

[TD 21]

No brainer: keep purtle and NEVER waver from the two UNprotected 1sts

spurs have the stong hand- they need to act like they do

worst case scenario- keep purtle and re-sign him for a pretty fair price- otherwise in 2-3 seasons spurs will be looking for a decent affordable big man and they will end up with another pau gasol disaster

Finding solid centers is easy and will be made even more so by the likelihood of the Spurs picking high for at least the duration of that timeframe.

I always liked Poeltl and recognized his value from before he was traded here, but he's now went from underappreciated to overrated on this board.

Centers with greater value . . .

MVP caliber: Jokic, Embiid, Davis
All-NBA caliber: Towns, Gobert, Adebayo
All-Star caliber: Sabonis, Porzingis, Ayton
Solid starters: Allen, Mobley, Turner, Jackson Jr., Holmgren (status technically unknown, granted)
Solid starters of probably equal value: Capela, Carter Jr.

That places him tied for 15th at the most oversaturated position in the league.

[Dex]

OP is now getting the [Ellis] tag and has the top post on reddit /r/nba....

And that's saying something because reddit usually doesn't give a shit about the Spurs.

:bobo

[baseline bum]

LOL Golden State acting like Wiseman has any trade value

[LeBowen]

Finding solid centers is easy and will be made even more so by the likelihood of the Spurs picking high for at least the duration of that timeframe.

I always liked Poeltl and recognized his value from before he was traded here, but he's now went from underappreciated to overrated on this board.

Centers with greater value . . .

MVP caliber: Jokic, Embiid, Davis
All-NBA caliber: Towns, Gobert, Adebayo
All-Star caliber: Sabonis, Porzingis, Ayton
Solid starters: Allen, Mobley, Turner, Jackson Jr., Holmgren (status technically unknown, granted)
Solid starters of probably equal value: Capela, Carter Jr.

That places him tied for 15th at the most oversaturated position in the league.

Couldn't disagree more.

MVP caliber: obvious

All-NBA caliber:
Towns? Disgustingly bad defender.
Gobert? Disgustingly bad on offense, exposed on perimeter.
Adebayo? 35 million a year for 20/10/3 with no range? Still the best deal out of those three, which says a lot.

All-star caliber:
Sabonis? Awful defender.
Porzingis? Walking fracture.
Ayton? 35 million a year for 17/10 with no range. Solid defender.

Solid starters:
Allen? Probably my favorite non-MVP center. Great defense and rebounding, finishes everything around the rim, great FT shooter. No range. 20 million a year.
Mobley? Will surely get a max or close to it after rookie deal.
JJJ? Great range and rim protection, subpar rebounder, lacks strength. 27 a year.


There are plenty of centers, but there are very few all-defense level centers who aren't on ridiculous deals.
In today's league, you've got two options when it comes to center position. You either give the supermax to MVP level player or you get a bargain with solid starter, all-defense guy.
Everything inbetween is not worth it.

The likes of KAT, Gobert and Ayton are definitely not worth their deals. Great players, better than Jakob, but the league has moved past max contract Cs who can't carry the entire team.
Adebayo is somewhere inbetween, but still an overpay if you ask me. He got that deal because Heat expected him to improve, but he's been the same for three seasons now.

Except for MVP level guys, the only center I'd rather have than Jakob and rookie contract guys, taking their current deals into consideration is Jarrett Allen. Pretty much Jakob with FTs.

We're quite a few years away from being a serious playoff team, but if I was building a contending roster now and I can't get an elite big, I'm taking Allen, Jakob or even Robert Williams.
I'm not paying my center more than 15 to 20 million a year. No chance.

And for 15-20 million a year range, we can't get anyone better than Jakob. His FT shooting being the only issue.
Cap will spike and those 20 million won't be much.

Anyone who's even close to all-star level demands a max and they're definitely not worth it in today's league.
Maybe Porzingis would be if he wasn't so injury prone.

[TD 21]

Couldn't disagree more.

MVP caliber: obvious

All-NBA caliber:
Towns? Disgustingly bad defender.
Gobert? Disgustingly bad on offense, exposed on perimeter.
Adebayo? 35 million a year for 20/10/3 with no range? Still the best deal out of those three, which says a lot.

All-star caliber:
Sabonis? Awful defender.
Porzingis? Walking fracture.
Ayton? 35 million a year for 17/10 with no range. Solid defender.

Solid starters:
Allen? Probably my favorite non-MVP center. Great defense and rebounding, finishes everything around the rim, great FT shooter. No range. 20 million a year.
Mobley? Will surely get a max or close to it after rookie deal.
JJJ? Great range and rim protection, subpar rebounder, lacks strength. 27 a year.


There are plenty of centers, but there are very few all-defense level centers who aren't on ridiculous deals.
In today's league, you've got two options when it comes to center position. You either give the supermax to MVP level player or you get a bargain with solid starter, all-defense guy.
Everything inbetween is not worth it.

The likes of KAT, Gobert and Ayton are definitely not worth their deals. Great players, better than Jakob, but the league has moved past max contract Cs who can't carry the entire team.
Adebayo is somewhere inbetween, but still an overpay if you ask me. He got that deal because Heat expected him to improve, but he's been the same for three seasons now.

Except for MVP level guys, the only center I'd rather have than Jakob and rookie contract guys, taking their current deals into consideration is Jarrett Allen. Pretty much Jakob with FTs.

We're quite a few years away from being a serious playoff team, but if I was building a contending roster now and I can't get an elite big, I'm taking Allen, Jakob or even Robert Williams.
I'm not paying my center more than 15 to 20 million a year. No chance.

And for 15-20 million a year range, we can't get anyone better than Jakob. His FT shooting being the only issue.
Cap will spike and those 20 million won't be much.

Anyone who's even close to all-star level demands a max and they're definitely not worth it in today's league.
Maybe Porzingis would be if he wasn't so injury prone.

They're still better or at least have more desirable skillsets (the reason Porzingis, Turner and Jackson Jr. superseded durability concerns but not R. Williams). You don't get to choose your stars and everything doesn't boil down to what'd be ideal or likely on a championship contender.

If he had the value commensurate with what homers think or his his catch all metrics indicate, he'd have been traded by now.

He isn't because his limitations become exacerbated in the playoffs and he's about to become significantly more expensive.

[LeBowen]

They're still better or at least have more desirable skillsets (the reason Porzingis, Turner and Jackson Jr. superseded durability concerns but not R. Williams). You don't get to choose your stars and everything doesn't boil down to what'd be ideal or likely on a championship contender.

Aside from MVP level players, the only desirable skills for bigs on contending teams are rim protection, switchability, rebounding and stretching the floor.
Three out of four, and you're on a team.
Brook Lopez can't switch, but Bucks have more than enough good defenders to cover for that weakness. And guess what, he's making only 14 million a year.
All-star level bigs aren't a thing on championship teams anymore.

You don't get to choose your stars, but you get to choose who you want to keep on the roster.
Poeltl fits every single archetype of player we want to draft, because they all have one thing in common: range.
We either need a star point guard or a new nephew type of player. If we assume Devin and Keldon are two other starters, Jakob fits in perfectly.



If he had the value commensurate with what homers think or his his catch all metrics indicate, he'd have been traded by now.


He has value to us. Finding such good rim protector on a friendly deal (yes, 16-18 million reported in the article would be friendly) would be next to impossible for a small market team that's at the bottom of the league right now.
There a difference between a player you want to trade and a player you would trade for a slight overpay.


He isn't because his limitations become exacerbated in the playoffs and he's about to become significantly more expensive.

If he had no limitations, he would be way more expensive and he'd cost way more. His projected deal is more than fair considering the upcoming cap spike.


We can agree to disagree.
My point would be that elite rim protectors who aren't a huge liability on the perimeter are hard to come by and usually demand a big overpay, which is never worth it.
Jakob fits all our needs and his projected deal would be more than fair, I see no reason why wouldn't we extend him.

[BacktoBasics]

Kuminga has shown some things. I’m not sure how much truth there is to the work ethic thing. He’s getting more playing time than Wiseman and Moody and possibly more playing time than both of those two combined. It can’t be that bad if he’s the one out of the three that’s managed to crack the rotation the most frequently.

It’s not out of the question that they might be fabricating the whole work ethic thing because he’s the one they want to part with the least out of those 3 young guys.

Patrick Baldwin Jr is an interesting prospect as well. It would be worth trying to work him into a deal if possible.

One thing is for sure. There is no scenario where they trade all 3 for Poeltl. If I’m GS Kuminga and and top 10 protected 1st is about their limit. Moody and 2 heavily protected 1st with 1 eventually conveying to a second sounds not far off.

I just don’t know about Wiseman. He didn’t explode in the g league but he didn’t suck either. He needs more time to develop but there are health issues etc that would have to pan out.

[SPURt]

In a perfect world, they sign Jakob in season and draft the W. Signing IT because Vassell and KJ aren’t capable of carrying the scoring would be pretty demoralizing for the young guns right? IT was a legit bucket in the league but bringing in a 5’7 33 yr old is not a great look for the youngins, regardless of how entertaining it could be. IT would love any team that signs him, but he’d probably really love being a Spur.

[slick'81]

Just resign poodle. Spurs wont get the deal they want so might as well keep him. Definitely not dealing him for moody and a late first:lol

[TD 21]

He’s getting more playing time than Wiseman and Moody and possibly more playing time than both of those two combined. It can’t be that bad if he’s the one out of the three that’s managed to crack the rotation the most frequently.

Mostly a product of roster construction and them playing better since the rotational changes.


Aside from MVP level players, the only desirable skills for bigs on contending teams are rim protection, switchability, rebounding and stretching the floor.
Three out of four, and you're on a team.
Brook Lopez can't switch, but Bucks have more than enough good defenders to cover for that weakness. And guess what, he's making only 14 million a year.
All-star level bigs aren't a thing on championship teams anymore.

You don't get to choose your stars, but you get to choose who you want to keep on the roster.
Poeltl fits every single archetype of player we want to draft, because they all have one thing in common: range.
We either need a star point guard or a new nephew type of player. If we assume Devin and Keldon are two other starters, Jakob fits in perfectly.



He has value to us. Finding such good rim protector on a friendly deal (yes, 16-18 million reported in the article would be friendly) would be next to impossible for a small market team that's at the bottom of the league right now.
There a difference between a player you want to trade and a player you would trade for a slight overpay.



If he had no limitations, he would be way more expensive and he'd cost way more. His projected deal is more than fair considering the upcoming cap spike.


We can agree to disagree.
My point would be that elite rim protectors who aren't a huge liability on the perimeter are hard to come by and usually demand a big overpay, which is never worth it.
Jakob fits all our needs and his projected deal would be more than fair, I see no reason why wouldn't we extend him.

The whole league can't contend simultaneously though. Yes, someone like Towns would be a tricky fit on a contender, but that doesn't mean he's not clearly better and more valuable overall than someone like Poeltl.

Right because if something hasn't happened recently, that means it can't period. Depends on the skillset. If it's Sabonis, no. If it's Porzingis or Ayton, possibly.

Beyond Vassel being a relatively key piece (malleability) long term, I wouldn't assume anything at this point.

Different argument. The whole point of this is to say, anyone thinking he's worth a king's ransom in a trade is fooling themselves.

Not really. We just saw Duren, who projects as that, slip to the late lottery and with where they're likely to be picking for a while, they shouldn't have much difficulty replacing him long term.

No, he doesn't. He's 27 and limited on a team more bereft of dynamic talent than any other in the league.

[LeBowen]

The whole league can't contend simultaneously though. Yes, someone like Towns would be a tricky fit on a contender, but that doesn't mean he's not clearly better and more valuable overall than someone like Poeltl.

Towns is clearly better, but isn't more valuable for a contender. He's turning 28 this season and has proven to be even worse than Cousins when it comes to winning basketball games and having the right mentality.
He'll be making fucking 50 million in a year. Sorry, but if we take contracts into consideration, Jakob for a third of the cost is more valuable.


Right because if something hasn't happened recently, that means it can't period. Depends on the skillset. If it's Sabonis, no. If it's Porzingis or Ayton, possibly.

It can if it's a team with all-star big being the third option, like it almost happened for Suns.
Very few teams will ever get three all-stars. It can happen, but it's very unlikely.


Beyond Vassel being a relatively key piece (malleability) long term, I wouldn't assume anything at this point.

I guess you're right, but wings having range is a must in today's league.


Different argument. The whole point of this is to say, anyone thinking he's worth a king's ransom in a trade is fooling themselves.

Why would two picks be a king's ransom? Jakob was 9th pick, he's 27 and will be on a friendly contract even after the extension.
If he's traded to a legit playoff team, those two picks would be in mid to late 20s.
Of course that teams on their last legs like the Lakers don't want to give up two first rounders, but for example Toronto is a young team and those picks wouldn't be even close to the lottery.
If you want a player that's not getting traded at all costs, you overpay a bit.


Not really. The likes of R. Williams and Allen have recently signed team friendly contracts and we just saw Duren, who projects as that, slip to the late lottery.

Great, there are three (four if you count Jakob) in the entire league right now. They're really easy to come by.


No, he doesn't. He's 27 and limited on a team more bereft of dynamic talent than any other in the league.

With that logic, noone is a good fit on the Spurs.
You have to start somewhere. Jakob is a perfect complementary player for every young superstar we hope to get.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Finding solid centers is easy and will be made even more so by the likelihood of the Spurs picking high for at least the duration of that timeframe.

I always liked Poeltl and recognized his value from before he was traded here, but he's now went from underappreciated to overrated on this board.

Centers with greater value . . .

MVP caliber: Jokic, Embiid, Davis
All-NBA caliber: Towns, Gobert, Adebayo
All-Star caliber: Sabonis, Porzingis, Ayton
Solid starters: Allen, Mobley, Turner, Jackson Jr., Holmgren (status technically unknown, granted)
Solid starters of probably equal value: Capela, Carter Jr.

That places him tied for 15th at the most oversaturated position in the league.

Hoopshype just did a piece that ranked the centers and put Poeltl 9th. Ahead of Holmgren and interestingly ahead of Turner.

[TD 21]

Towns is clearly better, but isn't more valuable for a contender. He's turning 28 this season and has proven to be even worse than Cousins when it comes to winning basketball games and having the right mentality.
He'll be making fucking 50 million in a year. Sorry, but if we take contracts into consideration, Jakob for a third of the cost is more valuable.

Again with the contender stuff. Towns is easily more valuable. When he eventually gets traded, it'll be for a hell of a lot more than what Poeltl goes for.


It can if it's a team with all-star big being the third option, like it almost happened for Suns.
Very few teams will ever get three all-stars. It can happen, but it's very unlikely.

Even if that arbitrary limitation of third option were true, being that plus the defensive anchor of a contender is very valuable.



Why would two picks be a king's ransom? Jakob was 9th pick, he's 27 and will be on a friendly contract even after the extension.
If he's traded to a legit playoff team, those two picks would be in mid to late 20s.
Of course that teams on their last legs like the Lakers don't want to give up two first rounders, but for example Toronto is a young team and those picks wouldn't be even close to the lottery.
If you want a player that's not getting traded at all costs, you overpay a bit.

I'm not specifically talking about that, but since you brought it up, you left out the operative words "lightly protected". No one is paying that cost for a center with these limitations.



With that logic, noone is a good fit on the Spurs.
You have to start somewhere. Jakob is a perfect complementary player for every young superstar we hope to get.

Past the '23 draft, they're virtual unknowns right now and even in that draft, a lot will change between now and then and within' their first few years of being drafted.

All we know is that they have an excellent chance to pick high for at least a few years, where they'll likely have the chance to select an equal or better center.



Hoopshype just did a piece that ranked the centers and put Poeltl 9th. Ahead of Holmgren and interestingly ahead of Turner.

You could argue Poeltl is better than them right now, but it's close enough that their skillsets and the potential of Holmgren make them more valuable.

[poopbox]

On the one hand it kind of makes sense not to trade Poeltl for Wiseman straight up if your ultimate goal is to get tall Tony Parker cause then there is nowhere to play Wiseman other than the backup center and I don't see a number 2 overrall pick wanting to stick around to be a backup center.

But the Poeltl and Tall Tony Parker playing together line makes no fucking sense whatsoever :lol. Then where does Sochan play? If Poeltl is the 5 and Tall Tony is the 4 is Sochan coming off the bench? Did we draft a dude number 9 overrall to come off the bench :lol

I thought this team had turned a corner in at least understanding how to construct a roster but I guess not.

Keeping Doug around is pretty fucking stupid as well :lol

[tonight...you]

On the one hand it kind of makes sense not to trade Poeltl for Wiseman straight up if your ultimate goal is to get tall Tony Parker cause then there is nowhere to play Wiseman other than the backup center and I don't see a number 2 overrall pick wanting to stick around to be a backup center.

But the Poeltl and Tall Tony Parker playing together line makes no fucking sense whatsoever :lol. Then where does Sochan play? If Poeltl is the 5 and Tall Tony is the 4 is Sochan coming off the bench? Did we draft a dude number 9 overrall to come off the bench :lol

I thought this team had turned a corner in at least understanding how to construct a roster but I guess not.

Keeping Doug around is pretty fucking stupid as well :lol
They're probably keeping Doug till next year when he's an expiring.
Sometimes teams have to think ahead.

[tbdog]

:tu Much better news than the last article.

The only surprise is the Warriors supposed interest in Poeltl, who'd almost certainly play a limited role and be a rental, but I guess they were hoping it was the one possibility of getting an impact player for Wiseman, who otherwise looks headed the way of Bagley III.

Poeltl in the warriors is perfect. He does not need to play in the clutch as warriors usually go with draymond at the end. But those first 3/4, you have a nifty passing big man and a great screener. Then the interior defense with the acceptable switching ability. Finally, the offensive rebounding is deadly for all bombers on the floor. The warriors don't need a finishing 5 players in clutch. They have that. They need to cover those first 3/4. kaminga, moodey, Wiseman are not in their playoff rotation. They will be buyers this deadline.

[jjspur]

Kuminga, Patrick Baldwin, and 2025 top 10 protected 1st for Poeltl. Two firsts and Baldwin seems like an even trade. GS will win the west with or without Poeltl on board but it will be a lot easier with him.

[Ariel]

I was hellbent on trading Poeltl for draft capital & young assets, mainly because I feared him on the team could hurt our lottery chances next year. Now that those clouds have dissipated, if he can be extended for the proposed contract (4 years 58 million) I say go for it: it's already good value and would be so even more with the projected cap rise, he's probably the only better than average starter we have, and he's entering his prime. So unless we're talking about something substantial (like a couple late lottery picks, or a couple very lightly protected firsts a few years from now, from a team already going downhill), we might be better off extending him.

[exstatic]

Kuminga, Patrick Baldwin, and 2025 top 10 protected 1st for Poeltl. Two firsts and Baldwin seems like an even trade. GS will win the west with or without Poeltl on board but it will be a lot easier with him.

The first FRP they can freely trade is 2028. Their pick for 2024 is protected 1-4, then in 2025 1, then unprotected in 2026. They can’t trade any of those years, nor 2027.

[Seventyniner]

The first FRP they can freely trade is 2028. Their pick for 2024 is protected 1-4, then in 2025 1, then unprotected in 2026. They can’t trade any of those years, nor 2027.

Can the Warriors completely remove the protection from the 2024 pick as part of a deal with the Spurs, allowing them to trade their 2026 (whether protected or not) first? Even though Memphis, the recipient of the protected pick, isn't part of the trade?

The chances that 1-4 protection on the 2024 pick would actually matter are pretty low anyway: the Warriors would have to both miss the playoffs and then jump into the top 4. Perhaps that could be an acceptable sacrifice for them to get a deal with the Spurs done.

[Uriel]

A few years ago, the Spurs were so enamored with Wiseman that they compared him to David Robinson and were willing to trade LaMarcus Aldridge for him.

Now they wouldn’t even take him for Jakob Poeltl.

[FutureMan]

Spurs shouldn’t be helping Golden State to another championship. So they should be out.

A Toronto trade makes the most sense to me. Birch and two unprotected 1sts for Poeltl is what I’ve been thinking since the preseason. Two unprotected firsts would be fine from them since their pick this year will likely not be a lottery pick anyway. That would just leave the Spurs crossing their fingers on the 2025 first.

The real problem is that the Spurs just don’t need to trade Poeltl or anyone for that matter.

[Mr. Body]

A few years ago, the Spurs were so enamored with Wiseman that they compared him to David Robinson and were willing to trade LaMarcus Aldridge for him.


This has never been substantiated at all.

[scott]

Spurs shouldn’t be helping Golden State to another championship. So they should be out.

A Toronto trade makes the most sense to me. Birch and two unprotected 1sts for Poeltl is what I’ve been thinking since the preseason. Two unprotected firsts would be fine from them since their pick this year will likely not be a lottery pick anyway. That would just leave the Spurs crossing their fingers on the 2025 first.

The real problem is that the Spurs just don’t need to trade Poeltl or anyone for that matter.

Can the Raptors even trade us their 1st this year since they traded us their first last year? Doesn't TOR need to keep this year's pick?

[Dejounte]

A few years ago, the Spurs were so enamored with Wiseman that they compared him to David Robinson and were willing to trade LaMarcus Aldridge for him.

Now they wouldn’t even take him for Jakob Poeltl.
Thomas82 would go goo goo for gaga for this dude in every post that year

[venitian navigator]

I agree Spurs are in no hurry to trade...that's the most important benefit of selecting all good guys, veterans and young prospects. Pop and Brown had nothing but good things to say about them and all the team.
Frankly, I think both veterans (that are playing, for avoiding injuries, the minimum amount of minutes but have already been part of the "good beginning of the season" probably so consolidating their market value) and young guys have understood and shared the PATFO line...this is a season for learning, undertanding the system, create good relationships on the group...
The atmospehere is ideal for just listening to market offers.
But I wouldn't be suprised if nothing comes. My impression is that patfo really likes what they already have and are just waiting for the season to finish and for ping pong balls to determine our draft number.
The side effect of the "good behavior" about the these guys, imho, is that I think patfo would not be against re-signing or pick the options for quite all of them (Poeltl, J.Rich, KBD for the veterans; Tre Jones, Roby, Bassey, Collins etc.).
After all, the only real old (but not that much, actually) guy is Dieng...and he too could be seen, considering his mentoring qualities, as a future member of the organization.

[exstatic]

Can the Warriors completely remove the protection from the 2024 pick as part of a deal with the Spurs, allowing them to trade their 2026 (whether protected or not) first? Even though Memphis, the recipient of the protected pick, isn't part of the trade?

The chances that 1-4 protection on the 2024 pick would actually matter are pretty low anyway: the Warriors would have to both miss the playoffs and then jump into the top 4. Perhaps that could be an acceptable sacrifice for them to get a deal with the Spurs done.
The odds don’t matter, but just to ask, did you really think they’d earn their own lottery pick recently, sandwiched between a couple of championships? Low doesn’t mean zero.

I think they could remove the protections, but they won’t.

[exstatic]

This has never been substantiated at all.

It hasn’t been debunked, either, and begs the question: why was LMA the only Spurs player to not only NOT play in the Orlando bubble, but to not even travel and stay with the team? They even brought Forbes, and left him in street clothes until White injuried his foot. Forbes was gone in the offseason.

[Uriel]

Can Wiseman still be salvaged though? He’s only 21. He just got summoned back from the G-League after averaging 15 and 10 there.

[exstatic]

Can the Raptors even trade us their 1st this year since they traded us their first last year? Doesn't TOR need to keep this year's pick?

Someone cleared this up for me. That rule applies only to future picks. Each draft resets you to zero if you had traded that pick. Toronto could trade us 2023 and 2025, for example, even though an earlier trade netted us their 2022 pick.

[exstatic]

Can Wiseman still be salvaged though? He’s only 21. He just got summoned back from the G-League after averaging 15 and 10 there.

15 and 10 in the gleague is kind of pathetic for a #2 overall pick. I mean, Marvin Bagley was sent packing for averaging 14 and 7.
In the NBA.
For 3 seasons.

It becomes a matter of economics. Those high picks start creeping up towards an eight figure salary around year 3 or 4. You have to decide if there’s any further growth curve, or if you can get that productivity cheaper elsewhere. This is probably why the Spurs aren’t interested in Wiseman. He’s in year 3 of his contract, and can be unrestricted after year 5, so, you develop him for someone else?

[KobesAchilles]

Can Wiseman still be salvaged though? He’s only 21. He just got summoned back from the G-League after averaging 15 and 10 there.
His youth is a plus. And so is his size and potential skill set. However, you can't teach heart and work ethic and by all accounts he has none.

[R. DeMurre]

It's impressive to see how well the Celts have played without Robert Williams, using a 36 year old Al Horford and Luke Kornet to hold down the center position. Kornet has the fourth best BPM on the team, the best DBPM and WS/48... pretty great production from a 9th man who's getting paid the vet's minimum on the team with the best record in the league.

The 73 win '16 Warriors used Andrew Bogut at about 21 mpg-- so even though he usually started, he was essentially a 6th man, with Festus Ezeli backing him up at about 17 mpg.

The 72 win Bulls started Luc Longley, and backed him up with journeyman Bill Wennington.

The blueprint has always been there for teams without dominant centers to win, even before the three point era, which has made them less relevant than ever. If I'm a GM in this era, my #1 priority is getting super versatile forwards/big wings who score and defend, and shooters. The Pelicans just took over the #1 spot in the West, and some of their most productive line ups have 6'8" Larry Nance Jr at center, who makes an extremely reasonable salary of $9.6 mil this year.

[Mr. Body]

It hasn’t been debunked, either, and begs the question: why was LMA the only Spurs player to not only NOT play in the Orlando bubble, but to not even travel and stay with the team? They even brought Forbes, and left him in street clothes until White injuried his foot. Forbes was gone in the offseason.

I'm not clear at all why him not being in the bubble had anything to do with a Wiseman trade. I have no idea what kind of logic this is.

[Kevin]

Averaging 15/10 in the G-League is pretty bad for being in his third year. Bassey was destroying the G-League and he's struggling again after a hot start.

Wiseman probably has negative value at this point. By the time the trade deadline rolls around he'll have about 16 million guaranteed left on his contract. He's not only unproductive but pretty spendy. Why spend that kind of money for a guy who's shown nothing? Just draft a Christian Koloko type in the 25-40 range and save the money.

[TD 21]

Poeltl in the warriors is perfect. He does not need to play in the clutch as warriors usually go with draymond at the end. But those first 3/4, you have a nifty passing big man and a great screener. Then the interior defense with the acceptable switching ability. Finally, the offensive rebounding is deadly for all bombers on the floor. The warriors don't need a finishing 5 players in clutch. They have that. They need to cover those first 3/4. kaminga, moodey, Wiseman are not in their playoff rotation. They will be buyers this deadline.

Yeah, but they love Looney and he primarily fills the role you mentioned.

Sure, they could use an upgrade on J. Green and Wiseman, but you don't give up the asset(s) required and bring in a solid starter for that.

The whole thing is weird.



The blueprint has always been there for teams without dominant centers to win, even before the three point era, which has made them less relevant than ever.

That's like saying dynamic perimeter creators aren't that important to winning championships because '94 Olajuwon, '99 and '03 Duncan and to a lesser extent '11 Nowitzki won without it.

[exstatic]

I'm not clear at all why him not being in the bubble had anything to do with a Wiseman trade. I have no idea what kind of logic this is.

August Bubble-> playoffs ->November draft with Wiseman. If LMA got hurt, no trade, so why risk it? Turns out, someone else got hurt, spiking it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

August Bubble-> playoffs ->November draft with Wiseman. If LMA got hurt, no trade, so why risk it? Turns out, someone else got hurt, spiking it.

How does that work? At the time of the bubble GS didn't even know their draft position, there was no way to know they could even have the opportunity to draft Wiseman.

LMA missed the bubble because he was injured and because he has a known heart issue, so covid was a big concern.

[Mr. Body]

August Bubble-> playoffs ->November draft with Wiseman. If LMA got hurt, no trade, so why risk it? Turns out, someone else got hurt, spiking it.

This isn't even worth responding to, it's so ridiculous... but you know this was during a pandemic, right?

[scott]

It's impressive to see how well the Celts have played without Robert Williams, using a 36 year old Al Horford and Luke Kornet to hold down the center position. Kornet has the fourth best BPM on the team, the best DBPM and WS/48... pretty great production from a 9th man who's getting paid the vet's minimum on the team with the best record in the league.

The 73 win '16 Warriors used Andrew Bogut at about 21 mpg-- so even though he usually started, he was essentially a 6th man, with Festus Ezeli backing him up at about 17 mpg.

The 72 win Bulls started Luc Longley, and backed him up with journeyman Bill Wennington.

The blueprint has always been there for teams without dominant centers to win, even before the three point era, which has made them less relevant than ever. If I'm a GM in this era, my #1 priority is getting super versatile forwards/big wings who score and defend, and shooters. The Pelicans just took over the #1 spot in the West, and some of their most productive line ups have 6'8" Larry Nance Jr at center, who makes an extremely reasonable salary of $9.6 mil this year.

Great observations... but what stands out to me is that you can get by with journeyman center if you have Steph Curry or Michael Jordan on your team...

I'd even extend your observation to include:


The 2005 Spurs had Rasho at 25.5 mpg and Nazr Mohammed at 18.0 mpg (and I believe Nazr was starting for us in the finals IIRC)
The 2007 Spurs had Francisco Elson (who I don't even slightly remember) at 19.0 mpg and Fabs at 17.3 mpg
The 2014 Spurs had Tiago at 21.5 mpg, Jeff Ayres at 13.0 mpg and Baynes at 9.3 mpg


The 2014 Spurs are the only one among those teams that stand out as not having a prime superstar, but we all already know how special that team was in terms of the beautiful game.

[Thomas82]

Thomas82 would go goo goo for gaga for this dude in every post that year

There you go again coming for me when I didn't send for you. You love starting stuff with folks.

[CGD]

Can Wiseman still be salvaged though? He’s only 21. He just got summoned back from the G-League after averaging 15 and 10 there.

I think there are two things going on:
1. Wiseman has been awful and his value is dimmed;
2. Wiseman's raw talent is still hard to categorically ignore.

Spurs driving a hard bargain on picks (they should), but at some level secretly interested in seeing if they can rehab him.

[exstatic]

How does that work? At the time of the bubble GS didn't even know their draft position, there was no way to know they could even have the opportunity to draft Wiseman.

LMA missed the bubble because he was injured and because he has a known heart issue, so covid was a big concern.

It wasn’t their pick, it was Minny’s from the trade for Wiggins. Heart condition? Why did he start playing in December under non bubble conditions, and no vaccine available for months? I think NBA players started getting it in March 2021, on the down low. LMA was gone by March. If he was really injured, he surely would have recovered between February 2020 and August 2020 for something that didn’t require surgery.

[R. DeMurre]

Great observations... but what stands out to me is that you can get by with journeyman center if you have Steph Curry or Michael Jordan on your team...

I'd even extend your observation to include:


The 2005 Spurs had Rasho at 25.5 mpg and Nazr Mohammed at 18.0 mpg (and I believe Nazr was starting for us in the finals IIRC)
The 2007 Spurs had Francisco Elson (who I don't even slightly remember) at 19.0 mpg and Fabs at 17.3 mpg
The 2014 Spurs had Tiago at 21.5 mpg, Jeff Ayres at 13.0 mpg and Baynes at 9.3 mpg


The 2014 Spurs are the only one among those teams that stand out as not having a prime superstar, but we all already know how special that team was in terms of the beautiful game.


Another way to think of it could be this: the last eight NBA champions plus the two Miami teams that won it with LeBron were not Center oriented. The Lakers had AD in 2020, who could slide over to C, so maybe they don't quite count, but the Bucks, Raptors, Cavs, and Warrior teams were all constructed with primary strengths other than a powerhouse traditional center. Before that, Dirk won with a good defensive center in Tyson Chandler, the Kobe-led Lakers won two with PF Pau, where Bynum was a lesser piece, and Boston won with PF KG as the important big while Perkins held down the C position. It's been quite a while since a team whose best player was their center won a championship. Even in 2014, Duncan was the spiritual leader but Kawhi had the best advanced stats by far and was the key to slowing down Lebron.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It wasn’t their pick, it was Minny’s from the trade for Wiggins. Heart condition? Why did he start playing in December under non bubble conditions, and no vaccine available for months? I think NBA players started getting it in March 2021, on the down low. LMA was gone by March. If he was really injured, he surely would have recovered between February 2020 and August 2020 for something that didn’t require surgery.

No it wasn’t Minny’s pick, they drafted Ant with the first pick in the same draft. Regardless the draft order was nowhere near complete at the time of the bubble so no one knew who might have been available to them, let alone discuss trading them.

LMA has a Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome and had missed games due to irregular heartbeat earlier in the same season(or the previous one) so it’s plausible they wouldn’t have wanted to risk his health. Besides he had a shoulder(I think) injury. It’s way more probable they held him out of the bubble due to these reasons than because of a conspiracy trade that no one could have known the very basics of at the time.

[wildbill2u]

I think GS brought Wiseman back from the G League to get some exposure for a trade. With all the rumors about his lack of interest or bad attitude about his own development they needed something to get some positives if they are giving up on him. I don't think the FO will be interested if he isn't a hgih character player.

[mo7888]

I think GS brought Wiseman back from the G League to get some exposure for a trade. With all the rumors about his lack of interest or bad attitude about his own development they needed something to get some positives if they are giving up on him. I don't think the FO will be interested if he isn't a hgih character player.

I think this is correct....they are going to showcase him in certain situations..

[TD 21]

Great observations... but what stands out to me is that you can get by with journeyman center if you have Steph Curry or Michael Jordan on your team...

I'd even extend your observation to include:


The 2005 Spurs had Rasho at 25.5 mpg and Nazr Mohammed at 18.0 mpg (and I believe Nazr was starting for us in the finals IIRC)
The 2007 Spurs had Francisco Elson (who I don't even slightly remember) at 19.0 mpg and Fabs at 17.3 mpg
The 2014 Spurs had Tiago at 21.5 mpg, Jeff Ayres at 13.0 mpg and Baynes at 9.3 mpg


The 2014 Spurs are the only one among those teams that stand out as not having a prime superstar, but we all already know how special that team was in terms of the beautiful game.

The same Curry who's avoided/beat nothing but injured teams in the playoffs while begging the second best player of his generation to join his team because he was too much of a coward to compete?

The Spurs had a center in those years by the name of Duncan. He just so happened to prefer starting next to another center, so that's what they did.



Another way to think of it could be this: the last eight NBA champions plus the two Miami teams that won it with LeBron were not Center oriented. The Lakers had AD in 2020, who could slide over to C, so maybe they don't quite count, but the Bucks, Raptors, Cavs, and Warrior teams were all constructed with primary strengths other than a powerhouse traditional center. Before that, Dirk won with a good defensive center in Tyson Chandler, the Kobe-led Lakers won two with PF Pau, where Bynum was a lesser piece, and Boston won with PF KG as the important big while Perkins held down the C position. It's been quite a while since a team whose best player was their center won a championship. Even in 2014, Duncan was the spiritual leader but Kawhi had the best advanced stats by far and was the key to slowing down Lebron.

It's all circumstantial.

With apologies to '10 Gasol, who was better than Bryant but not the go-to guy, the only centers in that time capable of being the best player on a championship team have been Davis since about '15, Jokic since about '19 and Embiid since about '20.

In that time, only once did one have a legitimate chance to win a championship ('20 Davis) and he did while being the best player in the playoffs.

I love how when the catch all metrics paint a picture of some rim running vertical spacing center being high impact it's generally diminished, but when it's '14 Scumbag somehow they're the gospel. Never seen a 3 and D type (18.3% usage rate and 10.4% assist rate) so glorified.

Not sure how averaging 28.2 ppg on 67.9% true shooting was "slowing" James down.

[scott]

Another way to think of it could be this: the last eight NBA champions plus the two Miami teams that won it with LeBron were not Center oriented. The Lakers had AD in 2020, who could slide over to C, so maybe they don't quite count, but the Bucks, Raptors, Cavs, and Warrior teams were all constructed with primary strengths other than a powerhouse traditional center. Before that, Dirk won with a good defensive center in Tyson Chandler, the Kobe-led Lakers won two with PF Pau, where Bynum was a lesser piece, and Boston won with PF KG as the important big while Perkins held down the C position. It's been quite a while since a team whose best player was their center won a championship. Even in 2014, Duncan was the spiritual leader but Kawhi had the best advanced stats by far and was the key to slowing down Lebron.

I do think this is a great way of looking at it... but I think we can also look at it as teams with Elite Superstars win titles.

Since 2000, I can only count 3 title teams who won without what I would consider a legit SUPERSTAR. Granted, they still had elite all-star players (some of whom were either once Superstars or would become Superstars)

2004 Pistons
2008 Celtics
2014 Spurs

My only point being... you probably need a superstar to win a chip. He doesn't have to be a C though (and he usually isn't) but I'll take him at any position and if I can get a good C on the roster as well, why not?

[poopbox]

Can Wiseman still be salvaged though? He’s only 21. He just got summoned back from the G-League after averaging 15 and 10 there.

Wiseman problem is the way GS wants him to play. Which is just set screens and switch on defense and catch lobs. They just want him to be part of the steph curry show. Put him in a different environment where he is a focal point on offense and his teammates aren't punching each other in the face and he probably flourishes.

Though our players can't keep their dicks in their pants so this might not be the best environment for him tbh. If you had to choose between being punched by Draymond and seeing Primo's junk, not sure how you'd call it.

[R. DeMurre]

Not sure how averaging 28.2 ppg on 67.9% true shooting was "slowing" James down.

LeBron's #s specifically against Kawhi in that series were more like 9.6pts/7.8rbs/4asts/2stls/3.8tov/0.4blks per game.
He certainly didn't score 28 ppg on Kawhi.
Here's a more in depth breakdown: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3iiwz2/lebrons_statline_vs_kawhi_in_the_2014_finals_an/