FUSION Achieved

[pgardn]

But we are still a long way off from getting enough electricity out of it to really power much of anything.

But hurrah that we actually have what seems to be two methods of achieving fusion of funky Hydrogen nuclei.
Im just learning about it like most others on the board and its going to take a lot of reading and analogies for me to get a better idea what has been done scientifically and technologically. And there are parts that will not be understandable to this poster but at least we have done it. Its not fake and easy like the claims before.

Cheers for us...

[Millennial_Messiah]

Which country developed it? USA? Other first world country? Hopefully not a second world country...

Is it green enough? Is it vastly more effective than solar that it can actually replace coal and natural gas for electricity?

[pgardn]

Which country developed it? USA? Other first world country? Hopefully not a second world country...

Is it green enough? Is it vastly more effective than solar that it can actually replace coal and natural gas for electricity?

US

Green enough... The greenest green. IF making the equipment to make it technological feasible is not environmentally costly.
This is producing zero energy for you and me most likely. Maybe our kids or grandkids. The feat of fusion has been done by humans AND it lets off more energy than we put in. (Now dont go confusing this with defying the conservation of energy, it does not)

The science behind it makes it super green. Fusion is the greenest green on the fundamental level. No burning anything. No digging up radioactive shit. No producing giant panels most likely.
Large scale technology required... its most likely going to be greener than anything you listed. But you are not going to see this be a part of your life most likely.

[Millennial_Messiah]

US

Green enough... The greenest green. IF making the equipment to make it technological feasible is not environmentally costly.
This is producing zero energy for you and me most likely. Maybe our kids or grandkids. The feat of fusion has been done by humans AND it lets off more energy than we put in. (Now dont go confusing this with defying the conservation of energy, it does not)

The science behind it makes it super green. Fusion is the greenest green on the fundamental level. No burning anything. No digging up radioactive shit. No producing giant panels most likely.
Large scale technology required... its most likely going to be greener than anything you listed. But you are not going to see this be a part of your life most likely.

So I'm not going to get to see any of those futuristic fusion power plants getting plopped around anytime soon. I guess the old school Chernobyl-esque ones like the one just east of Toledo Ohio on OH-2 route is the best I'm going to get. Bummer.

[pgardn]

So I'm not going to get to see any of those futuristic fusion power plants getting plopped around anytime soon. I guess the old school Chernobyl-esque ones like the one just east of Toledo Ohio on OH-2 route is the best I'm going to get. Bummer.

Maybe when we are old. We might get to see the start up.

But the cool thing is we did it.
And I’m going to be optimistic. It’s seems very difficult right now. But if we have enough people thinking about it, the sooner it will happen.
So hopefully people tell their kids. Just introduce the interest.

[pgardn]

So I'm not going to get to see any of those futuristic fusion power plants getting plopped around anytime soon. I guess the old school Chernobyl-esque ones like the one just east of Toledo Ohio on OH-2 route is the best I'm going to get. Bummer.

The workable stuff will most likely be big.
Ultimately we will be heating water to steam to turn turbines.
Unless something different than a turbine arise. And it has with solar. Solar just takes a hell of a lot of surface area and you don’t transfer it really long distances. And you need light. Solar could get smaller I guess but I can’t see right now. Good thing other people are thinking about it. That’s what we need imo….Interested people.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The workable stuff will most likely be big.
Ultimately we will be heating water to steam to turn turbines.
Unless something different than a turbine arise. And it has with solar. Solar just takes a hell of a lot of surface area and you don’t transfer it really long distances. And you need light. Solar could get smaller I guess but I can’t see right now. Good thing other people are thinking about it. That’s what we need imo….Interested people.
Solar is impractical right now except for very small scale solutions.

[pgardn]

Solar is impractical right now except for very small scale solutions.

It has its place.
Thats the thing right now, there are so many different innovative ideas that will be practical once the technology and egineering is figured out.
For example, solar and wind both have a storage problem. Some Wind has to be cut off if there is too much wind because of voltage control. Thats waisted energy. Solar can be direct charging but lots of it goes to batteries in homes. Batteries are also interim "leaky" storage devices. Both of these could be used to store energy in a form of potential energy that would not be waisted. Right now, we have experiments and actually working models of excess wind power being used to power pumps that drive water up into old water storage tanks for city tanks not used any more. That water high above the ground is potential energy that could be and is used to drive turbines producing electricity as the water is allowed to flow back down from the tower. The water tower is essentially a giant battery, or a huge holder of excess wind energy that can be use later. Every location can use a different type of energy system depending on there needs. Tidal is becoming big on coasts, geothermal can be used locally very easily. This has come a long way. Fit the energy to the geographical location.

Fusion would make all of this moot. It could be uses basically anywhere, day and night, wind or not. It requires water essentially as fuel. No deadly radioactive fuel or waste for all intents and purposes. It is energy tied up in funky hydrogen found everywhere in water. The biproduct, helium. It would blow the top off of most of our big energy use. We would still need hydrocarbons, batteries, solar, etc... for some small purposes. But the carbon pollution that comes from burning hydrocarbons and coal for big energy needs would be gone. No tearing up land and water to get the fuel. No filling the air with nasty biproducts. No nuclear power plants to hold hostage.

Fusion is huge. We CAN do it. We just have to be able to figure out on a large scale. I would hope schools everywhere would take note of this and possibly teach kids a little more about the atom. Especially the simplest atom, the hydrogen atom. Just get it out there so more people think about it. When it comes, it can make our environment a much better place. I really wish I was just born tbh. I look at those little kids just born with their parents and think " lucky little humans"

If we dont wipe ourselves out before we have a chance to get to it. I have less faith in our survival as a species than I used to. Fusion gives a bit of hope. But with the stupid fn wars we have going on... so damn dumb.

[paperboy77]

Looks like USA will be recognized as 1st in this. It's supposed to be super green but may still be 50 years away before it's even commercialized (they say). I do think however that time-frame can be greatly reduced by contractors driven by $$. Hate to say it but if this were a socialist country there would be no incentive to get this done. Capitalism allows fast-tracking breakthroughs for sure. Hopefully the government will stay out of the way or you can easily add 10-20 years to any real progress.

Either way this is awesome and ultra important so it may be the time to start researching these companies that will expedite this very important process. Get ready to be a Level 1 on the Kardashev scale. Gotta buy that stock now while it's pennies compared to what it will be.

[ChumpDumper]

Looks like USA will be recognized as 1st in this. It's supposed to be super green but may still be 50 years away before it's even commercialized (they say). I do think however that time-frame can be greatly reduced by contractors driven by $$. Hate to say it but if this were a socialist country there would be no incentive to get this done. Capitalism allows fast-tracking breakthroughs for sure. Hopefully the government will stay out of the way or you can easily add 10-20 years to any real progress.Uh, isn't the US National Ignition Facility federally funded?

[TimDunkem]

So I'm not going to get to see any of those futuristic fusion power plants getting plopped around anytime soon. I guess the old school Chernobyl-esque ones like the one just east of Toledo Ohio on OH-2 route is the best I'm going to get. Bummer.
Maybe, maybe not. Look how fast the bombs were created in the early 20th century. I doubt anyone in 1922 thought there would be hydrogen bombs by the 50s.

[paperboy77]

Uh, isn't the US National Ignition Facility federally funded?

I'm sure you are right but this is currently a one time deal, a proof of concept. It's really up to contractors armed with this knowledge to really ramp up old technology that made this first step possible and exponentially reduce the 30-50 year mark the scientists expect. I'm sure the gov will dangle a shitload of cash to make this happen.

According to some of the sites I've seen there really wasn't tons of $ being pumped in to this research over the last few decades. Still the gov will keep little projects going in case it cracks. (Really the gov wasn't the only entity that didn't prioritize this issue due to it being a long shot.) But now that it happened once, maybe a pure coincidence that won't be replicated for a long ass time, but it proves that it can work.

While very exciting also very discouraging. Discouraging because although that Q value they keep talking about was >1, it doesn't take into account the energy required to even "have" the experiment. If they did that value would be way under 1. The energy going into the actual experiment was like 2 mega joules going in and 3 going out.... which yields a 1.5 Q value. Great but the energy to run the experiment was like 4 mega joules. This is where contractors can improve that process so the net energy usage can be a net gain all in all. (Long ways away.)

Still... a phenomenal step forward. Our grand kids will be the beginning of a Star Trek type society where $ isn't everything but human advancement is. Cool times those would be.

AND...

These bitches in the NBA will no longer play for $$$ but only for the love of the game. Just like we like it.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure you are right but this is currently a one time deal, a proof of concept.How do you know that when you didn't know it was a federally funded program in the first place?

We did a socialism and it's awesome.

Be happy.

[paperboy77]

How do you know that when you didn't know it was a federally funded program in the first place?

We did a socialism and it's awesome.

Be happy.

Well Mr. Chumper Dumper... your same wannabe socialist Biden administration held a presser. That's some of what was said.

[ChumpDumper]

Well Mr. Chumper Dumper... your same wannabe socialist Biden administration held a presser. That's some of what was said.

And your whining change the facts.:lol

[Will Hunting]

Looks like USA will be recognized as 1st in this. It's supposed to be super green but may still be 50 years away before it's even commercialized (they say). I do think however that time-frame can be greatly reduced by contractors driven by $$. Hate to say it but if this were a socialist country there would be no incentive to get this done. Capitalism allows fast-tracking breakthroughs for sure. Hopefully the government will stay out of the way or you can easily add 10-20 years to any real progress.

Either way this is awesome and ultra important so it may be the time to start researching these companies that will expedite this very important process. Get ready to be a Level 1 on the Kardashev scale. Gotta buy that stock now while it's pennies compared to what it will be.
There's virtually no for-profit interest in investing in an energy source that's decades away from being viable or commercialized. Investors don't like capital intensive ventures that likely aren't going to produce any returns until they're dead.

If government "stayed out of the way" and wasn't investing in fusion research this entire time, the fusion breakthrough in the OP wouldn't have happened.

[pgardn]

There's virtually no for-profit interest in investing in an energy source that's decades away from being viable or commercialized. Investors don't like capital intensive ventures that likely aren't going to produce any returns until they're dead.

If government "stayed out of the way" and wasn't investing in fusion research this entire time, the fusion breakthrough in the OP wouldn't have happened.

This is exactly why I am not a conservative.
Conservatives hate basic research because they dont see profit immediately and could give a shit about anyone's kids or grandkids.
Short term profiteers that leave a pile of stinking dung behind.

[paperboy77]

There's virtually no for-profit interest in investing in an energy source that's decades away from being viable or commercialized. Investors don't like capital intensive ventures that likely aren't going to produce any returns until they're dead.

If government "stayed out of the way" and wasn't investing in fusion research this entire time, the fusion breakthrough in the OP wouldn't have happened.

Some of the upgrades they say needed to happen was to improve on decades old technology used to actually run these experiments. I'm saying the gov will pay big money to contractors to improve on that tech in order to close the gap from 60 to 10-15 years. There are many players behind the scenes critical to making these things happen.

What I mean by the government staying out of the way is by not red-taping the shit our of these contractors. Government is one of the most inefficient anything's on the planet and tend to demand many ridiculous/unnecessary requirements in order to do business or simply execute the work in a way which could be much more efficient. Government has so many people on the payroll, maybe too many people on the payroll which serve only to be in the way of true progress. A lot of times some of these folks feel the need to justify their positions and try to make a name for themselves by inserting themselves where they are not really needed therefore impeding progress! I see this all the time.

Yes they'll pump in money which we all know make the world go round but in the process they can get political/inefficient and stall process.

[pgardn]

Some of the upgrades they say needed to happen was to improve on decades old technology used to actually run these experiments. I'm saying the gov will pay big money to contractors to improve on that tech in order to close the gap from 60 to 10-15 years. There are many players behind the scenes critical to making these things happen.

What I mean by the government staying out of the way is by not red-taping the shit our of these contractors. Government is one of the most inefficient anything's on the planet and tend to demand many ridiculous/unnecessary requirements in order to do business or simply execute the work in a way which could be much more efficient. Government has so many people on the payroll, maybe too many people on the payroll which serve only to be in the way of true progress. A lot of times some of these folks feel the need to justify their positions and try to make a name for themselves by inserting themselves where they are not really needed therefore impeding progress! I see this all the time.

Yes they'll pump in money which we all know make the world go round but in the process they can get political/inefficient and stall process.

Anyone in any line of work understands someone has to regulate what people produce because some people will make absolute crap and put it on the market that will kill people. Medicine to food. A totally free market would in theory weed out people that chose bad products because they got sick or died. There are companies that dont give a shit about long term customers. We put all kinds of restraints on a totally free market because it has some very unsavory aspects to it.

There are many good products that get held up due to government inefficiency. Part of this is writing bad laws that the government must work with by law. This is a part of our democracy imo because you have con artists and people who just dont give a shit about a product and testing it properly. In theory, the free market should be testing the product on their own. So when a baby goes through the windshield due to a defect in a car seat its up to the public to determine its bad, or do you want another entity overseeing bad actors with dangerous products or products that flat out dont work. We waste so much money on supplements that do absolutely nothing what they claim to do. People keep buying them because they think they work because our government does not have enough money or pushback to get these things off the shelf. They dont kill anyone, and the companies know this and they also know they dont work. So what do we do about this waste of good consumer money? Billions of dollars of money.

[paperboy77]

Anyone in any line of work understands someone has to regulate what people produce because some people will make absolute crap and put it on the market that will kill people. Medicine to food. A totally free market would in theory weed out people that chose bad products because they got sick or died. Their are companies that dont give a shit about long term customers. We put all kinds of restraints on a totally free market because it has some very unsavory aspects to it.

There are many good products that get held up due to government inefficiency. Part of this is writing bad laws that the government must work with by law. This is a part of our democracy imo because you have con artists and people who just dont give a shit about a product and testing it properly. In theory, the free market should be testing the product on their own. So when a baby goes through the windshield due to a defect its up to the public to determine its bad, or do you want another entity overseeing bad actors with dangerous products or products that flat out dont work. We waste so much money on supplements that do absolutely nothing what they claim to do. People keep buying them because they think they work because our government does not have enough money or pushback to get these things off the shelf. They dont kill anyone, and the companies know this and they also know they dont work. So what do we do about this waste of good consumer money? Billions of dollars of money.

I'm not saying government shouldn't be involved. Just saying they sometimes unnecessarily overdo their role in this. Remember they are only people and people have flaws.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not saying government shouldn't be involved. Just saying they sometimes unnecessarily overdo their role in this. Remember they are only people and people have flaws.:lol what are corporations -- robots?

[paperboy77]

Anyone in any line of work understands someone has to regulate what people produce because some people will make absolute crap and put it on the market that will kill people. Medicine to food. A totally free market would in theory weed out people that chose bad products because they got sick or died. Their are companies that dont give a shit about long term customers. We put all kinds of restraints on a totally free market because it has some very unsavory aspects to it.

There are many good products that get held up due to government inefficiency. Part of this is writing bad laws that the government must work with by law. This is a part of our democracy imo because you have con artists and people who just dont give a shit about a product and testing it properly. In theory, the free market should be testing the product on their own. So when a baby goes through the windshield due to a defect its up to the public to determine its bad, or do you want another entity overseeing bad actors with dangerous products or products that flat out dont work. We waste so much money on supplements that do absolutely nothing what they claim to do. People keep buying them because they think they work because our government does not have enough money or pushback to get these things off the shelf. They dont kill anyone, and the companies know this and they also know they dont work. So what do we do about this waste of good consumer money? Billions of dollars of money.




We are going back and forth on this but the real problem is they aren't sure it will be repeated anytime soon. They admitted that it hasn't been repeated since 12/5 and was somewhat luck that they got the sequence just right. They made sure to say that they wonder IF they can do it again.

[pgardn]

We are going back and forth on this but the real problem is they aren't sure it will be repeated anytime soon. They admitted that it hasn't been repeated since 12/5 and was somewhat luck that they got the sequence just right. They made sure to say that they wonder IF they can do it again.

It was done using two different techniques.
But yeah, that’s always a worry, one variable a little of and it does not work.
Also it’s very inefficient right now. It will be practical with the % input v. Output.
Im still have to read and rely on other peoples opinions.
My feeling is they can repeat this after reading. Not only that there may be a variety of ways to get it done.

[pgardn]

This would not have gotten done privately.
No way. Not a this point in time.
Sorry pure free market believers. Not happening.

[DMX7]

We f***** did it!

[pgardn]

We f***** did it!


Followed by USA, USA

China, India, Russian all have people who have worked extensively on fusion in other areas because they have thermonuclear weapons.
Its not looking good in any of these places, especially Russia and China.
Maybe this adds a little incentive for more brain drain from these countries.
The Dept. of Energy will be looking for people.

[DMX7]

Followed by USA, USA

China, India, Russian all have people who have worked extensively on fusion in other areas because they have thermonuclear weapons.
Its not looking good in any of these places, especially Russia and China.
Maybe this adds a little incentive for more brain drain from these countries.
The Dept. of Energy will be looking for people.

USA #1