Grades: Spurs vs. Mavericks - Dec. 31, 2022

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-mavericks-grades-36/

Happy New Year, my guys. :smokin

[spurraider21]

Pity post

[Fireball]

Happy New Year!! Great tanking free throw miss by Tre at the end

[TrainOfThought5]

Great fucking job guys! I love to see it! A+ All Around!

[The Truth #6]

Luka is amazing. I kept thinking how much better he could be if he wasn’t obese, but maybe being fat somehow actually helps him. He’s a trip.

[LeBowen]

Luka is amazing. I kept thinking how much better he could be if he wasn’t obese, but maybe being fat somehow actually helps him. He’s a trip.

I really dislike the fat takes when people talk about Luka and Jokic. Both of them have had ridiculous mileage over the past few seasons and never shown any signs of bad conditioning.
Just remember those double OT playoff games Jokic had or all the clutch plays and game winners from Luka while playing heavy minutes.

Not everyone has the same body type and getting ripped wouldn't help them. Much like it wouldn't help KD.


As for the grades, we need to trade Richardson asap. Malaki is growing into his role, Wesley will be back soon and we have no use for Richardson anymore.
McDermott will at least always be useful as an elite shooter.

I really like that Keldon started attacking the rim again, he will never be a 3pt first type of player. He's kind of forced into that role because of bad spacing.

Jakob's FTs look much better, noticable improvement. 14-19 in last 4 games.

[Sugus]

I really dislike the fat takes when people talk about Luka and Jokic. Both of them have had ridiculous mileage over the past few seasons and never shown any signs of bad conditioning.
Just remember those double OT playoff games Jokic had or all the clutch plays and game winners from Luka while playing heavy minutes.

Not everyone has the same body type and getting ripped wouldn't help them. Much like it wouldn't help KD.

Thank you. It's insane, the way modern culture regarding the gym, body-fitness, and hyper-focus on the human physique, has completely distorted the "good shape", "jacked", "ripped", and "fat" visions in most people's minds.

You can put most world-class athletes of any sport from just the 80's or 90's (that isn't weightlifting lol) on the streets of today, and far from getting good looks and compliments on their bodies, they'd probably get told to hit the weights. Lol.

I'm unironically waiting to see when, if ever, a male body-positivity movement will arise, given how far the pendulum has now swung without much retaliation from the masses. Exactly similar to women's regarding overweight, fat, or obese women being as "valid" as skinny girls, but with "non-gymnastic-bodied" men being as valid as "Greek God" built guys. We'll see what happens.

[The Truth #6]

I think my ultimate point was that it’s hard to say if he would be a different player if he had a different body mass index. Being large may help him play through contact and things like that. There have been trends to improve athletes’ careers and I doubt having a high BMI is one of them. Being skinny like Durant (or what Timmy later evolved into) makes sense for avoiding injuries.

[LeBowen]

I think my ultimate point was that it’s hard to say if he would be a different player if he had a different body mass index. Being large may help him play through contact and things like that. There have been trends to improve athletes’ careers and I doubt having a high BMI is one of them. Being skinny like Durant (or what Timmy later evolved into) makes sense for avoiding injuries.

How is he large? He's 6'7, 230.
Zion is large at 6'6, 285.

[JPB]

Nah, if Luka doesn't get fitter, it's gonna catch him soon.

It's putting a bigger toll on his knees and articulations and make him more eligible for Tearing his ACLs, achilles or something, while massively increasing heart or blood circulation issues probabilities, with all the junk stuff, sugar and salt he must be gobbling... Think Zion. It's gonna anyway dramatically reduce his career as an elite player, specially a PG... He's not gonna be able to pile up the seasons at that level if he doesn't get as fit as he should. No way Lebron is still produing at 38 if he wasn't ripped.

And it's not fat shaming to say this. As an elite, big time paid NBA player, part of his job is to take care of his body...

[JPB]

Not to mention the psychological issues his weight are probably coming from, maybe due to his problems with his mother or the massive pressure he's putting on his shoulders with the national team...He's basically Slovania biggest star and most important person over there...

Luka was much fitter coming in the NBA. So yeah, something happened... The overall personal and professional pressure, I guess.

[John B]

Great game. I wanted the W at the end, but L was great too. Luka wasn’t as big of a jerk in this game, maybe he was going against Pop, not much smirking, tantrums. He’s easy to hate because he’s so good for the opponent, especially with arch-rival Mavs. Truly a generational talent.

Our guys, I like the overall effort. Keldon played great carrying the team, attacking the rim, scoring timely over and over.

Sochan is becoming a top 3 pick in his class. How many double-points has he had? Defensively, he’s able to stay in front of Luka which is the most that he can do. He has a knack on putting back baskets, rebounding. I wish he slammed that steal and would’ve made a different result. His one-handed free throw is a riot. The kid is a star.

Poeltl had a great game with 15?? boards. His FT woes seem becoming a thing of the past. Poeltl moves well and becoming solid offensive player. I hope it continue.

Zollins is another player I’m happy with. He’s been putting up consistent numbers, 6-7 rebounds a game, he defends every shot. He’s becoming a solid backup C.

Stanley, I like his game. Again he’s like Sochan in many ways (plus the reliable range). He can push the ball, arguably top two best point-of-attack defender in our team with Sochan, potentially can guard 1-5. How he became a journeyman with his defense, I don’t know. I hope he’s found a home with the Spurs. He could be a Bruce Bowen.

Branham, not the best game but again he continue playing good backup PG. It’s just consistency.

Overall great effort, and an L so I can say it was a great turnout :bobo

[JPB]

Great game. I wanted the W at the end, but L was great too. Luka wasn’t as big of a jerk in this game, maybe he was going against Pop, not much smirking, tantrums. He’s easy to hate because he’s so good for the opponent, especially with arch-rival Mavs. Truly a generational talent.

Our guys, I like the overall effort. Keldon played great carrying the team, attacking the rim, scoring timely over and over.

Sochan is becoming a top 3 pick in his class. How many double-points has he had? Defensively, he’s able to stay in front of Luka which is the most that he can do. He has a knack on putting back baskets, rebounding. I wish he slammed that steal and would’ve made a different result. His one-handed free throw is a riot. The kid is a star.

Poeltl had a great game with 15?? boards. His FT woes seem becoming a thing of the past. Poeltl moves well and becoming solid offensive player. I hope it continue.

Zollins is another player I’m happy with. He’s been putting up consistent numbers, 6-7 rebounds a game, he defends every shot. He’s becoming a solid backup C.

Stanley, I like his game. Again he’s like Sochan in many ways (plus the reliable range). He can push the ball, arguably top two best point-of-attack defender in our team with Sochan, potentially can guard 1-5. How he became a journeyman with his defense, I don’t know. I hope he’s found a home with the Spurs. He could be a Bruce Bowen.

Branham, not the best game but again he continue playing good backup PG. It’s just consistency.

Overall great effort, and an L so I can say it was a great turnout :bobo

Yeah, lots of promises in that team if you ask me.

[John B]

Yeah, lots of promises in that team if you ask me.

Tbh I like to keep this team if they’re lucky to pull a top 3 on the next draft. The chemistry is there.

[KingKev]

How is he large? He's 6'7, 230.
Zion is large at 6'6, 285.

Crazy because they are 2 of the top 5 or so up and coming NBA superstars. Wemby will be 7’5 230. 35 y/o Dwight Howard is 6’11, 250 built like The Admiral on tren but he is in Taiwan.

Players play.

[exstatic]

Great game. I wanted the W at the end, but L was great too. Luka wasn’t as big of a jerk in this game, maybe he was going against Pop, not much smirking, tantrums. He’s easy to hate because he’s so good for the opponent, especially with arch-rival Mavs. Truly a generational talent.

Our guys, I like the overall effort. Keldon played great carrying the team, attacking the rim, scoring timely over and over.

Sochan is becoming a top 3 pick in his class. How many double-points has he had? Defensively, he’s able to stay in front of Luka which is the most that he can do. He has a knack on putting back baskets, rebounding. I wish he slammed that steal and would’ve made a different result. His one-handed free throw is a riot. The kid is a star.

Poeltl had a great game with 15?? boards. His FT woes seem becoming a thing of the past. Poeltl moves well and becoming solid offensive player. I hope it continue.

Zollins is another player I’m happy with. He’s been putting up consistent numbers, 6-7 rebounds a game, he defends every shot. He’s becoming a solid backup C.

Stanley, I like his game. Again he’s like Sochan in many ways (plus the reliable range). He can push the ball, arguably top two best point-of-attack defender in our team with Sochan, potentially can guard 1-5. How he became a journeyman with his defense, I don’t know. I hope he’s found a home with the Spurs. He could be a Bruce Bowen.

Branham, not the best game but again he continue playing good backup PG. It’s just consistency.

Overall great effort, and an L so I can say it was a great turnout :bobo
Are you kidding me? He was bitching about EVERY call on Dallas, not just himself, and he completely melted down on their bench, because they didn’t call a timeout when we got the turnover and Jeremy missed the layup. He looked like a fucking two year old.

[TD 21]

How is he large? He's 6'7, 230.
Zion is large at 6'6, 285.

According to MacMahon, who covers the Mavericks for ESPN, Doncic plays between 240-250 but has often reported to training camp around 260.

But like all of his antics, he receives a free pass for it because he's virtually the epitome (foreign) of many media and fans wet dream.



Crazy because they are 2 of the top 5 or so up and coming NBA superstars. Wemby will be 7’5 230. 35 y/o Dwight Howard is 6’11, 250 built like The Admiral on tren but he is in Taiwan.

Players play.

Howard is more like 6'10'' 265.

[exstatic]

Crazy because they are 2 of the top 5 or so up and coming NBA superstars. Wemby will be 7’5 230. 35 y/o Dwight Howard is 6’11, 250 built like The Admiral on tren but he is in Taiwan.

Players play.

Agreed, with the caveat that i still think Zions career will be cut short. You can’t play above the rim at that mass without placing enormous stress on your joints a ligaments. I’ll be surprised if he goes much beyond 10 years.

[LeBowen]

According to MacMahon, who covers the Mavericks for ESPN, Doncic plays between 240-250 but has often reported to training camp around 260.


Yeah, he definitely has the Shaq syndrome of playnig himself into shape, I just don't think that going down to like 200-210 would help his game at all. He wouldn't become any quicker and he'd lose some of his ability to bully guards and smaller wings in the post.

As you said later in the post, Zion will have issues because he's playing like a freak athlete. Luka is playing like an old man at YMCA.
Not relying on his youth or athleticism at all.



But like all of his antics, he receives a free pass for it because he's virtually the epitome (foreign) of many media and fans wet dream.

Well, he's not receiving any free passes from the refs. Racking up technicals at Draymond's pace and he definitely won't get any favorable calls in the playoffs.

I don't like the style of play Mavs have, but their roster is jut trash. I'll reserve my final judgement on Luka for when his supporting cast is actually decent. I personally rate Jokic way higher.

[KingKev]

Agreed, with the caveat that i still think Zions career will be cut short. You can’t play above the rim at that mass without placing enormous stress on your joints a ligaments. I’ll be surprised if he goes much beyond 10 years.

Yeah I think he has work todo and hopefully they have the right staff around him but for every above the rim highlight there are 10 plays where he quietly just gets buckets.

[KingKev]

According to MacMahon, who covers the Mavericks for ESPN, Doncic plays between 240-250 but has often reported to training camp around 260.

But like all of his antics, he receives a free pass for it because he's virtually the epitome (foreign) of many media and fans wet dream.




Howard is more like 6'10'' 265.

You are miserable :lmao

[John B]

For every team that passed-up on Luka :lmao.

I don’t know the closest the Spurs could’ve gotten Luka if we traded Kawhi to a “California” team Sacramento for the right to pick him, or any team for that matter. I don’t know if the Spurs made the same mistake to passed up on the opportunity. I hate this kids tantrum, but boy I think ST would be sucking his tits had he been a Spur.

[spurs10]

Luka's averages on the last several games is extraordinary to be sure. They won by 1 point in the end. The team doesn't seem to have that certain something. I'd be surprised if the locker room is all rosy. Luka's constant complaining and temper tantrums are a drag to watch a couple times a year, just imagine if it was daily.

[Mr. Body]

I really dislike the fat takes when people talk about Luka and Jokic. Both of them have had ridiculous mileage over the past few seasons and never shown any signs of bad conditioning.
Just remember those double OT playoff games Jokic had or all the clutch plays and game winners from Luka while playing heavy minutes.

Jokic has definitely had conditioning issues. I believe Doncic has as well.

[Mr. Body]

For every team that passed-up on Luka :lmao.

I don’t know the closest the Spurs could’ve gotten Luka if we traded Kawhi to a “California” team Sacramento for the right to pick him, or any team for that matter. I don’t know if the Spurs made the same mistake to passed up on the opportunity. I hate this kids tantrum, but boy I think ST would be sucking his tits had he been a Spur.

Why are you continuing to spout bullshit rumors?

[Mr. Body]

Agreed, with the caveat that i still think Zions career will be cut short. You can’t play above the rim at that mass without placing enormous stress on your joints a ligaments. I’ll be surprised if he goes much beyond 10 years.

I'm amazed he's lasted this long this year. Those bow-legs and the weight he has, his knees or ankles are going to snap at any moment.

[heyheymymy]

great thoughts in here all around

- I don't know what you want to call it, but Luka D is out of shape. His style of play and sheer talent make it not an issue currently but I agree that it could catch up with him. Last season was even more out of shape, he's looking less haggard this year for sure. But it looks like Luka is at the least eating cheeseburgers, but I'm guessing alcohol and cigarettes too. I'm not saying obese but Luka is very thick. He also get red in the face like a tomato when he's playing. There is def some conditioning issues where he could be better but yeah dropping 51, what more could you ask for tbh and I also agree that losing any weight would net negative where he wouldn't gain much speed/agility at the expense of his bully frame which currently outsizes many of his opponents on the court to Luka's advantage.

- Sochan with the steal and the missed lay in makes a second game this season where he single handily put the team in a position to win where it was not going to have that opportunity before. Incredible stuff. Efficient offensive production last night for someone who can't shoot lol.

- Are we talking about Tre Jones yet? Dude has totally gelled and might be the most underrated contributor right now.

[TD 21]

I don't like the style of play Mavs have, but their roster is jut trash. I'll reserve my final judgement on Luka for when his supporting cast is actually decent. I personally rate Jokic way higher.

People always take shots at the Mavericks, but they actually fit well and have a lot of what you need to contend for championships, they just need a second star obviously.

He's so arrogant and young though, that I'm skeptical he'd even be willing to take a half step back offensively even if they could acquire one.

Jokic has been the best player in the league for going on 3 years, but has Duncan syndrome, as he's the virtual antithesis of the general type of that stature, so he's rarely at the forefront of NBA discourse.


You are miserable :lmao

For pointing out the screwups of an arrogant, insecure, not nearly as knowledgeable as he thinks man child?

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

For every team that passed-up on Luka :lmao.

I don’t know the closest the Spurs could’ve gotten Luka if we traded Kawhi to a “California” team Sacramento for the right to pick him, or any team for that matter. I don’t know if the Spurs made the same mistake to passed up on the opportunity. I hate this kids tantrum, but boy I think ST would be sucking his tits had he been a Spur.

It’s not like he went way at the end of the draft. Ayton was a coin-flip in my mind at the time, and so I can’t blame the Suns for going that route. I had Luka 1 or 2, so ahead of Bagley. Foreign born PG at 3 isn’t really all that much of a miss.

[The Truth #6]

How is he large? He's 6'7, 230.
Zion is large at 6'6, 285.

Sochan is supposed to be 230. Watching him guard Luka, there is no way Luka is the same weight. Remember, I said Luka is awesome. I’m not just hating on him. But he, like Jovic, play an old man game at a young age. Maybe that helps avoid injuries? But I think it’s ok to speculate and debate this objectively. Calling him “obese” was hyperbole most likely. But it’s a medical term as well. If we say he’s 6’7” and 255 that puts his BMI at 28.7. 30 is considered obese. Just saying.

[Mr. Body]

Luka Doncic is a chunky Boi. No real debate about it. Just some lardasses on ST feeling called out about their own corpulence.

[John B]

Why are you continuing to spout bullshit rumors?

I said “IF.” Kawhi wanted a California team as destination and knowing what Luka is not, Spurs could’ve pushed for a trade for Sacramento pick. I didn’t say there was a deal going on.

[exstatic]

I said “IF.” Kawhi wanted a California team as destination and knowing what Luka is not, Spurs could’ve pushed for a trade for Sacramento pick. I didn’t say there was a deal going on.

He didn’t want a California team, he wanted a Los Angeles team, and at the time of the draft, it wasn’t a certainty that the relationship was dead. That didn’t happen until Pop went to SD for his meeting with Kawhi in July.

I also think there was zero chance that Sacto trades #2 for a rental. He walked out on a championship team. There’s no way he stays in Sacto.

[TDMVPDPOY]

clearly this team doesnt have that no.1 option for the last play...

tre how many mistakes is he going to continue to make?

sochan needs to finish those plays after a steal...cant go up with weakass layups monkey shots...

[Spursfanfromafar]

A dude drops 51 points after going up to 60 points, 21 rebounds and 10 assists in one game. And folks here are talking about his weight. Lol.

[Fireball]

A dude drops 51 points after going up to 60 points, 21 rebounds and 10 assists in one game. And folks here are talking about his weight. Lol.

well, how great could he be if he would put more work into his body? dedication in all areas is what makes you great ... right now he is Shaq, but not Kobe

I just want him to shut up ... his constant talking to the referees is horible. Loved how Jeremy poked him here and there. It did not stop Luka but it bothered him and in a playoff scenario where he has to work a bit more for everything that can make a difference.

[XDT76]

A dude drops 51 points after going up to 60 points, 21 rebounds and 10 assists in one game. And folks here are talking about his weight. Lol.

It's what separate the great players vs talented. Westbrook has triple double for 2 seasons. DR has a quadruple double game and AI has multiple scoring champ but were unable to win the championship. Jordan rebuild his body after being mauled by the bad boy pistons and Timmy does physical training every off seasons and change his play, diet and weight at the later part of his career even after winning 4 championships. The attitude of ever improving put them at the top of the game.

[ambchang]

well, how great could he be if he would put more work into his body? dedication in all areas is what makes you great ... right now he is Shaq, but not Kobe

I just want him to shut up ... his constant talking to the referees is horible. Loved how Jeremy poked him here and there. It did not stop Luka but it bothered him and in a playoff scenario where he has to work a bit more for everything that can make a difference.

Shaq > kobe. So what’s the problem?

[ambchang]

It's what separate the great players vs talented. Westbrook has triple double for 2 seasons. DR has a quadruple double game and AI has multiple scoring champ but were unable to win the championship. Jordan rebuild his body after being mauled by the bad boy pistons and Timmy does physical training every off seasons and change his play, diet and weight at the later part of his career even after winning 4 championships. The attitude of ever improving put them at the top of the game.

Jordan whined to the league for rule changes and Pippen and grant grew S players. Timmy had robinson, manu and Parker (then nephew). They didn’t continuously win titles because they worked out, they did because they had great teams. Duncan got a long career because he worked out. Jordan didn’t even have that long a career.

[lefty]

Luka Doncic is a chunky Boi. No real debate about it. Just some lardasses on ST feeling called out about their own corpulence.
:lol

[lefty]

Jordan rebuild his body after being mauled by the bad boy pistons
Yup those rule changes and new Stern special treatment worked wonders in the gym lol

[lefty]

well, how great could he be if he would put more work into his body? dedication in all areas is what makes you great ... right now he is Shaq, but not Kobe

I just want him to shut up ... his constant talking to the referees is horible. Loved how Jeremy poked him here and there. It did not stop Luka but it bothered him and in a playoff scenario where he has to work a bit more for everything that can make a difference.

Luka has been pretty tough in the playoffs so far

And Kobe was the king of verbal flopping, "wooheeeyhahooo!"

[JPB]

A dude drops 51 points after going up to 60 points, 21 rebounds and 10 assists in one game. And folks here are talking about his weight. Lol.

Don't make yourself more stupid than you are, nobody is arguing about his current greatness but about long or even middle term issues his weight will probably cause him.

You just can't get away with that at this level. He's still a young guy and I don't know if his red hot face (that he didn't have earlier in his career and that is not normal for him or any elite athlet) comes from blood pressure but that definitely means he's putting his body in uncomfortable situations and his motor in dangerous zones. That might still not show in exams and be OK when you're still 23 and can recover quickly, but 4-5 years at that weight and intensity and dude will explose...

Hell, maybe just 2 years would do it.

[lefty]

D
You just can't get away with that at this level. He's still a young guy and I don't know if his red hot face (that he didn't have earlier in his career and that is not normal for him or any elite athlet) comes from blood pressure but that definitely means he's putting his body in uncomfortable situations and his motor in dangerous zones.
Noticed that too

[Texas_Ranger]

Doncic had problems at the beginning of last season when he got to the nba out of shape and pretty fat. By mid December he already started to look like now and had an amazing season. That 1.5 month of playing subpar for his standars also probably cost him the MVP. But yea, he will have to stay in shape if he want's to have a long career. Right now the weight helps him a lot during post ups and in rebounding situations, where he's just much bigger and stronger than the opponent. There is no way the 2018 Luka could play post up like he is now. That's why he looked like a version of Harden, when he came into the league, while right now he's nothing like Harden and has a much better all around game. So, he'll probably never get into a shape like LeBron or Giannis, but he should at least stay like he is now, or even lose 10-15 pounds for his own good. I'm pretty sure he won't keep this run that he's having all season. People that watched him for longer time know that he gets tired after some time. So i wont be surprised if Dallas gives him a 15 day ''injury'' rest, even tho they can't really do that, cause they'd lose all the games without him. So lets see.... Oh and Zion is for sure gonna be done by the time he's 30. He's a smaller version of Amare and once the athleticism goes, he'll be fucked. Same could happen to Giannis, who is probably a worse shooter than 50% people on this forum, and even tho he's working on his shot every year more and more, there really aint that big of an improvement, so good luck to him as long as he can run and dunk and get free throws.

[scott]

Luka is an alien. The only thing I truly dislike about him is that he is a Maverick.

[KingKev]

Luka is an alien. The only thing I truly dislike about him is that he is a Maverick.

I think one day if Keldon and Vassell work REALLY, REALLY hard and trust in the PATFO system they can combine for 60/20/10.

[ismael-robert]

Jokic shouldn't be in weight convo anymore. He did what he needed to do and is now a slender player. I don't think Luka would stay a Spur with his attitude

[exstatic]

Luka is an alien. The only thing I truly dislike about him is that he is a Maverick.

The only thing I truly dislike is that he has the emotional control of a two year old.

[Mr. Body]

Luka is an alien. The only thing I truly dislike about him is that he is a Maverick.

And that he's a whiny little bitch.

[lefty]

He is super whiny

But at the same time he is very competitive and I respect that

[JPB]

He is super whiny

But at the same time he is very competitive and I respect that

No doubt he doesn't like to lose but more than whiny he sometimes look paranoid, like there's a world wide conspiracy against him..That's one thing to be competitive but you can still stay classy, respect the game and opponents. Hello Timmy...

Same with his NT during last olympics in the semi against France, he almost tore his jersey apart in furious rage yelling at the ref on the last play where they lost the game (after he basically refused to take the shoot) for a phantom call that no one on Earth besides him had seen, then basically explaining on record afterwards that they could'nt win anyway because FIBA (whose president is french or was anyway) had plotted to make France win, while he had the potential game winner in his hands.

He's an amazing player but he needs to chill out.

[lefty]

He's an amazing player but he needs to chill out.

But Luka Don’chill out





I’ll let myself out

[Thomas82]

I'm amazed he's lasted this long this year. Those bow-legs and the weight he has, his knees or ankles are going to snap at any moment.

He left early with a hamstring injury tonight.