Grades: Spurs at Knicks - Jan. 4, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-knicks-grades-38/

Good loss, boys and girls.

[ragas]

Poeltl was largely unimpressive. Offensively, he was a beat or two out of rhythm and the Knicks showed him little to no respect on that end. Poeltl was better on defense and rebounding-wise but he was rarely able to move the needle. I won’t say he lacked effort but I will say Poeltl lacked grunt against the Knicks. On this night, the Austrian was clearly the second best center on the Spurs.

First of all: I haven't seen the game, but when I'm looking at the net-ratings, I'm wondering. Poeltl had the best net-rating (6.8) behind McBuckets (23.7), being only one of three positive players. He had the most rebounds, the most contested shots and Mitchell Robinson was non-existent. How could he have been so bad or have lacked effort? Worse than Collins, who had a negative net-rating (although he played with McBuckets, Richardson & St. Johnson, who all shot over 60%) and didn't rebound at all?

[John B]

It was an L that they need. I continually like what Collins is doing. He’s averaging almost 10 pt, 5 rebounds, 2 assists and a block shot a game, pretty impressive for a backup center. Keep it up.

Sochan, I agree he needs to do more, particularly on offense. But I’m not worried.

Not a good game for Jak. I don’t know why he’s so inconsistent offensively. His FT though is a vast improvement.

Stanley continuous to play well.

Keldon I already know what he brings. JRich and McBuckets I like, but I’m sure Pop is showcasing for the inevitable.

Next game against the Detroit is huge and could put Spurs to 3rd in the L column. Pop needs to get kicked out early

[exstatic]

I think if Detroit doesn’t win last night, we would have had a shot to drop fridays game, but that win dropped them from 1 to 3. I expect that to act as a splash of cold water that reactivates their tank.

[John B]

I think if Detroit doesn’t win last night, we would have had a shot to drop fridays game, but that win dropped them from 1 to 3. I expect that to act as a splash of cold water that reactivates their tank.

They won 3 out of 5 games though. Let’s hope they continue to play well, the Pistons that is :lol

[The Truth #6]

Tre Jones is someone I’ve defended in general because I never understood the hate but I thought he would make more progress this year. His outside shot never progressed. His shooting style looks forced. At this point I’m ok giving point guard duties back to Sochan more and more.

[CGD]

Wow, Charlotte is going for it! They’re worst in the league now

[Mr. Body]

Tre Jones is someone I’ve defended in general because I never understood the hate but I thought he would make more progress this year. His outside shot never progressed. His shooting style looks forced. At this point I’m ok giving point guard duties back to Sochan more and more.

I don't understand this take at all.

Last year he was pretty marginal on the team. What he's done this year is fantastic. He's now proven himself a terrific backup at least and one with a great future wherever he goes.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't understand this take at all.

Last year he was pretty marginal on the team. What he's done this year is fantastic. He's now proven himself a terrific backup at least and one with a great future wherever he goes.

I keep seeing more and more talk about Anthony Black. The PG for the Razorbacks. I really like the flow of that kids game. Feels like its maybe a bit redundant if they're truly going to utilize Sochan at point but Tre would be the perfect change of style backup pg to Black if we drafted him and it looks like Black is going to go in the 4-7 range where we'll likely fall.

I doubt we end up 1 or 2. I like Black outside the top 3

[mo7888]

I keep seeing more and more talk about Anthony Black. The PG for the Razorbacks. I really like the flow of that kids game. Feels like its maybe a bit redundant if they're truly going to utilize Sochan at point but Tre would be the perfect change of style backup pg to Black if we drafted him and it looks like Black is going to go in the 4-7 range where we'll likely fall.

I doubt we end up 1 or 2. I like Black outside the top 3

I like Black too but not that high...probably 10-15 range right now..

[The Truth #6]

I don't understand this take at all.

Last year he was pretty marginal on the team. What he's done this year is fantastic. He's now proven himself a terrific backup at least and one with a great future wherever he goes.

I already saw him as a good back up, I thought he was actually fairly productive last year in more limited minutes. With increased minutes this year I don’t think he’s actually taken much of a leap to be honest. The outside shot has not improved. Yes, he’s getting more comfortable on the floor but I think that’s just from having increased minutes. If someone who has advanced stats to show me I’m happy to change my mind, but I think his shooting touch was off for the vast majority of the year so far. Again, I still think he’s a quality back up. That was never a debate for me, but I thought he would be getting closer to how productive his brother is and that’s not happening yet as far as I can tell. And even if his shot is not falling, I thought he would be more of a “floor general”, in the general way that even Avery Johnson could be a horrible shooter, but still find ways to impact the team. But we’re a crappy team, so I suppose it kind of drags everyone down a little bit.

[The Truth #6]

I like Black too but not that high...probably 10-15 range right now..

I’m nowhere close to making any grand assessments about college prospects yet, but I did find this scouting report on Anthony Black interesting:

https://youtu.be/GefTqCnvrhw

[Mr. Body]

Well, if you set up arbitrarily too-high expectations for a third year player who has doubled his minutes, most of them now against starting-caliber opposition, I guess you're going to be disappointed.

[The Truth #6]

Also he’s from Texas and his stepdad is from San Antonio…

[The Truth #6]

Well, if you set up arbitrarily too-high expectations for a third year player who has doubled his minutes, most of them now against starting-caliber opposition, I guess you're going to be disappointed.

What progress has he made? Isn’t that what this is really about? Not analyzing other posters.

[mo7888]

I’m nowhere close to making any grand assessments about college prospects yet, but I did find this scouting report on Anthony Black interesting:

https://youtu.be/GefTqCnvrhw

I'm not making an assessment on where he'll be come draft time but, I do a first round big board every year with tiers and it evolves as the season goes along.... right now that's about the range I have him.

[lefty]

That 5 second clock violation was clearly intended
Subtle tanking FTW :lol

[Mr. Body]

That 5 second clock violation was clearly intended
Subtle tanking FTW :lol

Judging by the look on Sochan's face... no.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not making an assessment on where he'll be come draft time but, I do a first round big board every year with tiers and it evolves as the season goes along.... right now that's about the range I have him.

The way he moves and the feel for the game he has definitely looks like a top 8 player. His jump shot is a little low and he has kinda of a shot put form but if he holds through the season I wouldn’t feel bad at all if we reached with say a 5th pick for him.

Like Sochan he looks like an intangibles guy and creator on both ends.

Looks like Keldon and Vassell would benefit from his style.

[The Truth #6]

The way he moves and the feel for the game he has definitely looks like a top 8 player. His jump shot is a little low and he has kinda of a shot put form but if he holds through the season I wouldn’t feel bad at all if we reached with say a 5th pick for him.

Like Sochan he looks like an intangibles guy and creator on both ends.

Looks like Keldon and Vassell would benefit from his style.

Agree. I could see the spurs targeting him as their type of player even if he is predicted to go later, that is if we have like the fourth or fifth pick like you said.

[Atl Spur]

Defense……. The black kid plays hungry! This draft appears super deep!

[mo7888]

The way he moves and the feel for the game he has definitely looks like a top 8 player. His jump shot is a little low and he has kinda of a shot put form but if he holds through the season I wouldn’t feel bad at all if we reached with say a 5th pick for him.

Like Sochan he looks like an intangibles guy and creator on both ends.

Looks like Keldon and Vassell would benefit from his style.

He may go that high but I'm not there yet with him.... as for a fit with the Spurs (my board is just who I think will have the best career) I'm concerned about having to many 'intangible' guys that aren't able to shoot. I need to see a little more outside shooting from Black but he's a good player and might even end up as a good fit. He's one of the guys I'd look hard at if we were able to get a 2nd late lottery pick to add to our own.

[lefty]

Judging by the look on Sochan's face... no.

I should have used the blue font

[BacktoBasics]

He may go that high but I'm not there yet with him.... as for a fit with the Spurs (my board is just who I think will have the best career) I'm concerned about having to many 'intangible' guys that aren't able to shoot. I need to see a little more outside shooting from Black but he's a good player and might even end up as a good fit. He's one of the guys I'd look hard at if we were able to get a 2nd late lottery pick to add to our own.
I don’t disagree with any of this. Obviously when you’re this bad you want the best available over the best fit. We clearly lack a number 1 scorer.

Looking at the other potential players that have the potential top 5 relevance. We have Amen, Nick Smith, Miller and I guess that Jackson kid.

Wouldn’t any of those require us to move Keldon or Vassell either to the bench or trade. We’re definitely not putting Keldon back at the 4 with Sochan.

Might be one of the rare situations where fit would carry more value to us than a redundant talent that may or may not be better than what we have.

Amen is very interesting to me though. He might be the only one I’d take over Black.

But like you guys said. It’s early.

[mo7888]

I don’t disagree with any of this. Obviously when you’re this bad you want the best available over the best fit. We clearly lack a number 1 scorer.

Looking at the other potential players that have the potential top 5 relevance. We have Amen, Nick Smith, Miller and I guess that Jackson kid.

Wouldn’t any of those require us to move Keldon or Vassell either to the bench or trade. We’re definitely not putting Keldon back at the 4 with Sochan.

Might be one of the rare situations where fit would carry more value to us than a redundant talent that may or may not be better than what we have.

Amen is very interesting to me though. He might be the only one I’d take over Black.

But like you guys said. It’s early.

I like Amen alot (I like his brother too). I see him as a PG and think he'd be a great pick here. I have him 3 overall right now. I had Nick Smith at 3 and Amen at 4 initially but, the knee issue with Smith has me cautious.

As for the topic of redundancy, I just think we have to take the best player with the highest upside with our pick. If its redundant then we look to trade somebody already on the roster. If it's KJ or Devin then so be it. I'm not looking to trade those guys but where we sit we just have to take the best and figure the rest out. Also, even if we did have to trade say Keldon for example, it doesn't necessarily mean trade him right away...that could be a year or two down the road depending on how mature or raw our draft pick is.

[exstatic]

I don’t disagree with any of this. Obviously when you’re this bad you want the best available over the best fit. We clearly lack a number 1 scorer.

Looking at the other potential players that have the potential top 5 relevance. We have Amen, Nick Smith, Miller and I guess that Jackson kid.

Wouldn’t any of those require us to move Keldon or Vassell either to the bench or trade. We’re definitely not putting Keldon back at the 4 with Sochan.

Might be one of the rare situations where fit would carry more value to us than a redundant talent that may or may not be better than what we have.

Amen is very interesting to me though. He might be the only one I’d take over Black.

But like you guys said. It’s early.

We drafted a G, a SF, and a PF last summer, and no one got traded. Granted, the PF slot was open, but still.

I have a real problem with Overtime Elite. They play a trash schedule, so it’s hard to tell how good any of them really are. If you’re confident in your ability, and don’t want to go to college, play for the Ignite. At least there, you’ll play against NBA assigned players and 2 ways.

[BacktoBasics]

We drafted a G, a SF, and a PF last summer, and no one got traded. Granted, the PF slot was open, but still.

I have a real problem with Overtime Elite. They play a trash schedule, so it’s hard to tell how good any of them really are. If you’re confident in your ability, and don’t want to go to college, play for the Ignite. At least there, you’ll play against NBA assigned players and 2 ways.

I was never under the impression that the players we drafted were taken as cornerstone pieces. Sochan allowed Keldon to move to the 4 so it made sense.

[BacktoBasics]

I like Amen alot (I like his brother too). I see him as a PG and think he'd be a great pick here. I have him 3 overall right now. I had Nick Smith at 3 and Amen at 4 initially but, the knee issue with Smith has me cautious.

As for the topic of redundancy, I just think we have to take the best player with the highest upside with our pick. If its redundant then we look to trade somebody already on the roster. If it's KJ or Devin then so be it. I'm not looking to trade those guys but where we sit we just have to take the best and figure the rest out. Also, even if we did have to trade say Keldon for example, it doesn't necessarily mean trade him right away...that could be a year or two down the road depending on how mature or raw our draft pick is.

Is was under the impression that Amen was a 3 with good court vision not a floor general especially when compared to Black in that regard. Amen certainly looks to have the athleticism which this team needs.

[mo7888]

Is was under the impression that Amen was a 3 with good court vision not a floor general especially when compared to Black in that regard. Amen certainly looks to have the athleticism which this team needs.

There's some differing opinions on that...several evaluators think he can play the 1 and see Ausar as a 3.