Shams: Boston Celtics are trading C/F Noah Vonleh and cash consideration to the San Antonio Spurs

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)9s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1611075160320139276)
The Boston Celtics are trading C/F Noah Vonleh and cash consideration to the San Antonio Spurs, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). The Spurs will waive Gorgui Dieng to create roster space, sources said.

[slick'81]

Dude is terrible. Maybe another reclamation project

[spurraider21]

hope this cash consideration guy will be a good fit alongside wemby

[K...]

they want this guy?

"This is a true non-guaranteed contract, not an Exhibit 10 (guys headed to the G-League). Vonleh, a 6’10” stretch four/five, played last season in China, and while that is a league not exactly known for impressive defense, Vonleh put up solid numbers, as friend of the site Keith Smith points out."

you don't salary dump a 1 yr contract right? does boston want a roster spot and paid to clear him?

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)16s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1611076180878188545)Spurs are waiving Vonleh too, sources said.

[K...]

"e veteran big man’s deal will become fully guaranteed if he is not waived before Jan. 7. After getting a few opportunities early in the season, he was passed on the depth chart by Luke Kornet, and now Robert Williams’s return has reduced his value even more. Look for Vonleh to be waived to give the Celtics extra flexibility at the trade deadline and in the ensuing buyout market,” Himmelsbach said."

https://heavy.com/sports/boston-celtics/noah-vonleh-potentially-waived/

[spurraider21]

they want this guy?

"This is a true non-guaranteed contract, not an Exhibit 10 (guys headed to the G-League). Vonleh, a 6’10” stretch four/five, played last season in China, and while that is a league not exactly known for impressive defense, Vonleh put up solid numbers, as friend of the site Keith Smith points out."

you don't salary dump a 1 yr contract right? does boston want a roster spot and paid to clear him?
boston just shedding luxury tax money. spurs have all the room in the world to eat a cap hit without approaching tax (vonleh will be waived)

if spurs got nothing except cash then its just ownership deciding "look if you arent going to use all this cap space to acquire assets im just going to use it to make some cash"

[slick'81]

And hes gone

[scott]

Open roster spot now... could this finally be the full contract for Bassey we've been waiting for?

[mo7888]

boston just shedding luxury tax money. spurs have all the room in the world to eat a cap hit without approaching tax (vonleh will be waived)

if spurs got nothing except cash then its just ownership deciding "look if you arent going to use all this cap space to acquire assets im just going to use it to make some cash"

Could be as simple as making a few bucks but, it could be a prelude to another move with an open roster spot.

[heyheymymy]

This was all to clear a roster spot. More moves incoming?

[exstatic]

Open roster spot now... could this finally be the full contract for Bassey we've been waiting for?

They’d have to guarantee it on Saturday, and that wouldn’t leave us a roster spot to accept trade salary. He’s not going anywhere. He’s signed to the two way for the season. After the trade and cut deadlines, they can always convert him. No reason to do it now, and at least one reason not to.

[Mr. Body]

Straight cash homey. Gangsta.

[heyheymymy]

Makes me wonder if this downgrades the likelihood to trade Poeltl since Dieng was C depth. Kinda thought Dieng was brought on to upfill in case the team got a solid offer on Poeltl and moved on it, but it feels like the mood shifted to Poeltl and SA seeing a future together and him staying on now?

[spurraider21]

Could be as simple as making a few bucks but, it could be a prelude to another move with an open roster spot.
if it was all about the roster spot they could have just waived dieng and not done this trade. this trade used up some of our cap room in exchange for cash

[exstatic]

Could be as simple as making a few bucks but, it could be a prelude to another move with an open roster spot.

We could have just waived Gorgui anytime instead of today. Pretty complicated way to just open a spot. Waive Gorgui, trade for Vonleh, waive Vonleh. Boston may have something up their sleeve

I’d be curious to know what went to Boston, because something has to. Maybe the rights to 40 YO Adam Hanga? Or a second trade of Printeza’s rights which we got back from Toronto last year year?

[Mr. Body]

Get closer to the cap floor, then can shut things down for the trade deadline. Easy peasy.

[spurraider21]

We could have just waived Gorgui anytime instead of today. Pretty complicated way to just open a spot. Waive Gorgui, trade for Vonleh, waive Vonleh. Boston may have something up their sleeve

I’d be curious to know what went to Boston, because something has to. Maybe the rights to 40 YO Adam Hanga? Or a second trade of Printeza’s rights which we got back from Toronto last year year?
could be something like a future top 59 protected second round pick. or like you said, someone's rights that dont matter. just appears to be a tax cutting move for celtics that also opened up a roster spot, imo.

[exstatic]

could be something like a future top 59 protected second round pick. or like you said, someone's rights that dont matter. just appears to be a tax cutting move for celtics that also opened up a roster spot, imo.

With secondrounders, I think you can only protect to 55. No pick was mentioned, so unless it was a boatload of cash, doubt one went back to Boston.

[spurraider21]

With secondrounders, I think you can only protect to 55. No pick was mentioned, so unless it was a boatload of cash, doubt one went back to Boston.
whatever it is. this just feels like that marquese chriss trade again

https://www.spurstalk.com/why-the-spurs-trading-for-marquese-chriss-is-bad-news-for-spurs-fans/

[CGD]

This was all to clear a roster spot. More moves incoming?

Think it was just good housekeeping by BOS to avoid tax implications. And for Spurs it’s one of those “good will” moves that help down the road. Seems like the cash is to cover any cost of waiving Vonleh.

[Robz4000]

whatever it is. this just feels like that marquese chriss trade again

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289783

Absolutely what it was tbh.

[mo7888]

We could have just waived Gorgui anytime instead of today. Pretty complicated way to just open a spot. Waive Gorgui, trade for Vonleh, waive Vonleh. Boston may have something up their sleeve

I’d be curious to know what went to Boston, because something has to. Maybe the rights to 40 YO Adam Hanga? Or a second trade of Printeza’s rights which we got back from Toronto last year year?

I think you're right about what's going back it'll be something that amounts to nothing. As for the roster spot and our cap, I don't they're concerned about cap room right now. I didn't mean to imply a major secondary move that would require alot of cap space. I'm thinking something minor and they pulled in a few bucks to boot.

[Mr. Body]

This is to show Sochan what happens to PFs drafted with the #9 pick who suck. They go play in China then get passed around for cash.

[spurraider21]

saves boston about 7 mil on their luxury tax bill.

spurs eat like 1.2 mil to waive vonleh, 1.8 to move on from dieng. imagine celtics sent something like 3 mil or w/e

[Seventyniner]

Can the Spurs just re-sign Gorgui now?

[JPB]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)9s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1611075160320139276)
The Boston Celtics are trading C/F Noah Vonleh and cash consideration to the San Antonio Spurs, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). The Spurs will waive Gorgui Dieng to create roster space, sources said.

9s... Man, you're stalking Charania?

[heyheymymy]

business move more than a basketball move

but it shows the front office is working

[DPG21920]

boston just shedding luxury tax money. spurs have all the room in the world to eat a cap hit without approaching tax (vonleh will be waived)

if spurs got nothing except cash then its just ownership deciding "look if you arent going to use all this cap space to acquire assets im just going to use it to make some cash"

Spurs are below the 111M tax floor anyways…so they were going to have to spend 14M in salaries above what they already have regardless. This allows them to recoup some of that money and open a roster spot no problem at all. So it’s smart even if not a basketball move per se.

[DPG21920]

We could have just waived Gorgui anytime instead of today. Pretty complicated way to just open a spot. Waive Gorgui, trade for Vonleh, waive Vonleh. Boston may have something up their sleeve

I’d be curious to know what went to Boston, because something has to. Maybe the rights to 40 YO Adam Hanga? Or a second trade of Printeza’s rights which we got back from Toronto last year year?

Prob some 2nd round pick that never conveys or like you said some meaningless draft rights.

[spurraider21]

Spurs are below the 111M tax floor anyways…so they were going to have to spend 14M in salaries above what they already have regardless. This allows them to recoup some of that money and open a roster spot no problem at all. So it’s smart even if not a basketball move per se.
theres no dire need to reach the cap floor. if we dont, the players on our roster just get some extra money at the end of the year. all this accomplished is using up a small amount of cap space that we theoretically could have made use of in exchange for lining ownership's pockets

[DPG21920]

theres no dire need to reach the cap floor. if we dont, the players on our roster just get some extra money at the end of the year. all this accomplished is using up a small amount of cap space that we theoretically could have made use of in exchange for lining ownership's pockets

No - there is no dire need but you are spending the money whether its to our guys or Vonleh. But at least in the Vonleh case SA gets 1-2M back that the otherwise would not have. So they spent the same they would have either way but got 1-2M back I’m guessing.

But ya, only difference in cap floor and this path is SA has 1M less (that is how much Vonleh is owed more or less rest of season) in cap space to absorb other deals in other trades.

[spurraider21]

No - there is no dire need but you are spending the money whether its to our guys or Vonleh. But at least in the Vonleh case SA gets 1-2M back that the otherwise would not have. So they spent the same they would have either way but got 1-2M back I’m guessing.
"SA" doesnt get the money. just the owners

[DPG21920]

"SA" doesnt get the money. just the owner.

You know that is what I meant lol

[Chinook]

You know that is what I meant lol

The Spurs don't save money against the floor. The floor is based ln cash paid, not the salary slotted. The Spurs didn't pay Vonleh anything and thus didn't change their floor math.

There was a time I really wanted SA to get Noah. Funny how things work out.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs don't save money against the floor. The floor is based ln cash paid, not the salary slotted. The Spurs didn't pay Vonleh anything and thus didn't change their floor math.

There was a time I really wanted SA to get Noah. Funny how things work out.

Wait…why would they not pay Vonleh? They traded for him with a guaranteed salary and waived him. Would they not in theory owe him that 1M salary he has remaining thus rendering it cash paid?

[spurraider21]

You know that is what I meant lol
sure, but when you say "SA gets 1-2 back that they otherwise would not have" it kinda implies its for the benefit of the team

[DPG21920]

sure, but when you say "SA gets 1-2 back that they otherwise would not have" it kinda implies its for the benefit of the team

I can see that - when I say SA I typically am referring to ownership vs “team” or “basketball” but definitely helps to be more clear

[DPG21920]

The “good” news is this shows SA is somewhat active. Yeah, it’s an ownership/cash move and not a basketball move but it shows they are having these conversations. I am guessing they are busier than ever here.

FO has made more moves last 2 years than nearly all previous 15 combined and I am expecting a busier than normal deadline for SA. Whether that is trading guys like Richardson/Jak or using their cap scape to absorb deals for picks.

If anything, this sends a message to teams looking to shed salary that SA is down to help…

Side note: SA and BOS seem really cozy lately…:married:

[DPG21920]

Already been shared here but here’s the math on BOS side again:

1611080715621261346

[jjspur]

Possibly looks like a move to trade one or two of our players for two or more other players. Its like the spurs have a shiny new quarter in their pocket but don't quite know what to spend it on. With the spurs it could also mean nothing but a financial move. Only Pop and Brian Wright know for sure.

[DPG21920]

What is interesting is seeing some say Vonleh deal doesn’t become guaranteed until 1/7. If so, why would BOS need to trade to save the money vs just waive him? Guessing it’s because if they were going to pay, they would rather have the trade exception via trading him than just waiving him?

Seems odd…hopefully SA didn’t do this for free lol

[Mr. Body]

Vonleh nearly joined fellow disappointing one-year-and-drafted Indiana Hoosier Romeo Langford on the roster. Fortunately Langford has been moderately better in his career.

[Dverde]

Interesting to see where Dieng lands…someone will pick him up.

[DPG21920]

1611078609669861377

[DPG21920]

Interesting to see where Dieng lands…someone will pick him up.

Probably because he’s such a good dude, but man, he has been pretty bad. Doesn’t seem like an NBA player any more IMO

[CGD]

What is interesting is seeing some say Vonleh deal doesn’t become guaranteed until 1/7. If so, why would BOS need to trade to save the money vs just waive him? Guessing it’s because if they were going to pay, they would rather have the trade exception via trading him than just waiving him?

Seems odd…hopefully SA didn’t do this for free lol

It’s a good question. My only thought was that there was some guaranteed money on the deal?

[CGD]

Interesting to see where Dieng lands…someone will pick him up.

My sense is that spurs always wanted to keep an open slot but that Stanley over-performed expectations. Meanwhile Dieng has trended the other way.

[DPG21920]

I am obviously missing something but the reasons for the math and trading vs them just waiving aren’t clear to me. It’s obvious there is a reason I am just missing the math/rule that is triggering this.

Edit: I am a dummy. Think it’s just as simple as: even though BOS already paid Vonleh what he was owed, when you trade him for tax purposes all of that salary is removed.

So if they waived him, that 1M they paid him + taxes would be due, but by trading him, that 1M is gone since they paid, but the salary is all removed for tax purposes. Then on SA side, since Vonleh is not guaranteed until 1/7, they waive him, pay him nothing and prob get some cash for their efforts in how much they save BOS

[CGD]

^ A couple more notes from aggregators:

- The Celtics will generate a small $1.16MM traded player exception (could be the motivaron for trade v waive)

- spurs apparently have to send something out like a heavily protected SRP. Maybe they can send that useless Indy second from the Dougie deal.

[scott]

This looks nothing more than SA doing a favor to Boston, make a little bit of cash (I saw something like $3.1MM going SA's way to cover their costs and make a little on top), but mostly developing goodwill with other teams.

[TD 21]

^ The reason the Celtics paid the Spurs to take Vonleh is to clear his salary off their books, which counts for double considering they're already a projected tax payer.

As for the open roster spot, they were always going to have to clear one to convert Bassey at some point. The alternative would have been waiving probably Roby or possibly Bates-Diop.

[spurraider21]

1611094196827611137

[slick'81]

Spurs giving up a 2 for that $$

[heyheymymy]

bluefont

shit Vonleh already waived? I just ordered a custom Fiesta Vonleh jersey.

[spurraider21]

Spurs giving up a 2 for that $$
its a 2 that will never convey. had to give something on paper, but are giving nothing in reality.

only thing that was done was our owners made a little bit of money and the team lost a little bit of cap space

[DPG21920]

Spurs giving up a 2 for that $$

It wont convey…that protected pick is the standard “worst pick you can trade” in trades like this and rarely do they convey.

[Mugen]

:lol Poverty Franchise

[spurraider21]

:lol Poverty Franchise
https://media2.giphy.com/media/3owzVUiFwqAME37e7u/giphy.gif

[Mr. Body]

:lol Poverty Franchise

Mugen: "Why, yes, I'd turn down a couple million dollars for doing nothing. Yes, I would."

[Chinook]

Wait…why would they not pay Vonleh? They traded for him with a guaranteed salary and waived him. Would they not in theory owe him that 1M salary he has remaining thus rendering it cash paid?

He was non-guaranteed.

[spurraider21]

:lmao people cheerleading for ownership's bank statements

[exstatic]

Mugen: "Why, yes, I'd turn down a couple million dollars for doing nothing. Yes, I would."
I’m guessing that the HollywoodLakerswould jump at the chance to shave several million off of Westbrooks awful contract.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao people cheerleading for ownership's bank statements

I fucking hate rich people, but this transaction doesn't fucking matter. If anything it's an act of comity between franchises.

[exstatic]

:lmao people cheerleading for ownership's bank statements

If you dislike rich people or seeing their bank statements rise, you should want nothing to do with NBA franchises OR players.

[KingKev]

Plot twist: Cash Considerations is actually the name of a 6’5, 260lb, high character tweener PATFO is super high on.

[spurraider21]

If you dislike rich people or seeing their bank statements rise, you should want nothing to do with NBA franchises OR players.
im a fan of the spurs basketball team. i like the sport. thats why i watch, and thats the extent of what i care about

my rooting interest is not in the wealth of any particular owner. a move that doesnt help the spurs but lines the owner's pocket is not one that i cheerlead for

[slick'81]

im a fan of the spurs basketball team. i like the sport. thats why i watch, and thats the extent of what i care about

my rooting interest is not in the wealth of any particular owner. a move that doesnt help the spurs but lines the owner's pocket is not one that i cheerlead for


no shit! Fck the owners thh

[exstatic]

no shit! Fck the owners thh

LeBronis probably wealthier than the Holt clan.

[Mr. Body]

This is like the Stanley Johnson pick-up where people were freaking out trying to read the tea leaves what this meant for the franchise moving forward. Like, if you're even remotely, one iota worried or even interested in what happened with this Noah Vonleh thing, don't. It literally is next to nothing. Go touch grass. Kiss your mom. Something.

[offset formation]

Wut? would much rather have Dieng.

I increasingly don't get this team's moves.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I fucking hate rich people, but this transaction doesn't fucking matter. If anything it's an act of comity between franchises.

Why do you hate rich people? The vast majority of rich people got that way providing goods or services that benefitted many people. Why would you hate someone for making people’s lives better?

[offset formation]

Why do you hate rich people? The vast majority of rich people got that way providing goods or services that benefitted many people. Why would you hate someone for making people’s lives better?

lol, wut?

no, "most" of them started off wealthy or with advantages not available to the average joe. Examples currently in the news: Kardashians, Trump, Elon, etc. If you think they got that way providing goods or services and not having the benefit of generational wealth, then you're exactly like the rest of the ignorant ppl that think they are God's gift to humanity.

I'll never get the thirst some of you have to bootlick the wealthiest members of society. Especially while you probably dont have good healthcare that wont bankrupt you if you have a serious accident or illness.

It's sad and pathetic, and definitely not a good look. Oh, and they're not gonna fuck you for standing for them. In fact most everyone of them would quite literally piss and shit on you and think nothing of it if they could make some more money from doing so.

[Mugen]

Mugen: "Why, yes, I'd turn down a couple million dollars for doing nothing. Yes, I would."

Can't wait for that 2023 P&L Banner to go up tbh :lol

[spurraider21]

Wut? would much rather have Dieng.

I increasingly don't get this team's moves.
1) dieng is completely inconsequential to a team that is fighting for a high lottery pick
2) they waived vonleh anyway. this was not a matter of choosing vonleh over dieng

only thing this accomplished was our owner makes a little bit of cash. the spurs did not benefit one iota from this

[spurraider21]

Can't wait for that 2023 P&L Banner to go up tbh :lol
:lmao

[offset formation]

1) dieng is completely inconsequential to a team that is fighting for a high lottery pick
2) they waived vonleh anyway. this was not a matter of choosing vonleh over dieng

only thing this accomplished was our owner makes a little bit of cash. the spurs did not benefit one iota from this

understood. would still rather have dieng because he's a good locker room presence and generally well-liked vet. I understand he's not a player that's gonna make much of a difference in our overall win total but in the absence of an actual upgrade this is a net negative move for everyone except the Owner's pocketbook.

Do. not. like.

[TD 21]

Wut? would much rather have Dieng.

I increasingly don't get this team's moves.

I get the feeling he'll retire sooner than later and re-join the Spurs in some capacity.

[buttsR4rebounding]

lol, wut?

no, "most" of them started off wealthy or with advantages not available to the average joe. Examples currently in the news: Kardashians, Trump, Elon, etc. If you think they got that way providing goods or services and not having the benefit of generational wealth, then you're exactly like the rest of the ignorant ppl that think they are God's gift to humanity.

I'll never get the thirst some of you have to bootlick the wealthiest members of society. Especially while you probably dont have good healthcare that wont bankrupt you if you have a serious accident or illness.

It's sad and pathetic, and definitely not a good look. Oh, and they're not gonna fuck you for standing for them. In fact most everyone of them would quite literally piss and shit on you and think nothing of it if they could make some more money from doing so.

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

[spurraider21]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.
if trump stuck his entire inheritance into the S&P index fund and literally did nothing his whole life, he'd have made more money than he has today

the greatest predictor of future success is not ability, its wealth. doesnt mean every rich person came from money. just playing the odds

[DPG21920]

He was non-guaranteed.

Ya I missed that at first glance - makes sense now.

[buttsR4rebounding]

if trump stuck his entire inheritance into the S&P index fund and literally did nothing his whole life, he'd have made more money than he has today

the greatest predictor of future success is not ability, its wealth. doesnt mean every rich person came from money. just playing the odds

That simply doesn’t jive with the facts. The greatest predictor of wealth accumulation is the ability to delay gratification. Unfortunately the standard lifestyle choices are to live beyond one’s means. For example if a 25 year old puts $25 a month into an S&P index fund for 10 years , then increases that to $50/month for 10 years, then at age 45 starts putting $100/month in and then at 55 increases that to $200/month over the last 40 years his account would be worth over $2,000,000. Unfortunately our schools do a very poor job of teaching wealth accumulation.

[spurraider21]

That simply doesn’t jive with the facts. The greatest predictor of wealth accumulation is the ability to delay gratification. Unfortunately the standard lifestyle choices are to live beyond one’s means. For example if a 25 year old puts $25 a month into an S&P index fund for 10 years , then increases that to $50/month for 10 years, then at age 45 starts putting $100/month in and then at 55 increases that to $200/month over the last 40 years his account would be worth over $2,000,000. Unfortunately our schools do a very poor job of teaching wealth accumulation.
ability to delay gratification is a great trait. but for better or worse "stickiness at the ends" is a known, quantifiable phenomenon. if you break wealth into quartiles, about 2/3 of people raised in the bottom quartile end up in the bottom half, and about 2/3 of people raised in the top quartile end up in the top half

about 50% end up with more wealth than their parents. about 50% end up with less

plenty of research into the subject, here's the first that pops up

https://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedfiles/pcs_assets/2012/pursuingamericandreampdf.pdf

this doesnt mean that people cant optimize decisions and improve outcomes. they certainly can. its not just the biggest predictor of wealth

[exstatic]

That simply doesn’t jive with the facts. The greatest predictor of wealth accumulation is the ability to delay gratification. Unfortunately the standard lifestyle choices are to live beyond one’s means. For example if a 25 year old puts $25 a month into an S&P index fund for 10 years , then increases that to $50/month for 10 years, then at age 45 starts putting $100/month in and then at 55 increases that to $200/month over the last 40 years his account would be worth over $2,000,000. Unfortunately our schools do a very poor job of teaching wealth accumulation.yes, Donald Trump is the king of delayed gratification.

[CGD]

Come on Philly! Shed tax liability by sending us that CHA SRP and Thyblles contract

[scott]

Only on ST can a thread on an otherwise meaningless trade end up in a political argument.

[mo7888]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

I think you two need to define what level of net worth equates to being 'rich'. It's to broad in this discussion...

[JPB]

Only on ST can a thread on an otherwise meaningless trade end up in a political argument.

...and a political forum end up as a virtual asylum.

[exstatic]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

As of like 2010, the standard of being wealthy or rich was $5M. That was close to 13 years ago. I’m sure it’s gone up.

[The Truth #6]

Adios Dieng. I always thought he was a good dude. Good shooter. Calming presence. The churn continues.

[ace3g]

Bobby Marks math


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1590780999817957382/_YsI2teE_normal.jpg
Bobby Marks BobbyMarks42
(https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42)2m (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1611194717626146816)
Boston sent San Antonio $1.5M as part of the Noah Vonleh trade. Here’s how much Boston saved and the Spurs netted.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlwdDmJXoAUpRYl?format=jpg&name=large

[CGD]

Bobby Marks math


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1590780999817957382/_YsI2teE_normal.jpg
Bobby Marks BobbyMarks42
(https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42)2m (https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1611194717626146816)
Boston sent San Antonio $1.5M as part of the Noah Vonleh trade. Here’s how much Boston saved and the Spurs netted.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlwdDmJXoAUpRYl?format=jpg&name=large

So basically we bought good will

[offset formation]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

Source on that 90% claim...lol.

Come on man, the Ivy League schools aren't filled with the legacy children and the relatives of prior graduates and donors for nothing.... Which of course then sets those folks up with high-paying cush jobs for life. And so on and so forth. You simply do not get how privilege and wealth works.

Trump had great policies to lift everyone's "standard of living?" Which ones? How? You understand the stock market isn't raising everyone's standard of living?

For the official record, Trump signed the largest tax cut in US history, which broke a record previous set by W Bush that benefitted the wealthiest Americans by head and shoulders. 90% of the benefit went to the top 10% of tax payers. The wealth gap grew and the average salary yet further increased between a CEO and their employees. Healthcare costs continued to rise.

Again, you guys simply do not get why this happens over and over but are the ones directly responsible for it continuing to happen.

You understand that the American middle class was largely created when the top end marginal tax rate was over 70%? That's how you raise the standard of living. Well that and not having a trillion dollar defense budget that is akin to the next 16 militaries on the planet, combined.

You want a different standard of living. Wake the fuck up and vote accordingly.

[Robz4000]

:lol Spurs have been trying to net "good will" for years now and all its gotten them is bent over a barrel

[exstatic]

:lol Spurs have been trying to net "good will" for years now and all its gotten them is bent over a barrel

Uh, actually that White trade from last year was pretty flush. Atlanta, same. Toronto trade last year didn’t exactly suck, either. Got a first and a second, plus the player fed into the Toronto trade from Chicago for an unrestricted free agent.

[K...]

:lol Spurs have been trying to net "good will" for years now and all its gotten them is bent over a barrel

if you believe that you also believe that brian wright is a great manager, for despite the bias against the spurs, he still got trades for Derozan, murray, white, and more.

[Mr. Body]

:lol Spurs have been trying to net "good will" for years now and all its gotten them is bent over a barrel

King of shitty takes right here.

[Mr. Body]

Source on that 90% claim...lol.

Come on man, the Ivy League schools aren't filled with the legacy children and the relatives of prior graduates and donors for nothing.... Which of course then sets those folks up with high-paying cush jobs for life. And so on and so forth. You simply do not get how privilege and wealth works.

Trump had great policies to lift everyone's "standard of living?" Which ones? How? You understand the stock market isn't raising everyone's standard of living?

For the official record, Trump signed the largest tax cut in US history, which broke a record previous set by W Bush that benefitted the wealthiest Americans by head and shoulders. 90% of the benefit went to the top 10% of tax payers. The wealth gap grew and the average salary yet further increased between a CEO and their employees. Healthcare costs continued to rise.

Again, you guys simply do not get why this happens over and over but are the ones directly responsible for it continuing to happen.

You understand that the American middle class was largely created when the top end marginal tax rate was over 70%? That's how you raise the standard of living. Well that and not having a trillion dollar defense budget that is akin to the next 16 militaries on the planet, combined.

You want a different standard of living. Wake the fuck up and vote accordingly.

I believe the tax cuts made things worse for most Americans. It dipped things for a year or two but then raised taxes for most of us after the election. So calling them tax cuts isn't really appropriate.

Most of our outrageous debt is because of Republicans spending like crazy, failing to defend us on 9/11 and starting extremely expensive wars because of it, and giving more and more money to their donors through giveaways and cutting the taxes of the rich every chance they get.

[Robz4000]

Uh, actually that White trade from last year was pretty flush. Atlanta, same. Toronto trade last year didn’t exactly suck, either. Got a first and a second, plus the player fed into the Toronto trade from Chicago for an unrestricted free agent.


if you believe that you also believe that brian wright is a great manager, for despite the bias against the spurs, he still got trades for Derozan, murray, white, and more.

Never said the trades were shit, just that they've done plenty of favors for other teams over the years only for nothing to come of it.

[TDMVPDPOY]

that lux tax savings for boston wouldve been shared among the teams below the cap, spurs rather get the bigger piece of the pie with the trade then waiting for the portion of lux tax revenue sharing...

[Mr. Body]

Never said the trades were shit, just that they've done plenty of favors for other teams over the years only for nothing to come of it.

They literally got money for this.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

WE STaaaaaaaaCCCCKEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[spurraider21]

Never said the trades were shit, just that they've done plenty of favors for other teams over the years only for nothing to come of it.
my favorite was when they voluntarily decide to guarantee aldridge's remaining salary and then had to just waive him later :lmao

[Robz4000]

my favorite was when they voluntarily decide to guarantee aldridge's remaining salary and then had to just waive him later :lmao

:lol don't forget when they traded a second round pick for the privilege of giving Indy a $10mil TE

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lol don't forget when they traded a second round pick for the privilege of giving Indy a $10mil TE

The McDermott trade? They didn't trade a 2nd, they effectively received a 2nd round pick swap in 2026 -a small asset for a small TE ($7 mil), which has meanwhile expired unused like the vast majority of TEs.

[Robz4000]

The McDermott trade? They didn't trade a 2nd, they effectively received a 2nd round pick swap in 2026 -a small asset for a small TE ($7 mil), which has meanwhile expired unused like the vast majority of TEs.

1424370012404473862

Just because they didn't use it didn't mean the Spurs didn't do them a favor.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Come on man, surely there should be a more than surface level understanding of how NBA trades work on a forum that's supposed to not be for casuals.

Both SA and Indiana received fake 2nds round picks in the trade - top 55 protected 2023 2nds that won't convey - basically you can scratch that part of the trade. Spurs won't convey any pick to Indiana in this trade.

What the Spurs actually get is a rather complicated 2026 2nd round pick swap in order to give Indy that TE. Basically from the Spurs perspective there were two options - sign McDermott right away or sign and trade for him and receive that minor asset. This should actually be an example of good FO work.

[Robz4000]

Come on man, surely there should be a more than surface level understanding of how NBA trades work on a forum that's supposed to not be for casuals.

Both SA and Indiana received fake 2nds round picks in the trade - top 55 protected 2023 2nds that won't convey - basically you can scratch that part of the trade. Spurs won't convey any pick to Indiana in this trade.

What the Spurs actually get is a rather complicated 2026 2nd round pick swap in order to give Indy that TE. Basically from the Spurs perspective there were two options - sign McDermott right away or sign and trade for him and receive that minor asset. This should actually be an example of good FO work.

Missed the part on the protections tbh.

[mo7888]

Source on that 90% claim...lol.

Come on man, the Ivy League schools aren't filled with the legacy children and the relatives of prior graduates and donors for nothing.... Which of course then sets those folks up with high-paying cush jobs for life. And so on and so forth. You simply do not get how privilege and wealth works.

Trump had great policies to lift everyone's "standard of living?" Which ones? How? You understand the stock market isn't raising everyone's standard of living?

For the official record, Trump signed the largest tax cut in US history, which broke a record previous set by W Bush that benefitted the wealthiest Americans by head and shoulders. 90% of the benefit went to the top 10% of tax payers. The wealth gap grew and the average salary yet further increased between a CEO and their employees. Healthcare costs continued to rise.

Again, you guys simply do not get why this happens over and over but are the ones directly responsible for it continuing to happen.

You understand that the American middle class was largely created when the top end marginal tax rate was over 70%? That's how you raise the standard of living. Well that and not having a trillion dollar defense budget that is akin to the next 16 militaries on the planet, combined.

You want a different standard of living. Wake the fuck up and vote accordingly.

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2871-how-most-millionaires-got-rich.html

88% of millionaires are self made so there's the source but, it really comes down to what definition you're using to describe 'rich'. Is it millionaire? Billionaire? Etc... when you get in to the ultra rich the number of self made 'rich' falls considerably...

[baseline bum]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

Great policies :lmao

Only thing Trump accomplished was blowing a $2+ trillion hole in the deficit with his corporate tax cut so that corporations could blow all that money on stock buybacks.

[Rocalcio]

I’m sad Dieng is gone, he was a good veteran alongside the kids.

[Mr. Body]

https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/2871-how-most-millionaires-got-rich.html

88% of millionaires are self made so there's the source but, it really comes down to what definition you're using to describe 'rich'. Is it millionaire? Billionaire? Etc... when you get in to the ultra rich the number of self made 'rich' falls considerably...

One of those studies was by 'Wealth-X', which is just hilarious.

The other admits what I suspected, that most millionaires are that way through investment, ie the stock market, ie agent self-made at all, but are that way because of the ludicrous free money period where policies deliberately caused unsustainable and socially irresponsible rise in general stock prices.

[Mr. Body]

Great policies :lmao

Only thing Trump accomplished was blowing a $2+ trillion hole in the deficit with his corporate tax cut so that corporations could blow all that money on stock buybacks.

Yeah, taxpayers just gave away huge amounts of our money for executive stock packages and to make a very small number of suoerinvestors absurdly rich. Our government and its right wing policies are unbelievably corrupt.

[Rocalcio]

Only on ST can a thread on an otherwise meaningless trade end up in a political argument.

Yup, that escalated quickly…

[CGD]

Another what to look at this move:

~$6M in tax savings = ~$500k net cash

[John B]

I’m sad Dieng is gone, he was a good veteran alongside the kids.

Collins playing well made Dieng dispensable, plus Bassey would need whatever minutes left. Dieng would get picked still. But he’s been terrible closing in.

[offset formation]

Yup, that escalated quickly…

Bullshit claims deserve to be called out regardless of the venue.

[offset formation]

Great policies :lmao

Only thing Trump accomplished was blowing a $2+ trillion hole in the deficit with his corporate tax cut so that corporations could blow all that money on stock buybacks.

It's what they do every damn time. Precisely why the debt rises quicker during their time in office.

Trickle down has been disproven going on 40+ yrs on multiple fronts including, most importantly, wealth disparity.

[mo7888]

One of those studies was by 'Wealth-X', which is just hilarious.

The other admits what I suspected, that most millionaires are that way through investment, ie the stock market, ie agent self-made at all, but are that way because of the ludicrous free money period where policies deliberately caused unsustainable and socially irresponsible rise in general stock prices.

Investment doesn't necessarily mean the 'stock market' though, most millionaires I know (self included) made it though either starting a small business or through real estate investments. I'm not talking about the ultra rich billionaire types.

[CGD]

Investment doesn't necessarily mean the 'stock market' though, most millionaires I know (self included) made it though either starting a small business or through real estate investments. I'm not talking about the ultra rich billionaire types.

That’s right. In both examples you mention the secret sauce is leverage. Can you borrow cheaply enough, pay it back, and make money off the risk?

Most of us only experience that through homeownership, but it’s the same general idea repeated many times.

[mo7888]

That’s right. In both examples you mention the secret sauce is leverage. Can you borrow cheaply enough, pay it back, and make money off the risk?

Most of us only experience that through homeownership, but it’s the same general idea repeated many times.

Exactly

[Mr. Body]

Investment doesn't necessarily mean the 'stock market' though, most millionaires I know (self included) made it though either starting a small business or through real estate investments. I'm not talking about the ultra rich billionaire types.

Starting a business is not what they mean by investment. Real estate... sure, but those gains have been mostly with multi-nationals. Most of the millionaire growth has been paper assets.

[slick'81]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3oz8xZGfHArTvh99YI/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9523d7ac660b465f9aa83633c1d51a1 0a74a0d8e14d&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g
WE STaaaaaaaaCCCCKEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/blob:https://www.spurstalk.com/b75ff518-8f0c-4988-adf9-c5361eaa6db0

[mo7888]

Starting a business is not what they mean by investment. Real estate... sure, but those gains have been mostly with multi-nationals. Most of the millionaire growth has been paper assets.

No...that's not right... when a person starts a small business they usually invest everything into it..their money, their heart, and their soul. That's a real investment. I'm more of a real estate guy. I know many people who are millionaires that became that way through real estate investing. As for multinationals, you have guys like Blackrock who've bought untold billions in real estate recently and they intend to profit on that investment but, alot of people bought those same properties earlier and profited themselves by selling to Blackrock and then they invest those monies in other assets.

I see two things that has come from this discussion..1) the ignorance from people who don't realize what wealth is or how it's created and 2) an underlying gripe about the system (tax and regulatory) that seems unfair to them. The first part I don't sympathize with at all but the 2nd I empathize with greatly. Rules are established to favor the ultra wealthy but, regular people who are smart and hard working enough can find niches in that same system to game it for their own personal gain. Should it be that way? No, it shouldn't ..the playing field should be level for everyone but it's not and it's not going to change with Socialist Democrats and Populist/status quo Republicans in charge. I've personally found the best way to operate is to play their system and win while advocating for change from that very system.

To each his own though...

[DPG21920]

:lol Spurs have been trying to net "good will" for years now and all its gotten them is bent over a barrel

True..but SA has now done SEVERAL trades with BOS and I would say they have all worked in SA favor…

[mo7888]

True..but SA has now done SEVERAL trades with BOS and I would say they have all worked in SA favor…

Yup...and building up good will doesn't work against you in any scenario...

[DPG21920]

I think it’s clear what was going on…it was the SA side some why trades were not happening. Even when it made sense to us and everyone around the league SA was a massive outlier in trades.

It was not just other teams playing hardball with SA, it was SA being reluctant to do trading. That is the one thing I am most optimistic with regards to Wright; he has done more wheeling and dealing than RC ever did and seems very solid in his ability to get deals done.

It’s why I am expecting 1-2 more deals for SA this deadline.

[heyheymymy]

Ahh, blissful ignorance. There are over 3 million millionaires in the US. Over 90% of those got there doing exactly what I said. Most wealth has a 3 generation cycle. It is very unusual for wealth continue generation after generation. It gets divided among the children then grandchildren and it’s gone. For the record I think Trump is an asshole (although he had great policies to help lift everyone’s standard of living) and I am at a loss trying to understand people’s fascination with the Kardashians.

I disagree. Trump did not have great policies that lifted everyone up.

Tax cuts and jobs act 2018 trump borrowed debt to give a tax break to people who were already rich.

How about trumps 2020 cares act which siphoned tax money to oil companies and reactivated NOL carry backs while average Americans struggled with the pandemic.

[bluebellmaniac]

So basically we bought good will

Basically. Which is a really good thing for greasing the wheels for something you need later on.

[spurraider21]

I think it’s clear what was going on…it was the SA side some why trades were not happening. Even when it made sense to us and everyone around the league SA was a massive outlier in trades.

It was not just other teams playing hardball with SA, it was SA being reluctant to do trading. That is the one thing I am most optimistic with regards to Wright; he has done more wheeling and dealing than RC ever did and seems very solid in his ability to get deals done.

It’s why I am expecting 1-2 more deals for SA this deadline.
lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying "shit, if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

[exstatic]

lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying "shit, if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.

[scott]

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.

Correct all around, though I'm sure there are some very clear cut profitability objectives in place for Spurs management - so this move wisely aligns with those objectives.

I'm more amazed at the 6pages of thought that have gone into this trade... which may be more than the Celtics or Spurs put into this meaningless trade :lol

[spurraider21]

We don’t have an owner, we have a consortium, and they are smart enough to keep their hands off, for the most part.
ah yes thats the important point here

i should have said "ownership" instead of "the owner"

ethered

[DPG21920]

lol this wasnt a sign of wright being active. just the opposite. this was the owner saying "shit, if you're not going to make any moves to use the cap space, i'm just going to make some cash off of it"

I wasn’t takin about this deal. It was in reference to the spurs doing favors point and it not paying off for them. Was saying it was mostly their own doing I believe and it’s a fact Wright is making trades at a higher frequency than RC was. Lots of that is to do with timing & status of team but he’s doing it. He’s not ignoring trades and only focusing on draft and limited Fa like we are used to.

[ambchang]

No...that's not right... when a person starts a small business they usually invest everything into it..their money, their heart, and their soul. That's a real investment. I'm more of a real estate guy. I know many people who are millionaires that became that way through real estate investing. As for multinationals, you have guys like Blackrock who've bought untold billions in real estate recently and they intend to profit on that investment but, alot of people bought those same properties earlier and profited themselves by selling to Blackrock and then they invest those monies in other assets.

I see two things that has come from this discussion..1) the ignorance from people who don't realize what wealth is or how it's created and 2) an underlying gripe about the system (tax and regulatory) that seems unfair to them. The first part I don't sympathize with at all but the 2nd I empathize with greatly. Rules are established to favor the ultra wealthy but, regular people who are smart and hard working enough can find niches in that same system to game it for their own personal gain. Should it be that way? No, it shouldn't ..the playing field should be level for everyone but it's not and it's not going to change with Socialist Democrats and Populist/status quo Republicans in charge. I've personally found the best way to operate is to play their system and win while advocating for change from that very system.

To each his own though...

I want someone that money too but how do people get money to invest in the first place?

[mo7888]

I want someone that money too but how do people get money to invest in the first place?

I'm my case after I got out of college I cut my spending to the bone and saved enough for a down-payment on my first property and got a loan from a local bank for the rest.

[ambchang]

I'm my case after I got out of college I cut my spending to the bone and saved enough for a down-payment on my first property and got a loan from a local bank for the rest.

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

[Mr. Body]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

No, most people can't do this, especially with inflation and wages so low. It's the reason why home ownership is extremely low for younger generations. They've been boxed out. Saving money at all is extremely hard for most.

[heyheymymy]

and then you have real estate speculation exploding so even if you can somehow outpace stagnate wages monetized society and increasing cost of living to save up enough for a house you get outbid by hustlers with crazy cash offers $50,000 over asking that you can't compete with.

[ismael-robert]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

[mo7888]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

I didn't have student loans but I did have a Pell grant that covered most of the tuition and I worked in the summers and summers before college saving to get the rest. As for my job, I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in the school of forestry and went into business for myself immediately. I did pretty well and made about 60k my first year. Understand that was 1992-93 so 60k was a pretty good bit back then.

[mo7888]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

That's actually pretty close.... my first real estate purchase was a residential lot and I built a home on it to sell...lot and all back then was around $65k..so the down-payment was about $15k

[JPB]

Correct all around, though I'm sure there are some very clear cut profitability objectives in place for Spurs management - so this move wisely aligns with those objectives.

I'm more amazed at the 6pages of thought that have gone into this trade... which may be more than the Celtics or Spurs put into this meaningless trade :lol

That's how exciting this season is, tbh.

[Joseph Kony]

this thread turned me into a communist

[KingKev]

this thread turned me into a communist

Coach Pop thanks you for the support.

[CGD]

After student loans, family support, rent, you can still save $150k for down payment over a short period of time. Good for you. Must have a great paying job right out of school. Not likely a feasible option for most people though.

Something in the 2000s definitely changed. It explains why mo7888’s experiences and yours can both be right. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the rising cost of higher education — coupled with years of browbeating an entire generation of kids/parents that higher education is the path to the middle class —timed perfectly with the 2008-09 financial crisis isn’t one of the key culprits. It’s less clear to me what explains that very clear shift, but the student loan situation that has followed has definitely altered the live choices of an entire generation of Americans including whether to start families which is a tragedy in my book.

[mo7888]

Something in the 2000s definitely changed. It explains why mo7888’s experiences and yours can both be right. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that the rising cost of higher education — coupled with years of browbeating an entire generation of kids/parents that higher education is the path to the middle class —timed perfectly with the 2008-09 financial crisis isn’t one of the key culprits. It’s less clear to me what explains that very clear shift, but the student loan situation that has followed has definitely altered the live choices of an entire generation of Americans including whether to start families which is a tragedy in my book.

Excellent post

[ambchang]

Why did u jump all the way to a 150k down payment? Maybe he only put 10k down...hey we moved right outside city limits n got a loan with no down payment

$10k down. Where can you get that? 1972? With our real estate laws it’s at least 20% down, anything less there are additional insurances on the mortgage which makes the costs of borrowing even higher. Besides, with anything less than that the term will be some thing significantly longer than 25 years (unless you have a great job and can afford a high monthly payment). Which doesn’t make this much of an investment because there’s little you can leverage from it. $650k for a one bedroom condo is the norm now, after the mortgage there’s still utilities and condo fees. I’m not sure much you guys make.

[ambchang]

I didn't have student loans but I did have a Pell grant that covered most of the tuition and I worked in the summers and summers before college saving to get the rest. As for my job, I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in the school of forestry and went into business for myself immediately. I did pretty well and made about 60k my first year. Understand that was 1992-93 so 60k was a pretty good bit back then.

60k a year is crazy money for a fresh grad in 1992. It’s unlikely for most fresh grads to even get a job paying $60k a year even today. It is also not likely people can get Pell grants. It’s even less likely that people can get paid $60k a year now, even if they have the fortunate financial family support to live at home afterwards (which most people won’t have), to save up for down payment. After taxes and normal living expenses, it would be fortunate to save up $35k a year and that is assuming you’re pretty much leeching off mom and dad and paying nothing in utilities and rent and even minimal groceries. With a condo cost of $600k and a down payment of 20% ($120k), it would take about 4 years to save that up. Once you move out, you have a $480k mortgage. At 5% at 25 years your monthly payment is about $2800 per month, which means you are paying about $34k in mortgage on a $60k salary over 25 years, which leaves you nothing for clothes and groceries and utilities and condo fees after taxes. And this is just the investment property so there is another property somewhere you live in. I’m not sure how you make it work back then, let alone now, granted condos back then were about $150k each which makes the math much easier. So the suggestion for todays kids is to invent a Time Machine

[mo7888]

60k a year is crazy money for a fresh grad in 1992. It’s unlikely for most fresh grads to even get a job paying $60k a year even today. It is also not likely people can get Pell grants. It’s even less likely that people can get paid $60k a year now, even if they have the fortunate financial family support to live at home afterwards (which most people won’t have), to save up for down payment. After taxes and normal living expenses, it would be fortunate to save up $35k a year and that is assuming you’re pretty much leeching off mom and dad and paying nothing in utilities and rent and even minimal groceries. With a condo cost of $600k and a down payment of 20% ($120k), it would take about 4 years to save that up. Once you move out, you have a $480k mortgage. At 5% at 25 years your monthly payment is about $2800 per month, which means you are paying about $34k in mortgage on a $60k salary over 25 years, which leaves you nothing for clothes and groceries and utilities and condo fees after taxes. And this is just the investment property so there is another property somewhere you live in. I’m not sure how you make it work back then, let alone now, granted condos back then were about $150k each which makes the math much easier. So the suggestion for todays kids is to invent a Time Machine

I hear where you're coming from on this but it sounds like you're looking at buying something in your area that you might want to live in. That's not what my focus was. I was looking strictly for things I could invest in to increase my net worth. If I were starting from scratch today I wouldn't be looking at a $600k property to start with. I'd focus on eliminating my bad debt (and all debt isn't bad despite what some pundits say) and focus on building up my cash reserves. I'd probably park it somewhere safe with a steady return (RYLD stock symbol or something similar for instance..but keep it diversified) so I can build on my cash while adding to my reserves. Then I'd look for properties I could buy with cash flow attached. That could be residential or small commercial. I'd spend time between now and when my reserves were built up to educate myself on different markets around the country. There are places where you can get properties much less than those around you and honestly much less than those around where I live now. If you're smart and determined you can build generational wealth even with some of the things stacked against you from a government/ regulatory point of view.

Remember a couple things here (and understand I'm not debating with you I'm just trying to impart some of my history and what I've done so hopefully you can find something in there that gives you confidence and helps you going forward...because this is not my normal message board topic) 1) All things are relative, so even though prices are inflated today so are rents. So there's a balance between price and cash flow you need to focus on. Keep that in your mind at all times. 2) once you break the barrier of entrance and get in you'll grow from there. What seems like a large investment now will seem small in 10 years as you grow. 3) Focus on and find enjoyment in the 'deal' not the money. If you just want money and don't enjoy the deal you'll stop to soon and won't reach your potential. Educate yourself and find pleasure in the 'deal'. 4) Remember that a deal requires two to tango and its only a good deal if everyone walks away from the table with something they feel good about. Why? Because you're gonna want to do future deals with that person and you'll get better ones if they feel good about working with you.

I've done this and grown for 30 years now (52 years old). I've expanded from residential real estate to commercial and rural real estate (with a focus on timber holdings), then I went into Wetland Banks (you can Google what they are if you aren't familiar) and even a few intellectual properties, but it all started with that first house I borrowed about $65k for and sold for about $80k. I hope you (and anyone else who reads this) can have the right attitude and pull something from my experiences to improve your own financial standing.

Don't dwell on the barriers to entry....focus on the opportunity and solutions to any issues you face personally.

I wish you much luck going forward...

[ambchang]

I hear where you're coming from on this but it sounds like you're looking at buying something in your area that you might want to live in. That's not what my focus was. I was looking strictly for things I could invest in to increase my net worth. If I were starting from scratch today I wouldn't be looking at a $600k property to start with. I'd focus on eliminating my bad debt (and all debt isn't bad despite what some pundits say) and focus on building up my cash reserves. I'd probably park it somewhere safe with a steady return (RYLD stock symbol or something similar for instance..but keep it diversified) so I can build on my cash while adding to my reserves. Then I'd look for properties I could buy with cash flow attached. That could be residential or small commercial. I'd spend time between now and when my reserves were built up to educate myself on different markets around the country. There are places where you can get properties much less than those around you and honestly much less than those around where I live now. If you're smart and determined you can build generational wealth even with some of the things stacked against you from a government/ regulatory point of view.

Remember a couple things here (and understand I'm not debating with you I'm just trying to impart some of my history and what I've done so hopefully you can find something in there that gives you confidence and helps you going forward...because this is not my normal message board topic) 1) All things are relative, so even though prices are inflated today so are rents. So there's a balance between price and cash flow you need to focus on. Keep that in your mind at all times. 2) once you break the barrier of entrance and get in you'll grow from there. What seems like a large investment now will seem small in 10 years as you grow. 3) Focus on and find enjoyment in the 'deal' not the money. If you just want money and don't enjoy the deal you'll stop to soon and won't reach your potential. Educate yourself and find pleasure in the 'deal'. 4) Remember that a deal requires two to tango and its only a good deal if everyone walks away from the table with something they feel good about. Why? Because you're gonna want to do future deals with that person and you'll get better ones if they feel good about working with you.

I've done this and grown for 30 years now (52 years old). I've expanded from residential real estate to commercial and rural real estate (with a focus on timber holdings), then I went into Wetland Banks (you can Google what they are if you aren't familiar) and even a few intellectual properties, but it all started with that first house I borrowed about $65k for and sold for about $80k. I hope you (and anyone else who reads this) can have the right attitude and pull something from my experiences to improve your own financial standing.

Don't dwell on the barriers to entry....focus on the opportunity and solutions to any issues you face personally.

I wish you much luck going forward...

Thanks for the advice but I think we are coming from this very differently. My point is that to invest you need a base principle that is worth investing in the first place that can bring a healthy return. Even having something with a healthy return of 10% a year, you would likely require $50k or so in disposal income to have any type of meaningful returns to increase networth. For a generation where even getting a basic job to pay for day to day expenses is a challenge this isn’t something available for most people.

[mo7888]

Looks like we are bringing back Dieng on a 10 day contract

Wow

Honestly, I didn't think that was allowable under the rules..

[KingKev]

Lol I guess with the injury to Jak. He is probs still in town doing nothing. Might as well make another 50k

[CGD]

Lol I guess with the injury to Jak. He is probs still in town doing nothing. Might as well make another 50k

More like $150k. Not a bad deal considering he also got his full salary too.

[cjw]

Looks like we are bringing back Dieng on a 10 day contract

Wow

Honestly, I didn't think that was allowable under the rules..

You’re probably thinking of rule where an acquiring team can’t waive a player only to be resigned by original team. I think that restriction is a year.

You can waive / resign anyone on your roster as it stands.

Dumpint Dieng was done purely to facilitate the trade.

[Mr. Body]

Kind of figured Dieng would stick around. Apparently a good locker room guy and the bosses like him a lot.

[talkspurs]

Looks like we are bringing back Dieng on a 10 day contract

Wow

Honestly, I didn't think that was allowable under the rules..

I think you only cant bring him back if you traded him and then released him. Since we waived him before the trade and just sent Boston back a 2nd rd pick he was free to sign with whoever he wanted to. I think we did the same thing with jordan hall or alize johnson this year.

[talkspurs]

60k a year is crazy money for a fresh grad in 1992. It’s unlikely for most fresh grads to even get a job paying $60k a year even today. It is also not likely people can get Pell grants. It’s even less likely that people can get paid $60k a year now, even if they have the fortunate financial family support to live at home afterwards (which most people won’t have), to save up for down payment. After taxes and normal living expenses, it would be fortunate to save up $35k a year and that is assuming you’re pretty much leeching off mom and dad and paying nothing in utilities and rent and even minimal groceries. With a condo cost of $600k and a down payment of 20% ($120k), it would take about 4 years to save that up. Once you move out, you have a $480k mortgage. At 5% at 25 years your monthly payment is about $2800 per month, which means you are paying about $34k in mortgage on a $60k salary over 25 years, which leaves you nothing for clothes and groceries and utilities and condo fees after taxes. And this is just the investment property so there is another property somewhere you live in. I’m not sure how you make it work back then, let alone now, granted condos back then were about $150k each which makes the math much easier. So the suggestion for todays kids is to invent a Time Machine

A lot of people get Pell grants. I am guessing by the numbers you are throwing out you do not live in San Antonio. So I will give my story. Went to college worked at Jims and Sonic to pay for most of my college. No Pell grants had one loan and saw the orignation fees charged on it and decided not to do that anymore. Went to community college and Jims (restaurant) would pay 500 towards each semester if I got good grades. (a lot of places do tuition reimbursement you just have to ask). Moved to San Angelo and worked at sonic till I graduated in 2008. did not make much above minumum wage still but continued to live cheaply. very little AC ($40 electric bills in Texas during summer was my highest). Moved back to San Antonio got a job that paid 34 k a year. Bought a house in 2013 at bottom of market for 71500. I think I was makeing about 38 or so a year at this time. still keep my cost low but houses still in SA you can get a decent one for 200k which even at 20% down in 40k not the 150k you talk about. You can put a lot less down then that.

As for jobs paying 60K. look at being a teacher they pay 55k first year out of school other then that your looking a a few jobs that a going to get you the 60k with a bachelors out of college.

As far as taxes are concerned. I dont like all the write offs it should be a flat tax, you make this much this is what you pay. get rid of deductions exceptions. this is what rich people use to make it look like they make nothing.

[slick'81]

Dieng lives!!!

[exstatic]

A lot of people get Pell grants. I am guessing by the numbers you are throwing out you do not live in San Antonio. So I will give my story. Went to college worked at Jims and Sonic to pay for most of my college. No Pell grants had one loan and saw the orignation fees charged on it and decided not to do that anymore. Went to community college and Jims (restaurant) would pay 500 towards each semester if I got good grades. (a lot of places do tuition reimbursement you just have to ask). Moved to San Angelo and worked at sonic till I graduated in 2008. did not make much above minumum wage still but continued to live cheaply. very little AC ($40 electric bills in Texas during summer was my highest). Moved back to San Antonio got a job that paid 34 k a year. Bought a house in 2013 at bottom of market for 71500. I think I was makeing about 38 or so a year at this time. still keep my cost low but houses still in SA you can get a decent one for 200k which even at 20% down in 40k not the 150k you talk about. You can put a lot less down then that.

As for jobs paying 60K. look at being a teacher they pay 55k first year out of school other then that your looking a a few jobs that a going to get you the 60k with a bachelors out of college.

As far as taxes are concerned. I dont like all the write offs it should be a flat tax, you make this much this is what you pay. get rid of deductions exceptions. this is what rich people use to make it look like they make nothing.

His numbers were based in the early 90s. That kind of money then would need to be doubled to match todays dollar value, so, $120K starting salary right out of school. He also said that Pells covered most of his tuition. That would never happen today either.

[JPB]

The real estate thread.

[slick'81]

I've learned soo much about financial investing :downspin:

[heyheymymy]

Deing is the risen messiah back for the 3rd coming

[talkspurs]

His numbers were based in the early 90s. That kind of money then would need to be doubled to match todays dollar value, so, $120K starting salary right out of school. He also said that Pells covered most of his tuition. That would never happen today either.

I was talking about ambchang. He never mentioned where he was getting the 150k down payment. you could actually get an ok house in SA for that amount. The Pell grant would still fully cover tuition at a community college and they would get a refund. Also lots of state schools have it to where if you get the pell grant you have have your tuition covered. so why Pell may not cover the tuition, it could still be covered for the student.

[spurraider21]

So we lose some cap space in exchange for owners making pocket change

[ambchang]

A lot of people get Pell grants. I am guessing by the numbers you are throwing out you do not live in San Antonio. So I will give my story. Went to college worked at Jims and Sonic to pay for most of my college. No Pell grants had one loan and saw the orignation fees charged on it and decided not to do that anymore. Went to community college and Jims (restaurant) would pay 500 towards each semester if I got good grades. (a lot of places do tuition reimbursement you just have to ask). Moved to San Angelo and worked at sonic till I graduated in 2008. did not make much above minumum wage still but continued to live cheaply. very little AC ($40 electric bills in Texas during summer was my highest). Moved back to San Antonio got a job that paid 34 k a year. Bought a house in 2013 at bottom of market for 71500. I think I was makeing about 38 or so a year at this time. still keep my cost low but houses still in SA you can get a decent one for 200k which even at 20% down in 40k not the 150k you talk about. You can put a lot less down then that.

As for jobs paying 60K. look at being a teacher they pay 55k first year out of school other then that your looking a a few jobs that a going to get you the 60k with a bachelors out of college.

As far as taxes are concerned. I dont like all the write offs it should be a flat tax, you make this much this is what you pay. get rid of deductions exceptions. this is what rich people use to make it look like they make nothing.

Not San Antonian. Not close. Where I’m at most people make about $55k out of school, a one bedroom anywhere close to downtown or on a subway line is about $500k. Minimum. You can expect a single garage detached home to be at least $1m in any decent area, two car garage detached would be $1.2m on up. Forget investment, most people live paycheck to paycheck.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I'm my case after I got out of college I cut my spending to the bone and saved enough for a down-payment on my first property and got a loan from a local bank for the rest.

This was my point: delayed gratification. My wife and I set a goal and set aside 15% of our income into savings; saved up and bought some RE, then eventually a small assisted living facility. I now run 4 small businesses and employ 27 people. Getting ready to buy a Hospice company with my partners. But it all starts with living within your means.

[ambchang]

I was talking about ambchang. He never mentioned where he was getting the 150k down payment. you could actually get an ok house in SA for that amount. The Pell grant would still fully cover tuition at a community college and they would get a refund. Also lots of state schools have it to where if you get the pell grant you have have your tuition covered. so why Pell may not cover the tuition, it could still be covered for the student.

I actually did. As housing is about $600k for a one bedroom condo around my parts I used 25%. This is, I thought, rather common in most large American cities like NY, LA, Chicago. Toronto and Vancouver. But if the numbers used are say$150k for the entire house, I can see how people can save up and get their own place but not sure what the returns would be to get, say $5m in assets over a reasonable time.

[talkspurs]

I actually did. As housing is about $600k for a one bedroom condo around my parts I used 25%. This is, I thought, rather common in most large American cities like NY, LA, Chicago. Toronto and Vancouver. But if the numbers used are say$150k for the entire house, I can see how people can save up and get their own place but not sure what the returns would be to get, say $5m in assets over a reasonable time.

So what city do you live in? I looked at Chicago and they looked like they had decent houses for 200k. these were 3/2. Isaw lots in the 59k range but they needed rehab I dont know the city so cant sy what part of town these are in. I also looked at NY and saw some 1 bedroom apt/ condo for 200 k. So yes you can still find some somewhat affordable it just depends on what you are willing to sacrifice.

[ambchang]

So what city do you live in? I looked at Chicago and they looked like they had decent houses for 200k. these were 3/2. Isaw lots in the 59k range but they needed rehab I dont know the city so cant sy what part of town these are in. I also looked at NY and saw some 1 bedroom apt/ condo for 200 k. So yes you can still find some somewhat affordable it just depends on what you are willing to sacrifice.

Toronto. Things used to be relatively affordable but then it went crazy in the last 15 years or so. I’m glad I got on the last train so to speak. I doubt I can afford my own house in todays market and I make decent money by most standards (not crazy money but definitely above those median incomes published by the government. But it is impossible for me to invest in any real estate around here. The pricing crashed due to mortgage rate increases over the last year but they are still crazy expensive.

[The Truth #6]

Real estate is the most typical way someone becomes a millionaire I would think. It’s rare, but every big city has the former stripper who left the pole, got a real estate license, and started acquiring and flipping properties along the way. The economy is definitely based around real estate and the ebb and flow of interest rates. Making houses is about the only thing that is Made in America anymore, except weapons. Anyway. Interesting discussion.