Sy Hersh: How America Took Out The Nord Stream Pipeline

[Winehole23]

Anytime a journalist relies on secret sources (especially uncorroborated ones -- Sy Hersh is no longer subject to editorial/institutional control) verification is a problem. The strong conclusory language of the article demands strong evidence, which is lacking here.

That said, the inferences drawn against the USA and Norway are plausible. Who had the most to gain strategically from wrecking the pipelines? Who has materially benefited in the aftermath?


Last June, the Navy divers, operating under the cover of a widely publicized mid-summer NATO exercise known as BALTOPS 22 (https://www.navy.mil/Press-Office/News-Stories/Article/3066830/baltops-22-the-premier-baltic-sea-maritime-exercise-concludes-in-kiel/), planted the remotely triggered explosives that, three months later, destroyed three of the four Nord Stream pipelines, according to a source with direct knowledge of the operational planning.https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

[Brazil]

cannot say I would be surprised

[pgardn]

Shallow water, currents manageable.
Lets go take a look.

What team of international divers can "we" get together for evidence of C4 explosion.
If Sy is wrong he has to pay for it. If correct, hero going on tour giving talks about more American fiddling.

Absolutely plausible.
And incredibly bold and risky maneuver while Western cooperation is necessary for trust while we have a war in Europe.

[Spurs Homer]

Makes zero fucking sense-

Ill wait for proof…

[ChumpDumper]

Hersh has gotten more gullible chasing the big story these days. Can't trust only him anymore.

[Spurs Homer]

Hersh has gotten more gullible chasing the big story these days. Can't trust only him anymore.

my thoughts also…

i see he reported and was correct on some important scandals…

but those seem to be 50-60 years ago…

nothing would shock me but it just completely makes zero sense for this govt even be invested in that can of worms?

[Ef-man]

It could have been Germans too, in order to wean off russian gas and not antagonize them.

[DarrinS]

It could have been Germans too, in order to wean off russian gas and not antagonize them.


:lmao

[Ef-man]

Hmmm

Russian state energy giant Gazprom is starting its own private security force, a move Ukraine fears will lead to a new Wagner-like mercenary army.

https://news.yahoo.com/russian-state-energy-giant-gazprom

[daboom1]

Hersh has gotten more gullible chasing the big story these days. Can't trust only him anymore.

Sy Hersh bad now.

[ElNono]

Sy Hersh bad now.

Just now?

He thinks Trump is smart (https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/trump-crazy-like-fox-seymour-hersh/). He subscribes to conspiracy theories about the raid against Osama bin Laden (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32698016). He continues to defend the Assad regime, pretending that it didn't use poison gas (https://al-bab.com/blog/2018/06/seymour-hersh-syria-theres-no-such-thing-chlorine-bomb).

[ElNono]

If the US did it, I'm actually onboard. That was the one big piece of leverage Russia had on Europe, so taking it away looks like the right decision in hindsight... :tu

[Winehole23]

If the US did it, I'm actually onboard. That was the one big piece of leverage Russia had on Europe, so taking it away looks like the right decision in hindsight... :tuStrategically risky, could alienate our EU allies and damage the effort to beat Putin. Trust arrives by foot and departs on horseback.

[Winehole23]

Whoopsie

1623455807483351040

[Spurs Homer]

The people that are the most outraged over this pipeline being blown up are:

Cucker Tarlson
Putin
TSA
Trump

so kudos to whomever blew it up!

[FrostKing]

Old news.

[ElNono]

Strategically risky, could alienate our EU allies and damage the effort to beat Putin. Trust arrives by foot and departs on horseback.

There’s no time for hesitation when you have a deluded lunatic like Putler blackmailing the free world, tbh

[DarrinS]

Promise kept?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8

[spurraider21]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/041/132/darkbrandon.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Promise kept?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8

"feckless"

[RandomGuy]

Anytime a journalist relies on secret sources (especially uncorroborated ones -- Sy Hersh is no longer subject to editorial/institutional control) verification is a problem. The strong conclusory language of the article demands strong evidence, which is lacking here.

That said, the inferences drawn against the USA and Norway are plausible. Who had the most to gain strategically from wrecking the pipelines? Who has materially benefited in the aftermath?

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

Except Russia has a history of false flag attacks on its own pipelines. Murkier and murkier.

[Tyronn Lue]

Except Russia has a history of false flag attacks on its own pipelines. Murkier and murkier.
The pipeline would have destroyed 3 Russian ships and a couple tanks. Russia wouldn't have defeated it.

[Winehole23]

Except Russia has a history of false flag attacks on its own pipelines. Murkier and murkier.I don't disbelieve you, when has this happened before?

[RandomGuy]

I don't disbelieve you, when has this happened before?

going off of something I read a while back, will see if I can find it. time's up for ST for today though. busy day ahead.

[hater]

:lmao Joe

Hersch said this is the dubmest thing any president has done in years. That includes Trump :lmao :lmao

:lol

https://twitter.com/frederickcheng5/status/1626478554270810114

[hater]

If the US did it, I'm actually onboard. That was the one big piece of leverage Russia had on Europe, so taking it away looks like the right decision in hindsight... :tu

ElTerroristo :lmao

[hater]

:lmao so many terrorist supporters in spurstalk :lmao

[hater]

:wow

https://twitter.com/ClareDalyMEP/status/1625873746434170882

[Spurs Homer]

Hey, guess who is triggered that russia got fucked!

comrade hater lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Anytime a journalist relies on secret sources (especially uncorroborated ones -- Sy Hersh is no longer subject to editorial/institutional control) verification is a problem. The strong conclusory language of the article demands strong evidence, which is lacking here.

That said, the inferences drawn against the USA and Norway are plausible. Who had the most to gain strategically from wrecking the pipelines? Who has materially benefited in the aftermath?

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

They really need to make critical thinking skills a HS requirement. You should not have to tell people this.

[ElNono]

ElTerroristo :lmao

Putler stan calling anybody else a terrorist... :lmao

[Winehole23]

They really need to make critical thinking skills a HS requirement. You should not have to tell people this.imho you can't make it mandatory, you have to give people space to fake it til they make it. there's no set age where education/wisdom/faculties kick in, and backsliding is a given.

[Winehole23]

Very skimpy on details/sources. Diverges from earlier statements indicating a state actor.


New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year, a step toward determining responsibility for an act of sabotage that has confounded investigators on both sides of the Atlantic for months.

U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials.



U.S. officials said there was much they did not know about the perpetrators and their affiliations. The review of newly collected intelligence suggests they were opponents of President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, but does not specify the members of the group, or who directed or paid for the operation. U.S. officials declined to disclose the nature of the intelligence, how it was obtained or any details of the strength of the evidence it contains. They have said that there are no firm conclusions about it, leaving open the possibility that the operation might have been conducted off the books by a proxy force with connections to the Ukrainian government or its security services.


U.S. officials say they have not found any evidence of involvement by the Russian government in the attack.

Officials who have reviewed the intelligence said they believed the saboteurs were most likely Ukrainian or Russian nationals, or some combination of the two. U.S. officials said no American or British nationals were involved.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html?smid=tw-share

[DarrinS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M

[Winehole23]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3Mcan you summarize, in your own words?

[ChumpDumper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M

Who do you think blew up the pipeline, Darrin?

[Winehole23]

Who do you think blew up the pipeline, Darrin?as ever, allergic to talking about his own posts or giving a take.

Darrin hides.

[Winehole23]

My own take is that the available evidence isn't conclusive.

[Winehole23]

Anything beyond that seems more or less polemical at this point, and that's OK. Forever will puzzle me that people can't admit that, and just give a take. For my own part, it hadn't occurred to me that Ukraine might be behind it. That inference also seems plausible, but the facts are likewise fuzzy.

[RandomGuy]

Who do you think blew up the pipeline, Darrin?

Russia.

One can follow the reasoning here, through some translations.
https://twitter.com/patrikoksanen/status/1633209989539020800?s=20
1633209989539020800

1) Russia had already stopped deliveries (their decision, remember)
2) Russia has a history of false flag attacks on its own shit.
3) NS2 wasn't hit.
4) NS1 getting wiped out allowed Russia to declare force majure on their existing contracts and get out of paying non-delivery penalties.

"if the Germans gave their thumbs up and approved NS2 (which was thus stopped due to the Russian escalation against Ukraine), which would be a political victory to pressure the West into concessions ."

They got to get out of massive penalties, punish the West, and then have a chance at strong-arming the Germans into greenlighting NS2, a chief Russian priority.

An overestimation of their position, just like the overestimation of the invasion.

[RandomGuy]

My own take is that the available evidence isn't conclusive.

It is not conclusive.

I would point out, though that the Russians have had submarines capable of doing stuff like this, and have used those subs to fuck with NATO sensors on the sea floor, and have that capability to be able to cut trans-atlantic comms cables.

RUS has both the motive, and capability, just like the West.

My money would be on RUS. Low confidence guess, but I put it as slightly more likely.

[Winehole23]

Details still sparse, but now we have US and German intelligence pointing the finger at "Ukrainians."


German investigators believe the attack on the pipelines was carried out by a team of six people, using a yacht that had been hired by a company registered in Poland and owned by two Ukrainian citizens, according to Die Zeit (https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2023-03/nordstream-2-ukraine-anschlag).


Six people were involved in the operation to transport explosives to the site, the yacht’s captain, two divers, two diving assistants and a doctor. All six were understood to have used professionally faked passports, said Die Zeit, with their real identities still unclear.
The yacht set sail from the German port city of Rostock on 6 September. The equipment for the secret operation was previously transported to the port in a delivery truck, according to Die Zeit. After its return, investigators found traces of explosives on one of the tables inside the hired vessel.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/07/officials-believe-pro-ukraine-group-sabotage-nord-stream-pipelines

[boutons_deux]

Ukrainians blowing up Russian gas lines really is no motivation for Ukraine's allies

[Winehole23]

Ukrainians blowing up Russian gas lines really is no motivation for Ukraine's alliesone whimsical take on this I've seen is that Germany demanded political cover from the US to withdraw from the Ukraine War effort, or it would blame the US for the Nord Stream bombing and withdraw from NATO.

in any case, the current US/Germany/Denmark narrative does not seem designed to inspire confidence among the allies of Ukraine.

[Winehole23]

Very skimpy on details/sources. Diverges from earlier statements indicating a state actor.





https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html?smid=tw-shareUkraine did it now appears to be the official US line.

1666097331199160321

[Winehole23]

Baltoconnector pipeline damaged


Damage to an undersea gas pipeline and telecommunications cable connecting Finland and Estonia appears to have been caused by “external activity,” Finnish officials said Tuesday, adding that authorities were investigating.

Finnish and Estonian gas system operators on Sunday said they noted an unusual drop in pressure in the Balticconnector pipeline after which they shut down the gas flow (https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-gas-pipeline-b223c6926f06c3a08f402de133699a3f).

The Finnish government on Tuesday said there was damage both to the gas pipeline and to a telecommunications cable between the two NATO countries.

“According to a preliminary assessment, the observed damage could not have occurred as a result of normal use of the pipe or pressure fluctuations. It is likely that the damage is the result of external activity,” Orpo said.
https://apnews.com/article/finland-estonia-pipeline-24d6623cf2778464fdb4ef1d85c70d91

[RandomGuy]

Very skimpy on details/sources. Diverges from earlier statements indicating a state actor.





https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-pipeline-sabotage-ukraine.html?smid=tw-share

Hersch got suckered.

He also got caught quoting a source that, for SOME reason, used russian idioms.

[Winehole23]

Hersch got suckered.

He also got caught quoting a source that, for SOME reason, used russian idioms.if the US/German take is correct, folks who pointed the finger at Russia were also wrong. unfortunately, spooky whispers to newspapers aren't verifiable without information that's probably classified.

[RandomGuy]

My own take is that the available evidence isn't conclusive.

I would agree. Nothing conclusive. The worst actor, Russia, had both motive, and capability. Occams razor suggests that if one had to pin a culprit, it would be RUS. Blowing up a pipeline like that is fully within modus operendi of RUS, and would be uncharacteristic of other leaders/governments. UKR simply wouldn't have the capability. All very circumstantial.

[Thread]

I would agree. Nothing conclusive. The worst actor, Russia, had both motive, and capability. Occams razor suggests that if one had to pin a culprit, it would be RUS. Blowing up a pipeline like that is fully within modus operendi of RUS, and would be uncharacteristic of other leaders/governments. UKR simply wouldn't have the capability. All very circumstantial.

Any country that encourages & permits it's denizens to attempt to assassinate it's sitting President at least 5 times is fully capable, dad.

Let us proceed...

Oh, and 1 more thing, RG...American Democracy, my ass.

[hater]

:tu

We did

we bombed the Nordstream. Biden is a terrorist

[Thread]

:tu

We did

we bombed the Nordstream. Biden is a terrorist

That's it & that's all.

[Winehole23]

More whispers into the media megaphone. Ukraine did it still seems to be narrative emphasized in the DC newspaper of record.

https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/1723401521805541681?s=20

1723401521805541681