The Wine Cellar of Julian Champagnie

[Fusternino]

And so it begins.

[John B]

Score-first mentality, volume shooter. McBuckets replacement after we trade his expiring contract next season for 2 FRP’s unprotected :lol

[The Truth #6]

Volume shooter with poor defense. Sounds like a perfect player to lead us into the home stretch.

[offset formation]

Volume shooter with poor defense. Sounds like a perfect player to lead us into the home stretch.

We just released Stanley Johnson.

[JPB]

Score-first mentality, volume shooter. McBuckets replacement after we trade his expiring contract next season for 2 FRP’s unprotected :lol

Or 10 SRPs.

[Ariel]

Score-first mentality, volume shooter. McBuckets replacement after we trade his expiring contract next season for 2 FRP’s unprotected :lol
Next trade deadline: Ben Simmons + 2 unrestricted firsts for McDermott + Graham + filler. Calling it now.

[John B]

We just released Stanley Johnson.

Offense >>> defense helps the tank :lol:lol

[venitian navigator]

Next trade deadline: Ben Simmons + 2 unrestricted firsts for McDermott + Graham + filler. Calling it now.

if something like this happens, makes more sense if it happens this summer insted than in winter...

[CGD]

Next trade deadline: Ben Simmons + 2 unrestricted firsts for McDermott + Graham + filler. Calling it now.

I think you’re on to something.
I do that deal in a years time.

[CGD]

Another project they’ll hope to flip into a SRP in the future.

[mo7888]

if something like this happens, makes more sense if it happens this summer insted than in winter...

I agree...and I'd do that for 2 unprotected 1sts..

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

We just released Stanley Johnson.

Stanley was trying to play defense. That's big tanking no-no and so he deserved to be cut.

[The Truth #6]

I don’t see Brooklyn giving up major assets to unload Simmons at this point. They’re already in rebuilding mode, basically overnight. If the owner doesn’t care about debt, then he will perhaps stubbornly hold onto him, or perhaps wisely just to maintain their few draft picks they have left.

[Ariel]

if something like this happens, makes more sense if it happens this summer insted than in winter...
Could be both, they have 5 unprotected picks after the Durant & Irving trades, so if they want to make a splash in free agency in '24, dumping Simmons would be the way to go. I hate Simmons, but I'm all for this.

[Ariel]

I don’t see Brooklyn giving up major assets to unload Simmons at this point. They’re already in rebuilding mode, basically overnight. If the owner doesn’t care about debt, then he will perhaps stubbornly hold onto him, or perhaps wisely just to maintain their few draft picks they have left.
They owe pretty much every pick of their own for a few years (to Houston, thanks to the beard), so they can't pull a cold reset. Also the put together a decent supporting cast, and NY is a prime FA destination, so if they remain respectable throughout next season (no internal conflicts and within the play in at least) I think there's a very good chance they'll try to lure one or two free agents and use some of those picks in a trade. Dumping Simmons would be the first step in that direction. The class of '23 is trash, but the class of '24 has some interesting FAs, like Siakam, Sabonis, Jaylen Brown, Dejounte, Kuzma, etc.

[JPB]

Not sure (feel free to correct) but I believe as we're speaking after the Durant trade, BKN have potentially 2 FRPs this year, then 0 next year, then 2 in 2025 then 0 in 2026... So yeah, not sure they'd be willing to give 2 FRPs this summer or next winter to get rid of Simmons as they're rebuilding.

There's also a lot of swaps in their picks, making them even more fragile.

[Ariel]

Not sure (feel free to correct) but I believe as we're speaking after the Durant trade, BKN have potentially 2 FRPs this year, then 0 next year, then 2 in 2025 then 0 in 2026... So yeah, not sure they'd be willing to give 2 FRPs this summer or next winter to get rid of Simmons as they're rebuilding.

There's also a lot of swaps in their picks, making them even more fragile.
Their interesting unrestricted picks are in '28 or '29, which is long enough for Phoenix & Dallas to implode. If they want to dump 2 years of Simmons at 40M each for a couple 1sts in the 20s they can enjoy his drama for the remainder of his contract.

[JPB]

Here's BKN future draft picks:

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

(I first got just a bunch of rats pics for my "Brooklyn nets draft capital" search, then I check it again and read "Brooklyn nets rat capital"...:lol)

[Ariel]

No need to make it more complicated than this: they got 4 unprotected firsts ('23, '25, '27 & '29) and an unprotected swap ('28) from Phoenix for Durant, and 1 unprotected pick in '29 from Dallas for Kyrie. It's the farthest of those picks that hold the most value. They can't trade picks of their own until '28 or '29 because they owe picks until '27 for Harden.

[The Truth #6]

I suppose if they had some very expensive superstars coming onto the team, somehow, then they would need to get rid of Simmons salary, but just my opinion, I wonder how much the GM Sean Marks wants to dive back into those chaotic waters right away, and perhaps just wanna start slowly like he was doing before they went all in on Kyrie and Durant. I don’t see them in “win now mode”, so not sure why they feel a need to get rid of Simmons at a loss, when they’re already losing and may be tanking soon enough.

[JeffDuncan]

Here's BKN future draft picks:

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

(I first got just a bunch of rats pics for my "Brooklyn nets draft capital" search, then I check it again and read "Brooklyn nets rat capital"...:lol)


Lol! I wonder if the Nets might keep Simmons, for a while, another season, with not much playing time for him, then offer him a buyout, at a steep discount. In a situation like that, and since he doesn’t seem thrilled at playing basketball anyway, he might take it. Who knows.

[dbestpro]

Do you think Atlanta might do a Brooklyn if they stay mediocre?

[exstatic]

Do you think Atlanta might do a Brooklyn if they stay mediocre?

Brooklyn owns a lot of other picks than their own. ATL doesn’t, and the landscape of teams that could pay current ridiculous market prices for Trae is barren.

[Fusternino]

Bring out the glasses?

[Joseph Kony]

Sign me up

[Dejounte]

Man among boys tbh

[Robz4000]

Checking in tbh.

[BackHome]

Their interesting unrestricted picks are in '28 or '29, which is long enough for Phoenix & Dallas to implode. If they want to dump 2 years of Simmons at 40M each for a couple 1sts in the 20s they can enjoy his drama for the remainder of his contract.

Yeah, having him on your team just leaves a foul taste for all the fans and current players it just such a bad look they should just take the hit and move on. Getting rid of the player is probably better for the organization then getting rid of his contract he to me is just a big cancer you don’t want your rookies around.

[Rito3d30]

Did he grow an inch or two? He looked as tall as Miller in one of the closeup on both

[BackHome]

Champ is a legit 6'8 in shoes...

[exstatic]

Champ is a legit 6'8 in shoes...

It’s funny because if you go to their bbref pages, Julian is listed at 6’8” and Justin at 6’6”. Aren’t identical twins supposed to be…identical?

[slick'81]

Seems to have enough tools for the spurs to salvage something nice

[JPB]

It’s funny because if you go to their bbref pages, Julian is listed at 6’8” and Justin at 6’6”. Aren’t identical twins supposed to be…identical?

Not if you masturbate too much.

[Leetonidas]

Pour me some Champagnie

[SequSpur]

So tired of these stupid Topic Names.. What are you 12?

[cutewizard]

Sniper

[spurraider21]

Would you trade him for Tatum, tbh?

[jhfenton]

So tired of these stupid Topic Names.. What are you 12?

If they were 12 when it started, they're over 30 now. Embrace the tradition.

Now I'm not sure M. Champagnie needs two player threads. We should pick a winner and close the other one.

[Darkwaters]

It’s funny because if you go to their bbref pages, Julian is listed at 6’8” and Justin at 6’6”. Aren’t identical twins supposed to be…identical?

Height does vary even with identical twins. I dated a girl in college that had an identical twin that was an inch and a half shorter than her.

[couchman]

Aging like fine wine

[spurraider21]

Aging like fine wine
id have said fine champaigne

[scott]

Real shame that Doc Rivers got fired and isn't around to release any more promising young prospects (Bassey, Champ)

[TekXX]

He's proven he can destroy barely G-league competition obviously we'll need to see if this can translate to NBA talent competition.

[exstatic]

He's proven he can destroy barely G-league competition obviously we'll need to see if this can translate to NBA talent competition.

He had a bigger sample size against NBA competition and did alright last year. The only real question was about his shooting carrying over, and it seems to be.

[couchman]

The question about Champagnie was whether the 40% 3pt shooting we saw in the last 15 NBA games last year was for real.
So far in Summer League it looks real, 10-22 shooting from 3 point range over two games.

[Mr. Body]

Sure seems to have no problem shooting with a hand in his face.

[cutewizard]

Sniperrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr shooting

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkWARmWuY3M

[cutewizard]

what a FIND for the magnificent Spurs

he actually shoots like Chip Engelland of the NCC RP National Team under legendary Coach Ron Jacobs

[Cabrito]

When he shoots from 3, his form is great and I expect the ball to go in, rather than hope it will go in. That’s not the same feeling I get from the rest of the main squad.

[Proxy]

https://streamable.com/d028zx

sick dunk

[onechance87]

champ had another good game huh...If he can do this in the reg season consistently...We got ourselves a steal

[Ef-man]

champ had another good game huh...If he can do this in the reg season consistently...We got ourselves a steal

Champ looks like legit high % shooter and comfortable passing the ball to the open man.

Hope it transfers to the reg. season.

[slick'81]

We got Julian and bassey from phili right?? Not bad at all

[Mr. Body]

May be the best player in Summer League so far, and not just the Spurs.

[spurraider21]

Might be the best Juli_ _ in 76ers history

[TD 21]

Too soon, but he might ultimately make Johnson expendable.

In the meantime, the odds of Graham (if retained) being out of the rotation have increased because however they finagle the non-Jones PG minutes, he has to have a path to minutes.

[RC_Drunkford]

With how Blake is looking I think Branham will be back up PG so Champagnie can get minutes

Branham/McDermott/Champagnie/Sochan/Bassey

[Mr. Body]

With how Blake is looking I think Branham will be back up PG so Champagnie can get minutes

Branham/McDermott/Champagnie/Sochan/Bassey

I've barely seen any passes from Branham. His role is to be a scorer.

[exstatic]

I've barely seen any passes from Branham. His role is to be a scorer.

In summer league, yes, but last year he was backup PG.

[Mr. Body]

In summer league, yes, but last year he was backup PG.

Jesus Christ

[koriwhat]

The Champ/Barlow 1-2 punch is nice to see consistently

[RC_Drunkford]

I've barely seen any passes from Branham. His role is to be a scorer.

I've barely seen any passes from Patty Mills when he played here. His role was to be a scorer

[Mr. Body]

I've barely seen any passes from Patty Mills when he played here. His role was to be a scorer

You must have been fucking blind then.

[RC_Drunkford]

You must have been fucking blind then.

you must have not read the stat sheet then

[Twisted_Dawg]

We got Julian and bassey from phili right?? Not bad at all

And would they both have been cut by the great Doc Rivers?

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYUwiZIYIdo

[tonight...you]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYUwiZIYIdo
The stare-down with the guy lowering his head in submission and Jules is like, Yup...
Terrific.

[Fusternino]

Not so good so far?

[PrimeMinister]

time to earn some of that non guaranteed money jules

go get em

[onechance87]

i would start him....See what he gots...Dont think we should mess with the bench rotations yet

[Atl Spur]

i would start him....See what he gots...Dont think we should mess with the bench rotations yet

Couldn’t hurt, he is a nice player with a high bbiq. Jeremy, champ, keldon, Wemby, Zollins

[John B]

Pop usually plays his rotation players and would insert a player from the 3rd stringers so not to distrupt the flow. Yup Champagnie would be a great candidate here.

Personally I rather see Tre playing as much time with the starters.

[Atl Spur]

Pop usually plays his rotation players and would insert a player from the 3rd stringers so not to distrupt the flow. Yup Champagnie would be a great candidate here.

Personally I rather see Tre playing as much time with the starters.

Hurts JS development but better chance for wins; this draft have some great pg draft prospects you may be able to snag…….

[John B]

Hurts JS development but better chance for wins; this draft have some great pg draft prospects you may be able to snag…….

That would be nice. Raptors could get us a lottery pick. I’m not rooting for Spurs own pick to be as high. Honestly I like this team to overachieve to help Wemby as one of the greatest rookies

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Hopefully Julian gets some run and returns to late last season form. He shot the ball very well and looked so confident then and Summer League

[Fizziksman]

It's his time to shine.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JulianChampagn2/status/1821661603252859288

[widowmaker]

If we can get summer league champagnie that would be awesome.

[sfernald]

I'm just saying, might be up for most improved this year! Looking like a real player out there!!

[LeBowen]

I'm just saying, might be up for most improved this year! Looking like a real player out there!!

It all comes down to his shooting.
If he can maintain this level he's a role player every team wants.
Great size, let's say ~38 to 40% from deep and not a negative on defense.
On a bargain $3M a year up until the end of 26-27 season. Could very well turn out to be a steal.

His form looks pure, he just needs confidence and a functioning team because shooters with no self-creation like him often look way worse than they actually are without proper playmaking around them.

[BackHome]

My problem with Champagnie in the past has not been with his offense but rather his team defense. He is a decent one on one defender but he was lost on team defense most of the time last season. I am hoping Pop got on his ass and told him he can do much better and that he was going to be doing a lot of tough love regarding his effort and performance.

[Mr. Body]

It's as much him hitting - what's vital is that he's pulling whenever he has an opening. End of his first year here, Pop was begging him to shoot. He was still hesitant last year. Now, he's gotten where he's letting fly.

Post-game, Pop praised Collins' play. He didn't hit his shots. Maybe he was rusty, maybe he won't ever hit again, but the point is that he was taking the right shots. The staff is constantly talking about taking the right shots and not passing them up and Julian is at that point.

[LeBowen]

My problem with Champagnie in the past has not been with his offense but rather his team defense. He is a decent one on one defender but he was lost on team defense most of the time last season. I am hoping Pop got on his ass and told him he can do much better and that he was going to be doing a lot of tough love regarding his effort and performance.

Tbh, everyone except Wemby and maybe Jeremy was tragic on defense.
Whenever Wemby sat we looked like the worst defensive team in basketball history.

We'll see how Pop staggers minutes because if we assume CP3/Devin/Jeremy/Barnes/Wemby is the starting lineup, bench defense except for Castle and Wesley will be tragic yet again.
Keldon, Mamu and Collins are big negatives, Branham and Champagnie aren't much better without rim protection and a functioning system.


Post-game, Pop praised Collins' play. He didn't hit his shots. Maybe he was rusty, maybe he won't ever hit again, but the point is that he was taking the right shots. The staff is constantly talking about taking the right shots and not passing them up and Julian is at that point.

Imo, now that we have enough actual point guards, our offense will be fine.
Yeah, we'll struggle at times because there's not enough firepower, but it will be functioning.

Keldon/Mamu/Collins bench trio on the other hand is horrible defensively and as I wrote already we'll need Jeremy to play instead of one of the wings and maybe even Devin.
I'd honestly just have Devin lead the bench unit. Kind of how Middleton does for the Bucks.
He'd feast on most backup guards and if we assume CP3 will spend most minutes playing with Wemby, someone will need to lead the second unit.

[onechance87]

I'm just saying, might be up for most improved this year! Looking like a real player out there!!

none of this matters unless he does this in the reg season.He played great in the summer and preseason as well last year.Then he was
bad at the start of reg season..But hopefully this real and can keep it up.We need shooting bad.

[sfernald]

none of this matters unless he does this in the reg season.He played great in the summer and preseason as well last year.Then he was
bad at the start of reg season..But hopefully this real and can keep it up.We need shooting bad.

true true. I have hope tho this year at least.

[playbonner15]

If Champenny will continue to hit those 3s at a high clip into the regular season, the Spurs might become playoff contenders bec Pop loves to give him playing time. Unfortunately this might affect their draft odds next season

[exstatic]

If Champenny will continue to hit those 3s at a high clip into the regular season, the Spurs might become playoff contenders bec Pop loves to give him playing time. Unfortunately this might affect their draft odds next season

Good thing we have that ATL pick in our back pocket, then.

[spurraider21]

If Champenny will continue to hit those 3s at a high clip into the regular season, the Spurs might become playoff contenders bec Pop loves to give him playing time. Unfortunately this might affect their draft odds next season
obviously the accuracy has been great, but he's also seemed more comfortable getting the shots off with less space. his release also may be more compact.

[Fusternino]

Buckets?

[Dejounte]

Buckets?

he’s always been

[Mr. Body]

Dude is looking like a real role-player in this league. Not just letting fly but a lot of little stuff with pretty good defense.

[DAF86]

That contract looking like the bargain of the century.

[CGD]

Definitely. We should always make sure to check the Philly scrapheap.

[scott]

His defensive is really solid too, which is key. I think 3 steals tonight? He picks up blocked shots at a pretty decent clip as well. Not quite Danny Green/Derrick White level stuff, but still above average.

Really fits what the Spurs need out of the 3 nicely, and a big part of why I'd move Vassell to a 6th man role when healthy. Vassell is a little too ball dominant at times, which is not what the SL needs, but is what the bench unit needs.

[John B]

Champ is making the argument as a starter next to Wemby. He opens the lanes, plays D, rebounds and does not demand a lot of touches, which helps Castle also to get more, compare to Vassell who will be more dominant. And having Vassell helps the 2nd unit a lot not to miss a beat.

[CorrectCrusader]

When Vassel and Sochan come back I find it extremely hard to put them back in the starting lineup over a player like Champ.

[Robz4000]

LDN lite

[cutewizard]

Champ is making the argument as a starter next to Wemby. He opens the lanes, plays D, rebounds and does not demand a lot of touches, which helps Castle also to get more, compare to Vassell who will be more dominant. And having Vassell helps the 2nd unit a lot not to miss a beat.


Again my question is

Will Devin be content with such a role ??

The moment has psychological connotations......self esteem, etc

[cutewizard]

I wished everyone had the balance and magnanimity and maturity of Manu

So rare.....

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP0uWzposb0

[Fizziksman]

Champ is making the argument as a starter next to Wemby. He opens the lanes, plays D, rebounds and does not demand a lot of touches, which helps Castle also to get more, compare to Vassell who will be more dominant. And having Vassell helps the 2nd unit a lot not to miss a beat.

yep Vassell should be leading the 2nd unit, and take away touches from Keldon. The more Keldon's role in the team is diminished the better.

[LeBowen]

yep Vassell should be leading the 2nd unit, and take away touches from Keldon. The more Keldon's role in the team is diminished the better.

Vassell can start and lead the second unit.
He'll be coming off the bench for the foreseeable future due to his injuries, but it will be interesting to follow how the situation unfolds long-term.

[Ocotillo]

Definitely. We should always make sure to check the Philly scrapheap. The Doc Rivers effect. I know Doc wasn't there when Mamu was cut loose but he is now coaching the Bucks, maybe they have some cuts we could look over?

[John B]

Again my question is

Will Devin be content with such a role ??

The moment has psychological connotations......self esteem, etc

Devin is the highest paid player in the team. I doubt he plays off the bench. I was just saying that Champ playing so well in the SL with his overall plays both sides of the court. And currently the SL is much balanced, because it allows Castle to have enough touches, which Devin would take some of Castle’s touches when he comes back in the SL.

[LeBowen]

Devin is the highest paid player in the team. I doubt he plays off the bench. I was just saying that Champ playing so well in the SL with his overall plays both sides of the court. And currently the SL is much balanced, because it allows Castle to have enough touches, which Devin would take some of Castle’s touches when he comes back in the SL.

Even before he re-injured himself, Mitch said Devin would be coming off the bench for the foreseeable future. I don't think he'll start until he's in peak condition.
Staying healthy is his biggest test. Yeah, he can become a better basketball player, but if he's not healthy, it won't matter.

Spurs need to tread carefully with him. If he can't stay healthy, we should package him while he's at peak value and the league isn't caught up with it.

[spurraider21]

this is why it was so important for Barnes to waive his trade kicker. only other way that trade could have happened was waiving champagnie. even if he doesnt turn out to be great, he's making 3 mil per year and we have him locked in for the next 2 seasons as well :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

It‘s been a revelation that he can also guard bigs. Did a great job on Markkanen and even guarded AD pretty well at times

[scott]

Champ's perimeter defense has been really underrated.

https://i.ibb.co/BPZJDGr/defense.png

[TimmyBuckets]

So far this season, him and Castle have been the biggest surprises.

[ambchang]

Don’t understand how people on ST are still hating on him. He’s been a huge surprise this year and looks like a modern day Danny green at times (who can drive to the basket but not as quick on d).

Surprised to see Jalen Johnson that bad. I thought he would be above average as a defender.

[CGD]

Champ's perimeter defense has been really underrated.

https://i.ibb.co/BPZJDGr/defense.png

Neat chart. Toumani Camara would be a nice pick up if they could pry him from the Blazers.

[Raven]

he's been good since last year, not sure why people are surprised

[rjv]

he's been good since last year, not sure why people are surprised


dude was practically public enemy #1 around this same time last year.

[ambchang]

he's been good since last year, not sure why people are surprised

I wouldn’t go that far. He was on a good contract last year and he played as such. He is better driving to the basket this year, he is shooting with more confidence this year, more consistent this year, and his defence is much better than last year (based on eye test). Rotations are crisp and he is playing plus perimeter defence. Can’t say the same last year.

[spurraider21]

he's definitely been a more well rounded player compared to last year. he's finishing over 72% inside 3 feet so far, compared to 64% last year. while as a % of his FGA, he's actually taking less shots inside 3 feet than he was last year, its noteworthy that over 21% of his 2pt shots have been unassisted this year, whereas that was about 14% last year

he's had some rough moments in transition when trying to push (kind of just has blinders, which is expected, he's not a playmaker), but his willingness to attack the cup is nice. and defensively, he's been much more impactful than last year even though he always had solid measurables

while he's been relatively hot last 3 games, he's still only at 36% from 3 for the season, and i dont think thats a satisfactory mark for him

[exstatic]

I wouldn’t go that far. He was on a good contract last year and he played as such. He is better driving to the basket this year, he is shooting with more confidence this year, more consistent this year, and his defence is much better than last year (based on eye test). Rotations are crisp and he is playing plus perimeter defence. Can’t say the same last year.

Last year’s 3s .365

This year’s 3s .360

[ambchang]

Last year’s 3s .365

This year’s 3s .360

I didn’t say more accurate, I said more confident. Last year he shot 6.8 3s per 36, this year he’s at 8.3 with more minutes.

The problem with his 3s last year is that he would lose confidence in his entire game when his shot isn’t falling, this year he just does other stuff. He also would hesitate on his shot last year, this year he just lets it fly.

[Gibbz]

A cool 30 on 8-16/6-12/8-8 for Champ tonight. And he's on an absolute steal of a contract. Thank God for the Philly scrap-heap.

[exstatic]

I didn’t say more accurate, I said more confident. Last year he shot 6.8 3s per 36, this year he’s at 8.3 with more minutes.

The problem with his 3s last year is that he would lose confidence in his entire game when his shot isn’t falling, this year he just does other stuff. He also would hesitate on his shot last year, this year he just lets it fly.

You also said more consistent, which means percentage.

[ambchang]

You also said more consistent, which means percentage.

No. It means variance.

[BackHome]

he's been good since last year, not sure why people are surprised

If your comparing his play to his salary then Yes but if your comparing him to say a starter in the NBA then maybe just decent. Last year he would drive me crazy on defense he was a terrible team defender he always looked lost and being out of position. This year his defense is better and his overall play is also better but he still is very inconsistent with his offense he will have a good game and then one or two bad games.

[Raven]

If your comparing his play to his salary then Yes but if your comparing him to say a starter in the NBA then maybe just decent. Last year he would drive me crazy on defense he was a terrible team defender he always looked lost and being out of position. This year his defense is better and his overall play is also better but he still is very inconsistent with his offense he will have a good game and then one or two bad games.

i just really disagree

[John B]

What’s great is his improved defense and is becoming one of the better defenders in the team, making him an ideal 3nD with the 1st squad.

[exstatic]

No. It means variance.

If you vary, you’re not consistent. Variance is the opposite of consistency.

[ambchang]

If you vary, you’re not consistent. Variance is the opposite of consistency.

Didn’t realize you are this dense. But ok. Lack of variance.

[RC_Drunkford]

Top 5 player on the roster

[exstatic]

Didn’t realize you are this dense. But ok. Lack of variance.

Danny Green was the poster child for variance. I swear that he alternated 4/5 nights with 0/5 nights. That still made him one of the best 3&D guys out there. If you’re a 40% shooter, you don’t shoot 2/5 every night.

Also, I’m not the dense one. If you use a noun, and then say that I should have psychically figured out that you meant NOT the noun, you have the problem, not me.

[ambchang]

Danny Green was the poster child for variance. I swear that he alternated 4/5 nights with 0/5 nights. That still made him one of the best 3&D guys out there. If you’re a 40% shooter, you don’t shoot 2/5 every night.

Also, I’m not the dense one. If you use a noun, and then say that I should have psychically figured out that you meant NOT the noun, you have the problem, not me.

Ok. You win. I will try to focus on proper grammar and writing on a basketball forum, because I have to be cognizant that there are retards who can’t see the obvious. Especially how consistency means accuracy. Go write a dictionary for me too.

And I highly appreciate the random point about Danny green. Speaking of which. What’s your point, champaigne suck more than last year? He’s always good? He suck less? Do you have a point other than showing your vast linguistic superiority over people like me?

My new life goal is to write like you on a basketball forum, and will start equating accuracy to consistency. I am forever in your debt.

[TheBallsbreakers]

Go Julian

[scott]

Danny Green was the poster child for variance. I swear that he alternated 4/5 nights with 0/5 nights. That still made him one of the best 3&D guys out there. If you’re a 40% shooter, you don’t shoot 2/5 every night.

Also, I’m not the dense one. If you use a noun, and then say that I should have psychically figured out that you meant NOT the noun, you have the problem, not me.


Ok. You win. I will try to focus on proper grammar and writing on a basketball forum, because I have to be cognizant that there are retards who can’t see the obvious. Especially how consistency means accuracy. Go write a dictionary for me too.

And I highly appreciate the random point about Danny green. Speaking of which. What’s your point, champaigne suck more than last year? He’s always good? He suck less? Do you have a point other than showing your vast linguistic superiority over people like me?

My new life goal is to write like you on a basketball forum, and will start equating accuracy to consistency. I am forever in your debt.

Came to this thread for a different reason but not going to pass up an opportunity to clown exstatic.

Variance is a measure. One of the thing it can measure is, consistency. Just like temperature can measure cold. Because most adults have at least an elementary school education, no one has to go around saying "it's cold, we can tell by the lack of temperature" :lol

We can measure consistency with variance (or standard deviation), the fact that a low variance means consistency is implied by the definition of variance. DUH DONKEY

[slick'81]

So hes the new danny green? Kool

[scott]

Anyway... what I came here for...

Not that I have a strong desire to get rid of him, but Julian might sneakily be one of our absolute best trade assets to a very specific subset of teams. Dude plays solid defense, is a decent (but inconsistent - which can be fixed) shooter, and is under contract for less than 2% of the cap for two more years after this one.

A 1st apron team (who cannot take back more salary than they send) with atrocious depth would LOVE a guy like Champ. The Spurs can take back up to $6.25MM for Julian, and a 1st team would just have to send out $3MM or more. The Spurs would obviously require draft compensation for this, and I think Julian could actually net an FRP from a playoff team looking to make a move like this.

Here are all the teams to whom this would apply



DEN could send any one of: Saric, Westbrook, Braun, Holmes. I think Saric is the only one who makes even a little bit of sense, but it leaves DEN even weaker in bench bigs and they probably don't need another SF. That might be the only position they're okay on depth wise.
PHX is actually who could probably use Julian the most but they don't have any contracts that work
MIN could only send NAW, so they probably wouldn't do that.
BOS could send Jaden Springer, who I've heard somewhere that they might actually look to move, but I'm not sure they need Julian... but they do love to shoot 3s, play some D, and get great value from the Spurs.
MIL has no one they can send
LAL could send Christian Wood, Dalton Knecht (not going to happen), or Jalen Hood-Schifino. The Lakers declined JHS's 3rd year option so this would actually be a perfect move for them if they wanted to add a player like Champ.
NYK could send Miles McBride or Precious Achiuwa, they aren't going to do either of those things.
MIA could send: Josh Richardson, Jaime Jaquez, Kevin Love, Kel Ware, or Haywood Highsmith. Richardson and Love would be the realistic options, probably Josh.
PHI could send: Eric Gordon, Jared McCain, or Andre Drummond. This isn't a move they're going to make though it would be hilarious.


How does Champ to MIA for Josh and a 2028 FRP and a 2029 Swap sound?

[scott]

No. It means variance.

This really interested me so I was hoping that some nerd had put together a Python script to measure variance (or standard deviation), and it turns out they haven't. Did find this great article where this guy looked at just a subset of players:

https://medium.com/@ben.g.ballard/nbas-streakiest-3-point-shooters-bfdc1a008034

Surprising absolutely no one, Steph is the least variable of any of the elite volume 3 point shooters in the league.

https://i.ibb.co/LSGPGJG/Screenshot-2024-12-07-220827.png

https://i.ibb.co/26P93zj/Screenshot-2024-12-07-220848.png

[ambchang]

This really interested me so I was hoping that some nerd had put together a Python script to measure variance (or standard deviation), and it turns out they haven't. Did find this great article where this guy looked at just a subset of players:

https://medium.com/@ben.g.ballard/nbas-streakiest-3-point-shooters-bfdc1a008034

Surprising absolutely no one, Steph is the least variable of any of the elite volume 3 point shooters in the league.

https://i.ibb.co/LSGPGJG/Screenshot-2024-12-07-220827.png

https://i.ibb.co/26P93zj/Screenshot-2024-12-07-220848.png

I actually wanted to do something like this, but not on individual players but more on teams. I always have a semi serious hunch of a conspiracy that the nba promotes 3 pt shooting to benefit the gambling side of business due to variance in scoring, and as such the gambling outcome.

The stats don’t favour me that much as the 3 pt evolution clearly started with the Durant warriors, where there was a clear increase in 3pa league wise in 2016-17 season, with an almost 3 attempts increase from the previous year, where previously it was trending at a 1.5 attempt increase per season. Which is why this is more a conspiracy than a theory.

But I am still curious as to how 3 pt shooting benefits the league in the betting side of business (I think it started in the 2018-19 season). What my conspiracy is is that 3 pt shooting leads to higher variance, which leads to more unexpected outcomes, leading to larger winnings, which leads to more betting. The variance side is easy to do, but I don’t have the betting numbers to check the historical lines, then the payouts, then the pool, so I gave up. lol.

On the other hand the Celtics are breaking this model by having almost every player shoot threes at a higher volume, which allows them to smooth out the variance as a team by allowing variance with individual players but overall relative consistency with the team, which is something I have to crunch the numbers to verify.

[Bruno]

One of the main thing I'm wondering about Spurs is how good a Castle/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wembanyama lineup can be in a couple of years?

Maybe it will suck because there isn't enough talent, playmaking and shooting
Maybe it will be the starting lineup of a contender.

It will obviously depend on the development of these young players, but, right now, I have truly no idea about good or bad it can be

[ambchang]

Champaigne will likely never be a creator but he may end up as a decent finisher. He has to work on his 3s and continue to improve on this driving game. His individual defense has always been at least decent and this year his team defence went up a step.

Sochan will also likely not be much of a creator but can be a good connective piece on offence. He is also a finisher but mostly as a cutter. Would love to have him shoot better from outside but that will take a long time.

Castle can definitely create for himself and others, but I’d still like to have him as a secondary creator. Again outside shooting.

Vassell is the big question mark. He can create for himself quite well. Next step is to create for others. Not sure if he will ever get there.

Wemby can clearly create for himself, his passing is special for a big, but I’d still like to see him do it at the high post area rather than 30 feet out.

While the last few games were simply ghastly defensively, I think the spurs have the tools to be a good defensive team even when wemby is resting. A lot has to do with themes, so let’s see how the coaching staff will handle that.

[Mr. Body]

Dude is a bargain. You'd want him to tick up a tad in his three percentage, but it's still good. Important is that he's productive elsewhere. He's doubled his rebounding per game - it seems a concentration for him and Sochan as starters next to Wemby. I remember when Pop was begging him to just launch shots two years ago and now he's just letting them go.

[LeBowen]

Dude is a bargain. You'd want him to tick up a tad in his three percentage, but it's still good. Important is that he's productive elsewhere. He's doubled his rebounding per game - it seems a concentration for him and Sochan as starters next to Wemby. I remember when Pop was begging him to just launch shots two years ago and now he's just letting them go.

His 3pt percentage it's actually fine now, it's just that he had a slow start.
Had a 4 game stretch with 3-18 games early on which brings down his percentage.
Shooting 37.6% on 7.8 attempts over the past 19 games and a lot of his misses go in and out like that heat check did last night.

Can't ask for more of a player who has size and is also solid on defense. Won't even mention his contract, I actually wonder is anyone else who's making less than $5M a year doing better than him this season?

[cutewizard]

Home grown

Or Spurs castle-forged......

[LeBowen]

Also...am I crazy to think Champagnie should be in Most Improved Player conversation? I'm not saying he should win it, but he definitely needs to make the shortlist.

He was out of the league less than two years ago, this season he's playing 10mpg more and he doubled his scoring and rebounding while also slightly improving his efficency.

[scott]

Also...am I crazy to think Champagnie should be in Most Improved Player conversation? I'm not saying he should win it, but he definitely needs to make the shortlist.

He was out of the league less than two years ago, this season he's playing 10mpg more and he doubled his scoring and rebounding while also slightly improving his efficency.

I think Champ and Sochan both have a case to be made. Unfortunately this award is really more of a "player who made a leap into All Star territory" or "best young player" award, not the player who improved the most, so neither is likely to get much consideration (Sochan might because he's of a higher profile - but probably not).

[John B]

Champ reached his 1000 points last night, and one of the only undrafted players with Reaves and FVV to reach 300 points this season. His productions have all improved, particularly his defense and rebounding. I’m not going to say MIP discussion, but hey the kid’s really making the most of his opportunities.

[scott]

Champagnie Supernova in the sky

[Guru of Nothing]

Julian's down by the schoolyard, schoolin'.

That's all I got.

[T Park]

more proof that the Spurs still can develop talent.

Hes adjusting to life off the bench and less good shots than he had in the starting lineup but his defense, rebounding and cutting to the basket are still there.

easy guy to root for.

[LeBowen]

If I was Champagnie, I'd ask for a trade. This is just nepotism at work. Or should I say contract-ism?

Plays well with Devin and Jeremy injured, gets benched and our starters look way worse without him.
But not only that, he's also somehow behind Keldon in rotation.
From 30 to 22mpg.

Gets us out of a slump at Brooklyn, 18 points on 9 shots and is rewarded with 10 minutes against Minnesota.
Keeps us in the game last night, 15 points and is rewarded with a whole bunch of nothing tonight.
Hit both his 3pt shots in the first half, got fouled on his first one in second...guess how many 3pt shots he finished with?
2 in 22 minutes.

He earned his roster spot, waited for a chance, took advantage of it and now he's behind negative players after all that. Because of what? What's the reasoning?

[Obstructed_View]

Tre, Keldon, Vassell need to be fucking traded. Jokic is the best player in the world and his teammates are so much better than Victor's are.

[LeBowen]

If I was Champagnie, I'd ask for a trade. This is just nepotism at work. Or should I say contract-ism?

Plays well with Devin and Jeremy injured, gets benched and our starters look way worse without him.
But not only that, he's also somehow behind Keldon in rotation.
From 30 to 22mpg.

Gets us out of a slump at Brooklyn, 18 points on 9 shots and is rewarded with 10 minutes against Minnesota.
Keeps us in the game last night, 15 points and is rewarded with a whole bunch of nothing tonight.
Hit both his 3pt shots in the first half, got fouled on his first one in second...guess how many 3pt shots he finished with?
2 in 22 minutes.

He earned his roster spot, waited for a chance, took advantage of it and now he's behind negative players after all that. Because of what? What's the reasoning?

I'll keep quoting this post after every game he doesn't close out.

[scott]

FREE CHAMPAGNIE!!!

[Seventyniner]

UNCORK CHAMPAGNIE!!!

Fixed.

[ace3g]

https://youtu.be/p6JwHczItsM?si=sA3023y0n5Cj1pt4

[John B]

https://youtu.be/p6JwHczItsM?si=sA3023y0n5Cj1pt4

Wemby’s hand would reach the produce section :lol

[ace3g]

Lol, posted using my phone and chose the wrong thread...

[LeBowen]

Have to bump this one again.

Is Champagnie a great player? Obviously not.
Does he have disgustingly bad moments, mainly turnovers? He does.
Is he the only traditional shooter on this roster? Obviously.

What does mastermind on our bench do?
10 minutes for Champagnie, 1-1 FG, +1.

Spurs as a team went 11-32, but it's fine, we don't need any 3pt shooters.

Champagnie was the biggest positive surprise this season, but Mitch managed to absolutely ruin him.
He's completely out of rythm now and which young player wouldn't be?
30mpg as a starter, had a 20 game stretch with 14ppg, 37% 3pt on 8 attempts after he figured his role out.
Gets benched, down to 21mpg, still at 38% 3pt, but Mitch Johnson has other plans.

Like how the fuck don't you call a single play for your only goddamn shooter?

#uncorkChamp

[John B]

Champ is a very good role player who can play great with better teammates around him. It’s not the same opportunity playing with the 2nd squad, worst he starts doing outside his comfort zone, resulting to bad shots and turnovers

[Raven]

castle ballhogging is a massive downgrade for him

[Pauleta14]

As hard it is to defend Mitch, I get it regarding Champ tbh...

He can do one thing at "elite" level but is below average or horrible in so many areas it's tough to leave him on the court. The guy can't even do an inbound pass ffs!!!

Like Sochan, he messes up so many plays bc of low IQ or court vision and never sees the easy/obvious passes (for Wemby or other player cutting in the paint for ex. He's not the only one)

He's a one trick pony like 90% of the roster but Spurs fans are so upset at Vassell that Champ looks better than he really is. Vassell is an idiot but so much more skilled, it's not even close really.

You have to be an alchemist to manage this roster if we're honest (Mitch still sucks)

[spurraider21]

our 36% shooting specialist

[Ice009]

I'd look at adding him to a trade if some team wants him to make a trade for a better player work, I think the Spurs should look at those options.

[ace3g]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
15m
Just In: The San Antonio Spurs will fully guarantee the $3 million salary of Julian Champagnie for the 2025-26 season, sources told Hoopshype
. Champagnie was one of 11 players to appear in all 82 games last season, shot 37.1% from 3-point range, and averaged 9.9 points per game.

[ismael-robert]

I'd look at adding him to a trade if some team wants him to make a trade for a better player work, I think the Spurs should look at those options.

Nba teams should look at trading players for better players....you're diabolical sir

[cutewizard]

If he improves defensively.....

Then, another 3 and D

[CGD]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
15m
Just In: The San Antonio Spurs will fully guarantee the $3 million salary of Julian Champagnie for the 2025-26 season, sources told Hoopshype
. Champagnie was one of 11 players to appear in all 82 games last season, shot 37.1% from 3-point range, and averaged 9.9 points per game.

One down, Fox and Sochan extensions to go.

Outside chance Barnes extends too?

[buttsR4rebounding]

They should extend Champ this year.

[exstatic]

They should extend Champ this year.

Nah. Just sign Justin n the cheap, and develop him.

[BackHome]

I am OK signing him to maybe a two year deal but he really needs to improve on the defensive side as he sometimes looks kinda lost out there. Hopefully Mitch can have a solid rotation down after 15 games and won’t follow Pop “Mad Scientist” schtick.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They should extend Champ this year.

They can’t. It’ll be next summer.

[Ice009]

I really like Champ, and I hope he can become an even better player. I did say I'd trade him in the right deal if it was needed to return a really good player, but otherwise, I hope he can develop further and become a great role player for the Spurs. He needs to keep his confidence on offense at all times, but also needs to stay 100% focused on the defensive side of the ball as he sometimes loses focus there. Hope he does well and has a great season.

[ambchang]

Will there be restrictions in extending champ when he’s eligible for one? Such as max increases and duration? With the way he’s playing I think he can get a decent $12m per type of contract.