Grades: Spurs @ Mavs - Feb. 23, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-mavericks-grades-60/

Keep those Ls coming, tbh.

[spurraider21]

gotta dock branham more for his defense tbh

unless he can even become average on that end, i still think his ideal role is combo guard off the bench

[DPG21920]

timvp - where are you at with Keldon as a player, part of the future and value around the league? Do you view him as a legit 20PPG scorer? Is he a top 3 option on a legit playoff team?

Can his playmaking and defense improve enough and be unlocked more to make another jump? General thoughts on him at the moment….

[Mr. Body]

Barlow - There's something here. His basketball instincts are pretty good, he just needs coaching. Mobility and size are good, effort is good.

Bassey - I like what we have here to build with. Maybe as the team gets better next year he can be activated more.

Branham - That finger roll showed why he's hard to stop, just great scoring skills. He's back to dying on screens again, though, like some prey animal encountering a wolf. I dislike his shitty effort on that end but the whole team has given up.

Wesley - Except for Wesley, who is actually trying on defense. This was the first game where I felt like he stopped thinking/wondering if he belonged and just got after it. No idea if he can last in this league, though. He's small and all over the place.

[KingKev]

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) - where are you at with Keldon as a player, part of the future and value around the league? Do you view him as a legit 20PPG scorer? Is he a top 3 option on a legit playoff team?

Can his playmaking and defense improve enough and be unlocked more to make another jump? General thoughts on him at the moment….

I’ll take this one….

NO

[spurraider21]

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) - where are you at with Keldon as a player, part of the future and value around the league? Do you view him as a legit 20PPG scorer? Is he a top 3 option on a legit playoff team?

Can his playmaking and defense improve enough and be unlocked more to make another jump? General thoughts on him at the moment….
i think he can be a top 3 scoring option but he probably shouldnt be your team's 3rd best player. think tobias harris

imo best play is to flip him in 2-3 years

[tonight...you]

timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) - where are you at with Keldon as a player, part of the future and value around the league? Do you view him as a legit 20PPG scorer? Is he a top 3 option on a legit playoff team?

Can his playmaking and defense improve enough and be unlocked more to make another jump? General thoughts on him at the moment….
You put a lot of stock in timvp .
How much does he affect your judgement?
I like him and think his evaluation is okay.
I think he has some guys he talks to. Pretty sure some gamesmanship remains in said talks.
But at the end of the day... Not sure how much to put in the bank.
Especially when it comes to player evaluation.

Not to say I don't appreciate everything he does. I do.
But just asking how much of his input affects your output.

[DPG21920]

You put a lot of stock in timvp .
How much does he affect your judgement?
I like him and think his evaluation is okay.
I think he has some guys he talks to. Pretty sure some gamesmanship remains in said talks.
But at the end of the day... Not sure how much to put in the bank.
Especially when it comes to player evaluation.

Not to say I don't appreciate everything he does. I do.
But just asking how much of his input affects your output.

Huh? I asked him a question :lol

I probably have disagreed with Timvp more than anyone on here a lot of the time. I have already stated my opinion on here regarding Keldon and others. I do think Keldon is good enough to be a top 3 player on a good team. My real question behind the question was his view on Keldons value around the league and future with the team…

I think the fact he showed this season he could truly create on his own to the tune of 20PPG is good. Sure, many will argue you give anyone enough shots on a bad team they will get 20PPG but I don’t think that’s true and when his 3Ball was working he was doing it at all 3 levels.

I think he needs to leap in vision/playmaking and obviously on defense to be a real winning impact player but if he were a 3rd option in a system that had some gravity off of him? Yea, I think he’s headed towards 3rd best player on a good team that when the defense is bent because the ball is swinging around and he gets to attack his defender off of that type of action? He will be damn effective.

[DPG21920]

i think he can be a top 3 scoring option but he probably shouldnt be your team's 3rd best player. think tobias harris

imo best play is to flip him in 2-3 years

I may be in minority but I think Tobias could definitely be 3rd best guy on a title team\]=[

[spurraider21]

I may be in minority but I think Tobias could definitely be 3rd best guy on a title team\]=[
if the gap between 2 and 3 is sufficient

[tonight...you]

Huh? I asked him a question :lol

I probably have disagreed with Timvp more than anyone on here a lot of the time. I have already stated my opinion on here regarding Keldon and others. I do think Keldon is good enough to be a top 3 player on a good team. My real question behind the question was his view on Keldons value around the league and future with the team…

I think the fact he showed this season he could truly create on his own to the tune of 20PPG is good. Sure, many will argue you give anyone enough shots on a bad team they will get 20PPG but I don’t think that’s true and when his 3Ball was working he was doing it at all 3 levels.

I think he needs to leap in vision/playmaking and obviously on defense to be a real winning impact player but if he were a 3rd option in a system that had some gravity off of him? Yea, I think he’s headed towards 3rd best player on a good team that when the defense is bent because the ball is swinging around and he gets to attack his defender off of that type of action? He will be damn effective.
And I just asked you a question, no emoji.
Appreciate the answer, although not answered directly.
I didn't ask your opinion, or what you thought, just how much do you appreciate timvp's thoughts.

[DPG21920]

And I just asked you a question, no emoji.
Appreciate the answer, although not answered directly.
I didn't ask your opinion, or what you thought, just how much do you appreciate timvp's thoughts.

You started with a statement though: “you put a lot of stock in timvp”. I appreciate his insights, especially with regards to FO going ons and league wide perspective and last few years he and I have been on similar wavelengths regarding team direction.

But ultimately I don’t factor my stuff on anyone else’s outside of stopping to reflect on their takes if they are really different than mine to see what maybe I’m missing.

I’d say the biggest things I lean timvp on are 1) college player evaluations/draft & 2) trades and market values

[tonight...you]

I appreciate his insights, especially with regards to FO going ons and league wide perspective and last few years he and I have been on similar wavelengths regarding team direction.

But ultimately I don’t factor my stuff on anyone else’s outside of stopping to reflect on their takes if they are really different than mine to see what maybe I’m missing.

I’d say the biggest things I lean timvp on are 1) college player evaluations/draft & 2) trades and market values

Mucho appreciatado mi amigo.
I can dig it.

[KingKev]

I may be in minority but I think Tobias could definitely be 3rd best guy on a title team\]=[

and contract aside Tobias Harris >>> Keldon Johnson although that is a good comparison.

[DPG21920]

if the gap between 2 and 3 is sufficient

For sure. Not all 3rd options are equal but also not everyone can be a legit 3rd option on a good team.

[Seventyniner]

I can see Keldon being the third-best player on a good team a la Richard Jefferson with the Nets. But a conference finals team, not a strong title contender.

Jefferson's inflated scoring average with the Bucks made it look like the Spurs made a much more impactful acquisition than he ended up being. Keldon could follow that path, though being a 20 point scorer in today's league is far easier than it was in 2008.

[DPG21920]

I can see Keldon being the third-best player on a good team a la Richard Jefferson with the Nets. But a conference finals team, not a strong title contender.

Jefferson's inflated scoring average with the Bucks made it look like the Spurs made a much more impactful acquisition than he ended up being. Keldon could follow that path, though being a 20 point scorer in today's league is far easier than it was in 2008.

Ya - I’m not focused too much on the points but I’m impressed with his ability to make things happen with literally zero gravity around him and having to handle the ball and get things done.

Him with some space and help and someone to get him easier looks? Definitely think there’s more to his game.