Amen Thompson - 2023 NBA Draft Prospect

[timvp]

Amen Thompson
https://i.imgur.com/5COBz8D.jpg

Full Scouting Report (https://www.spurstalk.com/amen-thompson-san-antonio-spurs-potential-draft/)

Height: 6-foot-7
Weight: 202 pounds
College: Overtime Elite
Position: PG/SG/SF
Draft Range: 2-7

Spurs Comparison: James White! plus playmaking plus basketball IQ plus actual basketball talent

Strengths: Elite athleticism, natural playmaking ability, processing speed, court vision

Weaknesses: Shooting outside of 15 feet, previous competition level, defensive fundamentals

Full Scouting Report (https://www.spurstalk.com/amen-thompson-san-antonio-spurs-potential-draft/)

1qDjB3DVzxw

[mo7888]

Good stuff... I have a question though... do you think that shot is fixable?

[The Truth #6]

For the moment I’m adding the kool aid powder to water and enjoying a refreshing glass. So I’m open to the risk of drafting Amen. Scoot seems more accomplished, so to speak, but for all the talk we do lauding the Spurs development success, it seems like we should double down and give Amen a chance. What does Scoot do that is much better, other than shoot less poorly?

Amen has length, insane athleticism, good bbiq, great passing and processing—I don’t see how we wouldn’t love to get him with our team and develop him. To me, the biggest issue is not his caveman shooting mechanics but uncertainty about his work ethic. If he isn’t a gym rat or if he comes off as lazy, then, no, not worth it. But if he’s just been poorly coached in a joke league, then I think he’s worth considering, even over Scoot.

Just speculating. I’ll probably change mind next week. But the opportunity seems enticing.

[Uriel]

I think he’s the most likely pick, just based on the fact that he could go anywhere from 2-4 and our pick can be anything from 1-6.

[Mr. Body]

Swing questions: does he actually have good processing and IQ, is he actually a good passer, or was he playing against players 2-4 years younger in a playground league?

[BacktoBasics]

I know people love to bitch about Millers tourney but teams will regret taking Amen ahead of Miller if that happens. It was a rough ending for Miller but best he had those tribulations now than in the middle of his career like Morant. I see Miller as considerably better than Amen.

Amen’s floor is probably the lowest of all the top prospects.

[spurraider21]

Good stuff... I have a question though... do you think that shot is fixable?
theres no fixing his shot. he has to relearn how to shoot basically from the ground up

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I know people love to bitch about Millers tourney but teams will regret taking Amen ahead of Miller if that happens. It was a rough ending for Miller but best he had those tribulations now than in the middle of his career like Morant. I see Miller as considerably better than Amen.

Amen’s floor is probably the lowest of all the top prospects.

I probably need to research Miller more. I only started paying close attention to him the last two months of the college season and during the tourney. Miller's steadiness says "Spurs". It's too bad about his off the court stuff because I agree he'd probably be the safest pick.

Amen could be a superstar but he could also be a waste of a top 4 pick. Tough to pull that trigger if you're in the draft room I bet.

[LeBowen]

I hate reading all the scouting reports. :rollin

Wemby is a KD/Giannis hybrid, Scoot is a high IQ Westbrook, Amen is apparently already the fastest basketball player in the world and Miller is Pg13 v2.

Seems like 2nd to 4th pick will be a toss up, way too close for mere mortals to call without seeing extensive workouts and background scouting.
Hopefully PATFO gets it right.

[heyheymymy]

any link between Spurs just adding a new shooting coach and Spurs considering a Thompson twin or Scoot? /s

[offset formation]

Good stuff... I have a question though... do you think that shot is fixable?

No more than Scoots. But he's 6'7" and quicker. If it's a choice between Amen and Scoot, then hallelujah it is.

[spurraider21]

scoot's not a good shooter by any stretch but he's miles ahead of Amen. i think scoot can fix his shot to become at least a mediocre/passable shooter, whereas amen has to burn his down and build it from the ground up

[rjv]

some really important visits (workouts) coming up after the lottery if the spurs land between 2-7.

[scott]

Spurs Comparison: James White! plus playmaking plus basketball IQ plus actual basketball talent



Had to look up wtf this was, tbqh. 6 games plaed in 06-07, at least I forgive myself for not remembering.

[exstatic]

any link between Spurs just adding a new shooting coach and Spurs considering a Thompson twin or Scoot? /s

Could just be for Jeremy.

[TD 21]

Virtually every wing with impressive physical tools and a modicum of skill gets fetishized nowadays (which is funny considering the best players in the league are bigs).

Stranger things have happened, but I don't see superstar potential. I see Iguodala potential, aka fringe/complementary star.

[Mr. Body]

Virtually every wing with impressive physical tools and a modicum of skill gets fetishized nowadays (which is funny considering the best players in the league are bigs).

Stranger things have happened, but I don't see superstar potential. I see Iguodala potential, aka fringe/complementary star.

Somehow "great physical ability" has become "incredible ceiling as potential future superstar."

Those aren't the same categories.

[duncan2150]

Swing questions: does he actually have good processing and IQ, is he actually a good passer, or was he playing against players 2-4 years younger in a playground league?

Imo he's a good to really good passer with a good IQ but playing in OTE make it easy for sure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPGAz4pQMQ
starts at 3'30 for the passing game

[duncan2150]

No more than Scoots. But he's 6'7" and quicker. If it's a choice between Amen and Scoot, then hallelujah it is.

scoot's shoot is nowhere near amen's,who has an awful one.

[offset formation]

quite frankly, I'm just not blown away by any of the guys 2-7 or 8 that would ordinarily be easy picks. Each one of the widely talked about players has AT LEAST one major flaw.

Part of the reason I'm high on Coulibaly. Dude is like an developmental iceberg where it seems 90% of his game is just under the surface.

His game is JUST starting to blow up. Look at his progression. Look at his PER 36. 18.2PPG. 2 5 Steals 53% FG 34% 3 pt. and 61% TS.

And improving. Dude has hops that don't stop. And plays defense.

I'd take him #2.

[offset formation]

scoot's shoot is nowhere near amen's,who has an awful one.

If you see my post immediately above, I'm merely saying I'd take Amen over Scoot. I don't LOVE either one quite frankly. I think Blake Wesley has the potential to have a better career than either of them. But to be clear, neither Scoot nor Amen are good shooters, especially beyond 18 feet. Both have major flaws. Multiple flaws. Main reason I'd take Amen is merely because of size.

[JPB]

Had to look up wtf this was, tbqh. 6 games plaed in 06-07, at least I forgive myself for not remembering.

You don't remember James White!

I mean, James White!

[offset formation]

Also, I've learned my lesson about drafting a kid and hoping he'll develop the potential or develop a desire to play defense. I tried to hold out hope for Luka and Lonnie. I wanted it more for them than they did. I see that same thing in Scoot's defense and Amen's shot.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean if we had Chip I would feel more confident about this pick. I think OKC should draft him tbh. That would be a nasty line up they have if they can teach him to shoot.

I like athleticism and playmaking and the size. But you HAVE to learn how to shoot in todays game. This isn’t the 90s anymore. The dude can’t even be a bench player if he can’t shoot. The problem with the pick is if he doesn’t learn to shoot then we have no place for him on the team. This is a pick we make if Pop stick around for 3 more years.

But yeah I want Miller. After Wemby of course

[JPB]

quite frankly, I'm just not blown away by any of the guys 2-7 or 8 that would ordinarily be easy picks. Each one of the widely talked about players has AT LEAST one major flaw.

Part of the reason I'm high on Coulibaly. Dude is like an developmental iceberg where it seems 90% of his game is just under the surface.

His game is JUST starting to blow up. Look at his progression. Look at his PER 36. 18.2PPG. 2 5 Steals 53% FG 34% 3 pt. and 61% TS.

And improving. Dude has hops that don't stop. And plays defense.

I'd take him #2.

Not sure where he'll land, but I get your point tbh. When you see the prospect pool, and Bilal's progression vs pro, adult competition, you're really intrigued. He can shoot the 3 (mostly catch and shoot so far but there's def room for more), he's super fast on fast break, can finish at the rim, good defensive instincts, showed flashes of playmaking skills... Show me other guys in that draft who can say better, other than because they're Coolege players. Would Bilal come from the NCAA, he would probalby in the top 10 or even top 5 convo.

If spurs miss on Wemby, I wouldn't be disappointed they pick him. Prolly not a superstar but potentially a really solid 2 way guy.

[mo7888]

Not sure where he'll land, but I get your point tbh. When you see the prospect pool, and Bilal's progression vs pro, adult competition, you're really intrigued. He can shoot the 3 (mostly catch and shoot so far but there's def room for more), he's super fast on fast break, can finish at the rim, good defensive instincts, showed flashes of playmaking skills... Show me other guys in that draft who can say better, other than because they're Coolege players. Would Bilal come from the NCAA, he would probalby in the top 10 or even top 5 convo.

If spurs miss on Wemby, I wouldn't be disappointed they pick him. Prolly not a superstar but potentially a really solid 2 way guy.

Bilal Coulibaly is a nice prospect, but it's hard to believe ST is seriously discussing picking him with a top 7 pick....

[Mr. Body]

Imo he's a good to really good passer with a good IQ but playing in OTE make it easy for sure.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TPGAz4pQMQ
starts at 3'30 for the passing game

The stuff around 15:00, the defense stuff, reminds me a lot of clips of Shaeden Sharpe in high school. Just awful on defense. No discipline, ball-watching, swiping, getting out of position. That's rough. He's going to be a total mess on the defensive side.

[duncan2150]

The stuff around 15:00, the defense stuff, reminds me a lot of clips of Shaeden Sharpe in high school. Just awful on defense. No discipline, ball-watching, swiping, getting out of position. That's rough. He's going to be a total mess on the defensive side.

his D and his shoot are big concerns, if he doesn't improve i have hard time seeing him in the top 3

[offset formation]

Not sure where he'll land, but I get your point tbh. When you see the prospect pool, and Bilal's progression vs pro, adult competition, you're really intrigued. He can shoot the 3 (mostly catch and shoot so far but there's def room for more), he's super fast on fast break, can finish at the rim, good defensive instincts, showed flashes of playmaking skills... Show me other guys in that draft who can say better, other than because they're Coolege players. Would Bilal come from the NCAA, he would probalby in the top 10 or even top 5 convo.

If spurs miss on Wemby, I wouldn't be disappointed they pick him. Prolly not a superstar but potentially a really solid 2 way guy.

Precisely. I feel like with him you're getting a solid 2 way at worst. I don't know if there's another player that you can say that about on the top part of this draft which is how I keep gravitating his way. Every player has major question marks.

That and he's 18. And clearly getting better rather rapidly so you just don't know where his ceiling ultimately is.

[baseline bum]

Had to look up wtf this was, tbqh. 6 games plaed in 06-07, at least I forgive myself for not remembering.

Surprised you don't remember him, he might be the best dunker to ever live. He could windmill from the FT line, two handed FT line dunks, I saw him do between the legs from the FT line, and he was maybe the most famous player not in the NBA for a lot of the 2000s. It's too bad he never got into an NBA dunk contest until he was past 30 and long past his physical prime. Anyways it's not a very flattering comparison since White was an ungodly athlete, unparalleled even in the NBA, but not much of a basketball player.

[offset formation]

Bilal Coulibaly is a nice prospect, but it's hard to believe ST is seriously discussing picking him with a top 7 pick....

I am. But I'm not ST. Mind dismissing him on his stats though rather than superficially looking down on those that like his upside?? Because I guarantee you that I can make the case that he's better than whomever you place him against.

[Mr. Body]

his D and his shoot are big concerns, if he doesn't improve i have hard time seeing him in the top 3

I think he'll definitely go top 5 no matter what. I'd be surprised.

[Mr. Body]

Surprised you don't remember him, he might be the best dunker to ever live. He could windmill from the FT line, two handed FT line dunks, I saw him do between the legs from the FT line, and he was maybe the most famous player not in the NBA for a lot of the 2000s. It's too bad he never got into an NBA dunk contest until he was past 30 and long past his physical prime. Anyways it's not a very flattering comparison since White was an ungodly athlete, unparalleled even in the NBA, but not much of a basketball player.

It was an exciting time because, iirc, we badly badly badly needed a wing at the time. I think we needed players, period. Indiana cut him for some strange reason and I remember being pumped to pick him up. Just didn't have anything.

[baseline bum]

It was an exciting time because, iirc, we badly badly badly needed a wing at the time. I think we needed players, period. Indiana cut him for some strange reason and I remember being pumped to pick him up. Just didn't have anything.

Yeah the whole board was dying for him to be successful here. I wanted him to stick around badly too, no one would have called the Spurs boring with James Flight White on the team if he could have really played at the NBA level. Still had a decent career overseas at least though I think.

[JPB]

Bilal Coulibaly is a nice prospect, but it's hard to believe ST is seriously discussing picking him with a top 7 pick....

Again, show me what The Thompson twins, Whitmore or even Miller have over him? He's not in that convo only because he's not an NCAA, G league or OTE guy and the others have been hyped for 1 year as the shit, which they didn't prove on the floor. Amen can't shoot for his life and he's suspect in defense, while Bilal is a 37% 3PT shooter this year with great defensive IQ and reading. What objectively makes the former so much more evident than the later in the top 7, expect the fact we've been fed that for months? Just because Amen is physical and we pray he'll develop somehow a shoot in a 3pt era? Well, Bilal is really athletic and already showed he can shoot.

As previously said, some guys picked 15 or under this year may end up as better players than top 7 guys... Bilal may be one of those 15 or under guys.

[CGD]

I think this is the guy, as of now.

That jumper look terrible tho. Not Michael Gilgrest level bad but probably Justise Winslow bad.

[CGD]

Again, show me what The Thompson twins, Whitmore or even Miller have over him? He's not in that convo only because he's not an NCAA, G league or OTE guy and the others have been hyped for 2 years as the shit, which they didn't prove on the floor. Amen can't shoot for his life and he's suspect in defense, while Bilal is a 37% 3PT, with great defensive IQ and reading. What objectively makes the former so much more evident than the later in the top 7, expect the fact we've been fed that for months?

As previously said, some guys picked 15 or under this year may end up as better players than top 7 guys... Bilal may be one of those 15 or under guys.

I have a feeling this guy will go way higher than he should because of the Jaylen William effect from this past draft.

[baseline bum]

I think this is the guy, as of now.

That jumper look terrible tho. Not Michael Gilgrest level bad but probably Justise Winslow bad.

Well we have seen what this franchise has done with Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker when they had horrendous shooting form coming here, so if they think Thompson has the work ethic of Leonard and Parker I could see them taking the chance. What they did with Sochan in just a couple of months was unreal this year.

[PhantomDashCam]

One detail not discussed is that he apparently rebuilt his shot going into this second year too with (thus far) poor results.
I like that at least he's willing to do that but it's moot if he's unable to adhere to such a change with the constant troughs likely to come.

IMHO, He's one of the hardest prospects to project in the history of NBA drafts. NBA GMs have their work cut out for themselves this year, more so than an any recent memory.

[Ice009]

I think this is the guy, as of now.

That jumper look terrible tho. Not Michael Gilgrest level bad but probably Justise Winslow bad.

You mean Michael Kidd-Gilchrist? I forgot all about him. I assume he's not even in the NBA anymore? Washed out already? I think I remember early Kawhi comparisons to Kidd-Gilchrist when Kawhi was first drafted, but just goes to show you, if you can't shoot and have that horrible of a shot, that it can be disastrous for a promising NBA career. Teams will overlook that, but after a while, you're going to wash out if you don't learn to shoot.

[JPB]

I have a feeling this guy will go way higher than he should because of the Jaylen William effect from this past draft.

On another note, spurs will have the insight they need about Bilal (game and personality) thanks to Bobo.

[CGD]

You mean Michael Kidd-Gilchrist? I forgot all about him. I assume he's not even in the NBA anymore? Washed out already? I think I remember early Kawhi comparisons to Kidd-Gilchrist, but just goes to show you, if you can't shoot and have that horrible of a shot, that can be disastrous for a promising NBA career. Teams will overlook that, but after a while, you're going to wash out if you don't learn to shoot.

Yeah I butchered the name. That was the worst jump shot I’ve ever seen in my life.
Can’t believe dude was picked second.

[barakz21]

So.. assuming we end up picking Amen or Scoot, how does each one’s shot compare to pre-Chip TP’s shot? I remember TP’s looking decent, but my eyes could’ve been playing tricks on me, as HD was not a
thing during those years. Once Chip came aboard, his numbers actually got a lot better due to toning down the threes and actually improving his shot.

[barakz21]

Surprised you don't remember him, he might be the best dunker to ever live. He could windmill from the FT line, two handed FT line dunks, I saw him do between the legs from the FT line, and he was maybe the most famous player not in the NBA for a lot of the 2000s. It's too bad he never got into an NBA dunk contest until he was past 30 and long past his physical prime. Anyways it's not a very flattering comparison since White was an ungodly athlete, unparalleled even in the NBA, but not much of a basketball player.

Ha! That’s a name I haven’t seen in soooo many years. I remember making sure he was in my rotations playing 2k7. Safe to say he did not work out, IRL and in the video games lol.

Off topic, but you’d think I’d learn my lesson. I did the same exact thing with Malik Hairston on 2k9 or 10 I think.

[mo7888]

So.. assuming we end up picking Amen or Scoot, how does each one’s shot compare to pre-Chip TP’s shot? I remember

Scoots is better...Amen's is worse..

[JPB]

Precisely. I feel like with him you're getting a solid 2 way at worst. I don't know if there's another player that you can say that about on the top part of this draft which is how I keep gravitating his way. Every player has major question marks.

That and he's 18. And clearly getting better rather rapidly so you just don't know where his ceiling ultimately is.

Yeah, that's another thing that really got him growing in my mind, the fact he quickly showed so much improvement at 18 this season (19 in july) with solid fundamentals and clearly exposing his potential, contrary to the twins who are 20 (18 months older) and besides their physcial ablilities only showed flaws and shortcomings in a weaker competition. You can clearly see Bilal's potential and a real possibility he reaches it. You're not sure of any with the twins.

So yeah, no real tangible elements to affirm they belong more in the top 7 than bilal to me.

[Seventyniner]

You mean Michael Kidd-Gilchrist? I forgot all about him. I assume he's not even in the NBA anymore? Washed out already? I think I remember early Kawhi comparisons to Kidd-Gilchrist, but just goes to show you, if you can't shoot and have that horrible of a shot, that can be disastrous for a promising NBA career. Teams will overlook that, but after a while, you're going to wash out if you don't learn to shoot.

This was a meme for a while.

https://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/bil-mkg-nba.jpg

[Ice009]

This was a meme for a while.

https://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/bil-mkg-nba.jpg

Whoa, that's even worse than I remember. Yowzah!

[John B]

Athletic who can facilitate but poor outside shooter. Isn’t that Demar?? Geez :(

[dbestpro]

In today's NBA you must be able to shoot first and ask questions later . Pass.

[CGD]

This was a meme for a while.

https://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/bil-mkg-nba.jpg

Yikes !!

That shot form committed all sorts of atrocities against the game of basketball.

[Ice009]

I had a look a MKG's FG% and it's actually not too bad at 47%. I am guessing he got all his points inside the paint. His 3P%, though, was about 27% on average, so yeah, this guy couldn't shoot at all.
Having said that, whoever didn't correct his shot when he was younger should be ashamed of themselves letting him shoot with that form.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Amen White!

[John B]

James White who? :lol

[Ariel]

I'm extremely skeptical of the Thompsons, because of this:

There’s little to no proof that Thompson will ever be able to shoot a basketball outside of 15 feet. He’s a poor three-point shooter even though he was rarely guarded on jumpers in the Overtime Elite. His free throw shooting is also poor.

Looking at his form, Thompson has a lot of work to do. None of his shots utilize the same mechanics, so he’s likely going to have to start over and rebuild his shot from the ground up.
and this:

The other major question mark that is hovering over his head is the Overtime Elite itself. It’s very difficult to figure out his potential due to the competition level he has faced. The 20-year-old Thompson twins were easily the best players in the league — and they often went up against overmatched high school players.
All in all, I can't get my head around this:

A bad shooting perimeter player who hasn’t faced much real competition sounds like a risky prospect in theory. In reality, that’s an undeniable fact. Thompson could be a franchise player but he could also be out of the league by the end of his rookie contract.

the downsides of picking him are frightening. I don’t remember the last top five pick who has such a clear and obvious path to being a bust. Being a non-shooter and playing in a league that has an unproven competition level sounds like the recipe for a cautionary tale in the making.
The only caveat I will concede is this:

One thing to note, though, is that the Spurs probably have a better read on the Overtime Elite than any other team in the league due to Dominic Barlow. Barlow is the only NBA player to come out of the Overtime Elite, so it’s possible that San Antonio has the inside track on being able to translate Thompson’s production to the next level.
The Spurs have more information than any of us do, so obviously they're in a much more advantageous position to make their assessment. If we fall down to 6 or 7 and all of Wemby, Scoot, Brandon Miller, Cam Whitmore and Taylor Hendricks are gone, you were dealt a bad hand and, though I'd rather trade back (if we can get Anthony Black or Keyonte George + something) or away (say for an interesting prospect or two, or really good picks), I'd understand taking your chances with him over Jarace Walker (I'm not super fond of him) or Anthony Black (whom I'd prefer but yes, his ceiling isn't superstar clearly). But if any of those guys are there, I'd sleep much better going with them instead.

[Mr. Body]

It's unbelievable how bad OTE is. Even watching highlights the ridiculous defense pops out at you. Even the size of the other players. They look like scrubs at a YMCA.

The Scoot thread had a lot of back-and-forth, but this one seems dead. Very few fans here are enamored of this guy. Out of high school, he received some college interest. ESPN had him as a 5-star, Rivals as a 4-star. Seems like he got offered by KS, AL, and a few smaller Florida schools.

Subsequently, two years at OTE. First year, middling. Second year, better but not even dominant against players 2-4 years younger, many of whom are actually still in high school (!) and mostly 3-star at best.

Some GM is going to take this guy and really regret it.

[The Truth #6]

For me, it’s definitely a difficult draft to get a handle on. Outside Wemby, lots of uncertainty.

[exstatic]

It's unbelievable how bad OTE is. Even watching highlights the ridiculous defense pops out at you. Even the size of the other players. They look like scrubs at a YMCA.

The Scoot thread had a lot of back-and-forth, but this one seems dead. Very few fans here are enamored of this guy. Out of high school, he received some college interest. ESPN had him as a 5-star, Rivals as a 4-star. Seems like he got offered by KS, AL, and a few smaller Florida schools.

Subsequently, two years at OTE. First year, middling. Second year, better but not even dominant against players 2-4 years younger, many of whom are actually still in high school (!) and mostly 3-star at best.

Some GM is going to take this guy and really regret it.

The twins are why I’m interested in trading back if we don’t get Wemby. Two fool GMs are going to take them, leaving players of higher value at 5-7.

[offset formation]

The twins are why I’m interested in trading back if we don’t get Wemby. Two fool GMs are going to take them, leaving players of higher value at 5-7.

Yup. If we don't get Wemby and we think we can get a solid two way player (like Bilal, IMO) at 8 or 9, then do it. Because I'm of the opinion that every top player being talked about comes with a serious hiccup in their game (except Bilal).

[rascal]

Yup. If we don't get Wemby and we think we can get a solid two way player (like Bilal, IMO) at 8 or 9, then do it. Because I'm of the opinion that every top player being talked about comes with a serious hiccup in their game (except Bilal).

Bilal doesn't look that great. Looks weaker than Cam, doesn't have the power that Cam has, or the quickness/power that the Twins and Scoot have . He doesn't have the star upside that the guys I mentioned have.
Spurs have a team full of role players, non all star talents. Don't try to outsmart what the consensus is.

Spurs need to swing for the highest upside players with intangible athleticism. Players who they feel they can work with to get the most out of their skills.

[offset formation]

Bilal doesn't look that great. Looks weaker than Cam, doesn't have the power that Cam has, or the quickness/power that the Twins and Scoot have . He doesn't have the star upside that the guys I mentioned have.
Spurs have a team full of role players, non all star talents. Don't try to outsmart what the consensus is.

Spurs need to swing for the highest upside players with intangible athleticism. Players who they feel they can work with to get the most out of their skills.

I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you've said (aside from Bilal not having the same quickness as TT and Scoot. Few do. Few have their other problems too). I wouldn't draft those guys if my job depended on it.

I mean have you even looked at Bilal's tape...even ONCE?

Sports Illustrated lists him as having "explosive leaping ability off both one and two feet" and who is able to play "above the rim with relative ease." So not quite sure like at all where you conclude he doesn't have the star upside?? He's athletic as furk. Just as much as any of the top guys you've been told are better.

Cam's per 36 is not as good as Bilal's. Bilal is a better on ball defender (more steals per 36 than OG Anunoby who led the NBA, lol). He's a slightly better FT shooter, similar 3 pt shooter. Etc.

So you're telling me in all seriousness that Bilal "doesn't look that great" even though he's a superb athlete, better defender than probably anyone in the draft, is also 18, played against better competition that Scoot and TTs, and listen to this part carefully...whose game got tremendously better from his 2022 season to his 2023 season?

Now, I'll give you Cam is a good looking player, and I'd take him way ahead of those other cats, but still...

I just hope that Brian Wright did his homework better than what you just did with this, "the quickness/power that the Twins and Scoot have" (as though they have no gaping holes elsewhere) or we'll end up with a player that comes in with serious question marks.

One positive of this fighting about the guys below Wembanyama is that I've 100% given up on us getting #1 overall so that when we do it'll be like Christmas morning. And if we don't, I'll be prepared to laugh at who we pick because everyone is so ready to write off a better player.

[rascal]

I wholeheartedly disagree with everything you've said (aside from Bilal not having the same quickness as TT and Scoot. Few do. Few have their other problems too). I wouldn't draft those guys if my job depended on it.

I mean have you even looked at Bilal's tape...even ONCE?

Sports Illustrated lists him as having "explosive leaping ability off both one and two feet" and who is able to play "above the rim with relative ease." So not quite sure like at all where you conclude he doesn't have the star upside?? He's athletic as furk. Just as much as any of the top guys you've been told are better.

Cam's per 36 is not as good as Bilal's. Bilal is a better on ball defender (more steals per 36 than OG Anunoby who led the NBA, lol). He's a slightly better FT shooter, similar 3 pt shooter. Etc.

So you're telling me in all seriousness that Bilal "doesn't look that great" even though he's a superb athlete, better defender than probably anyone in the draft, is also 18, played against better competition that Scoot and TTs, and listen to this part carefully...whose game got tremendously better from his 2022 season to his 2023 season?

Now, I'll give you Cam is a good looking player, and I'd take him way ahead of those other cats, but still...

I just hope that Brian Wright did his homework better than what you just did with this, "the quickness/power that the Twins and Scoot have" (as though they have no gaping holes elsewhere) or we'll end up with a player that comes in with serious question marks.

One positive of this fighting about the guys below Wembanyama is that I've 100% given up on us getting #1 overall so that when we do it'll be like Christmas morning. And if we don't, I'll be prepared to laugh at who we pick because everyone is so ready to write off a better player.

Of course I've watched his tape and he doesn't look as good as the guys I mentioned in comparison for the reasons I've stated.

Everyone can go watch his tape and make their own conclusions and comparisons with Cam, Scoot and the Thompsons.
I'll take any of those guys over Bilal.

[offset formation]

Of course I've watched his tape and he doesn't look as good as the guys I mentioned in comparison for the reasons I've stated.

Everyone can go watch his tape and make their own conclusions and comparisons with Cam, Scoot and the Thompsons.
I'll take any of those guys over Bilal.

That's the beauty of a sports message board: we are both more than able to post our opinions and have them hang on here for eternity for any and all future members to roast us for.

[J_Paco]

I had a look a MKG's FG% and it's actually not too bad at 47%. I am guessing he got all his points inside the paint. His 3P%, though, was about 27% on average, so yeah, this guy couldn't shoot at all.
Having said that, whoever didn't correct his shot when he was younger should be ashamed of themselves letting him shoot with that form.

He broke his arm or dislocated his elbow at a young age, thus leading to him shooting in that very awkward/unnatural manner.

[heyheymymy]

lol forgot about MKG and that wonky release

[Mr. Body]

There was that guy Ronnie Brewer I think who also had a weird jumpshot because of a childhood broken arm.

[J_Paco]

As intriguing as prospect and athlete Amen is, the guy has too many serious warts (and question marks) for me to want the Spurs to draft him top 3.

If we fall out of the top three, then sure take a huge gamble on the biggest boom or bust prospect. Shit, I would actually take his brother before Amen if we land the 3rd pick, since he has better jumper and more "intangibles" than Amen.

[The Truth #6]

I totally get hesitation towards Amen in the top 3. Though I’m leaning into it, I recognize it could be a disaster. So I’m curious for those who want to stay away from Amen and Scoot if we are at 2 or 3, then who is your choice? Meaning, I get he has red flags, and it’s easy to critique, but who is your pick then?

[duncan2150]

I totally get hesitation towards Amen in the top 3. Though I’m leaning into it, I recognize it could be a disaster. So I’m curious for those who want to stay away from Amen and Scoot if we are at 2 or 3, then who is your choice? Meaning, I get he has red flags, and it’s easy to critique, but who is your pick then?

Yes it would be interesting to have some choices if we pick 2 or 3 without the offers to trading back, personnaly i have the same top 3 as the consensus with wemby scooy and miller.

[Ariel]

I totally get hesitation towards Amen in the top 3. Though I’m leaning into it, I recognize it could be a disaster. So I’m curious for those who want to stay away from Amen and Scoot if we are at 2 or 3, then who is your choice? Meaning, I get he has red flags, and it’s easy to critique, but who is your pick then?
My board is Wemby, Scoot, Miller, Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendricks, Anthony Black. Any of those I'm comfortable with.
As for Scoot, it isn't that I think he's a bust: on the contrary, I think his floor is at the very least good NBA starter, with flashy stat padder making a couple All Star games being definitely possible. But his archetype requires him to make great leaps in a few key areas to be a true difference maker (mainly shooting from 3 but also being a more efficient finisher at the basket), and if the ultimate goal is to put together a winning team, if a good offer that gets you Cam Whitmore or Taylor Hendricks + other valuable assets is on the table I think that warrants serious consideration. I'll take him if that's not a possibility though, unlike the Thompsons that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole (unless picking 7 and all of them gone... then whatever).

[Degoat]

So if the spurs land a top 3 pick, Obviously it’s Wemby, Scoot, Miller. If we land anywhere between 4-7, it could be any sort of possibilities but not gonna find a prospect with a higher ceiling then Amen Imo

[exstatic]

So if the spurs land a top 3 pick, Obviously it’s Wemby, Scoot, Miller. If we land anywhere between 4-7, it could be any sort of possibilities but not gonna find a prospect with a higher ceiling then Amen Imo

His floor is scary low, like out of the league in 2-3 years if he was just beating up on 15 YOs.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

if spurs don't get #1, i'm happy with them trading back

[rascal]

So if the spurs land a top 3 pick, Obviously it’s Wemby, Scoot, Miller. If we land anywhere between 4-7, it could be any sort of possibilities but not gonna find a prospect with a higher ceiling then Amen Imo

The Spurs won't draft Miller.

Top 3 Wemby, Scoot and Amen Thompson

[The Truth #6]

My board is Wemby, Scoot, Miller, Cam Whitmore, Taylor Hendricks, Anthony Black. Any of those I'm comfortable with.
As for Scoot, it isn't that I think he's a bust: on the contrary, I think his floor is at the very least good NBA starter, with flashy stat padder making a couple All Star games being definitely possible. But his archetype requires him to make great leaps in a few key areas to be a true difference maker (mainly shooting from 3 but also being a more efficient finisher at the basket), and if the ultimate goal is to put together a winning team, if a good offer that gets you Cam Whitmore or Taylor Hendricks + other valuable assets is on the table I think that warrants serious consideration. I'll take him if that's not a possibility though, unlike the Thompsons that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole (unless picking 7 and all of them gone... then whatever).

Yeah, that’s a fair take. If they don’t want anything to do with Miller (very possible) then it sort of puts Cam higher up as a possibility for us, going by your board. Cam has less risk of falling out of the league but concerning that he couldn’t get his team into the tournament, and seems to play with a style that doesn’t include much passing or team oriented play. I think of him as our pick with the third pick potentially and then go back to pondering a home run swing with Amen. To me it’s a challenging draft.

[barakz21]

I already had my mind made up that were very likely getting Miller, but that was before the NCAA tournament. Was there any top 3 pick who was highly touted in college but struggled in the tournament BUT turned out ok, career wise? I ask because as someone who doesn’t follow college ball, I admittedly know nothing about these kids.

[Chinook]

His floor is scary low, like out of the league in 2-3 years if he was just beating up on 15 YOs.

So I don't mean this as an attack or a gotcha, but do you think your views on drafting for ceiling have changed since 2020? You seemed completely willing to accept a low floor back then with a guy like Poke. Do you think Poke had a higher floor or ceiling than Thompson does now? Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, so I'm not saying he does or doesn't. But I feel like of all people who would advocate for taking a chance that you'd be up there.

I feel like a lot of posters are scared of messing this pick up. To me, if they mess it up, they'll get another high pick next year anyway. Some seem to believe that this is a rare event the Spurs have to get right. It probably is the start of a few high picks the team will get, and they don't have to hit on all of them. In my opinion, they just need to do the best they can and adjust to whatever happens.

[Dejounte]

So I don't mean this as an attack or a gotcha, but do you think your views on drafting for ceiling have changed since 2020? You seemed completely willing to accept a low floor back then with a guy like Poke. Do you think Poke had a higher floor or ceiling than Thompson does now? Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, so I'm not saying he does or doesn't. But I feel like of all people who would advocate for taking a chance that you'd be up there.

I feel like a lot of posters are scared of messing this pick up. To me, if they mess it up, they'll get another high pick next year anyway. Some seem to believe that this is a rare event the Spurs have to get right. It probably is the start of a few high picks the team will get, and they don't have to hit on all of them. In my opinion, they just need to do the best they can and adjust to whatever happens.

Seriously, I think the whole “I’d rather play it safe with xyz player than take a chance on abc player who I think has a low chance of succeeding anyway” is a guise for “i don’t like that player and the stats I cherry picked for him so I’m going to make up excuses why he wouldn’t be a good pick”.

[offset formation]

Seriously, I think the whole “I’d rather play it safe with xyz player than take a chance on abc player who I think has a low chance of succeeding anyway” is a guise for “i don’t like that player and the stats I cherry picked for him so I’m going to make up excuses why he wouldn’t be a good pick”.

Which player are you suggesting we take if we get #2?

[BacktoBasics]

I already had my mind made up that were very likely getting Miller, but that was before the NCAA tournament. Was there any top 3 pick who was highly touted in college but struggled in the tournament BUT turned out ok, career wise? I ask because as someone who doesn’t follow college ball, I admittedly know nothing about these kids.

I think we need to take that tourney with a grain of salt. He was under death threats, coming off an awful off the court situation compounded by being completely tone deaf over his warm up routine. He was injured and fighting through it. His teammates played awful... to be expected with all the distractions. I'm not making excuses about his off the court issues but better that happen now than in his prime like Morant.

The last game of the tourney he came out after halftime and played really good for those first 5 minutes. You could see he was trying to respond. He got his teammates involved and looked like a really great player in the making.

I think a fresh start in another city is exactly what he needs. I wasn't all that enamored with him early on but I see a really good player here. If anyone takes him after 4 they'll regret not taking him at 3... maybe even at 2.

[exstatic]

Yeah, that’s a fair take. If they don’t want anything to do with Miller (very possible) then it sort of puts Cam higher up as a possibility for us, going by your board. Cam has less risk of falling out of the league but concerning that he couldn’t get his team into the tournament, and seems to play with a style that doesn’t include much passing or team oriented play. I think of him as our pick with the third pick potentially and then go back to pondering a home run swing with Amen. To me it’s a challenging draft.

The last PF high lottery pick with a fractional asst/TO ratio was Patrick Williams, and he’s been a huge disappointment as a former #4 overall. It’s why Cam isn’t high up on my board.

[couchman]

Wemby and Scoot are the obvious 1,2.
After that I am in favor of swinging forupside, however I DON’T want Whitmore.
Today’s NBA requires that everyone can pass the ball adequately if you’re going to run a good offense.

[baseline bum]

I feel like a lot of posters are scared of messing this pick up. To me, if they mess it up, they'll get another high pick next year anyway. Some seem to believe that this is a rare event the Spurs have to get right. It probably is the start of a few high picks the team will get, and they don't have to hit on all of them. In my opinion, they just need to do the best they can and adjust to whatever happens.

I don't know why posters here seem to think this is just one off year as if this team tried they would have won 38 games and that they intentionally dropped to 22 wins only for that 14% chance at Wembanyama.

[Ariel]

Seriously, I think the whole “I’d rather play it safe with xyz player than take a chance on abc player who I think has a low chance of succeeding anyway” is a guise for “i don’t like that player and the stats I cherry picked for him so I’m going to make up excuses why he wouldn’t be a good pick”.
What would be an example of that? There may be a case here and there, but I don't think that's the gripe with any of the most talked about prospects here, the concerns are actually pretty objective and well documented with the Thompsons, Scoot, Miller, Cam Whitmore, Anthony Black.

[Degoat]

Can Amen Thompson be an ultra athletic Lonzo Ball/Giddey?

[The Truth #6]

The last PF high lottery pick with a fractional asst/TO ratio was Patrick Williams, and he’s been a huge disappointment as a former #4 overall. It’s why Cam isn’t high up on my board.

Fair. What is your board?

[exstatic]

Fair. What is your board?

To be released after the combine. I’ll want to see the measurements and anthro.

[J_Paco]

I totally get hesitation towards Amen in the top 3. Though I’m leaning into it, I recognize it could be a disaster. So I’m curious for those who want to stay away from Amen and Scoot if we are at 2 or 3, then who is your choice? Meaning, I get he has red flags, and it’s easy to critique, but who is your pick then?

It's Victor, Scoot and either Ausar or Cam is third. Cam would be the perfect pick (reminds me of Jimmy Butler) 3rd overall, but he has defensive issues that give me pause.

I see him as more a 3 in the NBA and not a 4. He could be similar to young Kawhi in needing to work on his ballhandling & playmaking (defense is nowhere close, apparently) to become an all-star or elite - level player.

[The Truth #6]

It's Victor, Scoot and either Asur or Cam is third. Cam would be the perfect pick (reminds me of Jimmy Butler) 3rd overall, but he has defensive issues that give me pause.

I see him as more a 3 in the NBA and not a 4. He could be similar to young Kawhi in needing to work on his ballhandling & playmaking (defense is nowhere close, apparently) to become an all-star or elite - level player.

And you like Ausur over Amen because he is a better shooter strictly, or something else?

[Mr. Body]

The last PF high lottery pick with a fractional asst/TO ratio was Patrick Williams, and he’s been a huge disappointment as a former #4 overall. It’s why Cam isn’t high up on my board.

Chicago really took a big swing there. Man, looking at the 2020 draft, it was dogshit.

Yeah, that AST/TO ratio is nasty. He didn't even have great defensive stats, which Whitmore does, at least some.

[J_Paco]

And you like Ausur over Amen because he is a better shooter strictly, or something else?


I like him because he's the more "defensive-minded" of the twins and has tremendous upside on that end. The Spurs need a lot of help on that end, IMO, and a guy like him (if his defensive skills can translate) would be huge.

Now, the danger is that his rigid jumper (which isn't as God awful looking like Amen) doesn't improve and he becomes nothing more than another Justise Winslow, MKG or Greg Brown - type of player.

[heyheymymy]

I'm with J Paco, good call.

Not very interested in the twins but if you took one I'd almost prefer Ausar over Amen as I said here a few months ago.

Better shooting plus almost equal playmaking, plus stronger perimeter D, rebounding and steals imo.

Ausar would be a glue guy but sub star level which is so unattractive for such a top pick especially for SA who historically doesn't spend much time in range to pick so high. So it's a lot of work, tanking the whole season for lukewarm returns

[heyheymymy]

Also Ausar would slot better as a 2/3 which has more even roster distribution than piling Amen on top of Jones/Graham/Wesley even if you can maybe push Graham to the SG although if Jones departs and Blake fails then suppose Amen would stopgap pretty nicely in the guard corps

[heyheymymy]

And if you dump KJ and Doug, more likely imo than losing Jones/Wesley getting pushed out anytime soon, then Ausar likewise stop gaps the wings corps quite nicely as well

[J_Paco]

I'm with J Paco, good call.

Not very interested in the twins but if you took one I'd almost prefer Ausar over Amen as I said here a few months ago.

Better shooting plus almost equal playmaking, plus stronger perimeter D, rebounding and steals imo.

Ausar would be a glue guy but sub star level which is so unattractive for such a top pick especially for SA who historically doesn't spend much time in range to pick so high. So it's a lot of work, tanking the whole season for lukewarm returns

Right, Amen's ceiling is higher (maybe prime Tracy McGrady if he can somehow develop a jumper & vastly improves on defense) but Ausar seems like the less risky pick. Of course, that also means his ceiling is lower as a prospect (Andre Iguodala - type career).

I would stay away from both in the top 3 or 4, but outside of that range they might be worth the risk on roster devoid of uber-athletic wing players.

And if you draft either you do so knowing you'll need to be patient and will be picking in the top 3 - 7 range once again next year. Crazy that top 5 picks are "projects" but that is the scenario we are in.

[JPB]

So I don't mean this as an attack or a gotcha, but do you think your views on drafting for ceiling have changed since 2020? You seemed completely willing to accept a low floor back then with a guy like Poke. Do you think Poke had a higher floor or ceiling than Thompson does now? Again, I don't have a dog in the fight, so I'm not saying he does or doesn't. But I feel like of all people who would advocate for taking a chance that you'd be up there.

I feel like a lot of posters are scared of messing this pick up. To me, if they mess it up, they'll get another high pick next year anyway. Some seem to believe that this is a rare event the Spurs have to get right. It probably is the start of a few high picks the team will get, and they don't have to hit on all of them. In my opinion, they just need to do the best they can and adjust to whatever happens.

First, we don't know what pick exactly they'll get next year, since I really don't see Pop nor the players going for a similar year, but there's fair chances that'll be a lower pick. And missing on this one means wasting one brutal tanking year, while putting more pressure not to fuck up the next one... All this mess for a guy that could be out of the league after 3 years?

I personnaly prefer watching every pick independently than relying on the total, not to lower the importance of every single one. You know that statiscally you'll get some misses so better trying to get something and hit every year.

[JPB]

Right, Amen's ceiling is higher (maybe prime Tracy McGrady if he can somehow develop a jumper & vastly improves on defense) but Ausar seems like the less risky pick. Of course, that also means his ceiling is lower as a prospect (Andre Iguodala - type career).

I would stay away from both in the top 3 or 4, but outside of that range they might be worth the risk on roster devoid of uber-athletic wing players.

And if you draft either you do so knowing you'll need to be patient and will be picking in the top 3 - 7 range once again next year. Crazy that top 5 picks are "projects" but that is the scenario we are in.

If Amen's ceiling was Tracy Mc Grady, that would somehow already show and no one would talk about potential bust. That's really fantasizing and wishful thinking at this point with Amen. And big IFs about things that are not there at all for the moment. Like he can't shoot and defend against teens, but if he could he would be great.

[ducks]

Pass
competition level weakeness
Spurs can not fix that big -

No need for for that weakness

[TD 21]

Can Amen Thompson be an ultra athletic Lonzo Ball/Giddey?

Although I doubt his 3 gets to the level of Ball's, they're good examples of "connector" type, complementary starters as opposed to centerpieces.

Wembanyama and Henderson are the only two obvious centerpieces I see. Of course, someone(s) is likely to unexpectedly emerge as such, as per usual.



It's Victor, Scoot and either Ausar or Cam is third. Cam would be the perfect pick (reminds me of Jimmy Butler) 3rd overall, but he has defensive issues that give me pause.

I see him as more a 3 in the NBA and not a 4. He could be similar to young Kawhi in needing to work on his ballhandling & playmaking (defense is nowhere close, apparently) to become an all-star or elite - level player.

I see Miles Bridges as the Whitmore comp. Combo forward, potentially a high end, versatile finisher and neutral or greater defender, but doesn't offer much in the way of shot creation.

Of course, the same could have been said about Scumbag and Butler a dozen years ago, but they're outliers for a reason.

[Chinook]

First, we don't know what pick exactly they'll get next year, since I really don't see Pop nor the players going for a similar year, but there's fair chances that'll be a lower pick. And missing on this one means wasting one brutal tanking year, while putting more pressure not to fuck up the next one... All this mess for a guy that could be out of the league after 3 years?

I personnaly prefer watching every pick independently than relying on the total, not to lower the importance of every single one. You know that statiscally you'll get some misses so better trying to get something and hit every year.

I don't think this is really a rebuttal to what I was saying. We should want every pick to be good. No one was arguing otherwise but in terms of what is "riding" on this pick, it's not much. The Spurs aren't a good team -- not nearly as much of their bad season was their choice as some might say. Yes, if they change posture, they can threaten the play-in. But this is more than just having their guys healthy. With Houston signaling they're going top tanking, there's good reason to assume the Spurs will be the worst team in the West next year barring a major improvement.

My point is not that the Spurs should plan on picks busting because they'll get more. It's that the Spurs aren't good and that they didn't get this way through a one-time choice. They don't need to hit on this pick to save their franchise like they might've in a scenario where the Spurs were a decent vet team that managed to get a high pick through freak injuries. The team should draft the guy they like and not be too worried about whether the downside is the guy being a meh player or busting out entirely. The downside doesn't really matter right now. Only their realistic upside matters. Who care is Amen might not be in the league in four years while Miller will at least be a role-player? Both cases mean the Spurs are still going to tank. The Spurs are in the business of collecting talent right now -- not mitigating risk. That doesn't mean they need to try to draft guys like Sam and Poke who are years away from being playable but have like a 1/1000000 chance of being a unicorn or whatever. But it does mean trusting your ability to develop players and not just see them as investment portfolios.

[rascal]

Also Ausar would slot better as a 2/3 which has more even roster distribution than piling Amen on top of Jones/Graham/Wesley even if you can maybe push Graham to the SG although if Jones departs and Blake fails then suppose Amen would stopgap pretty nicely in the guard corps

You don't have to keep all of Jones/Graham /Wesley so no need to pile on the roster which is a concern for you.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah if you thought it was a logjam you would have to trade Wes and Graham both are under contract. Jones could leave this summer but I wonder how much SA values him and how his market is league wide.

Doubtful and less ideal but maybe they can shift positions around perhaps pushing Graham or Blake (or Amen?) to SG and keep all of them with no additional steps but all this must factor in somewhat of concern unless they just want 4 ball handlers which I concede it's possible they very well may.

[Mr. Body]

I really think people are optimistic thinking either Amen or Ausar can be part of a rotation this next season. They're coming out of the same league Barlow did and we remember Pop's comments about him. They even have another year of OTE to pick up terrible and useless habits.

As for Tre Jones, I think the team likes him a ton and he'll be around.

[BackHome]

At this point you pick the best player forget who is currently on your team we almost had the worst record in the NBA

[TD 21]

I really think people are optimistic thinking either Amen or Ausar can be part of a rotation this next season. They're coming out of the same league Barlow did and we remember Pop's comments about him. They even have another year of OTE to pick up terrible and useless habits.

As for Tre Jones, I think the team likes him a ton and he'll be around.

Whoever the pick is, they'll be a rotation lock next season because they'll be the highest pick in 26 years for the least talented and marketable team in the league.

[Ariel]

Yeah if you thought it was a logjam you would have to trade Wes and Graham both are under contract. Jones could leave this summer but I wonder how much SA values him and how his market is league wide.

Doubtful and less ideal but maybe they can shift positions around perhaps pushing Graham or Blake (or Amen?) to SG and keep all of them with no additional steps but all this must factor in somewhat of concern unless they just want 4 ball handlers which I concede it's possible they very well may.
Graham isn't a long term Spur, he'll be moved by the next trade deadline IMO. Wesley is a prospect, but he shouldn't prevent us from adding better talent, he's painfully raw and could very well benefit from spending most of the season honing his craft in the G-League, no other team would give him more than garbage minutes at this point so its not like he's got much room to complain. Same goes for Barlow, I like them both but they're not the caliber of guys that should prevent you from taking advantage of any opportunity that arises.

[Ariel]

Whoever the pick is, they'll be a rotation lock next season because they'll be the highest pick in 26 years for the least talented and marketable team in the league.
Yup, they'll play even if they suck a$$.

[The Truth #6]

Never heard of this podcast. Spurs centric analysis of Amen:

https://youtu.be/xuKrHzPnWMQ

[Mr. Body]

Whoever the pick is, they'll be a rotation lock next season because they'll be the highest pick in 26 years for the least talented and marketable team in the league.

No they won't.

[Chinook]

I guess in a scenario where they get injured or die before opening night, they wouldn't be in the rotation. But outside of that, it's a lock. I would say it's more likely than not that they start. As I've said, I don't see the Spurs starting the year in a win-now posture no matter who the pick is. The Spurs aren't going to draft a player with a top-five pick only to then realize they literally can't play in the NBA. Even if they're like Sochan and aren't good for most of the year, they will play big minutes. I honestly think it's more likely that they're in the year-one rotation than it is that they're in the year-two rotation. If Amen for example needs to learn how to play in the NBA, he'll do so in SA and not Austin.

[Mr. Body]

:lol Have you guys ever watched the Spurs? :lol

[Chinook]

:lol Have you guys ever watched the Spurs? :lol

Yes, including last year when the first top-10 pick this century started immediately despite not being able to put the ball in the hoop and still trying to figure it out on defense.

Have you ever watched any basketball besides the old Spurs to see how top-five picks are normally treated?

[Mr. Body]

Right, the team that famously doesn't promise playing time to anybody. The one that makes sure its players can contribute and know what they're doing. They're really gonna throw a guy in who doesn't know what he's doing and make things worse for himself. Popovich, who takes players slowly if he has to.

That franchise and coach is going to just give time to a guy who has no fucking idea how to play NBA basketball just because he was pick #3. They're gonna change absolutely everything for some 20 year old who's only been playing against high schoolers for two years and may have no concept of NBA rotations or offenses. GTFO. :lol

[Ariel]

Never heard of this podcast. Spurs centric analysis of Amen:

https://youtu.be/xuKrHzPnWMQ
Good catch, I didn't know Harry Potter was a Spurs fan.

[rascal]

I really think people are optimistic thinking either Amen or Ausar can be part of a rotation this next season. They're coming out of the same league Barlow did and we remember Pop's comments about him. They even have another year of OTE to pick up terrible and useless habits.

As for Tre Jones, I think the team likes him a ton and he'll be around.

To think Amen can't crack the rotation of the second worst team in the league. Come on now get real

[KobesAchilles]

I mean we have the second worst record in the entire league. PLUS the kids would most likely be a top 5 pick. He is playing no matter what. Now he might not start. But he’s playing. I mean who do we even have to play ahead of him?

[benefactor]

Why do any of you listen to Mr. Butthole anymore?:lol

[benefactor]

When rascal is sitting you down...:lmao

[benefactor]

Apparently Mr. Butthole is stuck in 2005. This is not a good team. Lmao tossing out weak arguments about needing to earn your place. Wake your stupid ass up and welcome yourself to the modern Spurs, dumbass. He will be a starter or immediate rotation player from the jump. Who in the fuck is he earning his place against on this shit squad?

[Chinook]

Right, the team that famously doesn't promise playing time to anybody. The one that makes sure its players can contribute and know what they're doing. They're really gonna throw a guy in who doesn't know what he's doing and make things worse for himself. Popovich, who takes players slowly if he has to.

That franchise and coach is going to just give time to a guy who has no fucking idea how to play NBA basketball just because he was pick #3. They're gonna change absolutely everything for some 20 year old who's only been playing against high schoolers for two years and may have no concept of NBA rotations or offenses. GTFO. :lol

Why would the Spurs draft a guy who doesn't know how to play basketball with the third pick? Do you think they're stupid? Yes, they could draft a bust -- but he'd be a bust they'd go into the season believing in. Hence the playing time. Even if they draft him knowing he has to work on things to really be at an NBA level, they're going to play him in SA. In Austin he'd get big minutes against lower competition, but he could also be in SA and get big minutes against lesser competition and theoretically grow faster. And if your answer is "Well Pop may not want to give up the season by giving a raw player rotation minutes, then why are the Spurs drafting him?

No, I'm not ignoring that you may not like Amen or that the Spurs may not like him either. That's not the point I'm trying to make. What I am saying is that they aren't going to believe in a guy enough to take him with a top-five pick but also be so skeptical of him that they wouldn't put him in the rotation. They'd have options for other guys to pick; it's not like they'd be forced to select a guy because he's the only player in his tier ala GS and Wiseman. I'm not trying to pile on you, but you seem to think the your perception of the Spurs' past has way more bearing on the present than it does.

[benefactor]

^tbh

[Mr. Body]

Why would the Spurs draft a guy who doesn't know how to play basketball with the third pick? Do you think they're stupid? Yes, they could draft a bust -- but he'd be a bust they'd go into the season believing in. Hence the playing time. Even if they draft him knowing he has to work on things to really be at an NBA level, they're going to play him in SA. In Austin he'd get big minutes against lower competition, but he could also be in SA and get big minutes against lesser competition and theoretically grow faster. And if your answer is "Well Pop may not want to give up the season by giving a raw player rotation minutes, then why are the Spurs drafting him?

No, I'm not ignoring that you may not like Amen or that the Spurs may not like him either. That's not the point I'm trying to make. What I am saying is that they aren't going to believe in a guy enough to take him with a top-five pick but also be so skeptical of him that they wouldn't put him in the rotation. They'd have options for other guys to pick; it's not like they'd be forced to select a guy because he's the only player in his tier ala GS and Wiseman. I'm not trying to pile on you, but you seem to think the your perception of the Spurs' past has way more bearing on the present than it does.

I've been consistent that the Spurs aren't going to draft Amen or will trade down if he's there, so the point is somewhat moot. But if they get Whitmore, for example, he could spend time in the G-League. The motherfucker doesn't even know how to pass.

So, yes, if their player isn't ready for the NBA, he'll go to G-League to work things out. There's no 'guaranteed rotation spot.' They're not going to jam a player into the rotation just because he's costing them a high draft pick and lots of money. They're going to make sure he's ready for the years ahead. Like you said, Wiseman went down for the Warriors.

A lot of weirdos in this thread.

[Ariel]

I've been consistent that the Spurs aren't going to draft Amen or will trade down if he's there, so the point is somewhat moot. But if they get Whitmore, for example, he could spend time in the G-League. The motherfucker doesn't even know how to pass.

So, yes, if their player isn't ready for the NBA, he'll go to G-League to work things out. There's no 'guaranteed rotation spot.' They're not going to jam a player into the rotation just because he's costing them a high draft pick and lots of money. They're going to make sure he's ready for the years ahead. Like you said, Wiseman went down for the Warriors.

A lot of weirdos in this thread.
If Blake Wesley received as much playing time as he did as raw as he is, Cam Whitmore shouldn't spend a second on the G-League, given that he'll be above average in a number of areas the second he steps on the court. Besides, reading the game better and being able to take advantage of his teammates is something he definitely needs to improve on, but he's a forward, not a point guard. Also, keep in mind he's an 18 year old who's used to be a finisher rather than a creator, Jaylen Brown was a year older and had a lot of the same issues, and he ended up more than alright. He won't be Jokic, but I don't think he's Lonnie either.

[exstatic]

If Blake Wesley received as much playing time as he did as raw as he is, Cam Whitmore shouldn't spend a second on the G-League, given that he'll be above average in a number of areas the second he steps on the court. Besides, reading the game better and being able to take advantage of his teammates is something he definitely needs to improve on, but he's a forward, not a point guard. Also, keep in mind he's an 18 year old who's used to be a finisher rather than a creator, Jaylen Brown was a year older and had a lot of the same issues, and he ended up more than alright. He won't be Jokic, but I don't think he's Lonnie either.

No one is expecting him to be a PG with a 2 / 1 or 3 / 1 assist ratio, but having one that is not close to 1 / 1 is a red flag. His is essentially 1 / 2.3. He pretty much doesn't see anyone on the court if they're not directly in front of him.

[rascal]

No one is expecting him to be a PG with a 2 / 1 or 3 / 1 assist ratio, but having one that is not close to 1 / 1 is a red flag. His is essentially 1 / 2.3. He pretty much doesn't see anyone on the court if they're not directly in front of him.

Sochan only had one more assit per game than Cam in college.

[rascal]

Sochan only shot .063 better than Amen in college from 3 and shot .057 worse in FT%

If you were high on Sochan in believing he can improve than why not Amen who is far more athletic than Sochan.

[exstatic]

Sochan only had one more assit per game than Cam.

If Cam had another assist, he'd be dead even, not in the hole. Sochan also had fewer turnovers. His ratio was 1.8 / 1.6. That's about what you're looking for in college PF.

[Ariel]

No one is expecting him to be a PG with a 2 / 1 or 3 / 1 assist ratio, but having one that is not close to 1 / 1 is a red flag. His is essentially 1 / 2.3. He pretty much doesn't see anyone on the court if they're not directly in front of him.
Again, you need to analyze WHY his assist to turnover rate is low. I do believe his court vision has to do with it, but also it's related to the way he's used to play, he tries to finish by himself way too much and that results in getting trapped and racking up TOs. With proper coaching, smart teammates and better spacing, the same situations where he ended up losing the ball he kicks it out and avoids the TO plus gets the assist, and his AS/TO ratio improves significantly. You don't need 5 playmakers, he needs to simply avoid being a huge liability in those situations and whatever he gives up his strengths will compensate for. In context, I don't think this issue is a deal breaker.

[exstatic]

Again, you need to analyze WHY his assist to turnover rate is low. I do believe his court vision has to do with it, but also it's related to the way he's used to play, he tries to finish by himself way too much and that results in getting trapped and racking up TOs. With proper coaching, smart teammates and better spacing, the same situations where he ended up losing the ball he kicks it out and avoids the TO plus gets the assist, and his AS/TO ratio improves significantly. You don't need 5 playmakers, he needs to simply avoid being a huge liability in those situations and whatever he gives up his strengths will compensate for. In context, I don't think this issue is a deal breaker.

Actually, Pop kind of likes that, and the Spurs tend towards drafting secondary creators, not guys who have to be taught a basic kickout pass. His rebounding is light, too. Of the four domestic big forwards, he's the overall worst.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan only shot .063 better than Amen in college from 3 and shot .057 worse in FT%

If you were high on Sochan in believing he can improve than why not Amen who is far more athletic than Sochan.

Is Thompson actually that much faster than Sochan?

Regardless, again this is the fallacy of looking at stats like a broken computer. Sochan played very high level college basketball. Amen... didn't. Not even close.

[Mr. Body]

If Blake Wesley received as much playing time as he did as raw as he is, Cam Whitmore shouldn't spend a second on the G-League, given that he'll be above average in a number of areas the second he steps on the court. Besides, reading the game better and being able to take advantage of his teammates is something he definitely needs to improve on, but he's a forward, not a point guard. Also, keep in mind he's an 18 year old who's used to be a finisher rather than a creator, Jaylen Brown was a year older and had a lot of the same issues, and he ended up more than alright. He won't be Jokic, but I don't think he's Lonnie either.

Wesley didn't really get a huge amount of playing time and he was in the Gleague.

Whitmore is a better Prospect, to be sure, but he'll be a total ball stopper unless they do a lot to change him. I'd submit that Wesley got time because he could circulate the ball and play defense. At least Whitmore can play defense, but moving the ball is another issue. I've compared him to Keldon Johnson. If Keldon's on the move with the ball, it's to the rim. He doesn't see the floor.

He's just eye poppingly bad in his asst TO ratio. He doesn't really excel at much else either.

[mo7888]

Is Thompson actually that much faster than Sochan?

Regardless, again this is the fallacy of looking at stats like a broken computer. Sochan played very high level college basketball. Amen... didn't. Not even close.

Yes, Amen is much faster that Sochan. I'm not as high on Amen as some (I don't have him top 5), but his his athleticism, speed, etc is legit.

[offset formation]

Sochan only shot .063 better than Amen in college from 3 and shot .057 worse in FT%

If you were high on Sochan in believing he can improve than why not Amen who is far more athletic than Sochan.

Which is why I'm just slightly higher on Amen than Scoot though I don't like either on the Spurs. Amen is 6'7" and should at least be a boost on defense as a PG where we could use some help. Offensively, neither oexcitement. me.

[Mr. Body]

Yes, Amen is much faster that Sochan. I'm not as high on Amen as some (I don't have him top 5), but his his athleticism, speed, etc is legit.

Sure, but Sochan's extremely fast for his position. Again, though, athleticism might win you a possession here or there, but it's not basketball.

[spurraider21]

I totally get hesitation towards Amen in the top 3. Though I’m leaning into it, I recognize it could be a disaster. So I’m curious for those who want to stay away from Amen and Scoot if we are at 2 or 3, then who is your choice? Meaning, I get he has red flags, and it’s easy to critique, but who is your pick then?
speaking of red flags... brandon miller feels like a safer bet to pan out as a good NBA player than Amen

its just so hard to judge Amen other than his traits, because the level of play at OTE is just atrociously bad. its full of high school guys who werent good enough to play in college or G League Ignite. Amen requires a ton of projection, though his traits are somewhat eye popping. i dont hate him, and id probably start considering him anywhere past #3. but with him, you are looking at a guy who probably is not NBA ready and is legitimately a project. his obvious comp is ben simmons for good and bad reasons.

if Amen had his level of production playing for a college team, his stock would be higher. but we dont have that data point.

his brother feels safer because he at least has a functional jump shot

[The Truth #6]

speaking of red flags... brandon miller feels like a safer bet to pan out as a good NBA player than Amen

its just so hard to judge Amen other than his traits, because the level of play at OTE is just atrociously bad. its full of high school guys who werent good enough to play in college or G League Ignite. Amen requires a ton of projection, though his traits are somewhat eye popping. i dont hate him, and id probably start considering him anywhere past #3. but with him, you are looking at a guy who probably is not NBA ready and is legitimately a project. his obvious comp is ben simmons for good and bad reasons.

if Amen had his level of production playing for a college team, his stock would be higher. but we dont have that data point.

his brother feels safer because he at least has a functional jump shot

That all makes sense. I agree with most of that, but I wonder if the Spurs would actually pick Miller at 3, so then who? It will be interesting.

[rascal]

Is Thompson actually that much faster than Sochan?

Regardless, again this is the fallacy of looking at stats like a broken computer. Sochan played very high level college basketball. Amen... didn't. Not even close.

Keep spinning crap when the stats don't support your claims. Both Amen and Sochan are poor 3 point shooters.

You believed Sochan can/will improve then why not Amen?

[rascal]

That all makes sense. I agree with most of that, but I wonder if the Spurs would actually pick Miller at 3, so then who? It will be interesting.

Spurs have already said they aren't picking Miller.

[duncan2150]

Sochan only shot .063 better than Amen in college from 3 and shot .057 worse in FT%

If you were high on Sochan in believing he can improve than why not Amen who is far more athletic than Sochan.

Amen's shoot is way more broken than sochan's

[Ariel]

Keep spinning crap when the stats don't support your claims. Both Amen and Sochan are poor 3 point shooters.

You believed Sochan can/will improve then why not Amen?
Sochan already played one full year in the NBA, prior to that he played College basketball at Baylor and international FIBA competitions with Poland. At all levels he displayed an extremely high competitive nature and basketball IQ, and all around skill set. Meanwhile, the Thompsons are 4 MONTHS OLDER than Sochan and are still playing mediocre high schoolers, where they don't really stand out like they should statistically, other than for their awful shooting percentages. There's no way to properly assess them, and that's by design. How will they fare in the NBA, it's anybody's guess. If we end up picking 7, then whatever, but at 2, 3, 4, taking one of those guys feels like playing Russian roulette.

[J_Paco]

If Amen's ceiling was Tracy Mc Grady, that would somehow already show and no one would talk about potential bust. That's really fantasizing and wishful thinking at this point with Amen. And big IFs about things that are not there at all for the moment. Like he can't shoot and defend against teens, but if he could he would be great.

That's why I added "maybe" as a caveat.

[tonight...you]

Spurs have already said they aren't picking Miller.
Link please?

[Chinook]

I've been consistent that the Spurs aren't going to draft Amen or will trade down if he's there, so the point is somewhat moot.

The point isn't moot in my mind. I do think whoever the Spurs draft is going to be in the rotation, both on virtue of how much the Spurs have to like that player to draft them and because of how awful their team is. I don't think not believing the Spurs like Amen is invalid, despite timvp's sources. But I do think you're overplaying what flaws the Spurs would consider unplayable. If a guy needs to learn to pass, but he's still BPA, they will draft him, put him in the rotation and have him learn to pass with the big club. They aren't going to draft someone they think can't play at all. I do think they'll put an even higher emphasis on their ability to work players out and in general have full access to the prospects given their high standing.

I'm honestly pretty against trading back. The Spurs should pick BPA and not worry about getting cute. They are trying to make a statement with this pick, not "get value". That's why it's okay if the pick busts rather than becomes a meh player. The Spurs can get any mediocre pick in this draft that they'd want using their other assets. So unless they hate this draft, they should just take the guy they like the most wherever they pick. If that means reaching, so be it. If that means taking a risk, so be it. Ignoring that there might not be a trade out there that allows them to move exactly where they want to for enough value to make it worth it, I don't think them trading down would ever get to the point where they could justify not playing them right away. Again, Sochan got the nod despite his rawness. That's their actual trend, not what they did with late picks when they were a contender.

[exstatic]

Spurs have already said they aren't picking Miller.

They actually haven’t. timvp said that one Eastern Congerence GM’s opinion was that the Spurs wouldn’t. That’s not the same thing at all.

[tonight...you]

The point isn't moot in my mind. I do think whoever the Spurs draft is going to be in the rotation, both on virtue of how much the Spurs have to like that player to draft them and because of how awful their team is. I don't think not believing the Spurs like Amen is invalid, despite timvp's sources. But I do think you're overplaying what flaws the Spurs would consider unplayable. If a guy needs to learn to pass, but he's still BPA, they will draft him, put him in the rotation and have him learn to pass with the big club. They aren't going to draft someone they think can't play at all. I do think they'll put an even higher emphasis on their ability to work players out and in general have full access to the prospects given their high standing.

I'm honestly pretty against trading back. The Spurs should pick BPA and not worry about getting cute. They are trying to make a statement with this pick, not "get value". That's why it's okay if the pick busts rather than becomes a meh player. The Spurs can get any mediocre pick in this draft that they'd want using their other assets. So unless they hate this draft, they should just take the guy they like the most wherever they pick. If that means reaching, so be it. If that means taking a risk, so be it. Ignoring that there might not be a trade out there that allows them to move exactly where they want to for enough value to make it worth it, I don't think them trading down would ever get to the point where they could justify not playing them right away. Again, Sochan got the nod despite his rawness. That's their actual trend, not what they did with late picks when they were a contender.
I pretty much agree on all fronts and think there is Zero way they put a top 5 pick in the G-League no matter who here thinks what.
That's Draft capital that needs to be fast-tracked with the big boys at all costs, positive, or negative.

[tonight...you]

They actually haven’t. timvp said that one Eastern Congerence GM’s opinion was that the Spurs wouldn’t. That’s not the same thing at all.
Appreciate the clarification.
I can never trust rascal at face value most of the time.
Sorry rascal.

[Degoat]

Why so much Amen talk, we’re drafting Wemby! Manifest it fellas

[tonight...you]

Why so much Amen talk, we’re drafting Wemby! Manifest it fellas
nommmmm... nommmmm... nommmmm... Necronominommmmmm... nommmmm... nommmmm...

[JPB]

I'm reading here or there "spurs should pick BPA". OK, but isn't it the whole point? WHO is the BPA 2 to 7?

[tonight...you]

I'm reading here or there "spurs should pick BPA". OK, but isn't it the whole point? WHO is the BPA 2 to 7?
That's the 60 million dollar question. It's very up in the air.
Every pick has such plusses and minuses.
Watch a pick in the late teens be the best pick in the Draft as Wemby is injured most of his career and the top 7 are all goobs.
It's happened before.
Many times.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan only had one more assit per game than Cam in college.

Per 36, their turnovers pg were almost identical, but Sochan got one and a half more assists per 36. Comparison really doesn't look good for Cam.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cam-whitmore--jeremy-sochan

[Mr. Body]

Keep spinning crap when the stats don't support your claims. Both Amen and Sochan are poor 3 point shooters.

You believed Sochan can/will improve then why not Amen?

Amen plays shooting guard and cannot shoot? He played against much younger players? Sochan is a power forward whose skill set wasn't supposed to be an outside shooter?

I think Amen can improve, but he spent two years in a kiddie league and never got better. What was he doing with all his time?

Jeremy Sochan is actually younger than Amen Thompson btw.

[Mr. Body]

I pretty much agree on all fronts and think there is Zero way they put a top 5 pick in the G-League no matter who here thinks what.
That's Draft capital that needs to be fast-tracked with the big boys at all costs, positive, or negative.

G-League IS fast-tracking players. That's the point. That's why G-League exists.

Do people think it's a punishment, like a gulag, where they bring you back if you promise to play better? A guy who needs work on certain skills can sometimes not get it on the NBA court or actually get worse.

[tonight...you]

G-League IS fast-tracking players. That's the point. That's why G-League exists.

Do people think it's a punishment, like a gulag, where they bring you back if you promise to play better? A guy who needs work on certain skills can sometimes not get it on the NBA court or actually get worse.
Not saying they aren't. Just saying the team will most likely keep a top 7 player on the biggie squad no matter what due to the investment.
You can believe what you want.

[Mr. Body]

Not saying they aren't. Just saying the team will most likely keep a top 7 player on the biggie squad no matter what due to the investment.
You can believe what you want.

Sure.

[tonight...you]

Sure.
Thumb's up bubba.

[rascal]

Sochan already played one full year in the NBA, prior to that he played College basketball at Baylor and international FIBA competitions with Poland. At all levels he displayed an extremely high competitive nature and basketball IQ, and all around skill set. Meanwhile, the Thompsons are 4 MONTHS OLDER than Sochan and are still playing mediocre high schoolers, where they don't really stand out like they should statistically, other than for their awful shooting percentages. There's no way to properly assess them, and that's by design. How will they fare in the NBA, it's anybody's guess. If we end up picking 7, then whatever, but at 2, 3, 4, taking one of those guys feels like playing Russian roulette.

I'm not talking about who played where. I'm talking about 3 point shooting and both Sochan and Amen are poor 3 pt shooters.

If you believe Sochan will improve than why not Amen. They are the same age.

[rascal]

Per 36, their turnovers pg were almost identical, but Sochan got one and a half more assists per 36. Comparison really doesn't look good for Cam.

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=cam-whitmore--jeremy-sochan

Cam looks better overall offensively. Just needs a little improvement in assit totals but I wouldn't say Sochan gets so many more assits at one and a half per game more.

No reason to cross Cam off as undesireable as a draft prospect.

[The Truth #6]

That Amen is considered too old is a weird trend for the league in my opinion. Yes, stars should be developed early to maximize their potential, but to me he’s still young. A slight bit of maturity being 20 instead of 18 is probably a good thing.

From what I understand he was homeschooled for a while, so I’m not sure how his age got so high so to speak, if that’s the concern, but from what I understand, he skipped out his senior year of high school to place his first season for overtime elite, and then just had his second season, which would’ve been his first season in college. So I get that his age is older, but it doesn’t quite add up to me.

Of course he may bust but I wouldn’t pick Hendricks or Anthony Black before him, as much as I think both of them will be decent pros. I probably wouldn’t pick Cam either. I would pick Brandon Miller over Amen but the Spurs probably won’t. I like Jarace Walker so he’s maybe a player I’d take before Amen. We will be picking relatively high obviously so there’s only so many options. Of course the Spurs could reach for a player at 3 or 4 we don’t expect, like Anthony Black, but I think they want a home run swing with at least some upside. Also, I think Amen’s floor is being understated somewhat. Yes, his jumper could make him unplayable but his driving and passing could also translate quickly. Hard to say for sure. So given the options or lack there of, I’m still considering Amen.

[rascal]

They actually haven’t. timvp said that one Eastern Congerence GM’s opinion was that the Spurs wouldn’t. That’s not the same thing at all.

This is what timvp said. “There’s absolutely no way the Spurs draft and keep him,” a league source told me when asked about the possibility of San Antonio drafting Brandon Miller. “No way. None.”

A League source? Someone who has some type of connection with the Spurs who timvp won't say.

[exstatic]

This is what timvp said. “There’s absolutely no way the Spurs draft and keep him,” a league source told me when asked about the possibility of San Antonio drafting Brandon Miller. “No way. None.”

A League source? Someone who has some type of connection with the Spurs who timvp won't say.

You said spurs told him in your post, and it was a league league source, left undefined. You stepped in dog shit, yet again. He’s mentioned in the past that he has an EC front office source, but never mentioned a direct Spurs source.

[rascal]

You said spurs told him in your post, and it was a league league source, left undefined. You stepped in dog shit, yet again. He’s mentioned in the past that he has an EC front office source, but never mentioned a direct Spurs source.

You said it was an eastern conference gm what timvp said and that is not what he said.

[BackHome]

I don’t believe the Amen hype if your playing PG and you suck at shooting and at shooting free throws and your 20 years old count me out. He will crack as when he plays no one will step out of the paint to guard him and when he does take a shot and it is a brick or air ball people are going to let him know it. This will destroy any confidence he does have right now I am looking at him like Blake a 3 year project that was our third pick.

[Chinook]

I'm reading here or there "spurs should pick BPA". OK, but isn't it the whole point? WHO is the BPA 2 to 7?

I very openly don't know. Heck, I don't particularly even care. I want them to draft who they like. I don't really like anyone at this point. But in my mind, the Spurs drafting for floor, disqualifying folks for character without actually talking to them or worrying about their current depth chart are things they could factor in beyond just BPA. I want them to avoid all of that, and a lot of the evaluations I've seen factor those things in. As I've said I do think a number of folks are sort of panicking about this pick and assuming it has to be a franchise-defining pick for the club. But it doesn't, even if it's the first-overall pick. The Spurs have gotten absurdly lucky on all three of their top-five picks. That's not normal, and I doubt it'll hold up forever. So while we should all hope they nail this pick, it'll be okay if they don't. I'd much rather them draft a bust they think will be the best player left in the draft than pick a guy they believe will just be safe. That's the difference between a top-five pick and a late-lotto in my mind.

[TD 21]

No they won't.

Great reasoning. :lmao At thinking this is even a legitimate debate. This is way worse than you pretending Collins is a "PF" for nonsensical reasons. It's so bad, it's one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

Sochan was handed a starting job and Branham was basically the 6th man (when the starting five were all active) in relatively short order, but a higher pedigreed prospect is going to sit, for who exactly? Give your head a shake.


I very openly don't know. Heck, I don't particularly even care. I want them to draft who they like. I don't really like anyone at this point. But in my mind, the Spurs drafting for floor, disqualifying folks for character without actually talking to them or worrying about their current depth chart are things they could factor in beyond just BPA. I want them to avoid all of that, and a lot of the evaluations I've seen factor those things in. As I've said I do think a number of folks are sort of panicking about this pick and assuming it has to be a franchise-defining pick for the club. But it doesn't, even if it's the first-overall pick. The Spurs have gotten absurdly lucky on all three of their top-five picks. That's not normal, and I doubt it'll hold up forever. So while we should all hope they nail this pick, it'll be okay if they don't. I'd much rather them draft a bust they think will be the best player left in the draft than pick a guy they believe will just be safe. That's the difference between a top-five pick and a late-lotto in my mind.

Mostly agree, but if they end up top 3-4 and the next two drafts are as weak as currently projected, this one might end up more meaningful than it typically would be.

[Mr. Body]

Great reasoning. :lmao At thinking this is even a legitimate debate. This is way worse than you pretending Collins is a "PF" for nonsensical reasons. It's so bad, it's one of the worst takes I've ever seen.

Sochan was handed a starting job and Branham was basically the 6th man (when the starting five were all active) in relatively short order, but a higher pedigreed prospect is going to sit, for who exactly? Give your head a shake.



Mostly agree, but if they end up top 3-4 and the next two drafts are as weak as currently projected, this one might end up more meaningful than it typically would be.

I'm not really sure if you fucktards really understand English or what. Sochan started because he understood what he was supposed to do on both sides of the ball. Braham played when he showed the same.

If a #3 pick doesn't know what the fuck he's supposed to do on the court, they're going to move him down a grade until he learns what to do. Going against the fucking lions is fucking stupid at that point, but then you idiots would do that I suppose cuz 'reasons.'

Just pure dumbfuckery. I continually don't understand how this franchise has some of the stupidest 'fans' out there.

[Mr. Body]

And yes, Collins can play PF. He did for Portland. Fucking hell. Just garbage people.

[Ariel]

Mostly agree, but if they end up top 3-4 and the next two drafts are as weak as currently projected, this one might end up more meaningful than it typically would be.
'24 is supposed to be weak and '25 very strong. I wouldn't know though, it's too far ahead and if you go back one year there's plenty of busts that were overhyped and talent coming out of nowhere. Right now it's '23 draft time, countdown to W-Day next tuesday.

[exstatic]

'24 is supposed to be weak and '25 very strong. I wouldn't know though, it's too far ahead and if you go back one year there's plenty of busts that were overhyped and talent coming out of nowhere. Right now it's '23 draft time, countdown to W-Day next tuesday.

You can’t really tell what a whole draft is in advance, but you can see a generational player a year out, and there isn’t one next year.

[JPB]

That Amen is considered too old is a weird trend for the league in my opinion. Yes, stars should be developed early to maximize their potential, but to me he’s still young. A slight bit of maturity being 20 instead of 18 is probably a good thing.


I beg to differ. Give me a 18 player with great potential who still didn't grow bad habbits (on and off the court) that might be hard to fix and who may be more willing to listen and learn than a 20 older guy who may also be a bit more self-entitled. Specially for a spurs team who isn't in win-now mode and has the time do mold and help develop there youngsters. Spurs just need talent now, not maturity (not that I'm sure Amen is that more mature), and the fact he's already 20 and played vs teens without really dominating is orange/red flag considering all his flaws.

[The Truth #6]

I beg to differ. Give me a 18 player with great potential who still didn't grow bad habbits (on and off the court) that might be hard to fix and who may be more willing to listen and learn than a 20 older guy who may also be a bit more self-entitled. Specially for a spurs team who isn't in win-now mode and has the time do mold and help develop there youngsters. Spurs just need talent now, not maturity (not that I'm sure Amen is that more mature), and the fact he's already 20 and played vs teens without really dominating is orange/red flag considering all his flaws.

Maybe. Maturity also involves being physically mature. But it depends on the player. In my opinion a lot of players burn out because they come into the league too soon and aren’t ready for it.

[exstatic]

Maybe. Maturity also involves being physically mature. But it depends on the player. In my opinion a lot of players burn out because they come into the league too soon and aren’t ready for it.

I don't think they burn out, I think they have the wrong point of view. They see the NBA draft as the finish line instead of the starting line. Way too happy just to be drafted, as if that guarantees a career. Then they don't put in the work, and they're on the street before they know it.

[Mr. Body]

Me, I don't think 20 is that big of a deal. Mikal Bridges was nearly 22 when he was drafted, at #10, and is at least a very good role-player but maybe more. Keegan Murray was undersold last year in part because of his age.

The league is fetishizing superyoung players to an extreme right now, preferring an undeveloped 18 or young 19 year old over a good upperclassman who may be showing more stuff. Incidentally, why bargains may be found later in the draft.

In part, maybe this is good, since the NBA is increasingly a specialized league. It's requiring less all-around wonders and more players who can activate certain narrow skillsets to a high level.

Or, it's a trend that will screw up players and distort things.

Regardless, the reason the Thompson's age seem somewhat alarming are twofold, I'd say:

1) They are so undeveloped even after playing in this professional league for two years. These are key developmental years, not just physically but in gameplay. It will get harder to develop those things against far better defenders and schema in the NBA. What were they doing for two years? Will we regret them not doing more with that time?

2) They were playing against much younger guys constantly. A 32 year-old playing against a 28 or 30 year-old is not a big deal, but a 20 year-old playing against 16 and 18 year-olds is an astounding difference, as those players are often not physically mature.

So... We have two guys, in the twins, who have gaping holes in their games, and while they put up somewhat appealing stats (those rebound, assist numbers), they were done against teenagers who aren't highly ranked, plus they somehow weren't actually that dominant.

[rjv]

imo, the thompson twins are being graded the way high school football players are giving their ratings by sites like rivals. sometimes, it's all about the metrics and how they demonstrate themselves in 7 on 7 camps. sometimes, there isn't any attention paid to their film or the level of competition; it's just how big, strong and fast they are. i've seen some kids get 5 star ratings and can't understand how they are rated so high. it's a different sport, of course, but i think this is the manner in which the thompsons are being viewed.

[buttsR4rebounding]

speaking of red flags... brandon miller feels like a safer bet to pan out as a good NBA player than Amen

its just so hard to judge Amen other than his traits, because the level of play at OTE is just atrociously bad. its full of high school guys who werent good enough to play in college or G League Ignite. Amen requires a ton of projection, though his traits are somewhat eye popping. i dont hate him, and id probably start considering him anywhere past #3. but with him, you are looking at a guy who probably is not NBA ready and is legitimately a project. his obvious comp is ben simmons for good and bad reasons.

if Amen had his level of production playing for a college team, his stock would be higher. but we dont have that data point.

his brother feels safer because he at least has a functional jump shot

It makes you wonder why they chose the OTE to play. I am sure they could have gone to the Ignite if they wanted to stay out of school. It really makes you wonder who they are taking advice from. Does anyone know the story here?

[exstatic]

One of my major problems with player ratings is that they get a rating in HS, and everyone clings to that like grim death. VERY rarely do you ever see someone evaluate a former HS wonder and just say "He just didn't work out when he played up one level."

[rjv]

some insight into the thompson twins, why they chose the OTE and the OTE itself. just sharing, not commenting one way or the other.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2023/3/28/23657469/amen-ausar-thompson-twins-2023-nba-draft-overtime-elite

[spurraider21]

some insight into the thompson twins, why they chose the OTE and the OTE itself. just sharing, not commenting one way or the other.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2023/3/28/23657469/amen-ausar-thompson-twins-2023-nba-draft-overtime-elite
we want your comment tho

[rjv]

we want your comment tho

it's an interesting read :toast (Barlow is mentioned-and quoted.)

[The Truth #6]

It's not hard to critique the Thompson and OTE. Definitely lots of risks and question marks. For me, I'm tired of just critiquing the players without context. I mean, eventually we have to pick someone even with their risks (and they all have risks) and picking a role player with pick #4 (let's say) is a risk too.

For me, I'm thinking:

Victor
Scoot
Miller
Amen/Walker
Black
Hendricks
Keyonte George
Cason Wallace
Ausar

[exstatic]

some insight into the thompson twins, why they chose the OTE and the OTE itself. just sharing, not commenting one way or the other.

https://www.theringer.com/nba-draft/2023/3/28/23657469/amen-ausar-thompson-twins-2023-nba-draft-overtime-elite

Interesting read. Two things I've read in the last year still give me pause. Sometime after New Years, they were talking to Pop about Dominick, and he gushed about what a great kid he was and how hard he was working, but then finished with a comment that he really knew nothing about basketball when he walked through the door. Also, Dean stated in his article about the twins that their latest wingspan measurements were 6'6" and 6'7" and not 6'11" or whatever the article quoted. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but this article was in February, and he's not prone to mis-statements, no matter what you think of his takes. That's actually a huge deal. A few years ago, everyone was all over Brandon Clarke, and he was getting late lottery buzz. Everyone assumed that he had a 7'0" wing span because of his NCAA blocks. When it came back at 6'9" (same as his height), he dropped into the 20s on draft day. His last two years in the NCAA, he blocked 2.6 and 3.2 per game. His best NBA year was 1.1, and the rest of the time he was below 1. Lest you think it's a function of minutes, his per/36 and per/40 aren't close, and neither is his blk%. Those short arms are handicapping him in the NBA.

[JPB]

Interesting read. Two things I've read in the last year still give me pause. Sometime after New Years, they were talking to Pop about Dominick, and he gushed about what a great kid he was and how hard he was working, but then finished with a comment that he really knew nothing about basketball when he walked through the door. Also, Dean stated in his article about the twins that their latest wingspan measurements were 6'6" and 6'7" and not 6'11" or whatever the article quoted. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but this article was in February, and he's not prone to mis-statements, no matter what you think of his takes. That's actually a huge deal. A few years ago, everyone was all over Brandon Clarke, and he was getting late lottery buzz. Everyone assumed that he had a 7'0" wing span because of his NCAA blocks. When it came back at 6'9" (same as his height), he dropped into the 20s on draft day. His last two years in the NCAA, he blocked 2.6 and 3.2 per game. His best NBA year was 1.1, and the rest of the time he was below 1. Lest you think it's a function of minutes, his per/36 and per/40 aren't close, and neither is his blk%. Those short arms are handicapping him in the NBA.

Reason why the combine is still important and the new CBA will force any FR projected player to at least be measured (and make ITVs with interested teams I believe).

[TD 21]

I'm not really sure if you fucktards really understand English or what. Sochan started because he understood what he was supposed to do on both sides of the ball. Braham played when he showed the same.

If a #3 pick doesn't know what the fuck he's supposed to do on the court, they're going to move him down a grade until he learns what to do. Going against the fucking lions is fucking stupid at that point, but then you idiots would do that I suppose cuz 'reasons.'

Just pure dumbfuckery. I continually don't understand how this franchise has some of the stupidest 'fans' out there.

:lmao At getting mad because you made an all time dumb comment and got taken to task for it and now have the audacity to call others stupid on top of it.

You can make whatever nebulous, vague claims you want, the reality is Sochan and Branham had significant roles basically from jump because it was obvious they needed to so much so that Pop himself said they (and Wesley) would be "thrown into the fire" in training camp.

It doesn't matter how in over his head the "#3 pick" looks, they will absolutely play a significant role from the jump too.

[Mr. Body]

:lmao At getting mad because you made an all time dumb comment and got taken to task for it and now have the audacity to call others stupid on top of it.

You can make whatever nebulous, vague claims you want, the reality is Sochan and Branham had significant roles basically from jump because it was obvious they needed to so much so that Pop himself said they (and Wesley) would be "thrown into the fire" in training camp.

It doesn't matter how in over his head the "#3 pick" looks, they will absolutely play a significant role from the jump.

You work for EA Sports, don't you?

[Joseph Kony]

Mrs. Body getting regulated for her retarded takes per par :lmao

[Chinook]

Interesting read. Two things I've read in the last year still give me pause. Sometime after New Years, they were talking to Pop about Dominick, and he gushed about what a great kid he was and how hard he was working, but then finished with a comment that he really knew nothing about basketball when he walked through the door. Also, Dean stated in his article about the twins that their latest wingspan measurements were 6'6" and 6'7" and not 6'11" or whatever the article quoted. I don't agree with all of his opinions, but this article was in February, and he's not prone to mis-statements, no matter what you think of his takes. That's actually a huge deal. A few years ago, everyone was all over Brandon Clarke, and he was getting late lottery buzz. Everyone assumed that he had a 7'0" wing span because of his NCAA blocks. When it came back at 6'9" (same as his height), he dropped into the 20s on draft day. His last two years in the NCAA, he blocked 2.6 and 3.2 per game. His best NBA year was 1.1, and the rest of the time he was below 1. Lest you think it's a function of minutes, his per/36 and per/40 aren't close, and neither is his blk%. Those short arms are handicapping him in the NBA.

Holding him back? Clarke is still a fantastic statistical player in the NBA. He on/offs weren't good this year, though he was still a positive on the court. His defensive impact stats continue to be positive. You aren't completely wrong, in that his deflection stats have never been good in the NBA and that that is likely a function of size. But he's been good for Memphis and was rewarded with a nice second contract. He would've been a fine pick at 19 or even 9. No, I agree that if Thompson ends up like Clarke, he wouldn't be a good pick, and I do think the question of his wingspan would affect his draft stock. But Clarke and to a similar extent Kessler are examples of why you shouldn't ignore hyper production in college players. Stats do matter, not because they will translate completely, but because it shows the different types of skills a player has. That's not a comment on Thompson, but it is something to keep in mind for picks later in the draft.

[exstatic]

Holding him back? Clarke is still a fantastic statistical player in the NBA. He on/offs weren't good this year, though he was still a positive on the court. His defensive impact stats continue to be positive. You aren't completely wrong, in that his deflection stats have never been good in the NBA and that that is likely a function of size. But he's been good for Memphis and was rewarded with a nice second contract. He would've been a fine pick at 19 or even 9. No, I agree that if Thompson ends up like Clarke, he wouldn't be a good pick, and I do think the question of his wingspan would affect his draft stock. But Clarke and to a similar extent Kessler are examples of why you shouldn't ignore hyper production in college players. Stats do matter, not because they will translate completely, but because it shows the different types of skills a player has. That's not a comment on Thompson, but it is something to keep in mind for picks later in the draft.

Nice second contract? For Memphis, maybe. 4/$50 is actually low end.

[Chinook]

Nice second contract? For Memphis, maybe. 4/$50 is actually low end.

It's not low-end. It's more than the MLE. Almost by definition he'll be in the top half of contracts in the league. He's not being paid like a star, but he is being paid like a guy his team is investing in.

[rascal]

:lmao At getting mad because you made an all time dumb comment and got taken to task for it and now have the audacity to call others stupid on top of it.

You can make whatever nebulous, vague claims you want, the reality is Sochan and Branham had significant roles basically from jump because it was obvious they needed to so much so that Pop himself said they (and Wesley) would be "thrown into the fire" in training camp.

It doesn't matter how in over his head the "#3 pick" looks, they will absolutely play a significant role from the jump too.

Mr/Mrs Body is acting like Scoot and Amen are totally worthless players not worthy of even being on the team.

timvp already has said the Spurs are high on both so the Spurs FO is not in agreement and if the Spurs land 2nd or 3rd they will draft one of them.

[offset formation]

It's not low-end. It's more than the MLE. Almost by definition he'll be in the top half of contracts in the league. He's not being paid like a star, but he is being paid like a guy his team is investing in.

Memphis desperately missed him in the playoffs

[offset formation]

Mr/Mrs Body is acting like Scoot and Amen are totally worthless players not worthy of even being on the team.

timvp already has said the Spurs are high on both so the Spurs FO is not in agreement and if the Spurs land 2nd or 3rd they will draft one of them.

Hes right IMO in that I wouldn't draft either in the top like 6 or 7 -- not your description of them being worthless. I think there are at least 5 better players. So many flaws with Amen having more but being longer being the reason I'd take him one spot higher. I don't see them being all-stars, at least certainly not perennial all-stars. Too many questions in their games.

[rascal]

Hes right IMO in that I wouldn't draft either in the top like 6 or 7 -- not your description of them being worthless. I think there are at least 5 better players. So many flaws with Amen having more but being longer being the reason I'd take him one spot higher. I don't see them being all-stars, at least certainly not perennial all-stars. Too many questions in their games.

Everyone has their top choices.

What are yours?

[exstatic]

It's not low-end. It's more than the MLE. Almost by definition he'll be in the top half of contracts in the league. He's not being paid like a star, but he is being paid like a guy his team is investing in.

DeJounte got $14M more over 4 years after missing a season with a blown ACL, three years earlier. As far as FRP extensions go, it IS low end. Not sure I’ve even heard of a lower one that was signed, although the one Lonnie turned down probably was.

[offset formation]

Evaryone has their top choices.

What are yours?


Wemby. And then...

Bilal Coulibaly is my second. Improving game, best man defender in the draft which we desperately need.

Cam Whitmore. Similar body and athleticism to Bilal. Plays both ways.

Miler.

Jerace.

Hoping like he'll we don't draft lower than 3rd because I think the talent drops and the questions increase with each lower pick.

[rascal]

1.Wemby
2. Scoot
3. Cam Whitmore
4. Amen Thompson
5. Ausar Thompson
6. Jordan Hawkins
7. Jalen Hood Shifino

I'm swinging for athleticism and offensive upside with the first pick.

With the second pick I'll take a more defensive minded player who can be a solid rotation player like Andre Jackson but I'm not burning a first round pick on that type of limited offensive upside player.

[exstatic]

Wemby. And then...

Bilal Coulibaly is my second. Improving game, best man defender in the draft which we desperately need.

Cam Whitmore. Similar body and athleticism to Bilal. Plays both ways.

Miler.

Jerace.

Hoping like he'll we don't draft lower than 3rd because I think the talent drops and the questions increase with each lower pick.

He didn’t declare.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2023-nba-draft-242-players-declare-for-draft-led-by-french-star-victor-wembanyama-gonzagas-drew-timme/

[rascal]

He didn’t declare.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2023-nba-draft-242-players-declare-for-draft-led-by-french-star-victor-wembanyama-gonzagas-drew-timme/

I read in the first paragraph that he did declare.

[exstatic]

I read in the first paragraph that he did declare.

Conflicting information, then, because he’s not on the comprehensive list below their CBS top 50 list.

[rascal]

Conflicting information, then, because he’s not on the comprehensive list below their CBS top 50 list.

They forgot to add him.

[offset formation]

He didn’t declare.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2023-nba-draft-242-players-declare-for-draft-led-by-french-star-victor-wembanyama-gonzagas-drew-timme/


No I saw a thing on Twitter like 10 days ago where he did. I think he did it like a day or two before Wemby did actually

[BackHome]

I don’t think so his name is not on the official NBA combine list?

[Ariel]

Conflicting information, then, because he’s not on the comprehensive list below their CBS top 50 list.
He's not on CBS' Top 50 list, but he is on the entry list. Those 2 are not one and the same. Use your browsers' search function and you'll find him in a few seconds.

[Chinook]

DeJounte got $14M more over 4 years after missing a season with a blown ACL, three years earlier. As far as FRP extensions go, it IS low end. Not sure I’ve even heard of a lower one that was signed, although the one Lonnie turned down probably was.

So in your mind, signing an extension above the MLE is worse than not getting an extension and then signing for less than the MLE? Are you sure you wouldn't like to pick a different hill to die on?

[exstatic]

So in your mind, signing an extension above the MLE is worse than not getting an extension and then signing for less than the MLE? Are you sure you wouldn't like to pick a different hill to die on?

I never said anything close to that. I think you know that, and deliberately misconstrued my words to mask your awful take. Wondering what Lonnie’s extension offer was is far different from advocating for rejecting it and signing a QO level offer.

One of the few things I would do differently than I did originally on this board would be to NOT recommend you to LJ to moderate the Think Tank. Everyone has a brain fart on occasion, and that was a doozy.

[offset formation]

Wondering how many of you guys have seen what this kid can do? To me , 30 seconds of scanning his year over year stats combined with even a cursory glimpse of his height and reach, skills, and athletic abilities should convince you he's ahead of Scoot, Thompson twins, Miller, etc. Not sure if I've been this high on a kid in a while. Outside of Wemby he's a #1 pick. His rim attacking and Eurostep remind me of Manu. In fact I can't imagine PATFO isn't seeing this shit too. He's special. He's gonna be really good.

Do yourself a favor and watch some highlights and scan his stats. And the things he's not good at now, like TOs is precisely the kind of thing that good coaching can change unlike shooting or defensive instinct.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451?s=19

https://twitter.com/fra_sempru/status/1633819880557535233?s=19

https://twitter.com/basket_reportfr/status/1633190166566170627?s=19

https://twitter.com/homahoops/status/1647608285439184896?s=19

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1652862953522184198?s=19

Mocks have him going to Jazz. He's exactly the kind of pick Will Hardy will get and rape us with for the next 15 years. Would love to get #1, grab Wembanyama then trade back up and get Bilal.

[Chinook]

I never said anything close to that. I think you know that, and deliberately misconstrued my words to mask your awful take. Wondering what Lonnie’s extension offer was is far different from advocating for rejecting it and signing a QO level offer.

I didn't give a shit about your Lonnie argument man. I didn't reference it and won't do so again. No one was talking about Lonnie's contract. The point is that getting an extension for above-average money is not a "low-end" contract. He's literally one of 10 players from his class that got offered one (and no, not the smallest, as that went to Little). He will get paid more over the next four years than most of the players who didn't get extensions. It's a good sum that shows a team is invested in a player. No, Clarke is not a star, but he's been a fine pick and player for him. His numbers bare that out, even though his block and steal numbers aren't good enough for you. That's the point, that Clarke has a good contract that he wouldn't've gotten had he been a worse player. It has nothing to do with Lonnie or anyone else. Just Clarke being a good player who has limitations and certainly not a cautionary tale that should inform why Amen should be discounted.

I do think you should let the Clarke thing go. I'm glad the Spurs have Sochan now, but Clarke would've been a good pick for the Spurs, especially seeing as they had a need for a win-now player with defensive chops on a cheap contract. I wouldn't advocate giving him a big deal now, but they could've used him in the LMA/DMDR era. I wish Samanic would've worked out too, given he was actually on the team. I tried to believe he was going to turn it around right up until he was cut. But it wasn't to be. We should be able to let that debate die and just deal with the players as they are.


One of the few things I would do differently than I did originally on this board would be to NOT recommend you to LJ to moderate the Think Tank. Everyone has a brain fart on occasion, and that was a doozy.

So wait, because I disagree with you on some draft and development philosophy, you believe one of your biggest mistakes on this forum was having me approve threads on a sub-forum so obscure that many STers have no idea it exists? I mean I guess I'm sorry I take up so much space in your head that you would prioritize taking something from me (and instead having it be unused at a time when it was actually important) as your main use of ST-related time travel. I can't say I have that kind of animosity toward you. Heck, I don't have any toward you. I do think folks like you and Bod are oversensitive and take your defense of the Spurs past the point of reason sometimes, and that you in particular with go into modes where you're explicitly condescending for no reason. But I don't even dislike you, let alone want to exclude you from anything. That's just weird man.

[rascal]

He has a slow release on his shot. He even pauses on it.

[Chinook]

Wondering how many of you guys have seen what this kid can do? To me , 30 seconds of scanning his year over year stats combined with even a cursory glimpse of his height and reach, skills, and athletic abilities should convince you he's ahead of Scoot, Thompson twins, Miller, etc. Not sure if I've been this high on a kid in a while. Outside of Wemby he's a #1 pick. His rim attacking and Eurostep remind me of Manu. In fact I can't imagine PATFO isn't seeing this shit too. He's special. He's gonna be really good.

Do yourself a favor and watch some highlights and scan his stats. And the things he's not good at now, like TOs is precisely the kind of thing that good coaching can change unlike shooting or defensive instinct.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451?s=19

https://twitter.com/fra_sempru/status/1633819880557535233?s=19

https://twitter.com/basket_reportfr/status/1633190166566170627?s=19

https://twitter.com/homahoops/status/1647608285439184896?s=19

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1652862953522184198?s=19

Mocks have him going to Jazz. He's exactly the kind of pick Will Hardy will get and rape us with for the next 15 years. Would love to get #1, grab Wembanyama then trade back up and get Bilal.

I don't think there's any way in hell the Spurs would pick him at two. Now to be consistent with what I said, if they truly believed he was BPA, I'd want them to pick him unless an absolutely safe trade was found. But he feels like a guy they could use their picks to trade up as a second first rather than taking with their first. SF is a position with long-term potential. But I don't have it as a position the team needs to target explicitly right now.

[offset formation]

He has a slow release on his shot. He even pauses on it.

Yes, he's got a bit of hiccup in his shot. Buuuut, his release is smooth. Like I said, the things he's not good at are things that COACHING can actually correct. If you can't shoot or have the desire or instincts to play defense or have that innate ability to make people miss, you cannot coach that into 95% of players.

The things he's got, just need some tweaking. But his man defense is ELITE. He's a two way player. And a three level above the rim scorer with incredible leaps. You don't coach that either. He's gonna be an all star. Dude is 18. And got waaay better since he was 17. He's exactly what a scout looks for.

I don't think there's anyway he makes it past the 4th or 5th pick I'd these scouts and front offices know a furking thing.

[rascal]

Yes, he's got a bit of hiccup in his shot. Buuuut, his release is smooth. Like I said, the things he's not good at are things that COACHING can actually correct. If you can't shoot or have the desire or instincts to play defense or have that innate ability to make people miss, you cannot coach that into 95% of players.

The things he's got, just need some tweaking. But his man defense is ELITE. He's a two way player. And a three level above the rim scorer with incredible leaps. You don't coach that either. He's gonna be an all star. Dude is 18. And got waaay better since he was 17. He's exactly what a scout looks for.

I don't think there's anyway he makes it past the 4th or 5th pick I'd these scouts and front offices know a furking thing.

He's not bad but other prospects have more upside for when the spurs will be drafting top 5 most likely.

[Mr. Body]

Yes, he's got a bit of hiccup in his shot. Buuuut, his release is smooth. Like I said, the things he's not good at are things that COACHING can actually correct. If you can't shoot or have the desire or instincts to play defense or have that innate ability to make people miss, you cannot coach that into 95% of players.

The things he's got, just need some tweaking. But his man defense is ELITE. He's a two way player. And a three level above the rim scorer with incredible leaps. You don't coach that either. He's gonna be an all star. Dude is 18. And got waaay better since he was 17. He's exactly what a scout looks for.

I don't think there's anyway he makes it past the 4th or 5th pick I'd these scouts and front offices know a furking thing.

The draft process is pretty weird. It starts so early and players develop a 'history' of being associated with certain slots or portions of the draft. There is definitely movement, a Kobe Bufkin moving up, a Nick Smith Jr. moving down, but especially the top gets gummed up with 'accepted wisdom,' to the point where selecting a player a bit higher than conventional wisdom draws ridicule.

This seems to be a matter of fan bases falling in love with the myth and hype of players, GMs not wanting to stick their necks out, and even owners following trends. And then draft gurus want to get their clicks and subscribes so never go against the grain, either.

If you actually start the draft process later, or even got all the players in a gym at once and really hashed it out, things would likely be much different. No one has the balls to broadcast their doubts or supports.

I have no opinion on Coulibaly, but it seems very clear he's stuck in a certain portion of the draft. There's a chance he might start getting a push but I don't know.

[Mr. Body]

Also, French perimeter players haven't exactly been setting the world on fire lately. This must suppress the interest somewhat.

[offset formation]

Also, French perimeter players haven't exactly been setting the world on fire lately. This must suppress the interest somewhat.

That's gonna change with these 18 year old and under Frenchman coming this year and next. Some really good looking special athletes that are solid defenders and super athletic


https://twitter.com/HassleFreeT/status/1554469496445968387?s=19

[rascal]

That's gonna change with these 18 year old and under Frenchman coming this year and next. Some really good looking special athletes that are solid defenders and super athletic


https://twitter.com/HassleFreeT/status/1554469496445968387?s=19

I see five white guys on that other team. Is the competition all that great in that league. Looks weak

No defense from that other team.

Beating on a team of athletically challenged white guys.

[offset formation]

I see five white guys on that other team. Is the competition all that great in that league. Looks weak

No defense from that other team.

Beating on a team of athletically challenged white guys.

Lol. You're gonna piss off daboom. Not sure who they're playing. Looks like international competition for under 18s probably from last year because Bilal is now 18.

[mo7888]

Wondering how many of you guys have seen what this kid can do? To me , 30 seconds of scanning his year over year stats combined with even a cursory glimpse of his height and reach, skills, and athletic abilities should convince you he's ahead of Scoot, Thompson twins, Miller, etc. Not sure if I've been this high on a kid in a while. Outside of Wemby he's a #1 pick. His rim attacking and Eurostep remind me of Manu. In fact I can't imagine PATFO isn't seeing this shit too. He's special. He's gonna be really good.

Do yourself a favor and watch some highlights and scan his stats. And the things he's not good at now, like TOs is precisely the kind of thing that good coaching can change unlike shooting or defensive instinct.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451?s=19

https://twitter.com/fra_sempru/status/1633819880557535233?s=19

https://twitter.com/basket_reportfr/status/1633190166566170627?s=19

https://twitter.com/homahoops/status/1647608285439184896?s=19

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1652862953522184198?s=19

Mocks have him going to Jazz. He's exactly the kind of pick Will Hardy will get and rape us with for the next 15 years. Would love to get #1, grab Wembanyama then trade back up and get Bilal.

He looks like a good pick between 15 and 25. If he shines in individual workouts he might get a couple looks around #10, but it too early to tell..

[Dejounte]

Wondering how many of you guys have seen what this kid can do? To me , 30 seconds of scanning his year over year stats combined with even a cursory glimpse of his height and reach, skills, and athletic abilities should convince you he's ahead of Scoot, Thompson twins, Miller, etc. Not sure if I've been this high on a kid in a while. Outside of Wemby he's a #1 pick. His rim attacking and Eurostep remind me of Manu. In fact I can't imagine PATFO isn't seeing this shit too. He's special. He's gonna be really good.

Do yourself a favor and watch some highlights and scan his stats. And the things he's not good at now, like TOs is precisely the kind of thing that good coaching can change unlike shooting or defensive instinct.

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1649054895109181451?s=19

https://twitter.com/fra_sempru/status/1633819880557535233?s=19

https://twitter.com/basket_reportfr/status/1633190166566170627?s=19

https://twitter.com/homahoops/status/1647608285439184896?s=19

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1652862953522184198?s=19

Mocks have him going to Jazz. He's exactly the kind of pick Will Hardy will get and rape us with for the next 15 years. Would love to get #1, grab Wembanyama then trade back up and get Bilal.

Stop relying on highlights and watch full games or long form vids that contain all lowlights like this one:


https://youtu.be/RjmH9WbNHss

There’s little to nothing outstanding with what he has done so far and he looks like an average player when you watch him here.

[offset formation]

Stop relying on highlights and watch full games or long form vids that contain all lowlights like this one:


https://youtu.be/RjmH9WbNHss

There’s little to nothing outstanding with what he has done so far and he looks like an average player when you watch him here.

See, this is why I wonder about how people view other's abilities. And precisely why I said to view his stats in tandem to his highlights or videos.

And not just this year but his year over year. Imagine what he could achieve with another year of development, but this time with Pop’s tutelage...

Average defensive players don't have 2.5 steals per game per 36. His defense is elite because not only does he have excellent lateral movement but his reach is 7'3". He had 9 steals in one game, 6 in another this season. His hops are elite. He's had 12 rebounds in a game. His handles and ability to attack the basket are above average. His 3pt shot has gone from average to above average. He scored 37 points in a game and had multiple others in the 20s. He's a very good passer. Season high of 7 assists...not bad for a SF.

He's a 3 level scorer with impressive defensive instincts. Can you say that about Scoot (or the player you take after Wemby), who most would acknowledge played against inferior talent or at minimum players completely uninterested in playing defense. I think Cam Whitmore is next closest to achieving that ability, btw.

I'm also happy to wager a friendly bet either by submission or with a dollar amount, on who has a better first 3 years. I'm not going anywhere and will be happy to say you've won or pay up, if I'm wrong.

[rjv]

jonathan givony (ESPN) reported that coulibaly declared back on april 20th so not sure how accurate that was (is).

[The Truth #6]

jonathan givony (ESPN) reported that coulibaly declared back on april 20th so not sure how accurate that was (is).

420, so inherently hard to trust.

[offset formation]

jonathan givony (ESPN) reported that coulibaly declared back on april 20th so not sure how accurate that was (is).

I saw his declaration video, on twitter. He's declared.

[barakz21]

After reading that article, I think I’m more open to Amen now. At least the kid is willing to put in the work.

Wemby is my hope still though.

[JPB]

He looks like a good pick between 15 and 25. If he shines in individual workouts he might get a couple looks around #10, but it too early to tell..

I def see him ending up in the lottery, and possibly some team taking a flyer on him.

[The Truth #6]

I’m definitely taking Coulibaly before Grady Dick. I have no hesitation in saying that much.

[spurraider21]

So wait, because I disagree with you on some draft and development philosophy, you believe one of your biggest mistakes on this forum was having me approve threads on a sub-forum so obscure that many STers have no idea it exists? I mean I guess I'm sorry I take up so much space in your head that you would prioritize taking something from me (and instead having it be unused at a time when it was actually important) as your main use of ST-related time travel. I can't say I have that kind of animosity toward you. Heck, I don't have any toward you. I do think folks like you and Bod are oversensitive and take your defense of the Spurs past the point of reason sometimes, and that you in particular with go into modes where you're explicitly condescending for no reason. But I don't even dislike you, let alone want to exclude you from anything. That's just weird man.
while i disagree with his brandon clarke take...

i dont think his reason for the weird Think Tank regret is your disagreement on draft/development philosophy, i think he's upset at your misrepresentation of the contract extension/MLE thing...

"So in your mind, signing an extension above the MLE is worse than not getting an extension and then signing for less than the MLE? Are you sure you wouldn't like to pick a different hill to die on?"

i think his point is your misrepresentation of his argument is so bad that it should disqualify you from mod-hood. though to be fair, i think his argument was disingenuous since he is only ranking Clarke among those FRP's who did receive extensions, while ignoring the bunch who were so bad that they didnt even get an extension at all.

[Chinook]

while i disagree with his brandon clarke take...

i dont think his reason for the weird Think Tank regret is your disagreement on draft/development philosophy, i think he's upset at your misrepresentation of the contract extension/MLE thing...

"So in your mind, signing an extension above the MLE is worse than not getting an extension and then signing for less than the MLE? Are you sure you wouldn't like to pick a different hill to die on?"

i think his point is your misrepresentation of his argument is so bad that it should disqualify you from mod-hood. though to be fair, i think his argument was disingenuous since he is only ranking Clarke among those FRP's who did receive extensions, while ignoring the bunch who were so bad that they didnt even get an extension at all.

I didn't misrepresent his argument. He said Clarke had a small contract and then cited only extensions. My comment had nothing to do with Walker. It was that Clarke made more on his extension than free agents will make with the MLE. $52M/4 is above the average NBA salary. That some player like Murray or other guys in Clarke's cohort earned more doesn't justify his take that it was a low-end deal. It wasn't. That he added a non-sequitur about Walker doesn't change anything.

But you're right that he likely did assume I was talking about that. I should've been clear that I was referring to what kind of money the average free agent notably the ones who didn't get extensions - - will be looking at this summer. Clarke got a deal big enough to keep him from testing free agency, which show Memphis values him. His lack of length has affected his play somewhat, but he's not struggling to make an impact.

[rjv]

here comes the draft hype: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37570826/thompson-twins-amen-ausar-ready-introduce-nba

[The Truth #6]

Those hype stories feel like they are written as advertisements or favors to agents or something.

[rascal]

The Spurs are getting the first pick.

There won't be any uncertainty with their pick.

I can't see any other player on the Spurs but I can see Wembanyama wearing a Spur jersey.

[DPG21920]

1658293926384783365

[mo7888]

1658293926384783365

Ausar had a little better measurements....that surprised me...

[SpursGenius]

If he could shoot he would be best player in draft assuming Wemby has injury issues with that body.

[The Truth #6]

If the FO comes down to a choice between Amen and Miller, I imagine they are debating rolling the dice on: Amen's lack of jumper vs Miller's possible character issues. To me, they go with Amen. But we'll see. Lots of other factors they debate that we as fans will never be privy to, I would guess.

[Mr. Body]

To me, other than the character issues and how he didn't show out in the tournament, the big question is Jabari Smith, Jr.

I wasn't a fan of Smith at #3 last draft and the year proved that skepticism warranted. Although he started showing more late in the season, he's sitll a player who needs to be activated by other players and doesn't do much even then. A very high salary cost 3-and-D player. I don't think Miller is much different. If he doesn't hit his shots, what does he do?

EDIT: That was supposed to be in the Brandon Miller thread.

[The Truth #6]

That’s a fair point and makes you think Hendricks is possibly the better alternative.