Bucks Fire Mike Budenholzer

[spurraider21]

possible reunion?

1654242113176104965

[BatManu20]

My money’s definitely on Coach Bud being Pop’s successor. Good friend of Pop’s and spent 17 years as an Assistant here so the organization is very familiar with him and likely comfortable handing him the reigns imo.

[exstatic]

My money’s definitely on Coach Bud being Pop’s predecessor.

Coach Pop’s predecessor was Bob Hill.

[BatManu20]

Coach Pop’s predecessor was Bob Hill.

Damn didn’t even give me a chance to correct it lol. But yes, FI.

[TDomination]

honestly, i could most definitely see him coming here.

[Chinook]

Feels like a good time to take a year off from coaching or maybe flitting around as Pop's assistant. He may want the distraction, but he showed his head wasn't in it during that loss. Give it sime time, IMO. Don't know that I'd want him coaching the Spurs at this point though. Feels like a job for a younger couch

[TDomination]

dude lost his brother during the series
giannis was injured
the bucks were ripe for the taking

it happened to the spurs in 2011
manu injured last game of season
memphis took advantage

[exstatic]

Feels like a good time to take a year off from coaching or maybe flitting around as Pop's assistant. He may want the distraction, but he showed his head wasn't in it during that loss. Give it sime time, IMO. Don't know that I'd want him coaching the Spurs at this point though. Feels like a job for a younger couch

His brother died of injuries from a car crash between the elimination game and the previous game.

[cd98]

I think it's unfair to fire him given that they had the best record during the regular season and an unfortunate injury and a major off the court distraction were likely the reason for their poor showing in the first round. But overall, I think it was time for both to part ways. The Bucks are in for a painful summer anyway as they look to be competitive while considering giving big contracts to players on the wrong side of 30.

[Chinook]

His brother died of injuries from a car crash between the elimination game and the previous game.

... Did you think I didn't know that? I was like the first person to comment on that thread.

[BatManu20]

Nick Nurse seems like the obvious replacement. But they might promote from within Assistant Coach Charles Lee a shot, in which case Nick Nurse is still the hottest name on the market.

[lefty20]

Nick Nurse seems like the obvious replacement. But they might promote from within Assistant Coach Charles Lee a shot, in which case Nick Nurse is still the hottest name on the market.

Raptors fans will finally get their wish of wanting to see Giannis being coached by Nurse.

[Uriel]

Come back to San Antonio, Bud.

[John B]

Damn I read Cham tweet last night but thought it was fake. Well that’s dumb and Spurs gain.

[JPB]

Don't know where his head is, but he's spurs family. there always will be a place for him here, and he could indeed be Pop's successor.

[LeBowen]

He has his flaws, but I don't think Nurse will do much better with current Bucks core.

Bud is a good coach, but ultimately his lack of adjustments cost him. Not just in this series, although Spo running circles around him certainly didn't help.

I think he takes a year off and comes back when Pop is done. By far the best option for young Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

Bucks: "Sucks about your brother. Get the fuck out of here."

[BacktoBasics]

This is a dumb move for the Bucks. Just a shitty thing to do on top of it.

[BatManu20]

Bucks: "Sucks about your brother. Get the fuck out of here."

:lol

[RC_Drunkford]

makes no sense to fire him tbh. He won them a chip, had them as the 1st seed. He clearly did well over there. He definitely got outcoached in that series, but due to him losing his brother and Giannis being injured he should deserve a pass.

[BatManu20]

Firing him just a week after his brother died is pretty cold. But they gotta do whatever they gotta do to make Giannis happy so he doesn’t bail on them next Summer, leaving them to become a poverty franchise once again. I assume he had some say in this.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Surprising considering they've stayed at the top of the East the last 3 seasons. I guess it's Finals or bust for those guys. Their success sits squarely on Giannis, and good teams can coach to defend him in the playoffs. Similar to David's plight here before Tim's arrival, although Giannis probably has a better supporting cast than David ever did, pre-Tim, minus his rookie campaign.

I don't see another coach doing better unless they lure another superstar to Milwaukee.

[baseline bum]

If he's on the market whenever Pop retires I'd love to see the Spurs bring Bud back. I still can't believe he was able to get that Atlanta team to 60 wins.

[Chomag]

WTF??? Why ?

[spurraider21]

If he's on the market whenever Pop retires I'd love to see the Spurs bring Bud back. I still can't believe he was able to get that Atlanta team to 60 wins.
with paul millsap leading scorer lmao

[Extra Stout]

Well there you go. Pop’s successor.

[barakz21]

We might as well get the gang back together - PJ Carleisimo, that bald assistant coach (don’t remember his name). I mean, we have Brett Brown and Pop being Pop will probably hire Bud. It’s a perfect situation for Bud too. He’ll earn a paycheck while chilling and probably not have to deal with much stress, he knows the environment and if Pop retires, he’ll probably hand Bud the keys to the kingdom.

[MultiTroll]

Other then Chip year very underperforming team.

Middleton and Jrue Holliday took huge dump in playoffs.
Dukie Grayson should not have been starting, -period. Just like Pops Pets = Buds Pets?

If he should have been off to grieve for his brother, that's on whoever decided that.
Weren't they down 3-1 by that time anyway, so that excuse holds no water.

If Wama is not coming to the Spurs please do not extend the downward spiral another 10 years.

[scott]

Damn that's cutthroat. Come on home, Bud

[Russ]

Milwaukee, please come with me.

Let's enter the wilderness (don't worry, you're used to it).

[MultiTroll]

:lmao A portion of Spurfan still has no clue how many shortcomings Timmy Duncan covered over.

[DesignatedT]

He's only 53. That is still pretty young compared to other NBA head coaches. Nick Nurse is older for comparison sakes and Ime is 45. Not like he's some old dude.

[Robz4000]

Bring him back imo.

[exstatic]

We might as well get the gang back together - PJ Carleisimo, that bald assistant coach (don’t remember his name). I mean, we have Brett Brown and Pop being Pop will probably hire Bud. It’s a perfect situation for Bud too. He’ll earn a paycheck while chilling and probably not have to deal with much stress, he knows the environment and if Pop retires, he’ll probably hand Bud the keys to the kingdom.

When you get fired as an NBA coach,your contract gets paid out, unless you find other employment. He’ll sit on the sidelines for the next two years and collect his millions.

[slick'81]

Come home mini pop

[Mugen]

Bring him back. Prefer him over Brett tbh.

[jjspur]

I can see coach Bud taking over for Pop when he retires in a year or two or sooner, but I think Nick Nurse takes over in Milwaukee.

[Ocotillo]

Front Office never forgave him for letting Mamu walk........

[illusioNtEk]

Sign him asap... Don't even think about it bruh

[MultiTroll]

Will be very interesting if Nurse indeed gets signed by Milwaukee.


I can see coach Bud taking over for Pop when he retires in a year or two or sooner, but I think Nick Nurse takes over in Milwaukee.
Years with superstar / Championships

Nick Nurse 1 / 1
Buden 5 / 1

Career
Nurse 237 - 170
Budes 484 - 317

Playoffs
Nurse 25 - 16
Bude 56 -48

[Barfunk]

Looks like Giannis probably will want to go to an ESPN-Sponsored big market eventually. All the big stars do.

[spurs1990]

Old man time to hang it up.

[gilmor]

Bucks: "Sucks about your brother. Get the fuck out of here."

This is so typical.. inhumane..

[Chinook]

It seems like Spurs fans think this is a surprise firing. It's really not. Bucks fans have been wanting Bud gone for a while now. He deserves a ton of compassion for what he's going through, but this wasn't a case where they fired him on impulse despite his brother dying. It's the case where Bud went into the playoffs coaching for his job and got an extra week of employment after his brother died. You can argue the Bucks are wrong, but as I said, I'm not sure I'd want him to coach the Spurs.

[bigfan]

Ok Pop, if you are staying hire him as your assistant, if you are leaving then hire him as hc.

[Ditty]

Pretty fucked up what the Bucks did. Can’t believe that awful franchise got lucky with Giannis. He’s probably gone in a few years anyways. As far as Bud the coach he’s mid. Bucks fans seemed to hate him outside of the championship season. If he comes back as an assistant that would be fine but as a future head coach. I am not interested one bit.

[JPB]

If not Bud, who to succeed Pop? Ime is in Houston, Snyder in Atlanta... Becky? I believe Wemby and her would get along well, same with Sochan but not sure spurs would take that road.

[Maddog]

I'm also not too enthusiastic about Coach Bud.
The timing sucks, but as Chinook said he was in all likelihood out the door unless they had a deep run into the playoffs.

There was criticism in ATL also about his lack of in game adjustments. Of course better talent makes your adjustments look better.

[Ice009]

It seems like Spurs fans think this is a surprise firing. It's really not. Bucks fans have been wanting Bud gone for a while now. He deserves a ton of compassion for what he's going through, but this wasn't a case where they fired him on impulse despite his brother dying. It's the case where Bud went into the playoffs coaching for his job and got an extra week of employment after his brother died. You can argue the Bucks are wrong, but as I said, I'm not sure I'd want him to coach the Spurs.

What were the main reasons Bucks fans wanted him gone? Also, pretty shitty question, but at what point of the series was his brother involved in that accident?

[Spurs Homer]

It truly sucks what the bucks did to bud and condolences to bud for losing his brother


but PLEASE do NOT hire bud

he is no better than pop at this stage and looks like he has been on the sauce 24/7 or something is up with his red bloated face

dont wish him any ill will but please spurs

do NOT even think about it….

[td4mvp2k]

not surprised at all. good luck at your next HC shot but it wont be here.

[John B]

That would be quite a reunion with Pop, Brett and Bud, leading the young Spurs back. I really hope they get Wemby and have a splendid time rebuilding back to championship

[Uriel]

Snyder was my first choice to take over for Pop, but Bud is my second choice. My dream scenario is he comes to San Antonio as an assistant for a year, then takes over as head coach next season when Pop retires.

[scott]

That would be quite a reunion with Pop, Brett and Bud, leading the young Spurs back. I really hope they get Wemby and have a splendid time rebuilding back to championship

OR... and hear me out here... Pop, Brett and Bud convince Tim to come out of retirement, re-sign Patty and Danny Green, and we basically make a sequel to Wild Hogs, but with basketball.

[Chinook]

What were the main reasons Bucks fans wanted him gone? Also, pretty shitty question, but at what point of the series was his brother involved in that accident?

Because of the context, what I saw was a lot of complaining about his in-game decision-making and offensive philosophy. My wariness of him is that I think he's a lot like Rick Carlisle. I fear a Bud-led Spurs would have guys like Mamu, Graham and KBD would get a bunch of minutes as the Spurs defy expectations while their young talent withers on the vine. I think Bud's a coach for a team that wants to win regular-season games and tread water. I don't think he's a good coach for a tanking/development situation. Bud would've made sense like three or four years ago. He doesn't anymore.

[Man In Black]

Hypothetically, my preference is ...

Spurs announce the promotion of Manu Ginobili from Special Assistant to the Front Office to Head Coach of Spurs Basketball.

[jjspur]

Its really kind of messed up when they fire the coach because the stars can't hit their 3 pointers, can't hit their free throws, or can't play reasonable defense. We talk about coaches making adjustments but in the end, its the players who do or don't execute the adjustments on the court and eventually lose, sometimes embarrassingly bad.

Coach Bud had a decent run in Milwaukee but considering the talent he had to work with (aside from injuries) , he did underachieve a bit. Still consider him a successful coach and I'm sure he'll land somewhere else, fairly soon if he chooses to.

[timtonymanu]

Hypothetically, my preference is ...

Spurs announce the promotion of Manu Ginobili from Special Assistant to the Front Office to Head Coach of Spurs Basketball.

a MIB sighting. :wow

[JPB]

Hypothetically, my preference is ...

Spurs announce the promotion of Manu Ginobili from Special Assistant to the Front Office to Head Coach of Spurs Basketball.

Manu is also my first choice but not sure he's ready or willing.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Hypothetically, my preference is ...

Spurs announce the promotion of Manu Ginobili from Special Assistant to the Front Office to Head Coach of Spurs Basketball.

That would be awesome. But I also feel that Manu will have to ease himself into coaching and not jump into it. Assisting Bud or Brett Brown once Pop decides to hang his boots would be a good way to start his coaching career.

[dbestpro]

Time to come back home.

[slick'81]

I mean there isnt a more obvious choice for next spurs head coach

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

OR... and hear me out here... Pop, Brett and Bud convince Tim to come out of retirement, re-sign Patty and Danny Green, and we basically make a sequel to Wild Hogs, but with basketball.

Not such a crazy thought! If Tim could have just operated between the three-point lines, and rebounded or defended when he felt like it...similar to many of today's big men, he might have played another 10 years.

You've got to have Manu and Tony on that Wild Hogs team as well. That team wouldn't be able to defend or cover the court anymore, but I bet they'd average 120 pts a game.

[John B]

I mean there isnt a more obvious choice for next spurs head coach

I‘d really prefer Snyder, but he’s on a 5 years contract with the Hawks. And deep inside I’m rooting for Manu if he ever wants to. But Coach Bud would be welcomed back for sure.

[slick'81]

I‘d really prefer Snyder, but he’s on a 5 years contract with the Hawks. And deep inside I’m rooting for Manu if he ever wants to. But Coach Bud would be welcomed back for sure.

i wanted snyder and then udoka but we're running out of options being pop cant coach forever

[Seventyniner]

If Bud just wants to chill as an assistant for a season I'm sure Pop will accommodate him. After that, let the future bring what it may.

[exstatic]

If Bud just wants to chill as an assistant for a season I'm sure Pop will accommodate him. After that, let the future bring what it may.

He gets paid by MIL as long as he doesn't accept other employment. No contest between fired head coach pay and skimpy assistant pay.

[John B]

He gets paid by MIL as long as he doesn't accept other employment. No contest between fired head coach pay and skimpy assistant pay.

That settles it.

[heyheymymy]

Bucks: "Sucks about your brother. Get the fuck out of here."

oh and thanks for the ring, but still, you need to have your desk cleared out by Monday.

wtf wasn't Giannis injured for the series too? Like what do you expect?

[itzsoweezee]

Nick Nurse is definitely not a better coach than Bud

[John B]

I wonder what Giannis has to say about it. I’m sure he was asked prior to the firing. When Mark Jackson was fired, apparently the team was young and has not won a ring despite getting to the playoffs B2B after 20 years.

COTY is odd. There is no other way but down. Nurse, Vogel and now Bud. Only Kerr is left of the most recent championship coaches.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Nick Nurse is definitely not a better coach than Bud

Bud's success with a shitty Atlanta team proves that.

[exstatic]

I wonder what Giannis has to say about it. I’m sure he was asked prior to the firing. When Mark Jackson was fired, apparently the team was young and has not won a ring despite getting to the playoffs B2B after 20 years.

COTY is odd. There is no other way but down. Nurse, Vogel and now Bud. Only Kerr is left of the most recent championship coaches.

At one point, it was a curse. You won it, and were fired in a year or so. Looks like it’s circling back around to that again. Only Pop, and now Kerr, seem to be immune. Multiple championships seems to be the inoculation.

[mo7888]

He gets paid by MIL as long as he doesn't accept other employment. No contest between fired head coach pay and skimpy assistant pay.

Does he lose the whole amount from Milwaukee if he signs elsewhere or just the pro-rated difference?

[exstatic]

Does he lose the whole amount from Milwaukee if he signs elsewhere or just the pro-rated difference?

I don't think it works like the players. You're either employed or not, and you can only collect your remaining salary if you're unemployed. Brett collected his whole bag from PHI, IIRC.

[JPB]

He gets paid by MIL as long as he doesn't accept other employment. No contest between fired head coach pay and skimpy assistant pay.

As a coach, it's important to stay in the biz. You're quickly forgotten or considered obsolete.

[exstatic]

As a coach, it's important to stay in the biz. You're quickly forgotten or considered obsolete.

Normally, yes, but I think there are only 4-5 coaches besides Pop with a championship. Nobody's forgetting Bud in the next two years. I also think if Pop retired and the Spurs offered him the gig, he would take it. It's different forgoing that remaining pay for head coach pay, which would be equivalent.

[Ocotillo]

The guy I want to succeed Pop is Kenny Atkinson because he has demonstrated with his Brooklyn stint that he is good developing a young roster. Thing is, I am hearing he may replace Kerr which is why he did not go to Charlotte when offered.

Borrego?

[mo7888]

I don't think it works like the players. You're either employed or not, and you can only collect your remaining salary if you're unemployed. Brett collected his whole bag from PHI, IIRC.

That's pretty interesting and really changes the perspective...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The guy I want to succeed Pop is Kenny Atkinson because he has demonstrated with his Brooklyn stint that he is good developing a young roster. Thing is, I am hearing he may replace Kerr which is why he did not go to Charlotte when offered.

Borrego?

Borrego proved he's a pretty good coach as well. Charlotte has stunk before and after him at the helm.

[scott]

I don't think it works like the players. You're either employed or not, and you can only collect your remaining salary if you're unemployed. Brett collected his whole bag from PHI, IIRC.

I would have assumed that a fired coach is due the remainder of his contract regardless of whether he takes other employment - that is typically how employment contracts work (and in many cases, the remainder of the contract is due at once upon termination, not over the duration of the now-terminated contract). Of course, every contract is (or can be) different. Is there a coaches union with a CBA or are coaches considered to be independent actors who can negotiate whatever contract they are able?

I don't think we can blanket assume anything about how Coach Bud's contract works unless the NBA operates with standard coaching contracts.

[Maddog]

Borrego proved he's a pretty good coach as well. Charlotte has stunk before and after him at the helm.

I'm good with Borrego
There's some questions about Bud that even preceded Milwaukee. Lack of in game adjustments. Then again he won a title with a team that does have some flaws

[tonight...you]

Why is SpursFan so myopic on guys that have been here before and not simply the best candidate out there available when the time comes?
Just asking.

[BatManu20]

Why is SpursFan so myopic on guys that have been here before and not simply the best candidate out there available when the time comes?
Just asking.

Think it has more to do with what we think is going through PATFO’s minds. They’ve been open over the years about how much they like familiarity. Keeping the same players and coaches together, never having a lot of roster turnover, etc. The fact that Bud coached here for 17 years and is like family to them weighs heavily in his favor. It’s no secret he’s one of Pop’s very best friends. He also has a Championship on his résumé now so it’s not like he’s some bum. If he’s interested in the gig, when the time comes, I’d be surprised if he’s not the guy tbh.

[tonight...you]

Think it has more to do with what we think is going through PATFO’s minds. They’ve been open over the years about how much they like familiarity. Keeping the same players and coaches together, never having a lot of roster turnover, etc. The fact that Bud coached here for 17 years and is like family to them weighs heavily in his favor. It’s no secret he’s one of Pop’s very best friends. He also has a Championship on his résumé now so it’s not like he’s some bum. If he’s interested in the gig, when the time comes, I’d be surprised if he’s not the guy tbh.
Makes sense, but I guess I'm touching on more that Budenholzer. It's like when talking about coaching candidates, only former Spur coaches, or players are mainly brought up.

[Barfunk]

Bud didn't deserve to get fired. He just won a championship for Pete's sake. Colin Coward, who's another big market dick rider like Stephen A Smithe, just said recently that Giannis played a role in getting Bud fired. Don't know how true that is but I definitely can see that he could've had something to do with it. Giannis is not as real as the media tries to portray. He wants to go to the Lakers and or team up in a big market for easy chips just like all the douchebag stars do. He's no different.

[MultiTroll]

Giannis is not as real as the media tries to portray. He wants to go to the Lakers and or team up in a big market for easy chips just like all the douchebag stars do. He's no different.
Giannis Antetokounmpo agrees to 5-year extension with Bucks | NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-agrees-to-extension-milwaukee-bucks)

[ducks]

My money’s definitely on Coach Bud being Pop’s successor. Good friend of Pop’s and spent 17 years as an Assistant here so the organization is very familiar with him and likely comfortable handing him the reigns imo.

Pop wants to destroy sa and coach forever

[slick'81]

Colossal fck up by mil. Spurs need to pounce

[ducks]

Bucks had more balls then spurs
It is what have done lately
He almost was fired before they won it all

What has pop done since 2015

[ducks]

Colossal fck up by mil. Spurs need to pounce

Spurs have no balls orherwise they would have hired Becky and fired poop

[ducks]

How many pop coaching trees have now gotten fired
5-6 ?

[Russ]

Giannis Antetokounmpo agrees to 5-year extension with Bucks | NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-agrees-to-extension-milwaukee-bucks)


That doesn't look good for Bud.

[MultiTroll]

Giannis Antetokounmpo agrees to 5-year extension with Bucks | NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-agrees-to-extension-milwaukee-bucks)



That doesn't look good for Bud.
Ya i don't have the link in front of me but Greek specifically commented on lack of adjustments and specifically how he would have guarded Jimmy Butler on that gawd awful final possesion of regulation. Butler held Conningtons arm down and got the silly last second ally oop. No way in hell Butler pulls that chit on Greek.

Here's the general one from Freak:

“I don’t think as a team we made the right [adjustment], or we didn’t make as many adjustments as we could have against [Jimmy Butler]… For me, I think this has been the worst postseason ever.”

Milwaukee Bucks fire head coach Mike Budenholzer (nbcsports.com) (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2023/05/04/milwaukee-bucks-fire-head-coach-mike-budenholzer/)

[Russ]

That doesn't look good for Bud.

Actually, checking the story, it's from fucking 2020! (Shoulda known.)

[MultiTroll]

Actually, checking the story, it's from fucking 2020! (Shoulda known.)
:rollin Apparently it's happened before.
Might explain why Bucks FO said no more Bud.

[MultiTroll]

At :33 you can see Butler obviously holding Baunnertons arm down.


https://youtu.be/z869UutQkDs

Former coach Sam Mitchell on how you have to have Freak on Butler on that play.

Former Coach of the Year Sam Mitchell says Milwaukee should have let Antetokounmpo guard Butler - Sports Illustrated Milwaukee Bucks News, Analysis and More (https://www.si.com/nba/bucks/news/former-coach-of-the-year-sam-mitchell-says-milwaukee-should-have-let-antetokounmpo-guard-butler)

[Vince Carter's ankle]

How many pop coaching trees have now gotten fired
5-6 ?
Are you so pathetic only on this forum or irl too?

[MultiTroll]

Actually, checking the story, it's from fucking 2020! (Shoulda known.)
Insert:

Bucks' Giannis Antetokounmpo on Jimmy Butler: 'I wish I could've guarded him more' | Sporting News (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/bucks-giannis-antetokounmpo/my1p4dkeowbraaahf9nyn2bl)

1651464129658384384

[Barfunk]

Giannis Antetokounmpo agrees to 5-year extension with Bucks | NBA.com (https://www.nba.com/news/giannis-antetokounmpo-agrees-to-extension-milwaukee-bucks)


And I knew about the recent contract signing. I'm just saying that deep down he probably wants to bolt to a big market eventually via a trade request etc. (though I don't know all the details of the contract) and now he's having the Bucks front office walk on eggshells to maybe find that excuse to go to said big market eventually.

I mean how in the hell are you gonna get your coach fired that you just won a championship with in 2021? How in the hell is he not "your coach" after all that? Guarantee the Bucks won't win shit now from here on out, outside some early playoff exits (maybe some conference finals appearances but I predict no more championships) and Giannis could likely use that as an excuse to bolt to Miami, New York, LA, Golden State etc etc.

Pop haters can say what they want about his coaching tree, but his tree has lots of regular and post season success to include championships across more than one league.

[Barfunk]

To put it into perspective:

Pop's coaching tree has multiple: Coach of the year awards, best record seasons, and championships across more than one basketball league.

Meanwhile, Phil Jackson's coaching tree has Derek Fisher. :lol

[MultiTroll]

And I knew about the recent contract signing. I'm just saying that deep down he probably wants to bolt to a big market eventually via a trade request etc. (though I don't know all the details of the contract) and now he's having the Bucks front office walk on eggshells to maybe find that excuse to go to said big market eventually.

I mean how in the hell are you gonna get your coach fired that you just won a championship with in 2021? How in the hell is he not "your coach" after all that? Guarantee the Bucks won't win shit now from here on out, outside some early playoff exits (maybe some conference finals appearances but I predict no more championships) and Giannis could likely use that as an excuse to bolt to Miami, New York, LA, Golden State etc etc.

Pop haters can say what they want about his coaching tree, but his tree has lots of regular and post season success to include championships across more than one league.
After winning a Chip, how many years of suckage should a head coach be given til an improvement is considered?

Remember when Timmy Dunks came within a Doc Rivers "you can't have your family members flying on the team plane" from joining Orlando?

The myth that he always was and alway would be a Pop loyalist is fairy tale.

Pop rode Tims coatails, not the other way around.

Is Freak the equivalent of Tim. Not so far, although i call his 21 Chip year Duncanlike.
Jrue Holliday and Middlton were GNob and Parker that year. But they both shit the bed this recent playoff ouster.

[daslicer]

To put it into perspective:

Pop's coaching tree has multiple: Coach of the year awards, best record seasons, and championships across more than one basketball league.

Meanwhile, Phil Jackson's coaching tree has Derek Fisher. :lol

Phil can claim Steve Kerr. Kerr is more like Phil as a coach then he is Pop.

[ducks]

To put it into perspective:

Pop's coaching tree has multiple: Coach of the year awards, best record seasons, and championships across more than one basketball league.

Meanwhile, Phil Jackson's coaching tree has Derek Fisher. :lol

The reason to coach is to win titles not to produce coaches for other teams
That is what the spurs pay pop their coach not to Produce coaches for other teams


He needs to spend more time on the players not coaches

[Spursfanfromafar]

Phil can claim Steve Kerr. Kerr is more like Phil as a coach then he is Pop.

Lol. Not true. Kerr's Warriors template has been the 2014 Spurs "Beautiful ball"..except they play that style with two of the greatest shooters of all time, a perennial DPOY contender and an underrated all star who replaced a Top 15 player/all time gunner in Kevin Durant.

[Barfunk]

After winning a Chip, how many years of suckage should a head coach be given til an improvement is considered?

Remember when Timmy Dunks came within a Doc Rivers "you can't have your family members flying on the team plane" from joining Orlando?

The myth that he always was and alway would be a Pop loyalist is fairy tale.

Pop rode Tims coatails, not the other way around.

Is Freak the equivalent of Tim. Not so far, although i call his 21 Chip year Duncanlike.
Jrue Holliday and Middlton were GNob and Parker that year. But they both shit the bed this recent playoff ouster.

As far as the coatails no coach has won without the players. We honestly should've rang in 2017 if it weren't for the dirty play on Kawhi. So we've sucked since what Demar's third season. Pop has done what he could to try and build and move the team forward as evident by the nice tank job this season.

[Barfunk]

Phil can claim Steve Kerr. Kerr is more like Phil as a coach then he is Pop.

As Spursfanfromafar just said, Kerr strikes me more as a Pop type of coach but I'll give you that, maybe 50-50 Phil Claxton and Pop. Kerr has said that Phillip has influenced his coaching but it's clear that Pop has as well, so I'll give that 50-50. Outside of that one piece, Claxton's tree is essentially garbage.

[Barfunk]

The reason to coach is to win titles not to produce coaches for other teams
That is what the spurs pay pop their coach not to Produce coaches for other teams


He needs to spend more time on the players not coaches

Well producing coaches is just something else he's good at. I'd rather he have a good track record there than not. And yes he had the players, but he's got 5 chips in a market ESPN and the other outlets despise, so there's also that. Your boy Pillip Claxton has arguably 4 extra chips via rigged officiating and a rigged lopsided trade to save the Lakers (2000, 2002, 2009, 2010) in the NBA's flagship market where everyone wants to be at.

[JPB]

Haters gotta hate tbh.

[KobesAchilles]

I mean Jackson has 11 rings. Who gives a fuck that nobody else he mentored did well. Phil Jackson never cost his team a championship. I can’t say the same about Pop

[exstatic]

I mean Jackson has 11 rings. Who gives a fuck that nobody else he mentored did well. Phil Jackson never cost his team a championship. I can’t say the same about Pop

2004

[MultiTroll]

2004
From down 0-2 to Spurs to a 4-0 backdoor butt ramming of CIA Pop and the Spurs.

Please continue.

[exstatic]

From down 0-2 to Spurs to a 4-0 backdoor butt ramming of CIA Pop and the Spurs.

Please continue.

They lost to a Detroit team without a superstar, and they had 4.

[MultiTroll]

They lost to a Detroit team without a superstar, and they had 4.
Nice change of subject.

If you're claiming the Lakers roster was better then the Spurs with Prime Timmy Duncar, GNob and Parker......blow.
Stop calling 48 year old Malone, Payton and media created good role player Kirby Bryant superstars.
Phil also named his kidney stone "Kirby" because "it wouldn't pass."
If you're going to fabricate Pop would have somehow reached Kirbys selfishness, just stop.

Simple adjustment was Gary Payton suggesting to Phildo that the Lakers switch to running more pic n roll. They did.
CIA Pop made no counter move.

4-0.

[exstatic]

Nice change of subject.

If you're claiming the Lakers roster was better then the Spurs with Prime Timmy Duncar, GNob and Parker......blow.
Stop calling 48 year old Malone, Payton and media created good role player Kirby Bryant superstars.
Phil also named his kidney stone "Kirby" because "it wouldn't pass."
If you're going to fabricate Pop would have somehow reached Kirbys selfishness, just stop.

Simple adjustment was Gary Payton suggesting to Phildo that the Lakers switch to running more pic n roll. They did.
CIA Pop made no counter move.

4-0.

It was Phil’s fault. He’s supposed to be the Diva whisperer, but he wasn’t in 2004. Not in 2009, either, come to think of it.

[MultiTroll]

It was Phil’s fault. He’s supposed to be the Diva whisperer, but he wasn’t in 2004. Not in 2009, either, come to think of it.
True, he should have benched Kirby in 2004.

But he got them past Pop, right?
And how did Pop n Pets Michael Finley and Bonner do in 2009?

[exstatic]

True, he should have benched Kirby in 2004.

But he got them past Pop, right?
And how did Pop n Pets Michael Finley and Bonner do in 2009?

Now YOU'RE changing the subject, which is championships blown by Pop and Phil. What Pop did or didn't do in 2009 is irrelevant, since Phil screwed the pooch against Boston.

[MultiTroll]

Now YOU'RE changing the subject, which is championships blown by Pop and Phil. What Pop did or didn't do in 2009 is irrelevant, since Phil screwed the pooch against Boston.
I'd rather go with being in 13 Championship series with Timmy Duncs vs getting punked earlier and not making the Finals.
2008 you're blaming Phil for not benching Kirby or what?

[KobesAchilles]

2004
Malone was hurt. Fisher had the worst shooting series of his career. He shot 17% from 3 that series. And really Kobe just went rogue and didn’t listen to a word Phil said. Kobe admitted as such and so did Phil in his book. The dude shot 38% from the field and refused to move the ball the way the triangle was designed to do. And idgaf what anyone says, you can’t bench a superstar for a whole series.

[KobesAchilles]

Meanwhile Pop refused to foul when the Heat needed a three. And he benched his best rebounder on the team when the team needed a rebound. Two colossally stupid things to do

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Pop went to San Antonio Texas and became the winningest coach in the history of the NBA yet people want to throw stones. It's funny in a sad kind of way.


Ask fans in ANY other NBA city if they'd take a coach who could string together 20 years of 50 win seasons with 5 championships thrown in for good measure and they'd say yes. And the coach of that team should have statues erected in his honor.

As someone who was a fan for the 23 years prior to that first championship I can attest to the fact that what the Spurs had was pretty special, and not repeatable.

[rjv]

the habit of handpicking a whit of samples from a much larger volume, in order to support a premise, is a slippery slope-and often is the habit of those with a bias.

[tonight...you]

I'd rather go with being in 13 Championship series with Timmy Duncs vs getting punked earlier and not making the Finals.
2008 you're blaming Phil for not benching Kirby or what?
I'm actually wondering how the Triangle would have fit Timmy with Parker and Manu.
Probably like a glove, but then I also think Phil probably wouldn't have let the team draft Tony, or Manu.

[ambchang]

I’m dismayed that pop made big mistakes in his quarter of a century of coaching. Come to think of it, duncan is a freaking scrub because he missed a ft.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I wonder what Giannis has to say about it. I’m sure he was asked prior to the firing. When Mark Jackson was fired, apparently the team was young and has not won a ring despite getting to the playoffs B2B after 20 years.

COTY is odd. There is no other way but down. Nurse, Vogel and now Bud. Only Kerr is left of the most recent championship coaches.

Freak: Yeah, Bud has got to go. He didn’t make any adjustments to stop me from missing 13 free throws in a close-out game we lost by 2 points.

[ducks]

Thoughts on his chances being suns new coach

[mo7888]

Monty deserved better...

[ducks]

Why
2 season ended with blowout losses and no heart

It is about winning


I think he also is holding Ayton back


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-parting-ways-with-head-coach-monty-williams-after-four-seasons/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

[ducks]

Get a coach that will pound the ball inside. There was plenty of times Landale and Ayton were open but they ran a different play that made them shoot jumpers. And he should've developed Ayton more. More physical. That is on him for not pushing it.

[Robz4000]

Monty deserved better...

Yop. Not his fault CP0 is made of glass and Ayton would rather play video games.

[Mr. Body]

Five times in NBA history has a team been down by thirty by halftime in series losses at home. Two of those were last year and this year for the Suns.

It's a team of losers who added a loser in Durant. But someone's gotta go.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Monty Williams got the axe also

[ducks]

Yop. Not his fault CP0 is made of glass and Ayton would rather play video games.

He did not talk to him from game 7 to training camp
Hd should have been fired last year
He is a coach
Monty should have told suns it is him or me last year if he refused to coach him

[ducks]

Yop. Not his fault CP0 is made of glass and Ayton would rather play video games.

Why you plan on cp3 being hurt in playoffs

[mo7888]

Why
2 season ended with blowout losses and no heart

It is about winning


I think he also is holding Ayton back


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/suns-parting-ways-with-head-coach-monty-williams-after-four-seasons/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Because he's the winningest coach in the nba since 2021

The idea that losing to Denver, who has better talent right now, is a fireable offense is silly. CP3 was out again and is old and slowing down when he is playing...they are only 4 players deep.... etc, etc....

I'm just glad their new owner is calling the shots... it's going to create very nice opportunities for others...

[Robz4000]

He did not talk to him from game 7 to training camp
Hd should have been fired last year
He is a coach
Monty should have told suns it is him or me last year if he refused to coach him

Suns never should've brought Ayton back tbh. The entire team disliked him; only reason they extended him was because Sarver had sunk cost fallacy. You also don't fire a coach a year after making the Finals.

[ducks]

Suns never should've brought Ayton back tbh. The entire team disliked him; only reason they extended him was because Sarver had sunk cost fallacy. You also don't fire a coach a year after making the Finals.


This is a result league
Suns made a big move to get to the finals this year
They did not even get to the wcf

They got blown out at home

Someone had to go

[Robz4000]

This is a result league
Suns made a big move to get to the finals this year
They did not even get to the wcf

They got blown out at home

Someone had to go

Ayton and CP0. I called Monty getting fired in the playoffs thread downstairs during the game tbh, so it isn't a surprise. Just saying it shouldn't of been him.

[CGD]

Definitely the fall guy unfortunately. Hard to move Ayton’s pathetic ass now after the extension, and i don’t think they have the balls to simply waive Paul’s partially guaranteed deal.

[ducks]

So the coach who is suppose to mental train someone benches a player doing the last game they play
He refuses to talk to said player tell training camp


I would have fired the coach or traded Ayton last year


Name 4 -5 centers better then Ayton

[Robz4000]

So the coach who is suppose to mental train someone benches a player doing the last game they play
He refuses to talk to said player tell training camp


I would have fired the coach or traded Ayton last year


Name 4 -5 centers better then Ayton

Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Vucevic
Nurkic
Gobert
Valančiūnas
Turner
Allen
Sabonis

[ducks]

FLEX From Jersey
@FlexFromJersey
·
Follow
And there you have it,The Suns and Monty Williams parts ways! This was not a surprise as I was told by multiple sources both sides were heading in a different directions �� A new era of Suns Basketball is coming and Mat Ishbia is going to be extremely aggressive going forward ��

[ducks]

Bucks and suns both have new owners

[bluebellmaniac]

Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Vucevic
Nurkic
Gobert
Valančiūnas
Turner
Allen
Sabonis

Gobert listed TWICE! Daaaaammmnnnn.... That a hella lot better!

[Robz4000]

Gobert listed TWICE! Daaaaammmnnnn.... That a hella lot better!

:lol

[MultiTroll]

I'm actually wondering how the Triangle would have fit Timmy with Parker and Manu.
Probably like a glove, but then I also think Phil probably wouldn't have let the team draft Tony, or Manu.
Agree like a glove. Duncan is one of the best big men passers ever. GNob is also super elite.
Porkers I'm sure would fall in line.

A strong organization wouldn't "let" Phildo block the drafting of Tony and Manu.
Altho sometimes coaches are spot on regarding personnel moves.
In fact that was the downfall of Lakers ABC Shaq Era. Phil said trade Kobme and owner sided with punk ass Kobme. 4 years of misery before they pulled the MVP Pau scam.

[MultiTroll]

Thoughts on his chances being suns new coach
Don't think Suns new owner drinks the Pop Tree koolaid.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Vucevic
Nurkic
Gobert
Valančiūnas
Turner
Allen
Sabonis

Add Anthony Davis, Poeltl to this too

[daslicer]

Suns never should've brought Ayton back tbh. The entire team disliked him; only reason they extended him was because Sarver had sunk cost fallacy. You also don't fire a coach a year after making the Finals.

They made the Finals 2 years ago. During these last 2 years they have been blown out on their homecourt in elimination games. It's clear that Monty lost the locker room.

[John B]

Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Vucevic
Nurkic
Gobert
Valančiūnas
Turner
Allen
Sabonis

B-but Jak is a top 10 center :lol

[Drom John]

Name 4 -5 centers better then Ayton

1) Mitchell Robinson was the best FA center last year.

2) Flipping your question; the only centers who played worse than Ayton this year with minimum 1133 minutes played, and note that they are all PF/C.

26. Jakob Poeltl
34. Zach Collins

48. Deandre Ayton
49. Trendon Watford
50. John Collins
51. Marcus Morris
52. P.J. Washington
53. Jalen Smith
54. Bol Bol
55. Jabari Smith

[Ariel]

B-but Jak is a top 10 center :lol
I'd take over Poeltl right now and for the future:
Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Myles Turner
Jarrett Allen
Kessler (even right now he's up there)

I wouldn't take over Poeltl:
Ayton (overrated and HORRENDOUS contract)
Robert Williams (injuries)
Steven Adams
Capela
Mitchell Robinson
Looney
Zubac
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Nurkic
Landale

Could be taken over Poeltl right now depending on the system:
Brook Lopez (effective in a very specific role)
Porzingis (not true C)

Could MAYBE be taken over Poeltl if only concerned with upside:
Mark Williams
Duren

[TD 21]

I'd take over Poeltl right now and for the future:
Jokic
Embiid
Adebayo
Gobert
Myles Turner
Jarrett Allen
Kessler (even right now he's up there)

I wouldn't take over Poeltl:
Ayton (overrated and HORRENDOUS contract)
Robert Williams (injuries)
Steven Adams
Capela
Mitchell Robinson
Looney
Zubac
Vucevic
Valanciunas
Nurkic
Landale

Could be taken over Poeltl right now depending on the system:
Brook Lopez (effective in a very specific role)
Porzingis (not true C)

Could MAYBE be taken over Poeltl if only concerned with upside:
Mark Williams
Duren

Ayton has a higher ceiling than Poeltl when he's not pouting (see '21), but fair enough.

Davis and Sabonis are C's and they're no longer even playing next to other bigs.

Towns, Jackson Jr., Mobley and Horford are at times, but they're also C's.

Why mention Landale but not Carter Jr., Claxton or Sengun?

[Ariel]

Ayton has a higher ceiling than Poeltl when he's not pouting (see '21), but fair enough.

Davis and Sabonis are C's and they're no longer even playing next to other bigs.

Towns, Jackson Jr., Mobley and Horford are at times, but they're also C's.

Why mention Landale but not Carter Jr., Claxton or Sengun?
I mentioned full time C. Towns, Jackson Jr, Mobley and Horford CAN play center but DON'T USUALLY do so (Gobert, Adams, Allen and Robert Williams do). So I don't see them as straight up, fair comparison for Poeltl. Anthony Davis and Sabonis are somewhere in between, but could be considered true centers.
Sengun isn't a natural center either, but could be included. the Only omission would be Carter Jr. and Claxton, which would be below Poeltl but with potential to surpass him. Landale was included because he outplayed Ayton more than anything, but it wasn't supposed to include every center in the league, mainly starting caliber centers of some relevance. Point remains, Poeltl is an ABOVE AVERAGE starting center right now.

[TD 21]

I mentioned full time C. Towns, Jackson Jr, Mobley and Horford CAN play center but DON'T USUALLY do so (Gobert, Adams, Allen and Robert Williams do). So I don't see them as straight up, fair comparison for Poeltl. Anthony Davis and Sabonis are somewhere in between, but could be considered true centers.
Sengun isn't a natural center either, but could be included. the Only omission would be Carter Jr. and Claxton, which would be below Poeltl but with potential to surpass him. Landale was included because he outplayed Ayton more than anything, but it wasn't supposed to include every center in the league, mainly starting caliber centers of some relevance. Point remains, Poeltl is an ABOVE AVERAGE starting center right now.

I don't see that, but either way, as I said, Davis and Sabonis are now full time C's (Horford mostly has been this season again too) and why base it on current roster context rather than the NBA ecosystem as a whole? Being able to play some next to another C doesn't make them PF's.

Sengun is clearly a C in today's game (can't stretch the floor and struggles defending in space) and I mentioned those three omissions in comparison to Landale for the point you just made.

[Ariel]

I don't see that, but either way, as I said, Davis and Sabonis are now full time C's (Horford mostly has been this season again too) and why base it on current roster context rather than the NBA ecosystem as a whole? Being able to play some next to another C doesn't make them PF's.

Sengun is clearly a C in today's game (can't stretch the floor and struggles defending in space) and I mentioned those three omissions in comparison to Landale for the point you just made.
Horford was a C when Robert Williams went out due to injury, when they're both together he plays PF. Sabonis played alongisde Myles Turner many years, Anthony Davis also played alongside many other centers, he's not a full time C (even if for the mere fact that he can't stand the punishment to long). Sengun struggles defending period, not just on the perimeter. Again, this is nitpicking, the point was to make a general, off the top of my head ranking of Poeltl among the NBA centers. None of that changes the conclusion that he's comfortably above average, and arguably (even if borderline) top 10, even with Davis and Sabonis included.

[TD 21]

Horford was a C when Robert Williams went out due to injury, when they're both together he plays PF. Sabonis played alongisde Myles Turner many years, Anthony Davis also played alongside many other centers, he's not a full time C (even if for the mere fact that he can't stand the punishment to long). Sengun struggles defending period, not just on the perimeter. Again, this is nitpicking, the point was to make a general, off the top of my head ranking of Poeltl among the NBA centers. None of that changes the conclusion that he's comfortably above average, and arguably (even if borderline) top 10, even with Davis and Sabonis included.

Again, you're going context dependent, which absolutely changes that conclusion because other than the last group I mentioned, they're all better than him, either clearly so or due to malleability/upside.