10 Random Thoughts

[TD 21]

Beat that, timvp! :p:

Now that I've somewhat recovered from a state of utter shock, I'm not bothering sifting through the rubble, so here goes . . .

- I've never been a believer "everything happens for a reason" and "karma", but this is nothing if not "poetic justice". . . it's also too convenient (I was reverse jinxing it all along) and lends further credence to it being rigged, but don't tell anybody.

- Scumbag is not off the hook, but pinning the state of the team on him and the league is officially over. Suffice it to say, this franchise is now the last to deserve lottery luck.

- I don't share the temptation of many to attempt to fast track this by shopping Johnson for another lottery pick to select a PG or splurge on a free agent PG or C.

- I'm still skeptical of Johnson's long term fit, especially now that there's a conceivable, if hazy path to championship contention, but they're not exactly teeming with wings right now.

- I would, however consider making a lesser trade to get a secondary 1st round pick.

- Wembanyama isn't Robinson or Duncan in many ways and probably the biggest mistake they can make is treating him as such. He's not ready to helm a championship contender or probably even good team and they can't get the ideal second star they need right now anyway, so there's no need to make a kneejerk decision.

- Speaking of which, if he wants or is cool with the relative circus sure to follow, have at it. If not, I'd grant ESPN and whatever correspondent assigned as little access as possible for payback of how they've treated this franchise, particularly the past half decade.

- The current front court is ideal. Collins' malleability should play well off of Wembanyama, Sochan can be the 6th man (shoehorning him into SF or PG is a good way to have an offense that can't function) in the interim but maintain "starter minutes", while Bassey and Mamukelashvili compete for spot minutes. Lots of combinations that make sense.

- I'd extend Collins, with the idea to eventually shift into a third big role once Wembanyama is ready to be more of a full time C.

- Murray's immaturity probably burned this bridge and I wouldn't cross it even if not for that, but if he makes it to free agency in '24 and PG is still a gaping hole post that draft, would they?

[timvp]

- Wembanyama isn't Robinson or Duncan in many ways and probably the biggest mistake they can make is treating him as such. He's not ready to helm a championship contender or probably even good team and they can't get the ideal second star they need right now anyway, so there's no need to make a kneejerk decision.

Yeah, this is key. Robinson was 24 as a rookie. Duncan was a very mature 21.

Wembanyama will be 19 at the start of the season and he's still growing into his body. It's tempting to go out and get the vets you need to make the playoffs in year one but I'd prefer a slower approach. Hell, I don't even know what the preferred sidekick for Wembanyama looks like yet. We'll probably know that answer after his rookie season but right now it could be anything from a playmaking point guard to a bruising big.

The allure of getting someone like CP3 will be there to help usher Wembanyama into the league but my vote would be to hold up and let things play out for a bit.

[slick'81]

No problem letting him bulk up. In 2/3 years lebron,curry,kawhi,pg durant etc will be gonzo

[Chinook]

I'm happy you'll be able to move past the Leonard shit at last.

I don't think trading Johnson would be "fast-tracking" as much as optimizing. I certainly think the Spurs need to move some of the projected six firsts they'll have in 2024 and 2025. They won't be able to use them to move back very easily, but they should be able to use them to move forward. If they really attack the draft by taking another high pick, Johnson makes the most sense to move out of the players who could realistically garner that value. The Spurs will basically be forced to spend tens of millions to reach the floor, so playable wings are not going to be hard to find. If there's no body worth making that kind of move, do something like the GS trade I pointed out. I wouldn't want them to do the Miami trade, though.

I agree Wemby's nowhere near ready to win a title and folks trying to pencil him in like that are out of their minds. I expect the Spurs to have a chance to tank again, though they might be content to play to win games again and fight for the 10th seed.

Not everyone at ESPN crapped on the Spurs. With how lackadaisical the local media is, the only true defense of the Spurs during the Leonard saga came from Michael C Wright. There are reporters who I would discourage from showing up, but the Spurs are going to just have to get used to being in the national spotlight again. Hopefully their performance will keep them there after the new car smell fades away.

I'm not a huge fan of Collins as a starter. I think that wear and tear will weaken him. Even if he starts, the team needs to invest in a backup. Collins' legs can't be the only things keeping Wemby from being forced to play center. I agree about Collins potentially getting an extension. I think he'd be eligible for something like $35M/3. That's a pretty cheap deal, even for a backup.

I don't think Murray could return to the Spurs without being the star, and he just won't be that now. There'd be some real benefit to signing him in that it would improve the ATL picks, but he'd have to change so much over the course of this upcoming year for me to not assume it'd be a disaster.

[Mugen]

I hope they learned some lessons from the Nephew ordeal that they can apply to Wemby in terms of managing ego/personality/etc.

There will never be another Timmy (Jokic is probably the closest thing) and coming into this with the expectation that Victor will be low-maintenance would be dumb tbh.

Can't hide the kid from media in this day and age and with this type of hype around him. PATFO & det "culture" are going to have to adjust without selling their souls. We all thought Kawhi was that guy because he was a mute but it turns out he's one of the biggest divas of his generation :lol

[Mugen]

Also absolutely zero chance they bring back Dejounte after his PR tour this past year :lol

[TD 21]

The allure of getting someone like CP3 will be there to help usher Wembanyama into the league but my vote would be to hold up and let things play out for a bit.

Haynes reported today that the Suns are likely to retain Paul, but either way I'm not sure they (even with Ishbia running them) would send him to a re-building team after what he's done for their franchise and even if they did, he'd likely seek a buyout.



I certainly think the Spurs need to move some of the projected six firsts they'll have in 2024 and 2025.

The Spurs will basically be forced to spend tens of millions to reach the floor, so playable wings are not going to be hard to find.

Not everyone at ESPN crapped on the Spurs. With how lackadaisical the local media is, the only true defense of the Spurs during the Leonard saga came from Michael C Wright. There are reporters who I would discourage from showing up, but the Spurs are going to just have to get used to being in the national spotlight again. Hopefully their performance will keep them there after the new car smell fades away.

Even if he starts, the team needs to invest in a backup. Collins' legs can't be the only things keeping Wemby from being forced to play center.

Right, but not necessarily immediately.

Playable wings are almost always hard to find, especially young, high end backup/low end starter caliber ones.

Guilt by association. Anyway, this is probably moot since at the very least, I get the sense Wembanyama won't mind it and as I alluded to, it's about what he wants.

Bassey and Mamukelashvili (can guard C's while Wembanyama looms as a weakside shot blocker) are fine as depth options.

[scott]

Your Murray update.

This is not a DJM thread, but the "If I decided to stay" comment is interesting.

1658658060800278528

[Uriel]

- Murray's immaturity probably burned this bridge and I wouldn't cross it even if not for that, but if he makes it to free agency in '24 and PG is still a gaping hole post that draft, would they?
I'm actually open to this idea.

[barakz21]

Yeah, this is key. Robinson was 24 as a rookie. Duncan was a very mature 21.

Wembanyama will be 19 at the start of the season and he's still growing into his body. It's tempting to go out and get the vets you need to make the playoffs in year one but I'd prefer a slower approach. Hell, I don't even know what the preferred sidekick for Wembanyama looks like yet. We'll probably know that answer after his rookie season but right now it could be anything from a playmaking point guard to a bruising big.

The allure of getting someone like CP3 will be there to help usher Wembanyama into the league but my vote would be to hold up and let things play out for a bit.

Just to piggyback off of TD 21 (damn, I finally got to say it), Big fun was also joining a team that had established vets, and a still in-his-prime DRob (albeit was going to decline in a few years). Wemby otoh is joining a young team that doesn’t have any established vets and have yet to collectively establish an identity.

But that’s also what makes it exciting, for us fans and for the team. They get to grow together, establish their own identities and try to step out from the shadows of the Big 3 and their legacies.

[spurraider21]

2nd what chinook said, that trading keldon isnt really an acceleration move. if anything, trading an established nba player for a rookie pg is resetting further. now if we packaged keldon + serveral picks for an even better vet, THAT would be the type of move i dont think i'd be for right now

[Darkwaters]

Yeah, this is key. Robinson was 24 as a rookie. Duncan was a very mature 21.



Duncan was also joining a team full of veterans that won 59 games the season before the Robinson injury. They essentially had a one-year blip and then returned to being a very accomplished team.

Wemby is joining a group that has no tradition of winning. They're going to have to become winners together.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Sochan + Wemby is going to be fun man.

[Russ]

The allure of getting someone like CP3 will be there to help usher Wembanyama into the league but my vote would be to hold up and let things play out for a bit.

Let's see what we got on some foundational level before we start trying to add the final piece.

[RC_Drunkford]

there's no reason to make win now moves. Keep all the young guys, they are on similar timelines. See what you have then try to add a 2nd star under 30 during 2024 free agency. Maybe move up in this draft to snag another talent. By year 3 you bring in the other pieces and with the ATL picks and the Boston swap looming you infuse more young talent. The Spurs need to build this roster long term to dominate like MJ did with the Bulls. I'm talking 3-peats.

[Chinook]

Right, but not necessarily immediately.

If you mean immediately to be right this second, then I agree. If you mean it to be not this summer, then I disagree about the 2024 picks. I don't think they should go into the 2024 draft with three firsts and especially not all of those seconds. They could use some in a random win-now deal at the deadline if their play warrants it. But this draft is the perfect opportunity to get a good value exchange on them, since they can either break them up into pieces to sweeten the pot or package them for a pick to a team in the middle of the draft ala OKC last year. I don't think the Spurs should pull a Charlotte or Detroit and lock themselves out of trades by moving their pick. However, if they want to make sure they can't dump those picks in the near future, trading a long-term heavily protected first in addition to one or more of their meh firsts from other teams could net them a pick in the teens. I don't advise that, but I also don't think the Spurs should play this as if they'll have years of Presti'ing in their future. While their potential foundation piece just got here, the pieces they have to put around him need new deals, and they have to make the choice about giving those out or finding replacements. They simply aren't going to be able to churn through roster spots with so many rotation slots taken up on guys they've invested in.


Playable wings are almost always hard to find, especially young, high end backup/low end starter caliber ones.

Sure, but also not sure? Yes, Johnson is better than replacement level at a lot of things, but the Spurs would be drafting a player at a similar range as last year after making this trade. They may well see a guy who can replace what Keldon does or have the same general impact but spread into attributes that make more sense on the team. They might not, of course, but between another top-10 pick, cap space and fliers on other guys, they'll have chances. It does depend on how the Spurs see Branham, Wesley and the other rookies from last year progressing. If they think those guys are going to play solid minutes, the 2023 Spurs may not need to overreact to losing an undersized forward like Keldon.


Guilt by association. Anyway, this is probably moot since at the very least, I get the sense Wembanyama won't mind it and as I alluded to, it's about what he wants.

Fair enough on it being a moot point. Though I think with all we're hearing about the Spurs' PR outreach that they want to court the national media more than they needed to when they were a dynasty. They seem to need the money.


Bassey and Mamukelashvili (can guard C's while Wembanyama looms as a weakside shot blocker) are fine as depth options.

I disagree, especially on Bassey. They should make it their mission to never force Wemby to play the five this year, and those guys aren't going to keep him from doing that. They'll get beat out by perimeter players for minutes. They need to bump up the quality there to make it a position that deserves minutes, not one that has to be force fed minutes.

[LeBowen]

there's no reason to make win now moves. Keep all the young guys, they are on similar timelines. See what you have then try to add a 2nd star under 30 during 2024 free agency. Maybe move up in this draft to snag another talent. By year 3 you bring in the other pieces and with the ATL picks and the Boston swap looming you infuse more young talent. The Spurs need to build this roster long term to dominate like MJ did with the Bulls. I'm talking 3-peats.

Yeah, idk why a lot of people expect Spurs to get a second star right away. Unless an opportunity to get a legit superstar presents itself, just play the season out. 35-45 wins depending on how much everyone improves and go from there.

Other than the Nuggets, if we talk current contenders, the entire West is close to it's expiry date. Spurs, Jazz and OKC look like the next three powerhouses in the making. Maybe the Rockets, but they're too incompetent not to fuck it up.

Spurs are in the best situation in the league, it just requires a season or two of patience.

[drpill]

Sochan + Wemby is going to be fun man.

Yeah, I'm very excited to see Sochan and Wemby together. The defense could be something special and I think offensively they will gel nicely and kill on the boards. So much potential if they both get anywhere near their ceilings.

Other guys I am randomly looking forward to seeing play with Victor:

Mamu -- come on, there are going to be some amazing passes here from Mamu to Wembanyama. I think everybody will have fun lobbing it to the new guy but Mamu to Wemby will be a special treat.

Tre Jones -- I really think he will do fine as a starting PG. I wouldn't be opposed to an upgrade, because the right point guard could really elevate this team a lot, but Tre is a gamer and I appreciate what he brings. With Wembanyama as a running mate the team will be getting down the floor in transition faster than ever, it will be a lot of fun.

[mudyez]

there's no reason to make win now moves. Keep all the young guys, they are on similar timelines. See what you have then try to add a 2nd star under 30 during 2024 free agency. Maybe move up in this draft to snag another talent. By year 3 you bring in the other pieces and with the ATL picks and the Boston swap looming you infuse more young talent. The Spurs need to build this roster long term to dominate like MJ did with the Bulls. I'm talking 3-peats.

This! And only this!

[The Truth #6]

Keldon might thrive next to Wemby. I agree he could be the odd man out but amid the fog of tanking, I think it’s possible Vassel actually has a chronic knee issue that may require him to rest now and then. He has improved with skills for sure, but it feels like he has less burst. And so, trading Vassel seems almost as reasonable as Keldon imho.

[tonight...you]

Your Murray update.

This is not a DJM thread, but the "If I decided to stay" comment is interesting.

1658658060800278528

Lol, if he decided...
Even if he wanted to sacrifice money on a lower extension, they were going to shut him down for long stretches this last year as they committed to the Tank.
It's not like he's proven to be a difference maker on the Hawks record either.
I'll refrain on thanking him, but I will thank the Hawks.

[RC_Drunkford]

If the Spurs think there is a guy they can get in this draft who could be a legit 2nd option to Wembanyama I'm all for trading Keldon plus 1 or 2 of the Hornets, Raptors, Bulls picks. You can replace Keldon by signing Cam Johnson or Grant Williams who are also still fairly young. And while Brook Lopez would be a good fit he's also 35. Makes no sense to me to give playing time to an old guy when your own Center just averaged 16.5/8/3.8/1/1 on 49.4 FG% 39.2 3P% while only being 25 years old. If you want to sign vets draft Bronny and sign LeBron on his last legs when you're making a real run. This is not the time to give rotation minutes to old guys, we can do that later down the line when the old stars of the league start to ring chase.

I'm more intrigued by having somebody like Coulibaly in the stash who could become an All-Star later down the line.

[BackHome]

Yeah I want to go slow the first year I want to see how it plays out who looks good and what groups work well and what groups don't work. As far as trading I am cool with trading but I am not trading any of our future picks that are looking like they might get us back in the lottery. It would be freaking sweet if Chicago and Atlanta implode and we get two lottery picks out of the trades...:hungry:

[BackHome]

Keldon might thrive next to Wemby. I agree he could be the odd man out but amid the fog of tanking, I think it’s possible Vassel actually has a chronic knee issue that may require him to rest now and then. He has improved with skills for sure, but it feels like he has less burst. And so, trading Vassel seems almost as reasonable as Keldon imho.

That would suck if Vassel did have knee issues as I think he is a legit piece to building out this team....:(

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nephew came in with much less skill and developed just fine. Player fan likes to bitch about Pop's rotations but its hard to impeach his ability to develop players.

I see no reason why he cannot become the defensive focal point. It makes sense to funnel shots his way given his shot blocking skills.

As for the offense, the entire team is young. He can grow with the rest of them. It's not like they are asking him to come and take over a veteran group.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Spurs will have to walk a very fine line between being conservative (signing Plumlee-like FAs or trading for Paul/Lowry type vet) and reckless (like Mavs trading for Porzingis) and this is more difficult than it appears to be but ultimately it is where you want to be. We know that they have a ready made plan for it all.

Also, we shouldn't disregard the notion that some teams will be very reluctant to deal with the Spurs unless it's an obvious overpay, which is something they may need to do in order to get some of their targets.

Personally, I'd hold onto the Atlanta picks for now, as their value could dramatically increase if they implode and trade Trae, which is a real possibility. But all of Toronto's, Charlotte's, Chicago's, any seconds are up for sale immediately if they could bring someone they really like. They'd also have a window to try keeping all of their picks with the idea to use them in the next major star trade, as they could offer something that usually teams don't have - picks that aren't their own's. Normally in superstar trades the team giving up the picks expect them to be in the 20s, so their perceived value isn't great, however, all of Toronto's, Chicago's and Atlanta's picks, ( even possibly Charlotte's if it conveys ) would likely be better.

Basically, we're in a really good and exciting place fellas. So lucky!

[kht]

Johnson is on a decent contract... can be moved to the bench... and gets along with the other young guys. Can't get into the habit of just shipping off guys.

[TD 21]

If you mean immediately to be right this second, then I agree.

While their potential foundation piece just got here, the pieces they have to put around him need new deals, and they have to make the choice about giving those out or finding replacements. They simply aren't going to be able to churn through roster spots with so many rotation slots taken up on guys they've invested in.

I meant more so in regards to Johnson. As I said, I'd be more open to a lesser trade that gets them a late 1st in this draft as opposed to trying to force a decision on the former now.

Agreed.


Sure, but also not sure? but between another top-10 pick, cap space and fliers on other guys, they'll have chances.

It does depend on how the Spurs see Branham, Wesley and the other rookies from last year progressing. If they think those guys are going to play solid minutes, the 2023 Spurs may not need to overreact to losing an undersized forward like Keldon.

Top 10 pick? I didn't see whatever proposal(s) you seem to be referencing.

Branham and Wesley aren't wings though. The only other young, notable wing they have besides Johnson is Vassell.

Again, I'm not saying Johnson is necessarily the long term answer at SF, but knee jerk trade him for some combo guard (Black, Wallace, Smith Jr., Bufkin, etc.) who's probably not the answer at PG and they're right back to having a gaping hole on the wing.


I disagree, especially on Bassey. They should make it their mission to never force Wemby to play the five this year, and those guys aren't going to keep him from doing that. They'll get beat out by perimeter players for minutes. They need to bump up the quality there to make it a position that deserves minutes, not one that has to be force fed minutes.

That's crazy. Wembanyama should absolutely play some C immediately, it should just be matchup dependent. If he didn't, there'd be no way to play Sochan the minutes he needs without having some awkward lineup that wouldn't have a chance to function offensively.

There's no reason Collins and Bassey can't be perfectly fine 2.5 and 4.5 on the big depth chart, especially for a re-building team.

[DAF86]

There's no reason Collins and Bassey can't be perfectly fine 2.5 and 4.5 on the big depth chart, especially for a re-building team.

Yeah, I don't get this fear of playing Wemby at his position. :lol

Be real now, how many centers do we have in the league that play like actual centers? Jokic, Embiid, who else? In 90% of the games you can pair Wemby vs the other's team center just fine. Also, you don't want to take him too much out of the paint. The kid is probably the biggest shot altering force in the World and guys here want to have him standing around on the perimeter doing nothing? It makes no sense.

[Mr. Body]

There are definitely sets where the Spurs will play Wembanyama as the 5. That's essentially your perfect small ball lineup in the modern NBA. I mean, your center is freakin' 7'5", is incredibly rangy as a shotblocker, and can shoot threes. That's nuts.

He still needs someone to take the physical load in other matchups. You don't want Draymond Green trying to hurt him. You don't want him banging with Embiid or Zion too much, if Zion ever puts down the sticks of butter.

I do think it'll be Collins-Wemby as starters. You have a good, young center and then a near freebie at the PF slot. Building the lineup from there is the question, whether the SF is KJ or Sochan.

Btw, Tim Duncan supposedly won a large number of opening tips. Can you imagine how many opening tips Wembanyama is going to get?

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah, I don't get this fear of playing Wemby at his position. :lol

Be real now, how many centers do we have in the league that play like actual centers? Jokic, Embiid, who else? In 90% of the games you can pair Wemby vs the other's team center just fine. Also, you don't want to take him too much out of the paint. The kid is probably the biggest shot altering force in the World and guys here want to have him standing around on the perimeter doing nothing? It makes no sense.

Wembanyama can actually guard the perimeter and the rim at the same time. He can easily just take two steps from the 3-point line and block a shot at the rim

[DAF86]

Wembanyama can actually guard the perimeter and the rim at the same time. He can easily just take two steps from the 3-point line and block a shot at the rim

Yeah, but starting from inside out, not the other way around. The more time close to the basket Wemby spends, the better. On both sides.