Stockpile picks

[Marcus Bryant]

Understand the desire to get back yesterday to the playoffs and contending but Wembanyama will need a couple years to ramp up to the NBA and unless the Spurs screw up personally with him or some shyster uncle appears, you have time to spend on building a team and program around him.

Given the cap flexibility the Spurs have, the next couple years are prime time to buy additional 1st round picks by taking on some undesirable contracts with 2 to 3 years left.

There’s also the benefit as you buildout a rotation full of players on rookie contracts that the first set of bad contracts expire and you can buy more future first rounders with cap space.

The best use of cap space for a team in a market like SA is to buy picks. When you have a franchise player on a rookie deal this is all the better. Sure, there’s always finding the right role player free agent for a spot, but landing star talent in free agency is not the best course.

[Marcus Bryant]

Given the Hawks, Bulls, Raptors, and Hornets picks over the next 4 drafts in addition to their own the Spurs already are set to build a supporting cast through the draft, in addition to current players on rookie deals.

Business might get in the way of this plan, patience doesn’t sell season tix and viewers, especially with a hyped talent like Wembanyama, but a slowish approach to the next 3 seasons could yield a juggernaut for the next 10.

[Proxy]

Excited to see OG posters return to ST

[Marcus Bryant]

Spurs also have a fair number of 2nd rounders over the next 4 drafts or so for some draft and stash speculation.

There’s sure to be the temptation to use draft picks to trade for proven players to win now. With Pop beyond retirement age there will likely be pressure to do that.

[timvp]

Yeah, and the nice thing about stockpiling firsts is you can eventually trade in those assets for a star. Signing a star outright seems to not happen much anymore ... but when a star is disgruntled, the going rate is a handful of unprotected firsts, which the Spurs already have a rather nice collection of to this point.

[TrueSpursFan]

Wemby did say he wants to win a ring ASAP so be ready. I think the spurs are gonna take that seriously and try something this off season. Hopefully it’s nothing too crazy

[Mr. Body]

Wemby did say he wants to win a ring ASAP so be ready. I think the spurs are gonna take that seriously and try something this off season. Hopefully it’s nothing too crazy

Every well-rehearsed draft pick says that. Except Deandre Ayton, who says he's looking forward to his second contract.

[Mr. Body]

The cap space is really valuable - I was happy they didn't burn it at the trade deadline. There's some use here. Problem may be managing the roster spots.

An additional possibility with the draft stockpile is flipping them forward. It's going to be impossible to use all of the extra ones coming up; they can trade them into the future and spill later in the decade and further.

[BillMc]

Yeah, and the nice thing about stockpiling firsts is you can eventually trade in those assets for a star. Signing a star outright seems to not happen much anymore ... but when a star is disgruntled, the going rate is a handful of unprotected firsts, which the Spurs already have a rather nice collection of to this point.

Wemby could be joined by Luka or Giannis in about 2 years....kidding...sort of....

[JuneJive]

His acclimation process might not be longer than a season.

And from a cap perspective it would be good to build a contender during Wembys rookie contract.

I'm sure Pop would like to take it slow, but his hand could be forced by Wembys ability to contribute in a very meaningful way in his 2nd season.

[CGD]

The cap space is really valuable - I was happy they didn't burn it at the trade deadline. There's some use here. Problem may be managing the roster spots.

An additional possibility with the draft stockpile is flipping them forward. It's going to be impossible to use all of the extra ones coming up; they can trade them into the future and spill later in the decade and further.

IDK man, I feel capspace has become overrated in recently years with fewer outright terrible deals in need of dumping. Many GMs seem to have gotten the memo after 2016. Last year was a case in point.

I also read that the new CBA could allow teams that don’t use their cap space in one year to roll it over into another year. Not sure how all that works, but THAT seems like a valuable reason to keep capspace, i.e., so the team can use it when they’re ready to be good.

[exstatic]

The problem is that there are already a shit ton of FRPs that have been traded, and others are locked up by being consecutive years,or multiple year options to convey. Chicago cannot trade their 24,25-27,or 28 picks, because our pick window with them is 25-27, and 24 and 28 are contiguous years, for example.

[Brazil]

Given the Hawks, Bulls, Raptors, and Hornets picks over the next 4 drafts in addition to their own the Spurs already are set to build a supporting cast through the draft, in addition to current players on rookie deals.

Business might get in the way of this plan, patience doesn’t sell season tix and viewers, especially with a hyped talent like Wembanyama, but a slowish approach to the next 3 seasons could yield a juggernaut for the next 10.

I'm with you on dat one, it's gonna be a 3 years process. Hopefully it won't create tensions with Victor, kid is very ambitious and hungry but this is the best for him. One important factor here that can ease the process is the Olympics in Paris, this event will give Victor something to look for during his growing process with the Spurs.

Believe.

[vander]

so what are some contracts bad enough for a 1st round pick? I can only think of Duncan Robinson

[mo7888]

so what are some contracts bad enough for a 1st round pick? I can only think of Duncan Robinson

Ben Simmons
Davis Bertans

Then there are several bad 1 year contracts that may not be worth a 1st, but could garner a 1st if you're sending a player back in the deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, and the nice thing about stockpiling firsts is you can eventually trade in those assets for a star. Signing a star outright seems to not happen much anymore ... but when a star is disgruntled, the going rate is a handful of unprotected firsts, which the Spurs already have a rather nice collection of to this point.

Absolutely. Cap space and picks can make a lot happen. Not to downplay free agency, but the Spurs’ use of it has historically been to land key rotational players not stars.

The trade route is always a possibility, picks and cap space are the real assets that can yield improvement. Selling off stars not so much though of course the Dejounte trade now with Wembamyana was huge.

Will be interesting to see what direction the Spurs take.

If they are high on another prospect in this draft, they have the assets to get it done and hey, that’s why you invest in front office personnel, processes, and systems.

[ambchang]

Trading all the picks for Doncic when he forces a trade .... one can only dream.

[DAF86]

And at which point do you stop stocking assets and start building for improvement? The Spurs already got their guy, I think it's time to start planning on erasing all the bad habits caused by the losing of the past few seasons.

I'm afraid the Spurs outspurs themselves with all this crazy talk I'm already seeing about "saving" Victor by playing him benchwarmer minutes and not trying to improve the team around him. You are mistaken if you think the kid will be cool with losing 60 games and not even winning RoY because you didn't play him enough minutes.

Don't believe your own shit, do sensible stuff to keep the kid happy.

[Mr. Body]

And at which point do you stop stocking assets and start building for improvement? The Spurs already got their guy, I think it's time to start planning on erasing all the bad habits caused by the losing of the past few seasons.

I'm afraid the Spurs outspurs themselves with all this crazy talk I'm already seeing about "saving" Victor by playing him benchwarmer minutes and not trying to improve the team around him. You are mistaken if you think the kid will be cool with losing 60 games and not even winning RoY because you didn't play him enough minutes.

Don't believe your own shit, do sensible stuff to keep the kid happy.

I don't think the team will seriously hold back his games or playing time. They'll monitor things, but he's going to be out there a very good amount.

[cjw]

With the new CBA, teams that exceed the tax by too much become limited in their ability to use the MLE to fill out roster. I think the cap space can be utilized in the short term to allow those teams some flexibility. But as some have mentioned, there are limited FRPs that can be dealt. I’m okay getting more creative and targeting getting a SRP and pick swaps on future firsts. That Boston swap is something Boston never thought would materialize, but could be a possibility if Spurs move towards contender status in five years. Tatum-Brown is a good core but personalities force player movement in no time.

The fact that so many FRPs are locked up also limits the universe of teams that can trade for that next disgruntled star. The Spurs benefit from this - either by trading for said star, or by facilitating a trade for a star and possibly dealing out a FRP for a very good guy (albeit not star).

I would not take on salary beyond 2024-25 as they need to keep the window to max space open in Wemby’s years three and four. By then, Sochan will be extendable but will still have his lower cap number. Vassell will be on higher number.

It’s a good problem to have, but also don’t forget #1 picks also carry a higher cap figure than we’re used to drafting in late lottery or outside of lottery.

[Mr. Body]

Good stuff. I like your brining up future cap issues. The Spurs will need to pay for current players as they get older. But what's wild is that we got Sochan, Vassell, Branham, etc., at later draft picks. We're not staring at the hell of dealing with a Jalen Green and Jabari Smith with the #2 and #3 rookie salary scale.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Love this! I think the spurs should continue with this strategy throughout the entire Wemby career. Wemby gets paid.

Cycle through Johnsons, Sochans, Vassells, Young, Jones. They don't need load management, they have rookie contracts. you find a Pippen/Rodman, Klay/Draymond, Tony/Manu, Wade/Bosh and max them out too. If they arent contributing to playoff wins, you trade them. Avoid negotiation and deadline dealing, get value and move on.

Cycle through undrafted, 2nd round, and overpaid old dumpster finds. No negotiation necessary. Don't hang on to Bonner and RJ forever, don't pay Malik rose and rasho too much and end up needing to dump them. They sign minimum, or you get paid picks to wait out their overpriced deal. And they're gone.

Loyalty is for the big 3. The role players take the minimum, or the rotating door rotates. You win a championship, you can get a little cute for the repeat. Otherwise, stick to the program.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

And don't go sign another damn Lame Aldridge either. Let the suns or blazers sign Lames to ridiculous contracts, and make them pay you picks to eat lames salary.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Don't sign Same Lillard or Blames Harden. Simmons and Cp3 with some 2nd round picks works just fine

[Phenomanul]

Yeah, and the nice thing about stockpiling firsts is you can eventually trade in those assets for a star. Signing a star outright seems to not happen much anymore ... but when a star is disgruntled, the going rate is a handful of unprotected firsts, which the Spurs already have a rather nice collection of to this point.

A guy at work was floating the idea around that the Spurs should trade as much of those assets to the Hornets for the rights to the Number 2 pick so that they can pick up BOTH Wemby and Scoot Henderson. The Hornets already have LaMelo and the two would not necessarily be the best fit on the same squad. You might also have to give up Keldon for the Hornets to even entertain it.

[DAF86]

A guy at work was floating the idea around that the Spurs should trade as much of those assets to the Hornets for the rights to the Number 2 pick so that they can pick up BOTH Wemby and Scoot Henderson. The Hornets already have LaMelo and the two would not necessarily be the best fit on the same squad. You might also have to give up Keldon for the Hornets to even entertain it.

I'm so tempted on trying this. Keldon and a future 1st round pick. Would be Hornets go for this? They would technically be getting 2 first rounds for the price of one.

[Mr. Body]

I'm so tempted on trying this. Keldon and a future 1st round pick. Would be Hornets go for this? They would technically be getting 2 first rounds for the price of one.

I don't think there's any chance of it whatsoever.

Scoot has a chance to be a star and franchise player. Keldon, although he's a very solid player, doesn't.

[spurraider21]

The problem is that there are already a shit ton of FRPs that have been traded, and others are locked up by being consecutive years,or multiple year options to convey. Chicago cannot trade their 24,25-27,or 28 picks, because our pick window with them is 25-27, and 24 and 28 are contiguous years, for example.
send them a few 2's and have them lift protections on 2025

[DAF86]

I don't think there's any chance of it whatsoever.

Scoot has a chance to be a star and franchise player. Keldon, although he's a very solid player, doesn't.

Yeah, it probably wouldn't be enough. What about Keldon, a first round pick and giving them bsck their top 14 protected one? I know Scoot has potential but he's far from a sure thing. He also doesn't fit with Lamelo. Getting a 20 ppg wingmen on a great deal and 2 future 1st might be enough. In any case, there's a trade to be made there. It just depends on how many picks the Hornets would want and how many the Spurs are willing to give up.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, it probably wouldn't be enough. What about Keldon, a first round pick and giving them bsck their top 14 protected one? I know Scoot has potential but he's far from a sure thing. He also doesn't fit with Lamelo. Getting a 20 ppg wingmen on a great deal and 2 future 1st might be enough. In any case, there's a trade to be made there. It just depends on how many picks the Hornets would want and how many the Spurs are willing to give up.

The Spurs definitely can be in the mix if they want. I just think other teams are going to come for the pick, too, and it's going to get costly. The thing I keep pressing is that teams/GMs/owners have to come away from drafts with something flashy. I remember NYK fans going bonkers when they drafted Porzingis. I don't think Charlotte can come away with just Keldon Johnson and future draft picks. Not for a guy people have been claiming is a possible superstar.

[JPB]

Wemby could be joined by Luka or Giannis in about 2 years....kidding...sort of....


Trading all the picks for Doncic when he forces a trade .... one can only dream.

That's really not that far-fetched and something spurs certainly have in the back of therr minds. If, and he def will, Wemby is the real thing, some superstars will understand you can build a dynasty there. 7 years in, Luka is still ringless, if Vic becomes the face of the NBA, luka (as well as some other superstar) might want to make the best of his last prime years.

[BacktoBasics]

Im all for moving a player if it brings back an extremely high value prospect like Scoot. Otherwise I’d rather run with productive players like Vassell and Keldon while building more organically.

One common theme with all these trades that leverage the house for disgruntled star players is that most end up just being disgruntled people and a change of scenery doesn’t fix anything. This era of superstars is the most entitled group ever. You gotta pamper these guys.

I’d rather have a bunch of good guys like Keldon than a Kyrie or Ja. Obviously there are good guys like Embiid, Jokic, Giannis etc but we’re not landing that stuff and almost all of these potential stars aren’t concerned with winning rings. They’re concerned with building their brand and legacy money.

Wemby will be a celebrity but he comes off as way less of a princess despite the entourage.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just make sure we got enough picks for 2024 to draft Bronny James so we can sign LeBron and pair him with Wemby in 2025. Bron would even welcome that given that he needs another 2 rings for his legacy so people can’t say Jordan has more. Not that I like him, but it’s for the greater good of the franchise and Wemby would get his ring ASAP like he wants to

[Phenomanul]

Getting both Wemby and Scoot would be reminiscent of when both Robinson and Elliott shared their rookie season due to David's Navy commitment.

[BackHome]

We might have 3 first round draft licks next year so I hate to say it but it’s actually a possibility that just might happen

[CGD]

Ben Simmons
Davis Bertans

Then there are several bad 1 year contracts that may not be worth a 1st, but could garner a 1st if you're sending a player back in the deal.

Joe Harris is another. He’s expiring but Nets may be paying tax again this year for a meh team assuming they keep Johnson, don’t waive Dinwiddle, and retain Seth Curry. May want to dump his 19M. They also have Suns FRPs.

Something like Harris + Patty + FRP for Birch and a few seconds.

[offset formation]

Joe Harris is another. He’s expiring but Nets may be paying tax again this year for a meh team assuming they keep Johnson, don’t waive Dinwiddle, and retain Seth Curry. May want to dump his 19M. They also have Suns FRPs.

Something like Harris + Patty + FRP for Birch and a few seconds.

Being lazy to look it up...is Seth Curry available? Would love to see him in silver and black.

[spurraider21]

I'm so tempted on trying this. Keldon and a future 1st round pick. Would be Hornets go for this? They would technically be getting 2 first rounds for the price of one.
at this point, the most valuable draft assets the spurs have are probably the hawks picsk. the spurs trajectory with wemby is pointing up. meanwhile, nobody knows what the hawks will look like in 25 let alone 27

think to move up to 2, you have to give up keldon, 1 hawks pick, and probably give the hornets their protected pick back. they would also love that pick back because the running protections limits their ability to move other picks if they want to make moves

remember, you are getting them to bypass a potential star. its going to take more than keldon and 1 pick that may or may not be top 5

[Guru of Nothing]

I'm with you fellas.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Given the Hawks, Bulls, Raptors, and Hornets picks over the next 4 drafts in addition to their own the Spurs already are set to build a supporting cast through the draft, in addition to current players on rookie deals.

Business might get in the way of this plan, patience doesn’t sell season tix and viewers, especially with a hyped talent like Wembanyama, but a slowish approach to the next 3 seasons could yield a juggernaut for the next 10.

It makes more sense to package picks in future drafts to move up as opposed to trading three picks just to get back in. We have 33 and 50 to move up from this year.

[baseline bum]

I'm so tempted on trying this. Keldon and a future 1st round pick. Would be Hornets go for this? They would technically be getting 2 first rounds for the price of one.

Keldon and an unprotected first isn't getting you #2 in a strong draft, no way in hell.

[BackHome]

I would rather get a highly rated SF/SG then a PG...

[baseline bum]

think to move up to 2, you have to give up keldon, 1 hawks pick, and probably give the hornets their protected pick back.


That's way too cheap. Probably have to throw Sochan into that deal too.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think people are underselling what it will take to get the 2.

[MI21]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.
Do you think a second pick is worth more than an actual all star (DJM)?

[MI21]

Do you think a second pick is worth more than an actual all star (DJM)?

Definitely. DJM was a replacement player in the All Star game from memory and Scoot is one of the more hyped guard prospects I can recall. I would be absolutely shocked if the pick was traded for less than the DJM haul.

[exstatic]

One thing that no one has said yet:

Everyone in the league fucking hates us right now, and will do nothing to help us.

Expect to be asked $2 on the dollar for anything. Then, be smart and don’t pay it.

When we spend those picks a year or two down the road, I hope it’s on an All Star, not a prospect.

[exstatic]

Definitely. DJM was a replacement player in the All Star game from memory and Scoot is one of the more hyped guard prospects I can recall. I would be absolutely shocked if the pick was traded for less than the DJM haul.

He’s a proven commodity. Scoot isn’t, and his path to stardom, as a small guard, is rocky.

[mo7888]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.

I love Scoot.... I wouldn’t pay that for him though.... that's to much..

[exstatic]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.

We can’t actually do that. Only Charlotte can, and they’ll require an incentive.

[JPB]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.

That's totally insane. Spurs would never do that for a player with 0 NBA games who could be a bust and didn't show anything suggesting he's worth that.

[MI21]

We can’t actually do that. Only Charlotte can, and they’ll require an incentive.

Yeah, what a dumb comment by me. What I meant to say is we trade the pick back to them!

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And at which point do you stop stocking assets and start building for improvement? The Spurs already got their guy, I think it's time to start planning on erasing all the bad habits caused by the losing of the past few seasons.

I'm afraid the Spurs outspurs themselves with all this crazy talk I'm already seeing about "saving" Victor by playing him benchwarmer minutes and not trying to improve the team around him. You are mistaken if you think the kid will be cool with losing 60 games and not even winning RoY because you didn't play him enough minutes.

Don't believe your own shit, do sensible stuff to keep the kid happy.

Agreed 1000%

I understand not wanting to overwork him but if they keep him to 25 minutes a night that is BS

[MannyIsGod]

And at which point do you stop stocking assets and start building for improvement? The Spurs already got their guy, I think it's time to start planning on erasing all the bad habits caused by the losing of the past few seasons.

I'm afraid the Spurs outspurs themselves with all this crazy talk I'm already seeing about "saving" Victor by playing him benchwarmer minutes and not trying to improve the team around him. You are mistaken if you think the kid will be cool with losing 60 games and not even winning RoY because you didn't play him enough minutes.

Don't believe your own shit, do sensible stuff to keep the kid happy.

They've never held back a rookie that was good. Never. I mean look at how much run Sochan got.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you think a second pick is worth more than an actual all star (DJM)?

I do not, but its also important to note that those picks are now more valuable than they were when we got them. The chances of ATL being bad are higher now. The draft picks are one year closer to conveying.

Spurs should hold onto those picks barring a must take trade, but lets not act like those assets haven't' appreciated in the last year.

[Ariel]

100%.

Keldon, another young player (Branham?) 2 x ATL picks, the Toronto pick and lifting the protections on the Charlotte pick would be the starting point.
That's INSANE. It's pretty much everything we got for Dejounte, Poeltl, plus young players who have proven they can play in Keldon and Branham. HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE DEAL. Moves like these are what ruin a franchise.

[Ariel]

That's really not that far-fetched and something spurs certainly have in the back of therr minds. If, and he def will, Wemby is the real thing, some superstars will understand you can build a dynasty there. 7 years in, Luka is still ringless, if Vic becomes the face of the NBA, luka (as well as some other superstar) might want to make the best of his last prime years.
Which is why PATIENCE IS NEEDED. The Spurs will get there, but Sochan, Branham and the rest of the core are not yet ready, and neither is Wemby TBH. I can see him making the all star team soon (maybe even this season, mainly on hype), but contending is just another ball game. This season should be focused on getting Wemby's feet firmly set in the league, developing the cast and the chemistry together. Maybe do a few trades, get a physical center to protect him (Plumlee?) and a veteran PG plus some shooting, pick up a couple interesting prospects and go from there. I think we could be in contention by year 3, which is '25 and coincidentally it's a big free agency offseason. If everything evolves faster than expected, then you can always make a bigger trade next year, or whenever an interesting piece becomes available. If you burn your assets prematurely for pennies on the dollar you end up just like Dallas and Wemby will ask for a trade after his rookie extension.

[RC_Drunkford]

You don't make any boneheaded "We're going all in" decisions. If executed perfectly, the Spurs can build the most dominant roster in NBA history. Even more dominant than the Dubs with KD. Yeah I said it.

[JADG79]

Wemby needs some weight and development. Safe option is to get more picks or move up in the draft to get another player. Spurs will not risk Wemby this year with too much load.

NYK has Evan Fournier bad contract and a lot of picks to trade and Dallas' 10th pick is the most to watch because of Bertans and Hardaway contracts. Both teams need a desperate move to compete next year and Bertans have only 5M guarantees in 2024-2025.

Also Fournier could help Wemby in many aspects.

[BacktoBasics]

Wemby needs some weight and development. Safe option is to get more picks or move up in the draft to get another player. Spurs will not risk Wemby this year with too much load.

NYK has Evan Fournier bad contract and a lot of picks to trade and Dallas' 10th pick is the most to watch because of Bertans and Hardaway contracts. Both teams need a desperate move to compete next year and Bertans have only 5M guarantees in 2024-2025.

Also Fournier could help Wemby in many aspects.

The last thing we want is this kid gaining a bunch of weight. Let his body fill out naturally as he ages.

[Extra Stout]

You don't make any boneheaded "We're going all in" decisions. If executed perfectly, the Spurs can build the most dominant roster in NBA history. Even more dominant than the Dubs with KD. Yeah I said it.
It makes more sense to me to be patient with Wemby’s development, let things roll with the young players, and take their chances with all the draft picks at pulling off what OKC and GSW did over a few years of drafting.

[Extra Stout]

The last thing we want is this kid gaining weight.
As he enters his early 20’s he will bulk up some.

[BackHome]

They've never held back a rookie that was good. Never. I mean look at how much run Sochan got.

No one has ever drafted a rookie quite like Wemby...and Sochan is built like a Truck..lol

[CGD]

Joe Harris is another. He’s expiring but Nets may be paying tax again this year for a meh team assuming they keep Johnson, don’t waive Dinwiddle, and retain Seth Curry. May want to dump his 19M. They also have Suns FRPs.

Something like Harris + Patty + FRP for Birch and a few seconds.

The other trade that seems interesting to me is:

SAS: Harris + 29FRP
PHI: Berch + Graham

Spurs eat 19M and next a FRP. Too steep? Not sure was going rate for FRP is these days.

[BatManu20]

The other trade that seems interesting to me is:

SAS: Harris + 29FRP
PHI: Berch + Graham

Spurs eat 19M and next a FRP. Too steep? Not sure was going rate for FRP is these days.


IDK, 29 FRP’s seems a bit drastic.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how about that wanker kyrie for pg?

[lefty20]

how about that wanker kyrie for pg?

Do you want to us to self-destruct? Cuz that's how you self-destruct.

[CGD]

IDK, 29 FRP’s seems a bit drastic.

Ha— I meant Philly’s 2029 FRP, which by my count is the first they can trade in a while.

[Mr. Body]

Jesus, is Philly that tapped out? Man, they're in trouble.

[CGD]

Jesus, is Philly that tapped out? Man, they're in trouble.

Yeah, it’s pretty bad. And it would suck extra if they lose Harden for nothing.

[talkspurs]

Do you think a second pick is worth more than an actual all star (DJM)?

This is what I keep looking at. People are willing to trade everything for a player that might become good. I would rather hold onto the picks. Ben was a cant miss player so was Zion, Fultz. Some others that were supposed to be good but have not done much. Ja, Tre young, Ayton, Luka (yes luka). These players have all had good stats but have also shown to be immature at time. None of them except Ayton has had much PO success and Ayton was not the leader.
If I looked at it correctly only 1 first pick in the last 10 NBA Drafts has won a ring and that was Wiggins. When you get to the 2nd pick I am guessing it gets less likely they are as good. You win in the NBA by building a team and making some good picks but there are still unknown players found every year. Other way to build is by trading for stars but that misses a lot of the time also.

Looking at the last several years of champs.
GSW -Curry/thompson neither a 1st overall pick. 7/11
Bucks- Giannis 15th good supporting cast- holiday/lopez/ middleton 17/10/39
LA- Bron AD both first but lookout let them get healthy to win.
Raptors- Kawhi 15
2016 Cavs- Bron and Kirie Both first

When you look at some of the best players in the league currently only One I can think of that went # 1 is is embid
Jokic and Giannis went later
Even going to 2nd level not a lot of #1s as most of the ones that did anything are getting old.

What I am saying is dont try and force it. If we see a good deal go for it but it is not worth gutting our future for someone that may or may not turn out to be good or even if they are good how will they behave and what drama will they cause. Scoot is already saying he should be # 1 would that get brought up in practice? Would that cause him to leave earlier or want out if is doing well to so he can show he was leading the team.

[K...]

so is the best case conversion, 2 Second round picks gets a late first (from salary stressed teams, otherwise 2 srp gets a better srp), 2 late first get a late lottery, 2 late lottery gets close to a mid lottery so we maybe have 4 extra FRP if we convert things optimally and dont just sell picks. Anyone had a more scientific way of determining this?

[exstatic]

so is the best case conversion, 2 Second round picks gets a late first (from salary stressed teams, otherwise 2 srp gets a better srp), 2 late first get a late lottery, 2 late lottery gets close to a mid lottery so we maybe have 4 extra FRP if we convert things optimally and dont just sell picks. Anyone had a more scientific way of determining this?

There is no conversion chart. The values are fluid, depending on circumstances and availability of FRPs on the marketplace.

[DPG21920]

The key here and why it’s important is because if you want to cash in on a disgruntled star via trade, you absolutely want to keep control of your OWN picks in the process. So if you do the work now and stockpile other picks, you can still make those trades for a star AND control your own destiny as a back up plan and/or to keep adding to team via rookie scale deals.

It’s absolutely critical to have control over your own picks whether rebuilding or building a contender

[scott]

The key here and why it’s important is because if you want to cash in on a disgruntled star via trade, you absolutely want to keep control of your OWN picks in the process. So if you do the work now and stockpile other picks, you can still make those trades for a star AND control your own destiny as a back up plan and/or to keep adding to team via rookie scale deals.

It’s absolutely critical to have control over your own picks whether rebuilding or building a contender

What’s nice about having unprotected FRPs from ATL in 2025 and 2027, is we could trade the worse of ours and ATL’s and have effectively what you are talking about while still basically trading out a pick that is valuable (since it’s not protected and could still be as high as 2)

[DPG21920]

What’s nice about having unprotected FRPs from ATL in 2025 and 2027, is we could trade the worse of ours and ATL’s and have effectively what you are talking about while still basically trading out a pick that is valuable (since it’s not protected and could still be as high as 2)

Yup. Spurs have done so well here having all their own firsts and so many extra/swaps. They should add more this year if they can with their cap space.