Reassessing the Roster After the Spurs Win the Victor Wembanyama Lottery

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/reevaluating-spurs-roster-after-victor-wembanyama/

In reassessing, IMO, I think the Spurs need to be more stubborn about handing out long-term deals. Previously, I liked the idea of extending Vassell, Jones and Collins. Now? Man, I like the idea of having cap flexibility until we get a better read on what Wembanyama is currently and the best type of players to surround him with going forward.

[Spurs Homer]

not too high on wesley and hope the spurs do not choose him over - say langford - langfords defense is better than wesleys defense AND offense - COMBINED...

thanks for the write - up but i was hoping to read something about the spurs efforts to acquire another point guard in the draft?

[TD 21]

Relatively speaking, none Vassell, Collins or Jones (the notion of ever giving him 4 years was insane) is likely to break the bank.

I wouldn't go more than 2 guaranteed years with Collins or Jones, but something like MLE type money would be fine.

Vassell is trickier, but slightly ($2M annually?) more than Johnson sounds about right.

Presuming relative health, they (less so Jones) should have decent or better resale value going forward.

Even if they start Sochan as the nominal PG and move Jones to the bench, I don't see how it would affect Branham. More like Graham.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not too worried about salaries. The team needs to acquire a ton of salary just to make the floor. I do think Jones is a future backup somewhere. I don't think the concerns about Vassell are too upsetting. No one was playing defense last year. I think he was held out on purpose. But the team will have a better idea of his health than we do.

Each of those players, including Keldon and especially Collins, are going to be attractive to a lot of teams if they need to be moved. I don't particularly think they will. The Collins-Wembanyama-Sochan frontline seems to have a ton of promise already.

The biggest question to me is how to handle Keldon and Sochan in the starting unit. I absolutely do not think this "Sochan is a PG" has merit. Can he run as a point power forward (or SF)? Yes. But you don't want him matching up with quick PGs full time. You might be able to up-match and have Vassell guard those guys - the Foxes and SGAs and Kyries - but Sochan won't work there. On the other side, you probably want a PF to try to match a much faster Sochan.

So you have to solve the PG problem and the Keldon/Sochan problem. To me, Sochan comes off the bench, which he did at Baylor.

And I'm not terribly concerned about Wesley and Branham. To me there's no overlap between Vassell and Branham. They're completely different players. I don't think any room has to be made for Branham's court time. Wesley is another matter. His freshman numbers were similar to his friend Jaden Ivey's numbers as a freshman. G-League, some NBA, work out his issues.

[RC_Drunkford]

I actually think the Spurs should lock up young role players on good deals with declining salaries. Front load the contracts so you have more cap room later down the line. These guys will still improve and only become more expensive later. Lock them into good value contracts early.

[Seventyniner]

Good article. :bobo

But minus 2 points for not using "Wem-bomb-yama".

[Obstructed_View]

not too high on wesley and hope the spurs do not choose him over - say langford - langfords defense is better than wesleys defense AND offense - COMBINED...

thanks for the write - up but i was hoping to read something about the spurs efforts to acquire another point guard in the draft?

Romeo is four years older and is pretty close to what he is ever going to be as a player. Wesley was a home run swing. He could be a superstar or he could be...well, Langford. If you have to choose between them there simply isn't any debate about it. Langford hasn't shown anything, and he doesn't have the excuse that he's just a crazy young pup.

[Obstructed_View]

Timvp touched on it, but it bears repeating: Wembanyama turned Dougie from a "trade now" guy into one of the most valuable players on the team. He will absolutely punish teams for doubling Victor, and he can be covered on the defensive end. Before the draft lottery he was at the top of my to-trade list. Unless the Spurs are planning not to make the playoffs, he needs to stay at least until the deadline.

[spurraider21]

Good write up but having more confidence in keldon than Vassell as a fit is pretty mind boggling imo

[Frenchfred]

I actually think the Spurs should lock up young role players on good deals with declining salaries. Front load the contracts so you have more cap room later down the line. These guys will still improve and only become more expensive later. Lock them into good value contracts early.

if the cap is increasing by 10% a year, wouldn't it make sense to do the opposite?

[CGD]

Gotta keep Devon (and Tre) even just for asset preservation. If they do it right those could be good value in future moves. I just also see Devon as a great fit with Wemby generally.

And the Tre situation is tricky. Can’t just let him walk without having a solution in place, and I echo another commenter in saying Sochan isn’t the solution long term.

[intlspurshk]

Either KJ or Vassel and Jones should be traded for PG upgrade before the end of next season. Assuming Malaki is the future SG, DG and Doug should be traded by the end of next season. Wesley will be kept for 1-2 seasons and KBD should be re-signed for defence. Langford should be let go. Mamu and JC should be brought back. KB and GD both retire and Barlow should be re-signed if he is not expensive. Spurs should sign a FA centre to rebound and box out to keep Victor healthy

[Chinook]

Good write up but having more confidence in keldon than Vassell as a fit is pretty mind boggling imo

I disagree with the polarity of his takes on basically every player. I'm not sure I like the Spurs team he's envisioning, and I'd be curious to know what other takes his source has had to get a sense of how their opinions have fit in with reality. That the Spurs were supposedly preparing for Wemby for years actually bothers me quite a bit. Like I'm glad they won the lottery and all, but they were way more unlikely to win it (especially going into last season) than win. What was their plan then? What's their plan if Wemby is a slow-starter, just a decent pick? Tim was a GOAT candidate, and he still had multiple eventual HOFers on his teams. To think the Spurs' plan was to win the lotto and then turn into the Pelicans is disheartening. Even if everything immediately translated with Wembanyama, the Spurs aren't a good team, and they shouldn't be taking on a win-now posture, ESPECIALLY if that isn't accompanied by more aggressive moves to bring in talent.

Only PATFO and Vassell's doctors know how much of his missed time last year was truly for injury. If they think Devin is a real injury risk going forward, moving him at what would be the peak of his value (during the draft when they can trick teams into thinking they're just trying to move up and before Vassell has to play more games) could make sense. But I don't think Johnson being a "fit" with Wemby is a plus, since it's basically in the same way Wemby should make everyone better. I like Keldon, but I don't think he adds anything that Vassell doesn't have besides driving grit, while Devin adds quite a bit that Johnson doesn't. If health isn't a real fear then I think win now or win later, Vassell is easily the better option.

I'm not sure why a Spurs team that in this scenario is changing to a win-now posture (which apparently means not really wanting to bring back Jones and wants to shunt Wesley to Austin) wouldn't embrace having a vet combo-guard who can space the floor and run a unit. The target of Sochan learning a new position and the team in general having to learn how to shoot threes being a pathway to early wins is optimistic. I think the team could make a real playoff push with enough investment and luck. But unless they get an unnatural amount of luck, I don't see them doing that while relying on guys like Branham, Collins and PG Sochan to carry them. They were arguably the worst defense in the league last season and as far as I remember not a great offense. This roster is not a rookie Wemby away from success.

[Dejounte]

Chinook, serious question: what article were you reading? His source had one quote in the article, and the rest were speculation from timvp. I am really confused here. The Spurs haven’t made any indication what direction they’re headed in as of this moment.

[Chinook]

Chinook, serious question: what article were you reading? His source had one quote in the article, and the rest were speculation from timvp. I am really confused here. The Spurs haven’t made any indication what direction they’re headed in as of this moment.

I'm reading the same article you are. I did mention the source in the second sentence in my response, but most of my response was talking about LJ's write-up. I was replying to SR21's post disagreeing about Wemby making Keldon a better bet than Vassell and then going into other aspects of the article I disagree with. I did wonder if his source had a pulse on the team's thinking or not. My issue is of the vision of the Wemby Spurs. That vision was expressed in the article, whether that was merely the speculation of the author or the author's interpretation of a conversation with a source. I'm not attacking either individual personally

[Ariel]

Only PATFO and Vassell's doctors know how much of his missed time last year was truly for injury. If they think Devin is a real injury risk going forward, moving him at what would be the peak of his value (during the draft when they can trick teams into thinking they're just trying to move up and before Vassell has to play more games) could make sense. But I don't think Johnson being a "fit" with Wemby is a plus, since it's basically in the same way Wemby should make everyone better. I like Keldon, but I don't think he adds anything that Vassell doesn't have besides driving grit, while Devin adds quite a bit that Johnson doesn't. If health isn't a real fear then I think win now or win later, Vassell is easily the better option.
I agree with this. The Spurs should have a pretty good read on Vassell's status already, if it's bad (nothing so far makes me believe it is) then trade him now, otherwise if a good deal is on the table (a bit above Keldon's, same structure) then no sense in putting it on hold. Locking up young players long term on good deals is never a bad idea.

[objective]

I think Vassell will benefit the most from Wemby. I think he'll score 25 a game. Unless the injury has longer lingering effects.

I don't think Jones is good enough for even an mle deal. Any deal with him should be short.

KBD isn't good enough for more than the minimum. No impact player.

Don't have much faith in Wesley ever being an NBA player, guess we'll see if he's any better in summer league.

[Extra Stout]

I think there is still too much hand-waving away of Keldon Johnson’s, and to a lesser extent, Devin Vassell’s bad defense. KJ is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the NBA. He’s bad man-to-man, he’s bad on ball screens, and he’s bad on rotations. He is to defense what Blake Wesley is to finishing in the lane, except he has four years in the league. His supposedly heavy offensive load is not an excuse. I understand not having the lateral movement, but not knowing the proper play to make on defense over and over again is about preparation and effort. Four years in, and it’s still “maybe he can improve to league average.” What? And he’s considered a natural leader? A leader? What message does he send to the rest of the team with his example other than “defense is irrelevant?” No wonder the team was historically bad on that end. Are we going to excuse his bad play because his contract is “team-friendly?” Is $74 million for a guy who scores 22 and gives up 25 a night team-friendly?

And Vassell - he was heralded coming out of FSU as a 3 and D guy who “had all the tools.” Well, when is he going to display those tools? Are we going to make the same excuse, that he was just asked to score too much? Or blame the injury? Or maybe say that everyone just played bad defense on purpose for the tank?

So what, is the plan now to let Wemby clean up their messes on defense, and just hope that Wemby is as nice about it as David Robinson was back in the day? Somehow I doubt it.

I got the gist from the article that the Spurs’ strategy is going to be roster conservatism together with an unwillingness to commit salary long-term until they know how guys play with Wemby. I think I opined last week that I thought 2023-24 would be another rebuilding year, and the gist I got would support that opinion.

But if their plan really is to be more aggressive in finding complementary pieces earlier, I doubt they’d leak it to the media (which the esteemed Mr. Ellis is) anyway.

[Mr. Body]

The article does seem strangely apocalyptic. We may need to give money to players that can be moved? That tends to be something that happens. Trading some of these guys at this point makes no sense. I can only see Keldon as a possibility, and only if the right draft room deal comes up, and this is because of fit, defense, and the inertia of likely having him on the block pre-Wemby.

The only real roster questions revolve around saying goodbye to Langford and a couple others. Cap questions about how to use it to get more assets. Of course Tre Jones is worth keeping. And see if the PG role can be bolstered somehow. That's it, other than the starting unit.

[onechance87]

I think Vassell will benefit the most from Wemby. I think he'll score 25 a game. Unless the injury has longer lingering effects.

I don't think Jones is good enough for even an mle deal. Any deal with him should be short.

KBD isn't good enough for more than the minimum. No impact player.

Don't have much faith in Wesley ever being an NBA player, guess we'll see if he's any better in summer league.

Think it would good to have a good long strong small foward along side with wemby and sochan....Think kbd should be brought back if theres not anything better we can sign

[Mr. Body]

I think there is still too much hand-waving away of Keldon Johnson’s, and to a lesser extent, Devin Vassell’s bad defense. KJ is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the NBA. He’s bad man-to-man, he’s bad on ball screens, and he’s bad on rotations. He is to defense what Blake Wesley is to finishing in the lane, except he has four years in the league. His supposedly heavy offensive load is not an excuse. I understand not having the lateral movement, but not knowing the proper play to make on defense over and over again is about preparation and effort. Four years in, and it’s still “maybe he can improve to league average.” What? And he’s considered a natural leader? A leader? What message does he send to the rest of the team with his example other than “defense is irrelevant?” No wonder the team was historically bad on that end. Are we going to excuse his bad play because his contract is “team-friendly?” Is $74 million for a guy who scores 22 and gives up 25 a night team-friendly?

And Vassell - he was heralded coming out of FSU as a 3 and D guy who “had all the tools.” Well, when is he going to display those tools? Are we going to make the same excuse, that he was just asked to score too much? Or blame the injury? Or maybe say that everyone just played bad defense on purpose for the tank?

So what, is the plan now to let Wemby clean up their messes on defense, and just hope that Wemby is as nice about it as David Robinson was back in the day? Somehow I doubt it.

I got the gist from the article that the Spurs’ strategy is going to be roster conservatism together with an unwillingness to commit salary long-term until they know how guys play with Wemby. I think I opined last week that I thought 2023-24 would be another rebuilding year, and the gist I got would support that opinion.

But if their plan really is to be more aggressive in finding complementary pieces earlier, I doubt they’d leak it to the media (which the esteemed Mr. Ellis is) anyway.

Yeah, definitely would say some of the defensive woes were due to undervaluing on purpose. Too many blown rotations and laziness in transition went uncommented-upon by Pop. That said, I don't think Johnson is going to be good. I do think Vassell will be fine. And we're going to see Pop start lacing into guys on blown assignments once again.

[Frenchfred]

I think there is still too much hand-waving away of Keldon Johnson’s, and to a lesser extent, Devin Vassell’s bad defense. KJ is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the NBA. He’s bad man-to-man, he’s bad on ball screens, and he’s bad on rotations. He is to defense what Blake Wesley is to finishing in the lane, except he has four years in the league. His supposedly heavy offensive load is not an excuse. I understand not having the lateral movement, but not knowing the proper play to make on defense over and over again is about preparation and effort. Four years in, and it’s still “maybe he can improve to league average.” What? And he’s considered a natural leader? A leader? What message does he send to the rest of the team with his example other than “defense is irrelevant?” No wonder the team was historically bad on that end. Are we going to excuse his bad play because his contract is “team-friendly?” Is $74 million for a guy who scores 22 and gives up 25 a night team-friendly?

And Vassell - he was heralded coming out of FSU as a 3 and D guy who “had all the tools.” Well, when is he going to display those tools? Are we going to make the same excuse, that he was just asked to score too much? Or blame the injury? Or maybe say that everyone just played bad defense on purpose for the tank?

So what, is the plan now to let Wemby clean up their messes on defense, and just hope that Wemby is as nice about it as David Robinson was back in the day? Somehow I doubt it.

I got the gist from the article that the Spurs’ strategy is going to be roster conservatism together with an unwillingness to commit salary long-term until they know how guys play with Wemby. I think I opined last week that I thought 2023-24 would be another rebuilding year, and the gist I got would support that opinion.

But if their plan really is to be more aggressive in finding complementary pieces earlier, I doubt they’d leak it to the media (which the esteemed Mr. Ellis is) anyway.

ok so how do you trade Johnson? How many 1st pick do you send with him and for whom?

[exstatic]

https://www.spurstalk.com/reevaluating-spurs-roster-after-victor-wembanyama/

In reassessing, IMO, I think the Spurs need to be more stubborn about handing out long-term deals. Previously, I liked the idea of extending Vassell, Jones and Collins. Now? Man, I like the idea of having cap flexibility until we get a better read on what Wembanyama is currently and the best type of players to surround him with going forward.

There will always be a market for young Spurs developed players on reasonable $18-20M contracts, and in fact, teams may prefer a few years of contract control to, say Vassell on the Spurs 4th year option pickup.

[Extra Stout]

ok so how do you trade Johnson? How many 1st pick do you send with him and for whom?
There’s been a lot of talk in the forum about moving him as part of a package to move up in the draft and get a playmaking guard. Admittedly that doesn’t work if other front offices see him the way I do — for me he’d be the kind of player you take back to make the salaries work. But some GM’s might appraise him higher.

[Chinook]

I think there is still too much hand-waving away of Keldon Johnson’s, and to a lesser extent, Devin Vassell’s bad defense. KJ is one of the worst perimeter defenders in the NBA. He’s bad man-to-man, he’s bad on ball screens, and he’s bad on rotations. He is to defense what Blake Wesley is to finishing in the lane, except he has four years in the league. His supposedly heavy offensive load is not an excuse. I understand not having the lateral movement, but not knowing the proper play to make on defense over and over again is about preparation and effort. Four years in, and it’s still “maybe he can improve to league average.” What? And he’s considered a natural leader? A leader? What message does he send to the rest of the team with his example other than “defense is irrelevant?” No wonder the team was historically bad on that end. Are we going to excuse his bad play because his contract is “team-friendly?” Is $74 million for a guy who scores 22 and gives up 25 a night team-friendly?

And Vassell - he was heralded coming out of FSU as a 3 and D guy who “had all the tools.” Well, when is he going to display those tools? Are we going to make the same excuse, that he was just asked to score too much? Or blame the injury? Or maybe say that everyone just played bad defense on purpose for the tank?

So what, is the plan now to let Wemby clean up their messes on defense, and just hope that Wemby is as nice about it as David Robinson was back in the day? Somehow I doubt it.

I got the gist from the article that the Spurs’ strategy is going to be roster conservatism together with an unwillingness to commit salary long-term until they know how guys play with Wemby. I think I opined last week that I thought 2023-24 would be another rebuilding year, and the gist I got would support that opinion.

But if their plan really is to be more aggressive in finding complementary pieces earlier, I doubt they’d leak it to the media (which the esteemed Mr. Ellis is) anyway.

Yes, the Spurs were extremely bad on defense. They aren't the first team that was trying to lose games. They weren't the first team devoid of elite talent. There's not much of an excuse for them being one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Johnson has been among the worst in the NBA for basically his entire career, but his move to small-forward was a huge blow to even his anemic defense at PF. Moving more toward two-guard is going to make it even worse. Dude is a power-forward. I get that he had defensive issues there, but he'll literally have those everywhere. He's not fundamentally different than DeShaun Thomas in that way. He might work with Wemby, but basically everyone would. He's not even a guy with elite scoring potential like apparently Branham has to where he's might actually add things if the team can protect him on the other end. Keldon, like a Lopez is a fine short-term training-wheel player for a couple of years. But I don't see him as long-term high-option player on this current team.

[onechance87]

Yes, the Spurs were extremely bad on defense. They aren't the first team that was trying to lose games. They weren't the first team devoid of elite talent. There's not much of an excuse for them being one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Johnson has been among the worst in the NBA for basically his entire career, but his move to small-forward was a huge blow to even his anemic defense at PF. Moving more toward two-guard is going to make it even worse. Dude is a power-forward. I get that he had defensive issues there, but he'll literally have those everywhere. He's not fundamentally different than DeShaun Thomas in that way. He might work with Wemby, but basically everyone would. He's not even a guy with elite scoring potential like apparently Branham has to where he's might actually add things if the team can protect him on the other end. Keldon, like a Lopez is a fine short-term training-wheel player for a couple of years. But I don't see him as long-term high-option player on this current team.

Think he goes to the sixth man role then...We gonna need a good strong small foward helping defend along with wemby...Doesnt seem kd not the man for the job is what ur saying...Its gotta be sochan who starts with wemby

[Rubberducky]

I agree with Chinook, article has me more worried about the direction. The next month shouldn't be that difficult.


Extend Vassell (assuming his injury isn't serious)
Lock up Tre Jones as a solid back up
Explore a trade to get another lottery pick for a PG such as Wallace/Black (only if it's not an overpay)
Make an offer to a big in FA (Jakob/Lopez/etc), move on with Collins if they decline.

I think most of Spurstalk has similar views. This isn't rocket science.

[spurraider21]

Vassell was a solid defender in years 1 and 2 and fell off in year 3, where he took off offensively and with good efficiency.

keldon has been a poor defender every year.

for Vassell, the variable is if he can go back to at least the level of defense we’ve already seen. With keldon the variables include becoming a better defender than he’s ever shown to be (plus increasing his offensive efficiency)

Vassell is also a much better playmaker than keldon. It’s a question of health. If the spurs were willing to extend Murray with a torn ACL they certainly should extend vassell

And screw “waiting and seeing what wemby is.” If Vassell is a good talent, get him locked up now. If you later determine for whatever reason he doesn’t work with wemby, you can trade him. Why wait on an extension and then either lose him for nothing or have to pay him even more than what you could just give him now? Even with the wemby paradigm, still have to manage your assets well

feel the same way about Zollins. Centers with that kind of size and offensive ability don’t show up everywhere. We gambled with the 3 year deal. It paid off. Capitalize on it. Whats the point of having a successful 3 year deal on a team not even trying to win during that 3 year window?

[Mr. Body]

I agree with Chinook, article has me more worried about the direction. The next month shouldn't be that difficult.


Extend Vassell (assuming his injury isn't serious)
Lock up Tre Jones as a solid back up
Explore a trade to get another lottery pick for a PG such as Wallace/Black (only if it's not an overpay)
Make an offer to a big in FA (Jakob/Lopez/etc), move on with Collins if they decline.

I think most of Spurstalk has similar views. This isn't rocket science.

Agree to all the above except going after a big in FA.

[Uriel]

Can we just hire Dieng as an assistant coach so we can free up a spot on the roster?

[Uriel]

Also, such a shame on the Khem Birch front. He was the best backup 4 for the team on 2K :lol

[HemisfairArena]

Spurs will make a huge mistake if they dont make moves to win now,,,,,the kid has even said he wants to compete for champions very soon. You dont do that by stockpiling picks and waiting for youngsters to develop. Spurs need to make a splash with some of those picks and land a proven all star player.

[KobesAchilles]

It’s weird bc I think Sochan is the perfect fit for Wemby 3 years from now. Currently he doesn’t match well with Wemby at all since Wemby will be playing PF on defense and Sochan is too small to be a C on defense. Collins and Wemby match perfectly currently. But in 3 years when Wemby gets muscle and nba strength then he could slide over to the C on defense and Sochan will be our PF.

Sochan is a PF and always will be. It’s what he’s best suited for. But I think you have to bench him for the coming years until he learns to shoot. Also Devin can stay but KJ has to go. Unless he too comes off the bench.

Personally, I feel like the only starters we have on the team are Wemby and Collins. Otherwise we need to get some more talent.

[The Truth #6]

A lot of details to be worked out but I’m looking at this more simply. Avoid keeping/paying key players unless they can also play defense.

A few exceptions, like if Branham’s offense continues to show high upside. That means McD would probably have to go, and perhaps could be cheaply replaced by Champagnie—just spitballing. I’d keep Tre Jones at a backup salary rate if possible because he’s a good backup and understands defense.

There’s no way you can trade both KJ and DV, but national media seems to think they both play good defense, and so their trade value may be peaking, I definitely agree with that, and with greater expectations and scrutiny the holes in their game may be exposed to a degree.

But we’ll see.

[BackHome]

So what is Wemby a SF, PF, C? It doesn’t really matter as I said earlier he can play what ever position he wants on offense and can defend against everyone but big brutes. I think him and Wemby will be a good pairing now Sochan might go to the bench when we play tough bigs like Joker and Embid otherwise he can guard most Centers in the league. As far as Collins I like him but I am thinking he is fools gold regarding his injuries I do not see him guarding Joker or Embid and I don’t know how much run he has before another season ending injury. Now with Keldon I am torn I think he is a great teammate who contributes to team chemistry. I think he would make a great sixth man kinda like our own Energizer Bunny. Sign Tre to a very friendly deal, let Landford go way to inconsistent, KBD not sure about him but for sure he is not part of long term plans.

I really do not want to get any big free agents I want to see Wemby play the whole season and grade out the players that play with him. As far as bringing in free agents do not want Poodle as he will clog the lane

[bluebellmaniac]

It’s weird bc I think Sochan is the perfect fit for Wemby 3 years from now. Currently he doesn’t match well with Wemby at all since Wemby will be playing PF on defense and Sochan is too small to be a C on defense. Collins and Wemby match perfectly currently. But in 3 years when Wemby gets muscle and nba strength then he could slide over to the C on defense and Sochan will be our PF.

Sochan is a PF and always will be. It’s what he’s best suited for. But I think you have to bench him for the coming years until he learns to shoot. Also Devin can stay but KJ has to go. Unless he too comes off the bench.

Personally, I feel like the only starters we have on the team are Wemby and Collins. Otherwise we need to get some more talent.

If you think Wemby and Collins are the only starting caliber players on the team at present, then the good news is we have a hell-of-a strong bench!

Pick up the one best F/A you can get this summer and it's a huge win. Then pick up another one best F/A you can get next year along with what we can strengthen via our first rounders and we have a hell-of-a team next year.

[timvp]

Good write up but having more confidence in keldon than Vassell as a fit is pretty mind boggling imo

Eh, I could have been clearer but I don't have more confidence in Keldon than Vassell. If I had to pick one, I'd go with Vassell.

Since Keldon already signed his extension, I looked at whether he's a fit. Vassell's assessment was based on whether to pay him big bucks on an extension. Regarding that, I'm more hesitant now after Wemby ... but I'd still sign him to a Keldon-esque deal.

[spurraider21]

Move on from Tre

Move up in the draft for another PG like Wallace or Black and move on from Tre.

rookie pg, Graham, Wesley is good enough with branham spotlighting at pg

[spurraider21]

Eh, I could have been clearer but I don't have more confidence in Keldon than Vassell. If I had to pick one, I'd go with Vassell.

Since Keldon already signed his extension, I looked at whether he's a fit. Vassell's assessment was based on whether to pay him big bucks on an extension. Regarding that, I'm more hesitant now after Wemby ... but I'd still sign him to a Keldon-esque deal.
You don’t have to pick one. It’s not like these are immovable assets unless they get hit by serious injury. It’s not like keldon has negative value right now.

[spurs1990]

A fivesome of Branham, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan and Wembanyama could theoretically become Pop’s preferred closing lineup.

That’s your ‘19, ‘20, ‘22, and ‘23 FRP. Built through the draft

[gilmor2002]

saw KJ playing in China.. he is a street balla..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Very interesting article, but count me in the worried about the direction camp as well.

I thought there were too many likely to come back players. I understand the Spurs trying to be somewhat conservative in the first year or two, but they need to be more proactive when it comes to the roster construction, because many players will have to change in order to fit roles around a hopefully blossoming MVP in a few years. I don't see either of Barlow or Champagnie returning unless on a two-way contract. Can't see Langford, KBD, Dieng or Birch taking up a roster spot either. Birch's contract might be used in a trade but if not I fully expect him to be bought out before the season starts. Disregarding all of the mentioned players, the Spurs have 9 roster spots taken up, with two more likely to return (Tre, Mamu). So we have 4 spots available for potentially another rookie, free agent signings and possible 2 or 3 for 1 trades.

Of course aggressive trading could change this calculation, and I'm inclined to believe they will try to do so, because as currently constructed the roster doesn't fit well at all with a PF Wemby. There's not enough shooting, there's not enough penetration and rim pressure, there's not enough perimeter defense. I'm also incredibly surprised at the continued proposition of Sochan as a PG. It's great having that as a change of pace but can't see it full time, it's a gimmick, unless his game changes significantly.

That said, I imagine the FO plan consists of a continued roster development and change, because what the team have and need now would probably be different than what they'll need in 3 years, or in 5 years. It's not unreasonable to think that no player, except for Wemby, would be on the roster in 5 years when the team would hopefully be contending. We often comment on current players as if there will be a significant number of them developing together with Wemby in a similar way that Tony, Manu and Bruce were around Tim for a long time, but this seems highly unlikely.

So, I understand them trying to see what they have and how players might fit for the future and, say Keldon's fit in year one, isn't that important in the grand scheme of things - it's more about how the team would evolve. For example, a lot of the pure shooters like McDermott and Graham would ideally be eventually replaced by true 3 and D players, but for now they're OK on a team that desperately needs shooting and spacing for a young Wemby. They'll also have to think about what the ideal construction would be in light of the new CBA. Having so many future picks available to them would be very helpful in this because they may need to wheel and deal a lot, especially before Wemby signs his max extension (hopefully).

All in all, it'll be super interesting and exciting watching them develop and build the roster. Let's hope they're successful and that the players stay healthy.

[Mr. Body]

Man, why are a few people shitting themselves over this opportunity? No one's using up tons of assets to remake this roster overnight. That's insane.

And why do people think Wembanyama is some center where we're going to be running 4-down play after play? Wembanyama is going to provide spacing for forays into the lane by other players. They're going to run pick-and-rolls and plenty of other actions, but this ain't the Duncan-era. He's not that player. He likes to range the perimeter. He'll drag their bigs out as often as he moves inside.

Settle down.

[Ditty]

#Tank4Collier

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Devin Vassell’s bad defense.
And Vassell - he was heralded coming out of FSU as a 3 and D guy who “had all the tools.” Well, when is he going to display those tools? Are we going to make the same excuse, that he was just asked to score too much? Or blame the injury? Or maybe say that everyone just played bad defense on purpose for the tank?
Have you been hiding from covid in the desert or forest from 2020 to 2022 without the Internet and TV?
He played well in off-ball defense both seasons and showed good stretches of on-ball defense even in the third season. But in order to understand this, of course, you need not only to watch the games, but also to understand the topic.

[Bruno]

Thanks for the article. I've barely watched Spurs played last season so I can't/won't comment on your players' evaluation.

There is obviously the trap of overpaying for players putting good stats with a bad team. Vassell and Jones have nice numbers but how much are they inflated by playing with arguably the worst team in the league?

Salary wise, there will be a new TV deal in 2025 and it should be a huge one. With the new CBA, it means that the salary cap is a lock to raise by 10% each year for a foreseeable future. Salary cap is projected at $134M in 2023-2024. You can guesstimate a $145M cap in 2024-2025. After that it will be $160M in 2025-2026, $176M in 2026-2027, $194M in 2027-2028...
Giving Tre Jone $40M/4 years with a frontloaded contract means that is 2026-2027 salary would be $8.7M. That's about 5% of the cap which seems reasonable even if he is only a backup PG. Saying that, a deal like $30M/2 years might be a win/win for the sides.

If Wemby becomes a dominant scorer, shooting alongside him will be crucial. He is a good passer and smart player so he should be able to punish double-teaming with the right teammates. The difficulty would be to get players that are than just shooters. More McDermott isn't obviously the answer.

Sochan PG skills might allow Spurs to play some minutes with a combo guard instead of a PG. One can imagine something like Spurs in 2015 with Manu being the half court PG and Mills being a shooter/scorer.

Gorgui Dieng speak some french even if it isn't his native language. It's noteworthy if you want to re-sign him as guide/mentor for Wemby.

Even if Wemby turns to be as good as we all hope for, it will take some times for him to reach that level and it will also takes some times to build a competitive roster. Mistakes will be made, some players viewed as good prospects won't pan out. A lot of players will need to be added through the draft, free agency and trades. It's just the beginning.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell - keeper - extend him to a declining deal with about 2 million more per year than Keldon, that should be realistic
Keldon - should keep him for now, but if you can get someone like Jaylen Brown you trade him
Sochan - keeper
Branham - keeper
Tre Jones - keeper as a back up PG. Lock him into a declining deal like 10, 10, 8, 8. Thats the maximum I would give him.
Zollins - let him play this season, then either work out an extension around January for a reasonable price or let him hit FA
Champagnie - keeper - lock him into a Bassey type of deal, he should be able to replace Doug pretty well
McDermott - trade at the deadline
Graham - trade at the deadline
Dieng - make him part of the coaching staff
Wesley - let him get NBA minutes. I wouldn't just park him in the G-League. He can bounce back and forth, he's a long term project
Barlow - 2-way deal
Bassey - locked into a great contract
KBD - let him go, he's never gonna be more than a 3rd stringer
Langford - let him go, might be out of the league soon
Mamu - bring him back as an end of the bench guy around 1.5 to 2.5 million. Good value for a 3rd stringer
Birch - will never play, just salary ballast

Then you grab another first rounder for a PG, maybe sign a vet C even though I don't think that's totally neccessary. Maybe see if you can sign Grant Williams, Austin Reaves or Cam Johnson on a good deal (the last 2 gonna get paid too much I think). Take on a bad contract for more assets. And then you wait and see how the Jaylen Brown in Boston and Doncic in Dallas situations work out and make more moves next offseason.

It's really not that hard

[LeBowen]

^
I agree with everything except for Jaylen Brown part.

He's not good enough for a supermax deal, not even close. And I doubt he'd take anything less.
50 million a year for a guy who's not good enough to be a consistent second option on a contender? Pass.
30-35 would be reasonable, he's not worth more than that.

And he's "already" 27, so he'd be 30 by the time Spurs hit their window and then you'd have to give him another big deal.


I'd keep an eye out for Anthony Edwards. They'll probably get rid of KAT, but if that trade doesn't help them, I can see Edwards wanting out.

[RC_Drunkford]

^
I agree with everything except for Jaylen Brown part.

He's not good enough for a supermax deal, not even close. And I doubt he'd take anything less.
50 million a year for a guy who's not good enough to be a consistent second option on a contender? Pass.
30-35 would be reasonable, he's not worth more than that.

And he's "already" 27, so he'd be 30 by the time Spurs hit their window and then you'd have to give him another big deal.


I'd keep an eye out for Anthony Edwards. They'll probably get rid of KAT, but if that trade doesn't help them, I can see Edwards wanting out.

I highly doubt that he would get the supermax from the Celtics. Other teams can obviously offer the max, but not the supermax. Add to that that we have cap space to utilize as long as Wemby is on a rookie deal and with the increasing cap the contract might look a lot better later down the line. Now I don't know if you can frontload that deal, but that would make it even better. I'm not stuck on Jaylen coming here and also think he's not worth the money, I'm just looking at that type of scenario. The Spurs can bring in a guy that they overpay until Wemby is due for his extension. Another reason why I'm saying they should frontload the contracts of "the other guys"

[heyheymymy]

Spurs might add a flashy FA or move up in the draft and it wouldn't surprise me. But I think the realistic expectation is to retain corporate knowledge in true Spurs fashion. If so the roster is largely set:

Jones/Graham/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/McDermott/Bates-Diop/[Champagnie]
Sochan/Wembanyama/Mamu/[Barlow]
Zollins/Bassey/(Birch)

That's 14 so if they pick #33 and keep the preexisting two-ways they get one more two-way and then that's it. Just don't see a big Jaylen Brown type splash but not against it and not ruling anything out. Could see a smaller typical SA move like stealing Jaxson Hayes to fortify the bigs rotation.

I think Spurs have enough ball handlers already outside just some additional depth to optimize.

Spurs are better than they look, people are tainted by the tank season but that was deliberate losing efforts and even still look at the Nuggets game late season. NBA Finals future DEN was full strength and played hard and Spurs hung with the big dogs. I think people are underestimating the pre existing core a lot and getting dazzle eyes for a big splashy move but maybe we already got our guys barring some PG and C depth optimization.

I have been trying to solve the starting 5 and have settled on Victor off the bench. Retains the best chemistry starting 5 (Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Zollins), resolves the issue of playing people out of position (Sochan is not a PG, Victor is not a C), preserves the wear and tear management of Victor, and bolsters the bench.

Eventually working Victor to the Starting 5 asap but at least starting out it's a great way to ease in and see what you've got both with Victor as well as the surrounding complimentary pieces.

Another issue no one has mentioned is foul trouble. Victor is going to be an incredible player on the court but he's only got 6 fouls just like everyone else and he is no use to SA benched in foul trouble. If you play Victor at C, or if you start Victor against NBA starters, he is liable to rack up quick fouls. Bring him off the bench at first to help manage this until it shows it's not a problem. And run Victor at PF or SF. With Victor as PF you run a 4:3 P&R with a SF as the roll guy and let Victor stay out of the paint and be a quarterback hub for the offense. Branham cutters fed by Victor.

Seems so unorthodox to not start a #1 pick so I don't think I've seen many suggest this, but it would be true Spurs fashion to pull this and once you get over the optics it's a really workable solution that checks the most boxes. Try it out in your sims and see.

[RC_Drunkford]

no way Wemby is coming off the bench

[mo7888]

Spurs might add a flashy FA or move up in the draft and it wouldn't surprise me. But I think the realistic expectation is to retain corporate knowledge in true Spurs fashion. If so the roster is largely set:

Jones/Graham/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/McDermott/Bates-Diop/[Champagnie]
Sochan/Wembanyama/Mamu/[Barlow]
Zollins/Bassey/(Birch)

That's 14 so if they pick #33 and keep the preexisting two-ways they get one more two-way and then that's it. Just don't see a big Jaylen Brown type splash but not against it and not ruling anything out. Could see a smaller typical SA move like stealing Jaxson Hayes to fortify the bigs rotation.

I think Spurs have enough ball handlers already outside just some additional depth to optimize.

Spurs are better than they look, people are tainted by the tank season but that was deliberate losing efforts and even still look at the Nuggets game late season. NBA Finals future DEN was full strength and played hard and Spurs hung with the big dogs. I think people are underestimating the pre existing core a lot and getting dazzle eyes for a big splashy move but maybe we already got our guys barring some PG and C depth optimization.

I have been trying to solve the starting 5 and have settled on Victor off the bench. Retains the best chemistry starting 5 (Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Sochan, Zollins), resolves the issue of playing people out of position (Sochan is not a PG, Victor is not a C), preserves the wear and tear management of Victor, and bolsters the bench.

Eventually working Victor to the Starting 5 asap but at least starting out it's a great way to ease in and see what you've got both with Victor as well as the surrounding complimentary pieces.

Another issue no one has mentioned is foul trouble. Victor is going to be an incredible player on the court but he's only got 6 fouls just like everyone else and he is no use to SA benched in foul trouble. If you play Victor at C, or if you start Victor against NBA starters, he is liable to rack up quick fouls. Bring him off the bench at first to help manage this until it shows it's not a problem. And run Victor at PF or SF. With Victor as PF you run a 4:3 P&R with a SF as the roll guy and let Victor stay out of the paint and be a quarterback hub for the offense. Branham cutters fed by Victor.

Seems so unorthodox to not start a #1 pick so I don't think I've seen many suggest this, but it would be true Spurs fashion to pull this and once you get over the optics it's a really workable solution that checks the most boxes. Try it out in your sims and see.

There's no way a #1 pick is coming off the bench...and even moreso this #1 pick..

[heyheymymy]

Welp shit back to the drawing board then. I'm agreeable that the suggestion to bring a #1 off the bench initially temporarily is outlandish for sure.

Just still trying out different roster looks at first and liked this one for the functionality of it but tradition/appearances truly are so heavily weighted in this league.

Victor still has the same max carve out of mins reasonably allowed to him in both sim scenarios- starting 5 or off bench. He's still getting his mins either way fwiw.

[KobesAchilles]

Yeah you don’t fit your franchise player around a 21 win team by having him come off the bench for chemistry issues. You fit ur team around the franchise player so you know who to keep or who needs to work on what. “Chemistry” is whoever tf fits around Wemby not the other way around :lmao

[MultiTroll]

Will Durant try to force a trade to the Spurs now? :lol

[Extra Stout]

Wemby needs shooters. Jeremy Sochan needs to have a jump shot.

[heyheymymy]

haha alright apologies for the shit take I'll walk it back. It's just not an option.

To be fair I did say only at first: "Eventually working Victor to the Starting 5 asap but at least starting out"

Good problem to have though, pushing some talent to the bench at this point regardless who it is barring new personnel.

[heyheymymy]

Well you're still benching a top ten pick either way, or playing a Spur out of position so I don't see the riddle solved yet but clearly there are some non-negotiables. Obvs #1 trumps all but there's still questions in any current configuration barring new personnel.

[Mugen]

Don't waste a roster spot on Dieng tbh, wtf :lol

[rjv]

i'd rather keep branham than jones and, as for wesley, it seems as if how far he goes with the spurs may be in his own hands. i was concerned about vasssell's knees before the spurs even secured the rights to draft wemby but i'd love to see him stay healthy and secure his spot with this roster. there are a lot of questions towards the end of the roster and that doesn't even include figuring in the question of whether or not there are any free agents out there that the spurs may be considering, which i assume will be the subject of a forthcoming ST piece.

[rjv]

Timvp touched on it, but it bears repeating: Wembanyama turned Dougie from a "trade now" guy into one of the most valuable players on the team. He will absolutely punish teams for doubling Victor, and he can be covered on the defensive end. Before the draft lottery he was at the top of my to-trade list. Unless the Spurs are planning not to make the playoffs, he needs to stay at least until the deadline.

by which time, assuming dougie's overall play shows vast improvement, his value will have increased.

[KingKev]

not too high on wesley and hope the spurs do not choose him over - say langford - langfords defense is better than wesleys defense AND offense - COMBINED...

thanks for the write - up but i was hoping to read something about the spurs efforts to acquire another point guard in the draft?

are you serious? Wesley is 20 and on a rookie deal. Langford’s cap hold alone is >10mm.

[Spurs Homer]

are you serious? Wesley is 20 and on a rookie deal. Langford’s cap hold alone is >10mm.

kid cannot shoot
cannot finish drives
cannot play defense

but CAN be used to acquire a real point guard!

[rjv]

wesley's only trade value at this point in his career is as ballast on a trade including other players or picks. alone, he has no trade value.

[montgod]

https://www.spurstalk.com/reevaluating-spurs-roster-after-victor-wembanyama/

In reassessing, IMO, I think the Spurs need to be more stubborn about handing out long-term deals. Previously, I liked the idea of extending Vassell, Jones and Collins. Now? Man, I like the idea of having cap flexibility until we get a better read on what Wembanyama is currently and the best type of players to surround him with going forward.

- I agree that Spurs will probably only extend DVassell sooner than later. No need in rushing anyone else like Jones who will probably just have to go out and shop himself and Spurs will sit back and see if they match unless they offer him a lower than market contract ahead of time.

- McDermotts, I still feel he can be used in a draft day trade for cap space challenged playoff teams in exchange for similar type of player with contracts that might not be desirable. So like Bertans w/the 10th pick, or being a conduit to a Ayton trade for Dallas; Miami with DRobinson and 18th pick, etc. In a similar vein, Graham and Birch could be used in helping w/larger contracts but probably not as easy to move.

- Free agents, I just don't see any that jump out to fit in now with what I believe the Spurs are trying to do in building this time right and for the long haul. No need in throwing money away for older prime time players when it could possibly hurt your draft outcome and give minimal success for the year. Again, unless it's a trade w/other assets in return, I just don't see any significant adds that will happen outside of their own free agents (Jones, Mamu, Julian, Barlow). After the draft, things should get clearer to some degree.

[Mr. Body]

kid cannot shoot
cannot finish drives
cannot play defense

but CAN be used to acquire a real point guard!

He sucks! But other teams will want him!

weird logic

[heyheymymy]

Aren't we giving up on Blake Wesley too soon?

It's like knowing the cake takes 20-30 mins to bake and looking in the oven at 10 mins in but blaming the cake for still being mostly batter.

Was a #25 overall ever supposed to show you everything in year one? What if they kinda were until having a serious injury grade 3 MCL tear and missing several weeks. Blake only played 37 games last year due to injury. Missed an entire half the season.

Don't sleep on Wes yet imo tbh.

[exstatic]

- I agree that Spurs will probably only extend DVassell sooner than later. No need in rushing anyone else like Jones who will probably just have to go out and shop himself and Spurs will sit back and see if they match unless they offer him a lower than market contract ahead of time.

- McDermotts, I still feel he can be used in a draft day trade for cap space challenged playoff teams in exchange for similar type of player with contracts that might not be desirable. So like Bertans w/the 10th pick, or being a conduit to a Ayton trade for Dallas; Miami with DRobinson and 18th pick, etc. In a similar vein, Graham and Birch could be used in helping w/larger contracts but probably not as easy to move.

- Free agents, I just don't see any that jump out to fit in now with what I believe the Spurs are trying to do in building this time right and for the long haul. No need in throwing money away for older prime time players when it could possibly hurt your draft outcome and give minimal success for the year. Again, unless it's a trade w/other assets in return, I just don't see any significant adds that will happen outside of their own free agents (Jones, Mamu, Julian, Barlow). After the draft, things should get clearer to some degree.

There is a window to extend a FRP after their 3rd season. It runs from the opening of FA to the day before the season starts. That’s when Devin’s extension will get done, or not. His year 4 option was picked up, so, even if an extension gets done, it kicks in in July 2024.

[montgod]

I highly doubt that he would get the supermax from the Celtics. Other teams can obviously offer the max, but not the supermax. Add to that that we have cap space to utilize as long as Wemby is on a rookie deal and with the increasing cap the contract might look a lot better later down the line. Now I don't know if you can frontload that deal, but that would make it even better. I'm not stuck on Jaylen coming here and also think he's not worth the money, I'm just looking at that type of scenario. The Spurs can bring in a guy that they overpay until Wemby is due for his extension. Another reason why I'm saying they should frontload the contracts of "the other guys"

I agree with LeBowen, no way I see the Spurs going after Brown after this year unless Vassell and MBranham show absolutely zero which I'm 98% sure won't happen. Even still, I don't think he's a fit. They'd be moreso looking at PG and PF/C types imo w/some SG exceptions (ie in no order - Claxton, Haliburton, Ball, AEdwards, Sabonis, Quickley, Maxey, Osman, Kennard, Josh Green, Monk, IStewart, McDaniels, etc)

[montgod]

Aren't we giving up on Blake Wesley too soon?

It's like knowing the cake takes 20-30 mins to bake and looking in the oven at 10 mins in but blaming the cake for still being mostly batter.

Was a #25 overall ever supposed to show you everything in year one? What if they kinda were until having a serious injury grade 3 MCL tear and missing several weeks. Blake only played 37 games last year due to injury. Missed an entire half the season.

Don't sleep on Wes yet imo tbh.

I'm looking forward to see how he's improved this summer and training camp. I think he still has until his rookie deal is up to show something just like LWalker did. Spurs won't be lacking on talent after all their draft picks so he's got to show something by late next year imo.

[Mr. Body]

Aren't we giving up on Blake Wesley too soon?

It's like knowing the cake takes 20-30 mins to bake and looking in the oven at 10 mins in but blaming the cake for still being mostly batter.

Was a #25 overall ever supposed to show you everything in year one? What if they kinda were until having a serious injury grade 3 MCL tear and missing several weeks. Blake only played 37 games last year due to injury. Missed an entire half the season.

Don't sleep on Wes yet imo tbh.

Yes.

The board is all over the place on the roster. We have to trade for Jaylen Brown. We don't need any more guards. We have to chose between Vassell and Branham right now. We have to get Scoot Henderson or else.

Blake Wesley has a few major plusses in his favor. He's very fast. He's a good and willing defender. At least so far he's a good spot-up shooter. When kicking to shooters, he locates and places the passes pretty well.

Blake Wesley has a major, major detriment. Which is he gets his shit pushed in whenever he gets to the basket. He cannot elevate over them and gets stuck in the air every time, so bad it's embarrassing. Even when he avoids shotblockers, his touch around the basket is pretty bad.

Coming out of Notre Dame, his shot selection was horrible. In part because as a freshman he was forced to do everything for the team. That's actually improved a ton.

His big swing right now is whether he can figure out what to do once he drives. The silver lining is he blasts past his coverage a lot. Question is what he does after. To me, he just needs to slow down the processing, see his options, develop a floater, a stop-and-pop J, those sorts of things. I don't think his touch is quite as bad as we saw -- to me he was overthinking his finishes and concentrating on where he was.

So... I don't think he's that far away from being an effective player. Not to say he's going to make it. Not going to say it's right away. But his issues are clearly identifiable.

Now... what his ceiling is -- that's more my thing. I don't see him as a full-time starter. I see him as a potentially good rotation guard/undersize wing. I think there's a limit to how high he can get. For a 25 pick, that ain't too bad.

[Mr. Body]

I agree with LeBowen, no way I see the Spurs going after Brown after this year unless Vassell and MBranham show absolutely zero which I'm 98% sure won't happen. Even still, I don't think he's a fit. They'd be moreso looking at PG and PF/C types imo w/some SG exceptions (ie in no order - Claxton, Haliburton, Ball, Sabonis, Quickley, Maxey, Osman, JGreen, Monk, IStewart, McDaniels, etc)

You can get scoring guards all the time. They're everywhere in every draft.

[R. DeMurre]

No interest in Jaylen Brown at all. He'll want a max contract and to be the main focus of the offense as the vet/star. His impact and efficiency aren't nearly as high as his counting stats, his assist-to-turnover is mediocre, etc... I'd target two of Derrick White, Caleb Martin, Immanuel Quickley, Herb Jones, or even Austin Reaves types at reasonable prices before I'd ever max out Brown. Brown might be the main reason that Boston is very good but not great, and the danger in overpaying him is you lower your ceiling when it comes to championship aspirations.

[montgod]

There is a window to extend a FRP after their 3rd season. It runs from the opening of FA to the day before the season starts. That’s when Devin’s extension will get done, or not. His year 4 option was picked up, so, even if an extension gets done, it kicks in in July 2024.

Thanks for the clarification. Then yeah, Vassell will most likely be the largest contract given out this year imo. I just don't have a good read on how the FO feels about Jones long term. I could easily see them extending him affordably w/thought of him being a long term backup, but if other opportunities occur during draft and/or FA, I don't see him returning.

[montgod]

No interest in Jaylen Brown at all. He'll want a max contract and to be the main focus of the offense as the vet/star. His impact and efficiency aren't nearly as high as his counting stats, his assist-to-turnover is mediocre, etc... I'd target two of Derrick White, Caleb Martin, Immanuel Quickley, Herb Jones, or even Austin Reaves types at reasonable prices before I'd ever max out Brown. Brown might be the main reason that Boston is very good but not great, and the danger in overpaying him is you lower your ceiling when it comes to championship aspirations.

- Fully agree. I think the last game showed you what happens when JBrown is by himself w/no other offensive threat on the other side. JT was on the floor but not active w/his ankle so JBrown should have taken over but it was more of the other supporting cast that tried to pick up the slack (i.e. DWhite). So I'd pass especially because of how many assets you'd have to give up to get him. Not worth it.

- DWhite unfortunately will probably be past the timeline to sign him next year. And I can't see Boston not re-signing him quickly, probably before JBrown.
- AReaves is going to be pricey and not sure he fits in w/the Spurs. Not opposed but I think he overperformed this year. Lakers will overspend for him for sure.
- CMartin, he did well when he got minutes, but has like 2 yrs left after this year I believe. We will see how he plays w/Herro returns.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Aren't we giving up on Blake Wesley too soon?

It's like knowing the cake takes 20-30 mins to bake and looking in the oven at 10 mins in but blaming the cake for still being mostly batter.

Was a #25 overall ever supposed to show you everything in year one? What if they kinda were until having a serious injury grade 3 MCL tear and missing several weeks. Blake only played 37 games last year due to injury. Missed an entire half the season.

Don't sleep on Wes yet imo tbh.

Actually, the best ball he played during the season was the 2 or 3 games right before he got hurt. His progress would have have been significantly better without the injury. The Spurs will undoubtedly win more games this year, but are still far from a contender. Playing Wesley 10-15 minutes a night isn't going to be a deal breaker. Assuming Wesley has worked his ass off this summer I will be very interested to see what he looks like in summer league and training camp to see if he's earned those 10 minutes a night.

[wildbill2u]

Johnson's basic flaw is his lack of BB IQ. It shows up in both the defensive and offensive sides to his game.

Offense: He is still subject at times to making mindless bull rushes into the lane where he lowers his head and decides to go one on one without any sense of what his teammates are doing. Granted this has improved somewhat since his rookie year, but after four seasons, some as a starter? Puhleeze. I don't think he was ever a natural shooter coming into the league but worked on his shooting with pretty good improvement. But, as was shown last season, this aspect of his game is not written in stone. He didn't improve further, but actually seemed to regress a little in his percentages. Natural shooters don't let extra attention from defenses or "carrying the load" affect them that much. His shot selection isn't what we woulld like to see. Not a good or natural assist maker because he doesn't have the court vision.

Defense: IF it takes the addition of a generational talent like Wemby to give him the opportunity to become an AVERAGE defender in the league, you must agree that there is a problem here. Partially it might be that his physical speed and athleticism isn't up to par against the competition he faces night after night. OK. So if he gets beat, we hope that someone else will do his job much of the time. But if you combine that speed and athleticism problem with low BB IQ (which I believe is where he's stuck) then you can see the problem. After all, we've seen plenty of players with some lack of speed or athleticism make up for it by using superior BB IQ. They learn the nuances of the game and study the films to learn the quirks and moves of their opponents. Sometimes a player can make a subtle adjustment in his alignment to protect against a player who can't go left. Other times you give a player who can't hit the three some extra room. Knowing when to rotate on defense to help out. Positioning for rebounds. The nuances are endless and players should be able to make those fine tuning adjustments after 4 years in the league. I don't see that happening with KJ. He is what he is. Ceiling. Full stop.

He's already at the point where other players already are at his heels in terms of their potential to take away his starting job as the lineups are adjusted because of the addition of Wemby. If I were a coach, I would never trust the idea of removing a starter to a lesser role on the bench. Few players can accept that demotion psychologically and thrive. This is a hard business. We let Derrick White go because he no longer fit our needs. Time to do the same for KJ.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Johnson's basic flaw is his lack of BB IQ. It shows up in both the defensive and offensive sides to his game.

Offense: He is still subject at times to making mindless bull rushes into the lane where he lowers his head and decides to go one on one without any sense of what his teammates are doing. Granted this has improved somewhat since his rookie year, but after four seasons, some as a starter? Puhleeze. I don't think he was ever a natural shooter coming into the league but worked on his shooting with pretty good improvement. But, as was shown last season, this aspect of his game is not written in stone. He didn't improve further, but actually seemed to regress a little in his percentages. Natural shooters don't let extra attention from defenses or "carrying the load" affect them that much. His shot selection isn't what we woulld like to see. Not a good or natural assist maker because he doesn't have the court vision.

Defense: IF it takes the addition of a generational talent like Wemby to give him the opportunity to become an AVERAGE defender in the league, you must agree that there is a problem here. Partially it might be that his physical speed and athleticism isn't up to par against the competition he faces night after night. OK. So if he gets beat, we hope that someone else will do his job much of the time. But if you combine that speed and athleticism problem with low BB IQ (which I believe is where he's stuck) then you can see the problem. After all, we've seen plenty of players with some lack of speed or athleticism make up for it by using superior BB IQ. They learn the nuances of the game and study the films to learn the quirks and moves of their opponents. Sometimes a player can make a subtle adjustment in his alignment to protect against a player who can't go left. Other times you give a player who can't hit the three some extra room. Knowing when to rotate on defense to help out. Positioning for rebounds. The nuances are endless and players should be able to make those fine tuning adjustments after 4 years in the league. I don't see that happening with KJ. He is what he is. Ceiling. Full stop.

He's already at the point where other players already are at his heels in terms of their potential to take away his starting job as the lineups are adjusted because of the addition of Wemby. If I were a coach, I would never trust the idea of removing a starter to a lesser role on the bench. Few players can accept that demotion psychologically and thrive. This is a hard business. We let Derrick White go because he no longer fit our needs. Time to do the same for KJ.

Dead on. I think the only thing that stops this from happening is the "good guy" image the Spurs work so hard to cultivate. I believe it comes down to what's best for long term winning in the front office's minds: being considered a player-first organization that goes out of it's way to respect the wishes of players and the hope that this will accrue good will that will benefit the team or basing personnel decisions on purely what puts the best team on the court. I think most of us would prefer the latter; however, I don't think the Spurs are willing to be seen as potentially jerking around a player that signed what's considered a team-friendly deal and trading the face-of-the-franchise 2 years in a row.

[cool cat]

What about using KJ at the James Harden OKC spot and bring him off the bench?

[Spurs Homer]

He sucks! But other teams will want him!

weird logic

depends who you package him with and contracts/$$$/years left etc

[spurraider21]

i'd do what i can to extend zollins now. if he just bets on himself staying healthy and playing out this year along wemby, he'd probably get quite the haul in the market, though.

collins/vassell are talented enough that as long as the contract isn't outrageous (which is much less likely to happen in the context of getting an extension done now), even if we decide they arent fits, they probably wouldnt be that hard to move. still have to remember that players/contracts are assets. you dont just throw your old car away when you buy a new one. you sell it. trade it in, etc.

[rankingtear]

Listened to a pod talking about Wemby, first year the basketball stuff does not matter priority 1 is health 2 is locker room. Make sure the center depth is there and stock your locker room with good influence. Get rid of all LA born players.

[Russ]

Thanks for the article, timvp. You got all the Spurs fans to come to the square.

As for the future, to paraphrase Yogi Berra, it’s not getting late early.

Victor Wembanyama will be the obvious centerpiece but no one knows exactly what a team built around prime-time VW will look like yet.

When Pop first saw Manu Ginobili he knew he had something, but he wasn’t quite sure what. Manu was so unorthodox (and talented). Pop ended up breaking some of his rules coaching Manu that he never thought he would break.

Cut to today -- Victor Wembanyama is the biggest Manu Ginobili that Pop has ever encountered in his coaching life. Very, very unorthodox (and even more talented).

Pop always says you can’t skip steps. Step #1 here is to find out exactly what VW is in the NBA and how to best create a team around him. Pop has to visualize that before anything else happens.

That’s why it’s highly unlikely that the Spurs try to get a big-name veteran FA to throw into the mix right now (or even try to move up in the draft for a big-name draft pick).

That would be skipping steps and trying to force things prematurely.

As far as the draft, the best bet looks like the Spurs will wait for that big-name prospect they like to fall to #33 or, if not, take a shot at a projected 2d round player that they like (probably for upside potential). Like most of us, I have a candidate(s) for the latter scenario.

We’ll know the team has finally arrived when nice (losing) Pop is replaced with impatient, gruff (winning) Pop and someone asks a question about why Wemby did something unbelievable and Pop just glares and replies “Because he’s Victor Wenbanyama.”

[jesterbobman]

I wouldn't give Vassell the max, but anywhere up to the Mikal Bridges 4 yr 100m contract is pretty close to fine. While he wasn't the Iron man than Mikal has been, his role is similar as a 3/D wing with some off the bounce creation.
How much of the drop down / injury rest last year is chronic vs strategic resting / not giving a shit in a tanking year is a valid question, but it's a reason to discount vs Bridges. And, being a year later / closer to the new TV deal is a valid reason to increase - so about the same seems fair. The Spurs will know how much was rest vs Chronic injury, so if they resign him, they'll believe it's a good idea.

After the presumed current starters, I don't think we should be attached to anyone - It'd be good to have a solid PG option, e.g Tre Jones mainly running the bench units to get young guys in position, with a more egalitarian / multiple initiators ball dominance set up in the starting lineup (e.g, Vassell Keldon Sochan Wemby Zach) and set up as a group of huge mofos who can offer help defence. I wouldn't lock in Tre too long term, as there are already shooting questions on the roster and you have to prioritise shooting with role players if your key guys aren't great. Something like a 2 year 20m deal would be fine, and you can move on if Blake or Malaki look promising.

I'd be keeping Blake and Malaki (locked in as rookies, little trade value), letting KBD go (easy to envision him as a ninth man offering big wing depth to a lot of contenders), with Doug, Devonte and Champagnie as shooting depth, given contracts (Guaranteed, guaranteed, presumably tiny).

That gives us 11. That covers smalls with a bunch of weak/ developing guard options and shooting coming off the books after this year. A big upgrade (Lopez as the dream), or soaking up questionable contracts (Duncan Robinson, Joe Harris etc) makes sense to reach the salary floor for the next couple of years. Mamu is probably the most worthwhile to keep of the other bigs as a floor spacer, but I'm not too attached.
I wouldn't be too attached to Romeo (fine defender, but limited especially as a shooter), Dieng (moving into the Haslem role but could be a coach), Birch (probably not playing), or Dom Barlow (unless on another two way).

Long term, I'd be looking for an advantage creating guard of some point. While Wemby should draw a lot of focus, some other method of breaking down defences as a primary, either alongside Wemby or in his bench minutes feels like the biggest long term team need, other than a shit ton of shooting. I imagine that's the type of player they're looking for if they move back into the lottery this year (praying that Amen is the answer), or you can look to add that eventually if the cost is too high in this draft.

[BackHome]

Listened to a pod talking about Wemby, first year the basketball stuff does not matter priority 1 is health 2 is locker room. Make sure the center depth is there and stock your locker room with good influence. Get rid of all LA born players.

This + 1000000000000

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1sqVzzxEZU

damn :lol 10 missed dunks in a row?

[Big Empty]

This cat over at utility sports has some great takes on the Spurs offseason. https://youtu.be/sPEseaOiIZE

[scott]

Aren't we giving up on Blake Wesley too soon?

It's like knowing the cake takes 20-30 mins to bake and looking in the oven at 10 mins in but blaming the cake for still being mostly batter.

Was a #25 overall ever supposed to show you everything in year one? What if they kinda were until having a serious injury grade 3 MCL tear and missing several weeks. Blake only played 37 games last year due to injury. Missed an entire half the season.

Don't sleep on Wes yet imo tbh.

While I'm in the "Blake Sucks" camp, I agree 100% with this. Still plenty of time for him to prove a dusty ol' hater like me wrong.

[spurraider21]

i get that wemby adds some urgency but im not expecting him to come in and immediately be some all-nba type player that immediately opens some championship window. and even if there was some urgency... i dont think the last roster spot down to the 15th person needs to be some crusty "win now" vet. we should at least wait until devonte graham is out of town before making a call on wesley. if graham has a meh season and its a foregone conclusion that he's going to be waived, then yeah, id want to know if we can reasonably expect wesley to at least be a rotation pg. and if graham has his best season in years to the point where the spurs would want to keep him at 12.5 mil, then theres the luxury of wesley having an additional year to prove himself

[timvp]

Listened to a pod talking about Wemby, first year the basketball stuff does not matter priority 1 is health 2 is locker room. Make sure the center depth is there and stock your locker room with good influence. Get rid of all LA born players.

Yeah prioritizing locker room makes sense. If that is the absolute priority, then the Spurs should bring back Jones, Dieng and Bates-Diop. Jones and Dieng specifically are probably the two most important "locker room guys" on the team -- with maybe Keldon up there with them. Bates-Diop is probably top five too.

It's going to be a difficult balancing act piecing together Wemby's rookie roster.

[timvp]

Thanks for the article, timvp. You got all the Spurs fans to come to the square.

As for the future, to paraphrase Yogi Berra, it’s not getting late early.

Victor Wembanyama will be the obvious centerpiece but no one knows exactly what a team built around prime-time VW will look like yet.

When Pop first saw Manu Ginobili he knew he had something, but he wasn’t quite sure what. Manu was so unorthodox (and talented). Pop ended up breaking some of his rules coaching Manu that he never thought he would break.

Cut to today -- Victor Wembanyama is the biggest Manu Ginobili that Pop has ever encountered in his coaching life. Very, very unorthodox (and even more talented).

Pop always says you can’t skip steps. Step #1 here is to find out exactly what VW is in the NBA and how to best create a team around him. Pop has to visualize that before anything else happens.

That’s why it’s highly unlikely that the Spurs try to get a big-name veteran FA to throw into the mix right now (or even try to move up in the draft for a big-name draft pick).

That would be skipping steps and trying to force things prematurely.

Great post, Russ.

That's basically where I end up when thinking about what should come next. I've watched just about all of Wemby's tape ... and I still don't know what he'll be in the NBA :lol

He's such a unique prospect that I think you have to let him play out his first season before you start making any assumptions on what he is or what he isn't. And that's part of the reason why I'm not unsure about how much to pay Vassell, Jones, Collins, etc. How do you use cap space before understanding what you have in Wemby? I mean, I really like Vassell -- I think he has it in him to be a championship level piece to a puzzle. Collins looked damn good to end the year. Jones could be the best backup point guard in the NBA within a couple years. But until the Spurs understand what Wemby is, everything else has to be in some sort of holding pattern, right?

[BacktoBasics]

The whole idea that we’d dump character guys like Keldon and Vassell for swings at potential superstars is dumb for a few reasons.

1. It’s high risk and low reward. Especially when we have proven production on the roster that provide a nice soft landing for Wemby with high character players and a cohesive locker room.

2. The last thing we want with the new CBA are guys who might read as slightly better based on draft position, moderate production and not proven productivity like a bargain player such as Keldon. We’ll end up in cap hell.

3. With a high character affordable roster over the next two years we’re better off filling the gaps with a more proven player that will complement the roster than (see number 2) prospect that will end up over paying to keep on the roster.

We need to keep an eye on OKC. They’ve got a handful of guys that will test their cap space and play out a scenario where having a ton of early draft pics that produce at an above average level, yet below superstar, might end up blowing a roster up.

High value contracts like Keldons will be more valuable 2 years from now than they are as trade deals.

[jesterbobman]

Great post, Russ (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=400).

That's basically where I end up when thinking about what should come next. I've watched just about all of Wemby's tape ... and I still don't know what he'll be in the NBA :lol

He's such a unique prospect that I think you have to let him play out his first season before you start making any assumptions on what he is or what he isn't. And that's part of the reason why I'm not unsure about how much to pay Vassell, Jones, Collins, etc. How do you use cap space before understanding what you have in Wemby? I mean, I really like Vassell -- I think he has it in him to be a championship level piece to a puzzle. Collins looked damn good to end the year. Jones could be the best backup point guard in the NBA within a couple years. But until the Spurs understand what Wemby is, everything else has to be in some sort of holding pattern, right?

Wemby will be weird, unorthodox, and strange. We don't know the perfect type of pieces to surround him with...Is there any type of player Wemby could become where Vassell doesn't work? Long Giannis / Durant hybrid as a big primary with touch? Anthony Davis with a bit more self creation? Hits the 1% floor and he's like Porzingis?

I get being hesitant on Jones given his shooting, and Collins if it'd take a huge amount to keep him (doubt that happens, I think he's a reasonable back up 5 and a bit overtaxed as a top end starter) but I don't see any type of player that wouldn't work with Vassell as a complementary piece (even if he's not quite a second star on a title team).

[R. DeMurre]

- Fully agree. I think the last game showed you what happens when JBrown is by himself w/no other offensive threat on the other side. JT was on the floor but not active w/his ankle so JBrown should have taken over but it was more of the other supporting cast that tried to pick up the slack (i.e. DWhite). So I'd pass especially because of how many assets you'd have to give up to get him. Not worth it.

- DWhite unfortunately will probably be past the timeline to sign him next year. And I can't see Boston not re-signing him quickly, probably before JBrown.
- AReaves is going to be pricey and not sure he fits in w/the Spurs. Not opposed but I think he overperformed this year. Lakers will overspend for him for sure.
- CMartin, he did well when he got minutes, but has like 2 yrs left after this year I believe. We will see how he plays w/Herro returns.


Right, right-- I didn't mean getting those specific players. I meant looking for those types-- effective but without the gaudy stats of a Jaylen Brown. I should've explained it better. Basically, I'd prefer two effective role players with net positive impact for $35mil combined over JB for $35mil. I do love Quickley though, and would definitely be on board for that as a PG experiment.

[gilmor2002]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1sqVzzxEZU

damn :lol 10 missed dunks in a row?

the guy he played with is an asshole..

[mo7888]

Great post, Russ.

That's basically where I end up when thinking about what should come next. I've watched just about all of Wemby's tape ... and I still don't know what he'll be in the NBA :lol

He's such a unique prospect that I think you have to let him play out his first season before you start making any assumptions on what he is or what he isn't. And that's part of the reason why I'm not unsure about how much to pay Vassell, Jones, Collins, etc. How do you use cap space before understanding what you have in Wemby? I mean, I really like Vassell -- I think he has it in him to be a championship level piece to a puzzle. Collins looked damn good to end the year. Jones could be the best backup point guard in the NBA within a couple years. But until the Spurs understand what Wemby is, everything else has to be in some sort of holding pattern, right?

Yes and no... Yes there's a holding pattern of sorts until the team knows how to properly build around VW, but no you don't hold off on signing Vassell, Tre, etc because the league knows what those guys are. Even if they end up not fitting and need to go you still have the asset at a reasonable number that can be moved for pieces that do fit. Now if either demands something stupid then of course we wait, but if they can be resigned/extended at reasonable numbers you don't hesitate.

[RC_Drunkford]

Great post, Russ (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=400).

That's basically where I end up when thinking about what should come next. I've watched just about all of Wemby's tape ... and I still don't know what he'll be in the NBA :lol

He's such a unique prospect that I think you have to let him play out his first season before you start making any assumptions on what he is or what he isn't. And that's part of the reason why I'm not unsure about how much to pay Vassell, Jones, Collins, etc. How do you use cap space before understanding what you have in Wemby? I mean, I really like Vassell -- I think he has it in him to be a championship level piece to a puzzle. Collins looked damn good to end the year. Jones could be the best backup point guard in the NBA within a couple years. But until the Spurs understand what Wemby is, everything else has to be in some sort of holding pattern, right?

That doesn't make no sense. It's somewhat clear what Wembanyama is if you watch his tapes. Also a 3-and-D wing who's able to create his own shot will always be a fit no matter what. A mobile stretch 5 big will at least be a great back up, especially when you look at a team like the Nuggets not even having that type of player off the bench. Same with one of the best back up PGs in the league. You lock all of them up and if you need something else you trade them. Simple.

[tmtcsc]

https://www.spurstalk.com/reevaluating-spurs-roster-after-victor-wembanyama/

In reassessing, IMO, I think the Spurs need to be more stubborn about handing out long-term deals. Previously, I liked the idea of extending Vassell, Jones and Collins. Now? Man, I like the idea of having cap flexibility until we get a better read on what Wembanyama is currently and the best type of players to surround him with going forward.

Yeah, I don't think you mess around with Vassell. You pay the guy & hope for the best.

[Mugen]

Outside of injury risk (so maybe don't lock up Zollins for 3+ years), guys like Tre/Devin/Zollins can easily be moved if needed in the next 2-3 years.

[Extra Stout]

That doesn't make no sense. It's somewhat clear what Wembanyama is if you watch his tapes.
I’m a basketball dummy, but for example, if the Spurs pair Wemby with a point guard who can shoot, how do you stop the pick-and-roll? Wemby is a vacuum around the rim, he moves quickly and agilely without the ball, he sets pretty good screens and takes up a lot of room, and if you collapse in the lane to try to stop the p-n-r then he is a rangy shooter. If you switch, he’s got a foot height advantage.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m a basketball dummy, but for example, if the Spurs pair Wemby with a point guard who can shoot, how do you stop the pick-and-roll? Wemby is a vacuum around the rim, he moves quickly and agilely without the ball, he sets pretty good screens and takes up a lot of room, and if you collapse in the lane to try to stop the p-n-r then he is a rangy shooter. If you switch, he’s got a foot height advantage.

That’s exactly why I‘m saying we need a star PG. Someone who can shoot and has speed to blow by defenders. The pick & roll combination would be unstoppable

[Mr. Body]

I’m a basketball dummy, but for example, if the Spurs pair Wemby with a point guard who can shoot, how do you stop the pick-and-roll? Wemby is a vacuum around the rim, he moves quickly and agilely without the ball, he sets pretty good screens and takes up a lot of room, and if you collapse in the lane to try to stop the p-n-r then he is a rangy shooter. If you switch, he’s got a foot height advantage.

Technically doesn't have to be a PG, just a player with good handles who can take advantage if the defense hedges hard on the shot. But, yes, if you have a dual threat, a Harden type, then it comes close to unstoppable.

Wembanyama doesn't have to necessarily be the roll guy, or the lob threat can be someone else, Sochan, for example, when the defense has to hedge an extra guy on the pick and roll.

[KobesAchilles]

Kyrie anyone?

also on a more serious note, now that the Warriors are breaking up, we should go after Klay

[lmbebo]

Kyrie anyone?

also on a more serious note, now that the Warriors are breaking up, we should go after Klay

Who said Warriors breaking up?

[Ice009]

Spurs are better than they look, people are tainted by the tank season but that was deliberate losing efforts and even still look at the Nuggets game late season. NBA Finals future DEN was full strength and played hard and Spurs hung with the big dogs. I think people are underestimating the pre existing core a lot and getting dazzle eyes for a big splashy move but maybe we already got our guys barring some PG and C depth optimization.


I remember the Spurs beating Denver last time they played them. I think Jokic had a monster game 37, 11, 11 and Murray had something like 20+ as well, but we still won. I wasn't able to watch the game, but was pleasantly surprised seeing that we won against them. Not sure how hard Denver played that game, but I remember being very encourage with the win thinking the Spurs are pretty good when close to full strength.



- Fully agree. I think the last game showed you what happens when JBrown is by himself w/no other offensive threat on the other side. JT was on the floor but not active w/his ankle so JBrown should have taken over but it was more of the other supporting cast that tried to pick up the slack (i.e. DWhite). So I'd pass especially because of how many assets you'd have to give up to get him. Not worth it.

- DWhite unfortunately will probably be past the timeline to sign him next year. And I can't see Boston not re-signing him quickly, probably before JBrown.
- AReaves is going to be pricey and not sure he fits in w/the Spurs. Not opposed but I think he overperformed this year. Lakers will overspend for him for sure.
- CMartin, he did well when he got minutes, but has like 2 yrs left after this year I believe. We will see how he plays w/Herro returns.

I agree about DWhite (I'd really like DWhite back, though, but I think you're right, he doesn't fit the timeline) and AReaves. I think Reaves may have overperformed.

I'd love to get Caleb Martin, though. I don't know if I am remembering right, but I thought during game 7, Reggie Miller kept saying "cha-ching" every time he made a bucket then saying that he's going to get a bag of money, so I assumed he was a free agent, or am I remembering wrong? Was Reggie talking about someone else such as Gabe Vincent?

As for the roster construction, this is a very hard thing to determine this early. It really might be worth giving it a season to see how it goes, but also getting the right players earlier on could make a big difference to the development of Victor and the team. I am really not sure what direction to go in yet.

[montgod]

I remember the Spurs beating Denver last time they played them. I think Jokic had a monster game 37, 11, 11 and Murray had something like 20+ as well, but we still won. I wasn't able to watch the game, but was pleasantly surprised seeing that we won against them. Not sure how hard Denver played that game, but I remember being very encourage with the win thinking the Spurs are pretty good when close to full strength.




I agree about DWhite (I'd really like DWhite back, though, but I think you're right, he doesn't fit the timeline) and AReaves. I think Reaves may have overperformed.

I'd love to get Caleb Martin, though. I don't know if I am remembering right, but I thought during game 7, Reggie Miller kept saying "cha-ching" every time he made a bucket then saying that he's going to get a bag of money, so I assumed he was a free agent, or am I remembering wrong? Was Reggie talking about someone else such as Gabe Vincent?

As for the roster construction, this is a very hard thing to determine this early. It really might be worth it giving it a season to see how it goes, but also getting the right players earlier on could make a big difference to the development of Victor and the team. I am really not sure what direction to go in yet.

No I think Miller was just clueless on CMartin's contract details. He's definitely under contract though for a few more years, just signed it last year.

[BackHome]

Yeah Chuck was saying he just made himself a ton of money and should have beaten Butler for MVP of series. The only issue is he is 27 years old I believe so not in the rebuilding range.

[Leetonidas]

Kyrie anyone?

also on a more serious note, now that the Warriors are breaking up, we should go after Klay

Why tf would we want that cancerous turd on our team?

As far as Klay goes - too old and too expensive. We don't need to overpay geezers

[Russ]

Kyrie anyone?

also on a more serious note, now that the Warriors are breaking up, we should go after Klay

Branham may end up being a Klay-type player at way less cost and way more future (hell, even that Champagnie guy may be cheap Klay).

[spurraider21]

the spurs dont really have to worry about money until wemby's 2nd contract. we can overpay a guy like Reaves for 4 years, and none of his money will overlap with victor's real money (assuming he pans out as expected)

our big contract right now is keldon and his deal is frontloaded. the cap is going to continue to steadily rise as well, and its not like we're giving out max deals that are pinned to the cap

[EricB]

The new CBA will kill any thoughts on overpaying role bench players like Reaves

[spurraider21]

The new CBA will kill any thoughts on overpaying role bench players like Reaves
yes, for teams that are approaching the tax line and already have at least 2 guys maxed

[buttsR4rebounding]

The new CBA will kill any thoughts on overpaying role bench players like Reaves

The max the Lakers can pay Reaves is 4yrs $50 million. If he is getting overpaid then it is likely with someone else.

[KobesAchilles]

Branham may end up being a Klay-type player at way less cost and way more future (hell, even that Champagnie guy may be cheap Klay).
Those people don’t have the locker room experience the way Klay does. We need to surround Wemby with a winner and a pro. Heck all of our young talent need that. We don’t have one on our roster. Can Branham bring the same production as Klay? I doubt it but let’s say that he does, Branham doesn’t bring nearly the same value as Klay. You can’t fake championship pedigree. For the older posters, it’s like the value Mario Ellie brought to the team. I think Klay brings that same toughness, same professionalism, and same moment is never too big attitude.

Also who give a flip if we overpay for a vet when we have money to spare for the foreseeable future.

[Russ]

Those people don’t have the locker room experience the way Klay does. We need to surround Wemby with a winner and a pro. Heck all of our young talent need that. We don’t have one on our roster. Can Branham bring the same production as Klay? I doubt it but let’s say that he does, Branham doesn’t bring nearly the same value as Klay. You can’t fake championship pedigree. For the older posters, it’s like the value Mario Ellie brought to the team. I think Klay brings that same toughness, same professionalism, and same moment is never too big attitude.

Also who give a flip if we overpay for a vet when we have money to spare for the foreseeable future.

I'd rather see a bunch of young guys grow up and become friends and become winners together (kinda like Klay, himself, did).

[couchman]

Core players to build around who are untouchable right now:
-Wemby
-Sochan

Could be a solid contributor on a playoff team:
- Keldon Johnson

Could be solid contributors IF THEY STAY HEALTHY:
- Vassell
- Collins

Promising Young Prospect:
- Malakai Branham - We can easily see what he might become (Rip Hamilton anyone?)

Might stay awhile because we desperately need PG:
- Tre Jones

Homerun swing:
- Wesley - Tick Tock, show something soon or you'll be drafted over

Everyone Else:
Everyone else is only worth discussing in the short term as good pieces to help develop Wemby or as trade pieces

[mo7888]

Core players to build around who are untouchable right now:
-Wemby
-Sochan

Could be a solid contributor on a playoff team:
- Keldon Johnson

Could be solid contributors IF THEY STAY HEALTHY:
- Vassell
- Collins

Promising Young Prospect:
- Malakai Branham - We can easily see what he might become (Rip Hamilton anyone?)

Might stay awhile because we desperately need PG:
- Tre Jones

Homerun swing:
- Wesley - Tick Tock, show something soon or you'll be drafted over

Everyone Else:
Everyone else is only worth discussing in the short term as good pieces to help develop Wemby or as trade pieces

I think Wembanyama is the only untouchable..

[DAF86]

Core players to build around who are untouchable right now:
-Wemby
-Sochan

Could be a solid contributor on a playoff team:
- Keldon Johnson

Could be solid contributors IF THEY STAY HEALTHY:
- Vassell
- Collins

Promising Young Prospect:
- Malakai Branham - We can easily see what he might become (Rip Hamilton anyone?)

Might stay awhile because we desperately need PG:
- Tre Jones

Homerun swing:
- Wesley - Tick Tock, show something soon or you'll be drafted over

Everyone Else:
Everyone else is only worth discussing in the short term as good pieces to help develop Wemby or as trade pieces

Wemby

Vassell
Sochan

Keldon

The rest

That's my list.

Vassell, if healthy, is a fit with anyone. Good defender, good 3pt shooter, can create a bit too.

Sochan is a great fit on defense, and his mobility and playmaking on offense are great tools too, the only question mark would be his shooting.

Keldon, I don't know, just doesn't seem to have the intangibles.

[SpursBills]

Maybe in a few years someone like that will be available and looking to for a better situation. We'd be looking at a disgruntled star primary initiator, young enough to be in Wemby's timeline, on a poorly managed franchise. Maybe even Slovenian.


Technically doesn't have to be a PG, just a player with good handles who can take advantage if the defense hedges hard on the shot. But, yes, if you have a dual threat, a Harden type, then it comes close to unstoppable.

Wembanyama doesn't have to necessarily be the roll guy, or the lob threat can be someone else, Sochan, for example, when the defense has to hedge an extra guy on the pick and roll.

[R. DeMurre]

I'm not getting the concept that Wemby would be unstoppable in the pick and roll, so therefore we necessarily need a PG who can shoot. At 7'5", he's going to create a mismatch with literally any and every switch, which means that same idea works with the defenders of a 6'6" SG, a 6'8" SF, or even a 6'9" small ball center. I'd rather have him operate that P&R with a taller wing with some handles, which would demand the attention of two taller defenders, leaving the rest of the floor to be defended by three defenders, two of whom would be the opposing PG + SG, i.e., the two shortest guys on the court. This opens up the offense for everybody. All analogies are out the window when Jordan's involved, but I always thought people didn't credit the Bulls enough for starting two 6'6" SGs in their best backcourt, pairing Ron Harper with MJ, then bringing a more traditional PG off the bench. They started every game with a big size advantage in their backcourt. The last thing I want the Spurs to do (especially defensively) is follow the mistakes of Utah with Gobert, who seemed to think that having him as the anchor back in the paint meant you could get away with putting two or three undersized players in front of him. I'd much prefer they take VW's huge size advantage at whatever position he's at and add to it.

[TD 21]

The last thing I want the Spurs to do (especially defensively) is follow the mistakes of Utah with Gobert, who seemed to think that having him as the anchor back in the paint meant you could get away with putting two or three undersized players in front of him. I'd much prefer they take VW's huge size advantage at whatever position he's at and add to it.

People make it sound like it's just easy to build a team of two-way players with positional size.

Gobert and Mitchell unexpectedly and quickly emerged as stars, limiting their draft capital and financial flexibility. As the team around them that skewed big and defensive ran into a hard ceiling, they went the opposite direction not because they were dumb, but because it was the best they could do to attempt to address their needs.

[R. DeMurre]

People make it sound like it's just easy to build a team of two-way players with positional size.

Gobert and Mitchell unexpectedly and quickly emerged as stars, limiting their draft capital and financial flexibility. As the team around them that skewed big and defensive ran into a hard ceiling, they went the opposite direction not because they were dumb, but because it was the best they could do to attempt to address their needs.


I don't think it's easy at all. 29 out of 30 teams don't win a championship every season. But when you sign on with (what I view as) players that limit the ceiling, it only makes it that much harder, and for me two of those archetypes are definitely an undersized SG or a high usage rate smallish PG who isn't a great 3pt shooter.

[spurs10]

This was a good read and I understand the FO might be cautious about handing out contracts. Vassell seems like a keeper. I guess it will be interesting to see who wins out as the starting PG. Tre might not be a good enough scorer for a contending team I understand. Seems like a strong back-up though.

[tbdog]

Those people don’t have the locker room experience the way Klay does. We need to surround Wemby with a winner and a pro. Heck all of our young talent need that. We don’t have one on our roster. Can Branham bring the same production as Klay? I doubt it but let’s say that he does, Branham doesn’t bring nearly the same value as Klay. You can’t fake championship pedigree. For the older posters, it’s like the value Mario Ellie brought to the team. I think Klay brings that same toughness, same professionalism, and same moment is never too big attitude.

Also who give a flip if we overpay for a vet when we have money to spare for the foreseeable future.

This is why a few are high on Brook Lopez, who not only is a good fit for Wemby but has that locker room presence. Vucevic is another option for a much cheaper price.

[Obstructed_View]

Those people don’t have the locker room experience the way Klay does. We need to surround Wemby with a winner and a pro. Heck all of our young talent need that. We don’t have one on our roster. Can Branham bring the same production as Klay? I doubt it but let’s say that he does, Branham doesn’t bring nearly the same value as Klay. You can’t fake championship pedigree. For the older posters, it’s like the value Mario Ellie brought to the team. I think Klay brings that same toughness, same professionalism, and same moment is never too big attitude.

Also who give a flip if we overpay for a vet when we have money to spare for the foreseeable future.

Agree on all points. Mario Elie was the best signing the Spurs ever made, IMO. Jerome Kersey and Will Perdue also had deep playoff experience. Overpaying for a vet isn't a big deal at all. The biggest problem the Spurs have right now is they have SO MANY young guys who look promising. Their only option may be to sign upgrades to existing vets and jettison them.

I think Malaki is going to be special, but if you want to win, you need vets who have done it to teach the young guys. Whether their skillset overlaps is irrelevant.

[JR3]

I’m okay with blowing up the team to get a mix of higher potential guys and solid vets that know their role around Wemby. Everyone but Sochan should be on the trading block.

[Chinook]

Those people don’t have the locker room experience the way Klay does. We need to surround Wemby with a winner and a pro. Heck all of our young talent need that. We don’t have one on our roster. Can Branham bring the same production as Klay? I doubt it but let’s say that he does, Branham doesn’t bring nearly the same value as Klay. You can’t fake championship pedigree. For the older posters, it’s like the value Mario Ellie brought to the team. I think Klay brings that same toughness, same professionalism, and same moment is never too big attitude.

Also who give a flip if we overpay for a vet when we have money to spare for the foreseeable future.

I don't like Klay that much because he would just add another player to the middle positions, but it's annoying that so many people don't see the value in having (good) players at all stages of their careers. Do you know when Tim became the oldest player on the Spurs? When Tim was a 14-year vet in the 2011-2012 season. Until 2007-2008, Duncan wasn't even in the top half of players by age. Dude wasn't within 10 years of the oldest player on the team until 2004-2005. That was his eighth season in the league. This belief that the Spurs should avoid guys who "can't grow with" Wemby is so off base that it's ahistoric to basically any GOAT candidate's rise. Actual Klay because of his injury history and massive contract wouldn't be a good choice. But someone with that kind of experience but more gravitas would do really well on a team full of guys who've never won anything (Keldon's gold doesn't count in this context). I wonder if there are any vets overseas who could help.

[Chinook]

I wonder if the Spurs could make a run at Micic. OKC should still have his rights, and the Spurs are one of the few teams that could both spend whatever Micic needs on a buyout while also being in a position that might be interesting to him. They don't have a clear starting PG but do have intriguing teammates. Spurs have a number of tradeable picks as well. Dude's the best player in Europe and is in his prime. Would be a nice "zag" move.

[Chinook]

Not to spam, but they should be able to sign Micic, sign Lopez and still re-sign Jones.

Micic, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Graham
Johnson, McDermott, Champangie
Wembanyama, Sochan, Mamukelashvili
Lopez, Collins, Bassey

TW: Barlow, 45, 50

This is assuming they trade 33 and other non-firsts to the Thunder for Micic's rights and 50.

If Jones walks, move Graham to backup PG, slide Champ to SG and re-up Keita. I actually really like the balance of that roster, assuming Sochan is okay being a sixth man. I don't know that it's a contender, even with a couple of years of development. But it's a real team that Wemby can develop on but that also has a fair bit of flexibility going forward.

[jesterbobman]

That's a fun Zag on Micic. I've been thinking Jevon Carter / Brook would be a great two man free agency class, though Micic works as the PG there as well.

If we can't get Lopez and one of those guys, I'd also be open to some kind of overpaid Vet leader deal to help another team save a ton of tax money.
E.g.,
Would the Heat move on from Kyle Lowry (as they'll be paying Vincent and Strus more after this season, and probably Caleb Martin in 2024) if they decide the $$ is too much, and send us #18 (post draft, so whoever they pick) as payment for absorbing his $30m. Could adjust that to a future asset (though Miami is a bit barren so that's hard) if they love whoever they took and we're not fans.
Could we take on Batum or Covington from the Clippers for #30 (maybe trading 44 if #30 is too much)?

[RC_Drunkford]

I wonder if the Spurs could make a run at Micic. OKC should still have his rights, and the Spurs are one of the few teams that could both spend whatever Micic needs on a buyout while also being in a position that might be interesting to him. They don't have a clear starting PG but do have intriguing teammates. Spurs have a number of tradeable picks as well. Dude's the best player in Europe and is in his prime. Would be a nice "zag" move.

I said that a couple of weeks ago cause I remembered the rumors about the Spurs being interested back in the day. But depends on if OKC gives up his rights

[DAF86]

I wonder if the Spurs could make a run at Micic. OKC should still have his rights, and the Spurs are one of the few teams that could both spend whatever Micic needs on a buyout while also being in a position that might be interesting to him. They don't have a clear starting PG but do have intriguing teammates. Spurs have a number of tradeable picks as well. Dude's the best player in Europe and is in his prime. Would be a nice "zag" move.

I like the Micic idea, but I fail to see why OKC would just give his rights away to the Spurs.

Edit: just checked, 29 years old. I thought he was younger. Still interested, but wouldn't give too much to get him.

[Chinook]

I like the Micic idea, but I fail to see why OKC would just give his rights away to the Spurs.

Edit: just checked, 29 years old. I thought he was younger. Still interested, but wouldn't give too much to get him.

If OKC is going to use his rights, it's horrible form to keep him from signing elsewhere. That he's 29 is part of the reason why he'd be available. The Spurs can use a vet hand, especially one with playoff experience who's still in his prime. He's not an ancient player who'd only be around for a couple of years, either. He should be good for another contract after this one. I worry about if he can translate to the NBA, but he's worth a decent pick trade and a big deal to bring him over as opposed to spending a bunch more on an older player or hoping that a journeyman becomes a strong starter just because he's 23 or whatever.

[MultiTroll]

annoying that so many people don't see the value in having (good) players at all stages of their careers. Do you know when Tim became the oldest player on the Spurs? When Tim was a 14-year vet in the 2011-2012 season. Until 2007-2008, Duncan wasn't even in the top half of players by age. Dude wasn't within 10 years of the oldest player on the team until 2004-2005. That was his eighth season in the league. This belief that the Spurs should avoid guys who "can't grow with" Wemby is so off base that it's ahistoric to basically any GOAT candidate's rise.
Agree 100.
Too bad Lebrons contract with the Flamers is thru next season with player option not til 24-25.
If, repeat if his son is showing signs of being anywhere near Lebron Jr potential, i would welcome vet minimum Lebron with his son open heartedly.
We'll see what summer of 24 brings.

Concur on Klanus. Also don't want his attitude coming anywhere near my team. Insufferable phaggot along with that entire core. And now being passed on to Poole, altho i believe their run is over.

[JPB]

If OKC is going to use his rights, it's horrible form to keep him from signing elsewhere. That he's 29 is part of the reason why he'd be available. The Spurs can use a vet hand, especially one with playoff experience who's still in his prime. He's not an ancient player who'd only be around for a couple of years, either. He should be good for another contract after this one. I worry about if he can translate to the NBA, but he's worth a decent pick trade and a big deal to bring him over as opposed to spending a bunch more on an older player or hoping that a journeyman becomes a strong starter just because he's 23 or whatever.

He wanted to join the NBA last summer and some teams were interested (Bulls, Nuggets, bucks, spurs) but OKC wants a pick and he's asking 6-7M in a team with guaranteed playing time. Many teams are in the luxury tax and using the MLE for an unproveneuro player with risks (Teodosic fiasco with the Clippers didn't help) has so far kept anyone to pull the trigger.

Risks would be limited in SA, he could get his money and possibly playing time (but we know Pop, ask Nando). Having a fellow euro player could also help, but is he worth losing a pick? I don't know.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't like Klay that much because he would just add another player to the middle positions, but it's annoying that so many people don't see the value in having (good) players at all stages of their careers. Do you know when Tim became the oldest player on the Spurs? When Tim was a 14-year vet in the 2011-2012 season. Until 2007-2008, Duncan wasn't even in the top half of players by age. Dude wasn't within 10 years of the oldest player on the team until 2004-2005. That was his eighth season in the league. This belief that the Spurs should avoid guys who "can't grow with" Wemby is so off base that it's ahistoric to basically any GOAT candidate's rise. Actual Klay because of his injury history and massive contract wouldn't be a good choice. But someone with that kind of experience but more gravitas would do really well on a team full of guys who've never won anything (Keldon's gold doesn't count in this context). I wonder if there are any vets overseas who could help.

I agree. The Spurs didn't begin to accumulate the corporate knowledge until they began acquiring veterans with deep playoff experience. Moses and Rodman were the first, but Moses was only here for a cup of coffee and Rodman was less than useless. Chuck Person was the first I remember to really move the needle. He turned around the confidence of the Spurs. Then guys like Kerr and Kersey and Perdue helped the young guys learn how to win. Then later, when Willis and Smitty and Danny Ferry joined up, David was a seasoned vet with experience to pass on.

I think this team is poised to turn it around sooner than later. They need some veteran leadership. And they have some money to throw at guys with rings who many might not think of as marquee free agents.

[Obstructed_View]

Agree 100.
Too bad Lebrons contract with the Flamers is thru next season with player option not til 24-25.
If, repeat if his son is showing signs of being anywhere near Lebron Jr potential, i would welcome vet minimum Lebron with his son open heartedly.
We'll see what summer of 24 brings.

Concur on Klanus. Also don't want his attitude coming anywhere near my team. Insufferable phaggot along with that entire core. And now being passed on to Poole, altho i believe their run is over.

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't want Lebron anywhere near my team. He and his fucking kid can go start a circus in someone else's town.

[Chinook]

He wanted to join the NBA last summer and some teams were interested (Bulls, Nuggets, bucks, spurs) but OKC wants a pick and he's asking 6-7M in a team with guaranteed playing time. Many teams are in the luxury tax and using the MLE for an unproveneuro player with risks (Teodosic fiasco with the Clippers didn't help) has so far kept anyone to pull the trigger.

Risks would be limited in SA, he could get his money and possibly playing time (but we know Pop, ask Nando). Having a fellow euro player could also help, but is he worth losing a pick? I don't know.

de Colo came into a completely different situation. He was a good prospect who became a solid player but the Spurs didn't have room for him. Nando also had personal issues going on that made his opinion of the NBA much lower. I don't worry too much about that precedent. Teodosic is a concern as well. The Spurs are in a position to offer whatever they need to to cover the buyout and make a competitive offer, and I don't think there are many teams who could both do that and who have a roster that is such a good fit. As far as compensation, I think 33 and maybe additional seconds would be something I would do easily. It's not clear the Spurs even want to use that pick. Trading it for an established player at a position of need is a solid use for it, though there are other things they could do with it as well. If we're talking like a first, even the Charlotte pick, I would be more wary. I'd probably want the Spurs to get something else in return. But I am adamant that I don't want SA to have six firsts in 2024 and 2025, so using one to secure a guy they really like wouldn't hurt my feelings too much.

[objective]

I wonder if the Spurs could make a run at Micic. OKC should still have his rights, and the Spurs are one of the few teams that could both spend whatever Micic needs on a buyout while also being in a position that might be interesting to him. They don't have a clear starting PG but do have intriguing teammates. Spurs have a number of tradeable picks as well. Dude's the best player in Europe and is in his prime. Would be a nice "zag" move.

It's a pretty brilliant idea, good stuff

Because point guard or lead creator options in free agency are so slim, thinking out of the box to go get Micic would be a smart gamble. He would be without a doubt the best pick and roll operator on the team. Even with his age, having that kind of presence couldn't hurt Wemby in his early years. It's always a fear of mine with young bigs who have run into trouble developing when they don't have any competent guards who can get them the ball either in the roll or pop or post entry. Though Wemby isn't raw like that at all.

Sure there's the risk of him being nothing more than a fun passing bench guy like Teodosic, but give him a 2+1 and he'll be gone before Wemby's cost skyrockets anyway. I don't even think he needs to start, he'll be fun off the bench and the crowds love their sixth men. And if he cries like Spannoulis just cut him and move on. Spurs are paying what, $22-25 million next year on Birch, Primo and Graham? Biting the bullet on bad money is no big deal in the current situation

Throw OKC some seconds and get him.

[spurraider21]

At this point any time we can get something resembling halfway decent for a bundle of seconds is good with me

[bluebellmaniac]

If it's a couple seconds, I think OKC would have done a deal with someone already. They probably want a first.

[Philthemage]

If Sixers are looking to rebuild or even reload, could we take Tobias Harris off their hands maybe? Not sure if the have any more assets they could give to us for doing them this favour.

By all accounts Tobias is a great teammate and perhaps he can be like a Diaw 2.0 where spurs kick-start the second half of his career?

[mo7888]

I like the idea of adding Micic. I'm not as high on moving 33 because I think there are going to be a couple real good players drop. I'd probably still do it but, not until we see who's likely to be there at 33 on draft night. I'd be more inclined to aggregate a few of those future 2nd's along with or second 2nd this year.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I like the idea of adding Micic. I'm not as high on moving 33 because I think there are going to be a couple real good players drop. I'd probably still do it but, not until we see who's likely to be there at 33 on draft night. I'd be more inclined to aggregate a few of those future 2nd's along with or second 2nd this year.

Yeah, it feels like we can leverage those future assets if we see something we want in this year's draft late first round or second.

[Chinook]

I like the idea of adding Micic. I'm not as high on moving 33 because I think there are going to be a couple real good players drop. I'd probably still do it but, not until we see who's likely to be there at 33 on draft night. I'd be more inclined to aggregate a few of those future 2nd's along with or second 2nd this year.

My concern is that if the Spurs pick at 33, that player would probably be on the 15-man roster. As you mentioned there are intriguing players there, but the roster is a bit tight as is if you add in Micic. OKC still has a lot of firsts, but they apparently want to move around this draft and don't have a ton of ammo to do it without tossing in some of their better picks. If they use 33, 37 and 12, that might give them some decent fire power. For the Spurs, if they get 50, they still fill in that last two-way spot while saving the main roster spot for a vet. It's not the only way this can get done, of course. Like they could just let Tre walk, not re-sign KBD and use 33 on depth at the wing. Or they can take the risk Champ is forced to take a two-way and give that spot to 33. Or they could make other trades that clear up roster spots. I just hope the Spurs are looking at all avenues to improve their roster and not just the immediate ones.

[mo7888]

My concern is that if the Spurs pick at 33, that player would probably be on the 15-man roster. As you mentioned there are intriguing players there, but the roster is a bit tight as is if you add in Micic. OKC still has a lot of firsts, but they apparently want to move around this draft and don't have a ton of ammo to do it without tossing in some of their better picks. If they use 33, 37 and 12, that might give them some decent fire power. For the Spurs, if they get 50, they still fill in that last two-way spot while saving the main roster spot for a vet. It's not the only way this can get done, of course. Like they could just let Tre walk, not re-sign KBD and use 33 on depth at the wing. Or they can take the risk Champ is forced to take a two-way and give that spot to 33. Or they could make other trades that clear up roster spots. I just hope the Spurs are looking at all avenues to improve their roster and not just the immediate ones.

Like you said, there are many ways to get there. In fact, I don't remember a Spurs team going into a draft/summer with as many options as this team currently has, so I'm not getting to tied up mentally on a particular path. It's just in general that I've seen some mocks with players I'd personally value much higher than 33 dropping into that range and I wouldn't want to miss that opportunity if one of them fell, especially knowing there are other avenues we could take to still get Micic.

[TD 21]

I wonder if the Spurs could make a run at Micic. OKC should still have his rights, and the Spurs are one of the few teams that could both spend whatever Micic needs on a buyout while also being in a position that might be interesting to him. They don't have a clear starting PG but do have intriguing teammates. Spurs have a number of tradeable picks as well. Dude's the best player in Europe and is in his prime. Would be a nice "zag" move.

It's difficult to pinpoint his value. My sense is what you're proposing wouldn't get it done, but I don't have a sense for what would either and I wouldn't offer much more.

For 2-3 seasons, he'd potentially be a solid fit, buying them time and if he translates well, ultimately becoming a trade chip.

[Chinook]

If it's a couple seconds, I think OKC would have done a deal with someone already. They probably want a first.

I'm not sure a lot of teams will be interested, actually. The Spurs can uniquely offer a (now) not-tanking roster with good pieces but also not true competition at guard while being able to open up the pocketbook. Most teams can't afford to offer something like $56M/4 to a guy who might not be a top-level player in the NBA. The Spurs can.

Don't get me wrong, I would assume OKC wants a first, but I don't actually think compensation is the issue here. Sure, they wouldn't trade him for absolutely nothing, but people underestimate how hard it is to get "a couple of seconds" for a lot of teams.

[Chinook]

It's difficult to pinpoint his value. My sense is what you're proposing wouldn't get it done, but I don't have a sense for what would either and I wouldn't offer much more.

For 2-3 seasons, he'd potentially be a solid fit, buying them time and if he translates well, ultimately becoming a trade chip.

I don't know how good Micic would be in the NBA, but there's no reason why the Spurs should look to move him because of his age. In five years, he should still be in his late-prime. It would be a fascinating question as to which title team had the youngest "oldest" player. I wouldn't be surprised if no team has won a title without a player in his 30s. For the Spurs, the youngest was 36-year-old Jerome Kersey in 99. I don't see any reason to look to move on from a guy who's 35 -- let alone 31 or 32. If he's not getting it done anymore, sure. But I'd want more guys in their 30s the closer the Spurs get toward making noise.

[JPB]

If it's a couple seconds, I think OKC would have done a deal with someone already. They probably want a first.

They did last summer, probably reason why nothing materialized while Micic wanted to come.

[JPB]

for peeps who don't know Micic, some higlights from his 2021-2022 season. Can shoot and pass basically (in the Euroleague anyway).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNkK164j1tQ

[RC_Drunkford]

the good thing about Micic is he's 6'5'', so he won't be a defensive liability like a lot of other european PGs

[Mr. Body]

the good thing about Micic is he's 6'5'', so he won't be a defensive liability like a lot of other european PGs

He's tall so he plays good defense?

[BackHome]

I like but 29 old point guard I would offer our 44th pick and maybe next yard second round pick but that is it.

[RC_Drunkford]

He's tall so he plays good defense?

you can't teach size

[Mr. Body]

you can't teach size

Trees are tall. We should get a tree.

[RC_Drunkford]

Trees are tall. We should get a tree.

that is exactly the type of offseason move that I would expect from you :lol Yet you are excited that we draft a guy who's 7'5''

[lefty20]

Trees are tall. We should get a tree.

Adding an Ent would really ground our D, ngl.

[Chinook]

Adding an Ent would really ground our D, ngl.

Wood it now?

[Philthemage]

Wood it now?

Spurs success has always been rooted in defence. If you don't know this by now u should just leaf.

[Seventyniner]

Adding an Ent would really ground our D, ngl.

Meh, it would be all bark and no bite.

Kind of like the Morris brothers.

[Extra Stout]

I don’t think we’re addressing the root of the problem.

[exstatic]

I’m lichen the direction of this discussion.

[Davidicus]

Guys, please stop. Very cheesy. Just leaf it alone.

[Extra Stout]

Not to go out on a limb, but I think we should branch out to other topics.

[exstatic]

Everyone is trying to one up with acorny joke of their own

[Extra Stout]

That’s enough, everyone. Time to take a bough.

[spurraider21]

Really? Your guys answer is Micic? Really think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

[rjv]

if we're not careful, someone is going to arbor a lot of shade about this thread.

[Chinook]

Really? Your guys answer is Micic? Really think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

I think knot.

[spurraider21]

I think knot.
Why are you so closed-minded about this? Time for you to branch out a little.

[scott]

Did this board really need yet another topic to splinter over?

[heyheymymy]

okay these puns are getting a little sappy

[talkspurs]

I see so many people just ready to get rid of Tre. While I dont see him as a star I see how much better he and his brother have gotten since they entered the league. Tre is not a bad player and all good teams have their players that can be improved on. The spurs had Green for years. They had multiple C after David retired. I am not against getting an older vet but we dont need to pay someone big money to get them. this is an article saying tre is one of the best PG on the FA market this year.
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-pg-tre-jones-best-nba-free-agents

[Mr. Body]

I see so many people just ready to get rid of Tre. While I dont see him as a star I see how much better he and his brother have gotten since they entered the league. Tre is not a bad player and all good teams have their players that can be improved on. The spurs had Green for years. They had multiple C after David retired. I am not against getting an older vet but we dont need to pay someone big money to get them. this is an article saying tre is one of the best PG on the FA market this year.
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-pg-tre-jones-best-nba-free-agents

I like Tre a lot. SpursTalk just has to pick a player at near-random to fantasize about flinging into a volcano. The Tony vs. Manu stuff was idiotic. He may not be the long-term answer at the position, but I sure as hell don't want to try to replace him.

[spurs10]

We should branch out in another direction.

[mo7888]

I'm satisfied with rolling with Tre myself next year. Scoot is the only clear cut guy I'd have above him day 1 in the draft and i still can't see us trading up that high. There's a few guys that may be better after a little seasoning and I'd be happy with them (Cason/ Bufkin) but, I still don't know if there's enough difference to justify trading up for them.

There could be a guy or two that falls into the 20's that could get PG minutes behind Tre that could be interesting. I still like NSJ alot if he falls, but I dont expect him to fall out of the lottery... Brandin Podziemski is getting some attention as a PG/SG and it's possible that Cason, Bufkin, or Hood-Schifino fall into that range...

[NickiRasgo]

I see so many people just ready to get rid of Tre. While I dont see him as a star I see how much better he and his brother have gotten since they entered the league. Tre is not a bad player and all good teams have their players that can be improved on. The spurs had Green for years. They had multiple C after David retired. I am not against getting an older vet but we dont need to pay someone big money to get them. this is an article saying tre is one of the best PG on the FA market this year.
https://www.si.com/nba/spurs/news/san-antonio-spurs-pg-tre-jones-best-nba-free-agents

Yeah. I don't get why Tre shouldn't be prioritized and wanted him to be replaced with an unproven player via draft but I think they'll bring him back. Tre one the Spurs player who reacted via Twitter when they got the #1 pick tho doesn't guarantee anything:

https://twitter.com/Tre3Jones/status/1658629922825314310

[spurraider21]

Yeah. I don't get why Tre shouldn't be prioritized and wanted him to be replaced with an unproven player via draft but I think they'll bring him back. Tre one the Spurs player who reacted via Twitter when they got the #1 pick tho doesn't guarantee anything:

https://twitter.com/Tre3Jones/status/1658629922825314310
its up to him. If he’s going to accept backup money, sure why not

[JPB]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwS2zOjWYAAyAZD?format=jpg&name=small

[RC_Drunkford]

They should absolutely try to lock up Tre long term. Even if we get a better PG at some point he‘ll still be an elite back up off the bench

[Mr. Body]

I'm satisfied with rolling with Tre myself next year. Scoot is the only clear cut guy I'd have above him day 1 in the draft and i still can't see us trading up that high. There's a few guys that may be better after a little seasoning and I'd be happy with them (Cason/ Bufkin) but, I still don't know if there's enough difference to justify trading up for them.

There could be a guy or two that falls into the 20's that could get PG minutes behind Tre that could be interesting. I still like NSJ alot if he falls, but I dont expect him to fall out of the lottery... Brandin Podziemski is getting some attention as a PG/SG and it's possible that Cason, Bufkin, or Hood-Schifino fall into that range...

Who do you see in the lottery?

Wemby
B Miller
Scoot
Amen
Cam Whittmore
Jarace
Ausar
Hendricks
Black

I think those are almost certainly top 10 locks.

Dick
Lively

Are almost certain to be among the next to go.


Bufkin
Coulibaly

Are getting a lot of buzz. That's thirteen players.

Jordan Hawkins
Cason Wallace
Keyonte George
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Leonard Miller

These players have also seen some buzz and interest. Smith would have to jump past these players and maybe the rank above to be in the lottery. Then there are players like Jett Howard, Clowney, Whitehead, Jackson, Sensabaugh, and others who might still push past him.

I think it's as likely Nick Smith Jr is closer to the 20s before it's done. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing for him in the long run.

[mo7888]

Who do you see in the lottery?

Wemby
B Miller
Scoot
Amen
Cam Whittmore
Jarace
Ausar
Hendricks
Black

I think those are almost certainly top 10 locks.

Dick
Lively

Are almost certain to be among the next to go.


Bufkin
Coulibaly

Are getting a lot of buzz. That's thirteen players.

Jordan Hawkins
Cason Wallace
Keyonte George
Jalen Hood-Schifino
Leonard Miller

These players have also seen some buzz and interest. Smith would have to jump past these players and maybe the rank above to be in the lottery. Then there are players like Jett Howard, Clowney, Whitehead, Jackson, Sensabaugh, and others who might still push past him.

I think it's as likely Nick Smith Jr is closer to the 20s before it's done. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing for him in the long run.

I think you're pretty close there, especiallyyour top 10... I hope you're right and NSJ slips enough that he'd be a good gamble moving up for. I don't think he falls though. He had a good pro-day that limited alot of the concern some scouts had. I think he goes between 10 and 16.

My current board looks like this:

Tier 1:
1. Victor Wembanyama
Tier 2:
2. Scoot Henderson
Tier 3:
3. Jarace Walker
4. Cam Whitmore
5. Amen Thompson
6. Brandon Miller
7. Ausar Thompson
8. Taylor Hendricks
9. Gradey Dick
Tier:4
10. Nick Smith Jr
11. Cason Wallace
12. Anthony Black
13. Jordan Hawkins
14. Kobe Bufkin
15. Kris Murray
16. Rayan Rupert
17. Bilal Coulibaly
18. Keyonte George
Tier 5:
19. Leonard Miller
20. Dereck Lively II
21. Jalen Hood-Schifino
22. Dariq Whitehead
23. Gregory Jackson II
24. Brandin Podziemski
Tier: 6
25. Maxwell Lewis
26. Brian Sensabaugh
27. Jett Howard
28. Noah Clowney
29. Tristan Vukcevic
30. O-Max Prosper

It's not a Spurs centric board.... I definitely think a few guys like Bilal, Lively, and Miller will go higher than I have them rated, which just means someone will fall.

[Degoat]

Tre definitely needs to be brought back, he’ll get easy shots for Wemby. Tre had a good connection with Zion at duke

[CGD]

^ I think most folks here like Tre. He’s in my view the exact type of blue blood upper classman worthy of a SRP.

But the very fair question I think folks are asking (self included) is whether it’s wise to start him in a SL otherwise very limited shooting wise. You can make a case that Graham should start over him for this reason.

[Mr. Body]

You definitely resign Tre this summer. We need him, badly. You can move him later. We're past the point where people are going to go from "Who is Derrick White?" to comparing half the players in this draft to Derrick White. Eyes are going to be on this franchise and its young players are going to be seen.

[jjspur]

^ I think most folks here like Tre. He’s in my view the exact type of blue blood upper classman worthy of a SRP.

But the very fair question I think folks are asking (self included) is whether it’s wise to start him in a SL otherwise very limited shooting wise. You can make a case that Graham should start over him for this reason.



I think most people here do like Trey, the question becomes how much do we like him ? 8 mil. per year, 10 mil. per year , 12 mil. per year ? What if he says no to what the spurs offer ? Then maybe a draft pick or a player from another team makes more sense . A lot of things are up in the air right now and things will probably get trickier as the draft nears. The front office has some hard decisions to make.

[The Truth #6]

A while back, I was more optimistic about Jones as a potential starter. But still, he’s a great back up option. Definitely bring him back. He will be good for competition. If someone can play better than him, then they can be the starter, basically.

[scott]

You definitely resign Tre this summer. We need him, badly. You can move him later. We're past the point where people are going to go from "Who is Derrick White?" to comparing half the players in this draft to Derrick White. Eyes are going to be on this franchise and its young players are going to be seen.

Who else besides Black is being compared to Derrick White? Asking because I’m down to draft Derrick White again.

[Mr. Body]

Who else besides Black is being compared to Derrick White? Asking because I’m down to draft Derrick White again.

I've lost track, but it's usually players who can impact games rather than just running around real fast. Guys like Podziemski. There have been others. They don't always have much in common with White.

[Degoat]

Who else besides Black is being compared to Derrick White? Asking because I’m down to draft Derrick White again.

I feel like Colby Jones has spurs written all over him, gives me Derrick White and Malcolm Brogdan vibes.

[JPB]

Who do you see in the lottery?

Dick
Lively

Are almost certain to be among the next to go.

.

I rather see

Lively
Dick

Personnaly.

[JPB]

I think most people here do like Trey, the question becomes how much do we like him ? 8 mil. per year, 10 mil. per year , 12 mil. per year ? What if he says no to what the spurs offer ? Then maybe a draft pick or a player from another team makes more sense . A lot of things are up in the air right now and things will probably get trickier as the draft nears. The front office has some hard decisions to make.

Will be interesting to see how Much Wemby impact players' decision to stay or come, maybe for a smaller offer in both cases but ways to compensate with endorsements and stuff or just the will of being in potentially the team of the years to come, with a lot of attention and hopefully success.

[Ariel]

Will be interesting to see how Much Wemby impact players' decision to stay or come, maybe for a smaller offer in both cases but ways to compensate with endorsements and stuff or just the will of being in potentially the team of the years to come, with a lot of attention and hopefully success.
There may be an impact once Wemby has proven in the NBA he is a franchise caliber player that can lead a winning team. Even in this best case scenario we should probably not have unrealistic expectations, we only have to take a look at what kind of free agents other MVP caliber players in small markets (Tim himself, Giannis, Jokic, etc) have managed to lure, and it isn't an overwhelming list of top talent. With that said, if Wemby and the rest of the core are competitive by year 2, the FA class of '25 is deep enough that we could conceivably land one or more interesting free agents.

[baseline bum]

I really don't understand liking all these players that led this team to 22 wins as some kind of supporting cast to put around Wemby and expect him to stay after his first contract. I hope most of the 2022-23 team is gone in 2-3 years when Wemby would be entering his prime. Sochan looks like a keeper and Vassell shows some promise if he can stay healthy but otherwise pls kill me if Tre Jones is still the starting PG.

[bluebellmaniac]

I really don't understand liking all these players that led this team to 22 wins as some kind of supporting cast to put around Wemby and expect him to stay after his first contract. I hope most of the 2022-23 team is gone in 2-3 years when Wemby would be entering his prime. Sochan looks like a keeper and Vassell shows some promise if he can stay healthy but otherwise pls kill me if Tre Jones is still the starting PG.

In all fairness, the team did what it was set up to do: tank for Wemby.

We have some decent role players, but still need another star. That and another couple more solid role players would make us contenders.

[Mr. Body]

I really don't understand liking all these players that led this team to 22 wins as some kind of supporting cast to put around Wemby and expect him to stay after his first contract. I hope most of the 2022-23 team is gone in 2-3 years when Wemby would be entering his prime. Sochan looks like a keeper and Vassell shows some promise if he can stay healthy but otherwise pls kill me if Tre Jones is still the starting PG.

Who here is advocating Tre Jones as the starter when Wembanyama enters his prime?

And 2-3 years Wembanyama will be 22. That's hardly his prime.

[wildbill2u]

How about some reassessing of Devonte Graham and his possible value to next season? He came over from N.O. at the trade deadline and his first game with the Spurs hit 31 points. Granted this was a happy fluke but read this article which explains a lot about his movement and progress since coming into the league. 'Whatever Coach Pop Needs': Spurs PG Devonte' Graham Embracing New Team Role (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/whatever-coach-pop-needs-spurs-pg-devonte-graham-embracing-new-team-role/ar-AA1bXpvN)

I didn't know he had been a starter at Charlotte. apparently, he can shoot. I'm just wondering if we have a sleeper hidden in the roster for the PG slot, whether starter or backup???

[Philthemage]

How about some reassessing of Devonte Graham and his possible value to next season? He came over from N.O. at the trade deadline and his first game with the Spurs hit 31 points. Granted this was a happy fluke but read this article which explains a lot about his movement and progress since coming into the league. 'Whatever Coach Pop Needs': Spurs PG Devonte' Graham Embracing New Team Role (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/whatever-coach-pop-needs-spurs-pg-devonte-graham-embracing-new-team-role/ar-AA1bXpvN)

I didn't know he had been a starter at Charlotte. apparently, he can shoot. I'm just wondering if we have a sleeper hidden in the roster for the PG slot, whether starter or backup???

I'm personally not a fan of undersized shooting guards. If Toronto loses Van Fleet maybe they would want to replace him with someone in the same mould?

[CGD]

^ I think Pop is enamored with having an “Eddie House” type of player off the bench at all times (he’s referenced that specifically player before). Instant offense/microwave. It explains Neal, Mills, Forbes, and now Graham.

[ismael-robert]

We have a new shooting coach. Tre is gonna put in work this summer and Devonte will have a summer with our coaches, development staff, learning plays, and first training camp. We're fine.

[T Park]

I really don't understand liking all these players that led this team to 22 wins as some kind of supporting cast to put around Wemby and expect him to stay after his first contract. I hope most of the 2022-23 team is gone in 2-3 years when Wemby would be entering his prime. Sochan looks like a keeper and Vassell shows some promise if he can stay healthy but otherwise pls kill me if Tre Jones is still the starting PG.

The best players on this team before Wemby hardly played together. This season wasnt at all a litmus on how those guys truly are.

When they did play together they played well. Won some games they shouldnt have, and when they were together and were doing well, pop would alter the rotation and kill any notion of winning games they shouldnt.

Tre Jones is a more than fine point guard to have for a couple years start. We’re acting like this guy is some G League point guard when hes not.

[TD 21]

I don't know how good Micic would be in the NBA, but there's no reason why the Spurs should look to move him because of his age. In five years, he should still be in his late-prime. It would be a fascinating question as to which title team had the youngest "oldest" player. I wouldn't be surprised if no team has won a title without a player in his 30s. For the Spurs, the youngest was 36-year-old Jerome Kersey in 99. I don't see any reason to look to move on from a guy who's 35 -- let alone 31 or 32. If he's not getting it done anymore, sure. But I'd want more guys in their 30s the closer the Spurs get toward making noise.

I'm just saying, I'd view him as a likely bridge. Of course, it could work out to be longer term, but in 5 years he'll be 34.5, almost certainly clearly post prime.

It's not just that, it's what they'll likely need out of that position eventually, which is a star or at least someone with the skillset (if not the efficiency/consistency) of one.



Tre Jones is a more than fine point guard to have for a couple years start. We’re acting like this guy is some G League point guard when hes not.

He's literally the worst primary initiator in the league. A small guard, who can't shoot and is a mediocre play maker for others has no business starting in '23.

[MultiTroll]

Tacko Fall is playing like Shaq in the Chinese League and the highlights are must-see - SBNation.com (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/11/3/23438523/tacko-fall-china-video-cba-highlights-stats)

hmmn

1587427745969184777

[Mr. Body]

He's literally the worst primary initiator in the league. A small guard, who can't shoot and is a mediocre play maker for others has no business starting in '23.

Lol.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/TylerFeldmanTV/status/1665366570925801472

[slick'81]

https://twitter.com/TylerFeldmanTV/status/1665366570925801472

Devonte swing!!

[Ice009]

https://twitter.com/TylerFeldmanTV/status/1665366570925801472

What shoes is he wearing? The midsole looks like it's scooped out. Seem interesting. Haven't kept up with shoe tech the past 4 or 5 years.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

What shoes is he wearing? The midsole looks like it's scooped out. Seem interesting. Haven't kept up with shoe tech the past 4 or 5 years.
Air Jordan 34 Low 'EYBL

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0603/3031/1875/products/2_ee0d31f2-19ab-4da5-8e8b-d4428371e1e5_540x.jpg?v=1685405924

[heyheymymy]

Could totally see Graham being a nice feature to the roster next season. Hits some big threes. Kinda the opposite skills of Jones so between the two you have a Swiss army knife guard/ballhandler corps.

[spurraider21]

devonte knows this is a prove-it year given his lack of significant guarantees beyond this season

[T Park]

I'm just saying, I'd view him as a likely bridge. Of course, it could work out to be longer term, but in 5 years he'll be 34.5, almost certainly clearly post prime.

It's not just that, it's what they'll likely need out of that position eventually, which is a star or at least someone with the skillset (if not the efficiency/consistency) of one.




He's literally the worst primary initiator in the league. A small guard, who can't shoot and is a mediocre play maker for others has no business starting in '23.


Hes literally not if you’d watch the games, but me responding to your drivel is more than i wanted to in the first place, so whos the real idiot.

[spurraider21]

Tacko Fall is playing like Shaq in the Chinese League and the highlights are must-see - SBNation.com (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/11/3/23438523/tacko-fall-china-video-cba-highlights-stats)

hmmn

1587427745969184777
lol china

[TD 21]

Hes literally not if you’d watch the games, but me responding to your drivel is more than i wanted to in the first place, so whos the real idiot.

He literally is, if you're not a myopic homer and/or someone with a rudimentary understanding of the game/league.

This isn't the 90s, when you could get by with a PG like Johnson (if you had superstars like Robinson and Duncan, that is).

[CGD]

Tacko Fall is playing like Shaq in the Chinese League and the highlights are must-see - SBNation.com (https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2022/11/3/23438523/tacko-fall-china-video-cba-highlights-stats)

hmmn

1587427745969184777


And DeJuan Blair Charles Barkley

[MultiTroll]

lol china


And DeJuan Blair Charles Barkley

https://youtu.be/rlC54IzXZpM

[spurraider21]

https://youtu.be/rlC54IzXZpM
why are you posting highlights of a trash player who had to go to china to have anything resembling pro basketball success?

[MultiTroll]

why are you posting highlights of a trash player who had to go to china to have anything resembling pro basketball success?
Chris Andersen NBA Champion as Miami Heat beat Gregg Popplevich, Manu Ginobili and the Spurs.

Birdman Chris Andersen!Say hello to the "Birdman" Chris Andersen. He was a player who left it all on the court. Much like Brandon Jennings, Andersen started his career in China before going to the NBA. Birdman left junior college for the NBA but didn't sign up for the draft.


These NBA Stars Played Overseas In China (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/basketball_nba/these-nba-stars-played-overseas-in-china/ss-AA104Zhd#image=1)

Are you claiming that Greg Popplevich, greatest coach of all time didn't / doesn't know what he is doing?
Jimmer Fredette agrees to deal with San Antonio Spurs - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13302963/jimmer-fredette-agrees-deal-san-antonio-spurs)

[spurraider21]

Chris Andersen NBA Champion as Miami Heat beat Gregg Popplevich, Manu Ginobili and the Spurs.

Birdman Chris Andersen!

Say hello to the "Birdman" Chris Andersen. He was a player who left it all on the court. Much like Brandon Jennings, Andersen started his career in China before going to the NBA. Birdman left junior college for the NBA but didn't sign up for the draft.


These NBA Stars Played Overseas In China (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/basketball_nba/these-nba-stars-played-overseas-in-china/ss-AA104Zhd#image=1)

Are you claiming that Greg Popplevich, greatest coach of all time didn't / doesn't know what he is doing?
Jimmer Fredette agrees to deal with San Antonio Spurs - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13302963/jimmer-fredette-agrees-deal-san-antonio-spurs)
some good nba players have played in china. some of then like birdman played in china before the nba. some of them like marbury/mcgrady went there because they were washed up nba players.

and then some were players who simply couldnt hack it in the nba and instead played in china. jimmer, fall, etc

fall was complete ass in the nba. meanwhile mengke bateer is a multiple time league mvp in the chinese league :lol

[tbdog]

Could totally see Graham being a nice feature to the roster next season. Hits some big threes. Kinda the opposite skills of Jones so between the two you have a Swiss army knife guard/ballhandler corps.

I just can't imagine a playoff team would want him. He can't play both sides.

[Joseph Kony]

I just can't imagine a playoff team would want him. He can't play both sides.
Neither can Duncan Robinson and he has played a huge role for the Heat in their finals run this season

[wildbill2u]

A while back, I was more optimistic about Jones as a potential starter. But still, he’s a great back up option. Definitely bring him back. He will be good for competition. If someone can play better than him, then they can be the starter, basically.

I think you have to look at Jones as our coaches and GM do. Would they really be trying to shoehorn Sochan into a PG role if they wanted to keep Jones as the starter. Sochan to PG sounds like a desperation move to me.

[exstatic]

I think you have to look at Jones as our coaches and GM do. Would they really be trying to shoehorn Sochan into a PG role if they wanted to keep Jones as the starter. Sochan to PG sounds like a desperation move to me.

They did that because Primo got cut and Wesley blew out his MCL, and they were without a backup.

[Mr. Body]

I think you have to look at Jones as our coaches and GM do. Would they really be trying to shoehorn Sochan into a PG role if they wanted to keep Jones as the starter. Sochan to PG sounds like a desperation move to me.

SOCHAN IS NOT A PG AND WILL NEVER PLAY PG.

[The Truth #6]

I think you have to look at Jones as our coaches and GM do. Would they really be trying to shoehorn Sochan into a PG role if they wanted to keep Jones as the starter. Sochan to PG sounds like a desperation move to me.

I still think they want competition and for someone to play better than Jones. I imagine that’s how the coaches see it.

Could be desperation with Jeremy, or, you know, tanking while developing skills.

[ace3g]

CtMxs1igSGt

[dbestpro]

Of interest is Reggie Miller said Wemby reminds him of a 7-5 version of himself

[Ignazzz]

Of interest is Reggie Miller said Wemby reminds him of a 7-5 version of himself

Reggie shotblocking and great rebounder?

[Mr. Body]

Wemby does look like Reggie Miller stretched out nearly another foot.

[Russ]

Wemby does look like Reggie Miller stretched out nearly another foot.

Let's hope Wemby has a better ring size.

[kobyz]

Matisse Thybulle is one name who's interesting as free agent signing

[John B]

Of interest is Reggie Miller said Wemby reminds him of a 7-5 version of himself

Reggie was one of those you like to hate because of his tenacity at the court. It wouldn’t be bad to have his dawg attitude.

I mountain bike, and Reggie is a regular guy you see riding his tall bike, with his pink jersey. Very approachable guy.

[Trueblood]

We all know we need a veteran center because Wemby doesn't want to play the 5. A report just dropped today that the Sun's are interested in going after Lillard. They don't have any draft capital, however, so they need a third team with draft picks and cap room. We could offer up some draft capital to Phoenix for Ayton. Between that and waiving Paul they could clear enough space to take on Lillard, but they still wouldn't have enough draft capital just in what we give them. They might have to look at seconds, some pick swaps, and some young players. Even then it's not enough unless Lillard specifically request Phoenix.

Personally I'd prefer if we just throw some cap space at bringing back Poeltl and using some of our draft capital to go after Wallace as our future starting point guard. Poeltl provides a good stop gap for a few years to give Wemby time to bulk up plus he already knows the system and Wallace is a great defensive minded PG that could grow with the core.

But Ayton is a double double machine and he and Wemby could be the twin towers 2.0 for years to come. Just some food for thought...

[exstatic]

We all know we need a veteran center because Wemby doesn't want to play the 5. A report just dropped today that the Sun's are interested in going after Lillard. They don't have any draft capital, however, so they need a third team with draft picks and cap room. We could offer up some draft capital to Phoenix for Ayton. Between that and waiving Paul they could clear enough space to take on Lillard, but they still wouldn't have enough draft capital just in what we give them. They might have to look at seconds, some pick swaps, and some young players. Even then it's not enough unless Lillard specifically request Phoenix.

Personally I'd prefer if we just throw some cap space at bringing back Poeltl and using some of our draft capital to go after Wallace as our future starting point guard. Poeltl provides a good stop gap for a few years to give Wemby time to bulk up plus he already knows the system and Wallace is a great defensive minded PG that could grow with the core.

But Ayton is a double double machine and he and Wemby could be the twin towers 2.0 for years to come. Just some food for thought...

Ayton sucks. He’s an overpaid baby.

[Mr. Body]

Ayton is a lazy, disinterested guy who plays basketball because he's tall and would rather be playing Call of Duty. He's unplayable in the postseason and was beat out by a guy name Jock. As a former number one pick, he's makes $30-35 million a year for the next few years and the team that currently has him is desperate to get something, anything, for him instead of keep him.

[BackHome]

The key is surrounding Wemby with good players but also high character guys - And I don't mean church going clean dudes - I mean guys who understand what sacrifice and hard work means players who will have your back and go to war with you.

[Chomag]

I still think Spurs should Target Steven Adams, he would be a perfect fit along side of Wemby. He's an enforcer and a great teamate.
He also would take allot of pressure off of Wemby down in the paint and would be there for him when other teams try to bully ball him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I actually love the fit with Zollins. He’s a banger plus his 3 ball stroke can help open the lane for Wemby and KJ.

[RC_Drunkford]

anybody who thinks Devin Vassell can not be a 2nd or 3rd option should probably watch this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-BMZh_dKO0

[slick'81]

Vassell is gonna feast this season

[SpursFan86]

anybody who thinks Devin Vassell can not be a 2nd or 3rd option should probably watch this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-BMZh_dKO0

I’m really high on Vassell - if you look at what he was able to do in his 3rd season he stacks up very favorably against other talented wings. Not necessarily saying he’ll be as good or better than all of these guys, but check this out:


Vassell in year 3 at 22 years old: 18.5/4.0/3.5 on 55% TS playing 31 mpg


Jimmy Butler in year 3 at 24 years old: 13/5/2.5 on 52% TS playing 38 mpg


Paul George in year 3 at 22 years old: 17.5/7.5/4 on 53% TS playing 37 mpg


Khris Middleton in year 3 at 23 years old: 13.5/4.5/2.5 on 56% TS playing 30 mpg


Again, the point of this isn’t to say that he’ll end up being better than all of these guys…but when you look at the production he put up at just 22 years old with hardly any surrounding talent, there’s no reason to think he can’t become a borderline all-star level talent. It’s very likely he improves noticeably from here on out.

[Mr. Body]

No Spur is going to benefit playing next to Wembanyam more than Vassell. He's in the perfect spot to excel.

[tbdog]

Neither can Duncan Robinson and he has played a huge role for the Heat in their finals run this season

Robinson is 6'8. But yeah, he is bad on that end. Also Robinson has such good offball movement.

[Philthemage]

Word is Gary Trent Jr won't re-sign with Raps. Could we go for him? We can really use a go to guy for buckets.

[Degoat]

Word is Gary Trent Jr won't re-sign with Raps. Could we go for him? We can really use a go to guy for buckets.

I would love Gary Trent Jr but where would he fit? Vassell, Keldon, and Malaki need those minutes unless we trade Keldon

[Mr. Body]

Word is Orlando may go hard after Trent. They need shooting even more than we do.

[Philthemage]

If we had Trent, we could have a solid rotation of 1-3 in Tre, Brenham, Trent, Vassell, Keldon and McDermott.

Keldon could move to 4 on small ball occasions.

[Dejounte]

Smh the “coaching staff just needs to make sure Wemby gets the ball at all times” genius basketball takes are going to age poorly when Popovich is doing the same thing. Basketball is a 5 man sport. And Wemby is not a basketball god who can do everything by himself. Even Jordan didnt do that.

[exstatic]

Smh the “coaching staff just needs to make sure Wemby gets the ball at all times” genius basketball takes are going to age poorly when Popovich is doing the same thing. Basketball is a 5 man sport. And Wemby is not a basketball god who can do everything by himself. Even Jordan didnt do that.

It’s not a matter of doing everything, it’s being put into a situation to do SOMETHING, like the occasional accurate post entry pass.

[SpursFan86]

Smh the “coaching staff just needs to make sure Wemby gets the ball at all times” genius basketball takes are going to age poorly when Popovich is doing the same thing. Basketball is a 5 man sport. And Wemby is not a basketball god who can do everything by himself. Even Jordan didnt do that.

There’s a middle ground between going several possessions without ever touching the ball and just throwing it to him and having him isolate every time down the floor. No one expects the latter (especially not in the NBA), but watching his scrub teammates run the offense without him even being involved is just awful basketball.