Big Board 2.0: Who Spurs May Target After the Victor Wembanyama Lottery Win

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-2-nba-draft/

:reading

[Leetonidas]

Dick has size and is an outstanding shooter.

Nice

[Mr. Body]

The problem comes when Dick leaks out and you have to contain him.

[couchman]

I love that this is worth posting. Gives additional credence to the idea that the Spurs may want to move up for their 2nd pick of the day

[BillMc]

The problem comes when Dick leaks out and you have to contain him.

What if Dick is on load management?

[Mr. Body]

What if Dick is on load management?

He can't help it. Sometimes he just goes off.

[spurraider21]

his off-ball movement is quite good

[lefty20]

Gotta make sure Dick doesn't get exposed on the other side of the court.

[Robz4000]

Gotta make sure Dick doesn't get exposed on the other side of the court.

How is Dick's double pump skill?

[Extra Stout]

Dick is a solid penetrator

[BackHome]

Dick knows Dick

[Obstructed_View]

Best paragraph since Rick Majerus said "I'm not a big Gay guy "

[Chinook]

Gotta make sure Dick doesn't get exposed on the other side of the court.

Only if his man is Primo

[Twisted_Dawg]

Lots of Freudian imagery in this thread.

[Chinook]

I'm loving this punny arc of SpursTalk

[Extra Stout]

Only if his man is Primo
He constantly left Dick wide open

[spurraider21]

penis

[BatManu20]

penis

:lol

[PhantomDashCam]

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Trayce Jackson-Davis is in play within late first to early second of the draft for the Spurs.

He actually reminds me a lot of a Dom. Sabonis-lite player and could probably play for the team day 1 (which you would hope already being 23 y.o…) as a 7th or 8th man.

He would help limit the physicality defensively directed at Wemby too and is a capable rim protector in his own right.
I’m buying the potential of the shot long term as well.

Think he would be tremendous value anywhere from late first onwards.

https://youtu.be/lBxer6nr_Qw


https://youtu.be/D9zh8f0lDGQ

[Robz4000]

penis

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.793671820.3861/fposter,small,wall_texture,product,750x1000.u2.jpg

[Ef-man]

penis

Isn't that the nickname of his cousin, Schlong?

[Mugen]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26gR2BU2Hrt9HSN6E/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9527hgxk671kbwqsr062je2h9v8vchet 5vxsl6voir5&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[Robz4000]

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26gR2BU2Hrt9HSN6E/200w.gif?cid=6c09b9527hgxk671kbwqsr062je2h9v8vchet 5vxsl6voir5&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

Get a load of this guy

[AusSpur]

So the Spurs like Dick's size and how he strokes it

[Russ]

Dear timvp.

I assume you have "priviledges" here.

Can you delete posts 2 through 24 (other than 19) in this thread.

Thanks, Russ

[K...]

and here i thought bidet talk was the worse thread on the piss soaking forum.

[Mugen]

Dear timvp.

I assume you have "priviledges" here.

Can you delete posts 2 through 24 (other than 19) in this thread.

Thanks, Russ

Just pull out of the thread, tbh.

[CGD]

Not sure if it’s kosher to move on from the pun-gasim on page 1, but anyway I’ll be first in the raza line to get a Jaime Jaquez jersey.

Don’t underrate how big a deal that would be

[spurraider21]

Just pull out of the thread, tbh.
he's too soft tbh. will never last

[LeBowen]

If PATFO really like someone who's obtainable in 20-25 range, it should be fairly easy to move up with 33 and a couple more second round picks.

I can't say that I know much about any of these players other than top5 candidates, but if Spurs really want to get a better PG than Tre, then draft isn't it unless they can get into top10 by some miracle.
There's no way a late first rounder or even a second rounder would be good enough to contribute right away.

[BatManu20]

Give me Amari Bailey, Brandin Podziemski, or Tristan Vukcevic at 33. Would love either one of those picks.

Jaquez will likely be gone but I like his game too.

TJD didn’t shoot much at Indy but he shot it well from 3 at the combine and if he can replicate that at the next level (big if), he’d be a major steal at 33 despite his age imo.

[spurraider21]

we should be doing everything possible to consolidate our SRPs even if we dont get good value for them

with the sheer volume of FRPs we are expected to have in the next several years, its going to be hard enough to find space/time to develop all of those picks, let alone some random SRP dart throws. even if the charlotte pick doesnt convey, the result there is they send us 2 more SRPs. same with the toronto pick.

any SRP we actually make is a failure in my book

[Russ]

Not sure if it’s kosher to move on from the pun-gasim on page 1, but anyway I’ll be first in the raza line to get a Jaime Jaquez jersey.

Don’t underrate how big a deal that would be

Thanks for moving on from puns (I'm actually sincere about that, much appreciated).

As for the rest . . .

I agree with you on Jaime Jaquez -- man, he's really gonna be a difference-maker. :lol

[Mr. Body]

A good list, and it's worth mentioning timvp had Wesley and Branham high on his list last year.

To me, I have to break things down further. There are players I'd like to have there, but would I give up assets to get them? Jarace Walker would be nice to have, but I woudn't use up the capital and assets required to get him. He doesn't serve an outright need and his skill package isn't so incredible it suggests going deep into the bag to get him makes sense. Then there are others, the Podziemski or Jackson-Davis, who wouldn't cost as much or might just be there at 33.

I maintain there are only a few players worth going deep into the bag for, and it's because it's rare to find PG prospects who are good defenders while also not being shit at offensive skills. It's very rare. And obviously a team need. I can see going deep for shooting, but to me that would be overpaying. You can get shooting cheaper elsewhere. There's shooting every draft.

[spurraider21]

A good list, and it's worth mentioning timvp had Wesley and Branham high on his list last year.

To me, I have to break things down further. There are players I'd like to have there, but would I give up assets to get them? Jarace Walker would be nice to have, but I woudn't use up the capital and assets required to get him. He doesn't serve an outright need and his skill package isn't so incredible it suggests going deep into the bag to get him makes sense. Then there are others, the Podziemski or Jackson-Davis, who wouldn't cost as much or might just be there at 33.

I maintain there are only a few players worth going deep into the bag for, and it's because it's rare to find PG prospects who are good defenders while also not being shit at offensive skills. It's very rare. And obviously a team need. I can see going deep for shooting, but to me that would be overpaying. You can get shooting cheaper elsewhere. There's shooting every draft.
yep. as a reminder

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-final-2022-nba-draft/

[timtonymanu]

getting sensitive over puns :lol. "I'm actually sincere about that."

[baseline bum]

As long as Dick doesn't shrink in big moments, we need him to score from deep.

[Mr. Body]

yep. as a reminder

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-final-2022-nba-draft/

I think he had an earlier one with the pair of them even higher than this.

[Extra Stout]

:nerd Anthony Black is #3 on the big board and Cason Wallace is #7. Kobe Bufkin is #8. They are contrasted with the “high-risk, high-reward” prospects like Amen Thompson.

While timvp says there is no realistic trade to get Scoot Henderson, he is silent on that point for the other guys.

:elephant:elephant

[Extra Stout]

Jaime Jaquez, who realistically could be available at #33, is 14th on the big board. :nerd

[rascal]

:nerd Anthony Black is #3 on the big board and Cason Wallace is #7. Kobe Bufkin is #8. They are contrasted with the “high-risk, high-reward” prospects like Amen Thompson.

While timvp says there is no realistic trade to get Scoot Henderson, he is silent on that point for the other guys.

:elephant:elephant

I don't see the fascination with Anthony Black. Mr. Body says Scoot can't shoot but Black is even worse.

Black's game looks slow to me, a better college player than an NBA player. Outside of Miller will be the biggest bust inside the top ten.

Rather have Bufkin or Jalen Hood-Shifino at a lower cost.

[rascal]

Jaime Jaquez, who realistically could be available at #33, is 14th on the big board. :nerd

I can see the Spurs targeting Jaquez and slot him in a Manu role.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see the fascination with Anthony Black. Mr. Body says Scoot can't shoot but Black is even worse.

Black's game looks slow to me, a better college player than an NBA player. Outside of Miller will be the biggest bust inside the top ten.

Rather have Bufkin or Jalen Hood-Shifino at a lower cost.

I'm also uncertain about Anthony Black and at this point would prolly take Kobe Bufkin at a lower price point. Black's slow release does scare me, and I think by getting him you project having him and Sochan on the same starting unit eventually. I think they can be twin terrors on defense and they see the floor similarly, but neither will be a great shooter nor a volume shooter. Meanwhile, Bufkin has no real weaknesses. Maybe a jack-of-all trades, no elite skills problem? While he's not a pure point, once he took more of the team reins next to Dickerson he was really showing out, esp. in his shooting numbers.

Scoot vs. Black

To me, a no contest, however. I take Black every time for this team. The combination of playmaking, defense, and processing is very high. He's a very smart player. Scoot has high attributes and more 'star' quality. But he's high usage, small, not a good defender, and will need the ball to make plays. Black's first response to what he wants to give a team is "I want to make my teammates better." Scoot wants to be the man, he wants to be the star. I think the likelihood of Black crapping out is higher, but this will be masked by Scoot having consistent high numbers for a bad team that will mask the fact that he's a big reason the team is bad. I also don't think Scoot is that great of an athlete or Black is that bad of one. Black is just much more deliberate and controlled in his actions, very pacey, a hard thing to learn.

So honestly I think I'm pulling more for Bufkin. I think the risks with Black purely on the 'we already have Sochan' level are pretty high. They're honestly doing a lot of the same things and have the same problems. I'm not sold on Bufkin as a slam dunk, but think he's very underrated, although that's changing.

[rascal]

I'm also uncertain about Anthony Black and at this point would prolly take Kobe Bufkin at a lower price point. Black's slow release does scare me, and I think by getting him you project having him and Sochan on the same starting unit eventually. I think they can be twin terrors on defense and they see the floor similarly, but neither will be a great shooter nor a volume shooter. Meanwhile, Bufkin has no real weaknesses. Maybe a jack-of-all trades, no elite skills problem? While he's not a pure point, once he took more of the team reins next to Dickerson he was really showing out, esp. in his shooting numbers.

Scoot vs. Black

To me, a no contest, however. I take Black every time for this team. The combination of playmaking, defense, and processing is very high. He's a very smart player. Scoot has high attributes and more 'star' quality. But he's high usage, small, not a good defender, and will need the ball to make plays. Black's first response to what he wants to give a team is "I want to make my teammates better." Scoot wants to be the man, he wants to be the star. I think the likelihood of Black crapping out is higher, but this will be masked by Scoot having consistent high numbers for a bad team that will mask the fact that he's a big reason the team is bad. I also don't think Scoot is that great of an athlete or Black is that bad of one. Black is just much more deliberate and controlled in his actions, very pacey, a hard thing to learn.

So honestly I think I'm pulling more for Bufkin. I think the risks with Black purely on the 'we already have Sochan' level are pretty high. They're honestly doing a lot of the same things and have the same problems. I'm not sold on Bufkin as a slam dunk, but think he's very underrated, although that's changing.

Agree with you on Bufkin but not on Scoot. I take Scoot every time. I'm confident in Scoot's shot and he's a more explosive and quicker player and a better passer. Had double the assits as Black although Black is not a bad passer, I'm not saying that.

Black is just slower than Scoot in gettting to the basket. He can get away with it in college but quickness is more important in the NBA.

Scoot has far more potential and I like the offense will sometimes go through him as you can't put all the offense as the only go to scorer on Wemby all the time. Wemby is going to need another go to offensive scorer to take the focus off him at times.

[Mr. Body]

Agree with you on Bufkin but not on Scoot. I take Scoot every time. I'm confident in Scoot's shot and he's a more explosive and quicker player and a better passer. Had double the assits as Black although Black is not a bad passer, I'm not saying that.

Black is just slower than Scoot in gettting to the basket. He can get away with it in college but quickness is more important in the NBA.

Scoot has far more potential and I like the offense will sometimes go through him as you can't put all the offense as the only go to scorer on Wemby all the time. Wemby is going to need another go to offensive scorer to take the focus off him at times.

I have no interest in Henderson whatsoever. I would have taken him if we had to, maybe. He's this generation's John Wall or similar. He'll make tons and tons of money and then become one of the worst contracts in the league and never actually do anything.

[Mr. Body]

Anyway, I posted this a while back. Some interesting coaches' takes on various players. You can read between the lines, or not even have to, on some of these guys.

https://www.on3.com/news/nba-draft-college-coaches-candid-scouting-reports-on-first-round-draft-picks/

A Big 10 coach: “An aggressive driver. Good in the ball screen and dribble handoff actions, and we had to make him work. He needed to see bodies, and we forced him into tough twos. He is a better shooter than the numbers show and more explosive downhill. Really impressed with the jump he made this year after a relatively quiet freshman year.”

A Big 10 coach: “A dynamic guard with great length, capable of going on big scoring runs. Very good in transition and finishing. Want to make his touches hard and be physical with his drives. He cooked us and made some very tough shots. I would say you have to limit the looks from three and, be physical, try to support early in the gaps on penetration.

A Big 10 coach: “He was a complete combo guard. He would have been an 18-19 point guy easily if Hunter (Dickinson) was not the first option and a lot of sets were run for Jett (Howard). I think he’s a lottery talent.”

That's the stuff on Bufkin. Basically, teams were forced to gameplan Bufkin on screens and DHOs or else he'd make them pay. They had to either hedge with the screener's man or even pull help defenders into the area. With a guy like Wembanyama, that could be lethal. I also like his toughness. Apparently he popped a dislocated finger back into place late in one game, sank his free throws, and then hit two threes.

[JPB]

If PATFO really like someone who's obtainable in 20-25 range, it should be fairly easy to move up with 33 and a couple more second round picks.

Well, no.

[JPB]

As long as Dick doesn't shrink in big moments, we need him to score from deep.

Don't worry, Dick showed a lot of mobility and verticality at the combine.

[JPB]

I have no interest in Henderson whatsoever. I would have taken him if we had to, maybe. He's this generation's John Wall or similar. He'll make tons and tons of money and then become one of the worst contracts in the league and never actually do anything.

I also see some Westbrook in Henderson. An athletic, energetic PG who will never really get the concept of team ball.

[mo7888]

I don't see the fascination with Anthony Black. Mr. Body says Scoot can't shoot but Black is even worse.

Black's game looks slow to me, a better college player than an NBA player. Outside of Miller will be the biggest bust inside the top ten.

Rather have Bufkin or Jalen Hood-Shifino at a lower cost.

Black is a safe pick. I don't think there's much of a chance that he busts(insert Gradey Dick joke here), bit I also don't think there's much of a chance that he lives up to what's expected of a top 10 pick. He should be a solid player though. I'd rather go for a bit higher of a ceiling if we go for a PG/SG archetype.

[Ariel]

yep. as a reminder

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-big-board-final-2022-nba-draft/
Yeah, nice reminder. I was truly depressed with the talk about Dieng or Mark Williams being the targets at 9, which made the actual picks that much more exciting (was pro Sochan, all along).

[Mr. Body]

Black is a safe pick. I don't think there's much of a chance that he busts(insert Gradey Dick joke here), bit I also don't think there's much of a chance that he lives up to what's expected of a top 10 pick. He should be a solid player though. I'd rather go for a bit higher of a ceiling if we go for a PG/SG archetype.

Black is a guy who will be deep in the playoffs some years from now and getting 'oh shit' steals and making those sorts of plays. But if he gets on Washington or another team with a listless, iso system and no good players, he'll be pointless.

[Ditty]

Black (Not Dick :p) is the only player I would give up Toronto’s, multiple seconds and one of Atlanta’s picks for.

[Russ]

I can see the Spurs targeting Jaquez and slot him in a Manu role.

He has the proper amount of vowels in his name but he lacks everything else.

[scott]

Black is a guy who will be deep in the playoffs some years from now and getting 'oh shit' steals and making those sorts of plays. But if he gets on Washington or another team with a listless, iso system and no good players, he'll be pointless.

I made this comment a few months ago... but we continue to dive deeper and deeper into basically just describing Derrick White every time we talk about Anthony Black. While Derrick White doesn't jump out immediately as a guy you want to spend a Top 10 pick on (because you are swinging for deeper fences), getting Derrick White around the 8th-10th pick would be a much better outcome than most teams get out of that pick.

[baseline bum]

Don't worry, Dick showed a lot of mobility and verticality at the combine.

Should try trade for a couple of picks, think how ruthless the Black Dick double team would be down low.

[Mr. Body]

I made this comment a few months ago... but we continue to dive deeper and deeper into basically just describing Derrick White every time we talk about Anthony Black. While Derrick White doesn't jump out immediately as a guy you want to spend a Top 10 pick on (because you are swinging for deeper fences), getting Derrick White around the 8th-10th pick would be a much better outcome than most teams get out of that pick.

Derrick was days away from turning 23 on his draft day. If he was younger at those stats, he would have gone higher.

It's not simply a matter of Black and White.

[scott]

Derrick was days away from turning 23 on his draft day. If he was younger at those stats, he would have gone higher.

It's not simply a matter of Black and White.

I think it's a great example, however, of how age is an overrated factor. If you draft Black at #8 and he has what amounts to exactly Derrick White's career... you should probably be pretty happy. (For comparison, here are a list of #8 picks: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/8th-overall-draft-picks-nba there are some obvious ones that exceeded Derrick's career, but a lot who don't even sniff it). Who cares if he is 19 or 23? Not ever 19 year old has hidden undiscovered potential... sometimes they are just the shitty basketball player they are at 19 :lol

[The Truth #6]

Not sure if it’s kosher to move on from the pun-gasim on page 1, but anyway I’ll be first in the raza line to get a Jaime Jaquez jersey.

Don’t underrate how big a deal that would be


It could be like how Utah has to draft white players. I’m down.

[exstatic]

:nerd Anthony Black is #3 on the big board and Cason Wallace is #7. Kobe Bufkin is #8. They are contrasted with the “high-risk, high-reward” prospects like Amen Thompson.

While timvp says there is no realistic trade to get Scoot Henderson, he is silent on that point for the other guys.

:elephant:elephant

I don’t think he believes that Black will be picked 3rd. That’s not what a big board is. This is how he ranks Spurs trade interest. It would be very hard to get pick 3, but if you insert scoot at two, and go through the usual VW, Scoot, Miller, Amen, Ausar,Cam,Jarace top of the draft, that makes Black #7 or later. That’s a pick that’s gettable.

[MultiTroll]

Getting in late here.

Can Dick work around the rim or are his penetration skills limited?

[scott]

If we're talking about work ethic, no one goes at it harder than Dick.

[Extra Stout]

I don’t think he believes that Black will be picked 3rd. That’s not what a big board is. This is how he ranks Spurs trade interest. It would be very hard to get pick 3, but if you insert scoot at two, and go through the usual VW, Scoot, Miller, Amen, Ausar,Cam,Jarace top of the draft, that makes Black #7 or later. That’s a pick that’s gettable.
Thank you Captain Obvious

[Mr. Body]

If we're talking about work ethic, no one goes at it harder than Dick.

He's terrible working out. Two pumps and he's done.

[Degoat]

Could we bring Primo back if we got Dick?

[KobesAchilles]

What about Cason Wallace? He seems solid

[Russ]

At first, I was down on this crude discussion.

But after seeing the level of subsequent basketball analysis, I say go back to it guys. :lol

[Chinook]

I really don't think the Spurs will turn into their 2008 selves just because they got Wemby. Wemby is not Duncan. He's not likely to be an MVP out-of-the-box player. He might bust. If it made sense to go for potential before the lottery, it makes sense now.

I also hope and believe that the Spurs don't think about development in this way. Yes, some guys are more finished than others. Upside is a real thing. But it's not the case that players with higher upside have to have lower floors. Kawhi is a HoFer with a extremely high floor who went in the middle of the round. The Spurs screwed the pooch with Primo, but both Vassell and Sochan were players who had seemingly useful floors but who still show a lot of upside. I would liken Ausar in that boat, since his defensive ability and athleticism should translate. Even so, I don't think the Spurs should look at players like they're scratch-off tickets. There's not a "30 percent chance Player X lives up to his potential". That logic is made up. Instead, there's a roadmap a given player has to develop skills and physical traits to improve, and a team has to factor in both the player's willingness to put in the work and their own ability to provide the instruction and resources for the player to move along that roadmap.

So it's okay if the Spurs pass on Amen because they don't think they can fix his shot. It's okay if they think Black can provide them more value than Ausar. Those are definitely the types of considerations that go into a draft board. But they're not actually quantifiable conditions, and trying to put a number to them in a desire to add an air of objectivity doesn't all of the sudden make real people behave like a RNGs. If the Spurs thought they and a prospect could work together on a roadmap that would make that player a useful asset to their team before they won the lottery, they shouldn't all of the sudden not believe that.

Ultimately, all of these evaluations fit into the wider concept of BPA, and most of the factors shouldn't be any different now. There are examples for the opposite, sure. Drafting a player like Wemby can definitely alter the board given that they'd be taking a guy at a position where they already took a player last year. Trading up for yet another PF would be weird (so like downgrading Miller totally makes sense even if he might be downgraded a bit too much). But if there are players that the Spurs would've felt comfortable taking at three or later, they should still have the same grade, and most of them should still be right where they were on the board.

[Russ]

So it's okay if the Spurs pass on Amen because they don't think they can fix his shot.

With all due respect . . .

In what world is this a question?

[Chinook]

With all due respect . . .

In what world is this a question?

None? That's not a question. If you mean if it's a question whether Amen's shot is fixable, I don't know. I do believe a lot of posters have said it's heavily broken. My point wasn't about Amen specifically but more about the types considerations that should go into handicapping prospects.

EDIT: And insert "Dick" pun here.

[Cry Havoc]

I do wonder about how the drafting of Wemby will affect San Antonio's chances with other high end role players or stars to come to Texas and play ball with Pop & Co. There's gotta be a LOT of young players eyeballing the experience the Spurs can put together with the talent they already had before drafting Wemby. This team may not need a ton of vets on the court to make a huge impact given the mentoring they're going to be getting.

A most interesting couple of off-seasons is in store for the Spurs.

[Extra Stout]

I do wonder about how the drafting of Wemby will affect San Antonio's chances with other high end role players or stars to come to Texas and play ball with Pop & Co. There's gotta be a LOT of young players eyeballing the experience the Spurs can put together with the talent they already had before drafting Wemby. This team may not need a ton of vets on the court to make a huge impact given the mentoring they're going to be getting.

A most interesting couple of off-seasons is in store for the Spurs.
Not sure why Wemby is going to attract FA’s when Duncan rarely could.

[Degoat]

Not sure why Wemby is going to attract FA’s when Duncan rarely could.

I agree with Cry Havoc’s thought on potential free agents coming. It’s a different era now vs when Duncan was around, guys are always looking to jump to the next big thing and Wemby just might be the next big thing

[Cry Havoc]

Not sure why Wemby is going to attract FA’s when Duncan rarely could.

Duncan's prime was well before the advent of modern media and places like reddit where highlights get posted ad nauseam.

And we watched Duncan his entire career. Flash wasn't part of his personality or his play, and that kind of thing can definitely draw crowds and glamour to a team.

Plus, I think it's pretty clear he's already getting much more of a media buy-in and push than Duncan ever got as a player. The hype around him is immense.

[baseline bum]

If we're talking about work ethic, no one goes at it harder than Dick.

Yeah but in measurements Dick was a couple inches shorter than everyone expected, gonna be tough for him to finish at the rim.

[Vic Petro]

Podziemiski too low imo

[baseline bum]

Not sure why Wemby is going to attract FA’s when Duncan rarely could.

Gotta hope a lot of that was players wondering how they'd get the ball with Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili already established. Still, the team would have gotten Kidd in 03 if it wasn't for his wife's crappy TV career.

[spursparker9]

I think Dick is tough. If Dick get injured, I hope that Dick continue to penetrate or shoot from deep.

People would think Dick is soft if we put him in the injury list.

[Obstructed_View]

Should try trade for a couple of picks, think how ruthless the Black Dick double team would be down low.
Black Dick 2023: Primo not included.

[kobyz]

Isn't Bufkin overlap with Branham? Too similar?

[Russ]

Podziemiski too low imo

He'd look good at 33.

[objective]

I really like Andre Jackson in the second round even though I'm not optimistic about his chances for an NBA career.

His shooting and form are so trash. Ben Simmons level awful.

But athleticism and making impact plays on defense is very fun to watch. Stick him in the gleague and see if he can rebuild his revolting shooting. Unlikely considering his age, but might be worth the attempt

[Bruno]

Drafting the BPA might seem like a good idea but if this player is caught in a logjam or if he doesn't fit with the rest of the roster, he won't develop properly and will likely never reach his upside. For example, if Spurs draft a averaged size wing, he will have to fight with KJ, Vassell and Branham for playing time.

Regarding Spurs roster, a forward with some shooting and, of course, a point guard are the safest bet of players who can pan out with the rest of the team.
If Spurs don't get another first round pick, I quite like Marcus Sasser at #33.

[spurraider21]

Yeah but in measurements Dick was a couple inches shorter than everyone expected, gonna be tough for him to finish at the rim.
:lol jesus

[Big Empty]

Yeah but in measurements Dick was a couple inches shorter than everyone expected, gonna be tough for him to finish at the rim.
Black & Dick didnt do the combine this year so we really dont the measurements.

[Robz4000]

:lol this thread is some prime ST tbh; not too hard but just enough to really get in your feels.

[Rocalcio]

Nice

:lol

[CGD]

Podziemiski too low imo

Hmm, I think he’s right where he should be. Good shooter but if you look closely his release is slow, which isn’t great when you have a negative wingspan.

[Dex]

Buncha Dicks in this thread.

[Big Empty]

I dont see the Spurs spending alot of FRPs to try to move up, unless there is someone they are salivating to see play next to Wemby. That would be Scoot. That isnt happening too expensive for unproven hype. I see the Spurs playing a full young healthy roster next to Wemby to see who fits and if there has been improvement in development. It gives the Spurs a glimpse on if Wemby really can become a star in this league and to also see who compliments him that is already here on the Spurs. Next summer after we’ve had a chance to see how our current roster performs is when the Spurs will become aggressive. If we donf make the playoffs we still have a lottery pick and another FRP. We can continue to draft talent, if Wemby was able to lead us to the playoffs I can see the Spurs trading some picks to bring in a young established player to help us get even further into the playoffs. I think this is the best strategy the front office should take and probably are. We got our guy and we got a shit load of picks and cap space to set oitselves up for the next 10 years

[Seventyniner]

EDIT: And insert "Dick" pun here.

Interesting that you put that at the rear end of your post.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Extra Stout]

I’ve come around on this. Previously I thought the Spurs were fine with Tre Jones, would run it back, go 32-50, and make another lottery pick next year to find a second star. Now I think they see a draft heavy with high-quality point-guard prospects, and have figured out what they’re willing to pay from their stash of future draft assets to get one of them.

[Degoat]

I know we still have 19 days until the draft but it is curious we usually hear more about guys the spurs bring in, not everyone but more than we have so far.

[JuneJive]

Unpopular opinion: they won't draft a PG.

I'm pretty sure of it.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXpbQiH5-GU

[Chinook]

Unpopular opinion: they won't draft a PG.

I'm pretty sure of it.

I don't think that's unpopular. The Spurs probably like Jones and believe in Wesley. If they don't move up, they aren't all that likely to get a better PG prospect. I think there are some that could be there, but most of us were speculating whom we'd want if the team were to trade up. As to whether the Spurs would want to move up for a PG or another position, I think it's up in the air. They do still seem to be interviewing guards, but they could be due diligence or misdirection. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a wing or an offensive forward (but one who could definitely play SF full time if need be). While I don't think a center is likely going to be a trade-up situation, they have two seconds and could definitely use one on another center for a two-way spot.

[Mr. Body]

Isn't Bufkin overlap with Branham? Too similar?

Really pretty different guards.

[heyheymymy]

If Grady Dick swats your shot is that a cock block?

[heyheymymy]

Remember when who was it Minny took OJ Mayo in the draft who sucked because they didn't want Rudy Gay and Kevin Love on the same roster

[Obstructed_View]

Unpopular opinion: they won't draft a PG.

I'm pretty sure of it.
In think you are right, but don't know if it's unpopular. If the Spurs want a path to upgrade at PG it wont be via the draft because those guys will be at an unattainably high pick.

[BatManu20]

Unpopular opinion: they won't draft a PG.

I'm pretty sure of it.

Prob not considering the cost it would take to move back into the lottery. And I don’t think the Spurs have much interest in Sasser at 33 tbh.

[BatManu20]

Another prospect who’s shooting up draft boards after a great combine showing is this kid O-Max. Grown man’s body at 6’9 230 lbs. with a 7’1 wingspan. Turns 21 next month. Defense is his calling card, but also excels at getting to the basket.

Shot 34% from 3 last season, up from 16% his Freshman year, so he’s a quickly improving 3-point shooter with good form on his shot. Could be a great 3&D prospect down the line tbh, maybe more than that with his ability to get to the cup. Not sure he’ll be available at 33 after being one of the top performers at the combine/his Pro-Day, but if the Spurs stay there and he’s available, I expect them to seriously consider him tbh. A lot of upside with this kid.


1662078667533733888

303Nuq6rDfU

[Obstructed_View]

I know we still have 19 days until the draft but it is curious we usually hear more about guys the spurs bring in, not everyone but more than we have so far.
Historically the Spurs put out information to try to misdirect other teams. Maybe they realize nobody will believe them.

[heyheymymy]

damn O-Max is one of the coolest monikers I've seen in a while

[JPB]

What about Cason Wallace? He seems solid

Dick can be solid too.

[Joseph Kony]

I know we still have 19 days until the draft but it is curious we usually hear more about guys the spurs bring in, not everyone but more than we have so far.
probably because they have the #1 pick so there is a lot less to speculate about this time tbh

[JPB]

I really don't think the Spurs will turn into their 2008 selves just because they got Wemby. Wemby is not Duncan. He's not likely to be an MVP out-of-the-box player. He might bust. If it made sense to go for potential before the lottery, it makes sense now.

I also hope and believe that the Spurs don't think about development in this way. Yes, some guys are more finished than others. Upside is a real thing. But it's not the case that players with higher upside have to have lower floors. Kawhi is a HoFer with a extremely high floor who went in the middle of the round. The Spurs screwed the pooch with Primo, but both Vassell and Sochan were players who had seemingly useful floors but who still show a lot of upside. I would liken Ausar in that boat, since his defensive ability and athleticism should translate. Even so, I don't think the Spurs should look at players like they're scratch-off tickets. There's not a "30 percent chance Player X lives up to his potential". That logic is made up. Instead, there's a roadmap a given player has to develop skills and physical traits to improve, and a team has to factor in both the player's willingness to put in the work and their own ability to provide the instruction and resources for the player to move along that roadmap.

So it's okay if the Spurs pass on Amen because they don't think they can fix his shot. It's okay if they think Black can provide them more value than Ausar. Those are definitely the types of considerations that go into a draft board. But they're not actually quantifiable conditions, and trying to put a number to them in a desire to add an air of objectivity doesn't all of the sudden make real people behave like a RNGs. If the Spurs thought they and a prospect could work together on a roadmap that would make that player a useful asset to their team before they won the lottery, they shouldn't all of the sudden not believe that.

Ultimately, all of these evaluations fit into the wider concept of BPA, and most of the factors shouldn't be any different now. There are examples for the opposite, sure. Drafting a player like Wemby can definitely alter the board given that they'd be taking a guy at a position where they already took a player last year. Trading up for yet another PF would be weird (so like downgrading Miller totally makes sense even if he might be downgraded a bit too much). But if there are players that the Spurs would've felt comfortable taking at three or later, they should still have the same grade, and most of them should still be right where they were on the board.

There's no way Wemby can bust for me. His defense only will do it, and when you see his handles, moves and shooting touch, there's absolutley no way he can bust. the question imo is will he just be an HOFer or a Mount Rushmore player.

[BatManu20]

Only way Wemby “busts” imo is injuries, but that is a legitimate concern with him tbh. You just don’t see guys his size have long careers in the NBA. Rarely if ever. I can only think of a couple guys who were 7’4+ who played well into their 30’s, and that was Mark Eaton and Rick Smits. And they were both big, slow lumbering guys, nothing like Wemby who is frail and puts more pressure on his joints by playing like a Guard. He’s already dealt with some foot injuries in the past and I read he’s dealing with some back pain right now during the tournament he’s playing in. Not stuff you wanna hear from a 19 year-old. I know he was pretty durable this past season, which is great. And he takes great care of his body/feet with his trainers, which is also great and necessary, but sometimes it doesn’t matter. Big guys just don’t age well often times. We’ve seen it with so many players over the years. Hopefully Wemby doesn’t fall into that category, cause that would be a shame. This kid and potential to be the face of the league one day if he can stay healthy.

[BatManu20]

Obv Kareem was 7’3 and played til he was 41. That’s the dream scenario for Wemby, who has a similar build. But that’s extremely rare for a player that size.

[mikec]

I fear Dick is the type to shaft us and shrivel in prime time, especially if we need a release from the pressure. The warts on Dick will show in due time.

[wildbill2u]

Could we bring Primo back if we got Dick?

So we'd have a Primo Dick lineup???

[kobyz]

Really pretty different guards.
Both are midrange shooter guards with hope to develop an ability to play minutes at the one position...

[Mr. Body]

Both are midrange shooter guards with hope to develop an ability to play minutes at the one position...

Not really.

[NickiRasgo]

Old video but Scoot securing that #1 spot. :spin Lucky it didn't end up serious.

1578110705835745280

[Ariel]

Another prospect who’s shooting up draft boards after a great combine showing is this kid O-Max. Grown man’s body at 6’9 230 lbs. with a 7’1 wingspan. Turns 21 next month. Defense is his calling card, but also excels at getting to the basket.

Shot 34% from 3 last season, up from 16% his Freshman year, so he’s a quickly improving 3-point shooter with good form on his shot. Could be a great 3&D prospect down the line tbh, maybe more than that with his ability to get to the cup. Not sure he’ll be available at 33 after being one of the top performers at the combine/his Pro-Day, but if the Spurs stay there and he’s available, I expect them to seriously consider him tbh. A lot of upside with this kid.


1662078667533733888

303Nuq6rDfU
He's NOT 6'9", he's 6' 6.75" without shoes. Still good, but those crazy hyped up measures need to get real.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro

[BatManu20]

He's NOT 6'9", he's 6' 6.75" without shoes. Still good, but those crazy hyped up measures need to get real.
https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-anthro

Okay so he’s 6’8 and change with shoes on. Close enough to 6’9 lol. Still a solid prospect with good upside, especially in ye late First or early Second Round.

[Obstructed_View]

Obv Kareem was 7’3 and played til he was 41. That’s the dream scenario for Wemby, who has a similar build. But that’s extremely rare for a player that size.
From what I've seen, Vic looks really strong for his build. I think the idea of putting bulk on him is a mistake. And after watching David Robinson's career, the health of his back is as critical as the health of his feet.

[dbestpro]

Johnson and their choice for a future 1st round pick for Orlando's 1st-round pick (number 6) and Suggs. Spurs draft, Walker.

[Mr. Body]

Johnson and their choice for a future 1st round pick for Orlando's 1st-round pick (number 6) and Suggs. Spurs draft, Walker.

Some dude on the Magic subreddit said the 6 and Gary Harris Jr. for Keldon. So it's done.

[Ditty]

Just saw Anthony Black path to the draft. Man, he seems like such a Spurs type of player. He’s from Dallas so he is showing a bit of love to Texas. Also he was playing FIFA for a bit and of course Sochan seems big on FIFA on Instagram (Future BFF’s?). I bet the Spurs would love their own Josh Giddey. I would give up at least both of our first round picks (Ours and Toronto) for him. I just don’t think teams will be more reluctant to help us now unless the Spurs overpay.


https://youtu.be/pDmmWFPREi4

[thiste]

Cason is from Dallas as well. I think both Black & Cason would be great pick ups, but Black's stock is on the rise and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked around 6-8. On the other hand Cason's stock seems to be falling a little bit, not for anything he did but because other guys are getting hyped up, like Bilal for example. I've seen Cason fall to around 15 in some recent mocks, that could become an interesting opportunity. So many good wings in this draft, let them have them. #BRINGONCASON

[TD 21]

Too many are abusing the relaxed guidelines to Dick around in this thread, it's time to get down to brass tacks . . .



Okay so he’s 6’8 and change with shoes on. Close enough to 6’9 lol. Still a solid prospect with good upside, especially in ye late First or early Second Round.

More like 6'7.75'' - 6'8''.

I've never understood why in basketball people act like adding inches is fine, but otherwise isn't. Like, if a 5'9'' or 5'10'' person claimed they were a 6-footer, they'd be taken to task, yet 6'9'' and 6'10'' guys (especially the long armed types) are regularly called 7-footers and people don't bat an eye.



Some dude on the Magic subreddit said the 6 and Gary Harris Jr. for Keldon. So it's done.

To Warriors: Isaac, Anthony

To Magic: Poole, Raptors '24 1st

To Spurs: 11th pick (Magic)

[CGD]

Too many are abusing the relaxed guidelines to Dick around in this thread, it's time to get down to brass tacks . . .




More like 6'7.75'' - 6'8''.

I've never understood why in basketball people act like adding inches is fine, but otherwise isn't. Like, if a 5'9'' or 5'10'' person claimed they were a 6-footer, they'd be taken to task, yet 6'9'' and 6'10'' guys (especially the long armed types) are regularly called 7-footers and people don't bat an eye.




To Warriors: Isaac, Anthony

To Magic: Poole, Raptors '24 1st

To Spurs: 11th pick (Magic)

Sounds like you are a 5’10” guy trying to pass as 6’ lol

[TD 21]

Sounds like you are a 5’10” guy trying to pass as 6’ lol

Nah, I'm significantly taller than either.

I've just seen/heard that many times.

[MultiTroll]

Could we bring Primo back if we got Dick?


So we'd have a Primo Dick lineup???
What if Lively is also acquired thru some maneuverings.

Primo Lively Dick going to require a return of the Spurs Dancers?

[Degoat]

People are gonna hate this but I love draft season and speculating on all of it lol I’m pretty sure I’ve read or maybe even heard in an interview that whenever the spurs work out guys sometimes they have current spurs participate with them and it’s usually the younger guys. With that being said I’ve been looking at all the prospects to see if any of our current spurs follow them on ST’s favorite social media platform Instagram . It’s probably nothing… But all three of Jeremy, Branham, and Wesley follow Keyonte George, (no other prospect is followed by all 3) It’s probably “NOTHING” but it’s fun to speculate.

[exstatic]

People are gonna hate this but I love draft season and speculating on all of it lol I’m pretty sure I’ve read or maybe even heard in an interview that whenever the spurs work out guys sometimes they have current spurs participate with them and it’s usually the younger guys. With that being said I’ve been looking at all the prospects to see if any of our current spurs follow them on ST’s favorite social media platform Instagram . It’s probably nothing… But all three of Jeremy, Branham, and Wesley follow Keyonte George, (no other prospect is followed by all 3) It’s probably “NOTHING” but it’s fun to speculate.

I think that’s actually forbidden by the CBA, to have undrafted players work out with NBA players.

[Degoat]

I think that’s actually forbidden by the CBA, to have undrafted players work out with NBA players.

It’s when a team brings in guys that they work out, they’re not just working out for the heck of it. I swear it was either Keldon or Derrick that talked about working out with one of the guys guys in their draft workout with the spurs.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

One thing I can predict with certainty is that the Spurs won't draft Miller.

And that's good. He strikes me as fvcking clueless, and not clutch, at all.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him slip with his questionable character. Dallas will probably end up with him if they don't change their draft position.

[BacktoBasics]

One thing I can predict with certainty is that the Spurs won't draft Miller.

And that's good. He strikes me as fvcking clueless, and not clutch, at all.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him slip with his questionable character. Dallas will probably end up with him if they don't change their draft position.
What a well thought out prediction. Certainly contrary to most takes here.

Miller at 10 huh?

[Brazil]

Bilal should be number one on that list tbh

[Brazil]

his off-ball movement is quite good

That was she said

[JPB]

One thing I can predict with certainty is that the Spurs won't draft Miller.

And that's good. He strikes me as fvcking clueless, and not clutch, at all.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him slip with his questionable character. Dallas will probably end up with him if they don't change their draft position.

Hum, most mock drafts have him at 2.

[John B]

I’m rooting for Anthony Black. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Brandin Podziemski. Dude is a 6’5 combo who is 44% shooting 3’s, a prolific scorer, very cunning around the basket, just a real good bball player. And he excelled at the Combined, where Spurs’ recent picks were.

Still I really hope the Spurs work hard to get a chance at Black. Damn Sochan/Black would be a menace defensively.

[heyheymymy]

Trying to score but Dick Floppy can't get the balls in good shooting position.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

What a well thought out prediction. Certainly contrary to most takes here.

Miller at 10 huh?

Maybe it's my perfect world prediction about Miller. I know character doesn't really matter anymore.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I’m rooting for Anthony Black. But I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Brandin Podziemski. Dude is a 6’5 combo who is 44% shooting 3’s, a prolific scorer, very cunning around the basket, just a real good bball player. And he excelled at the Combined, where Spurs’ recent picks were.

Still I really hope the Spurs work hard to get a chance at Black. Damn Sochan/Black would be a menace defensively.

I'd dig that as well.

[BacktoBasics]

Maybe it's my perfect world prediction about Miller. I know character doesn't really matter anymore.

You should read up on the what actually happened. Including the texts. We’ve all made questionable decisions in life but it’s clear by all the information that he had no knowledge of what was about to transpire. Hindsight is always 20/20. A few bad decisions shouldn’t equate to “character” problems. Especially with no history of past events. But I understand a young black athlete will be judged to a different standard.

He won’t fall past 5 and probably not past 4.

I’ll go on the record that I don’t believe he’ll have character issues in the league.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

You should read up on the what actually happened. Including the texts. We’ve all made questionable decisions in life but it’s clear by all the information that he had no knowledge of what was about to transpire. Hindsight is always 20/20. A few bad decisions shouldn’t equate to “character” problems. Especially with no history of past events. But I understand a young black athlete will be judged to a different standard.

He won’t fall past 5 and probably not past 4.

I’ll go on the record that I don’t believe he’ll have character issues in the league.


The "pat down" on the team intros, etc., after the incident were a little much, as well, considering the circumstances, and I'd have the same opinion if he were white. Character shouldn't be graded by the color of your skin. Maybe his coaches should have been in his ear, and I know he's young, but he seems to not think through the consequences of his actions very well and how this is just a bad look. If he were my son, or a player on my team, I'd tell him as much.

For me, I'm more concerned about his crappy NCAA tournament as anything off the court. His one chance to show he could carry a team in games that matter and he sucked. We'll see, but I'm not putting a high ceiling on this guy.

But I agree that he probably won't be a problem child in the league. The nice thing is that these guys are incredibly young and he's got time to mature and figure it out.

[BacktoBasics]

The "pat down" on the team intros, etc., after the incident were a little much, as well, considering the circumstances, and I'd have the same opinion if he were white. Character shouldn't be graded by the color of your skin. Maybe his coaches should have been in his ear, and I know he's young, but he seems to not think through the consequences of his actions very well and how this is just a bad look. If he were my son, or a player on my team, I'd tell him as much.

For me, I'm more concerned about his crappy NCAA tournament as anything off the court. His one chance to show he could carry a team in games that matter and he sucked. We'll see, but I'm not putting a high ceiling on this guy.

But I agree that he probably won't be a problem child in the league. The nice thing is that these guys are incredibly young and he's got time to mature and figure it out.

I agree on the pregame routine. Tone deaf for sure. Definitely speaks to team culture as well. No one thought to say anything to him about that routine. He’d been doing it all season. He should have thought twice and someone should have said something to him.

I’m not concerned with his tourney. He was under death threats and his team played like dogshit.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Hum, most mock drafts have him at 2.

Yeah...Charlotte. MJ's drafting history...I could see it. If he slips past 2 let's see if I'm right...as mentioned to B2B, I'm probably short-sighted in thinking character really matters these days. But that and his poor NCAA tournament wouldn't give me warm and fuzzy feelings if I'm looking at him top 5.

And, I could be wrong about him and he might own the league someday. At least he won't be a Spur.

[heyheymymy]

ESPN: 2023 NBA mock draft: Best fit vs. best available for the first round


https://archive.ph/q8HtG

[DAF86]

I don't get SpursTalk fascination with Anthony Black. That shot is putrid, I see no chance of fixing that. The last thing we need is another guard/perimeter player that can't shoot/score.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't get SpursTalk fascination with Anthony Black. That shot is putrid, I see no chance of fixing that. The last thing we need is another guard/perimeter player that can't shoot/score.

I don’t look at Black through scoring goggles. You should look at Black the same way many here view Sochan. He’s that kinda player

[Mr. Body]

I don't get SpursTalk fascination with Anthony Black. That shot is putrid, I see no chance of fixing that. The last thing we need is another guard/perimeter player that can't shoot/score.

It's not as completely broken as Amen's or Ausar's. Not even close.

I mean, it's been said a thousand times: very good perimeter on-ball defense, incredible help defense potential, much bigger and stronger than most guards, strong sense of pace, draws fouls at a high rate, high end ability to manipulate defenses, notably fast processing on both ends of the floor, very high BBIQ, high intangibles, makes plays on both ends of the court.

I don't know where I place him, but ignoring the above is senseless.

[BatManu20]

1666134449149423627

[JPB]

You should read up on the what actually happened. Including the texts. We’ve all made questionable decisions in life but it’s clear by all the information that he had no knowledge of what was about to transpire. Hindsight is always 20/20. A few bad decisions shouldn’t equate to “character” problems. Especially with no history of past events. But I understand a young black athlete will be judged to a different standard.

He won’t fall past 5 and probably not past 4.

I’ll go on the record that I don’t believe he’ll have character issues in the league.

We're not gonna take that road again but at the end of the day, whether or not he knew why, and no matter how his laweyrs presented the incident, he still brought a fucking gun to some place to a pal who asked him to and where a young woman died... I don't know how many people on this board found themselves in that situation at 20. And who is fucking clueless enough just to obey like a good boy and not ask themselves why? At best you look like dumb wannabe gangsta beta.

Would you bring a gun to a friend to some place who asked you to? Who keeps their buddies' guns home anyway ? This isn't like, "Oops, I better be careful who I'm hanging around with, I've learned my lesson, I won't hold and give guns to my buddies from now on, without asking why...!" Ja morant written all over him. And not need to make everything a question of race. he could be white, green or orange that I wouldn't change a single word.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1666134449149423627

[TrainOfThought5]

Trading up for Anthony Black would be the best thing we could do to pair with Wembenyama. Whatever it takes. He’ll get a great floater and good 3 point shot by year 3 to go with his “A” skills in other areas.

[BacktoBasics]

We're not gonna take that road again but at the end of the day, whether or not he knew why, and no matter how his laweyrs presented the incident, he still brought a fucking gun to some place to a pal who asked him to and where a young woman died... I don't know how many people on this board found themselves in that situation at 20. And who is fucking clueless enough just to obey like a good boy and not ask themselves why? At best you look like dumb wannabe gangsta beta.

Would you bring a gun to a friend to some place who asked you to? Who keeps their buddies' guns home anyway ? This isn't like, "Oops, I better be careful who I'm hanging around with, I've learned my lesson, I won't hold and give guns to my buddies from now on, without asking why...!" Ja morant written all over him. And not need to make everything a question of race. he could be white, green or orange that I wouldn't change a single word.

It’s a normalized practice to swap guns. Maga fucktards will tell you time and again that passing guns amongst friends is a as normal as passing chewing gum.

You want to hold yourself to a higher standard of respect for firearms I’ll applaud you and most certainly agree but I’m not going to demonize one person for doing something that a whole group of people have worked hard to legitimize.

We should have laws about exchanging guns like trading cards but we can’t get the right representation to accomplish that.

[rjv]

bringing a gun out late at night when alcohol is likely in the mix is beyond poor judgement and you don't have to be over 20 to know that.

[BacktoBasics]

bringing a gun out late at night when alcohol is likely in the mix is beyond poor judgement and you don't have to be over 20 to know that.

Conservatives say that there isn’t a curfew for having your gun out. In fact the later it gets at night the more these ammosexuals encourage you to be armed. They say you can conceal your weapon or wear it like a sash into a McDonalds. It also makes you look cool.

Miller operated like millions of other gun owners do every single day. He broke no laws. Wasn’t under the influence and had no knowledge that weapon would trade hands a second time.

The problem here isn’t Miller. The problem is gun culture that has opened the door and encouraged this behavior. Along with those that don’t speak out against that gun culture but choose to condemn and attack the character of our youth when they’re influenced by it.

Your issue is the law and gun nutters who have created a world that worships the gun while perverting the second amendment as it’s protector. They’re grooming people from a young age to look at a gun as something just as innocuous as a stick of gum.

[rjv]

Conservatives say that there isn’t a curfew for having your gun out. In fact the later it gets at night the more these ammosexuals encourage you to be armed. They say you can conceal your weapon or wear it like a sash into a McDonalds. It also makes you look cool.

Miller operated like millions of other gun owners do every single day. He broke no laws. Wasn’t under the influence and had no knowledge that weapon would trade hands a second time.

The problem here isn’t Miller. The problem is gun culture that has opened the door and encouraged this behavior and those that don’t speak out against that gun culture but choose to condemn and attack the character of our youth when they’re influenced by it.

Your issue is the law and gun nutters who have created a world where grooming people from a young age to look at a gun as something just as innocuous as a stick of gum.

ever since the police indicated that Miller was not a suspect, it was never a question of criminality. nor is it even a political issue. it's a question of judgement. and i hasten to make it a cultural issue (although the south is obsessed with guns) because it's a slippery slope and one that makes Blacks even more vulnerable to racist stereotyping.

[Big Empty]

Anthony black looks slow. Like a 6’7 fathead.

[DPG21920]

I want Cason Wallace pretty badly lol

[BacktoBasics]

ever since the police indicated that Miller was not a suspect, it was never a question of criminality. nor is it even a political issue. it's a question of judgement. and i hasten to make it a cultural issue (although the south is obsessed with guns) because it's a slippery slope and one that makes Blacks even more vulnerable to racist stereotyping.

Although I don’t disagree with you I’ll note that he made a “judgement” consistent with what this cultural raises our youth to find acceptable and normal.

When you raise people through the government and social promotion, glamorization and normalizing of guns we shouldn’t question their judgment but the judgment of those that have created the problem in the first place.

Miller treated his gun exactly how conservative gun humpers want guns to be treated.

Personally I think we should have a law restricting the transfer of guns outside of a range or hunting area. There’s no real accountability for gun ownership. But we’ve empowered horrible representation in this area.

[rjv]

Although I don’t disagree with you I’ll note that he made a “judgement” consistent with what this cultural raises our youth to find acceptable and normal.

When you raise people through the government and social promotion, glamorization and normalizing of guns we shouldn’t question their judgment but the judgment of those that have created the problem in the first place.

Miller treated his gun exactly how conservative gun humpers want guns to be treated.

Personally I think we should have a law restricting the transfer of guns outside of a range or hunting area. There’s no real accountability for gun ownership. But we’ve empowered horrible representation in this area.

agreed, and it sucks for young Black men, but there is a lot more at stake for them in this gun culture, on many levels. morant hasn't figured that out yet. i hope that miller does.

[SpursFan86]

I want Cason Wallace pretty badly lol

Apparently he pulled out of his remaining workouts…people thinking he got a promise from either Washington (#8) or Toronto (#13). Think he’d be such a good fit though.

[spurraider21]

I want Cason Wallace pretty badly lol
the reasons to like wallace and black are pretty similar tbh. i'd be pretty thrilled with either one. wallace comes in as the better shooter of the 2, but black imo is clearly the better passer/playmaker imo. they're both very good defensively. think pound for pound wallace is a better defender, but black's size gives him natural advantages. i think cason could defend most 1's and 2's, but i think black could switch onto even bigger players and hold up.

my preference is black just because i think you have a better chance of him improving as a shooter vs having wallace become a better pg.

while not perfect comps, its like marcus smart and josh giddey (if giddey was a very good defender)

[Extra Stout]

ever since the police indicated that Miller was not a suspect, it was never a question of criminality. nor is it even a political issue. it's a question of judgement. and i hasten to make it a cultural issue (although the south is obsessed with guns) because it's a slippery slope and one that makes Blacks even more vulnerable to racist stereotyping.
Black man lends someone else a gun: GANGSTER THUG
Shit-eating cousin-fucking cracker brandishes AR-15 at 9-year-old retrieving a soccer ball: PATRIOTIC VIGILANT HERO

[BacktoBasics]

the reasons to like wallace and black are pretty similar tbh. i'd be pretty thrilled with either one. wallace comes in as the better shooter of the 2, but black imo is clearly the better passer/playmaker imo. they're both very good defensively. think pound for pound wallace is a better defender, but black's size gives him natural advantages. i think cason could defend most 1's and 2's, but i think black could switch onto even bigger players and hold up.

my preference is black just because i think you have a better chance of him improving as a shooter vs having wallace become a better pg.

while not perfect comps, its like marcus smart and josh giddey (if giddey was a very good defender)

This is pretty much how I see it. You can’t teach certain things that Black has. He’s an intangibles kinda guy like Sochan. Like Jeremy, Black can influence a game in none statistical ways.

With the right coaching staff he can solve the jumper problem pretty quickly.

[SpursFan86]

the reasons to like wallace and black are pretty similar tbh. i'd be pretty thrilled with either one. wallace comes in as the better shooter of the 2, but black imo is clearly the better passer/playmaker imo. they're both very good defensively. think pound for pound wallace is a better defender, but black's size gives him natural advantages. i think cason could defend most 1's and 2's, but i think black could switch onto even bigger players and hold up.

my preference is black just because i think you have a better chance of him improving as a shooter vs having wallace become a better pg.

while not perfect comps, its like marcus smart and josh giddey (if giddey was a very good defender)

I think Black > Wallace in a vacuum is a pretty sure thing, but when you factor in the cost of moving up for both of them it becomes a much harder decision and I’d lean towards Wallace. Black seems to be creeping up boards and a lot of mocks now have him comfortably going in the 6-10 range. It’ll likely be pretty damn costly to move up that high…meanwhile getting Wallace in the 12-16 range seems much more feasible without giving up the farm.

[spurraider21]

I think Black > Wallace in a vacuum is a pretty sure thing, but when you factor in the cost of moving up for both of them it becomes a much harder decision and I’d lean towards Wallace. Black seems to be creeping up boards and a lot of mocks now have him comfortably going in the 6-10 range. It’ll likely be pretty damn costly to move up that high…meanwhile getting Wallace in the 12-16 range seems much more feasible without giving up the farm.
if you want bang for buck i'd like Bufkin at that point

[SpursFan86]

if you want bang for buck i'd like Bufkin at that point

I don’t disagree…Wallace and Bufkin are both of my “realistic dream” targets where it seems like they can be had for a reasonable price, especially if they fall into that 15-20 range. Would be ecstatic with either of them.

If Black does somehow fall into that 10-12 range though… :hungry:

[DAF86]

I don’t look at Black through scoring goggles. You should look at Black the same way many here view Sochan. He’s that kinda player

That's exactly the problem. You can live with one of those in your lineup. You can't with two.

[DAF86]

It's not as completely broken as Amen's or Ausar's. Not even close.

I mean, it's been said a thousand times: very good perimeter on-ball defense, incredible help defense potential, much bigger and stronger than most guards, strong sense of pace, draws fouls at a high rate, high end ability to manipulate defenses, notably fast processing on both ends of the floor, very high BBIQ, high intangibles, makes plays on both ends of the court.

I don't know where I place him, but ignoring the above is senseless.

I just don't see the fit with Wemby and Sochan.

[TD 21]

That's exactly the problem. You can live with one of those in your lineup. You can't with two.

Exactly. This is the last team that has any business expending significant assets for this archetype.

They need an advantage creator on the perimeter in the worst way. Either a dynamic pull-up three-point shooter or slasher/finisher with a high free throw rate.

[Obstructed_View]

Although I don’t disagree with you I’ll note that he made a “judgement” consistent with what this cultural raises our youth to find acceptable and normal.

When you raise people through the government and social promotion, glamorization and normalizing of guns we shouldn’t question their judgment but the judgment of those that have created the problem in the first place.

Miller treated his gun exactly how conservative gun humpers want guns to be treated.

Personally I think we should have a law restricting the transfer of guns outside of a range or hunting area. There’s no real accountability for gun ownership. But we’ve empowered horrible representation in this area.

Keep your political opinions to the political forum, please.

[Obstructed_View]

This is pretty much how I see it. You can’t teach certain things that Black has. He’s an intangibles kinda guy like Sochan. Like Jeremy, Black can influence a game in none statistical ways.

With the right coaching staff he can solve the jumper problem pretty quickly.
And to the previous point, I don't see Black and Scoot as the same player due to what you mention above. Given a choice between elite athleticism and elite basketball IQ one is justified in choosing IQ.

[BacktoBasics]

Keep your political opinions to the political forum, please.

Go fuck yourself. It’s pertinent to the discussion. I didn’t randomly inject politics. Facts matter.

[BacktoBasics]

Exactly. This is the last team that has any business expending significant assets for this archetype.

They need an advantage creator on the perimeter in the worst way. Either a dynamic pull-up three-point shooter or slasher/finisher with a high free throw rate.

I don’t look at Black as an offensive liability. That’s not to be dismissive of your point that we’d benefit from a dynamic pull up three point shooter. Black is a tremendous off ball player. He can slash and finishes well around the basket. He would fit just fine around Sochan.

Black will be okay offensively.

I’m not advocating to draft him because he’s a future number 1 scorer. I think he’d be a great fit and has a team first mentality.

[DAF86]

I don’t look at Black as an offensive liability. That’s not to be dismissive of your point that we’d benefit from a dynamic pull up three point shooter. Black is a tremendous off ball player. He can slash and finishes well around the basket. He would fit just fine around Sochan.

Black will be okay offensively.

I’m not advocating to draft him because he’s a future number 1 scorer. I think he’d be a great fit and has a team first mentality.

No, he wouldn't. There's only so much slashing, cutting and basketball IQ can do for you. At some point you gotta make shots.

I dread the thought of having Sochan and Black both killing the spacing for Wemby. If you can plan from scratch, why plan it with a huge shooting handicap from the get go?

[BacktoBasics]

No, he wouldn't. There's only so much slashing, cutting and basketball IQ can do for you. At some point you gotta make shots.

I dread the thought of having Sochan and Black both killing the spacing for Wemby. If you can plan from scratch, why plan it with a huge shooting handicap from the get go?
I don’t have the same fears you do. I don’t view him as an offensive liability. Black would work for this roster the same way Giddey would.

[DAF86]

I don’t have the same fears you do. I don’t view him as an offensive liability. Black would work for this roster the same way Giddey would.

Sure. While we are at it, we should sign Draymond too and play a lineup of Tre, Black, Sochan, Draymond and Wemby. All high IQ players, with great defense, playmaking and finishing. I'm sure it would work just fine.

[BacktoBasics]

Sure. While we are at it, we should sign Draymond too and play a lineup of Tre, Black, Sochan, Draymond and Wemby. All high IQ players, with great defense, playmaking and finishing. I'm sure it would work just fine.

You act as if one move lives in an all consuming vacuum. This team isn’t going to stop shaping the roster when the draft is over. Black has the kinda game that fits well with a bunch of types of rosters. He’s not the final piece or anything like that.

The Spurs are traditionally shrewd with draft picks. I don’t see them moving up anyway.

[spurraider21]

Sure. While we are at it, we should sign Draymond too and play a lineup of Tre, Black, Sochan, Draymond and Wemby. All high IQ players, with great defense, playmaking and finishing. I'm sure it would work just fine.
if wemby is the point guard here, where do Tre and black play, tbh?

[BackHome]

Before the Playoffs Wemby had around 80+ assists and 120+ turnovers sure you can make him a PG just would not be a good one. Lol

[bluebellmaniac]

if wemby is the point guard here, where do Tre and black play, tbh?

Center of course!

[Obstructed_View]

Go fuck yourself. It’s pertinent to the discussion. I didn’t randomly inject politics.

Your stupid bullshit has nothing to do with the discussion.


Facts matter.

Then you should learn the difference between them and opinions.

Plonk.

[Rocalcio]

That was she said

Jolie référence :clap

[rankingtear]

I don’t have the same fears you do. I don’t view him as an offensive liability. Black would work for this roster the same way Giddey would.

Giddey plays the 4 for OKC mostly, Giddey size and strength is being underrated. Him being able to play up is how he is working. Black is closer to Dyson who may not score enough to stick.

[exstatic]

Giddey plays the 4 for OKC mostly, Giddey size and strength is being underrated. Him being able to play up is how he is working. Black is closer to Dyson who may not score enough to stick.

You people, and your quaint and antiquated insistence on matching height to position.

Josh Giddey is OKC’s PG. End of story.

[Mr. Body]

Giddey plays the 4 for OKC mostly, Giddey size and strength is being underrated. Him being able to play up is how he is working. Black is closer to Dyson who may not score enough to stick.

???

[rankingtear]

You people, and your quaint and antiquated insistence on matching height to position.

Josh Giddey is OKC’s PG. End of story.

Who is the closest player to play 4 in OKC starting lineup then.

[BacktoBasics]

Your stupid bullshit has nothing to do with the discussion.



Then you should learn the difference between them and opinions.

Plonk.

I'm not going to fear adding relevant and pertinent information to the discussion because you want to be a little bitch about it. I notice you have no counter argument or point of your own. I don't appreciate political BS here in the main but if its relevant then its relevant. Gun culture is the problem. Its the very reason the gun exchanged hands and the very reason he had no accountability. Good luck with your thoughts and prayers.

[BacktoBasics]

Giddey plays the 4 for OKC mostly, Giddey size and strength is being underrated. Him being able to play up is how he is working. Black is closer to Dyson who may not score enough to stick.


You people, and your quaint and antiquated insistence on matching height to position.

Josh Giddey is OKC’s PG. End of story.Today's NBA is as positionless as ever. But I completely agree that Giddey runs the point. Regardless of where he matches up.

[Dejounte]

Who is the closest player to play 4 in OKC starting lineup then.
The problem with ex’s statement is he views positions as entirely the player’s role on offense. The problem with yours is that you only view positions only on defense. This is the whole black and white perspective on the world again, especially for ex. Giddey runs the offense like a point guard and is the player most capable of defending fours in OKC’s line-ups.

Rankingtear is correct in that Black doesn’t have that type of versatility

[rjv]

i'm just happy as fudge that we're not having a discussion about black being our one and only 1st rounder, as in if we had dropped to 7th in the lottery.

[baseline bum]

i'm just happy as fudge that we're not having a discussion about black being our one and only 1st rounder, as in if we had dropped to 7th in the lottery.

My worst case scenario was them getting #4 or #5 and taking one of the scrub league twins padding their resumes against 16 year-olds.

[rankingtear]

The problem with ex’s statement is he views positions as entirely the player’s role on offense. The problem with yours is that you only view positions only on defense. This is the whole black and white perspective on the world again, especially for ex. Giddey runs the offense like a point guard and is the player most capable of defending fours in OKC’s line-ups.

Rankingtear is correct in that Black doesn’t have that type of versatility

He probably the most frontcourt player on offense too among non center. The only "guard" who ranked top 30 off cuts. He initiates with his back to the basket like a PF. He leads the team in OREB. The only 3 players who post up beside SGA and another one. Probably runs all the actions reserved for a passing big man. Third most tip ins among "guards". Drive into a post up like Sochan, Scottie and other PF initiator.

If you had to pick a Power Forward in that position less thunder team it would be Giddey. Who does more 4 stuff on offense other than him?

[rankingtear]

Don't assume Giddey works on offense when the numbers say otherwise. The whole justification for Black is that Giddey works. He does not. Negative on/off on offense tops among the rotation players and the worst SGA two man lineup among top 6 in minutes. They actually won all 6 games he was out.

[Mr. Body]

Don't assume Giddey works on offense when the numbers say otherwise. The whole justification for Black is that Giddey works. He does not. Negative on/off on offense tops among the rotation players and the worst SGA two man lineup among top 6 in minutes. They actually won all 6 games he was out.

Giddey's problem is defense. With Chet it'll get better, but he's still not great. Black is much better there.

[rankingtear]

Giddey's problem is defense. With Chet it'll get better, but he's still not great. Black is much better there.

Apparently on offense too.

[Mr. Body]

Apparently on offense too.

No, I'd say Giddey is a much better facilitator at this point. He reads defenses and moves them around much better, but then he was a pro before he was even drafted. I think his mid-game is also much better.

[Obstructed_View]

My worst case scenario was them getting #4 or #5 and taking one of the scrub league twins padding their resumes against 16 year-olds.
This draft felt so deep, until you start drilling down to the potential weaknesses of the players. I was at the point where I thought the Spurs needed the first pick or the sixth or seventh, because you could get someone solid rather than having to swing for a boom/bust guy. I'm excited for Wemby, but I'm equally relieved.

[TD 21]

The Thunder are largely amorphous from 1-4 . . .

- Gilgeous-Alexander is their primary initiator and generally defends PG's, so I'd classify him as their nominal one.
- Giddey is their secondary initiator and primarily defends the four, so I'd classify him as a point forward.
- (Jalen) Williams is a tertiary initiator/3 and D type, who primarily defends wings.
- Dort is a 3ish and D type, who defends 1-4.

Interestingly they don't appear to think they need a starting caliber C to limit the amount of wear and tear on Holmgren.

[spurraider21]

The Thunder are largely amorphous from 1-4 . . .

- Gilgeous-Alexander is their primary initiator and generally defends PG's, so I'd classify him as their nominal one.
- Giddey is their secondary initiator and primarily defends the four, so I'd classify him as a point forward.
- (Jalen) Williams is a tertiary initiator/3 and D type, who primarily defends wings.
- Dort is a 3ish and D type, who defends 1-4.

Interestingly they don't appear to think they need a starting caliber C to limit the amount of wear and tear on Holmgren.
think dereck lively would be an awesome fit for them. would be a bit of an early spot for him though

[CGD]

Obv Kareem was 7’3 and played til he was 41. That’s the dream scenario for Wemby, who has a similar build. But that’s extremely rare for a player that size.

Wemby needs to become a yoga nut like Kareem

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I wouldn’t be mad if we drafted Bufkin as opposed to Wallace also. The guy from Santa Clara could be a good pick up in the lower first/ high second round also.

I honestly don’t think we are going to trade back into the 1st round of this draft, but I kinda like the speculation of us doing so.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I'm not going to fear adding relevant and pertinent information to the discussion because you want to be a little bitch about it. I notice you have no counter argument or point of your own. I don't appreciate political BS here in the main but if its relevant then its relevant. Gun culture is the problem. Its the very reason the gun exchanged hands and the very reason he had no accountability. Good luck with your thoughts and prayers.

I could’ve sworn the gun was his friends gun and he left it in the car. Miller went to go pick up the guy and the dude said don’t forget his weapon because he left it in the car by mistake.

I think a decent portion of folks commenting on this are making up false narratives about the situation. Either way it’s a bad look for Miller, but it wasn’t like a lot of folks are painting it to be.

[rjv]

I could’ve sworn the gun was his friends gun and he left it in the car. Miller went to go pick up the guy and the dude said don’t forget his weapon because he left it in the car by mistake.

I think a decent portion of folks commenting on this are making up false narratives about the situation. Either way it’s a bad look for Miller, but it wasn’t like a lot of folks are painting it to be.

what worsened it for miller was the staged pregame ritual where he had a teammate pat him down. in light of how a family was dealing with the loss of a daughter, it was a very, very bad look. i'm just glad that it's not a spurs problem anymore and i hope that miller grows from this.

[exstatic]

what worsened it for miller was the staged pregame ritual where he had a teammate pat him down. in light of how a family was dealing with the loss of a daughter, it was a very, very bad look. i'm just glad that it's not a spurs problem anymore and i hope that miller grows from this.

Not to mention the letter from his lawyers saying that he couldn't talk about it during team interviews.

[Big Empty]

Van Vleet just opted out, hes an unrestricted free agent.