Latest Intel as Spurs Head into the Victor Wembanyama Draft

[exstatic]

Depending on where they would have to trade to to get him and the price, I wouldn't hate Wallace at all. He's that Conley/Jrue mold where they're good defenders, good distributors, good shooters, but low friction, not needing a ton of usage.

[kace]

I remember from back in the Manu Tony days of international ball, that they only way they can stop him is if he's injured. The league wants the international exposure, and I believe it's in the CBA.

well, players skip international competitions with their national teams each summer. these rules should not be so difficult to bend....

[exstatic]

well, players skip international competitions with their national teams each summer. these rules should not be so difficult to bend....

Maybe I wasn't completely clear. Players can skip anything they want. Teams cannot prohibit them from going.

[spurraider21]

I've heard Mavericks targeting Capela and a Dal/Atl swap.
not a bad idea for either team. dallas needs the defensive presence, and ATL has to start becoming salary conscious. they probably want okongwu to take over at C anyway

[Mugen]

Cason Wallace is a nice option as well. One of Bufkin/Black/Wallace will definitely drop into that 10-17 range where I think it'll make sense for the FO to move up tbh.

[spurraider21]

The fact we haven’t heard anything about Cason Wallace makes me think he might be the guy the Spurs are targeting to move up for tbh :lol. Or even Jalen Hood-Schifino. Guys we haven’t heard connected to us at all so far.

Either could be good gets imo. Wallace seems like the perfect type of Spurs player. High-character and not real flashy. Just a strong, hard-nosed defender with a good feel for the game and who plays the right way. One of the best perimeter defenders in the Draft and has that Kentucky pedigree. Could easily see the Spurs liking him tbh.
honestly love this crop of PGs. they're all solid defenders with good size. they dont have complete games, but the spurs dont really need their PG to be a "take the game over" type of guy anyway.

i have my preferences, but wouldnt be mad with any of the bigger names. i dont think black is a feasible target even though he's my favorite, but any of wallace/bufkin/hood-schifino is fine by me. though if we do go the rookie PG route, then it makes a ton of sense to re-sign Tre as the steadying hand. if we go the veteran route like CP3 (or ugh, vanvleet), then its not as important to re-sign Tre

[kace]

Maybe I wasn't completely clear. Players can skip anything they want. Teams cannot prohibit them from going.

well, yes but i believe that the franchises that pay huuuuuge salaries to these guys can find a way to say them to skip it. whatever the rule is.

I also imagine it depends on the player's status on the team and his contract situation.

but about our topic, do you envision the Spurs asking Victor not to go to the World Cup ? well, i do.

and i'm interested to know if timvp or anyone has some informations on this.

[rascal]

Cason Wallace is a nice option as well. One of Bufkin/Black/Wallace will definitely drop into that 10-17 range where I think it'll make sense for the FO to move up tbh.

Spurstalk sleeping on Jalen Hood-Shifino

He could end up the best PG from this draft class.

[BatManu20]

honestly love this crop of PGs. they're all solid defenders with good size. they dont have complete games, but the spurs dont really need their PG to be a "take the game over" type of guy anyway.

i have my preferences, but wouldnt be mad with any of the bigger names. i dont think black is a feasible target even though he's my favorite, but any of wallace/bufkin/hood-schifino is fine by me. though if we do go the rookie PG route, then it makes a ton of sense to re-sign Tre as the steadying hand. if we go the veteran route like CP3 (or ugh, vanvleet), then its not as important to re-sign Tre

Same. That’s why I think this is the year to trade back up. 4 legit PG prospects we could go after and I’d be happy with any of them. Black is my favorite as well, but I agree he’ll be gone by 8 and is therefor out of our reach (I don’t think the Spurs want to trade Keldon). It sounds like Bufkin is moving up boards too, and may even go as high as #8 to Washington according to Jonathan Givony. If that’s the case, he’s out of our reach too imo.

Either Cason Wallace or JHS would be a good consolation prize though. Think I’d prefer Wallace personally, but I like JHS’s potential too. He’s not quite the athlete or defender Wallace is, but he’s a solid defender in his own right, and he’s a couple inches taller too at 6’4 1/2, which I like. He’s also a little better scorer right now (granted he’s a year older) and he’s a bit flashier/more fun to watch. I’d be happy with either of these guys though. Hopefully one of them falls past 15, then I think the Spurs would be aggressive to move up tbh.

[BatManu20]

Spurstalk sleeping on Jalen Hood-Shifino

He could end up the best PG from this draft class.

Agreed he’s being slept on. Not sure he winds up being the best PG in this class, unless Amen and Black bust at the next level (unlikely given their skill sets), but I do like his two-way potential at the next level, especially if he’s paired up with someone like Wemby. He’s fun to watch with some of his flashier passes and finishes around the basket, similar to Black, though he’s a much better outside shooter than him. Those 2 guys also turn the ball over than the other PG’s though, which will need to be cleaned up.

[exstatic]

well, yes but i believe that the franchises that pay huuuuuge salaries to these guys can find a way to say them to skip it. whatever the rule is.

I also imagine it depends on the player's status on the team and his contract situation.

but about our topic, do you envision the Spurs asking Victor not to go to the World Cup ? well, i do.

and i'm interested to know if timvp or anyone has some informations on this.

I don't. After the Kawhi mess, they'll likely go out of their way to cater to him.

[spurraider21]

Same. That’s why I think this is the year to trade back up. 4 legit PG prospects we could go after and I’d be happy with any of them. Black is my favorite as well, but I agree he’ll be gone by 8 and is therefor out of our reach (I don’t think the Spurs want to trade Keldon). It sounds like Bufkin is moving up boards too, and may even go as high as #8 to Washington according to Jonathan Givony. If that’s the case, he’s out of our reach too imo.

Either Cason Wallace or JHS would be a good consolation prize though. Think I’d prefer Wallace personally, but I like JHS’s potential too. He’s not quite the athlete or defender Wallace is, but he’s a solid defender in his own right, and he’s a couple inches taller too at 6’4 1/2, which I like. He’s also a little better scorer right now (granted he’s a year older) and he’s a bit flashier/more fun to watch. I’d be happy with either of these guys though. Hopefully one of them falls past 15, then I think the Spurs would be aggressive to move up tbh.
yeah i think moving up this year for a PG is definitely the play. i do think keldon is eventually going to be a trade piece but theres no real urgency to move him. he's on year 1 of a good 4 year deal. i would basically wait until 2 of the PG targets are off the board and then start making calls in deals that dont involve keldon

JHS probably has the most work to do when it just comes to cleaning up and polishing his game, but if you squint you basically see the whole package. his shooting splits arent very good but his pullup jumper looks really natural/smooth

[kace]

I don't. After the Kawhi mess, they'll likely go out of their way to cater to him.

good point. we'll see

[The Truth #6]

Cason falling and us moving up into the mid teens might be the most realistic of these dream scenarios.

[exstatic]

Cason falling and us moving up into the mid teens might be the most realistic of these dream scenarios.

That wouldn't upset me at all, as long as the price is right. At 14/15, you might be able to get away with the CHA pick and 33.

[Ariel]

That wouldn't upset me at all, as long as the price is right. At 14/15, you might be able to get away with the CHA pick and 33.
Unlikely, given Charlotte's pick may not convey... but last year I didn't think Charlotte would trade #13 for Denver's '23 pick which was going to be in the 20s and they did, so who knows.

[Ariel]

Also, with most top 10 picks up for sale (2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10 reportedly), it may be cheaper to move up than most drafts.

[exstatic]

Unlikely, given Charlotte's pick may not convey... but last year I didn't think Charlotte would trade #13 for Denver's '23 pick which was going to be in the 20s and they did, so who knows.

There are two shots at it, and Charlotte is getting the band back together from a 43 win team year before last, plus adding either the #2 pick or whatever they trade it for.

[CGD]

Also, with most top 10 picks up for sale (2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 10 reportedly), it may be cheaper to move up than most drafts.

I wonder what this all says about this draft, if anything. That or maybe teams feel there is better value in the backend where salaries are cheaper for only slightly worse talent/production?

[rjv]

There are two shots at it, and Charlotte is getting the band back together from a 43 win team year before last, plus adding either the #2 pick or whatever they trade it for.

and, if memory serves, bridges is only set to miss the first ten games of the season-assuming the new ownership is on board with bringing him back.

[exstatic]

and, if memory serves, bridges is only set to miss the first ten games of the season-assuming the new ownership is on board with bringing him back.

I think they probably want to win, and Bridges gives them a better chance than no Bridges.

[exstatic]

My trade up PG preferences:
Black
Bufkin
Wallace

Likeliest:
Wallace
Bufkin
Black

[BatManu20]

Cason falling and us moving up into the mid teens might be the most realistic of these dream scenarios.

Thinking the same. And I’d be really happy with that. I like Wallace as a prospect and buy into the Jrue Holiday comparisons, granted he’s an inch shorter. But either way, he seems very Spursy with his high-character, selfless play, and low-maintenance demeanor. He would be a great addition at a position of need for us, and would fit seamlessly with our roster + Wemby. Plus, he’s arguably the best perimeter defender in this draft with a plus 3-point shot already. I’m all for it. Here’s to hoping a team doesn’t draft him before the top 15.

[Ariel]

There are two shots at it, and Charlotte is getting the band back together from a 43 win team year before last, plus adding either the #2 pick or whatever they trade it for.
Still, they'd be trading bird in hand for bird in the bush... doesn't make much sense. I don't think #33 makes up for the uncertainty, plus honestly I wouldn't want to give up on it, I think there's a very real shot there's value to be had in the mid 20s to early 30s.

[Seventyniner]

That wouldn't upset me at all, as long as the price is right. At 14/15, you might be able to get away with the CHA pick and 33.

imo that won't be enough. The CHA pick can't ever be any higher than #15. The CHI pick plus #33 gets it done, or maybe CHI + #44 and a couple of other future seconds if the Spurs want to be stingy.

[Mugen]

There are two shots at it, and Charlotte is getting the band back together from a 43 win team year before last, plus adding either the #2 pick or whatever they trade it for.

The #2 pick AND Mark Williams to that 43win team. That pick will convey for sure barring significant injuries.

[Ariel]

I wonder what this all says about this draft, if anything. That or maybe teams feel there is better value in the backend where salaries are cheaper for only slightly worse talent/production?
It does indeed (high uncertainty, for the most part), but it also speaks of tanking era coming to an end for most teams that exhausted that option and want to move on (Houston, Detroit, Portland, Orlando, Indiana, etc).

[Ariel]

imo that won't be enough. The CHA pick can't ever be any higher than #15. The CHI pick plus #33 gets it done, or maybe CHI + #44 and a couple of other future seconds if the Spurs want to be stingy.
If a team doesn't see anything they like or they don't want to take in another rookie, Chicago + #44 is a good offer: it's protected 10-8-8 (likely to convey), Chicago is likely to be mediocre so it should be in the lottery, and it's only a couple of years away. I'd say chances are good someone bites if their preferred choice is off the board. But I'd rather try the Charlotte pick + bad contract or a boatload of 2nds.
Anyway, the only problem I see with a 14+ pick is that Black & Bufkin are likely gone (IMO there's a very good chance they go 8, 9 or 13 at the latest), and I'm not as high on Cason Wallace.

[exstatic]

If a team doesn't see anything they like or they don't want to take in another rookie, Chicago + #44 is a good offer: it's protected 10-8-8 (likely to convey), Chicago is likely to be mediocre so it should be in the lottery, and it's only a couple of years away. I'd say chances are good someone bites if their preferred choice is off the board. But I'd rather try the Charlotte pick + bad contract or a boatload of 2nds.
Anyway, the only problem I see with a 14+ pick is that Black & Bufkin are likely gone (IMO there's a very good chance they go 8, 9 or 13 at the latest), and I'm not as high on Cason Wallace.

The problem with the CHI pick is that it doesn't break our logjam next summer. I'd almost rather offer the Toronto pick on it's own.

[mo7888]

The problem with the CHI pick is that it doesn't break our logjam next summer. I'd almost rather offer the Toronto pick on it's own.

Im not sure the Chicago pick is more valuable anyway since it most likely conveys later...time value of money principle..

[sfernald]

My sense is that Keldon would appeal to Orlando, perhaps well over a rookie at #6 they don't really need. (Kind of a no-man's land pick for them.)

Keldon to me is a fantastic 3rd option, although I think their starting unit gets as weird as ours does with him. He does hit 3s at a very high rate when he's not forced to do too much. He's near a 40%er at his best. And I don't think their defense is really excellent anyway.

If you feel like he was getting traded for picks this summer anyway... Then you're trying something like Keldon + CHA or more likely TOR and maybe need to be willing to go another pick if you have to. The Spurs are at a point where they can actually trade their own future picks, with some protections. Maybe one in 2025.

I don't know if Orlando can actually match salaries, though. Honestly fit and salary aren't clear.

Indiana is an outlier, although they'd likely prefer going for Jarace. Detroit seems unlikely?

I really like the idea of this trade, use six to draft Ausar or Black. And take a flyer on Issac who has 2 years at 17 million. it seems Orlando has had enough of his health issues and is ready to move on from him. He’s a fantastic player next to Wemby if the Spurs can some how get him healthy. I think this is a fair trade.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbH7zxD/IMG-4597.jpg

[buttsR4rebounding]

I really like the idea of this trade, use six to draft Ausar or Black. And take a flyer on Issac who has 2 years at 17 million. it seems Orlando has had enough of his health issues and is ready to move on from him. He’s a fantastic player next to Wemby if the Spurs can some how get him healthy. I think this is a fair trade.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbH7zxD/IMG-4597.jpg

I like the idea except Isaac only has something like 6 million guaranteed this year and nothing guaranteed next. Orlando can likely trade him for positive assets to a team looking to shed salary.

[exstatic]

I really like the idea of this trade, use six to draft Ausar or Black. And take a flyer on Issac who has 2 years at 17 million. it seems Orlando has had enough of his health issues and is ready to move on from him. He’s a fantastic player next to Wemby if the Spurs can some how get him healthy. I think this is a fair trade.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbH7zxD/IMG-4597.jpg

Yea, I’ll go without that pick rather than trade Keldon for that piece of shit Isaac.

[BatManu20]

Pop would never allow a Conservative like Isaac in his locker room tbh :lol

[mo7888]

Yea, I’ll go without that pick rather than trade Keldon for that piece of shit Isaac.

Isaac is just filler. Most of his salary is non-guaranteed.

[Ariel]

I really like the idea of this trade, use six to draft Ausar or Black. And take a flyer on Issac who has 2 years at 17 million. it seems Orlando has had enough of his health issues and is ready to move on from him. He’s a fantastic player next to Wemby if the Spurs can some how get him healthy. I think this is a fair trade.

https://i.postimg.cc/8kbH7zxD/IMG-4597.jpg
You're trading a 23 y.o. starter with growth potential signed long term on a bargain deal, PLUS the Toronto '24 first rounder that is likely to convey in the lottery, PLUS you're taking the bad salary of a player whose availability is among the worst in the league, for #6??? Who is there that would justify all of this? Personally, I would absolutely HATE this deal, it's extremely risky and doesn't seem to serve a clear purpose. In any case I'd rather trade the Toronto pick + some other pick/s (Charlotte's, a bunch of 2nds) for #11 if Bufkin is available, that's a more sensible approach IMO.

[mo7888]

You're trading a 23 y.o. starter with growth potential signed long term on a bargain deal, PLUS the Toronto '24 first rounder that is likely to convey in the lottery, PLUS you're taking the bad salary of a player whose availability is among the worst in the league, for #6??? Who is there that would justify all of this? Personally, I would absolutely HATE this deal, it's extremely risky and doesn't seem to serve a clear purpose. In any case I'd rather trade the Toronto pick + some other pick/s (Charlotte's, a bunch of 2nds) for #11 if Bufkin is available, that's a more sensible approach IMO.

You're not taking on much salary... only $7+M guaranteed this year and non guaranteed the following..

[Ariel]

You're not taking on much salary... only $7+M guaranteed this year and non guaranteed the following..
Still you're using your cap space to rehab him, plus losing Keldon and a future lottery pick. I wouldn't do that for anyone at 6, honestly.

[Tyronn Lue]

Never understood the CP3 hate. Wouldn't be opposed to a short term deal.

The issue isn't his fit but whether he would even consider the Spurs, imo.
Paul's reputation for exiting the playoffs with injury is well established (reinforced this season). He seems to do well until it matters at which time he does something creative and turns the situation into a tragedy. He's one who hasn't gotten over himself but maybe that's no longer a prerequisite.

[mo7888]

Still you're using your cap space to rehab him, plus losing Keldon and a future lottery pick. I wouldn't do that for anyone at 6, honestly.

You're only rehabbing him if your doctors feels like its viable, if not you just waive him and eat $7M and open a roster spot.

As for the rest (Keldon + a 'possible' future lottery pick), I might do it, but it just depends on who's there that I like. I dont believe I'd do it for Black or Bufkin. It would have to be a higher upside player for me to give up Keldon.

[BacktoBasics]

You're trading a 23 y.o. starter with growth potential signed long term on a bargain deal, PLUS the Toronto '24 first rounder that is likely to convey in the lottery, PLUS you're taking the bad salary of a player whose availability is among the worst in the league, for #6??? Who is there that would justify all of this? Personally, I would absolutely HATE this deal, it's extremely risky and doesn't seem to serve a clear purpose. In any case I'd rather trade the Toronto pick + some other pick/s (Charlotte's, a bunch of 2nds) for #11 if Bufkin is available, that's a more sensible approach IMO.

The trade Keldon crowd is delusional.

[EricB]

Yea, I’ll go without that pick rather than trade Keldon for that piece of shit Isaac.


bit extreme to call the guy a piece of shit….


��

[EricB]

Still you're using your cap space to rehab him, plus losing Keldon and a future lottery pick. I wouldn't do that for anyone at 6, honestly.

the ability to get a Black, Bufkin etc etc and raise the floor of this team, just for a guy who’s curling isn’t reached but isn’t that far off and a lottery pick that literally will be higher and in a worst draft?

that’s a no brainer imo

[TD 21]

You've got to evaluate trades from the perspective of all teams involved . . .


Nah, they (Magic) need guards, shooting, experience and have cap space, which is why the likes of Van Vleet and Trent Jr. have been mentioned as targets.



You're trading a 23 y.o. starter with growth potential signed long term on a bargain deal, PLUS the Toronto '24 first rounder that is likely to convey in the lottery, PLUS you're taking the bad salary of a player whose availability is among the worst in the league, for #6??? Who is there that would justify all of this? Personally, I would absolutely HATE this deal, it's extremely risky and doesn't seem to serve a clear purpose. In any case I'd rather trade the Toronto pick + some other pick/s (Charlotte's, a bunch of 2nds) for #11 if Bufkin is available, that's a more sensible approach IMO.

Agreed. People don't seem to realize that if they trade Johnson for a likely role playing combo guard like the ones mentioned, they not only probably don't fill the gaping hole at PG, but they'd be creating one on the wing/forward, which is more difficult to fill.

[sfernald]

You've got to evaluate trades from the perspective of all teams involved . . .

Agreed. People don't seem to realize that if they trade Johnson for a likely role playing combo guard like the ones mentioned, they not only probably don't fill the gaping hole at PG, but they'd be creating one on the wing/forward, which is more difficult to fill.



I think there’s a decent chance there’s a very high upside player like Amen or worst case Ausar there at #6. It just depends on what the teams ahead decide to do. You obviously don’t make this trade until Orlando is on the clock.

[JPB]

Spurs are not trading up in the top 10, and Keldon isn't going anywhere. Way too expensive for way too much risks and uncertainty.

[Degoat]

Someone @ 33 will be available for us that will be really intriguing. We’re getting the prospect among all prospects with #1.

[BacktoBasics]

bit extreme to call the guy a piece of shit….


��

He’s a borderline flat earther. The only reason people don’t listen to him like they did Kyrie is because Issac is a nobody.

[Mr. Body]

I don't see how Keldon would even fit with Orlando. They have Franz and Paolo as their forwards already.

[JR3]

With the league starting to penalize flopping, we better hope we don’t get Chris Paul…

[rascal]

The #2 pick AND Mark Williams to that 43win team. That pick will convey for sure barring significant injuries.

Don't count on it.

Charlotte is a poorly run team. They haven't won a playoff series in 20 years.

[Mr. Body]

Don't count on it.

Charlotte is a poorly run team. They haven't won a playoff series in 20 years.

They don't need to win a playoff series, they just need to make the playoffs. With Mark Williams, they looked vastly improved. A healthy team and a worsening Eastern Conference should all but ensure the Hornets make the playoffs.

[EricB]

With the league starting to penalize flopping, we better hope we don’t get Chris Paul…


they’ll penalize flopping the same day they start calling traveling consistently

[rascal]

They don't need to win a playoff series, they just need to make the playoffs. With Mark Williams, they looked vastly improved. A healthy team and a worsening Eastern Conference should all but ensure the Hornets make the playoffs.

Don't count on it.

Charlotte has only made the playoffs 2 out of the last ten years.

[heyheymymy]

Charlotte just saw MJ sell his majority share in the team which makes me wonder if they will suddenly start making better decisions now lol

I swear that trade with DET this time last year coughing up Duren was so bad it seems like MJ lost a bet on the golf course or something. Wonder how much of the problem was MJ's shitty choices and terrible leadership.

[rascal]

Charlotte just saw MJ sell his majority share in the team which makes me wonder if they will suddenly start making better decisions now lol

I swear that trade with DET this time last year coughing up Duren was so bad it seems like MJ lost a bet on the golf course or something. Wonder how much of the problem was MJ's shitty choices and terrible leadership.

Charlotte doesn't know what they are doing.

They are going to mess up that 2nd pick their getting. Will probably take Miller who won't be as good as they expect or make a bad trade.

[exstatic]

Don't count on it.

Charlotte has only made the playoffs 2 out of the last ten years.

Funny. Both times it was with the coach they have now, so, he’s made the playoffs two of the five years there,and one of those non playoffs was a tank year.

[exstatic]

Charlotte doesn't know what they are doing.

They are going to mess up that 2nd pick their getting. Will probably take Miller who won't be as good as they expect or make a bad trade.

MJ doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s made all of the decisions.

[EricB]

MJ doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s made all of the decisions.


mid be curious how they’d be had he just let Kupchek do his job.

[FkLA]

Paul's reputation for exiting the playoffs with injury is well established (reinforced this season). He seems to do well until it matters at which time he does something creative and turns the situation into a tragedy. He's one who hasn't gotten over himself but maybe that's no longer a prerequisite.

Is his durability really a good reason to hate the guy though? Besides I don't think a deep playoff run is a concern with this team for the length of time we'd have him.

He can act like a petulant child sometimes on the court, flops or draws annoying "heady" fouls...but all that comes from a desire to win/hatred for losing. He's objectively been a great player. Yeah,he's come up short some times in big moments but it's not like Tony didn't get bailed out by backup PGs numerous times throughout his career (Speedy, Beno, Barry, CoJo, Patty). CP3 just never had a Timmy or Manu to lean on during those bad games.

[rascal]

MJ doesn’t know what he’s doing. He’s made all of the decisions.

Jordan remains the team's governor and final decision-maker until the new group is vetted and approved by the league's board of governors, which isn't expected for several weeks.

[Tyronn Lue]

Is his durability really a good reason to hate the guy though? Besides I don't think a deep playoff run is a concern with this team for the length of time we'd have him.

He can act like a petulant child sometimes on the court, flops or draws annoying "heady" fouls...but all that comes from a desire to win/hatred for losing. He's objectively been a great player. Yeah,he's come up short some times in big moments but it's not like Tony didn't get bailed out by backup PGs numerous times throughout his career (Speedy, Beno, Barry, CoJo, Patty). CP3 just never had a Timmy or Manu to lean on during those bad games.
I think his high IQ moments and his undeserved swagger drive some to dislike him, given he's not accomplished anything but individual accolades.