The Only Seven Prospects the Spurs Would Select if San Antonio Trades for Another First Rounder

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/players-spurs-trade-first-round-2023-draft/

[spurraider21]

Trading up for Jerace would be pretty dumb. But glad they seem locked in on getting a PG or at least the combo guards who show PG upside. With wemby/Sochan/Vassell we don’t necessarily need a dominant pg who can blow by guys, etc. if they can run a good pick and roll that’s good enough.

Hood Schifino and Bufkin are the best of the realistic targets even though black is my favorite

Coulibaly is interesting but seems too risky imo. But that pick would more or less cement a keldon trade down the line

[MultiTroll]

Coulibaly is interesting but seems too risky imo. But that pick would more or less cement a keldon trade down the line
Did Coulibaly get exposed in that final series?

Or too hard to tell as outside of Wemby and Couli they had no help?

[kht]

I'm guessing all of these guys are a "2 for 1" swap (two future firsts for the current firsts).

[kht]

Did Coulibaly get exposed in that final series?

Or too hard to tell as outside of Wemby and Couli they had no help?

I mean he is 18 years old. Remember when you were 18 years old...

[MultiTroll]

I mean he is 18 years old. Remember when you were 18 years old...
Oh i do and with Wemby being only 19.

I'm not down with the Play Big Minutes we must let Wemby have a shot at ROY.

Health and development should be far and way the #1 priority this season.

But ya does Coul have NBA potential or not?

[BatManu20]

Been wondering why JHS hasn’t been getting more love on this board. He looks like a solid PG prospect to me, especially with his 6’6 frame, and would be a solid consolation prize if we can’t land Black or Bufkin imo.

But yea, I still prefer Black or Bufkin at the end of the day. If we can acquire either of those guys without giving up Keldon, that’d be a slam dunk imo.

Jarace would be dumb to trade up for. Don’t see that happening at all.

I’m still not as high on Coulibaly as most. He’s played one good game that I’ve seen so far. He’s been a JAG every other time I’ve seen him play. Youth and athleticism are there, but if I’m giving up major assets to trade up into the lottery, I’d want a much safer bet than him.

And I’m not as high on Keyontae George personally. He’s a bit of a chucker and he’s not a PG, although I do see the upside with him as a scorer.

[mo7888]

Jarace is the best player on that list and hed be perfect beside Wembanyama. I'd guess he and Black are in the same range as per cost of moving up. Jarace is probably the only one od move up for in the top 10 and thats really only if he falls a bit (or if Detroit really wants to move #5 and covets a current player.

I like all three PG's, but I like Bufkin and Black about the same and would be happy with either from 11 down... JHS would be worth the risk around 20 imo.

I don't care for George on this team..

[bluebellmaniac]

My cousin's neighbor's ex-gf has a friend who works in the Spurs FO and has a strong connection on who we are looking to trade up for. Seems there is a 21 yr old Serbian guard who is 5'10" with almost a 6' wingspan we are targeting.

Will get back when I have more info.

[Mr. Body]

Man, these direct and certain timvp posts have me second guessing what the real goals are, I've convinced myself of misdirection so much.

Anthony Black and Bufkin have been my guys, no surprise there. I do question Black's fit due to his scoring, and the cost is too much. But... I don't how teams run a pick-n-roll against him and Wembanyama, for example.

Bufkin is my guy at the moment. Can he develop more as a playmaker? I think so. Otherwise he's just good at everything.

Cason and JHS I'm less high on, but all four are great defensive prospects, which is what I want, and they have offensive skills. You don't see drafts shaping up like this very often.

[mo7888]

Man, these direct and certain timvp posts have me second guessing what the real goals are, I've convinced myself of misdirection so much.

Anthony Black and Bufkin have been my guys, no surprise there. I do question Black's fit due to his scoring, and the cost is too much. But... I don't how teams run a pick-n-roll against him and Wembanyama, for example.

Bufkin is my guy at the moment. Can he develop more as a playmaker? I think so. Otherwise he's just good at everything.

Cason and JHS I'm less high on, but all four are great defensive prospects, which is what I want, and they have offensive skills. You don't see drafts shaping up like this very often.

I still think it's misdirection (or at least I lean that way), I believe timvp is reporting what he hears, but I think there's subterfuge coming from team sources and other scouts are just saying what seems plausible from an outside POV.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I mean he is 18 years old. Remember when you were 18 years old...

Ahh, yes, I do. I wish I still had that vertical leap.

[Mr. Body]

I still think it's misdirection (or at least I lean that way), I believe timvp is reporting what he hears, but I think there's subterfuge coming from team sources and other scouts are just saying what seems plausible from an outside POV.

Well, that's because there are players you want that aren't mentioned. :)

Really, the 'misdirection' thing comes iirc soley from the Mark Williams mention last year which, to be honest, they might have considered a high possibility. Or, much more likely, the FO is tight-lipped as usual and timvp via sources is piecing best guesses together, more informed than the rest of us but not very different. Occam's Razor suggests the FO isn't using SpursTalk to throw anyone off the scent. They really do need a longterm PG prospect and probably one that is defensive.

[mo7888]

Well, that's because there are players you want that aren't mentioned. :)

Really, the 'misdirection' thing comes iirc soley from the Mark Williams mention last year which, to be honest, they might have considered a high possibility. Or, much more likely, the FO is tight-lipped as usual and timvp via sources is piecing best guesses together, more informed than the rest of us but not very different. Occam's Razor suggests the FO isn't using SpursTalk to throw anyone off the scent. They really do need a longterm PG prospect and probably one that is defensive.

Lol... Well, there is that one guy..

Part of the reason I think its misdirection is because I don't think its so 'cut and dried' that the Spurs would only make a move for those 7 guys. For instance, if a guy like Ausar or Amen falls to the 13-15 range do we really think that they wouldn't explore moving up? Or if Gradey Dick falls to 18-20 would they really not explore moving up? Basically, I think it's more fluid and nuanced than... we'll only take one of these 7...

[bluebellmaniac]

Filip P is our guy. You heard the leak here first.

[Mugen]

Kobeeeee

[Atl Spur]

Jerace Walker at #5 would be nice.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Jerace Walker at #5 would be nice.

Agreed. I get why people wouldn't want him, but I really enjoy the way Walker plays basketball. I see him having Kawhi like upside.

[LeBowen]

Everyone keeps talking about the players Spurs want to trade up for, but what would they realistically be willing to give up?

As the article says, Keldon is the only tradeable asset that has value around the league. Devin and Jeremy shouldn't be on the table unless some ridiculous trade happens.
There's a ton of future picks, but Spurs were always reluctant to trade picks even when they were in mid to late 20s, let alone trading them now when we still don't have a clue how good Victor is and what's going to happen over the next few years.
Toronto pick looks solid and Hawks picks shouldn't be traded because they're a potential jackpot with Hawks being on the verge of collapse.

Honestly, I just want to see Victor suit up. If he's as good as advertised, possibilities are infinite and Spurs won't have trouble assembling a roster around him.

[exstatic]

Everyone keeps talking about the players Spurs want to trade up for, but what would they realistically be willing to give up?

As the article says, Keldon is the only tradeable asset that has value around the league. Devin and Jeremy shouldn't be on the table unless some ridiculous trade happens.
There's a ton of future picks, but Spurs were always reluctant to trade picks even when they were in mid to late 20s, let alone trading them now when we still don't have a clue how good Victor is and what's going to happen over the next few years.
Toronto pick looks solid and Hawks picks shouldn't be traded because they're a potential jackpot with Hawks being on the verge of collapse.

Honestly, I just want to see Victor suit up. If he's as good as advertised, possibilities are infinite and Spurs won't have trouble assembling a roster around him.

We're going to have to trade picks at some point. We can't select 32 players in the next 7 drafts.

[mo7888]

We're going to have to trade picks at some point. We can't select 32 players in the next 7 drafts.

I think there's also an argument to be made that they have more value in trades now than they will when they're piling up on us and everyone knows were under a time crunch to move some of them.

[exstatic]

I think there's also an argument to be made that they have more value in trades now than they will when they're piling up on us and everyone knows were under a time crunch to move some of them.

Right. That could be what happened last year when we had 3 first rounders. We could have 3 again next year.

[LeBowen]

We're going to have to trade picks at some point. We can't select 32 players in the next 7 drafts.

Obviously, but those picks could be way more valuable in a year or two than they are now.
I wouldn't trade Hawks picks under any circumstances, they're a dumpster fire and will surely implode.

I guess our own picks could be traded if PATFO thinks both Victor and the player we're trading for are a sure thing.
Noone is going to give us a lottery pick for futures with heavy protection.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of trading multiple picks that don't have established value yet to move up for another pick and not an actual known quantity player.

I'd just play the season out, see how Victor and everyone else develops without any tanking DNPs and go from there.

Unless PATFO sees someone as a must have player. Still a risk, but that's what they're paid for while we guesstimate things on the internet.

[exstatic]

Obviously, but those picks could be way more valuable in a year or two than they are now.
I wouldn't trade Hawks picks under any circumstances, they're a dumpster fire and will surely implode.

I guess our own picks could be traded if PATFO thinks both Victor and the player we're trading for are a sure thing.
Noone is going to give us a lottery pick for futures with heavy protection.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of trading multiple picks that don't have established value yet to move up for another pick and not an actual known quantity player.

I'd just play the season out, see how Victor and everyone else develops without any tanking DNPs and go from there.

Unless PATFO sees someone as a must have player. Still a risk, but that's what they're paid for while we guesstimate things on the internet.

They do have an established maximum value, though. The TOR pick can't be higher than 7. The CHI pick has a maximum value of 9 in subsequent years, 11 in year 1. The CHA pick has a maximum value of 15.

Like Mo said, if you have a bunch of them in a draft, they could lose value. We stand a decent chance of having 3 FRPs next draft again, and you can lose leverage if you go into the draft with that many. Teams could just say "fine, draft all 3 picks if that's your price." That could very well be what happened last year when we had 3 FRPs.

[Atl Spur]

Agreed. I get why people wouldn't want him, but I really enjoy the way Walker plays basketball. I see him having Kawhi like upside.

Versatility / defense would be stupid for the next 7 plus years:)

[Mr. Body]

Obviously, but those picks could be way more valuable in a year or two than they are now.
I wouldn't trade Hawks picks under any circumstances, they're a dumpster fire and will surely implode.

I guess our own picks could be traded if PATFO thinks both Victor and the player we're trading for are a sure thing.
Noone is going to give us a lottery pick for futures with heavy protection.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of trading multiple picks that don't have established value yet to move up for another pick and not an actual known quantity player.

I'd just play the season out, see how Victor and everyone else develops without any tanking DNPs and go from there.

Unless PATFO sees someone as a must have player. Still a risk, but that's what they're paid for while we guesstimate things on the internet.

I'm really puzzled by the "wait and see" philosophy. Wait and see for what? What exactly are you waiting for?

As a side, the Spurs wouldn't be trading for a spot in this draft. They're trading for specific players. If they can get one of those specific players, they're not going to make the trade.

The Spurs have three first round picks next year. They have three more first round picks the following year. They cannot add another six rookies to the team in that time.

No one expects them to trade the Atlanta picks. The Charlotte, Toronto, and Chicago picks are probably in the mix. Typically, they'll weigh the risks of including one or another. Going forward, the prospect of including their own picks, with some protections, has risen greatly. They will likely be a playoff team very soon.

It simply doesn't make sense to not try to get a prospect they can actually see and evaluate right now, who exists right now, who they can start the process of developing, using capital that needs to be burned in the future anyway.

[spurs10]

We're going to have to trade picks at some point. We can't select 32 players in the next 7 drafts. Yeah we need to wheel and deal here. Now's a good time.

[BatManu20]

Agreed. I get why people wouldn't want him, but I really enjoy the way Walker plays basketball. I see him having Kawhi like upside.

It’s not that I don’t think Jarace is a good player, I actually like his hard-nosed game. It doesn’t make sense to trade a lot of assets and maybe even Keldon to move up to picks 5-7 to take another Forward when we desperately need a PG. We already have Sochan and Zollins along with Wemby coming in, plus Mamu, Bassey, & even Barlow, who showed some promise last year. Jarace would be redundant. If we’re giving up major assets to move up, it needs to be for a PG imo.

[exstatic]

I'm really puzzled by the "wait and see" philosophy. Wait and see for what? What exactly are you waiting for?

As a side, the Spurs wouldn't be trading for a spot in this draft. They're trading for specific players. If they can get one of those specific players, they're not going to make the trade.

The Spurs have three first round picks next year. They have three more first round picks the following year. They cannot add another six rookies to the team in that time.

No one expects them to trade the Atlanta picks. The Charlotte, Toronto, and Chicago picks are probably in the mix. Typically, they'll weigh the risks of including one or another. Going forward, the prospect of including their own picks, with some protections, has risen greatly. They will likely be a playoff team very soon.

It simply doesn't make sense to not try to get a prospect they can actually see and evaluate right now, who exists right now, who they can start the process of developing, using capital that needs to be burned in the future anyway.

Exactly. If you wait, the CHI, CHA, and TOR picks could all wind up being in the 20s, and you're screwed for value.

Do a little scarf dance, a hoochie cooch, dazzle them with the maximum possible value, and seal the deal now. Washington at #8 might be a good mark. If they are burning it to the ground, they're going to need picks for their rebuild.

[JPB]

Did Coulibaly get exposed in that final series?

Or too hard to tell as outside of Wemby and Couli they had no help?

He's 18 playing vs adults and Bilal has only 5 or 6 months of pro career. He's up to ups and downs. Again, it's about potential and tryig to see over of his pro games the things he's good at... Put NCAA players in that finale series and most of them are lost. Not everyone is Wemby... Not saying Bilal is surefire valuable NBA player, but there's definitely some intrigue. People judging him over his last game could never be scouts...

[LeBowen]

I'm really puzzled by the "wait and see" philosophy. Wait and see for what? What exactly are you waiting for?

Well, for starters it would be nice to play out a season without all the DNP blatant tanking nonsense so we can see what's the actual value of this roster.
Some months ago, there were a few topics about what PATFO should do and a lot of people, including myself, agreed that we should just play a season out without tanking.
Even before the lottery I said our roster should be in 30-35 wins range the next season. With Victor developing as projected, we should be on the level of this season's OKC/Jazz. If he's actually the next big thing and has a rookie season similar to Admiral/Timmy, we could maybe even make the play-in. Won't happen, but you get the point.

Another, an even bigger reason if you ask me is that there are a lot of teams with questionable future and some big names might become available really soon. If not this year, then during the next season and most definitely in the next summer.
Pretty much the entire East is in a weird spot and you can't guarantee than any of those teams won't blow it up over the next year or two.
Same goes for the West except for Denver. I don't think we've ever seen anything like this in the history of the league. And there are some damn good players out there who could become available and if they do, Spurs would be in the best possible position to get them.

Even if there are no trade requests, give Wemby a season and then if he turns out to be as good as advertised, everyone will want to play with the next generational superstar.

Also, I'm not going to lie, I don't think college ball is worth following at all, but everyone in here seems to be obsessed with Anthony Black, who's a bad shooter.
We talked about it the other day, bad shooters in PG position just don't work these days unless the rest of the team is elite from deep.
Wemby won't be playing C anytime soon and Sochan is another projected starter. That's already three spots filled with questionable shooters. Even if Jeremy gets the sixth man role, which I doubt, it's still bad spacing if we get a playmaker who's not an elite shooter.

In short, even Giannis and Jokic had elite triple threat guards running pnr with them because you can't win without it in today's league. That's why I don't get the obsession with playmakers who can't shoot.
Both Victor and Jeremy are projected to be among the best defenders in the league, Devin and Keldon also have size, defense won't be our problem.
As much as we all love defense because that's the franchise's identity, we need to find ourselves a primary ballhandler who's capable of pulling up off the dribble from deep with solid efficency.

That's my take. Maybe you're completely right and I'm clueless. Maybe it's the other way around, we can't know yet.

I just think that seeing if Victor is actually the real deal is the most sensible approach because there will be plenty of opportunities to trade those assets if he is. And plenty of disgruntled stars who will line up to play with the next generational star.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm really puzzled by the "wait and see" philosophy. Wait and see for what? What exactly are you waiting for?

As a side, the Spurs wouldn't be trading for a spot in this draft. They're trading for specific players. If they can get one of those specific players, they're not going to make the trade.

The Spurs have three first round picks next year. They have three more first round picks the following year. They cannot add another six rookies to the team in that time.

No one expects them to trade the Atlanta picks. The Charlotte, Toronto, and Chicago picks are probably in the mix. Typically, they'll weigh the risks of including one or another. Going forward, the prospect of including their own picks, with some protections, has risen greatly. They will likely be a playoff team very soon.

It simply doesn't make sense to not try to get a prospect they can actually see and evaluate right now, who exists right now, who they can start the process of developing, using capital that needs to be burned in the future anyway.
I’m a huge fan of Black. I’d have no issue coming off one of the Atlanta picks and one of the firsts you mentioned to get him. But again I’m a fan and I think overpaying for him is worth it.

[Mr. Body]

Well, for starters it would be nice to play out a season without all the DNP blatant tanking nonsense so we can see what's the actual value of this roster.
Some months ago, there were a few topics about what PATFO should do and a lot of people, including myself, agreed that we should just play a season out without tanking.
Even before the lottery I said our roster should be in 30-35 wins range the next season. With Victor developing as projected, we should be on the level of this season's OKC/Jazz. If he's actually the next big thing and has a rookie season similar to Admiral/Timmy, we could maybe even make the play-in. Won't happen, but you get the point.

Another, an even bigger reason if you ask me is that there are a lot of teams with questionable future and some big names might become available really soon. If not this year, then during the next season and most definitely in the next summer.
Pretty much the entire East is in a weird spot and you can't guarantee than any of those teams won't blow it up over the next year or two.
Same goes for the West except for Denver. I don't think we've ever seen anything like this in the history of the league. And there are some damn good players out there who could become available and if they do, Spurs would be in the best possible position to get them.

Even if there are no trade requests, give Wemby a season and then if he turns out to be as good as advertised, everyone will want to play with the next generational superstar.

Also, I'm not going to lie, I don't think college ball is worth following at all, but everyone in here seems to be obsessed with Anthony Black, who's a bad shooter.
We talked about it the other day, bad shooters in PG position just don't work these days unless the rest of the team is elite from deep.
Wemby won't be playing C anytime soon and Sochan is another projected starter. That's already three spots filled with questionable shooters. Even if Jeremy gets the sixth man role, which I doubt, it's still bad spacing if we get a playmaker who's not an elite shooter.

In short, even Giannis and Jokic had elite triple threat guards running pnr with them because you can't win without it in today's league. That's why I don't get the obsession with playmakers who can't shoot.
Both Victor and Jeremy are projected to be among the best defenders in the league, Devin and Keldon also have size, defense won't be our problem.
As much as we all love defense because that's the franchise's identity, we need to find ourselves a primary ballhandler who's capable of pulling up off the dribble from deep with solid efficency.

That's my take. Maybe you're completely right and I'm clueless. Maybe it's the other way around, we can't know yet.

I just think that seeing if Victor is actually the real deal is the most sensible approach because there will be plenty of opportunities to trade those assets if he is. And plenty of disgruntled stars who will line up to play with the next generational star.

If you had Victor Wembanyama and a squad of puppy dogs, would you 'just play the season out' to see what you had? I truly cannot comprehend this take. If your roof looked like it could be improved, would you go through the winter, 'just to see what you had'?

Why would you wait for disaffected players to become available in some imagined future? What if that doesn't happen? Did you just screw yourself badly?

You don't like Anthony Black, which makes sense. Why not think about other players. There are those who can shoot. Or are you just wanting to cover for not wanting to do anything at all?

Like, basically, leave aside the argument about having so many draft assets that we have to spend them. You don't seem to engage with this part. Leaving that aside, why would you prevent yourself from potentially improving the squad immediately? I'd rather do that than chase ghosts.

[JPB]

Who except RC, Wright and Pop would definitely know? And would any of these 3 openly say to anyone who they target? I mean, do they even know themselves?

We have absolutely no idea what spurs want to do... Just assuming and guessing.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lStInDMPkjM

[LeBowen]

If you had Victor Wembanyama and a squad of puppy dogs, would you 'just play the season out' to see what you had? I truly cannot comprehend this take. If your roof looked like it could be improved, would you go through the winter, 'just to see what you had'?

Obviously I'd like the to have the best roster possible, but a lot of you in here would gladly trade Keldon and picks for Lonzo Ball 2.0 if scouting reports are to be trusted.
Much like every year, this board becomes obsessed with a prospect or two who are supposedly the next big thing, no questions asked, and then those players flop in spectacular fashion.
While we're at Keldon, remember the meltdown when Nassir Little and Jordan Poole got taken before our pick? Look who's laughing now.

Don't talk as if this roster is Rockets/Pistons level trash, did you watch the games? They looked good in most games against playoff teams when there was no selective tanking to make sure we get the L for the lottery.
Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Collins are more than good enough for Wemby's rookie season. Tre isn't, but he's solid enough if we can't get a better PG. Devonte can fill in until the deadline.


You don't like Anthony Black, which makes sense. Why not think about other players. There are those who can shoot. Or are you just wanting to cover for not wanting to do anything at all?

As I said, if there's an opportunity to move up for a player PATFO sees as a must have, like what happened with Kawhi, I'm sure they'll do it.
But again, this board makes it look like there are like five future guaranteed all-stars available who are worth spending a couple of picks and a player on. When in reality not even Scoot and Thompsons are a sure thing. They could end up as the next Ben Simmons, Eric Bledsoe and Emmanuel Mudiay. That's up for PATFO to decide while we just write in here as if it was the easiest decision to make.


Why would you wait for disaffected players to become available in some imagined future? What if that doesn't happen? Did you just screw yourself badly?

It's the NBA. With the mentality current star players and their agents have, there's no doubt that the next season will be a massive shitshow with a lot of teams crumbling and panic trading players. Just look at all the supposed legit playof teams, like 80% of them are on the brink of making big moves. The league was never more open and yet it never had so few stable rosters that are ready to win.


Like, basically, leave aside the argument about having so many draft assets that we have to spend them. You don't seem to engage with this part. Leaving that aside, why would you prevent yourself from potentially improving the squad immediately? I'd rather do that than chase ghosts.

How do I put it...okay, I'll try to make it simple.

I believe that we can get way more for the same price if we just stay patient for a bit and wait for the dominos to start falling. Victor making an instant impact would just make it even easier to do so. Just wait until the deadline or the next summer and I guarantee you Spurs will have another all-star next to Victor.

What's the point of improving the squad immediately when the difference is 9th or 11th seed and we have so much unknown quantity on the roster? Jeremy has massive potential and I believe Devin can also make the next step. Then there are all the other young players with less potential, but who knows. Let them have a season. I'd rather trade for a guard that's 25 or younger and a sure thing, than have a rookie point guard on top of all this uncertainty when it comes to how good our players actually are. Victor needs someone who's going to instantly give him the best possible envoriment to develop, not another rookie that's learning on the fly.
Again, if there's a sure thing available like in 2011, by all means. Trade Keldon and all the picks you want to get us another nephew-like steal.
I just don't like the mentality that it has to happen right now. FOMO mentality. Those picks aren't going to run away if they're not traded on the draft day.

My prediction would be that PATFO has a player they really like in 15-25 range and that they'll trade up for him. But I just can't see Spurs moving into top10 unless some other big trades happen and a chain reaction starts.

[Mr. Body]

NO, Atlanta, Utah had Bufkin cancel workouts, apparently. Seems like he has a promise before 14... although Utah is also at 9. That part is confusing. I guess Orlando 11 or Toronto 13 has him. Or Dallas, I suppose if they have a trade partner. I don't know if they'd want a guard. Washington 8 needs a guard, though, and they're right in front of Utah's 9.

So if this is all true, then the Spurs would have to leap ahead of 11 and really get that 10.

[Mr. Body]

Obviously I'd like the to have the best roster possible, but a lot of you in here would gladly trade Keldon and picks for Lonzo Ball 2.0 if scouting reports are to be trusted.
Much like every year, this board becomes obsessed with a prospect or two who are supposedly the next big thing, no questions asked, and then those players flop in spectacular fashion.
While we're at Keldon, remember the meltdown when Nassir Little and Jordan Poole got taken before our pick? Look who's laughing now.

Don't talk as if this roster is Rockets/Pistons level trash, did you watch the games? They looked good in most games against playoff teams when there was no selective tanking to make sure we get the L for the lottery.
Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Collins are more than good enough for Wemby's rookie season. Tre isn't, but he's solid enough if we can't get a better PG. Devonte can fill in until the deadline.



As I said, if there's an opportunity to move up for a player PATFO sees as a must have, like what happened with Kawhi, I'm sure they'll do it.
But again, this board makes it look like there are like five future guaranteed all-stars available who are worth spending a couple of picks and a player on. When in reality not even Scoot and Thompsons are a sure thing. They could end up as the next Ben Simmons, Eric Bledsoe and Emmanuel Mudiay. That's up for PATFO to decide while we just write in here as if it was the easiest decision to make.



It's the NBA. With the mentality current star players and their agents have, there's no doubt that the next season will be a massive shitshow with a lot of teams crumbling and panic trading players. Just look at all the supposed legit playof teams, like 80% of them are on the brink of making big moves. The league was never more open and yet it never had so few stable rosters that are ready to win.



How do I put it...okay, I'll try to make it simple.

I believe that we can get way more for the same price if we just stay patient for a bit and wait for the dominos to start falling. Victor making an instant impact would just make it even easier to do so. Just wait until the deadline or the next summer and I guarantee you Spurs will have another all-star next to Victor.

What's the point of improving the squad immediately when the difference is 9th or 11th seed and we have so much unknown quantity on the roster? Jeremy has massive potential and I believe Devin can also make the next step. Then there are all the other young players with less potential, but who knows. Let them have a season. I'd rather trade for a guard that's 25 or younger and a sure thing, than have a rookie point guard on top of all this uncertainty when it comes to how good our players actually are. Victor needs someone who's going to instantly give him the best possible envoriment to develop, not another rookie that's learning on the fly.
Again, if there's a sure thing available like in 2011, by all means. Trade Keldon and all the picks you want to get us another nephew-like steal.
I just don't like the mentality that it has to happen right now. FOMO mentality. Those picks aren't going to run away if they're not traded on the draft day.

My prediction would be that PATFO has a player they really like in 15-25 range and that they'll trade up for him. But I just can't see Spurs moving into top10 unless some other big trades happen and a chain reaction starts.

I don't know, man, why don't you call up the Front Office and tell them they're doing the wrong things.

[wildbill2u]

https://www.spurstalk.com/players-spurs-trade-first-round-2023-draft/

seems to me that all the talk about our need for a guard, even if we have to pay to move up in the draft, pretty much puts last year's draft of two guards into the "fail" category. Now i'm not sure that is the case, but I don't think that Wesley and Branham are as good as some of the posters think they are when you read other threads. Of the two, Branham is obviously much readier at this point to take some minutes next year. Wesley looks like a prospect at best who needs a lot of work to make a NBA player.

So I'm OK with any improvement by draft or trade in the near future, but we can survive with Jones, Graham, Branham for a while longer.

[DPG21920]

IF they think it will take trading up to 6-8 to get Black, then Amen is not out of the question. If they have the juice to get to 5 or 6, Amen could be there.

Spurs: Wemby
CHA: Miller
POR: Scoot
HOU: Whitmore

Then Amen becomes a real thing if they thought they could get to pick 6 even

[LeBowen]

I don't know, man, why don't you call up the Front Office and tell them they're doing the wrong things.

Why would I call them? You guys are the ones who think a big trade up will happen.
It's the same every year with trade hype and always ends with we like what we have. :lol

I'd rather be wrong in this case, getting another potential star right away would be amazing, but my opinion is that it won't happen...yet.

[jesterbobman]

I'd imagine the list has tiers in it based on what they'd be willing to give up to get them. That could be current / future picks alone, or taking on salary (e.g, a draft day deal to save Miami money by taking on Lowry's expiring deal if that lets us swap 33 for 18), or getting rid of players in a trade.

I'd guess something like:
Black is 33, Chicago pick, Toronto pick and Charlotte pick.
Walker is Keldon + Charlotte pick (player asset given the fit is a lot wonkier with Walker alongside Keldon / Sochan and Wemby).
Bufkin and Cason is 33, Charlotte, Toronto (or, a bit less for Cason - I have Cason higher, but it seems like Bufkin is higher on the Spurs board and other mocks).
Coulibaly is 33, Toronto, a couple of future 2nds.
JHS /Keynote is 33, Toronto.

With some of the 2024 seconds greasing the wheels.

Based on current boards and prices, Cason would be my target (I think he'll be like Marcus Smart, but if you can get him in a lab and focus on advantage generation he works as an occasional on ball initiator and off ball shooter, and a high level defender that gets closer to Jrue's value).

[scott]

They do have an established maximum value, though. The TOR pick can't be higher than 7. The CHI pick has a maximum value of 9 in subsequent years, 11 in year 1. The CHA pick has a maximum value of 15.

Like Mo said, if you have a bunch of them in a draft, they could lose value. We stand a decent chance of having 3 FRPs next draft again, and you can lose leverage if you go into the draft with that many. Teams could just say "fine, draft all 3 picks if that's your price." That could very well be what happened last year when we had 3 FRPs.

Definitely the proper way of looking at it and the OKC Trade with Denver that just happened is a great example of how having an abundance of picks to the point where you MUST be a seller can dampen the value.

I think there is a good point to be made, however, against trading 3 future picks for a Top 10 pick this year *if* those 3 picks *could* get a young player who has already proven he can do it in the NBA (even if just for one season) instead.

I do not have an examples off the top of my head... but I'm sure we could think of some.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn't trade any of the ATL picks, but moving 2 of the CHA, TOR and CHI picks with some seconds to move up and get a PG seems like the right move in this draft which is much stronger than the next one. Plus the player you pick can develop for a full season a year earlier. You'd still have enough assets to put together a trade package if any star players become available. I also wouldn't attach any players to trade for an unproven draft pick.

[Kevin]

The Spurs aren't getting Black without one of Keldon or an Atlanta pick. I'd do Keldon plus the Raps pick. We've seen Keldon's ceiling and now is the perfect time to swing for upside.

As mentioned the Spurs have to trade picks and Keldon doesn't fit the roster very well. Now's the time.

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1669483032485429252

Looks like black and bufkin are out of range, i don't see us giving a big package for them

[DAF86]

Bufkin is the only one I'd trade up for of that bunch, tbh. Finishing, shooting, creation, defense. As complete as they come. I'm shocked he isn't a surefire top 5 prospect.

[BacktoBasics]

The Spurs aren't getting Black without one of Keldon or an Atlanta pick. I'd do Keldon plus the Raps pick. We've seen Keldon's ceiling and now is the perfect time to swing for upside.

As mentioned the Spurs have to trade picks and Keldon doesn't fit the roster very well. Now's the time.

You’d unload Keldon for a player with no offense and expect Vassell and Wemby to carry the offensive load with this trade. That’s a bad idea.

I think next year is a better time to explore moving Keldon unless you’re returning a proven talent or trading into the top 3.

We need Keldon and Vassell to carry the offense for Wembys first year. If Branham develops or an upgrade on offense becomes available then moving Keldon is less of a problem.

As mentioned above I have no problem moving one of the Atlanta picks if it brings back Black.

The time to over pay with picks or consolidate picks is when you’ve stockpiled them like we have.

[tbdog]

Keldon isn't moving us into the top 3. I'm not sure blazers would see Johnson has a main piece. Pistons might have interest in his shooting. Dallas might consider if Bertans is the matching salary at 10.

[BacktoBasics]

Keldon isn't moving us into the top 3. I'm not sure blazers would see Johnson has a main piece. Pistons might have interest in his shooting. Dallas might consider if Bertans is the matching salary at 10.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think he gets us into the top 3 either. I was just saying that would be the only level of potential I’d justify moving him for. There’s no pressing need to move him for a pick somewhere in the 5-10 range. Creates too big of a hole offensively. Plus he’s on a great contract and he’s a great teammate and locker room guy.

[Degoat]

I know it’s kind of unconventional and maybe even redundant with Branham on the team, but there’s talk of Keyonte George slipping I’d really like for the spurs to grab him if there’s a chance

[CGD]

Exactly. If you wait, the CHI, CHA, and TOR picks could all wind up being in the 20s, and you're screwed for value.

Do a little scarf dance, a hoochie cooch, dazzle them with the maximum possible value, and seal the deal now. Washington at #8 might be a good mark. If they are burning it to the ground, they're going to need picks for their rebuild.

I’m liking WAS at 8 as a target as well. They’ll probably want a player back though, unless a Beal deal gets them the Miami pick.

[Mr. Body]

I’m liking WAS at 8 as a target as well. They’ll probably want a player back though, unless a Beal deal gets them the Miami pick.

My guess is they'd def want a player now. Dallas will want a player now at 10. Orlando is a question mark at 11. They could possssibly take a basket of picks.

I don't see the Spurs exiling Keldon, or anyone, to a shitty rebuild in Washington.

[BacktoBasics]

I know it’s kind of unconventional and maybe even redundant with Branham on the team, but there’s talk of Keyonte George slipping I’d really like for the spurs to grab him if there’s a chance

That would be a great pick after 20.

[jesterbobman]

I think going through the lottery - mid teens teams for who'd value multiple picks over their one pick this year.

Charlotte, Portland, Houston, Detroit (NO - Unless it's a massive 7 picks for 1 overpay from us, of they can flip 5 and 36 for 6 and 11 if Orlando is thirsty)...
Orlando - maybe 11 is available if they don't like the fit of options at 11, though they'll probably get a shooter immediately (e.g, Dick)
Indiana - No
Washington - Maybe? Should be looking to rebuild, don't have a ton of assets coming in (are net out 1 1st round pick to NYK) might prefer the expected value of lots of picks.
Utah (no, has a treasure trove)
Dallas - Maybe, for depth, to get rid of a bad deal. Something like 10, Bertans, for Royce O'Neale, 21 and 22 probably works better than future picks alone.
OKC - No (Treasure trove of assets)
Toronto - Maybe with their pick in 2024 back and something else, so the full tank job is more available as an option
NOH: Maybe, future salaries could be incredibly high with Zion / BI / CJ / Herb / Trey Murphy.
Atlanta: Maybe, though they'd probably demand their pick back (possible, though I'd decline on expected value)
LAL: Maybe Available, given a focus on depth around stars.
Miami: Need cheap contracts, maybe (particularly to dump long term $)
GSW: Maybe, same financial incentives as other contenders.

After that, it's mostly teams that might look to move a current pick for a future one (e.g, Charlotte at 27 with all their seconds, Indiana at 26 or 29, both of whom could look to move it to a contender in a deal like the OKC - Denver deal), Portland at 23 who could move it for a Veteran). Doesn't seem like much point moving up to the late 20s / 30 unless someone obviously falls, at which point the price should be cheap.

[DPG21920]

Am I the only one Lukewarm on Bufkin? I don’t hate him or anything, but I’m not excited about him personally at this point.

[CGD]

My guess is they'd def want a player now. Dallas will want a player now at 10. Orlando is a question mark at 11. They could possssibly take a basket of picks.

I don't see the Spurs exiling Keldon, or anyone, to a shitty rebuild in Washington.

I agree, but it would be super interesting if this got rolled up in the potential Beal to Miami deal.

Basically, WAS comes away with: Herro, 18 and 33 this year, and a bunch of Spurs future picks. We can also eat Lowery for them.

In exchange we get 8.

Miami loves it since they keep their future picks for other stuff, but is it enough for WAS?

[Mr. Body]

Am I the only one Lukewarm on Bufkin? I don’t hate him or anything, but I’m not excited about him personally at this point.

At first blush, he seems just okay, but once you look closer and see his trajectory and what he's doing, he starts showing a ton of promise. Here's a video of how tight he guards the perimeter and how good his hands are.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFfbnN64I04

[scott]

Don’t get me wrong I don’t think he gets us into the top 3 either. I was just saying that would be the only level of potential I’d justify moving him for. There’s no pressing need to move him for a pick somewhere in the 5-10 range. Creates too big of a hole offensively. Plus he’s on a great contract and he’s a great teammate and locker room guy.

Definitely agree with this. To many people want to roll the dice and trade Keldon for... someone who maybe will end up as good as Keldon. Trading something proven for potential upside is a fun concept, but always involves the strong possibility that ball of potential never amounts to what you gave up for him.

[BacktoBasics]

Definitely agree with this. To many people want to roll the dice and trade Keldon for... someone who maybe will end up as good as Keldon. Trading something proven for potential upside is a fun concept, but always involves the strong possibility that ball of potential never amounts to what you gave up for him.
Video game GM’s would trade Keldon. Because that’s the 2k lifestyle.

[Mr. Body]

I agree, but it would be super interesting if this got rolled up in the potential Beal to Miami deal.

Basically, WAS comes away with: Herro, 18 and 33 this year, and a bunch of Spurs future picks. We can also eat Lowery for them.

In exchange we get 8.

Miami loves it since they keep their future picks for other stuff, but is it enough for WAS?

Damn it, this is the kind of trade that seems plausible. I have no idea how you can get this done before the draft, the rules and what it would take logistically to do. I don't think the Spurs need to drop a bunch of picks. The Beal contract is so horrendous. I think there needs to be another piece going to Washington just to make the salaries work.

EDIT: Right, the Spurs need to drop picks to get the 8. Problem is the trade is possible btw Heat and Wiz already. Not sure why the Spurs have to get involved.

[kobyz]

I know it’s kind of unconventional and maybe even redundant with Branham on the team, but there’s talk of Keyonte George slipping I’d really like for the spurs to grab him if there’s a chance

Don't see the point in drafting George, seems like a Blake Wesley only less athletic

[kobyz]

Wouldn't mind to trade Keldon for Jarace Walker, i see a lot Metta World Peace in him, has the toughness we need around Wemby, i think he's much better fit on the team, it would give us a mind blowing front court of Sochan/Wemby/Walker that if it work out every one of them is switchable and can be the 3, 4 or 5 on every single moment...
Future PG/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby/Walker

[exstatic]

Am I the only one Lukewarm on Bufkin? I don’t hate him or anything, but I’m not excited about him personally at this point.

My favorite thing about him is that he’s a 19 YO TWO and done, like Vassell was, and massively improved between seasons one and two.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Damn it, this is the kind of trade that seems plausible. I have no idea how you can get this done before the draft, the rules and what it would take logistically to do. I don't think the Spurs need to drop a bunch of picks. The Beal contract is so horrendous. I think there needs to be another piece going to Washington just to make the salaries work.

EDIT: Right, the Spurs need to drop picks to get the 8. Problem is the trade is possible btw Heat and Wiz already. Not sure why the Spurs have to get involved.

Beal has the only no-trade clause in the NBA right now, so that will limit trading partners and likely reduce the price. The Wizards aren't going to get 4 or 5 FRPs for him.

[CGD]

Damn it, this is the kind of trade that seems plausible. I have no idea how you can get this done before the draft, the rules and what it would take logistically to do. I don't think the Spurs need to drop a bunch of picks. The Beal contract is so horrendous. I think there needs to be another piece going to Washington just to make the salaries work.

EDIT: Right, the Spurs need to drop picks to get the 8. Problem is the trade is possible btw Heat and Wiz already. Not sure why the Spurs have to get involved.

You’re right that Spurs don’t need to get involved, but they should want to. That said I wonder from WAS pov if there is a question about the other player/s that have to come back in a Herro trade. Would they prefer someone else eat that to avoid 1) the higher returning salary hit (Herro+Lowery I think is more than Beals deal), or 2) long term money (Robinson).

But that’s probably a secondary consideration. They need to be enticed with a generous package of spurs future picks especially if Miami balks at sending out much more than a single FRP. That, while also being able to say they get to select in this draft (that’s where 18 and 33 are important) to initiate their rebuild in earnest.

Question is how much is too much for spurs? And is the player at 8 really worth it.

[JPB]

Evey year, it's the same...

Read this forum a few months ago and after #2 (Vic and Scoot) there's a huge drop off, then after 8 or so, nobody of real interest, it's a mediocre draft... Then the closer the draft, the more beautiful it becomes, with nice players and possible targets everywhere...

That's part of excitment and wishful thinking because we want to see nice prospects everywhere and the possibilty to get one... Truth is , like every year, is the vast majority of those FRPs prospects will become either, random role players or busts, some even disappearing after3 or 4 years... A few will become stars and maybe a couple superstars... And the ones who will really make it for the most part are not the ones who will be pimped or discussed (here or anywhere) pre-draft...

It never happens that the guys picked in the lottery end up as the 14 best players of their drafts, not even close... Most of them won't be star or nothing else than second hand role players, while guys picked in the 20s or even second round will. But by now all these kids are beautiful.

[Mr. Body]

You’re right that Spurs don’t need to get involved, but they should want to. That said I wonder from WAS pov if there is a question about the other player/s that have to come back in a Herro trade. Would they prefer someone else eat that to avoid 1) the higher returning salary hit (Herro+Lowery I think is more than Beals deal), or 2) long term money (Robinson).

But that’s probably a secondary consideration. They need to be enticed with a generous package of spurs future picks especially if Miami balks at sending out much more than a single FRP. That, while also being able to say they get to select in this draft (that’s where 18 and 33 are important) to initiate their rebuild in earnest.

Question is how much is too much for spurs? And is the player at 8 really worth it.

This is why I hate the trade idea -- I'm now starting to think about it too much. :)

The Spurs' key capability in getting involved here is absorbing salary. Obviously they want that #8 pick. Washington no doubt wants to use it themselves, but in dealing Beal dropping to #18 isn't bad and the Spurs may slide in to entice things while they think about their future.

Washington is in bad salary shape. Miami is in abysmal salary shape. I feel like the trade has to be something like Beal for Herro and Duncan Robinson as a basis just to match. This is what I've seen on those teams' boards. All three contracts are horrible. Kyle Lowry can go instead of DR, as an expiring this year, but this doesn't help Miami at all so probably won't want to do it.

So we face the difficulty (for our purposes) of Washington losing Beal and #8 for Tyler Herro and #18. They're not getting cap relief, they're losing the two best parts of the deal and getting the two second best.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington_wizards/

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami_heat/

The Spurs can get involved by throwing in future draft picks, absorbing salary, and sending players. I 100% doubt they would send Keldon Johnson to Washington - that's just being an asshole - although I think the Wizards would love to have him. They can throw in future picks, but none of them are as valuable as the #8 this year. And/or they can absorb salary. Which means taking on Duncan Robinson and putting in expirings instead. That's $18-19 million the Wizards won't have to pay for the following two years. I don't see any obvious salary the Wizards could dump right now to make sense.

Thing is, Washington isn't in totally shitty shape salary-wise. So we have to entice them with absorbing something from the trade and future picks. I'm not sure that works.

[exstatic]

This is why I hate the trade idea -- I'm now starting to think about it too much. :)

The Spurs' key capability in getting involved here is absorbing salary. Obviously they want that #8 pick. Washington no doubt wants to use it themselves, but in dealing Beal dropping to #18 isn't bad and the Spurs may slide in to entice things while they think about their future.

Washington is in bad salary shape. Miami is in abysmal salary shape. I feel like the trade has to be something like Beal for Herro and Duncan Robinson as a basis just to match. This is what I've seen on those teams' boards. All three contracts are horrible. Kyle Lowry can go instead of DR, as an expiring this year, but this doesn't help Miami at all so probably won't want to do it.

So we face the difficulty (for our purposes) of Washington losing Beal and #8 for Tyler Herro and #18. They're not getting cap relief, they're losing the two best parts of the deal and getting the two second best.

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/washington_wizards/

https://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami_heat/

The Spurs can get involved by throwing in future draft picks, absorbing salary, and sending players. I 100% doubt they would send Keldon Johnson to Washington - that's just being an asshole - although I think the Wizards would love to have him. They can throw in future picks, but none of them are as valuable as the #8 this year. And/or they can absorb salary. Which means taking on Duncan Robinson and putting in expirings instead. That's $18-19 million the Wizards won't have to pay for the following two years. I don't see any obvious salary the Wizards could dump right now to make sense.

Thing is, Washington isn't in totally shitty shape salary-wise. So we have to entice them with absorbing something from the trade and future picks. I'm not sure that works.

Which is it? IMO, they're in terrible salary shape for a rebuilding team.

[Mr. Body]

Which is it? IMO, they're in terrible salary shape for a rebuilding team.

Maybe you can do some research yourself?

I should have edited the first one. They've got a lot of crap this year but lose contracts like Porzingis after this next season, assuming he doesn't want to stay. Kuzma is a question, too. If they S&T Kuzma and possibly get something for Porzingis they add salary. But after this coming season, they drop down to $65 million even with Beal. Granted, they have basically no players on the roster, but they have no other bad contracts at that point. They basically only have one bad contract even now although it's a doozy.

[exstatic]

Maybe you can do some research yourself?

I should have edited the first one. They've got a lot of crap this year but lose contracts like Porzingis after the next season, assuming he doesn't want to stay. Kuzma is a question, too. If they S&T Kuzma and possibly get something for Porzingis they add salary. But after this coming season, they drop down to $65 million even with Beal. Granted, they have basically no players on the roster, but they have no other bad contracts at that point.

I think Porzingod has realized that he won't get anything near what he's making now if he opts out, and will not do so. My guess is that if they are committed to the bonfire rebuild, they'll keep Kristaps, and let him roll off next summer, rather than accept incoming salary. They'll want to clean their books, and start accumulating picks. This is going to sound odd, but I'm not sure they really want Herro. He won't be there at the end of the rebuild, because he won't want to be, and his 4/$120M contract would be a drag on their books. Maybe they would get him just to flip him, but it seems more logical to involve another team or teams in the initial trade and cash out of that contract immediately.

[mo7888]

I think Porzingod has realized that he won't get anything near what he's making now if he opts out, and will not do so. My guess is that if they are committed to the bonfire rebuild, they'll keep Kristaps, and let him roll off next summer, rather than accept incoming salary. They'll want to clean their books, and start accumulating picks. This is going to sound odd, but I'm not sure they really want Herro. He won't be there at the end of the rebuild, because he won't want to be, and his 4/$120M contract would be a drag on their books. Maybe they would get him just to flip him, but it seems more logical to involve another team or teams in the initial trade and cash out of that contract immediately.

Thats kinda my thought. I think they'd much rather keep #8 and move Herro elsewhere. Thats why I posed the question in another thread about getting involved to take Herro (24 years old) as our PG and let Washington take Lowry for cap space next year.

[Mr. Body]

I think Porzingod has realized that he won't get anything near what he's making now if he opts out, and will not do so. My guess is that if they are committed to the bonfire rebuild, they'll keep Kristaps, and let him roll off next summer, rather than accept incoming salary. They'll want to clean their books, and start accumulating picks. This is going to sound odd, but I'm not sure they really want Herro. He won't be there at the end of the rebuild, because he won't want to be, and his 4/$120M contract would be a drag on their books. Maybe they would get him just to flip him, but it seems more logical to involve another team or teams in the initial trade and cash out of that contract immediately.

Honestly the Wizards seem to be in great shape. They're finally rebuilding. They just hired decent executives. Their owner has said "do what it takes."

Definitely, Porzingis is fine taking that money. Who wouldn't? But he's a $36 million expiring. I can see a contender going after him by the deadline for a late-season punch. Washington could really make out there.

I agree about Herro. Washington will need someone to put butts in the seats and need a scorer. Herro can go pseudo-star and shoot all he wants. Once they get rid of Beal, they will need to pay some other players, but they're actually in position to absorb contracts, etc. Anyway, they're not in the position of future draft picks galore that we are, but now that they've decided to rebuild they're not really in bad shape.

The only first rounder they owe goes to NYK next year, but it's 1-12/1-10/1-8. Poor Knicks probably won't ever see that pick.

Back to us. There's no reason why Washington wouldn't find extra picks in future drafts attractive. I just don't see how to jar that #8 loose.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Washington is going to burn it to the ground and start over. We're talking process era Sixers bottom out. And it's way past time for it. The only thing they (should) care about is accumulating as many picks as they can. There is next to zero chance of them giving up 8 in this draft unless it's to get two picks just slightly further back in this draft.

I'm not as high on Black as everybody else around here. I like his iq and defense, but there's something about the pace he plays with that I'm not in love with. He seems easy to speed up and becomes very mistake prone. Maybe that part of his game matures but for what it would cost to move up into that range, it's not worth the risk especially with his jumper being as questionable as it is. For a much lower entry fee, I'd rather them move up for Cason Wallace. Or just hold tight or move up slightly to take one of the high upside, switchable wings like Rayan Rupert, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Phillips or Olivier Maxence Prosper.

[Degoat]

I hope this isn’t the case but I just have a weird feeling #33 gets traded for future draft capital and we use #44 on a 2 way guy

[DrSteffo]

It makes a lot of sense to try and move up in this draft. The only other player I would consider is Taylor Hendricks. The reason would be to add a big who can really shoot and also be a good defender. I like Sochan a lot and also Jarace Walker who is in the same range as Hendricks, but we need at least four bigs so no problem. Wemby, Sochan, Collins and either Hendricks or Walker would be a formidable force years to come. One of them will probably be injured or need a rest so depth is needed. I also wouldn't mind drafting a PG and either Black, Wallace or Bufkin would be great.

[Mr. Body]

Washington is going to burn it to the ground and start over. We're talking process era Sixers bottom out. And it's way past time for it. The only thing they (should) care about is accumulating as many picks as they can. There is next to zero chance of them giving up 8 in this draft unless it's to get two picks just slightly further back in this draft.

I'm not as high on Black as everybody else around here. I like his iq and defense, but there's something about the pace he plays with that I'm not in love with. He seems easy to speed up and becomes very mistake prone. Maybe that part of his game matures but for what it would cost to move up into that range, it's not worth the risk especially with his jumper being as questionable as it is. For a much lower entry fee, I'd rather them move up for Cason Wallace. Or just hold tight or move up slightly to take one of the high upside, switchable wings like Rayan Rupert, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Phillips or Olivier Maxence Prosper.

Black is definitely mistake prone. He can tighten and improve the handle, he doesn't place his passes quite right sometimes.

But his pace really is his own pace. He's one of those guards who does things on his own timing. I really don't see defenses speeding him up. He's like Paul in that way. And he uses things like bumps and hostage dribbles to get defenders behind him really well for his age. Because his base is so strong he can keep a player locked behind him while he lets his roll guy move.

[rjv]

i'm okay with getting black but i just don't what it would be that the spurs would have to surrender in order to move up but it's not going to be keldon.

[Kevin]

Not sure why people are so attached to Keldon. He has a knack for scoring but he's a bad defender, a weak rebounder for his position and just shot 32% from three last season. The guy has a ton of holes in his game. Now is the time to swing for upside.

[exstatic]

Not sure why people are so attached to Keldon. He has a knack for scoring but he's a bad defender, a weak rebounder for his position and just shot 32% from three last season. The guy has a ton of holes in his game. Now is the time to swing for upside.

He had a bad shooting year when we were trying to lose games. The year before, he shot 40% and his career mark is 36.3%, enough to make his pump fake credible and allow him to drive. He's an extremely strong finisher.

[DPG21920]

From Haynes


Pacers Make No. 7 Pick Available

The Indiana Pacers have made the No. 7 pick available for a trade, sources tell B/R. The Pacers are said to be in the market for a starting-caliber wing.

The Boston Celtics are fielding calls on the multitude of quality guards on their roster, sources tell B/R. With Marcus Smart, Derrick White, Malcolm Brogdon and Payton Pritchard all deserving of playing time, Boston is looking to create some position balance, sources say.

If black or someone falls there would Keldon get it done? Would it be worth it?

[Mr. Body]

From Haynes



If black or someone falls there would Keldon get it done? Would it be worth it?

A lot of teams like they're not liking these players.

Keldon is a starting caliber wing.

[BatManu20]

1669483032485429252

[scott]

Thats kinda my thought. I think they'd much rather keep #8 and move Herro elsewhere. Thats why I posed the question in another thread about getting involved to take Herro (24 years old) as our PG and let Washington take Lowry for cap space next year.

And, the question must be asked - if Washington is hitting reset and rebuilding, why would they want to trade #8? The best case scenario for their rebuild (and for us) would be that we send a pick to WAS to help their rebuild (and maybe we even send some SRPs to MIA) and get Herro. I think we are too focused on getting compensated to facilitate a trade rather than being a participant who is buying in the deal.

[Mr. Body]

Mixed initial reaction on Pacers board. One guy suggests giving the lot of their picks in this draft, lol.

[Mr. Body]

And, the question must be asked - if Washington is hitting reset and rebuilding, why would they want to trade #8? The best case scenario for their rebuild (and for us) would be that we send a pick to WAS to help their rebuild (and maybe we even send some SRPs to MIA) and get Herro. I think we are too focused on getting compensated to facilitate a trade rather than being a participant who is buying in the deal.

The 8 doesn't exactly project as a star, although the players could be very good and complementary. It might be more attractive to get multiple picks instead, but it's doubtful.

No interest in Herro. His salary is disgusting and he's unplayable as anything more than a microwave scorer. His defense is atrocious. We'd get killed.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Indiana could be a nice landing spot for Keldon. I think he would thrive there with a top-notch facilitator in Haliburton who is also a major scoring threat and one of the best spacing bigs in the league in Myles Turner he would go back to his optimal role as a non-primary scorer and with Indiana's spacing would open up driving lanes for him. They are a team that seems to be up and coming as well. Keldon likely pushes them into the playoffs. Although I don't know if the Spurs would want more than just 7 for him or if the Pacers think he is not enough for 7. I think I'd throw in 33 and look for a future FRP from Indiana.

[RC_Drunkford]

the problem for the Wizards that Beal doesn't only have a say on where he gets traded to, but also what he gets traded for

[spurraider21]

the problem for the Wizards that Beal doesn't only have a say on where he gets traded to, but also what he gets traded for
yep, thats how kobe nixed the trade to the bulls. his red line was he didnt want Deng leaving chicago as part of the deal

[DPG21920]

Imagine being held hostage by DeRozan lite and paying him 200M. Spurs never did that thank goodness.

[CGD]

Imagine being held hostage by DeRozan lite and paying him 200M. Spurs never did that thank goodness.

Yikes at the thought of a DeRozan “lite”

[Dejounte]

Highly doubt KJ gets involved in a trade this summer, but maybe next. Imagine how cruel it is to invite him to put his autograph on the wood flooring of the new training facility only to be shipped out next week.

[rascal]

Highly doubt KJ gets involved in a trade this summer, but maybe next. Imagine how cruel it is to invite him to put his autograph on the wood flooring of the new training facility only to be shipped out next week.

Keldon is the most likely to be traded in a package with draft picks.

He is one of the few who have any trade value and the Spurs would be all right trading.
His skills can easily be replaced with a future draft pick if the spurs can move into the first round and get a PG they like.

[Dejounte]

Keldon is the most likely to be traded in a package with draft picks.

He is one of the few who have any trade value and the Spurs would be all right trading.
His skills can easily be replaced with a future draft pick if the spurs can move into the first round and get a PG they like.

I didn’t say he was irreplaceable. Read my post more carefully. Other players have value: Branham, Vassell. The Spurs have to give up something of more value if we’re being realistic about these trade proposals.

[Degoat]

If the spurs move up in the draft it’s for a pick package Imo they’re not trading Keldon yet.

[JuneJive]

If the spurs move up in the draft it’s for a pick package Imo they’re not trading Keldon yet.

Exactly.

[BackHome]

Yeah but your going to give up a lot of picks to crack the first round top 10 - Your talking multiple first rounders to get a team to give up what they have

[Ariel]

Highly doubt KJ gets involved in a trade this summer, but maybe next. Imagine how cruel it is to invite him to put his autograph on the wood flooring of the new training facility only to be shipped out next week.
I tend to agree, but for a different reason. The Spurs just signed him to a long term deal at a team friendly discount. Now if the Spurs start trading friendly deals the second they come into effect, the next guy who's considering a discount just to remain on the team may want to think twice about it, since he may very well have no saying in where he fulfills that ccontract. That may not be the best idea, with Vassell in that exact same situation now and Sochan and Branham likely in 2 years. Besides, Keldon is coming off a relatively inefficient season that lowered his trade value. The more reasonable scenario would be keeping him on the team, growing along the rest of the team a year or two, and if an opportunity comes along with a convenient valuation then yes, move him. But the timing right now may not be the best for the aforementioned reasons.

[Mr. Body]

I tend to agree, but for a different reason. The Spurs just signed him to a long term deal at a team friendly discount. Now if the Spurs start trading friendly deals the second they come into effect, the next guy who's considering a discount just to remain on the team may want to think twice about it, since he may very well have no saying in where he fulfills that ccontract. That may not be the best idea, with Vassell in that exact same situation now and Sochan and Branham likely in 2 years. Besides, Keldon is coming off a relatively inefficient season that lowered his trade value. The more reasonable scenario would be keeping him on the team, growing along the rest of the team a year or two, and if an opportunity comes along with a convenient valuation then yes, move him. But the timing right now may not be the best for the aforementioned reasons.

Didn't they trade White and Murray just after extending them?

[scott]

Didn't they trade White and Murray just after extending them?

IIRC, both were a couple of years into their extensions (and probably 3 years removed from actually signing them). And somewhat to Ariel’s point, DW got traded to a good situation and DJM seems to have almost picked his spot. Both player-friendly moves.

[lefty20]

Didn't they trade White and Murray just after extending them?

White was traded in the 1st year(49 games) of his 4 yr extension.

Murray was traded after finishing 2 years of his 4 yr extension.

[BacktoBasics]

Keldon is the most likely to be traded in a package with draft picks.

He is one of the few who have any trade value and the Spurs would be all right trading.
His skills can easily be replaced with a future draft pick if the spurs can move into the first round and get a PG they like.

To say his skills could “easily” be replaced by a future pick is really shortsighted. Most players drafted don’t produce numbers like he does. Most are out of the league within a few years.

Unless you’re returning equal or better production this off-season is a really stupid time to trade him barring a high level prospect such as scoot. It would have to be a really lopsided trade to move a guy on a golden contract who’s essentially slated to carry a good portion of the offensive load while you acclimate your franchise player to a new league, new team, new country.

Expecting your rookie to carry a burdensome offense load in order to move a proven talent and great locker room guy for a what-if draft pick that comes with moderate potential is just shitty GMing.

The trade Keldon crowd is just stupid.

Don’t get me wrong though if Branham or some other pick ends up producing at a high rate or we sign a redundant player that for whatever reason becomes a better fit then I have no problem trading Keldon. I just think doing it now is a really bad idea.

I got no problem trading Keldon if it’s an upgrade either. Not gonna happen but if they want to move Keldon with picks for Brown I might be alright with that etc.

[Ariel]

White was traded in the 1st year(49 games) of his 4 yr extension.

Murray was traded after finishing 2 years of his 4 yr extension.
Derrick was drafted in '17, signed an extension in '20 that came into effect in '21, played half season on the extension with the Spurs and was traded in February '22 with 3 and a half years remaining in his contract. In this case, it's important to note that he was sent to a contender with a familiar coaching staff, so they were careful with him.
Dejounte was drafted in '16, signed an extension in '19 that came into effect in '20, played 2 seasons with the Spurs and was traded in June '22 with 2 years remaining in his contract.

[rascal]

To say his skills could “easily” be replaced by a future pick is really shortsighted. Most players drafted don’t produce numbers like he does. Most are out of the league within a few years.

Unless you’re returning equal or better production this off-season is a really stupid time to trade him barring a high level prospect such as scoot. It would have to be a really lopsided trade to move a guy on a golden contract who’s essentially slated to carry a good portion of the offensive load while you acclimate your franchise player to a new league, new team, new country.

Expecting your rookie to carry a burdensome offense load in order to move a proven talent and great locker room guy for a what-if draft pick that comes with moderate potential is just shitty GMing.

The trade Keldon crowd is just stupid.

Don’t get me wrong though if Branham or some other pick ends up producing at a high rate or we sign a redundant player that for whatever reason becomes a better fit then I have no problem trading Keldon. I just think doing it now is a really bad idea.

I got no problem trading Keldon if it’s an upgrade either. Not gonna happen but if they want to move Keldon with picks for Brown I might be alright with that etc.

Then who do you want to trade? Or you're not willing to trade anyone. Have to be realistic with your trade offers. You're not getting Brown for Keldon and picks. Boston wants an upgrade too.

[BacktoBasics]

Then who do you want to trade? Or you're not willing to trade anyone. Have to be realistic with your trade offers. You're not getting Brown for Keldon and picks. Boston wants an upgrade too.

I’d package picks if the right offer is on the table. I also wouldn’t be desperate to make moves. No one is untradable so I’m not saying that but I think Vassell, Keldon, Sochan and Wemby is a good core to run with at least this season.

Right now the buzz is to trade Keldon but I think unless you’re returning equal or better production I think that’s a bad move. Vassell and Keldon will take a ton of pressure off Wemby on the offensive end.

I don’t think it would be wise to trade away a guy who’s prepped and ready to carry the offensive load unless you can replace that right away.

I’d hate to see Wemby and Vassell be forced to carry the offense. I think that’s a bad idea.

[rascal]

The Spurs are one of the least talented teams in the league yet people don't want to trade any of their players to move up in the draft.

[BacktoBasics]

The Spurs are one of the least talented teams in the league yet people don't want to trade any of their players to move up in the draft.

Based on a tanked season. You have a relatively cohesive team that seemed to have some level of chemistry. Most of us feel that if we weren’t tanking we’d be a lot closer to .500.

No one is intradable but it’s dumb to move production on the available potential after 5.

[Mr. Body]

Keldon became a thing once picks 6, Orlando, and especially 7, Indiana, were declared to be on the market. He's the only basis the Spurs have to get to those picks. Whether the FO would do it is another question.

I don't see any way to get into the top 10 using only a basket of picks. None of those teams need to get off salary, either.

The 10, 11, possibly the 18, 21, 22, and like the 19 (GSW) might be available for future picks. A team like Dallas requires active, useful players out of this offseason. Overall, the Spurs could try to 'buy' a pick in the late teens or early twenties using cap room and a future pick and seconds, and then use this to entice a Dallas-type team that needs something out of this year. By then you're looking at possibly three future picks to get into the first round again. That's just the cost of manufacturing a late lottery pick out of nothing.

[lefty20]

The Spurs are one of the least talented teams in the league yet people don't want to trade any of their players to move up in the draft.

It's better to overpay for a know commodity instead of breaking the bank for a youngin who may or may not pan out. Too many fans get caught up in trying to make a trade just for the sake of trading. Running a franchise like you're playing 2k is a surefire way of running it into the ground.

[JPB]

The Spurs are one of the least talented teams in the league yet people don't want to trade any of their players to move up in the draft.

For a young prospect who will take a few years to develop, if he actually does and maybe not to Keldon's level...And some people want to add picks at that...
Keldon is a valualbe player, these kids are total unknown and I don't see any (except Scoot but he's off limits) worth even just trading Keldon for. Yeah some people are definitely too happy about this draft and want to make a move just for the sake of it... Not sure spurs are that happy.

[rascal]

For young a prospect who will take a few years to develop, if he actually does and maybe not to Keldon's level...And some people want to ass picks at that...
Keldon is a valualbe player, these kids are total unknown and I don't see any (except Scoot but he's off limits) worth even just trading Keldon for

All players in the draft are unknown.

The Spurs are still in building mode and trying to build a future championship team around wemby.

Moving into the lottery this year when there are very solid options at PG, a position that the spurs need an upgrade at and grabbing a player with lottery upside is a smart play as none of the future draft picks are guaranteed to be top ten picks or even lottery picks and players in the top ten/lottery hit with higher success rates.

[Kirbyk21]

Personally I like Keldon but trade him in a heart beat for this…opens up $20 mil in Salary and hopefully we get Black…

we would have a crap ton of space to sign a center (Naz Reid?) + get Chris Paul to mentor the team…

PG : Paul / Black / Graham
SG: Vassell / Branham /Graham / Langford if we resign
SF: Sochan/ McD / Diop
PF: Wemby / McD / Sando / Bassey
C: Reid / Collins / Sando / Bassey

plus a ton of picks in the future….

I don’t know what it would take to get pacers pick but of course
the stereotypical trade analyzer tells me Keldon plus our two seconds get it….

maybe you give up the crappy hornets first in it?

id probably do it?

[rankingtear]

Harder to find a wing. You put yourself in a worse position in terms of team building. You would be competing with half of the league to get a starting level wing player. Instead of securing that spot for 18 mil you now need to pay 30 mil for a comparable one.

[objective]

Never been a big Keldon fan but I don't like anyone from picks 6-14 enough to trade him for unless Amen Thompson slips.

I like Coulibaly and Cason, but not so much to leave a big hole in the roster, would rather package multiple picks together to get those guys.

I was listening to a Pacers podcast where the subject was "Straight up players for #7 proposals" and of course Keldon (+ more Spurs picks) was one of them and I think those pacer fan hosts really didn't understand how Keldon would affect their team.

1st, they laid out the strange logic that Keldon (and Vassell) wasn't that good because he put up numbers on a bad team. They of course ignored the fact that Halliburton had spent his whole career putting up numbers on trash teams.

Anyway, the conventional wisdom of the national media but especially the Pacer centric media is that Halliburton is so incredible as a creator that he makes everyone sooooo much better. He passes people open using only his eyeballs! He creates the entire world anew when his holy fingers grace the basket-orb, and his cosmic glow glistens an intense never before seen rocketship rise in shot quality and points per shot opportunities for all his earthly teammates, elevating them beyond human boundaries.

That's the perfect teammate for Keldon, who excels as a finisher. If he's getting the ball in great positions on the move from Godiburton his scoring will rise and his efficiency will soar. Who was creating for him in San Antonio? Himself and a menagerie of on ball experiments of Vassell, of Poeltl hand offs, of Jones, primo, Richardson, Sochan, Graham, Branham, Wesley ...

No doubt in my mind Keldon would score 25 a night on Indiana, they would be lucky to get him for #7

[Mr. Body]

People never watch Spurs games, yet have big opinions about the players. Then when the players get traded, it's all like "Man, we need a player like Derrick White, who knew how good he was?"

[objective]

People never watch Spurs games, yet have big opinions about the players. Then when the players get traded, it's all like "Man, we need a player like Derrick White, who knew how good he was?"

Absolutely.

As soon as DeRozan was in Chicago, a switch flipped for the media: "Wow, who knew that DeRozan could pass like this? His defense isn't really that bad either. Let's rank him on an MVP ladder every week!"

They do have those big opinions. I still remember in 2019 when Dunc'd On did their yearly awards show and declared DeRozan winner of "Worst Defender in the NBA". Clearly they didn't actually watch the Spurs play because he wasn't even the worst Spur on defense, Bryn Forbes was starting next to him for crying out loud.

[BacktoBasics]

The likelihood is significantly higher that picks 5-14 will bust than those picks being as good as Keldon let alone better. I completely understand if you’re looking at super high potential like scoot and maybe even a freak athlete like Amen but the chances of producing a better player than Keldon with picks 5-14 isn’t an intelligent gamble.

Take a swing once you’ve replaced his productivity.

[kobyz]

I think with Orlando having very young roster with already too much prospects to develop we might could obtain from them #11 for future draft consideration

[JPB]

All players in the draft are unknown.

The Spurs are still in building mode and trying to build a future championship team around wemby.

Moving into the lottery this year when there are very solid options at PG, a position that the spurs need an upgrade at and grabbing a player with lottery upside is a smart play as none of the future draft picks are guaranteed to be top ten picks or even lottery picks and players in the top ten/lottery hit with higher success rates.

Indeed, all these players are unknow and that's the whole point, we can't affirm there are "very solid options at PG", specially most are not even lottery projected. We really can't... People are way to happy about these young players and this draft, most of these teens won't make it.... Spurs had their pick already in this draft, they don't necessaruly HAVE to get another pick. sure if they can take a flyer on another kid for a reasonable prize, but losing Keldion or Devin for them, or good picks, doesn't make sense.

Spurs should upgrade with a pick in the 20s at the PG postiion from the pick they got last year in the 20s (Wesley)....Then if this pick does'nt pan out, do they upgrade next year with another pick...?

You can upgrade via trades to get a proven quality vet, that's where you'll eventually trade KJ or DV... That's known value for know value... Spurs won't lose several picks and/or Keldon/Vassel for any of these unproven PGs... This isn't Pro Basketball GM and spurs will be much more cautious with their assets than fans are.

[JPB]

Here's a detailed analysis of FRP value:
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/nba_first_round

Notable from that analysis:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_441,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png

After 20, you basically have like 65 to 80% chances to get an unproductive, a bench or a rotation guy. In the lottery, that's 50% chances. (With some surprising trends for a few spots... So yeah, it's important to value what you have and not overvalue what you could get for that.

"For every Lebron James, there's an Anthony Bennett.
For every Tim Duncan, there's a Michael Olowokandi."

[exstatic]

Didn't they trade White and Murray just after extending them?

Murray was traded two years into his four year extension, one of the reasons we got such a good return. White was traded most of one season into his extension.

[exstatic]

Keldon became a thing once picks 6, Orlando, and especially 7, Indiana, were declared to be on the market. He's the only basis the Spurs have to get to those picks. Whether the FO would do it is another question.

I don't see any way to get into the top 10 using only a basket of picks. None of those teams need to get off salary, either.

The 10, 11, possibly the 18, 21, 22, and like the 19 (GSW) might be available for future picks. A team like Dallas requires active, useful players out of this offseason. Overall, the Spurs could try to 'buy' a pick in the late teens or early twenties using cap room and a future pick and seconds, and then use this to entice a Dallas-type team that needs something out of this year. By then you're looking at possibly three future picks to get into the first round again. That's just the cost of manufacturing a late lottery pick out of nothing.

OKC got to #11 last year with 3 FRPs. None of them had the possibility of our Toronto pick. One of them was Denver’s pick in this years draft, #27, which they have since flipped. One of them was a Wiz Pick which looked tasty at the time, but, protected 13,11,9 from 2024 on, may not even convey if they blow it up like it appears they will. The 3rd pick was Detroits, protected 19,14,12,10 Starting in 2024. That's not even as good as our Chicago pick.

I’m pretty sure our CHI,CHA,TOR Picks get us into the top 10, if that the way we want to go.

[John B]

It's better to overpay for a know commodity instead of breaking the bank for a youngin who may or may not pan out. Too many fans get caught up in trying to make a trade just for the sake of trading. Running a franchise like you're playing 2k is a surefire way of running it into the ground.

Trading coach favorite GH for a 15th pick.

If PATFO sees something special on Anthony Black, for instance, then I trust that they would do their due diligence to get it done. Personally I like to pair a young potential All-Star defensive starting caliber PG with Wemby. Timmy and Tony, Wemby and Black.

[Mr. Body]

OKC got to #11 last year with 3 FRPs. None of them had the possibility of our Toronto pick. One of them was Denver’s pick in this years draft, #27, which they have since flipped. One of them was a Wiz Pick which looked tasty at the time, but, protected 13,11,9 from 2024 on, may not even convey if they blow it up like it appears they will. The 3rd pick was Detroits, protected 19,14,12,10 Starting in 2024. That's not even as good as our Chicago pick.

I’m pretty sure our CHI,CHA,TOR Picks get us into the top 10, if that the way we want to go.

I don't see a single team in the top 10 who would trade their pick away for the future, though, do you?

[JPB]

Spurs are not trading up in the top 10, specially at all the mentioned prizes, stop fantasizing people.

[objective]

Question:

If a player you like, for arguments sake let's say Cason Wallace or Bilal, slips to 15 and Atlanta, would you want to see the Spurs flip one of the future Atlanta picks back to them to get that pick?

What if Atlanta wants that 2027 pick back as the price?

Would anyone at 15 be worth the potential of a future Atlanta pick? With Quin Snyder, is it safe to assume Atlanta won't be that terrible?

Danny LeRoux of Dunc'd On labeled that 27 pick as the most valuable traded 1st rounder, though Nate Duncan didn't go that far.

[Ariel]

OKC got to #11 last year with 3 FRPs. None of them had the possibility of our Toronto pick. One of them was Denver’s pick in this years draft, #27, which they have since flipped. One of them was a Wiz Pick which looked tasty at the time, but, protected 13,11,9 from 2024 on, may not even convey if they blow it up like it appears they will. The 3rd pick was Detroits, protected 19,14,12,10 Starting in 2024. That's not even as good as our Chicago pick.

I’m pretty sure our CHI,CHA,TOR Picks get us into the top 10, if that the way we want to go.
I agree, but I think Toronto and Chicago have EXCELLENT chances to convey as lottery picks, and Charlotte's chances of coveying improved significantly and may end up even better after the draft and free agency, if new ownership is serious about winning. An 8th seed gives them 2 chances for a playoff spot, and that requires about .500 record, which is attainable with a roster of Lamelo / Rozier, ? via FA/trade, Brandon Miller / Hayward, Miles Bridges/PJ Washington and Mark Williams. With a 2 year span, I like it a hell of a lot better than this time last year, and if it conveys it will sure do so in the mid first round 15-20 at worst.
My point is, we should be VERY careful NOT TO OVERPAY, that's almost all star price you're paying for a prospect who hasn't played a game in the league. Not sure any one target (Black / Bufkin) is worth 3 picks in that range.

[Ariel]

Question:

If a player you like, for arguments sake let's say Cason Wallace or Bilal, slips to 15 and Atlanta, would you want to see the Spurs flip one of the future Atlanta picks back to them to get that pick?

What if Atlanta wants that 2027 pick back as the price?

Would anyone at 15 be worth the potential of a future Atlanta pick? With Quin Snyder, is it safe to assume Atlanta won't be that terrible?

Danny LeRoux of Dunc'd On labeled that 27 pick as the most valuable traded 1st rounder, though Nate Duncan didn't go that far.
No. For one, I don't like any either THAT much (would much rather take Bufkin, for instance) and we have to keep in mind we're trading for PROSPECTS that MAY NOT PAN OUT AT ALL. Giving up an unprotected first for a pick in that range sounds crazy to me. If that's the cost of doing something, I'd rather do nothing.

[mo7888]

Question:

If a player you like, for arguments sake let's say Cason Wallace or Bilal, slips to 15 and Atlanta, would you want to see the Spurs flip one of the future Atlanta picks back to them to get that pick?

What if Atlanta wants that 2027 pick back as the price?

Would anyone at 15 be worth the potential of a future Atlanta pick? With Quin Snyder, is it safe to assume Atlanta won't be that terrible?

Danny LeRoux of Dunc'd On labeled that 27 pick as the most valuable traded 1st rounder, though Nate Duncan didn't go that far.

Nope... not putting the Atlanta picks on the table unless its an all in type of move... and there no pick at #15 worth that type of consideration.

[exstatic]

Question:

If a player you like, for arguments sake let's say Cason Wallace or Bilal, slips to 15 and Atlanta, would you want to see the Spurs flip one of the future Atlanta picks back to them to get that pick?

What if Atlanta wants that 2027 pick back as the price?

Would anyone at 15 be worth the potential of a future Atlanta pick? With Quin Snyder, is it safe to assume Atlanta won't be that terrible?

Danny LeRoux of Dunc'd On labeled that 27 pick as the most valuable traded 1st rounder, though Nate Duncan didn't go that far.

I’m only trading any ATL asset as part of a package for an All Star. That’s about 3X overpay for a mid FRP.

[exstatic]

I agree, but I think Toronto and Chicago have EXCELLENT chances to convey as lottery picks, and Charlotte's chances of coveying improved significantly and may end up even better after the draft and free agency, if new ownership is serious about winning. An 8th seed gives them 2 chances for a playoff spot, and that requires about .500 record, which is attainable with a roster of Lamelo / Rozier, ? via FA/trade, Brandon Miller / Hayward, Miles Bridges/PJ Washington and Mark Williams. With a 2 year span, I like it a hell of a lot better than this time last year, and if it conveys it will sure do so in the mid first round 15-20 at worst.
My point is, we should be VERY careful NOT TO OVERPAY, that's almost all star price you're paying for a prospect who hasn't played a game in the league. Not sure any one target (Black / Bufkin) is worth 3 picks in that range.

An All Star price these days is 4 unprotected FRPs and 2-3 unprotected swaps. See: Durant, Kevin; Gobert, Rudy.

[offset formation]

Here's a detailed analysis of FRP value:
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/nba_first_round

Notable from that analysis:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_441,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png

After 20, you basically have like 65 to 80% chances to get an unproductive, a bench or a rotation guy. In the lottery, that's 50% chances. (With some surprising trends for a few spots... So yeah, it's important to value what you have and not overvalue what you could get for that.

"For every Lebron James, there's an Anthony Bennett.
For every Tim Duncan, there's a Michael Olowokandi."

Like ~30% of all HOFers are 1st picks. Not sure if I'm surprised or not. What's clear is that there's a second spike squarely centered on pick #15

[JPB]

An All Star price these days is 4 unprotected FRPs and 2-3 unprotected swaps. See: Durant, Kevin; Gobert, Rudy.

Yup, reason why spurs will be cautious with their picks....that's before starting to talk about quality role players who will also cost you picks...

[Ariel]

An All Star price these days is 4 unprotected FRPs and 2-3 unprotected swaps. See: Durant, Kevin; Gobert, Rudy.
Bad examples: KD isn't a mere All Star, he's a top 5 player in the NBA. Gobert was a ridiculous overpay that will never happen again.

[BackHome]

It will be interesting to see what current cost are for players who might be traded; LaVine from Chicago and Sikam and OG from Toronto and Ayton from Suns....

[Mr. Body]

Like ~30% of all HOFers are 1st picks. Not sure if I'm surprised or not. What's clear is that there's a second spike squarely centered on pick #15

The 15 spike is. Kawhi Leonard.

[objective]

The 15 spike is. Kawhi Leonard.

Giannis was #15 also

[exstatic]

Bad examples: KD isn't a mere All Star, he's a top 5 player in the NBA. Gobert was a ridiculous overpay that will never happen again.

Except it keeps happening. Dejounte set the market last year for a fringe all star, 3 FRPs and a swap. No agent is going to let a legit all star go for less.

[offset formation]

The 15 spike is. Kawhi Leonard.

He'll definitely add to Steve Nash (HOF, MVPs, All-Stars), but for now all he's registering as is the light green All Star category. And along with Giannis, there will be an unmistakable HOF blip there for a second opportunity at that slot and just on either side of it (statisticallybetween 14-19). Several all star or all rookie appearances for folks like Al Jefferson, Dell Curry, Brent Barry. You can get nice talent there more frequently than not.

[Ariel]

Except it keeps happening. Dejounte set the market last year for a fringe all star, 3 FRPs and a swap. No agent is going to let a legit all star go for less.
What keeps happening? Dejounte commanded 3 firsts and a swap. This is 3 firsts, and the value of firsts rounders is expected to go up. Fringe all star value.

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/krystenpeek/status/1670543542018777088

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/krystenpeek/status/1670543542018777088

He be good for them....Solid player that isn't good enough to impact wins next year so they can keep the pick they owe NY..

[exstatic]

What keeps happening? Dejounte commanded 3 firsts and a swap. This is 3 firsts, and the value of firsts rounders is expected to go up. Fringe all star value.

The upping of the ante in player trades.

You also didn’t say fringe All Star, you just said All Star. That trade directly led to the pick escalation in subsequent trades, and that kind of thing never goes backwards.

[scott]

Here's a detailed analysis of FRP value:
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/nba_first_round

Notable from that analysis:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_740,h_441,al_c,lg_1,q_85,enc_auto/d20f08_173894a41b1d44619fab7e7798e1e8df~mv2.png

After 20, you basically have like 65 to 80% chances to get an unproductive, a bench or a rotation guy. In the lottery, that's 50% chances. (With some surprising trends for a few spots... So yeah, it's important to value what you have and not overvalue what you could get for that.

"For every Lebron James, there's an Anthony Bennett.
For every Tim Duncan, there's a Michael Olowokandi."

Great chart. Pick #12… yikes. Primo never stood a chance :lol

[scott]

Like ~30% of all HOFers are 1st picks. Not sure if I'm surprised or not. What's clear is that there's a second spike squarely centered on pick #15

Giannis, Nephew, Steve Nash. There is your spike.

Brent Barry and Dell Curry also were #15 overall picks.