Reaction: Spurs Trade the 33rd Pick, Draft Sidy Cissoko at 44

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/instant-reaction-spurs-draft-sidy-cissoko/

[Mr. Body]

It does appear like a calculated trade. I wonder who the Spurs had in their tier and how they read the other teams as going before 44. My guess is they weren't high on players some of us were, like Amari Bailey.

Cissoko is a similar prospect to board favorite Rayan Rupert. Sidy might be a better fit, though, as Rupert kind of overlaps a ton with Wesley in terms of defensive potential and position.

Cissoko has a lot of available skills. Willing defender, decent passer, okay vision, etc. Just needs to develop and see. Big problems with his fouls and he seems in the Zach Collins mold of being super chippy at times.

[John B]

I like it. He’s very athletic and seems a hard-worker, plays PG growing so another facilitator for coach Pop. 3pt shooting and clean-up on defense and Spurs got a real good role player with Sidy.

[BatManu20]

He’s got an NBA body already at barely 18 years old which is good. Still a bit raw offensively, needs to continue to develop his 3-point shooting. Shot 30% from 3 on 3.5 attempts/per this season. Not terrible, but that will have to go up. I actually think this is a really good value for where he was drafted tbh. I think he spends most of his first year in Austin, but in a couple years he could be a valuable role player off the bench for us.

Despite trading 33 which I wasn’t a fan of, we also added my boy Sir’Jabari Rice on a two-way, a guy who is a lethal 3-point shooter at 6’4. Overall this was a great draft tbh. I dig it. What really matters most though is that Wemby is a mf’n Spur.

[Bruno]

What's noteworthy is the timing of the 33rd pick trade: Woj announced the trade while the draft was at pick #28.

I don't agree with the idea that Spurs trade #33 because they knew there will still be good players at #44. There are just too much picks between #28 and #44 to have that kind of reasoning. The benefice of that move was also not worth the risk since they only got a couple of second round picks, that they don't need, for #33.

To me, Spurs trade #33 simply because they didn't like the players available at that stage of the draft. Once they saw nothing special happened in the draft (trade opportunity or a player sliding) , they did their plan A and trade the pick.
What happened at #44 is likely a combination of bad trade offers and Cissoko being unexpectedly available. It looks like an opportunity pick.

[heyheymymy]

Maybe they were working on a deal withCHA 27, UTH at 28 or IND 29 that fell through? All had multi picks.

Maybe they wanted Strawther and got word he was going next so they abandoned ship? Maybe they wanted Nnaji and seeing CHA pick NSJ at 27 somehow triggered confirmation that CHA would take a big with 31?

But yeah probably just hanging around to see if something advantageous developed out of that late first landscape before cashing out on 33. The timing seems weird, if you weren't considering the bevy of good players left at #33 why not do that trade sooner in the night? Seems like they were waiting for something that fell through around 27 and when it did they bailed immediately on 33.

[TDMVPDPOY]

is there enough pt to develop new and current players on the roster? are the spurs competing for a playoff spot or still in the process of developing?

[Mr. Body]

is there enough pt to develop new and current players on the roster? are the spurs competing for a playoff spot or still in the process of developing?

Some guys will spend time in Austin. What's nice is that no two players have the same skill sets, so they are sort of developing in their own silos.

[Bruno]

Maybe they were working on a deal withCHA 27, UTH at 28 or IND 29 that fell through? All had multi picks.


I think the most likely is that they had a limited list of players they liked at #33 and once the last name was crossed off (could have been Sasser or Sheppard or Nick Smith jr), they traded the pick.

What happened at this draft is consistent with Spurs saying they want to be patient. They didn't force a trade or draft a player they didn't like.

[JPB]

What's noteworthy is the timing of the 33rd pick trade: Woj announced the trade while the draft was at pick #28.

I don't agree with the idea that Spurs trade #33 because they knew there will still be good players at #44. There are just too much picks between #28 and #44 to have that kind of reasoning. The benefice of that move was also not worth the risk since they only got a couple of second round picks, that they don't need, for #33.

To me, Spurs trade #33 simply because they didn't like the players available at that stage of the draft. Once they saw nothing special happened in the draft (trade opportunity or a player sliding) , they did their plan A and trade the pick.
What happened at #44 is likely a combination of bad trade offers and Cissoko being unexpectedly available. It looks like an opportunity pick.

Spurs just didn't want to add another uncertain prospect for the sake of it, in a team full of them. They really had to LOVE him.

Pop litterally said last night he was happy with what they had and with how the young guys had worked during the summer and spurs need proven talent and experience around Wemby who wants to win quickly. not sure some guys still there at 33 would have been thrilled to spend the year in Austin, which Sidy will...

Getting 2 future SPRs is not a coup but it's still a little something and they liked Sissoko at 44, they could at some point sign under a two way contract, assuming they cut one of Barlow or Champagnie.

[rankingtear]

1672017224230395909

This was an hour before the draft i think. Tanner is also Sochan's agent.

[rankingtear]

1671176384440418304

[JPB]

1672017224230395909

This was an hour before the draft i think. Tanner is also Sochan's agent.

Probably why Dusty assumed (not heard) that.

[CGD]

I’m pleased with the outcome of the draft.

Some of y’all forget that the Josh freakin Richardson trade last winter (and seemingly others in the NBA since) involved 4 (!!) SRPs. It’s ok to build up the reserves for future dealings.

[slick'81]

We got wemby! Everything else is gravy

[Chinook]

What's noteworthy is the timing of the 33rd pick trade: Woj announced the trade while the draft was at pick #28.

I don't agree with the idea that Spurs trade #33 because they knew there will still be good players at #44. There are just too much picks between #28 and #44 to have that kind of reasoning. The benefice of that move was also not worth the risk since they only got a couple of second round picks, that they don't need, for #33.

To me, Spurs trade #33 simply because they didn't like the players available at that stage of the draft. Once they saw nothing special happened in the draft (trade opportunity or a player sliding) , they did their plan A and trade the pick.
What happened at #44 is likely a combination of bad trade offers and Cissoko being unexpectedly available. It looks like an opportunity pick.

While I agree that the Spurs were probably not confident there would be good players at 44, I did say well before the draft that 33 was the most likely pick to be traded. Anyone drafted at 33 was going to be part of the roster crunch, whereas at 44, they'd be in line for a two-way deal. Now, it's not clear where Cissoko is going to be after Rice's signing. But I don't think plan A for 44 was to trade that pick too. I think if anything their plan was to draft someone like Rice and use a two-way on him, but when they saw Cissoko was still available, they went ahead and drafted him instead with the possibility of him being on the roster.

In a way, it's almost certain the Spurs didn't love the value of picks at 33. They traded the pick for basically nothing (I say basically because the seconds are at least after the glut of picks the team currently has), after all. But I don't think they particularly didn't like the players there as much as no one was good enough to make them want to stay in given the issue it'd cause on the roster. As mentioned before, the Spurs should've been able to easily trade up into the 20s to get a guy they liked there, provided they were willing to use cap space. That they didn't suggests to me that they might have a legit plan for that space and weren't willing to just sell it again this year. Remember, some of the floor penalties kick in this season, so the team is likely not going to just sit on it going into the season. So despite having a real incentive to use it and having the opportunity to use it to get into the 20s, the Spurs decided against using it. It's something to keep an eye on.

[John B]

1671176384440418304

The more I hear about this guy, the more I’m convinced he is the right pick. He is a hard-worker who is a team player, a bigger combo who can pass and defend. Very Spursy.

[poopbox]

Doesn't really matter. If Sidy ends up being a rotational player for us I'd be shocked and that would be a major win for us. Our youth and depending on what we do in free agency means he'll probably be playing spot minutes for the kings in 4 years like Metu was.

And again...there is nothing wrong with hoarding second round picks, as they are great for getting deals over the finish line. If you go look at any 10 random nba trades...you probably going to find a shit ton of second round picks in them. I assume that is why the spurs are collecting so many, to make them apart of future trades.

[Dex]

I believe timvp mentioned previously that it was likely the Spurs would trade one of their 2RPs simply because we don't have the space on the roster to add three more bodies.

I was a little surprised it was 33 and not 44, but it sounds like it worked out okay. We still got a good prospect, and add to the treasure trove of picks that Wright has assembled. I'll take it.

That said, after I saw they traded pick 33, I went to sleep because I was exhausted of waiting :lol

[slick'81]

Clearly the spurs couldn't trade up like they wanted. On to free agency

[exstatic]

1672017224230395909

This was an hour before the draft i think. Tanner is also Sochan's agent.

Crusty!

[Bruno]

As mentioned before, the Spurs should've been able to easily trade up into the 20s to get a guy they liked there, provided they were willing to use cap space. That they didn't suggests to me that they might have a legit plan for that space and weren't willing to just sell it again this year. Remember, some of the floor penalties kick in this season, so the team is likely not going to just sit on it going into the season. So despite having a real incentive to use it and having the opportunity to use it to get into the 20s, the Spurs decided against using it. It's something to keep an eye on.

Rumors were mostly (only?) about Spurs getting another lottery pick and there might have been a reason.

Spurs might have seen this draft as being only about 15 players deep. I'm no draft expert but I see quite a gap between Bufkin at #15 and Podziemski at #19. Even if Spurs could have had a late first round pick, they might just not have been interested in.

Salary floor will surely play its part this summer for Spurs but I don't see that as a big deal. If they re-sign Trey and sign a random FA to a $10M/1 year contract, they should be over it.

[LeBowen]

Highlights and reports are hyping up Cissoko as potentially legit starter, some mocks had him in top20, but we have to be realistic, there's a reason why he fell all the way to 44th pick.

Just turned 19 a couple of months ago, so he should've probably stayed in Europe for another year. Definitely Austin bound in the next two seasons.

[leo07251413]

Hey timvp, if both Rupert and Cissoko are there at #44, who would've been the pick, who would've been the pick?
Do you have any intel on that? I'm curious about your own opinion on this as well. Thanks in advance.

[Mr. Body]

Highlights and reports are hyping up Cissoko as potentially legit starter, some mocks had him in top20, but we have to be realistic, there's a reason why he fell all the way to 44th pick.

Just turned 19 a couple of months ago, so he should've probably stayed in Europe for another year. Definitely Austin bound in the next two seasons.

Both G-League Ignite guys fell hard -- Leonard Miller and Sidy Cissoko. That is, other than Scoot. I really wonder what the league thoughts about Ignite are right now. Players coming out of there have not been ready or very good at all.

[LeBowen]

Both G-League Ignite guys fell hard -- Leonard Miller and Sidy Cissoko. That is, other than Scoot. I really wonder what the league thoughts about Ignite are right now. Players coming out of there have not been ready or very good at all.

Yeah, I think that eventually something will have to be done about domestic competitions and player development.
College and Ignite are nowhere near European leagues and as we've seen over the past years international players are way more ready for the NBA in most cases.

Kids in the current domestic system aren't taught to play actual basketball, but to dominate their physically inferior peers.
Obviously, that's always been a thing, but with most good prospects being one and done, NCAA has become a joke if we talk actual level of competition.

There were way too many athletic guards and wings that have shooting as their biggest flaw in this draft.

But NCAA makes generates too much revenue to ever be fundamentally changed.

[Uriel]

What's noteworthy is the timing of the 33rd pick trade: Woj announced the trade while the draft was at pick #28. I don't agree with the idea that Spurs trade #33 because they knew there will still be good players at #44. There are just too much picks between #28 and #44 to have that kind of reasoning. The benefice of that move was also not worth the risk since they only got a couple of second round picks, that they don't need, for #33.To me, Spurs trade #33 simply because they didn't like the players available at that stage of the draft. Once they saw nothing special happened in the draft (trade opportunity or a player sliding) , they did their plan A and trade the pick. What happened at #44 is likely a combination of bad trade offers and Cissoko being unexpectedly available. It looks like an opportunity pick.

[Uriel]

What's noteworthy is the timing of the 33rd pick trade: Woj announced the trade while the draft was at pick #28.

I don't agree with the idea that Spurs trade #33 because they knew there will still be good players at #44. There are just too much picks between #28 and #44 to have that kind of reasoning. The benefice of that move was also not worth the risk since they only got a couple of second round picks, that they don't need, for #33.

To me, Spurs trade #33 simply because they didn't like the players available at that stage of the draft. Once they saw nothing special happened in the draft (trade opportunity or a player sliding) , they did their plan A and trade the pick.
What happened at #44 is likely a combination of bad trade offers and Cissoko being unexpectedly available. It looks like an opportunity pick.
My guess is their Plan A was to trade future first rounders to get into the lottery and pick either Black or Bufkin. That didn’t happen.

Plan B was to hope Ben Sheppard fell to 33. That didn’t happen.

So when Minnesota offered the deal for two future second round picks, they gambled that there were enough decent prospects left on the board that they could get one of them at 44 and not have to get them at 33. So that’s what they did.

[DPG21920]

I’m so annoyed at this trade :lol. Still a great night

[DPG21920]

I think Bruno nailed the logic. The return SA got for 33 was no where near enough to gamble on players they liked still being there. It was such a meh package that it looked like they hated players left in this draft at the time

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, I think that eventually something will have to be done about domestic competitions and player development.
College and Ignite are nowhere near European leagues and as we've seen over the past years international players are way more ready for the NBA in most cases.

Kids in the current domestic system aren't taught to play actual basketball, but to dominate their physically inferior peers.
Obviously, that's always been a thing, but with most good prospects being one and done, NCAA has become a joke if we talk actual level of competition.

There were way too many athletic guards and wings that have shooting as their biggest flaw in this draft.

But NCAA makes generates too much revenue to ever be fundamentally changed.

Agree with everything about a problem with US basketball. I disagree that the problem is the NCAA. I think the problem is the AAU travel circuit, basketball academies, and Ignite and OTE is the next step in this problem. The way the NBA has developed into a one-note, monotonous three-point barrage game contributes.

But it's the AAU system that is creating the problem. The type of basketball is hero-ball oriented, stare-down defenses and isolation heavy. There is very little emphasis on playmaking, seeing the floor, and problem solving in a team-oriented situation. (These are things NCAA at least does somewhat.) American players are good at doing a very basic set of things extremely well over and over. Outside of those situations, they're terrible. Jayson Tatum is perhaps the poster child. He's almost unstoppable. Then, when he can't score individually on his own, he's useless. You see it in international play -- he sucks. The NBA protracts the problem by giving stars tons of free points by way of free throws, too.

[Mr. Body]

My guess is their Plan A was to trade future first rounders to get into the lottery and pick either Black or Bufkin. That didn’t happen.

Plan B was to hope Ben Sheppard fell to 33. That didn’t happen.

So when Minnesota offered the deal for two future second round picks, they gambled that there were enough decent prospects left on the board that they could get one of them at 44 and not have to get them at 33. So that’s what they did.

I think the trade happened before the end of the first round. So maybe they passed once Slawther was gone. Or they just liked getting the two extra seconds.

[timvp]

While I agree that the Spurs were probably not confident there would be good players at 44, I did say well before the draft that 33 was the most likely pick to be traded. Anyone drafted at 33 was going to be part of the roster crunch, whereas at 44, they'd be in line for a two-way deal. Now, it's not clear where Cissoko is going to be after Rice's signing. But I don't think plan A for 44 was to trade that pick too. I think if anything their plan was to draft someone like Rice and use a two-way on him, but when they saw Cissoko was still available, they went ahead and drafted him instead with the possibility of him being on the roster.

I remember your posts about the Spurs being more likely to trade 33 than 44. Good call and very astute :tu

Yeah, I think I key part of this trade is the contract expectation difference at 33 and 44. At 33, a second round pick is expecting guaranteed money and usually multiple years of guaranteed money. Leonard Miller probably gets a couple guaranteed years after being drafted at 33.

At 44, that's in the range where you either get an unguaranteed contract or a two-way contract. It's only 11 spots in the draft but the contracts given at the point of the draft are totally different.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of contract Cissoko gets. If he gets a two-way contract (which is obviously not as clear now with Rice in the mix), I think Cissoko at 44 would be a damn good pick. There's also a chance that the Spurs will wait to see how Cissoko does in summer league. If he plays well, the Spurs may give him guaranteed money if they're able to control him for multiple years.

[spurraider21]

i dont understand this roster crunch talk. we have 10 guys currently signed. wemby makes 11

with graham/wesley under contract, we already were going to sign at least one additional point guard. it was the spurs choice if they want to run it back with Tre, move back up to draft a viable PG who was available in the mid teens like Bufkin or Hood-Schifino, or go and overpay someone like Vanvleet just sot hey can hit the salary floor. Either way, that spot was going to be filled. this draft just presented a good opportunity to get a PG prospect that would be a good natural fit alongside wemby.

[Mr. Body]

i dont understand this roster crunch talk. we have 10 guys currently signed. wemby makes 11

with graham/wesley under contract, we already were going to sign at least one additional point guard. it was the spurs choice if they want to run it back with Tre, move back up to draft a viable PG who was available in the mid teens like Bufkin or Hood-Schifino, or go and overpay someone like Vanvleet just sot hey can hit the salary floor. Either way, that spot was going to be filled. this draft just presented a good opportunity to get a PG prospect that would be a good natural fit alongside wemby.

Has more to do with the roster going forward. This year seems more or less set. Next off-season presumably the team will have to make hard decisions on who to keep or move on, esp with possibly three FRPs, SRPs, and an increasing demand to upgrade key positions as we horn in on the playoffs.

[Seventyniner]

Has more to do with the roster going forward. This year seems more or less set. Next off-season presumably the team will have to make hard decisions on who to keep or move on, esp with possibly three FRPs, SRPs, and an increasing demand to upgrade key positions as we horn in on the playoffs.

It will definitely be harder next season, but it's not 100% that the Spurs will have three firsts in 2024. Charlotte would have to make the playoffs and Toronto would have to have their pick be outside the top 6.

2025 is when things can get crazy. If the Charlotte and Toronto picks don't convey next summer, the Spurs could have up to five firsts in 2025 depending on how CHA/TOR/CHI finish the season.

[spurraider21]

Has more to do with the roster going forward. This year seems more or less set. Next off-season presumably the team will have to make hard decisions on who to keep or move on, esp with possibly three FRPs, SRPs, and an increasing demand to upgrade key positions as we horn in on the playoffs.
the huge stash of picks we have going forward is exactly the reason our goal should have been to consolidate them and move back up. all we did is make it worse. we came into the draft with 3 picks. we left the draft with 2 selections and 2 shitty future picks that are going to pale in value compared to the one we gave up

[Mr. Body]

the huge stash of picks we have going forward is exactly the reason our goal should have been to consolidate them and move back up. all we did is make it worse. we came into the draft with 3 picks. we left the draft with 2 selections and 2 shitty future picks that are going to pale in value compared to the one we gave up

Well, I don't disagree, but apparently no deals could be made. If there's no one selling, there's nothing to buy.

Consolidating picks isn't the only option. You can trade picks for players. The team can flip picks forward, which I suspect will be a keen option going forward as the team starts moving into playoff pushes and getting talent starts getting harder.

[spurraider21]

Well, I don't disagree, but apparently no deals could be made. If there's no one selling, there's nothing to buy.

Consolidating picks isn't the only option. You can trade picks for players. The team can flip picks forward, which I suspect will be a keen option going forward as the team starts moving into playoff pushes and getting talent starts getting harder.
teams were buying and selling in the teens, in the 20's, in the 30's, etc

[spurraider21]

teams were buying and selling in the teens, in the 20's, in the 30's, etc
the mavs and thunder swapped from 10 to 12 in exchange for the bertans contract

the mavs bought the #24 overall pick just for taking on the richaun holmes contract.

the celtics traded the #25 pick for #31 and 2 future second rounders

the celtics then traded the #31 pick for 2 second rounders

the wizards traded #35 for additional second rounders

orlando traded #36 for a 2030 second rounder + cash

[Arcadian]

:lol how quickly the forum turned dark again

[spurraider21]

:lol how quickly the forum turned dark again
i mean, since the day of the lottery, we've all been crazy excited about the future of the team. from that moment, we knew wemby was happening and generally speaking, all is well.

yesterday was about the non-wemby stuff, hence the disappointment. obviously if you look back at how we did in the draft as far as talent acquisition, we did better than the rest of the league by a long shot

[Mr. Body]

the mavs and thunder swapped from 10 to 12 in exchange for the bertans contract

the mavs bought the #24 overall pick just for taking on the richaun holmes contract.

the celtics traded the #25 pick for #31 and 2 future second rounders

the celtics then traded the #31 pick for 2 second rounders

the wizards traded #35 for additional second rounders

orlando traded #36 for a 2030 second rounder + cash

Thanks for the list.

The only one that applies, IMO, is the first one. But if it was Toronto going from 13 over OKC to get Cason Wallace, the Spurs didn't have a late lotto pick to work with.

The rest are just not in areas, IMO, where any player appealed to them. Only supposing: the Spurs wanted Black, Bufkin, or Wallace. They're all gone at that point. Taking on Holmes to get O-Max was brilliant, but maybe the Spurs no longer valued anybody at that point vis-a-vis their roster, etc. Maybe, like the 33, they didn't want to take a marginal player on a guaranteed contract.

Also, there's no Discord channel where GMs post opportunities (I don't think). The picks come so fast over a shifting landscape. These guys go with relationships and one-to-one communication. It's not like SAC blasted the group that they wanted off of Holmes. Same as the sale of Duren last year. DAL and SAC had some previous relationship or SAC saw that DAL suddenly had a big, new trade exception, so asked about dumping a contract.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I think that eventually something will have to be done about domestic competitions and player development.
College and Ignite are nowhere near European leagues and as we've seen over the past years international players are way more ready for the NBA in most cases.

Kids in the current domestic system aren't taught to play actual basketball, but to dominate their physically inferior peers.
Obviously, that's always been a thing, but with most good prospects being one and done, NCAA has become a joke if we talk actual level of competition.

There were way too many athletic guards and wings that have shooting as their biggest flaw in this draft.

But NCAA makes generates too much revenue to ever be fundamentally changed.
It's relatively new. It will be refined and more kids will be drawn to it. As fans gravitate towards it team success will start to become more important.

As you suggest, it will forever be primarily a development league, bit I think it's a good idea and will improve with time.

[spurraider21]

Thanks for the list.

The only one that applies, IMO, is the first one. But if it was Toronto going from 13 over OKC to get Cason Wallace, the Spurs didn't have a late lotto pick to work with.

The rest are just not in areas, IMO, where any player appealed to them. Only supposing: the Spurs wanted Black, Bufkin, or Wallace. They're all gone at that point. Taking on Holmes to get O-Max was brilliant, but maybe the Spurs no longer valued anybody at that point vis-a-vis their roster, etc. Maybe, like the 33, they didn't want to take a marginal player on a guaranteed contract.

Also, there's no Discord channel where GMs post opportunities (I don't think). The picks come so fast over a shifting landscape. These guys go with relationships and one-to-one communication. It's not like SAC blasted the group that they wanted off of Holmes. Same as the sale of Duren last year. DAL and SAC had some previous relationship or SAC saw that DAL suddenly had a big, new trade exception, so asked about dumping a contract.
nah. prudent teams are having these conversations in advance of the draft to establish frameworks of the deal, and obviously the deal will or wont consummate depending on whether the player in interest is actually available at that spot

[Chinook]

i dont understand this roster crunch talk. we have 10 guys currently signed. wemby makes 11

with graham/wesley under contract, we already were going to sign at least one additional point guard. it was the spurs choice if they want to run it back with Tre, move back up to draft a viable PG who was available in the mid teens like Bufkin or Hood-Schifino, or go and overpay someone like Vanvleet just sot hey can hit the salary floor. Either way, that spot was going to be filled. this draft just presented a good opportunity to get a PG prospect that would be a good natural fit alongside wemby.

I think they should've moved up too. But there's a difference between earmarking a spot for a PG prospect picked in the middle of the first that you believe in and just whoever is there at 33. You may have wanted a guy picked there over Champ, Mamu, KBD or whomever, but that doesn't mean the Spurs do. In the very least they probably don't want to eat multiple years of guaranteed money if whomever they took at 33 doesn't beat out one of those other guys.

They need to get rid of picks and shouldn't wait until the draft they're due to try to accomplish that. But that's in large part because they aren't going to want a bunch of guys picked 25th or later to sort through every year. This year is proof of that, not evidence against it.

[Budkin]

We got wemby! Everything else is gravy

This tbh

[Mr. Body]

nah. prudent teams are having these conversations in advance of the draft to establish frameworks of the deal, and obviously the deal will or wont consummate depending on whether the player in interest is actually available at that spot

The two trades I mentioned -- Duren last year and Dallas suddenly having a big trade exception -- were not opportunities that existed before the draft started.

It's impossible to game out every single scenario. Anyway, if the Spurs didn't want someone at 33, why would they have wanted the same tier of player at 24?

[spurraider21]

I think they should've moved up too. But there's a difference between earmarking a spot for a PG prospect picked in the middle of the first that you believe in and just whoever is there at 33. You may have wanted a guy picked there over Champ, Mamu, KBD or whomever, but that doesn't mean the Spurs do. In the very least they probably don't want to eat multiple years of guaranteed money if whomever they took at 33 doesn't beat out one of those other guys.

They need to get rid of picks and shouldn't wait until the draft they're due to try to accomplish that. But that's in large part because they aren't going to want a bunch of guys picked 25th or later to sort through every year. This year is proof of that, not evidence against it.
yeah im not suggesting they should have taken a guy just for the sake of taking a guy. but if they had reason to believe they wouldnt like guys in the 33 range, the attitude should have been to be more aggressive, maybe even more than they wanted to, to move up to secure a guy they ARE interested, as opposed to just compiling even more useless picks

[spurraider21]

The two trades I mentioned -- Duren last year and Dallas suddenly having a big trade exception -- were not opportunities that existed before the draft started.

It's impossible to game out every single scenario. Anyway, if the Spurs didn't want someone at 33, why would they have wanted the same tier of player at 24?
Dallas acquired the trade exception on draft day, and i would venture to guess they didnt only have that conversation during the 3 minutes that dallas was on the clock. im sure OKC was cognizant of the cap ramifications of bertans because they had conversations in advance of the draft.

you have these convos and establish trade frameworks ahead of time, and then the trades either do or dont happen depending on whether targeted players are available or not

[Mugen]

They cheaped out on #33, we know that :lol

The failure to consolidate 33, 44 and a future 1st rounder to get into the 20s was a whiff. There were guys there that are a tier above Cissoko. Wouldn't have cost much at all and they got gunshy.

Scared money tbh

[Mr. Body]

Dallas acquired the trade exception on draft day, and i would venture to guess they didnt only have that conversation during the 3 minutes that dallas was on the clock. im sure OKC was cognizant of the cap ramifications of bertans because they had conversations in advance of the draft.

you have these convos and establish trade frameworks ahead of time, and then the trades either do or dont happen depending on whether targeted players are available or not

Dallas having a trade exception isn't really the point. Sacramento wanting to sell a pick to get rid of salary is. That's something you can't plan for. The Spurs - or anyone else - isn't going to realize Sacramento suddenly wants to lose their pick. Maybe they did beforehand, but I doubt it. They saw an opportunity, might have called a few teams, and some teams might have declined. Dallas didn't.

Maybe the Spurs were asked and said no. They don't want to take on bad salary simply for a #24 pick they didn't value.

So maybe they were aware, maybe they weren't. Either way, I don't think they would have done it. I suspect they have better ideas on how to use their cap space.

[Mr. Body]

They cheaped out on #33, we know that :lol

The failure to consolidate 33, 44 and a future 1st rounder to get into the 20s was a whiff. There were guys there that are a tier above Cissoko. Wouldn't have cost much at all and they got gunshy.

Scared money tbh

I don't see anyone picked in the 20s who is better than Cissoko.

[Extra Stout]

They cheaped out on #33, we know that :lol

The failure to consolidate 33, 44 and a future 1st rounder to get into the 20s was a whiff. There were guys there that are a tier above Cissoko. Wouldn't have cost much at all and they got gunshy.

Scared money tbh
I think I get it now. They don’t care about using draft capital to grab role players, even if one fits a need. They have the duration of Wemby’s first contract to pair him with a second star, and that’s what the draft capital is for. So they were willing to try to trade into the lottery for somebody they assessed to have that potential, but not just to get into the 20’s by which point all those players were gone.

[spurraider21]

Dallas having a trade exception isn't really the point. Sacramento wanting to sell a pick to get rid of salary is. That's something you can't plan for. The Spurs - or anyone else - isn't going to realize Sacramento suddenly wants to lose their pick. Maybe they did beforehand, but I doubt it. They saw an opportunity, might have called a few teams, and some teams might have declined. Dallas didn't.

Maybe the Spurs were asked and said no. They don't want to take on bad salary simply for a #24 pick they didn't value.

So maybe they were aware, maybe they weren't. Either way, I don't think they would have done it. I suspect they have better ideas on how to use their cap space.
do you think sacramento decided, on a whim, while they were on the clock, that "oh, lets see if we can find somebody to take on Holmes and we'll agree to move off this pick"

[spurraider21]

if the spurs wanted to move into the teens, maybe they buy that pick off sacto and use that 24 pick as ammo to trade up to 15, 16? these all can be mapped out in advance. not saying its easy peasy but man thats what these guys are paid for. we definitely had the necessary ammunition, both in draft capital and cap space

[Mugen]

I don't see anyone picked in the 20s who is better than Cissoko.

I don't believe you tbh.

[Mr. Body]

do you think sacramento decided, on a whim, while they were on the clock, that "oh, lets see if we can find somebody to take on Holmes and we'll agree to move off this pick"

No, but there was probably about thirty minutes when they were working with Dallas.

If they did call other teams, then they also passed. Holmes makes $12 million this year and next year. It's not a shit-ton of salary, but it's a lot for a middling 24 pick.

The Spurs, if called, didn't value it. If another open-cap team was called, or other teams with trade exceptions, they also passed. Dallas, desperate for new players, went for it.

Look, I get that we all wanted some big second draft pick to come onto the team. The only ones I personally cared about were gone well before 24. I'm not even sure why you're frantic about this. The team clearly is showing they don't want marginal players set on guaranteed salary. They already have like 12 players they want to work on already.

[Mr. Body]

I don't believe you tbh.

Man, take a look at the picks from 21 to 44. The draft at that point was flatter than the Texas Panhandle. There's not a single player I can say will be better than Cissoko. You're just steaming mad and evaluating things in terms of where picks were rather than who was selected.

LMK who is actually going to be better. Look through the entire list.

[DesignatedT]

I agree that the draft really fell off after 17. The Spurs weren't going to touch Whitmore and I really don't see anyone else worth trading future firsts for at that time. Those upset are just bitching because they wanted to see the Spurs make a move. If there's evidence the Spurs could have moved into the top 17 and didn't then fine but 20-44 was pretty meh.

[baseline bum]

if the spurs wanted to move into the teens, maybe they buy that pick off sacto and use that 24 pick as ammo to trade up to 15, 16? these all can be mapped out in advance. not saying its easy peasy but man thats what these guys are paid for. we definitely had the necessary ammunition, both in draft capital and cap space

#16 would have been too late to get Bufkin and gotta think Atlanta couldn't be too thrilled with trading with the Spurs after they used their #15 on Bufkin as a Murray replacement and would have probably wanted one of their picks back. Which no way in hell I'm trading when they're unprotected and could be used in a future Durant like trade. Would you have given the Toronto and Chicago picks to get to #14? Don't think #24 plus one of those would have gotten you up to #14.

[JPB]

I agree that the draft really fell off after 17. The Spurs weren't going to touch Whitmore and I really don't see anyone else worth trading future firsts for at that time. Those upset are just bitching because they wanted to see the Spurs make a move. If there's evidence the Spurs could have moved into the top 17 and didn't then fine but 20-44 was pretty meh.

People are pissed because spurs FO is smarter than them on BB issues. And they don't ask themselves why everyone didn't try to trade up in the 20s if that was so cheap, easy and worth it... They wanted a move, something, anything for players they never heard of 3 months ago and have 3/4 chances of ending as unproductive or random, rotation guys... That's what GMs are paid for, being smart and not impulsive or caught in the moment, see the larger picture. This isn't the last draft in history of humanity or the only way to bring talent in your team, I mean real, proven talent, not zero NBA game teens.

The best trades are the ones you don't make. Trading and lose assets just for the sake of it, or because ST badly wanted it, had no sens, unless it's a guy you REALLY LOVE... Spurs are in a good situation...

[spurraider21]

#16 would have been too late to get Bufkin and gotta think Atlanta couldn't be too thrilled with trading with the Spurs after they used their #15 on Bufkin as a Murray replacement and would have probably wanted one of their picks back. Which no way in hell I'm trading when they're unprotected and could be used in a future Durant like trade. Would you have given the Toronto and Chicago picks to get to #14? Don't think #24 plus one of those would have gotten you up to #14.
think hood-schifino was another option, though yes i preferred Bufkin as well

and yeah i woulda given those picks for 14 to land Bufkin

[kobyz]

Miller would have been really nice value at 33, i see him as exactly the same player and prospect as Noah Clowney who went 21

[JPB]

Indiana trading up from 8 (+2 SRPs) to 7
OKC going from 12 to 10 (+ Bertans)
Dallas getting back in the FR with 24 for a traded player exception

That's last night major moves. Why didn't everyone try to trade up like crazy from the second round (or even late FR) to get those gems all over? Because it's really hard and basically impossible unless giving up a haul... It's really hard and only teams one or two picks away in this draft could reach a deal, since that didn't comprise their chances to pick their guy or a guy they liked, which teams will always privilege. Few fans here would have been ready to trade a lottery pick in this draft, unless for a haul.

[spurraider21]

Indiana trading up from 8 (+2 SRPs) to 7
OKC going from 12 to 10 (+ Bertans)
Dallas getting back in the FR with 24 for a traded player exception

That's last night major moves. Why didn't everyone try to trade up like crazy from the second round (or even late FR) to get those gems all over? Because it's really hard and basically impossible unless giving up a haul... It's really hard and only teams one or two picks away in this draft could reach a deal, since that didn't comprise their chances to pick their guy or a guy they liked, which teams will always privilege. Few fans here would have been ready to trade a lottery pick in this draft, unless for a haul.
not every team had the ammunition we did

[cutewizard]

this could be our draymond......

[CGD]

This kid is part of the Kawhi trade tree right?

[spursparker9]

This kid is part of the Kawhi trade tree right?

yes from raptor

[rankingtear]

if the spurs wanted to move into the teens, maybe they buy that pick off sacto and use that 24 pick as ammo to trade up to 15, 16? these all can be mapped out in advance. not saying its easy peasy but man thats what these guys are paid for. we definitely had the necessary ammunition, both in draft capital and cap space

I am sure they wanted Kris.

[rankingtear]

not every team had the ammunition we did

OKC and UTA have more and they did try to trade into 7.

[Mr. Body]

OKC and UTA have more and they did try to trade into 7.

They already had lottery picks to use.

[rankingtear]

Miller would have been really nice value at 33, i see him as exactly the same player and prospect as Noah Clowney who went 21

Both low IQ.

[rascal]

They cheaped out on #33, we know that :lol

The failure to consolidate 33, 44 and a future 1st rounder to get into the 20s was a whiff. There were guys there that are a tier above Cissoko. Wouldn't have cost much at all and they got gunshy.

Scared money tbh

They struck out improving the team outside of the obvious Wemby pick. Anyone on this board could have done as well or better than what the Spurs did on draft night.

Have to give the FO an F in the draft, total failure in acquiring anything of value to upgrade the roster around Wemby.

Now it's on to free agency and/or trades to upgrade the roster. I'm not counting on much in free agency or trades this summer other than maybe another role player backup quality addition.

[rascal]

People are pissed because spurs FO is smarter than them on BB issues. And they don't ask themselves why everyone didn't try to trade up in the 20s if that was so cheap, easy and worth it... They wanted a move, something, anything for players they never heard of 3 months ago and have 3/4 chances of ending as unproductive or random, rotation guys... That's what GMs are paid for, being smart and not impulsive or caught in the moment, see the larger picture. This isn't the last draft in history of humanity or the only way to bring talent in your team, I mean real, proven talent, not zero NBA game teens.

The best trades are the ones you don't make. Trading and lose assets just for the sake of it, or because ST badly wanted it, had no sens, unless it's a guy you REALLY LOVE... Spurs are in a good situation...

Those assets like Charlotte Chi and Toronto FRP's will likely lose value if and when they convey. Their perceived value is most likely higher than what their actual value will be so packaging them to move up made sense.

There is also a cost by doing nothing.

[RC_Drunkford]

I heard there's a player in the 2024 draft who's more athletic than Shaedon Sharpe. Maybe we package our picks there to move up and draft him, then the FO would've done something right for once

[rankingtear]

1672258086550265857

Some GM just want to pick their guy. Does not matter what you offer them.

[Mr. Body]

I heard there's a player in the 2024 draft who's more athletic than Shaedon Sharpe. Maybe we package our picks there to move up and draft him, then the FO would've done something right for once

Is it a horse?

[mo7888]

Is it a horse?

Nope...pretty sure it was a deer...