Article: The New Salary Floor Rules and How the Spurs Get There

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-salary-floor-nba-free-agency/

Didn't want to confuse the normies by including it in the article but it's notable that NBA teams still haven't received a finalized version of the new CBA. I know that a few teams are asking that the salary floor rules be relaxed this season due to how long it's taking to finalize the CBA. But, ultimately, it's likely that the rules I detailed in the article will still be implemented -- even if the language isn't available until the last second.

[Mr. Body]

The new salary floor rule is a boon for players in general. Previously, teams could wait most of the season before trading to hit the floor, but by then the payouts on most of the acquired salaries had already been made. Now, every team is forced to take on enough contracts from the start of the season.

I fully believe the "no costly mistakes" and "see what we have" edicts. The team we have is what we have. There's an outside chance of taking on salary for assets, but it feels like that market/tactic has dried up. Big money teams seem more likely to trade off long-term contracts for expirings rather than sell off assets (they may no longer have) to get off bad contracts. The real problems they're facing are long term, not necessarily immediately.

As mentioned in other threads, I'm interested in picking up a vet or two on small expiring salaries, like Patty Mills or Nicolas Batum.

[Uriel]

I thought KBD was gone?

[Joseph Kony]

we want the latest intel before free agency begins article :hungry:

[spurraider21]

Wright: Can we just stay below the floor and give the players end-of-season bonuses instead?

NBA: nah, new rule. no more of that, you have to reach the floor

Wright: ok. we'll just overpay Tre Jones, basically giving him the full bonus instead of spreading it like last year

[timvp]

I thought KBD was gone?

Probably depends. The Spurs might overpay him to stay just for salary floor purposes. But if there's a sizable trade or a big free agent signing, they'd let him walk, IMO.

[Extra Stout]

Rockets: throw $85 million at FVV to reach the salary floor
Spurs: hold my beer

[Degoat]

Expecting several “We like what we have,” talks all summer lol I just hope we sign at least one player that could help us win or contribute.

[BatManu20]

Lol at Spurs still having to pay Pee-Wee Primo $4.3M this season. Hilarious.

Anyways, Brooke Lopez or bust for me tbh. Think he’d be the perfect Vet to bring in to not only help Wemby and the gang on the court as a big body stretch-5, but also a great locker room guy who PATFO would love to have around for tutelage purposes. Doubt MIL let’s him walk, but Spurs should offer him as much as they can on a 2-yr deal tbh. Makes a lot of sense for us.

[Bruno]

Bottom line is Spurs can just sign a player like Keita Bates-Diop or Gorgui Dieng at the end of the summer to a $10M, $15M... 1 year contract to get above the salary floor.

Spurs aren't and never will be trapped by the salary floor. They don't have to do a trade they don't like to get above it or to sign a player to an expensive multi years contract.

[Russ]

Nice article timvp; explains things thoroughly without getting too technical.

I like option 5, try to get future assets for cap trash. Creates minimum disruption to the current young roster and keeps adding for the future. The Spurs should put a sign on their locker room: "No Country for Old Men." (Except Pop.)

One question -- why haven't the Spurs signed Wemby yet? The salary is slotted, what remains? If I'm his agent, I wouldn't allow him to touch the floor in Vegas unless he's signed.

[Mr. Body]

Nice article timvp; explains things thoroughly without getting too technical.

I like option 5, try to get future assets for cap trash. Creates minimum disruption to the current young roster and keeps adding for the future. The Spurs should put a sign on their locker room: "No Country for Old Men." (Except Pop.)

One question -- why haven't the Spurs signed Wemby yet? The salary is slotted, what remains? If I'm his agent, I wouldn't allow him to touch the floor in Vegas unless he's signed.

I don't think the new season has technically started yet.

[Knoxxx]

What kind of $ is Lopez likely to command? I am not entirely convinced anyone wants him badly enough to pay more than we can. He does seem like the type of big body we'd like to use to play the enforcer/Wemby protector role. Has he showed well in any on court fights or scuffles?

[spurs10]

Door #3- if they throw $15-20m at a player they want is that referring to a FA?

[spurs10]

Door #3- if they throw $15-20m at a player they want is that referring to a FA? Or do you mean one of our existing players?

[timvp]

Door #3- if they throw $15-20m at a player they want is that referring to a FA?
Yeah a non Spurs FA.

[timvp]

One question -- why haven't the Spurs signed Wemby yet? The salary is slotted, what remains? If I'm his agent, I wouldn't allow him to touch the floor in Vegas unless he's signed.

There used to be a reason to wait to sign first round picks but that's no longer the case. Wemby will sign ASAP.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Go get Brook Lopez.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I have a question. The Spurs were tanking last season. This season, they would be building back better with Wemby in. Outright tanking required the Spurs to maintain only a floor level salary. Why should they repeat that ploy this year? They can still make a below tax but above the floor salary team that will be competitive right?

[John B]

Any scenario they get Poeltl back? :lol

[Extra Stout]

I have a question. The Spurs were tanking last season. This season, they would be building back better with Wemby in. Outright tanking required the Spurs to maintain only a floor level salary. Why should they repeat that ploy this year? They can still make a below tax but above the floor salary team that will be competitive right?
They like what they have. They want to see what they have and how it fits together. They want to be patient and avoid big, costly mistakes.

They’ve also said they expect to “win a lot more games.” Except that “a lot” might mean “eight.”

Thus the challenge of getting to $122.4 million. Except it’s not really a challenge. They can just throw money at one or two of their marginal free agents.

[T Park]

Bottom line is Spurs can just sign a player like Keita Bates-Diop or Gorgui Dieng at the end of the summer to a $10M, $15M... 1 year contract to get above the salary floor.

Spurs aren't and never will be trapped by the salary floor. They don't have to do a trade they don't like to get above it or to sign a player to an expensive multi years contract.


if you want to kill all the goodwill built up by the Wembenyama draft, that would be a way to do it.

[Knoxxx]

https://youtu.be/bktfyIpn1nw

Lopez protecting Giannis v. a former Spur

[exstatic]

The new salary floor rule is a boon for players in general. Previously, teams could wait most of the season before trading to hit the floor, but by then the payouts on most of the acquired salaries had already been made. Now, every team is forced to take on enough contracts from the start of the season.

I fully believe the "no costly mistakes" and "see what we have" edicts. The team we have is what we have. There's an outside chance of taking on salary for assets, but it feels like that market/tactic has dried up. Big money teams seem more likely to trade off long-term contracts for expirings rather than sell off assets (they may no longer have) to get off bad contracts. The real problems they're facing are long term, not necessarily immediately.

As mentioned in other threads, I'm interested in picking up a vet or two on small expiring salaries, like Patty Mills or Nicolas Batum.

That costs assets, too. Both of our trades at the deadline were expirings (JRich and Poodle) for summer 2024 expirings (Graham and Birch) and we got assets on both deals, one very lightly protected first and a total of 7 SRPs.

[BatManu20]

1674148891774550026

[RC_Drunkford]

Lol at Spurs still having to pay Pee-Wee Primo $4.3M this season. Hilarious.

Anyways, Brooke Lopez or bust for me tbh. Think he’d be the perfect Vet to bring in to not only help Wemby and the gang on the court as a big body stretch-5, but also a great locker room guy who PATFO would love to have around for tutelage purposes. Doubt MIL let’s him walk, but Spurs should offer him as much as they can on a 2-yr deal tbh. Makes a lot of sense for us.

It's a long lasting tradition in San Antonio to pay charity salary to a player that's not on the team. Pau Gasol, Demarre Carroll, Primo... I almost forgot Khem Birch

[lefty20]

Didn't want to confuse the normies by including it in the article but it's notable that NBA teams still haven't received a finalized version of the new CBA. I know that a few teams are asking that the salary floor rules be relaxed this season due to how long it's taking to finalize the CBA. But, ultimately, it's likely that the rules I detailed in the article will still be implemented -- even if the language isn't available until the last second.

Wright better get spending...

1674148891774550026

[spurraider21]

Wright better get spending...

1674148891774550026
Tre Jones ins't gonna pay himself!

[Mr. Body]

> Any player (or, for clarity, any player representative or person acting with
authority on behalf of a player) who publicly expresses a desire to be traded
to another Team shall be subject to a fine and/or a suspension. The
maximum fine that may be imposed by the NBA on a player pursuant to the
foregoing shall be $150,000.

[Big Empty]

Any scenario they get Poeltl back? :lol
He’s 27 and now in his prime. Im wondering stats of he & Lopez vs Centers that matter like Jokic or AD

[ambchang]

Tre Jones, 3 years, $30M, $20M in year 1, $5 each in years 2 and 3 :lol

[Chinook]

Tre Jones ins't gonna pay himself!

"Quiet Glue" is about to be "Quiet, Expensive Glue"

[kobyz]

One player who might be available for a second round pick is killian hayes, player who still with potential but probably a odd man out in Detroit

[lefty20]

One player who might be available for a second round pick is killian hayes, player who still with potential but probably a odd man out in Detroit

3 years in the league and he's topped out at 46% TS.

Any potential he has is locked away so deep that finding it risks awakening the Balrog.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Is the loss of $5 million in tax revenue really that big of a deal? Especially with the more onerous penalties for being over tax thresholds there will likely be teams that will be desperate at the trade deadline that might be ripe for the picking up of additional draft capital. Could probably even get cash to offset the loss of tax revenue. At this point I think they should make strictly basketball decisions. If they reach the minimum doing that then fine, but not to just add salary for salary sake.

[Mr. Body]

I've posted the numbers before. Tre Jones is better than Kilian Hayes.

[spurraider21]

I've posted the numbers before. Tre Jones is better than Kilian Hayes.
basically every player in the nba is better than killian hayes

[timvp]

Is the loss of $5 million in tax revenue really that big of a deal? Especially with the more onerous penalties for being over tax thresholds there will likely be teams that will be desperate at the trade deadline that might be ripe for the picking up of additional draft capital. Could probably even get cash to offset the loss of tax revenue. At this point I think they should make strictly basketball decisions. If they reach the minimum doing that then fine, but not to just add salary for salary sake.

Any salary cap room below the floor disappears once the regular season begins. Basically, no matter what you do, no team can enter the regular season with more than $13.6 million in cap space.

[kobyz]

3 years in the league and he's topped out at 46% TS.

Any potential he has is locked away so deep that finding it risks awakening the Balrog.

Maybe it's just the need of change of scenery, hard to explain how skilled player like him struggle that much

[buttsR4rebounding]

Any salary cap room below the floor disappears once the regular season begins. Basically, no matter what you do, no team can enter the regular season with more than $13.6 million in cap space.

I didn’t catch that. Thanks.

[scott]

Is the loss of $5 million in tax revenue really that big of a deal? Especially with the more onerous penalties for being over tax thresholds there will likely be teams that will be desperate at the trade deadline that might be ripe for the picking up of additional draft capital. Could probably even get cash to offset the loss of tax revenue. At this point I think they should make strictly basketball decisions. If they reach the minimum doing that then fine, but not to just add salary for salary sake.

I think the CBA smartly structures it to achieve it's intended purpose (not having teams below the floor). It's not just the loss of the $5MM in revenue, it's that you also have to cut a check for your floor deficiency. So being below the floor isn't saving you any money - you have to spend the same amount and get nothing in return. This is a good structure to achieve the intended results (money going to the players)

[TekXX]

The league is trying to screw cheap billionaires.

[CGD]

There are gonna be some weird ass unintended consequences from this that we can’t even see yet. Like I can see a rando on a team the equivalent of a Mamu getting 6M for a year. Or like the 53rd pick in a draft with no buisness getting a deal

[Mr. Body]

It'll work itself out before long. Most of the people bitching about the new CBA are fans of teams spending like sailors on leave. I'm not sure I believe the claims that rich players will get richer. More likely, as I think we're already seeing, there will be downward pressure on extravagant contracts. But then the floor ensures the money has to go to players, so it has to go somewhere, which will be the non top salaries.

[baseline bum]

I have a question. The Spurs were tanking last season. This season, they would be building back better with Wemby in. Outright tanking required the Spurs to maintain only a floor level salary. Why should they repeat that ploy this year? They can still make a below tax but above the floor salary team that will be competitive right?

To have cap flexibility next summer when they have a better idea how to build around Wemby and when the Atlanta picks will have their maximum value to go land a star.

[Knox]

Looks like Lopez is a strong MIL lean:

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10080942-brook-lopez-rumors-rockets-contract-not-happening-bucks-reunion-more-likely.amp.html

[JPB]

The new salary floor rule is a boon for players in general. Previously, teams could wait most of the season before trading to hit the floor, but by then the payouts on most of the acquired salaries had already been made. Now, every team is forced to take on enough contracts from the start of the season.

I fully believe the "no costly mistakes" and "see what we have" edicts. The team we have is what we have. There's an outside chance of taking on salary for assets, but it feels like that market/tactic has dried up. Big money teams seem more likely to trade off long-term contracts for expirings rather than sell off assets (they may no longer have) to get off bad contracts. The real problems they're facing are long term, not necessarily immediately.

As mentioned in other threads, I'm interested in picking up a vet or two on small expiring salaries, like Patty Mills or Nicolas Batum.

Batum is really not a bad idea.

[KingKev]

Wicked article. Use cap space for future draft capital and expiring, complementary player(s) to VW. We aren’t competing next year anyways but need to be competitive. NO DOGSH!T LONGTERM CONTRACTS.

[spurs1990]

One year deals for Mills and D Green if they run out of runway

[rascal]

Probably depends. The Spurs might overpay him to stay just for salary floor purposes. But if there's a sizable trade or a big free agent signing, they'd let him walk, IMO.

Spurs need to make moves to upgrade the roster not over pay players.

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs decide their roster is full and they like everyone they have, what is to stop them from renegotiating existing contracts to just give a percentage of extra money to each player?

[Mr. Body]

Not just the salary floor, but there's stuff in the new CBA that supposedly makes trading between non-apron teams much easier and more fluid? I haven't read it and only nibbles are coming out because everyone's obsessed with the second apron stuff so far.

[exstatic]

Is the loss of $5 million in tax revenue really that big of a deal? Especially with the more onerous penalties for being over tax thresholds there will likely be teams that will be desperate at the trade deadline that might be ripe for the picking up of additional draft capital. Could probably even get cash to offset the loss of tax revenue. At this point I think they should make strictly basketball decisions. If they reach the minimum doing that then fine, but not to just add salary for salary sake.

These teams need to understand that if they have a big contract that they need to offload, the time to be desperate is NOW. After the 'meet the salary floor date', no one will be able to help them, because no one will have any more cap room than the difference between the floor and the cap.

[scott]

If the Spurs decide their roster is full and they like everyone they have, what is to stop them from renegotiating existing contracts to just give a percentage of extra money to each player?

Can you renegotiate contracts at any time? Or must a player be extension eligible?

[Obstructed_View]

Can you renegotiate contracts at any time? Or must a player be extension eligible?
That's the question. Years ago, players held out to renegotiate contracts, but that may be how the team/player option evolved. Seems like a team should be able to decide to give a player more money if the team initiates it.

[Extra Stout]

The last CBA allowed a team to increase a player’s salary if it had the cap space to do so, subject to the other rules for structuring contracts.

[Extra Stout]

Renegotiating Devonte Graham could be interesting for Spurs

His current contract is:
2023/24: $12.1M
2024/25: $12.65M ($2.85M guaranteed)

Spurs could offer to him:
2023/24: $16M
2024/25: $16M ($0 guaranteed)

It would allow Spurs to have even more cap space for next summer.
No, I don’t think you can pull forward salary like that. The main reason for increasing salary used to be as an incentive for a player to sign an extension. It couldn’t be used to create cap space.

[spurraider21]

No, I don’t think you can pull forward salary like that. The main reason for increasing salary used to be as an incentive for a player to sign an extension. It couldn’t be used to create cap space.
didnt pacers do something like that with myles turner?

[Extra Stout]

didnt pacers do something like that with myles turner?
No. They extended him. It’s just that the first year of the extension was a 40% drop from the year they gave him the big raise, which the CBA allowed.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Well, I'm far from sure it's legal so you may be right.

My understanding of renegotiation is that the amount of guaranteed money doesn't matter. What matters is the base salary that is, in this case, raising from $25M/2years to $32M/2 years.

Where they can really make a big difference is with Collins. If they expect to re-sign him negotiate it now. If it’s similar to Reid, 3/42; don’t pick up his 3rd year and give him 4/50 which is the same money. Front end load it and go 19, 11.5, 10.5, 9. Uses up cap space now and frees it up later. Uses 12 million now that gets freed up later. Better than just paying KBD 30 million.

[bluebellmaniac]

Renegotiating Devonte Graham could be interesting for Spurs

His current contract is:
2023/24: $12.1M
2024/25: $12.65M ($2.85M guaranteed)

Spurs could offer to him:
2023/24: $16M
2024/25: $16M ($0 guaranteed)

It would allow Spurs to have even more cap space for next summer.

How does increasing his salary increase our cap space?

[mo7888]

How does increasing his salary increase our cap space?

Because his partial guarantee of $2.85M is reduced to 0 next summer.

[Ariel]

Renegotiating Devonte Graham could be interesting for Spurs

His current contract is:
2023/24: $12.1M
2024/25: $12.65M ($2.85M guaranteed)

Spurs could offer to him:
2023/24: $16M
2024/25: $16M ($0 guaranteed)

It would allow Spurs to have even more cap space for next summer.
Not sure if that makes it easier or tougher to move him, a tax team probably prefers his current contract.

[Ariel]

Where they can really make a big difference is with Collins. If they expect to re-sign him negotiate it now. If it’s similar to Reid, 3/42; don’t pick up his 3rd year and give him 4/50 which is the same money. Front end load it and go 19, 11.5, 10.5, 9. Uses up cap space now and frees it up later. Uses 12 million now that gets freed up later. Better than just paying KBD 30 million.
Yeah, definitely. I'm also coming around to the idea of re-signing Tre for more money that he should get, as long as it's front loaded then overpaying year 1 is just fine, that money is gone regardless. It's in years 2 and (especially) 3 and beyond that those contracts should be watched.

[Chinook]

So the Spurs can't renegotiate with Graham until 2024-2025, so the discussion is moot. But I don't see anything in the CBA FAQ suggesting a team and a player can't agree to alter guaranteed money outside of a buyout situation. I didn't know that, actually.

In general, it doesn't look like there's anyone else on the team who could get renegotiated. Murray could've been had he been with the Spurs still. Maybe White as well later in the year? Oh well.

[MannyIsGod]

Not sure if that makes it easier or tougher to move him, a tax team probably prefers his current contract.

Tax team on the deadline might prefer the renegotiated deal as I think it might actually be less money.

[MultiTroll]

Bunch of overpaid stiffs and billionaire owners.

[Ariel]

Tax team on the deadline might prefer the renegotiated deal as I think it might actually be less money.
Not necessarily, the jump from 12M to 16M this year might be more harmful for a receiving team than taking on a measly 2.5M next year, depending on how bad the team over the tax threshold.

[MannyIsGod]

Not necessarily, the jump from 12M to 16M this year might be more harmful for a receiving team than taking on a measly 2.5M next year, depending on how bad the team over the tax threshold.

You're right I was considering the 2.85 in the tax calc but DUH its next year so its moot in the tax calc for this year.

[Bruno]

So the Spurs can't renegotiate with Graham until 2024-2025, so the discussion is moot.

Yeah, my bad. All I was saying was BS, Graham contract can't be renegotiated before August 2024. Thanks.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Short term deals should be the goal I think. Put some vets around this young roster and this team could make some noise. Reward those contracts with new deals if the Spurs overachieve.

[Ariel]

Short term deals should be the goal I think. Put some vets around this young roster and this team could make some noise. Reward those contracts with new deals if the Spurs overachieve.
Yuṕ. '25 free agency should be the goal, if the young guys develop as expected, there will be A LOT of interest in joining the Spurs.

[slick'81]

Short term deals should be the goal I think. Put some vets around this young roster and this team could make some noise. Reward those contracts with new deals if the Spurs overachieve.


yea, just add some vets and help the bench depth