Slotting The Spurs

[TD 21]

For all the debates about starting, positions, etc., presuming no other moves are made, I see this as the best way to view it . . .

Guaranteed to start: Wembanyama, Vassell

Likely to start: Collins, Johnson, Jones

Guaranteed to play significant minutes: Sochan, Branham, McDermott

Competing for minutes: Champagnie, Bassey, Graham, Payne, Bullock, Osman, Mamukelashvili

Deep bench/G-League: Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko, Rice

Buy out/waived: Birch

[mo7888]

For all the debates about starting, positions, etc., presuming no other moves are made, I see this as the best way to view it . . .

Guaranteed to start: Wembanyama, Vassell

Likely to start: Collins, Johnson, Jones

Guaranteed to play significant minutes: Sochan, Branham, McDermott

Competing for minutes: Champagnie, Bassey, Graham, Bullock, Osman, Mamukelashvili

Deep bench/G-League: Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko, Rice

Buy out/waived: Stevens, Birch

I think thats the most likely scenario if we don't make a consolidation trade. If we do and add a starting caliber PG who's a threat from 3 then I think you flip KJ and Sochan, but as currently constructed, I agree.

[stnick2261]

I see Sochan as likely to start. Not sure who gets left out (possibly Johnson leading the 2nd team). I think Champagnie takes over McDermott’s minutes. With Collins’ and Bassey’s injuries, I’d say Barlow has a chance to get “competing for minutes” as well (deep rotation)

[mo7888]

I see Sochan as likely to start. Not sure who gets left out (possibly Johnson leading the 2nd team). I think Champagnie takes over McDermott’s minutes. With Collins’ and Bassey’s injuries, I’d say Barlow has a chance to get “competing for minutes” as well (deep rotation)

What injury does Collins have?

[Leetonidas]

Unless Graham is traded I don't see him being out of the regular rotation. Wesley will probably be in Austin most of the season still and Graham will split time as the backup PG/SG, imo

[tim_duncan_fan]

There isn't any reason to play McDermott before Champaignie at this point.

Johnson is headed to the bench. May not be that way to start the season, but Sochan will prove to be clearly better. Unless Keldon has added handles to his game.


Zollins
Vic
Sochan
Devin
Tre


I don't think it will be necessary to demote Tre, but don't sleep on the notion of Blake getting noticeably more minutes than Tre, more crunchtime than Tre, by year's end.

[Atl Spur]

Sochan will start I’m thinking.

[stnick2261]

What injury does Collins have?

Sorry, I know he’s healthy now… I meant injury history. I just see us going 6 deep at the 4/5 for health management.

[spurraider21]

Graham will play plenty imo

[duncan2150]

Not high on Graham, start With Wesley as a back up and if he is not good maybe you play Graham.

[exstatic]

For all the debates about starting, positions, etc., presuming no other moves are made, I see this as the best way to view it . . .

Guaranteed to start: Wembanyama, Vassell

Likely to start: Collins, Johnson, Jones

Guaranteed to play significant minutes: Sochan, Branham, McDermott

Competing for minutes: Champagnie, Bassey, Graham, Bullock, Osman, Mamukelashvili

Deep bench/G-League: Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko, Rice

Buy out/waived: Stevens, Birch

Right now, excluding the ones you have as buyouts/ waivers, you have 18 players, and 16 of them have NBA contracts, with only Rice as a 2 way, and Barlow as a 2 way last year with a QO hanging. Something else has to give. You can only have 15 NBA contracts by the beginning of the season.

[Dejounte]

Guaranteed: Wemby, Sochan, Vassell

Likely: Collins, Jones

Significant: Keldon, Bran, Champagnie, McDermott, Osman

Competing: Wesley, Graham, Mamu, Bassey, Barlow

Deep bench: Bullock, Cissoko, Rice

Cut: Birch, Stevens

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Guaranteed: Wemby, Sochan, Vassell

Likely: Collins, Jones

Significant: Keldon, Bran, Champagnie, McDermott, Osman

Competing: Wesley, Graham, Mamu, Bassey, Barlow

Deep bench: Bullock, Cissoko, Rice

Cut: Birch, Stevens

Wemby, Sochan, Johnson, Vassell and Jones would be an interesting starting 5, but Collins probably needs to be in there moving Keldon to the second unit. Overall I like your positioning of folks. Not high on Graham, but you might be right with his placement. Bassey might be deep bench, quite honestly. His skillset, or lack thereof, gets exploited quite a bit.

[spurraider21]

pop already anointed Collins as the starting center, the spurs have been listing Wemby as a forward in summer league games, and he has almost exclusively played alongside barlow/bediako in summer league minutes.

imo theres a much higher chance that sochan comes off the bench than zollins. at least to start the season. maybe later they start wemby/sochan frontcourt. or maybe keldon moves to the bench and sochan is able to pull off starting at the 3. but i dont think we see that right away

[TD 21]

Right now, excluding the ones you have as buyouts/ waivers, you have 18 players, and 16 of them have NBA contracts, with only Rice as a 2 way, and Barlow as a 2 way last year with a QO hanging. Something else has to give. You can only have 15 NBA contracts by the beginning of the season.

I'm aware.

Despite the speculation of a standard, to my knowledge and even though he's obviously playing, Cissoko hasn't been officially signed.

[exstatic]

I'm aware.

Despite the speculation of a standard, to my knowledge and even though he's obviously playing, Cissoko hasn't been officially signed.

They’d have to renounce his rights to not sign him to an NBA level contract. He can’t go on a 2way, since he requires a buyout from Baskonia in the ACB Spanish league, who loaned him to the Ignite, and you can’t provide a buyout for a 2way.

[tonight...you]

I'm aware.

Despite the speculation of a standard, to my knowledge and even though he's obviously playing, Cissoko hasn't been officially signed.
He absolutely has to be signed for the team to pay the buyout.
There are no if's, and's, or but's about it.

[DAF86]

What I would do:

Starting lineup:

Tre - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Wemby

Bench:

Branham - Champagnie - McDermott - Collins

Backup PG comitee by Brahnam, Champagnie and Sochan

3 bigmen rotation with Wemby, Sochan and Collins. Everyone playing around 30 minutes per game.

[Mugen]

What I would do:

Starting lineup:

Tre - Vassell - Keldon - Sochan - Wemby

Bench:

Branham - Champagnie - McDermott - Collins

Backup PG comitee by Brahnam, Champagnie and Sochan

3 bigmen rotation with Wemby, Sochan and Collins. Everyone playing around 30 minutes per game.

I think Bassey will get a good chunk of minutes (or Barlow if he continues his ascent). I'm not loving a 3 big rotation where each of those guys you suggested has durability concerns.

[TD 21]

They’d have to renounce his rights to not sign him to an NBA level contract. He can’t go on a 2way, since he requires a buyout from Baskonia in the ACB Spanish league, who loaned him to the Ignite, and you can’t provide a buyout for a 2way.



He absolutely has to be signed for the team to pay the buyout.
There are no if's, and's, or but's about it.

I've read the same, but I also don't recall them definitively saying he'll be on the team next season.

Even if he is, that's doesn't really change anything at the moment, though I'd suspect Bullock, in some capacity, would be the odd man out.

[cutewizard]

Is this possible..??

Zach, Wemby, Sochan, Kelton, Vassell

Strongest five..?

But who will, handle the ball?

[spurraider21]

if this stuff about cissoko being ineligible for a 2way is true, maybe a one year stash is the best case scenario?

[tonight...you]

if this stuff about cissoko being ineligible for a 2way is true, maybe a one year stash is the best case scenario?
Can't do that either. Has to be signed to a real contract bud.

[DAF86]

I think Bassey will get a good chunk of minutes (or Barlow if he continues his ascent). I'm not loving a 3 big rotation where each of those guys you suggested has durability concerns.

How far has load management come that teenagers can't even play 30 minutes per game, tbh. :lol

If anyone is hurting just sit him outright. But if they are fine, our rookie and sophomore should be playing, at the very least, 30 minutes per game, tbh.

The durability issues with Wembanyama are more theoretical than real, tbh. Didn't he play all games of the last French league? He's also on the record saying he doesn't want to be load managed and he wants to win RoY. That won't happen playing less than 30 minutes per game, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Can't do that either. Has to be signed to a real contract bud.
has draft and stash become illegal?

[heyheymymy]

has draft and stash become illegal?

I thought it had more to do the the buy out mechanism for the team he was with before.

In order to satisfy his buyout clause with his old team, the new team must put Cissoko under a traditional contract or something.

[RC_Drunkford]

Gotta agree with OP here. Sochan will most likely come off the bench, even if some here don’t want to believe it

[tonight...you]

has draft and stash become illegal?
You know... after I posted this reply to you I started thinking about the dynamics of it all.

I really don't know if letting him stay with his oversea team is both possible, desirable, or legal.

Maybe it is. Maybe someone more knowledgeable upon the subject can come in and interject.

[heyheymymy]

And as such is possibly how Spurs knew he might still be around at #44 due to less teams being willing to sign him outright which was mandatory to pay the buyout clause with Cissoko's former team thus depreciating his value since it was a higher obligation that most teams were willing to undertake.

Which allowed SA to flip the more valuable #33 for additional assets and still get their perceived value player pick anyway.

Incredible deal art buy the San Antonio Spurs front office if true.

[BacktoBasics]

I understand that the consensus is that Wemby requires or is demanding a center to play alongside him. However my lineup would be.

5 Wemby
4 Sochan
3 Keldon
2 Vassell
1 Tre

With Malaki and Collins first off the bench if not Graham. Then Julian, Dougie and Barlow as rotation players. Mamu possibly.

Wesley and Sidy would do well in the G.

Bassey is an unknown right now. He’s gotta come back healthy.

I imagine you would play Bullock and Cedi early ahead of a few guys because they would bring trade value at the deadline.

[spurraider21]

I thought it had more to do the the buy out mechanism for the team he was with before.

In order to satisfy his buyout clause with his old team, the new team must put Cissoko under a traditional contract or something.
i understand that if the spurs want to buy out his contract, they will be required to make that part of a regular NBA contract, and not a 2-way deal

im talking about not buying him out. let him stay under his baskonia contract. of course, possibility exists that he and his agent had long expressed his desire to come straight to the nba and were not expecting to be a stash. i know there's a mechanism for players to force their way over and sign the minimum second round tender, but that would also require him to pay for his own buyout. or he'd just ask to be traded to a team willing to give him that roster spot

[Mugen]

How far has load management come that teenagers can't even play 30 minutes per game, tbh. :lol

If anyone is hurting just sit him outright. But if they are fine, our rookie and sophomore should be playing, at the very least, 30 minutes per game, tbh.

The durability issues with Wembanyama are more theoretical than real, tbh. Didn't he play all games of the last French league? He's also on the record saying he doesn't want to be load managed and he wants to win RoY. That won't happen playing less than 30 minutes per game, tbh.

I mean you're literally talking about the coach and organization that invented load management :lol

They're not old but Sochan/Collins have legit durability concerns and PATFO will be kid gloves with Victor, I almost guarantee it tbh

FWIW, I think they're better served playing "big" anyways and would rather take minutes away from McD/Champs so they can always have 2 of Sochan/Wemby/Collins/Bassey/Barlow on the court at all times.

[Dhbsr555]

For all the debates about starting, positions, etc., presuming no other moves are made, I see this as the best way to view it . . .

Guaranteed to start: Wembanyama, Vassell

Likely to start: Collins, Johnson, Jones

Guaranteed to play significant minutes: Sochan, Branham, McDermott

Competing for minutes: Champagnie, Bassey, Graham, Bullock, Osman, Mamukelashvili

Deep bench/G-League: Wesley, Barlow, Cissoko, Rice

Buy out/waived: Stevens, Birch
if they don’t start sochan spurs fo hasn’t got a clue what they are doing

[Mugen]

I don't like Sochan coming off the bench. I want him starting out on the opponent's best guard/wing scorer every night. Keldon has his big contract and he can get all the shots he wants with the 2nd unit tbh.

[Dhbsr555]

I don't like Sochan coming off the bench. I want him starting out on the opponent's best guard/wing scorer every night. Keldon has his big contract and he can get all the shots he wants with the 2nd unit tbh.
The way they have been promoting sochan all off-season it’s highly unlikely that sochan comes off the bench . And it’s not smart he’s our best defender .

[heyheymymy]

Sochan seems best suited for PF although I do believe he can play SF, especially situationally.

But in most cases last year, Sochan seemed like a PF with only Poeltl Zollins Deing or Bassey as the next biggest player.

And the few times another approx ~6'8 ish player joined Sochan with either Poeltl/Zollins/Bassey, it was Roby or KBD clearly playing SF which seems to put Sochan at PF.

Not sure I want to pull Sochan away from the rim on either side of the court. Not sure he has the 3 ball necessary to play wing against starters (but it was improving). Not sure I want Victor and Sochan both out there simultaneously to start games since one could back up the other during foul trouble issues. It's like blowing both loads at once and not saving backup plans. Still don't see a solution yet for the starting 5 and will be interesting to see what they do. Either way you're either playing guys possibly out of natural position/strengths or benching a top 10 pick lol. Victor does not seem like a C. Sochan does not seem like a PG. Please stop proposing those lineups. I mean it's possible and Spurs always tries out experiments, but I'm wary of the success potential barring some developmental leaps from the players.

If we don't trade some wings which I believe will happen Sochan kinda stuffs into SF pretty badly. Pushing KJ to the bench with Bullock, Champagnie, Doug and Osman already there seems imbalanced barring additional trade moves.

But I believe Sochan could succeed at SF. Especially if he's been working on it this summer: foot speed, shooting, three pointers.

[Mr. Body]

Keldon is maximized as a starter and fits that unit best and still think Sochan comes off the bench.

[heyheymymy]

Jones/Graham
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/Bullock/Doug
Wembanyama/Sochan/Cissoko
Zollins/Mamu/Bassey

Needs another guard though. Maybe swap Cissoko and dress out Blake Wesley instead. Bullock can play up on some PF to cover depth. Again as it stands barring additional trade moves/new personnel. Dump or waive any or all of Stevens Birch and Osman? Something like that at least.

[Mr. Body]

Wesley is going to get much more run than people think.

[Dhbsr555]

Pretty damn sure starters are locked as sochan Devin keldon wemby Collins . Pop has said multiple times sochan is a natural pg also if spurs didn’t see sochan as a starter why would they hold him out of sl . There is no chance sochan doesn’t start . Also sochan is our best perimeter defender and we were the worse defensive team last year . Putting him on the bench would make no sense .

[Mr. Body]

Sochan is going to get torched guarding the Kyrie and asGA and Foxes of the league. He's much better playing backline anyway. Permanently guarding the perimeter gets him into foul trouble, breaks defensive shape... Just don't see it at all.

[heyheymymy]

Actually something like this maybe:

Jones/Graham/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/Bullock/Champagnie
Wembanyama/Sochan
Zollins/Mamu/Bassey

[scott]

People sleeping on Bassey. I’ll revisit this in a few months when he’s ballin’ out.

[DAF86]

Actually something like this maybe:

Jones/Graham/Wesley
Vassell/Branham
Johnson/Bullock/Champagnie
Wembanyama/Sochan
Zollins/Mamu/Bassey




There's no way McDermott isn't part of the rotation. I don't see Bullock playing much.

[heyheymymy]

Thinking about these pairings in the bigs rotation eventually as the game settles in:

C: Zollins
PF: Sochan

C: Mamu
PF: Wembanyama

C: Bassey
PF: Bullock

[heyheymymy]

There's no way McDermott isn't part of the rotation. I don't see Bullock playing much.

Good call yeah I'm a little tripped up with the wing situation right now and think additional trade moves seem almost certain.

Probably reading too much into Bullock hyping Victor on twitter that it might mean he feels he might stay on.

But swap Bullock with Doug in my mock and I don't disagree at all.

[heyheymymy]

Unless Doug is traded and in a different uniform that is!

[rascal]

So it looks like most here are happy with the Spurs adding Wemby to last year's team with no significant additions to the roster.

[heyheymymy]

i understand that if the spurs want to buy out his contract, they will be required to make that part of a regular NBA contract, and not a 2-way deal

im talking about not buying him out. let him stay under his baskonia contract. of course, possibility exists that he and his agent had long expressed his desire to come straight to the nba and were not expecting to be a stash. i know there's a mechanism for players to force their way over and sign the minimum second round tender, but that would also require him to pay for his own buyout. or he'd just ask to be traded to a team willing to give him that roster spot

ahh let him stay under baskonia would indeed be a slick stash if possible to arrange such a deal. SA def needs to bend the roster capacity in some way and it would be awesome to retain his rights while he is doing the developmental play he already would be doing anyway if he held a Spurs slot.

Wonder if that's the current negotiations then? Interesting point you made.

[scott]

So it looks like most here are happy with the Spurs adding Wemby to last year's team with no significant additions to the roster.

Looks more like a thread about how the current roster is formed. Individual happiness isn’t really a topic here, Debbie Downer.

[BacktoBasics]

I mean you're literally talking about the coach and organization that invented load management :lol

They're not old but Sochan/Collins have legit durability concerns and PATFO will be kid gloves with Victor, I almost guarantee it tbh

FWIW, I think they're better served playing "big" anyways and would rather take minutes away from McD/Champs so they can always have 2 of Sochan/Wemby/Collins/Bassey/Barlow on the court at all times.

Collins I can understand but Sochan doesn’t have durability issues.

Had we been in the playoff hunt he wouldn’t have missed nearly as many games. As much I would have liked to see him in the summer league it makes sense to lean on “health” knowing that out of all the young players he’s the one who needed the summer games the least.

No reason for Sochan to eat up Barlow minutes when the Spurs really needed to determine just how much of a leap Barlow actually made.

[K...]

i understand that if the spurs want to buy out his contract, they will be required to make that part of a regular NBA contract, and not a 2-way deal

im talking about not buying him out. let him stay under his baskonia contract. of course, possibility exists that he and his agent had long expressed his desire to come straight to the nba and were not expecting to be a stash. i know there's a mechanism for players to force their way over and sign the minimum second round tender, but that would also require him to pay for his own buyout. or he'd just ask to be traded to a team willing to give him that roster spot

we have to offer a contract or we lose his rights. He played well enough to get a rotation spot, at a position we need depth. Dont overthink these.


Does anyone remember the player who forced the spurs to offer a contract? I remember a scenario where there was a threat to leave

[Twisted_Dawg]

Don't we still have $13 million to spend? If so, somebody else is coming in and filler out.

[Kurik]

Don't we still have $13 million to spend? If so, somebody else is coming in and filler out.

I believe the Spurs have hit the floor with the Osman and Bullock trades, they have room but they don’t have to spend right now but they can make more deals or wait til the trade deadline I believe. They do need to make cuts by October.

[spurraider21]

we have to offer a contract or we lose his rights. He played well enough to get a rotation spot, at a position we need depth. Dont overthink these.


Does anyone remember the player who forced the spurs to offer a contract? I remember a scenario where there was a threat to leave
not exactly the case for players who are under contract in another league. theres a process by which the player has to pay the buyout of his existing overseas contract, and then he gives the nba team formal notice that he is available to sign an nba contract. at that point, the team has a limited period of time to tender him a second round minimum contract.

if cissoko is still under contract with baskonia, he isnt currently eligible for an nba contract. the buyout has to happen first. often times, this is negotiated, and the team gets involved and pays some money directly toward the buyout, and usually will factor in the rest of the required buyout money into the player's contract

the spurs can tell cissoko that they have no obligation to offer him a contract until he gets out of the baskonia deal. if the spurs want him stashed, they can simply say they are unwilling to participate in his buyout. that could turn into a scola situation. or maybe cissoko agrees that he's better off staying on his deal with baskonia (and potentially being rented to the gleague again) rather than forcing his way onto a back end nba roster spot and not getting playing time anyway

and no, cissoko certainly hasnt "earned a rotation spot" lol. he's played ok enough defensively against summer league competition, but thats a far cry from real nba games. and his lack of scoring ability has been an eye sore. he's definitely not rotation ready. and thats to be expected. he was a mid 2nd round pick. thats usually not a recipe for year 1 real rotation minutes

[rascal]

Looks more like a thread about how the current roster is formed. Individual happiness isn’t really a topic here, Debbie Downer.

It's the same roster as last year with the addition of Wemby.

I don't know why there is so much speculation or concern who starts, it isn't going to really matter who starts. The same core players as last year are going to get the minutes with Wemby added.

[scott]

It's the same roster as last year with the addition of Wemby.

I don't know why there is so much speculation or concern who starts, it isn't going to really matter who starts. The same core players as last year are going to get the minutes with Wemby added.

Since I’m sure the NBA is not going to suddenly change the rules to add extra minutes to the game, people on a Spurs message board are discussing the Spurs roster.

It’s fine that you think the Spurs have the least talented roster in the league. You remind us of it in every thread. But at some point you could consider positively contributing to a thread.

[K...]

not exactly the case for players who are under contract in another league. theres a process by which the player has to pay the buyout of his existing overseas contract, and then he gives the nba team formal notice that he is available to sign an nba contract. at that point, the team has a limited period of time to tender him a second round minimum contract.

if cissoko is still under contract with baskonia, he isnt currently eligible for an nba contract. the buyout has to happen first. often times, this is negotiated, and the team gets involved and pays some money directly toward the buyout, and usually will factor in the rest of the required buyout money into the player's contract

the spurs can tell cissoko that they have no obligation to offer him a contract until he gets out of the baskonia deal. if the spurs want him stashed, they can simply say they are unwilling to participate in his buyout. that could turn into a scola situation. or maybe cissoko agrees that he's better off staying on his deal with baskonia (and potentially being rented to the gleague again) rather than forcing his way onto a back end nba roster spot and not getting playing time anyway

and no, cissoko certainly hasnt "earned a rotation spot" lol. he's played ok enough defensively against summer league competition, but thats a far cry from real nba games. and his lack of scoring ability has been an eye sore. he's definitely not rotation ready. and thats to be expected. he was a mid 2nd round pick. thats usually not a recipe for year 1 real rotation minutes

so if the spurs dont give him a spot , and he pays his own buyout do the spurs have his rights? at what point can another team sign cissoko and pay his buyout? the scenario you mention is one in which the player and foreign team want to keep going. I don't think either want to. The foriegn team gets a cut of the payout. if the spurs fuck this up, it's really bad for their future SRP picking. And they have a lot of SRP!




Who is our backup and 3rd PG?

[Dejounte]

Sochan seems best suited for PF although I do believe he can play SF, especially situationally.

But in most cases last year, Sochan seemed like a PF with only Poeltl Zollins Deing or Bassey as the next biggest player.

And the few times another approx ~6'8 ish player joined Sochan with either Poeltl/Zollins/Bassey, it was Roby or KBD clearly playing SF which seems to put Sochan at PF.

Not sure I want to pull Sochan away from the rim on either side of the court. Not sure he has the 3 ball necessary to play wing against starters (but it was improving). Not sure I want Victor and Sochan both out there simultaneously to start games since one could back up the other during foul trouble issues. It's like blowing both loads at once and not saving backup plans. Still don't see a solution yet for the starting 5 and will be interesting to see what they do. Either way you're either playing guys possibly out of natural position/strengths or benching a top 10 pick lol. Victor does not seem like a C. Sochan does not seem like a PG. Please stop proposing those lineups. I mean it's possible and Spurs always tries out experiments, but I'm wary of the success potential barring some developmental leaps from the players.

If we don't trade some wings which I believe will happen Sochan kinda stuffs into SF pretty badly. Pushing KJ to the bench with Bullock, Champagnie, Doug and Osman already there seems imbalanced barring additional trade moves.

But I believe Sochan could succeed at SF. Especially if he's been working on it this summer: foot speed, shooting, three pointers.

Going to disprove this myth through multiple posts.


https://youtu.be/L_-dPiN9X9k

i only went through a quarter of this video (first 12 minutes of this 50 min video) because I was trying to hurry, but here are the times Sochan wasn’t playing PF:

0:30 - Jalen Smith on Keldon, Tyrese on Sochan
3:52 - Aldama on Keldon, Dillon Brooks on Sochan
5:16 - Draymond on Keldon, Wiggins on Sochan
6:52 - Metu on KBD, Huerter on Sochan
7:23 - Marcus Morris on KBD, Reggie Jackson on Sochan
11:47 - Jabari Smith on KBD, Jalen Green on Sochan
12:21 - Jabari Smith on KBD, KPJ on Sochan

I’ll either find a different video or go through the rest of it later

It is tough dissecting highlight videos like this because a lot of the plays are fast breaks which clearly isnt representative of matchups. I didnt include those in my list obviously

[Dejounte]

Since I’m sure the NBA is going to suddenly change the rules to add extra minutes to the game, people on a Spurs message board are discussing the Spurs roster.

It’s fine that you think the Spurs have the least talented roster in the league. You remind us of it in every thread. But at some point you could consider positively contributing to a thread.

Did someone here once say rascal was a 60+ year old man, one who probably has had his brain fried from life experiences? He sure does act like it (forgetful, slow to understand, repeats the same thing over and over).

[cutewizard]

The Apotheosis of Basketball, the 2014 Beautiful Game



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI

[jjspur]

Not sure Bullock or McNuggets make it to the start of the season not to mention Osman or Stevens. Include Birch on that list as well. Some of theses guys have a little bit of trade value but I can see the spurs just waiving a couple of them to make room for younger players. My guess is that whomever plays the best defense gets to stay, the others get traded (preferably) or just cut outright. Hasta la vista Birch.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvnRI7lIhv0


i love my Spuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrsssssssssssssss s

[buttsR4rebounding]

Keldon is maximized as a starter and fits that unit best and still think Sochan comes off the bench.

What do you base that on?

[slick'81]

Interested to see who plays more between osman and bullock

[scott]

Did someone here once say rascal was a 60+ year old man, one who probably has had his brain fried from life experiences? He sure does act like it (forgetful, slow to understand, repeats the same thing over and over).

This website is such a bizarre mix of brain dead, predictable dimwits and arrogant, argumentative assholes that it is a shock the handful of normal humans who come here tolerate it. And that’s without even diving into the clusterfuck of the Politics forum cesspool.

Fuck man, I just wanna talk about the Spurs but some folks make it goddamn difficult without spamming the ignore feature.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Interested to see who plays more between osman and bullock

I don't want to see any of our jags play. I want to see if our young guys can play and develop. The jags weren't brought in to help us win a championship. They were not brought in to be long term fixes. I don't want them getting minutes and shots over Champ, Barlow, Bassey and Mamu. Maybe Graham as back up PG and that's it. The rest can be cut or traded.

[XenoThirteen]

One has to think that if Sochan even becomes a 33% shooter from 3 and Vassel takes more of a scoring load this year, they’d be better off with the starting 5, pushing Keldon to lead the bench unit. I can totally see McNuggets/Graham getting significant minutes as someone Wemby can reliably pass to when he inevitably gets trapped/double teamed. By the end of the season we may see something like:

Guaranteed starters: Wemby, Vassel
Likely starting: Jones, Sochan, Collins
Significant minutes: Branham, Keldon, McNugz, Champ, Graham
Fringe/Situational: Mamu, Bassey, Barlowe
Gleague: Cissoko, Wesley

Hoping the Summer league performances actually translate to real production. If it does, this team seems pretty deep.

[Obstructed_View]

What do you base that on?
Well, see, Sochan came off the bench at Baylor...

[buttsR4rebounding]

Well, see, Sochan came off the bench at Baylor...

I assume you are being facetious.

[benefactor]

Sochan isn't a starter...:lol

The shit take express rides again.

[The Truth #6]

Lots of lenses to see how the roster and playing time shakes out: seniority, development, positional preference by the players, defense, offense, who is a two-way player, maximizing trade value, who best complements Victor, et cetera. I think a realistic conversation recognizes we don't know exactly what Pop is prioritizing, and maybe he doesn’t either, yet.

The most obvious and interesting logjam is PF with Victor, Sochan, and Keldon all best suited in this type of position. (I see Victor as a PF for now while he “figures it out”, Keldon as a PF because skinny Keldon basically failed last year to become a lighter better defender at SF and by the end had bulked up, and Sochan there because it plays to his versatility.)

How well Keldon or Sochan adapt to playing around Victor will likely decide their minutes and future with the team, unless Sochan has to sit out a lot for knee injuries.

Mamu could easily be on the outside looking in unless he makes a case for 3rd string center over Barlow.

Anyway, just rambling.

[Obstructed_View]

I assume you are being facetious.

You assume correctly.

[SpursFan86]

Funny that Spurs fans of all people would have such rigid/traditional takes on what it means to come off the bench. Sochan “coming off the bench” could still result in him playing some of the most minutes of anyone on the team and being in the game during crunch time. Sochan coming off the bench doesn’t mean the Spurs don’t view him as one of their best players, or that he won’t be a focal point of the team, or anything else along those lines.

I’m very high on Sochan and think he’ll be a top 3 player on the team next year. I also think he’ll come off the bench because the Spurs have made it clear they want to limit Victor’s minutes at center at this stage. I think it’ll be Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Victor/Collins…but Sochan will typically be the first guy subbed in and it won’t take long for that to happen most games. It also wouldn’t surprise me at all for Pop to experiment with lots of lineups as the season goes on…Sochan might come off the bench in the first half of the season but end up starting a lot down the stretch.

[Dejounte]

Funny that Spurs fans of all people would have such rigid/traditional takes on what it means to come off the bench. Sochan “coming off the bench” could still result in him playing some of the most minutes of anyone on the team and being in the game during crunch time. Sochan coming off the bench doesn’t mean the Spurs don’t view him as one of their best players, or that he won’t be a focal point of the team, or anything else along those lines.

I’m very high on Sochan and think he’ll be a top 3 player on the team next year. I also think he’ll come off the bench because the Spurs have made it clear they want to limit Victor’s minutes at center at this stage. I think it’ll be Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Victor/Collins…but Sochan will typically be the first guy subbed in and it won’t take long for that to happen most games. It also wouldn’t surprise me at all for Pop to experiment with lots of lineups as the season goes on…Sochan might come off the bench in the first half of the season but end up starting a lot down the stretch.

Sochan starting has nothing to do with any of those points tbh he’s the better overall fit with Wemby and the starting unit. Keldon proved last year he has a knack for scoring, why not continue that trend without being in Wemby’s shadow as far as touches go? Sochan is definitely the better defender, and we all agree that across the league, most teams have their best scorers as their starters. Why put Sochan on the bench for him to defend the opposing team’s lesser scorers? That completely ruins the point and doesn’t maximize his skills. Not only that but his ruggedness and willingness to do the dirty work is perfect alongside Wemby and Collins (who is soft and not very physical inside).

Better defense to start = set the tone for the rest of the game + less of a hole the team is dug in if opposing teams are going on a scoring blitz at the beginning of the game

[SpursFan86]

Sochan starting has nothing to do with any of those points tbh he’s the better overall fit with Wemby and the starting unit. Keldon proved last year he has a knack for scoring, why not continue that trend without being in Wemby’s shadow as far as touches go? Sochan is definitely the better defender, and we all agree that across the league, most teams have their best scorers as their starters. Why put Sochan on the bench for him to defend the opposing team’s lesser scorers? That completely ruins the point and doesn’t maximize his skills. Not only that but his ruggedness and willingness to do the dirty work is perfect alongside Wemby and Collins (who is soft and not very physical inside).

Better defense to start = set the tone for the rest of the game + less of a hole the team is dug in if opposing teams are going on a scoring blitz at the beginning of the game

You’re again falling into the trap I just talked about though. Sochan coming off the bench doesn’t mean he won’t spend time guarding the opposing team’s best players. Did Manu always play against other team’s bench players, or was he playing minutes all throughout the game with/against multiple units and especially in crunch time when it mattered most?

I actually don’t disagree that Keldon coming off the bench with Sochan starting could work well too. Just seems less likely IMO.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Well, see, Sochan came off the bench at Baylor...
Devin Booker came off the bench at Kentucky
will he be sent to the bench too?

[Old School 44]

I agree with the Op’s starting lineup of Wemby, Collins, Jones, Johnson, Vassel. Starting is overrated. Even if he doesn’t start, Sochan may get more minutes than any of the starters outside of Victor. Crazy how young and talented this team is. Kind of reminds me of the young OKC team of Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka. The trick is, as they develop, knowing which ones to keep. I hope we continue to build through the draft and developing our youth. Buckle up, I think we’re in for a fun ride!

[Dejounte]

You’re again falling into the trap I just talked about though. Sochan coming off the bench doesn’t mean he won’t spend time guarding the opposing team’s best players. Did Manu always play against other team’s bench players, or was he playing minutes all throughout the game with/against multiple units and especially in crunch time when it mattered most?

I actually don’t disagree that Keldon coming off the bench with Sochan starting could work well too. Just seems less likely IMO.

WHA?? Manu WAS absolutely feasting on the opposing team’s lesser players majority of the time. That is what made the old Spurs special.

[Obstructed_View]

You’re again falling into the trap I just talked about though. Sochan coming off the bench doesn’t mean he won’t spend time guarding the opposing team’s best players. Did Manu always play against other team’s bench players, or was he playing minutes all throughout the game with/against multiple units and especially in crunch time when it mattered most?

I actually don’t disagree that Keldon coming off the bench with Sochan starting could work well too. Just seems less likely IMO.

Manu came off the bench two different times. The first time was because Michael Finley shit the bed if he wasn't starting, and Manu will be prepared to come in no matter what. The second time was because Danny Green was a weapon from three as well as an elite defender of superstars, who start. Manu could then be a weapon against second strings or gassed first units.

If you really need a sixth man, it should be Keldon because he will never give less effort coming off the bench, and you can unleash him on the opponent like they used to do with Manu.

I got no problem with messing with lineups to see who does the best in both roles. Jeremy's size and ability in the paint should go really well with Victor.

[MaNu4Tres]

I see so many people on here stuck with the archaic idea NEEDING a labeled PG or traditional PG.

The game has changed.

I think the Spurs are aware of this as well ( this is why they didn’t address adding a traditional PG.

Im ALL IN behind Sochan playing “ PG”, and it’s not necessarily wanting him to pound the air out of the basketball ball initiation offense majority of possessions.

That simply does not exist anymore in todays NBA with how the ball moves combined with the level of talent across every position. Not even Tre was THAT in the half court last year. He played mostly off the ball in the half court. He only averaged 1 more PnR opportunity a game than Keldon last season. The Spurs had a more collective approach.

At the end of the day, the best players will garner most opportunities or possessions to make plays by nature and common sense.

The reason behind why I prefer Sochan playing at the “PG” position is to unlock tremendous matchup edges on the perimeter on both ends of the floor — where targeting will not exist for opposing teams. Defensive versatility will be at its optimal capacity where you can go to any coverage and have an edge. The length will narrow passing & penetration lanes — which can maximize deflections/rebound/stops— which maximizes fast breaks/semi transition/easy opportunities.

Offensively, the Spurs will have a size/length advantage at nearly every opportunity or wrinkle in a ball movement heavy style of offense in primary or secondary opportunities from all 3 levels — and all but 1 player is capable to manufacture offense from the perimeter.

Quality versatility & length with universal ball skills will be the new NBA & the Spurs will now have a personnel edge most teams do not have. They would be foolish not to exploit this unique edge.

The floor general concept being narrowed into the labeled "PG" position box is overstated in the modern game as ball skills are becoming universal across all positions.

Spurs are going to have a "center" (Wemby) and "power forward" (Sochan) that will be able to manufacture offense and be an initiator on the perimeter. That is an example of how ball skills have evolved.

Zach - Wemby - KJ- Dev - Sochan can play together and the latter 4 can share responsibilities & playmaking duties. A collective attack.

[MaNu4Tres]

As for Keldon starting over Tre in the above scenario, I think it’s obvious he was asked to do too much last season and no one should take THAT Keldon and think that’s what he is. Roles and nuance are important here.

I think Keldon could realistically go back to shooting 40% from three with more uncontested spot up opportunities and less contested pull up 3’s. I also think he has more value as a paint attacker than Tre in secondary opportunities against a moving defense. Believe it or not, the Spurs averaged more points per possession with Keldon as a PNR initiator than Tre last season — despite the narrative surrounding Tre. So did Vassell and Branham fwiw.

On the defensive end, starting Keldon allows the Spurs more versatility unlocking Sochan as the defender of point of attack play makers — allowing Keldon to defend the weaker off ball wing without giving up a size advantage. With Tre, Tre is going to be stuck defending smaller POA playmakers and it puts Sochan strictly on an off ball wing. On top of this, with starting Tre , smart teams can target him with their wing initiators to create advantages. Starting Keldon eliminates the possibility for teams to target.

[couchman]

I think Pop will tinker w the starting lineup a lot and there are three lineups we’ll see fairly often:

Day 1 lineup:
C- Collins
PF - Wemby
SF - Keldon
SG - Vassell
PG - Tre

Alternate lineup:

Switch out Tre and start Sochan at PG

Wemby Load Managed lineup:

C - Collins
PF - Sochan
SF - Keldon
SG - Vassell
PG - Tre

I also think there is a solid chance that Branham cracks the starting lineup sometime this year and never looks back

[spurraider21]

Manu came off the bench two different times. The first time was because Michael Finley shit the bed if he wasn't starting, and Manu will be prepared to come in no matter what. The second time was because Danny Green was a weapon from three as well as an elite defender of superstars, who start. Manu could then be a weapon against second strings or gassed first units.

If you really need a sixth man, it should be Keldon because he will never give less effort coming off the bench, and you can unleash him on the opponent like they used to do with Manu.

I got no problem with messing with lineups to see who does the best in both roles. Jeremy's size and ability in the paint should go really well with Victor.
Manu was a full time starter for exactly 2 seasons. Wasn’t always about Finley or green

[wildbill2u]

Is this possible..??

Zach, Wemby, Sochan, Kelton, Vassell

Strongest five..?



But who will, handle the ball? Very cute. CIA Pop would put Wemby at PG in this line up. :rolleyes

[thOOdee]

don't think this will be the lineup, but what should be is:

1. jones
2. vassell
3. wemby
4. sochan
5. collins

[wildbill2u]

Pop is definitely going to be conservative about the starting lineup to begin the season. So simply add Wemby at PF with Collins, Tre, Vassell and....Keldon, dammit. However Sochan replacing Keldon early and often to show how that works and Keldon on the bench.

The second team will probably never be a unit at the same time, but players will substitute in based on starters conditioning, contribution that game so far, etc. I see 2nd team replacements as:

Center. Barlow before Massey based on his end of season performance and Sl showing while Massey shows he has recovered from injury. That's if they keep Barlow at center. I believe he could actually play down to SF he is so agile a defender.

PF: McDermott minutes will definitely be based on team goal for the season. He is a great shooter and can help a team win some games if the team is actually going for the playoffs. One of few actual veteran presences on roster may help his minutes a well, but are there many PF prospects that could be thrown in the fire? Mamu? Sochan? Barlow? All can play more than one position.

PG: Jones owns it, coming into the season. Graham at back up PG is ok and best available on the roster right now. I suppose you could throw Branham in there, but he is not ready for this role yet. Not a good floor manager or adequate defender. But as a third option, OK

SG: Vassell starts, assuming Vassell is completely healthy and back to form. Branham is the natural backup to Vassell. Branham got a lot of minutes as a rookie, but mostly due to roster shakeup and tanking IMO. I don't think he is ready to take the role of SG away from Vassell, but he might surprise us by end of the season. He definitely is a chucker, willing to keep putting them up even when missing lots of shots and that fearlessness is what you need at SG. So, pencil him in here, but he has to work on shot mechanics to keep release point higher and away from defender. Champ can fit in here as well. The problem is Champ is going to prove a better defender, rebounder and passer and his shooting looks terrific. How do you keep him down on the farm if he continues to do as well. (See SF.)

SF: Keldon is going to start the season as the starter here. However, We have several up-and-coming players who fit this position. I can see Champ and Sochan getting minutes and one of the other getting more minutes than Keldon.

We don't have enough information as to how any other players now on the roster could play fit into this team. Most of the rest are relatively unknown qualities or so raw that they really need to go to G League.

As I started moving players around and slotting them in positions it became apparent to me that this roster if full of players that can be moved in and out of the rotation at more than one position. Pop is a genius at trying to use matchups and rest times to utilize his players skill sets to the team's needs in game-to-game situations. It may be that some of these younger players will find their permanent place in the Spurs, or the NBA, as they develop those skill sets to their fullest potential. But I doubt Sochan will ever be a NBA PG full time as that doesn't seem to be his highest and best use. I wouldn't be surprised however to see a lot of different lineups and Pop using his bench all the way down to ten players on a regular basis.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan starting has nothing to do with any of those points tbh he’s the better overall fit with Wemby and the starting unit. Keldon proved last year he has a knack for scoring, why not continue that trend without being in Wemby’s shadow as far as touches go? Sochan is definitely the better defender, and we all agree that across the league, most teams have their best scorers as their starters. Why put Sochan on the bench for him to defend the opposing team’s lesser scorers? That completely ruins the point and doesn’t maximize his skills. Not only that but his ruggedness and willingness to do the dirty work is perfect alongside Wemby and Collins (who is soft and not very physical inside).

Better defense to start = set the tone for the rest of the game + less of a hole the team is dug in if opposing teams are going on a scoring blitz at the beginning of the game

spacing

[DAF86]

Manu was a full time starter for exactly 2 seasons. Wasn’t always about Finley or green

Not coincidentally, the only 2 times he was selected an all-star. :wakeup

Whether we want to admit it or not, starting or coming off the bench does make a difference, and not everybody is Manu to be unphased by it, tbh.

[spurraider21]

spacing
and its not a granted that wemby is going to be some incredible floor spacer off the bat. he's not a great 3pt shooter yet. if anything, he requires a lot of space to operate offensively since he likes the face up game as much as he does.

[RC_Drunkford]

I see so many people on here stuck with the archaic idea NEEDING a labeled PG or traditional PG.

The game has changed.

I think the Spurs are aware of this as well ( this is why they didn’t address adding a traditional PG.

Im ALL IN behind Sochan playing “ PG”, and it’s not necessarily wanting him to pound the air out of the basketball ball initiation offense majority of possessions.

That simply does not exist anymore in todays NBA with how the ball moves combined with the level of talent across every position. Not even Tre was THAT in the half court last year. He played mostly off the ball in the half court. He only averaged 1 more PnR opportunity a game than Keldon last season. The Spurs had a more collective approach.

At the end of the day, the best players will garner most opportunities or possessions to make plays by nature and common sense.

The reason behind why I prefer Sochan playing at the “PG” position is to unlock tremendous matchup edges on the perimeter on both ends of the floor — where targeting will not exist for opposing teams. Defensive versatility will be at its optimal capacity where you can go to any coverage and have an edge. The length will narrow passing & penetration lanes — which can maximize deflections/rebound/stops— which maximizes fast breaks/semi transition/easy opportunities.

Offensively, the Spurs will have a size/length advantage at nearly every opportunity or wrinkle in a ball movement heavy style of offense in primary or secondary opportunities from all 3 levels — and all but 1 player is capable to manufacture offense from the perimeter.

Quality versatility & length with universal ball skills will be the new NBA & the Spurs will now have a personnel edge most teams do not have. They would be foolish not to exploit this unique edge.

The floor general concept being narrowed into the labeled "PG" position box is overstated in the modern game as ball skills are becoming universal across all positions.

Spurs are going to have a "center" (Wemby) and "power forward" (Sochan) that will be able to manufacture offense and be an initiator on the perimeter. That is an example of how ball skills have evolved.

Zach - Wemby - KJ- Dev - Sochan can play together and the latter 4 can share responsibilities & playmaking duties. A collective attack.

that's certainly the way they have been building the roster. Positionless basketball with multiple ball handlers. Would also be our strongest line up on paper, but one has to see if it works. I totally expect Pop to go full mad scientist this season and play all kind of crazy line ups, including this one. The thing that's missing there though is a player who's fast enough to get into the lane to suck in the defense.

[John B]

don't think this will be the lineup, but what should be is:

1. jones
2. vassell
3. wemby
4. sochan
5. collins

This should be the proper starting line-up

Jones - PG. He is Spurs only true PG and necessary floor general like Avery did with DRob and Timmy

Vassell - SG. He is the better defender at point-of-attack and can shoot the ball anywhere on the court

Wemby - SF. He plays from the perimeter like KD and more effective as help defender than manning post vs Sochan.

Sochan - PF. Is a better post defender than Wemby (for now). Also help limit Wemby from getting pounded down low

Collins - C. Is the best option at Center position. He can post, defend the paint while also space with his outside shot.

Johnson - 6th man Manu role. He will bring havoc to the opposing 2nd unit with his incessant drive to the basket. He can close the game, with Sochan sliding to PG. Whether Keldon buys in will be crucial. But Manu was a Hofer playing exact role.

It’s unlikely starting line-up, but what makes sense.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu was a full time starter for exactly 2 seasons. Wasn’t always about Finley or green

Yea it was. Look at the rosters.

[spurraider21]

Yea it was. Look at the rosters.
that doesnt explain him coming off the bench for roger mason jr and keith bogans

[Vince Carter's ankle]

This should be the proper starting line-up

Jones - PG. He is Spurs only true PG and necessary floor general like Avery did with DRob and Timmy

Vassell - SG. He is the better defender at point-of-attack and can shoot the ball anywhere on the court

Wemby - SF. He plays from the perimeter like KD and more effective as help defender than manning post vs Sochan.

Sochan - PF. Is a better post defender than Wemby (for now). Also help limit Wemby from getting pounded down low

Collins - C. Is the best option at Center position. He can post, defend the paint while also space with his outside shot.

Johnson - 6th man Manu role. He will bring havoc to the opposing 2nd unit with his incessant drive to the basket. He can close the game, with Sochan sliding to PG. Whether Keldon buys in will be crucial. But Manu was a Hofer playing exact role.

It’s unlikely starting line-up, but what makes sense.
Victor can't play like a KD and show star efficiency, because he is slower and has a worse dribbling
And that's not to mention his shooting ability
He'll have to play inside a lot
In general, this whole topic with positions is meaningless
As Mowry said more than 10 years ago, there are no positions, there are about 15 roles in basketball, depending on the interpretation, their number may vary
Positions in general were introduced into the game for a simpler understanding of the principles of the game
There is a center, the tallest player, there is a physically developed forward who goes to push under the basket and is just a small-sized center, there is a more mobile forward who can play with the ball, a point guard and a second guard. And this was enough when basketball was two-point and everyone was on an equal footing with similar opportunities
But immediately after the sides adapted the three-point shot, all this lost any meaning, and the skill package came to the fore

[exstatic]

Victor can't play like a KD and show star efficiency, because he is slower and has a worse dribbling
And that's not to mention his shooting ability
He'll have to play inside a lot
In general, this whole topic with positions is meaningless
As Mowry said more than 10 years ago, there are no positions, there are about 15 roles in basketball, depending on the interpretation, their number may vary
Positions in general were introduced into the game for a simpler understanding of the principles of the game
There is a center, the tallest player, there is a physically developed forward who goes to push under the basket and is just a small-sized center, there is a more mobile forward who can play with the ball, a point guard and a second guard. And this was enough when basketball was two-point and everyone was on an equal footing with similar opportunities
But immediately after the sides adapted the three-point shot, all this lost any meaning, and the skill package came to the fore

Nice to see your alt, DAF86.

[Obstructed_View]

that doesnt explain him coming off the bench for roger mason jr and keith bogans
Keith Bogans was a three, but I'll give you Mason. Bogans never made a lick of sense on the Spurs in any role.

[Dejounte]

spacing

Spacing is only a problem if Sochan hasn’t improved his shooting. I’m gonna bet he has tbh

[CorrectCrusader]

This website is such a bizarre mix of brain dead, predictable dimwits and arrogant, argumentative assholes that it is a shock the handful of normal humans who come here tolerate it. And that’s without even diving into the clusterfuck of the Politics forum cesspool.

Fuck man, I just wanna talk about the Spurs but some folks make it goddamn difficult without spamming the ignore feature.

There's a politics forum? Who goes to a spurs forum to talk politics with a bunch of random idiots on the internet?

[Obstructed_View]

Spacing is only a problem if Sochan hasn’t improved his shooting. I’m gonna bet he has tbh

No team has ever had a lob threat like Victor. Spacing may not end up being as big a deal if you can dribble into the space and throw it to the front of the rim when they challenge you.

[John B]

Victor can't play like a KD and show star efficiency, because he is slower and has a worse dribbling
And that's not to mention his shooting ability
He'll have to play inside a lot
In general, this whole topic with positions is meaningless
As Mowry said more than 10 years ago, there are no positions, there are about 15 roles in basketball, depending on the interpretation, their number may vary
Positions in general were introduced into the game for a simpler understanding of the principles of the game
There is a center, the tallest player, there is a physically developed forward who goes to push under the basket and is just a small-sized center, there is a more mobile forward who can play with the ball, a point guard and a second guard. And this was enough when basketball was two-point and everyone was on an equal footing with similar opportunities
But immediately after the sides adapted the three-point shot, all this lost any meaning, and the skill package came to the fore


Agree on the positionless as it comes to plays. Above is just what I think should be the general “positions” of the other starting line-up and why, plus Keldon the rational of Keldon coming off the bench. Again I have no 5 rings like Pop, so I trust what he’ll decide to maximize the potential of his players.

[TD 21]

I see so many people on here stuck with the archaic idea NEEDING a labeled PG or traditional PG.

The game has changed.

I think the Spurs are aware of this as well ( this is why they didn’t address adding a traditional PG.

Im ALL IN behind Sochan playing “ PG”, and it’s not necessarily wanting him to pound the air out of the basketball ball initiation offense majority of possessions.

That simply does not exist anymore in todays NBA with how the ball moves combined with the level of talent across every position. Not even Tre was THAT in the half court last year. He played mostly off the ball in the half court. He only averaged 1 more PnR opportunity a game than Keldon last season. The Spurs had a more collective approach.

At the end of the day, the best players will garner most opportunities or possessions to make plays by nature and common sense.

The reason behind why I prefer Sochan playing at the “PG” position is to unlock tremendous matchup edges on the perimeter on both ends of the floor

Of course, but you still need a primary initiator and Sochan isn't it. He's a connector a la Aaron Gordon. Any team with a pulse would press and trap the Spurs full court and duck multiple body lengths under him in p-n-r's.

Not only is he not a pull-up threat, but he's not explosive enough and doesn't possess a tight enough handle to beat them to the other side and get deep enough into the paint to draw help anyway.

They didn't address it because there's no urgency to yet.

Actually, the NBA is more heliocentric than ever.

He'd also likely struggle to negotiate picks and stay in front of jitterbug guards defensively.


Spacing is only a problem if Sochan hasn’t improved his shooting. I’m gonna bet he has tbh

Highly unlikely he has in marked fashion and even if he did, any configuration of the top 6-7 players is going to have difficulty spacing the floor.


No team has ever had a lob threat like Victor. Spacing may not end up being as big a deal if you can dribble into the space and throw it to the front of the rim when they challenge you.

Spacing is what opens up the lob.

[heyheymymy]

Going to disprove this myth through multiple posts.


https://youtu.be/L_-dPiN9X9k

i only went through a quarter of this video (first 12 minutes of this 50 min video) because I was trying to hurry, but here are the times Sochan wasn’t playing PF:

0:30 - Jalen Smith on Keldon, Tyrese on Sochan
3:52 - Aldama on Keldon, Dillon Brooks on Sochan
5:16 - Draymond on Keldon, Wiggins on Sochan
6:52 - Metu on KBD, Huerter on Sochan
7:23 - Marcus Morris on KBD, Reggie Jackson on Sochan
11:47 - Jabari Smith on KBD, Jalen Green on Sochan
12:21 - Jabari Smith on KBD, KPJ on Sochan

I’ll either find a different video or go through the rest of it later

It is tough dissecting highlight videos like this because a lot of the plays are fast breaks which clearly isnt representative of matchups. I didnt include those in my list obviously

Nice research and I appreciate the timestamps. I can see what you're saying and it's kinda compelling. Plus I agree with you that if Sochan is working on his three this offseason, which you'd think that would be a priority anyway, then it's a game changer and opens up the SF option more fully. And I'd say that his shot improved through the entire season last year.

To be fair I did say "Sochan seems best suited for PF although I do believe he can play SF, especially situationally.

But in most cases last year, Sochan seemed like a PF"

Because I did remember times last season where Sochan seemed to be playing non-PF roles, including SF. Hell correct me if I'm wrong but I recall straight up playing Sochan at PG, so they were def trying different things at times.

Can't really tell in your video if some of those aren't defensive lapses or weird mismatch situations. I don't exactly recall that specific GSW game last season but while Wiggins is on Sochan, you've also got Curry sealing the baseline closest to KBD in the corner, plus Spurs lineup looks like

Vasell
Johnson
Sochan?
KBD
Poeltl

So not sure what is going on there, was there some foul trouble or players not available for that game or something? Can't figure that situation was ideal for either team and could've been a result of circumstance. I think some of these examples could be lapses, switches or opposing teams just trying different looks in search of an exploit or data. Victor sought out Kai Jones defensively some in that CHA game but it doesn't mean they ran him as a C. In the end, you've given me a new perspective and I'm viewing this less rigidly now. Great post.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spacing is only a problem if Sochan hasn’t improved his shooting. I’m gonna bet he has tbh

I don't think he is a consistent 35% 3-point shooter yet, although he should be shooting it better I agree. But also Wemby and Tre ain't good 3-point shooters either. You need a sniper who can shoot 3s at a high volume at that spot to offset that

[SpursFan86]

I feel like there’s this misconception that Keldon is a non-threat from deep. He obviously struggled last year, but I don’t think it’s that farfetched to say some of his struggles were the result of him being asked to shoulder far too much of the load offensively. He was clearly the #1 option and didn’t exactly have much of a supporting cast, especially considering the amount of time missed by the other halfway decent players like Vassell and Sochan.

The year before, Keldon shot 39% from 3 on 5 attempts per game (40% of his attempts). That’s really solid. It’s possible that was a fluke but I’m choosing to be an optimist and think that he’s at least a 36-37% type guy from deep which is plenty respectable.

Assuming that ends up being the case, a lineup of Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Wemby/Collins shouldn’t be bad from a spacing standpoint. And with guys like Graham/Branham (hoping his 3 point shooting this summer is legit)/McDermott we should have a decent amount of shooting off the bench too.

Don’t get me wrong: we could absolutely use more shooting on this roster. I’m just not sure it’ll be as bad as people here worry…but that’s admittedly banking on a few things going our way. If KJ really is a sub-35% guy, Victor struggles, Sochan still has no jumper, Branham struggles from 3, etc…then yeah it’ll be pretty rough :lol

[spurraider21]

I feel like there’s this misconception that Keldon is a non-threat from deep. He obviously struggled last year, but I don’t think it’s that farfetched to say some of his struggles were the result of him being asked to shoulder far too much of the load offensively. He was clearly the #1 option and didn’t exactly have much of a supporting cast, especially considering the amount of time missed by the other halfway decent players like Vassell and Sochan.

The year before, Keldon shot 39% from 3 on 5 attempts per game (40% of his attempts). That’s really solid. It’s possible that was a fluke but I’m choosing to be an optimist and think that he’s at least a 36-37% type guy from deep which is plenty respectable.

Assuming that ends up being the case, a lineup of Tre/Vassell/Keldon/Wemby/Collins shouldn’t be bad from a spacing standpoint. And with guys like Graham/Branham (hoping his 3 point shooting this summer is legit)/McDermott we should have a decent amount of shooting off the bench too.

Don’t get me wrong: we could absolutely use more shooting on this roster. I’m just not sure it’ll be as bad as people here worry…but that’s admittedly banking on a few things going our way. If KJ really is a sub-35% guy, Victor struggles, Sochan still has no jumper, Branham struggles from 3, etc…then yeah it’ll be pretty rough :lol
i dont think KJ is best served as being primarily a floor spacing shooter. the guy does have scoring ability. dont think his drive/bullyball game serves well alongside victor who at this point looks mostly like a face up scorer, or a pick and roll player. kj is not really a guy who operates the pick and roll either.

think long term he's best fit to be a bench player to punish opposing second lineups offensively while his defensive shortcomings wont be as big a deal against those players either.

for now he probably ends up starting anyway because i dont think sochan can really play the 3 at this point

[Obstructed_View]

Spacing is what opens up the lob.
Typically. A defender goes out to cover a three point shooter. Like I said, Victor may change that.

[dbestpro]

I think Sochan will start cause Pop loves to bring in offense from the bench, which he can do with Branham and Johnson as the first two subs.

[venitian navigator]

Barring some trades for more picks or for some unexpected veteran all star (or soon to be... I mean Lillard or Garland) point guard I think we're actually already more than set for next season...
Imho the only starting line up role in doubt is point guard but considering contract (one year 23 millions next one quite the same but only 2,5 guaranteed) veteran experience also as a starting point guard, the fact that looks like he's working like a mad man to be back in perfect shape and the fact that he used to be a good defensive player and 3 point shooter, I think Devon Graham should be the one.
That's hiew I see our line ups.
Starting
Graham Vassell Wemby Sochan Collins
Second unit
Jones Branham Mc D. KJ. Barlow
Third unit
Wesley Champ. Osman/Bullock Mamu/Bassey

Two way
Rice Cissoko x
Traded/waived
Birch Stevens one of the bunch that's not gonna be among the "big 15" (barring trade options as of now the more possible options are Barlow because he's still unsigned, but that Imho would be a mistake, Bullock, Mamu, Osman, Bassey, Wesley)...

[venitian navigator]

Sorry graham contract is for something like 12 millions guaranteed this year and 2,5 of 13 guaranteed next year)

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0934lGZ4dw

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHxS77dWQC0

[Obstructed_View]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHxS77dWQC0
That isn't Shaq. Who is that? Brendan Haywood was working summer league. Is that him? The little guy on the left is an idiot.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Nice to see your alt, DAF86.
I want him to shoot 7-8 3-pointers with 38-42% and play a ball handler in pick&roll, but he needs to improve those skills in the next 3 months before the start of the season and keep working on them for the next few years

[spurraider21]

1681020898009051137

[slick'81]

1681020898009051137

birch and ?

[spurraider21]

birch and ?
best bet is to flip a coin between osman and bullock. and that gets us to exactly 15.

before cissoko and barlow

[DAF86]

Keith Bogans was a three, but I'll give you Mason. Bogans never made a lick of sense on the Spurs in any role.

Stephen Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu, Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Mason Jr., Danny Green. All those guys started over Manu.

[DAF86]

Nice to see your alt, DAF86.

There are other sensible posters in this forum besides me, tbh.

[Obstructed_View]

Stephen Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu, Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Mason Jr., Danny Green. All those guys started over Manu.
Fin did. Ldn did. Jack started when Manu was a rookie. Hedo is a forward. Bones started 41 games in his time as a Spur.

[DAF86]

Fin did. Ldn did. Jack started when Manu was a rookie. Hedo is a forward. Bones started 41 games in his time as a Spur.

What's the point of this, really? Trying to mess up the argument just for the sake of not acknowledging you were wrong? Everybody and their mothers know Manu started the 2004 season in the lineup but Pop put Hedo over Manu because the Turk sucked off the bench. Pop literally benched Manu for Hedo but here you are trying to save face on a technichality. :lol

Fine, if Hedo is a forward, then Bowen started over Manu, that would still make you wrong.

[duncan2150]

1681020898009051137

Without counting barlow and sidy so maybe three if barlow gets another two way

still some trade to come

[spurraider21]

Without counting barlow and sidy so maybe three if barlow gets another two way

still some trade to come
think one of the better trade partners could be miami if a lillard trade happens. as it stands they only have 13 guys on the roster, and they're going to have to send out multiple players in that deal to make it work. they probably would like a trade where they receive a couple of playable vet role players. some combination of mcdermott/bullock/graham/osman/payne

i dont think the spurs would move mcdermott just for the sake of consolidating, and i doubt miami will be in a position to offer trade compensation for him, so he's less likely to be in there.

think something like Lowry for Bullock/Osman/Payne works, for instance, if the spurs want to go that route. im sure the spurs would love to dump birch but i really dont see anybody opting to take that on, especially a tax team like miami


otherwise i like the idea that somebody else floated where we send some spare parts for Lonzo and a pick, but that requires taking on salary for the 24-25 season as well

[exstatic]

What's the point of this, really? Trying to mess up the argument just for the sake of not acknowledging you were wrong? Everybody and their mothers know Manu started the 2004 season in the lineup but Pop put Hedo over Manu because the Turk sucked off the bench. Pop literally benched Manu for Hedo but here you are trying to save face on a technichality. :lol

Fine, if Hedo is a forward, then Bowen started over Manu, that would still make you wrong.

Hedo's bigger, and that makes him a forward. See how that works?

[exstatic]

think one of the better trade partners could be miami if a lillard trade happens. as it stands they only have 13 guys on the roster, and they're going to have to send out multiple players in that deal to make it work. they probably would like a trade where they receive a couple of playable vet role players. some combination of mcdermott/bullock/graham/osman/payne

i dont think the spurs would move mcdermott just for the sake of consolidating, and i doubt miami will be in a position to offer trade compensation for him, so he's less likely to be in there.

think something like Lowry for Bullock/Osman/Payne works, for instance, if the spurs want to go that route. im sure the spurs would love to dump birch but i really dont see anybody opting to take that on, especially a tax team like miami


otherwise i like the idea that somebody else floated where we send some spare parts for Lonzo and a pick, but that requires taking on salary for the 24-25 season as well

Bullock/Osman/Payne/Birch works. Their roster was decimated by free agency and the expected trade, so by providing them with a de facto bench of decent players, they can eat Birch's contract instead of us, and we get to sign Sidy and give Barlow an NBA deal instead of a 2way.

[DAF86]

Hedo's bigger, and that makes him a forward. See how that works?

Why are you so hell bent on looking like a moron? :lol

[spurraider21]

Bullock/Osman/Payne/Birch works. Their roster was decimated by free agency and the expected trade, so by providing them with a de facto bench of decent players, they can eat Birch's contract instead of us, and we get to sign Sidy and giving Barlow an NBA deal instead of a 2way.
yeah if we can dump 4 for 1 thats obviously great. though i think its more likely nobody takes birch and we end up waiving him and strike a 3 for 1 deal instead. if anything happens at all, of course

i also wonder if the spurs might just waive a few people and hope to trade some of these guys individually at the deadline for an SRP or something... but the roster numbers make that pretty farfetched

the thing is, i think lowry can still help the team, even if he's not what he used to be. the travesty would be just outright waiving some of the guys like osman/payne. getting the picks for taking them on is good enough, but its still leaving some meat on the bone

[exstatic]

Why are you so hell bent on looking like a moron? :lol

Just showing you what your Wemby posturing looks like. Moron is a pretty good description.

[jesterbobman]

A Lowry for pieces / depth trade makes a lot of sense if the Heat get Dame.

They'd probably be sending out Herro and Robinson + picks and probably Jovic to Portland, and they've already lost depth in Strus and Vincent.
There's the straight Lowry for Bullock / Osman / Graham type functions, or a similar deal with the Spurs getting Herro and the expiring money going to Portland along with draft capital (if the cost isn't too high - Salary ballast and the Charlotte pick / some seconds would be fine with me), or adding in a Robinson / McDermott swap if the Blazers don't want long term money.

They definitely seem like the most natural other side of a 3 for 1 trade.

[exstatic]

yeah if we can dump 4 for 1 thats obviously great

i also wonder if the spurs might just waive a few people and hope to trade some of these guys individually at the deadline for an SRP or something... but the roster numbers make that pretty farfetched

the thing is, i think lowry can still help the team, even if he's not what he used to be.

[and maybe they can flip him at the deadline to a contender]

[DAF86]

Just showing you what your Wemby posturing looks like. Moron is a pretty good description.

But my point was never that Wemby is a center because of his height. Durant is a 7 footer and he isn't a center in my eyes. Wemby is a center because of his playing style. The sooner you realize this very easy fact to see, the sooner we can get over this retarded argument that will be laughable in a couple of years when we look back at it.

[TD 21]

A Lowry for pieces / depth trade makes a lot of sense if the Heat get Dame.

They'd probably be sending out Herro and Robinson + picks and probably Jovic to Portland, and they've already lost depth in Strus and Vincent.
There's the straight Lowry for Bullock / Osman / Graham type functions, or a similar deal with the Spurs getting Herro and the expiring money going to Portland along with draft capital (if the cost isn't too high - Salary ballast and the Charlotte pick / some seconds would be fine with me), or adding in a Robinson / McDermott swap if the Blazers don't want long term money.

They definitely seem like the most natural other side of a 3 for 1 trade.

A 2 for 1 for Fournier is another. With Champagnie looking more and more legit, McDermott could become more expendable, along with one of the recently acquired veterans for a 2nd with a decent projection.

[spurraider21]

A 2 for 1 for Fournier is another. With Champagnie looking more and more legit, McDermott could become more expendable, along with one of the recently acquired veterans for a 2nd with a decent projection.
mcdermott probably has some standalone value though, as a plug and play contributor/specialist on a decent sized expiring deal. dont think the spurs would just want to lump him into a consolidation deal unless they are getting solid trade comp

[Obstructed_View]

What's the point of this, really? Trying to mess up the argument just for the sake of not acknowledging you were wrong? Everybody and their mothers know Manu started the 2004 season in the lineup but Pop put Hedo over Manu because the Turk sucked off the bench. Pop literally benched Manu for Hedo but here you are trying to save face on a technichality. :lol

Fine, if Hedo is a forward, then Bowen started over Manu, that would still make you wrong.
Wait, I said that the reason Manu came off the bench is only because Michael Finley sucked unless he was starting. You say that is the same reason Hedo started over him and you think I'm the one who was wrong because I didn't remember that? Okay.

[jesterbobman]

A 2 for 1 for Fournier is another. With Champagnie looking more and more legit, McDermott could become more expendable, along with one of the recently acquired veterans for a 2nd with a decent projection.

Yeah McDermott for Fournier and Detroit seconds (We have a lot, but those should be at 40ish), or one of the shitty firsts from the Dieng trade that OKC made with NY would be fine. I imagine NY is waiting on Harden, seeing if Philly goes to a rebuild and then see if they can direct all of their ammo towards an Embiid trade.

[DAF86]

Wait, I said that the reason Manu came off the bench is only because Michael Finley sucked unless he was starting. You say that is the same reason Hedo started over him and you think I'm the one who was wrong because I didn't remember that? Okay.

Yeah, because Manu came off the bench every year, no matter who was starting at SG. Obviously not because they were better, but because Pop liked the strategy of having Manu come off the bench.

[TD 21]

Yeah McDermott for Fournier and Detroit seconds (We have a lot, but those should be at 40ish), or one of the shitty firsts from the Dieng trade that OKC made with NY would be fine. I imagine NY is waiting on Harden, seeing if Philly goes to a rebuild and then see if they can direct all of their ammo towards an Embiid trade.

No way the 76ers go into a re-build, Harden or not. Expect them to retain him since there's no viable trade to be made and they have all the leverage because in order for him to get one last big long term contract, he has to be on his best behavior.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, because Manu came off the bench every year, no matter who was starting at SG. Obviously not because they were better, but because Pop liked the strategy of having Manu come off the bench.
Except for when he started.

[Fireball]

Sochan is starting. Guaranteed.

[DAF86]

Except for when he started.

In only 2 seasons out of a 16 years NBA career did Manu start more games than he came off the bench. And in thosw 2 years, he still had games coming off the bench. He literally came off the bench in every single season he played.

[stnick2261]

Wait, I said that the reason Manu came off the bench is only because Michael Finley sucked unless he was starting. You say that is the same reason Hedo started over him and you think I'm the one who was wrong because I didn't remember that? Okay.


Yeah, because Manu came off the bench every year, no matter who was starting at SG. Obviously not because they were better, but because Pop liked the strategy of having Manu come off the bench.

Manu was a starter until Michael Finley. And yes, Finley sucked unless he was starting and that's why Manu came off the bench. However, it was such a success that Pop kept it that way no matter who else joined the team and Manu was the first one off the bench with fresh legs and already scouting the competition.

[DAF86]

Manu was a starter until Michael Finley. And yes, Finley sucked unless he was starting and that's why Manu came off the bench. However, it was such a success that Pop kept it that way no matter who else joined the team and Manu was the first one off the bench with fresh legs and already scouting the competition.

Manu came off the bench with Jackson and Turkoglu way before Finley got to the Spurs.

[Dejounte]

Manu was also leagues better than Sochan on offense, there’s literally no benefit to having Sochan come off the bench. The whole reason Manu did was because of his ability on offense and his will to give it his all. They’re completely different players and what they bring is so different.

[Chinook]

Combo-guard is one of the archetypes for sixth man. Energy swing big is another. Diaw and Odom are examples Sochan might follow.

I don't think it's completely unlikely that Johnson, Sochan and Wemby are the starting front court, actually. But I do think it's between Collins and Sochan. Johnson might well be a better bench player. But I don't know that Sochan and Jones starting with Collins is good for the offense.

[Obstructed_View]

In only 2 seasons out of a 16 years NBA career did Manu start more games than he came off the bench. And in thosw 2 years, he still had games coming off the bench. He literally came off the bench in every single season he played.
You know what? I don't even remember what we were arguing about and we probably are just shouting past each other at this point. I concede the argument. Let's hope the Spurs have players as great and versatile as Manu, who are professional enough to show up no matter the situation.

[ismael-robert]

https://tenor.com/Q2ax.gif

[mudyez]

Imo the most interesting question question beside who will start is what happens between McDermott and Branham. Will the former just be a trade chip like some of our later aquisitions. Is the later just a prospect or will he get major minutes? When will the transition happen? Right from the start, during the season or next offseason?

[CorrectCrusader]

You know what? I don't even remember what we were arguing about and we probably are just shouting past each other at this point. I concede the argument. Let's hope the Spurs have players as great and versatile as Manu, who are professional enough to show up no matter the situation.

I don't think I've ever seen behavior like this on a webforum :flag:

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think I've ever seen behavior like this on a webforum :flag:
We used to get into nasty brawls back in the day.

A. I'm too old.

B. Life's too short.

C. I honestly lost track of the argument.

[Obstructed_View]

Imo the most interesting question question beside who will start is what happens between McDermott and Branham. Will the former just be a trade chip like some of our later aquisitions. Is the later just a prospect or will he get major minutes? When will the transition happen? Right from the start, during the season or next offseason?
I was 100 percent ready for Mcbuckets to go. He was nothing but an expiring contract to me...until the Spurs got Victor.

I'm beyond intrigued at the idea of Doug scoring 20 points and Victor getting six assists in two minutes.

[scott]

I was 100 percent ready for Mcbuckets to go. He was nothing but an expiring contract to me...until the Spurs got Victor.

I'm beyond intrigued at the idea of Doug scoring 20 points and Victor getting six assists in two minutes.

There is a case to be made for Doug getting heavier than expected minutes to start the year to build up his trade value ahead of the deadline. Doug on a career year would have some real value. Unfortunately, no one has any picks to trade anymore.

[spurs10]

I was 100 percent ready for Mcbuckets to go. He was nothing but an expiring contract to me...until the Spurs got Victor.

I'm beyond intrigued at the idea of Doug scoring 20 points and Victor getting six assists in two minutes. Ditto on this.

[wildbill2u]

How much value should we put on the four year contract for Champagnie as an indicator of his place in the rotation at SF. Seems to me that the coaches are high on his value and want to cement his career as a Spur for a good long while. Or does he have a chance to be a backup at SG? I've been quite impressed by his hustle as well as his skill set at 6'8" and think he will get some minutes away from somebody previously on the team.

[scott]

How much value should we put on the four year contract for Champagnie as an indicator of his place in the rotation at SF. Seems to me that the coaches are high on his value and want to cement his career as a Spur for a good long while. Or does he have a chance to be a backup at SG? I've been quite impressed by his hustle as well as his skill set at 6'8" and think he will get some minutes away from somebody previously on the team.

Much like Bassey's contract, it isn't fully guaranteed so the team can pull the plug without much dead money. But I would tend to think (for both of these guys) it signals that the team sees promise in them and wants to lock them up on the cheap for a few years. I think they both see solid rotation minutes this year, I think the biggest threat to their security on the roster will come from the glut of upcoming picks we have. They could both be easily supplanted by a promising prospect at their position.

[C-Dub]

Sochan may be in line for a 6th man role this coming season. He may not start the game but he will average more minutes per game than Tre Jones and will be out there with the starters minus Tre to finish games. I don't see him having a problem with this move since he already took on this role in college even though he was Baylor's best player.

[BackHome]

Pop is going to go back into his mad Scientist role and putting players in different positions and pairing them up with different players to see what works and what doesn’t work with Wemby. After he has done that he will probably do the same thing with the second unit.

[exstatic]

Sochan may be in line for a 6th man role this coming season. He may not start the game but he will average more minutes per game than Tre Jones and will be out there with the starters minus Tre to finish games. I don't see him having a problem with this move since he already took on this role in college even though he was Baylor's best player.

It’s not too bright to let their top scorer get comfortable and in a groove while Sochan waits to come off the bench.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I could see Sochan and Collins both starting. Put the enforcers on the floor next to Wemby. Wemby can be the tallest small forward in history.

[MaNu4Tres]

I see so many people on here stuck with the archaic idea NEEDING a labeled PG or traditional PG.

The game has changed.

I think the Spurs are aware of this as well ( this is why they didn’t address adding a traditional PG.

Im ALL IN behind Sochan playing “ PG”, and it’s not necessarily wanting him to pound the air out of the basketball ball initiation offense majority of possessions.

That simply does not exist anymore in todays NBA with how the ball moves combined with the level of talent across every position. Not even Tre was THAT in the half court last year. He played mostly off the ball in the half court. He only averaged 1 more PnR opportunity a game than Keldon last season. The Spurs had a more collective approach.

At the end of the day, the best players will garner most opportunities or possessions to make plays by nature and common sense.

The reason behind why I prefer Sochan playing at the “PG” position is to unlock tremendous matchup edges on the perimeter on both ends of the floor — where targeting will not exist for opposing teams. Defensive versatility will be at its optimal capacity where you can go to any coverage and have an edge. The length will narrow passing & penetration lanes — which can maximize deflections/rebound/stops— which maximizes fast breaks/semi transition/easy opportunities.

Offensively, the Spurs will have a size/length advantage at nearly every opportunity or wrinkle in a ball movement heavy style of offense in primary or secondary opportunities from all 3 levels — and all but 1 player is capable to manufacture offense from the perimeter.

Quality versatility & length with universal ball skills will be the new NBA & the Spurs will now have a personnel edge most teams do not have. They would be foolish not to exploit this unique edge.

The floor general concept being narrowed into the labeled "PG" position box is overstated in the modern game as ball skills are becoming universal across all positions.

Spurs are going to have a "center" (Wemby) and "power forward" (Sochan) that will be able to manufacture offense and be an initiator on the perimeter. That is an example of how ball skills have evolved.

Zach - Wemby - KJ- Dev - Sochan can play together and the latter 4 can share responsibilities & playmaking duties. A collective attack.


Has anyone kept up with what the players, Brian Wright, and Pop have said in recent interviews?

Pretty sure this is it fwiw.

Hope everyone is doing well here.