Shams: Spurs Trade for Phoenix G Cam Payne

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Thanks for clarification but that's quite complicated. lol Shows what the market now of SRPs esp. after the Spurs started doing it with the Mavs.

The deals are similar but the scale is completely different.

Spurs traded 3 decent SRPs - 2024 better of Pelicans/Bulls, 2025 Toronto and 2028 Miami for the chance to get an unprotected FRP swap in 2030. They may also recoup some value from Bullock if they re-route him.

Orlando bet 3 very bad SRPs - 2024 Denver, 2026 worst of own/Detroit/Milwaukee and 2028 Boston that is protected 31-45. They're betting that in 2026 they'll be better than both Washington and Phoenix, as Washington have the rights to swap with Phoenix first. So the possible gain for Orlando isn't nearly as big as what the Spurs got and it'll amount to nothing if they're not better than both other teams by then.

[exstatic]

No. The first swap, with Washington, gives Phoenix the lesser of the two picks as payment for Beal. Then Phoenix sold swap rights to Orlando on the pick they get (the lesser of the 2 between Phoenix and Washington), so that Orlando gets the better between that one and their own. So Phoenix is guaranteed to get THE LESSER OF THE 3. Washington or Orlando may get the better or the one in the middle, depending on where they end up, they're just guaranteed to not get the worst of the 3. For instance, say this is the order before and after swaps take place:
1) Before: WAS, ORL, PHO - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (neither swap)
2) Before: ORL, WAS, PHO - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (neither swap)
3) Before: WAS, PHO, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only ORL swaps)
4) Before: ORL, PHO, WAS - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (only WAS swaps)
5) Before: PHO, ORL, WAS - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only WAS swaps)
6) Before: PHO, WAS, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (both swap)
Suppose every prior scenario is equally likely (unrealistic, but indulge me for the purpose of clarity):
Washington ends up with the better pick 2/3 of the time and the middle one 1/3 or the time
Orlando ends up with the better pick 1/3 of the time and the middle one 2/3 or the time
Phoenix always ends up with the worst pick.

The times Orlando ends up with the best pick, they don’t swap, so it a useless asset. I excluded those, because they make my argument: that a secondary swap isn’t nearly as valuable as a primary swap like we got from Dallas. When ORL swaps,in this scenario, they can never get the best pick of the three.

[Ariel]

The times Orlando ends up with the best pick, they don’t swap, so it a useless asset. I excluded those, because they make my argument: that a secondary swap isn’t nearly as valuable as a primary swap like we got from Dallas. When ORL swaps,in this scenario, they can never get the best pick of the three.
They don't hold the rights to swap first, which is clearly stated when I said they hold rights to THE LESSER of those picks, but I didn't claim otherwise so...
my response was in relation to this:

They didn’t swap a pick with Orlando, they swapped a swap. Of the three picks, WSH,PHO, or their own, they get the middle pick.
which is incorrect, as stated. But if you meant to reinforce what I was saying, ok then.

[exstatic]

They don't hold the rights to swap first, which is clearly stated when I said they hold rights to THE LESSER of those picks, but I didn't claim otherwise so...
my response was in relation to this:

which is incorrect, as stated. But if you meant to reinforce what I was saying, ok then.

I wasn’t clear in that statement, and I apologize for that. BEST CASE is they get the middle pick, if they use the swap. Agreed?

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1681286742333329408

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1681286742333329408

I think the Spurs already owe Boston their SRP in 2024 top 55 protected.

[DPG21920]

1681284934416338946

Spurs got almost enough cash to cover all of Cams deal too.

[DPG21920]

I think the Spurs already owe Boston their SRP in 2024 top 55 protected.

Correct.

“San Antonio's 2024 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-54 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then San Antonio's obligation to Boston will be extinguished)”

[exstatic]

Correct.

“San Antonio's 2024 2nd round pick to Boston protected for selections 31-54 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then San Antonio's obligation to Boston will be extinguished)”

They've changed the protections on the pick as part of the Cam Payne trade so as not to have to use another pick.

31-49 SA
50-54 PHO
55-60 BOS

Still almost certainly will not convey to either team. It takes a while for the sites tracking picks to catch up, especially since the trade/FA season isn't over. LOVE the cash payout, too. $5.7M almost covers Cam's salary.

[DPG21920]

Yup. Was just saying that was original pick owed to bos and they did what they did to be able to trade same pick

[Mr. Body]

The Phoenix cash makes it palatable to just waive Payne if they have to. Still have to think they have something floating around like a Kyle Lowry trade but it could still fall through.

[Mr. Body]

Yup. Was just saying that was original pick owed to bos and they did what they did to be able to trade same pick

Smart that it's next year, when they won't be a top 10 team in the league.

[DPG21920]

Smart that it's next year, when they won't be a top 10 team in the league.

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

[BacktoBasics]

To put it in perspective, off the top Poole got $125M (1 year younger) and Herro (2 years younger) got $120M last off season. Both are defensive liabilities who have never scored on league average efficiency.

He was in his 2nd season and rose to prominence as it wore on. I'll do you a favor and save your money for you.

The only reason he didn't get $98M is because other teams knew it'd be a waste of time.
I'm not arguing against this point. Your examples aren't a game changer for me. Poole is grossly overpaid and they couldn't get off him fast enough. Herro is overpaid as well, for all the reasons you listed.

[Mr. Body]

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

Do we know yet what SRP the Suns gave us? I might have missed it.

[exstatic]

These trades are all upside. It’s crazy. Getting players that many teams would be happy to have for free let alone getting picks. Getting most of their salary covered so ownership isn’t paying much. Possibly being able to trade them for more capital or aggregate in bigger deal.

Really every aspect is good - even keeping them as players

The second apron is moving into view for some teams, and they're acting, adding cash and/or picks to get off salary while they can. That option goes away like 2 days after next regular season ends.

[DPG21920]

Do we know yet what SRP the Suns gave us? I might have missed it.

Pelicans 2025

[exstatic]

Pelicans 2025

With Zion's health, that could be in the top half of the second.

[RC_Drunkford]

like I said Brian Wright is flipping assets like he's in a trap house. Love to see it. We basically only gave up 1 second rounder for an unprotected first round swap via Dallas, Osman, Bullock and Payne and got almost Payne's entire salary in cash back. Great moves.

[mo7888]

I'm not arguing against this point. Your examples aren't a game changer for me. Poole is grossly overpaid and they couldn't get off him fast enough. Herro is overpaid as well, for all the reasons you listed.

I dont believe Herro is overpaid at all. Even with his contract he can be moved for a first. That's not an indication of being overpaid....

[CGD]

1681284934416338946

Spurs got almost enough cash to cover all of Cams deal too.

Cam definitely getting cut now. For me it always turned on how much the cash was. Basically the Spurs bought a decent SRP for little over a million.

[Chinook]

Cam definitely getting cut now. For me it always turned on how much the cash was. Basically the Spurs bought a decent SRP for little over a million.

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

[CGD]

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

I hear that. This current roster crunch makes it hard to see otherwise, though, unless they cut a deal to set him elsewhere before they have to hit 15. It was already so, and then add the fuzziness around the Sisoko buy out situation.

[spurraider21]

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.
damn so they got 3 FRPs in exchange for hanging onto kurt thomas for half a season lol

those 3 picks to seattle/okc wound up being Ibaka, Pondexter, and Beaubois

[Chinook]

I hear that. This current roster crunch makes it hard to see otherwise, though, unless they cut a deal to set him elsewhere before they have to hit 15. It was already so, and then add the fuzziness around the Sisoko buy out situation.

I think Payne is the guard most likely to be cut.

In fact this is how I'd rank the players from most likely to be cut to least:

Birch
Bullock
Osman
Payne
Rice (two-way)
Mamukelashvili
Graham
Wesley
Bassey
Cissoko (if Bruno is right)
Barlow (if re-signed)
McDermott
Collins
Champagnie
Jones
Branham
Vassell
Johnson
Sochan
Wembanyama

If we were also talking about trades (including consolidation trades and trades for value), the list would look a bit different.

[spurraider21]

I think Payne is the guard most likely to be cut.

In fact this is how I'd rank the players from most likely to be cut to least:

Birch
Bullock
Osman
Payne
Rice (two-way)
Mamukelashvili
Graham
Wesley
Bassey
Cissoko (if Bruno is right)
Barlow (if re-signed)
McDermott
Collins
Champagnie
Jones
Branham
Vassell
Johnson
Sochan
Wembanyama

If we were also talking about trades (including consolidation trades and trades for value), the list would look a bit different.
thats probably about right. maybe payne a tad higher on the list, but who knows.

ultimately might not matter barring a trade. if barlow/cissoko get real roster spots, all of those guys (payne/osman/bullock/birch) would have to be waived anyway to cut us down to 15.

still not sure what's going on with barlow. the QO they've given him is for a 2-way deal. there doesnt seem to be any chatter of other teams approaching him for an offer sheet. my guess is he's trying to negotiate for an nba deal, and the spurs basically want to bend him over and lock him up cheap for 1-2 more years than he's willing, and that's the impasse they're currently at.

[cd98]

Don't the Spurs need Pay's contact to meet the salary cap floor? And why not keep the contract to facilitate a trade for assets if the opportunity arises down the road? I'd also say Payne is every bit as good as Jones so I don't see him doing anything other than competing for a roster spot.

[Chinook]

thats probably about right. maybe payne a tad higher on the list, but who knows.

ultimately might not matter barring a trade. if barlow/cissoko get real roster spots, all of those guys (payne/osman/bullock/birch) would have to be waived anyway to cut us down to 15.

still not sure what's going on with barlow. the QO they've given him is for a 2-way deal. there doesnt seem to be any chatter of other teams approaching him for an offer sheet. my guess is he's trying to negotiate for an nba deal, and the spurs basically want to bend him over and lock him up cheap for 1-2 more years than he's willing, and that's the impasse they're currently at.

As Bruno mentioned, I think both Cissoko and Barlow are looking at contracts that will require cap space to sign. That means the Spurs probably do have a clock on them. I think SA is perfectly willing to have Barlow come back on a two-way deal though. I don't think most teams want to waste time negotiating for the Spurs, who would probably be okay matching any contract that another team would realistically offer. Complicating matters more is that offer sheets have to be for three or four years, and that means teams can't just offer a min deal. They'd need their own cap space or MLE to make the offer, and teams aren't willing to do that just for the Spurs to match.

[Mr. Body]

Supposedly New York, Phoenix, and Indiana were working on a deal that would have moved TJ McConnell to the Suns and the Knicks would have received Cam Payne in return. Not sure why the deal fell apart, perhaps because Phoenix wanted to shed salary instead to get the tax savings. It might suggest lingering Knick interest in Payne, however, and I believe they can absorb him into an existing trade exception.

Evan Fournier is still an option for a consolidation-of-expirings trade. He was out of Thibodeaux' rotation this last year. They might be okay with breaking his large-ish salary into pieces.

[exstatic]

You'd think that. But then I remember Kurt Thomas and how the Suns gave up two firsts to send his contract to Seattle before the Sonics got a third from SA to send him to the Spurs.

Ah, the good old days when FRPs flowed like honey from the comb.

[TD 21]

I'm not arguing against this point. Your examples aren't a game changer for me. Poole is grossly overpaid and they couldn't get off him fast enough. Herro is overpaid as well, for all the reasons you listed.

They're clearly credible comps and the Warriors moved on Poole quickly because of their historic tax bill/poor chemistry.

Even if closer to net negatives than not, the difference is likely to be negligible as the cap continues to rise an estimated 10% year over year during the life of their contracts.

[duncan2150]

I think Payne is the guard most likely to be cut.

In fact this is how I'd rank the players from most likely to be cut to least:

Birch
Bullock
Osman
Payne
Rice (two-way)
Mamukelashvili
Graham
Wesley
Bassey
Cissoko (if Bruno is right)
Barlow (if re-signed)
McDermott
Collins
Champagnie
Jones
Branham
Vassell
Johnson
Sochan
Wembanyama

If we were also talking about trades (including consolidation trades and trades for value), the list would look a bit different.

Good list, i would just invert graham and payne, bullock and osman.

I have a hard time understand why people value graham ( not you) over payne, really good 3pts shooter but that's it imo.

[BacktoBasics]

Good list, i would just invert graham and payne, bullock and osman.

I have a hard time understand why people value graham ( not you) over payne, really good 3pts shooter but that's it imo.
I think they value Graham like that because volume 3pt shooters aren’t a bad thing to have deep on the bench of a championship run. Usually these guys are good for at least one game if not a series.

[CGD]

Good list, i would just invert graham and payne, bullock and osman.

I have a hard time understand why people value graham ( not you) over payne, really good 3pts shooter but that's it imo.

It’s double the cost to waive Graham over Payne.

[CGD]

Supposedly New York, Phoenix, and Indiana were working on a deal that would have moved TJ McConnell to the Suns and the Knicks would have received Cam Payne in return. Not sure why the deal fell apart, perhaps because Phoenix wanted to shed salary instead to get the tax savings. It might suggest lingering Knick interest in Payne, however, and I believe they can absorb him into an existing trade exception.

Evan Fournier is still an option for a consolidation-of-expirings trade. He was out of Thibodeaux' rotation this last year. They might be okay with breaking his large-ish salary into pieces.

That’s interesting, especially if they have a trade exception to fit him in. Will happy take another SRP lol.

[spurraider21]

It’s double the cost to waive Graham over Payne.
doesnt really cost more or less. either way, no matter how we slice it, graham and payne are going to make 18.5 mil and count as that much against the cap

whether we waive one, waive the other, or waive both, those numbers are basically static (unless they agree to buyouts to varying degrees)

[rascal]

I don't expect any more player acquisitions. This is it. I expected a veteran PG addition and now that has happened, that is it.

Just have to trim the roster down now.

After Wemby very minor additions and really no big difference making upgrades to the roster.

[Chinook]

doesnt really cost more or less. either way, no matter how we slice it, graham and payne are going to make 18.5 mil and count as that much against the cap

whether we waive one, waive the other, or waive both, those numbers are basically static (unless they agree to buyouts to varying degrees)

It's true but not true. Graham being waived locks in his guarantee next year. If they don't waive him they can still trade him later. Payne being waived now or in February, on the other hand, wouldn't make a difference.

[Dex]

Third Two-Way spot doesn't open up until next year with the CBA, yes?

[Chinook]

Third Two-Way spot doesn't open up until next year with the CBA, yes?

The new CBA kicked in this year. Some of the measures are being eased in -- particularly the financial ones. But most kicked in on July 1

[Dex]

The new CBA kicked in this year. Some of the measures are being eased in -- particularly the financial ones. But most kicked in on July 1

Ah gotcha, thanks :tu

[Gagnrath]

I keep saying the trade hiding in plain sight is for Lonzo Ball + a CHI FRP.
Dump 3 of our expirings there (including Graham) and eat ~18M next year.
Likely the Spurs get the disabled player exception too.

The Spurs brand is not the Big Ballah brand so no spurs named ball.

[exstatic]

I keep saying the trade hiding in plain sight is for Lonzo Ball + a CHI FRP.
Dump 3 of our expirings there (including Graham) and eat ~18M next year.
Likely the Spurs get the disabled player exception too.

The whisper grapevine is that he's never going to play again, AND he's got a hefty player option ($21M+) for 24-25 that he will most certainly exercise, so no.

[spurraider21]

The whisper grapevine is that he's never going to play again, AND he's got a hefty player option ($21M+) for 24-25 that he will most certainly exercise, so no.
i think thats factored into the deal. we arent generally seeing FRPs traded anymore for 1 year salary relief

[exstatic]

i think thats factored into the deal. we arent generally seeing FRPs traded anymore for 1 year salary relief

We have enough draft picks to not need one more to take on $40M in dead salary.

[spurraider21]

We have enough draft picks to not need one more to take on $40M in dead salary.
we're gonna have plenty of dead salary this year one way or another because we have to waive enough guys to trim down to 15. if we can unload some of those to chicago and consolidate, it makes sense for this year. like... if we were going to waive birch + bullock, thats already nearly 20 mil. no skin off our backs to replace that with lonzo

we'd be eating 20 mil next year as an expiring in exchange for the pick, really. but could then also immediately apply for the DPE

[Ice009]

Why would the Spurs trade for Lonzo if he has 3 years left on his contract? How does the DPE work?


No. The first swap, with Washington, gives Phoenix the lesser of the two picks as payment for Beal. Then Phoenix sold swap rights to Orlando on the pick they get (the lesser of the 2 between Phoenix and Washington), so that Orlando gets the better between that one and their own. So Phoenix is guaranteed to get THE LESSER OF THE 3. Washington or Orlando may get the better or the one in the middle, depending on where they end up, they're just guaranteed to not get the worst of the 3. For instance, say this is the order before and after swaps take place:
1) Before: WAS, ORL, PHO - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (neither swap)
2) Before: ORL, WAS, PHO - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (neither swap)
3) Before: WAS, PHO, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only ORL swaps)
4) Before: ORL, PHO, WAS - After: ORL, WAS, PHO (only WAS swaps)
5) Before: PHO, ORL, WAS - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (only WAS swaps)
6) Before: PHO, WAS, ORL - After: WAS, ORL, PHO (both swap)
Suppose every prior scenario is equally likely (unrealistic, but indulge me for the purpose of clarity):
Washington ends up with the better pick 2/3 of the time and the middle one 1/3 or the time
Orlando ends up with the better pick 1/3 of the time and the middle one 2/3 or the time
Phoenix always ends up with the worst pick.

This seems complicated. When were these swaps of swaps made?

As for the cash thing, how much cash are you allowed to send out in trades? Is the limit per transaction/trade?

Also, when comparing/ranking players, do they majority of you guys think Graham is better than Payne? In other words, do you guys expect Devonte to be the backup PG to start the season?

[exstatic]

we're gonna have plenty of dead salary this year one way or another because we have to waive enough guys to trim down to 15. if we can unload some of those to chicago and consolidate, it makes sense for this year. like... if we were going to waive birch + bullock, thats already nearly 20 mil. no skin off our backs to replace that with lonzo

we'd be eating 20 mil next year as an expiring in exchange for the pick, really. but could then also immediately apply for the DPE

Lowry is a much better option for those players. We've already monetized them once for cash and the swap with Dallas, plus a residual SRP or two, and can probably get something on the back end for Lowry at the deadline, and his money ends this year. Oh, and he can actually play. Not dead money.

If you look at the players we've taken into cap room this year, they're all serviceable guys who can defend and shoot. I'd rather let Chicago wither and die, and maximize the 2025 pick we already have from them, rather than sending them decent players in lieu of a cripple. That would improve their fortunes and make our existing pick worse. F the Bulls.

[Ice009]

I agree with Exstatic. I'd much rather trade for Lowry.

[spurraider21]

i prefer lowry as well. but as we know with the westbrook thing last year, we dont always get in on the trades that we want. the lonzo one is just an additional route. lowry carries a higher salary than lonzo meaning we could potentially consolidate even more spots instead of making wasteful cuts

[MultiTroll]

Can a veteran choose to go play at Austin, knowing (well hoping) that he gets called up to the Big Club?
Like lets say a player knows Wemby is going to blow up and the Spurs future looks great.
He's willing to go to Austin for X amount of time, hoping sooner or later a spot comes open.
Even if it's the following year(s) When Wemby will be that much better.

Cam Payne. Instead of saying Hell No i won't go to Austin, I'll get traded to ____. Payne decides to swallow his pride and go to Austing.
Pops Pet Trey Jones twists an ankle badly. Lets hope this does not happen.
But, theoretically now Payne is balling with Wemby in the playoffs.

[exstatic]

Can a veteran choose to go play at Austin, knowing (well hoping) that he gets called up to the Big Club?
Like lets say a player knows Wemby is going to blow up and the Spurs future looks great.
He's willing to go to Austin for X amount of time, hoping sooner or later a spot comes open.
Even if it's the following year(s) When Wemby will be that much better.

Cam Payne. Instead of saying Hell No i won't go to Austin, I'll get traded to ____. Payne decides to swallow his pride and go to Austing.
Pops Pet Trey Jones twists an ankle badly. Lets hope this does not happen.
But, theoretically now Payne is balling with Wemby in the playoffs.

A twisted ankle doesn't open up a roster spot. A blown out knee requiring surgery and a missed season doesn't open up a roster spot. There is no injured reserve list in the NBA. As long as you're being paid, and not under the stretch waiver provision, you occupy a roster spot.

[Mr. Body]

OKC is in a similar spot as the Spurs -- too many players. I think they have the full 21. They could be competition in a consolidation trade. I do think some of them are cheaper than ours, so might cut some outright. I also think they have more 'junk' at the bottom of their extended roster than we do.

[CGD]

we're gonna have plenty of dead salary this year one way or another because we have to waive enough guys to trim down to 15. if we can unload some of those to chicago and consolidate, it makes sense for this year. like... if we were going to waive birch + bullock, thats already nearly 20 mil. no skin off our backs to replace that with lonzo

we'd be eating 20 mil next year as an expiring in exchange for the pick, really. but could then also immediately apply for the DPE

Exactly this

[exstatic]

Exactly this

Player who can play with 1 year left >>> Player who's dead $$$ and has 2 years left.

The most important thing going forward is salary management.

It's also a BAD THING to ship useable players to Chicago 2 years before our pick options start. Let them fucking rot and have our pick position improve.

[Bruno]

Spurs don't really need to do another trade. Cutting players like Birch, Payne, Osman or Bullock would be fine to reach the 15 players limit.

With Mcdermott, Graham, Birch, Payne, Osman and Bullock, Spurs have $56.5M in expiring/almost expiring contracts. Even if they cut some of these players, Spurs will still have enough money to match salaries in a potential trade next season.

[spurraider21]

Player who can play with 1 year left >>> Player who's dead $$$ and has 2 years left.
nobody said we should just trade a couple of players for ball. the appeal of the trade would be getting additional picks.


The most important thing going forward is salary management.
of course. salary management for this year would be the same. for next year we'd eat lonzo's cap hit minus the DPE. thats the real consideration here. otherwise we are going to waive 20 mil in salary this year anyway. no difference is its just some guys we waive or its us holding ball. matters for 2024, but thats what the draft pick is meant to compensate


It's also a BAD THING to ship useable players to Chicago 2 years before our pick options start. Let them fucking rot and have our pick position improve.
the 2025 pick is a worthwhile consideration from the bulls that i hadnt considered, though bear in mind it is protected. making them deal with ball's cap hit in 2024 could help.

but in the proposed trade we'd get an additional pick. its not for nothing.

[spurraider21]

Spurs don't really need to do another trade. Cutting players like Birch, Payne, Osman or Bullock would be fine to reach the 15 players limit.

With Mcdermott, Graham, Birch, Payne, Osman and Bullock, Spurs have $56.5M in expiring/almost expiring contracts. Even if they cut some of these players, Spurs will still have enough money to match salaries in a potential trade next season.
"need" is a strong word. of course we dont need to. but waiving players who could have appeal as matching/expiring contracts at the deadline is leaving meat on the bone.

you could argue that its not enough to be concerned about, and are likely right. but if the opportunity presents itself, they should be active in those discussions

[Bruno]

"need" is a strong word. of course we dont need to. but waiving players who could have appeal as matching/expiring contracts at the deadline is leaving meat on the bone.

you could argue that its not enough to be concerned about, and are likely right. but if the opportunity presents itself, they should be active in those discussions

One can wonder if having as much expiring contract as possible is necessarily a good thing. The more expiring you have the more other teams will ask you to take additional players in a trade.

For example, with $40M in expirings a team can take Lillard but with $55M in expirings, Portland will also ask the other team to take Nurkic. Saying that, you can also say that having $40M in expirings is bad because a third team can come with $55M in expirings and get Lillard because they can also take Nurkic.

Given all the first round picks Spurs have in the future, I much rather see them giving an extra first round pick than taking a bad contract.

[ChumpDumper]

I think a deal would have to be pretty substantial deal to veer from the current trajectory. The actual money the Spurs are set to pay is approximately floor + Primo since other teams are paying the rest. I guess if a home run deal for a long term contributor/real star comes along before camp, that could be done but the Spurs might be more finicky about what they take back than most would like. I can't squint hard enough to see most of the stuff I see bandied about here happening.

[spurraider21]

I think a deal would have to be pretty substantial deal to veer from the current trajectory. The actual money the Spurs are set to pay is approximately floor + Primo since other teams are paying the rest. I guess if a home run deal for a long term contributor/real star comes along before camp, that could be done but the Spurs might be more finicky about what they take back than most would like. I can't squint hard enough to see most of the stuff I see bandied about here happening.
if miami sends out herro/robinson/jacquez in a lillard trade, you cant squint hard enough to see them wanting to sell off Lowry for spare parts?

the lonzo scenario is one i see to be much less likely, that one is more theorycrafting than anything.

[ChumpDumper]

if miami sends out herro/robinson/jacquez in a lillard trade, you cant squint hard enough to see them wanting to sell off Lowry for spare parts?Not sure the Spurs would want Lowry. I mean I guess if they get a favorable pick situation out of it it could work. Not even sure the Spurs keep him the whole season in that case.

[Excessive Egotist]

Not sure the Spurs would want Lowry. I mean I guess if they get a favorable pick situation out of it it could work. Not even sure the Spurs keep him the whole season in that case.

I've thought Lowry to Spurs would be likely if not for the fact Miami is doubtful to have enough assets left to make it worth SAS's time. Same with regard to Nurkic, whom would be more prohibitive than Lowry. There will not be enough assets to deal to entice Spurs to take him on, even if Miami finds a taker for Herro.

(This assumes Portland holds the line at 4 FRPs and Jamie.)

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs don't really need to do another trade. Cutting players like Birch, Payne, Osman or Bullock would be fine to reach the 15 players limit.

With Mcdermott, Graham, Birch, Payne, Osman and Bullock, Spurs have $56.5M in expiring/almost expiring contracts. Even if they cut some of these players, Spurs will still have enough money to match salaries in a potential trade next season.

Well sure, they don't have to do a trade but a trade is preferable if you can get an asset back and not be on the hook for the salary. They won't waive anyone until they have to and should be looking for alternatives until then.

[spurraider21]

dont see the spurs being the team to take on Nurkic at all. he's not the type of player i think the spurs would be coveting, and his contract runs through 25-26

lowry is possible because he's a vet PG who can shoot, is a more steady hand than either of Graham or Payne, and by all accounts is a good culture/leader type. and he's expiring anyway. id rather have him than, say, Graham + Bullock + Osman. bullock and osman are already cut candidates just to trim the roster down to 15, so we're not really losing anything out of that anyway. basically have to ask yourself if you'd rather have Lowry or Graham for the season. not even sure you need trade comp to justify it for SAS.

aside from lowry himself, would still leave the spurs with McDermott, Payne, Collins (and Birch, though im expecting him to be waived) as expiring deals to work with at the deadline, though personally id like to see zollins extended

[exstatic]

Not sure the Spurs would want Lowry. I mean I guess if they get a favorable pick situation out of it it could work. Not even sure the Spurs keep him the whole season in that case.

I think you flip Lowry at the deadline to a contender, and make Miami eat and pay for Birch, and that's your payoff.

[DPG21920]

I don’t mind taking on a bad contract that’s 2 years honestly if they asset is worth it. This year clearly doesn’t matter contract wise for FA etc…so it’s really about next off season where that is an issue.

However, in that scenario, said player would now be an expiring to another team where SA could pay to move them and still net a win/virtually consolidate picks that way.

Example: Take on player with 2 year bad deal and get a first round pick. Following off season, pay 2-3 2nds to trade player into someone else’s cap space if needed. Functional trade: 2-3 2nds for a first round pick.

[exstatic]

dont see the spurs being the team to take on Nurkic at all. he's not the type of player i think the spurs would be coveting, and his contract runs through 25-26

lowry is possible because he's a vet PG who can shoot, is a more steady hand than either of Graham or Payne, and by all accounts is a good culture/leader type. and he's expiring anyway. id rather have him than, say, Graham + Bullock + Osman. bullock and osman are already cut candidates just to trim the roster down to 15, so we're not really losing anything out of that anyway. basically have to ask yourself if you'd rather have Lowry or Graham for the season. not even sure you need trade comp to justify it for SAS.

aside from lowry himself, would still leave the spurs with McDermott, Payne, Collins (and Birch, though im expecting him to be waived) as expiring deals to work with at the deadline, though personally id like to see zollins extended

Yeah, Miami doesn't even have enough assets to pay for Dame, and Portland sure isn't going to give us anything. We don't have to be entwined in the trade, but rather peripheral. Miami makes their deal with Portland for Dame, and then they include us to backfill their roster. There's really no interchange between us and Portland, and there doesn't have to be, as long as we send out assets and receive assets.

[ace3g]

Spurs waive Payne

[spurraider21]

very slim chance they were going to keep both graham and payne, but guess they felt a trade wasnt gonna happen.

[Mr. Body]

End of an erra.

[Seventyniner]

I wonder if the Spurs were trying to include him in a trade and just couldn't get a deal done.

Thus ends the Spurs' attempts at Cam Payne finance reform.

[Mr. Body]

I wonder if the Spurs were trying to include him in a trade and just couldn't get a deal done.

Thus ends the Spurs' attempts at Cam Payne finance reform.

Yeah I would guess they were trying to flip him and others. Don't think there's anything there. Teams are done making moves right now.

[Chinook]

Basically guarantees Wesley's spot. The Spurs likely want to sign some Toros deals and need want the open spots to process through.

[Mr. Body]

Blake Wesley's spot was never in danger.

[ducks]

Spurs front office could not even trade him for cash
Wow

[exstatic]

Yeah I would guess they were trying to flip him and others. Don't think there's anything there. Teams are done making moves right now.

Not quite. I'm thinking that more than a few transactions will flow once the Dame trade happens.

[CGD]

Spurs front office could not even trade him for cash
Wow

If I recall correctly Suns paid us to take him pretty much.

[Mr. Body]

Not quite. I'm thinking that more than a few transactions will flow once the Dame trade happens.

I don't think it'll happen. Maybe middle of the season.

[JPB]

I don't think it'll happen. Maybe middle of the season.

Same. Blazers are definitely ready to wait.

[exstatic]

Same. Blazers are definitely ready to wait.

For what? He's said he won't play anywhere else, and Miami has finite resources. Two picks, some swaps, and Herro is it. No other team wants to risk resources to try. Waiting is just petty, and foolish. Get the mad out of your system, and get the trade done. Anything else risks completely destroying the relationship with a franchise icon. It's their damn fault anyway. They should have traded him two years ago, before they tanked twice. This is why you have to choose a clear path. You're either rebuilding or re-tooling. Pick one, and be clear about it, so your star knows what you're doing, and can act accordingly.

[KingKev]

For what? He's said he won't play anywhere else, and Miami has finite resources. Two picks, some swaps, and Herro is it. No other team wants to risk resources to try. Waiting is just petty, and foolish. Get the mad out of your system, and get the trade done. Anything else risks completely destroying the relationship with a franchise icon. It's their damn fault anyway. They should have traded him two years ago, before they tanked twice. This is why you have to choose a clear path. You're either rebuilding or re-tooling. Pick one, and be clear about it, so your star knows what you're doing, and can act accordingly.

Preach sir!!! I love Dame tbh but Portland needs to lift that offer and move forward.

[Chucho]

For what? He's said he won't play anywhere else, and Miami has finite resources. Two picks, some swaps, and Herro is it. No other team wants to risk resources to try. Waiting is just petty, and foolish. Get the mad out of your system, and get the trade done. Anything else risks completely destroying the relationship with a franchise icon. It's their damn fault anyway. They should have traded him two years ago, before they tanked twice. This is why you have to choose a clear path. You're either rebuilding or re-tooling. Pick one, and be clear about it, so your star knows what you're doing, and can act accordingly.


To put players on notice to honor their contracts? I dunno, it might be that integrity and honor don't matter anymore, but if you're willing to take the money and sign that fat contract, do your job.

Again, I know things are different and people are generally scummy in today's age, but he signed an agreement and isn't holding his part of the bargain up.

[scott]

For what? He's said he won't play anywhere else, and Miami has finite resources. Two picks, some swaps, and Herro is it. No other team wants to risk resources to try. Waiting is just petty, and foolish. Get the mad out of your system, and get the trade done. Anything else risks completely destroying the relationship with a franchise icon. It's their damn fault anyway. They should have traded him two years ago, before they tanked twice. This is why you have to choose a clear path. You're either rebuilding or re-tooling. Pick one, and be clear about it, so your star knows what you're doing, and can act accordingly.

I don't disagree with your logic here at all, but I am concerned that if Portland does the "smart" thing - it will essentially reward Dame and the Heat for playing a de facto no trade clause, and create a successful precedent for others to do that same thing. For Portland's own sake, they should just "get the made out of the system and get the trade down" like you state. For the sake of the league, they should stand pat.

[exstatic]

To put players on notice to honor their contracts? I dunno, it might be that integrity and honor don't matter anymore, but if you're willing to take the money and sign that fat contract, do your job.

Again, I know things are different and people are generally scummy in today's age, but he signed an agreement and isn't holding his part of the bargain up.

That's not how the NBA works any more, and in reality, they tanked twice, but thought that without discussing it, he would be fine with a rebuild?? Obviously, he's not. They should have made sure they were on the same page, and really should have traded him two years ago, or at a minimum, spring or summer of 2022. It would have avoided all of this, and gotten them a better price. If they traded him before the delayed 2021 Olympic tournament, he wouldn't have been so locked into Miami having played with Bam on that team.

Superstars run the show. It's reality, and you don't force them to do anything unless you never want another one on your roster.

[exstatic]

I don't disagree with your logic here at all, but I am concerned that if Portland does the "smart" thing - it will essentially reward Dame and the Heat for playing a de facto no trade clause, and create a successful precedent for others to do that same thing. For Portland's own sake, they should just "get the made out of the system and get the trade down" like you state. For the sake of the league, they should stand pat.

That's happening repeatedly already. Portland cannot fix it. Only the league can by putting something in the next CBA.

There were posters here who wanted us to hold Kawhi and The Group to the fire, but that wouldn't have worked out, either. We got Poodle, DD and a first round pick. We flipped DD to Chicago for another FRP and Young, who we combined with a SRP to get another FRP. We then flipped Poodle back to TOR for a very lightly protected FRP. Total: 4 FRPs. If you're patient, you can improve on an initial return that is non-ideal, and move on.

[scott]

That's happening repeatedly already. Portland cannot fix it. Only the league can by putting something in the next CBA.

There were posters here who wanted us to hold Kawhi and The Group to the fire, but that wouldn't have worked out, either. We got Poodle, DD and a first round pick. We flipped DD to Chicago for another FRP and Young, who we combined with a SRP to get another FRP. We then flipped Poodle back to TOR for a very lightly protected FRP. Total: 4 FRPs. If you're patient, you can improve on an initial return that is non-ideal, and move on.

Difference between Neph and Dame trades is that Neph never demanded he go to one team and one team only. Have any other players successfully pulled a de facto no-trade clause like Dame is attempting to?

League needs to come down with fines on Dame and his agent for this stunt. I'm usually all for player empowerment (and employee empowerment in general) but in this case Dame is excessively causing harm to the team who currently holds his rights (which happens in any scenario where a player demands a trade - but especially when you limit it to only one team). If this is allowed to slide, Miami should lower their offer to only 1 FRP.

[scott]

And especially if we hope that one day the Spurs will add more stars around Wemby via trade, we should not want Portland to simply acquiesce to Dame holding them hostage. I know there is a fantasy that Luka will demand to play for the Spurs and no one else, but let's be real here. If players are granted the proven ability to have a de facto trade clause, the Spurs aren't going to be able to acquire a star player ever.

[Dex]

Payne has been airing out his feelings about the trade on Insta and social media.

I get it, no player wants to get traded from a team that is contending, but he didn't seem to really want to be in San Antonio and those aren't the type of players we want to surround our young guys with.

Would've been nice to get something for him, but cuts have to be made and this may be another case of the Spurs FO trying to be the "nice guys"

[td4mvp2k]

Payne has been airing out his feelings about the trade on Insta and social media.

I get it, no player wants to get traded from a team that is contending, but he didn't seem to really want to be in San Antonio and those aren't the type of players we want to surround our young guys with.

Would've been nice to get something for him, but cuts have to be made and this may be another case of the Spurs FO trying to be the "nice guys"
never liked him anyways going back to okc.. not surprised him crying about it.

[TD 21]

Superstars run the show. It's reality, and you don't force them to do anything unless you never want another one on your roster.

No matter what the non glamor markets do, superstars aren't flocking to them and will look for any excuse/reason to leave them anyway, so the priority needs to be doing right by themselves.

If Cronin blows this, it could be the beginning of his end with them and his sole shot at being the lead decision maker.



Difference between Neph and Dame trades is that Neph never demanded he go to one team and one team only. Have any other players successfully pulled a de facto no-trade clause like Dame is attempting to?

No, he had the decency to demand a market that just so happened to have two teams.

He was the ringleader for much of the behavior we see today (Davis pulled Lakers or bust), since they all saw that you can pull virtually anything and not only get away with it, but have it increase your profile somehow.

[timtonymanu]

Dude didn’t want to be traded here. No point in keeping his mopey ass around. Good riddance.

[jjspur]

Does anyone know how much Phoenix paid us to take on his contract ? I know we got a second, was there anything else or did we just get a grumpy dude that thinks more of himself than the rest of the league does plus his 6.5 million dollar contract.

[JPB]

For what? He's said he won't play anywhere else, and Miami has finite resources. Two picks, some swaps, and Herro is it. No other team wants to risk resources to try. Waiting is just petty, and foolish. Get the mad out of your system, and get the trade done. Anything else risks completely destroying the relationship with a franchise icon. It's their damn fault anyway. They should have traded him two years ago, before they tanked twice. This is why you have to choose a clear path. You're either rebuilding or re-tooling. Pick one, and be clear about it, so your star knows what you're doing, and can act accordingly.

Sources close to the Blazers indicated they'd be ready to wait. Bluff or not, the relatioship is already broken anyway and I don't believe they want to make Lillard any favor now... Besides, the offer should still be there at the next trade deadline and you never what else could be there, we've seen weirdest things in the NBA, but if you don't wait, you'll never know. Blazers are not playing for anything next year, there's no real pressure for them and I suppose Dame would still somehow mentor Scoot in the meantime.

I'm not even defending the waiting game for POR but that's really not to be excluded. We'll see.

[CGD]

Does anyone know how much Phoenix paid us to take on his contract ? I know we got a second, was there anything else or did we just get a grumpy dude that thinks more of himself than the rest of the league does plus his 6.5 million dollar contract.

Reports about the trade say spurs got $5.7M in cash to eat his deal. Apparently that was the max amount of cash the Suns could send out under the old CBA. So basically the Spurs bought a SRP (I think vía NOLA) for $800,000.

[exstatic]

Sources close to the Blazers indicated they'd be ready to wait. Bluff or not, the relatioship is already broken anyway and I don't believe they want to make Lillard any favor now... Besides, the offer should still be there at the next trade deadline and you never what else could be there, we've seen weirdest things in the NBA, but if you don't wait, you'll never know. Blazers are not playing for anything next year, there's no real pressure for them and I suppose Dame would still somehow mentor Scoot in the meantime.

I'm not even defending the waiting game for POR but that's really not to be excluded. We'll see.

And what will they get at the deadline? No one else is going to offer anything for a player who doesn’t want to be on their team. They’ll get 2 FRPs and swap(s) plus Herro from Miami, exactly what they’ll get now.

[BackHome]

And just like that Payne got his wish and is released...:)

[heyheymymy]

I wonder if the Spurs were trying to include him in a trade and just couldn't get a deal done.

Thus ends the Spurs' attempts at Cam Payne finance reform.

Thanks this made my night

Bravo

[heyheymymy]

If some other team picks him up in 48 hrs is Payne's 6.5 off the Spurs books?

Is that not how it works? If it is, who would be likely candidates? Does Payne have the league wide interest level to be griping about being miserable in SA?

[sfernald]

Payne in the ass

[TD 21]

And what will they get at the deadline? No one else is going to offer anything for a player who doesn’t want to be on their team. They’ll get 2 FRPs and swap(s) plus Herro from Miami, exactly what they’ll get now.

Maybe, but training camp is the first artificial deadline, so there's no downside to waiting and seeing if they can squeeze out an extra asset.

With 4 seasons remaining on his contract, his only leverage is banking on their not wanting to take the PR hit of "doing wrong by him".

[spursparker9]

Spurs making space for Primo? :lol

[Gagnrath]

If some other team picks him up in 48 hrs is Payne's 6.5 off the Spurs books?

Is that not how it works? If it is, who would be likely candidates? Does Payne have the league wide interest level to be griping about being miserable in SA?

He has a decent amount of interest around the league.... quite a few of the outside shot at a championship teams might take a flyer on him.... He has a decent 3 ball shows in the playoffs and is an ok ball handler. He is cheap insurance at the PG spot. No one loves him enough to take him with in the 48 hours when you can just sit and wait and negotiate just over league min. There decent interest though.

[FutureMan]

While the Spurs are waiving players at or below Paynes level can they just go ahead and waive Birch, Graham, Osman, & Bullock too??

[exstatic]

If some other team picks him up in 48 hrs is Payne's 6.5 off the Spurs books?

Is that not how it works? If it is, who would be likely candidates? Does Payne have the league wide interest level to be griping about being miserable in SA?

No one is going to want to pick up his contract, so he'll clear waivers, and sign for league minimum, which will come off of the salary we still owe him.

[exstatic]

Spurs making space for Primo? :lol

No. He's never coming back, besides which we are now "down to" like 20 roster spots, not really "room" for anyone.

[exstatic]

While the Spurs are waiving players at or below Paynes level can they just go ahead and waive Birch, Graham, Osman, & Bullock too??

Why waive Graham? He did pretty well last year with us. It would be a pretty big cash bite, too, $12.5M this year plus his guaranteed $2.5M next year. $15M is a lot different than waiving Payne for $6M, most of which PHO paid us for.

[Mr. Body]

Why waive Graham? He did pretty well last year with us. It would be a pretty big cash bite, too, $12.5M this year plus his guaranteed $2.5M next year. $15M is a lot different than waiving Payne for $6M, most of which PHO paid us for.

I feel like the team loves Graham, great attitude and he does what Pop wants from him -- just shoots the ball when open. Makes him a good threat in pick-and-rolls. Good vet to have for the year.

I don't get why Birch has lasted this long. I think it's Birch and one other dude and that's the offseason.

[exstatic]

I feel like the team loves Graham, great attitude and he does what Pop wants from him -- just shoots the ball when open. Makes him a good threat in pick-and-rolls. Good vet to have for the year.

I don't get why Birch has lasted this long. I think it's Birch and one other dude and that's the offseason.

I think they're hanging onto the rest of these guys for salary ballast for a possible trade. Birch has some kind of chronic knee thing, and might not make it back or play again, so that's really all he's useful for.

Eventually (and soon), cuts or a trade will have to be made, and frankly, I don't see any of the three that should stand in the way of converting Barlow. Cut 'em all.

[Mr. Body]

I think they're hanging onto the rest of these guys for salary ballast for a possible trade. Birch has some kind of chronic knee thing, and might not make it back or play again, so that's really all he's useful for.

Eventually (and soon), cuts or a trade will have to be made, and frankly, I don't see any of the three that should stand in the way of converting Barlow. Cut 'em all.

Agree. I just don't think there's a market open anymore, least at this point. 1) The Harden and Dame trades don't look to happen until after season begins, if ever, and 2) No one has anything to trade. I could see a team liking a Reggie Bullock but not trading for him, same as with Payne.

So, yeah, I see probably Birch and Bullock going, but I've lost track of how many cuts they need. I see them keeping Osman for now.

[FutureMan]

Why waive Graham? He did pretty well last year with us. It would be a pretty big cash bite, too, $12.5M this year plus his guaranteed $2.5M next year. $15M is a lot different than waiving Payne for $6M, most of which PHO paid us for.

Did he though? Here’s my issue - the combination of Tre Jones shooting 28% from 3 and Graham at 38% for FGs makes the PG position a complete loss. A guarantee that the Spurs won’t win over 40 games. That’s without even discussing Wesley and his many issues.

What I’d most prefer is to trade Graham. I’m just annoyed that it hasn’t happened yet.

[exstatic]

Agree. I just don't think there's a market open anymore, least at this point. 1) The Harden and Dame trades don't look to happen until after season begins, if ever, and 2) No one has anything to trade. I could see a team liking a Reggie Bullock but not trading for him, same as with Payne.

So, yeah, I see probably Birch and Bullock going, but I've lost track of how many cuts they need. I see them keeping Osman for now.

I agree that a trade is unlikely, but you don't close that door until you have to. I think they have to cut two of them, but as I said, I don't think any of them should keep Barlow off the big club. Cut all three when the time comes, and convert Barlow.

[exstatic]

Did he though? Here’s my issue - the combination of Tre Jones shooting 28% from 3 and Graham at 38% for FGs makes the PG position a complete loss. A guarantee that the Spurs won’t win over 40 games. That’s without even discussing Wesley and his many issues.

What I’d most prefer is to trade Graham. I’m just annoyed that it hasn’t happened yet.

Graham will likely be traded at the deadline. He'll bring more then than now, because by then, the contenders are revealed. Teams will pay for a piece that can help them down the stretch and in the playoffs, and who can also be cut next summer if need be to lower them below one of the tax aprons if they send us a full contract for next year, plus some assets.

[heyheymymy]

Agree Graham is a likely deadline trade

Also feel like Doug is a deadline trade and the Spurs were being picky with offers for Doug last deadline, knowing unless it was a slam dunk offer at deadline 23 that SA had another round at deadline 24, even better expiring situation with Doug.

SA could afford to be stingy with Doug offers if any last season

[heyheymymy]

Meanwhile SF could be an audition position in 23-24 with the best of Doug, Champ, Osman, Bullock (both if somehow kept going into this upcoming season) staying on with the team behind KJ and possibly Sochan should Jeremy be able to slide down any due to progression of his game/skills

The rest of the SFs playing up their value where applicable until a deadline 24 trade.

[DPG21920]

Glad he’s gone - didn’t want to be here and the trade was not for him but the capital. Not too surprised they could not trade him tbh, just glad he wont be soaking up minutes from Tre/Branham or others.

Spurs will use Sochan as a PG too

[Em-City]

Glad he’s gone - didn’t want to be here and the trade was not for him but the capital. Not too surprised they could not trade him tbh, just glad he wont be soaking up minutes from Tre/Branham or others.

Spurs will use Sochan as a PG too

Help me understand what we got.. the cash is less than the salary that needed to be eaten, so is it 800k for a 2nd rounder?

[exstatic]

Help me understand what we got.. the cash is less than the salary that needed to be eaten, so is it 800k for a 2nd rounder?

We will also meet the salary floor, and get our luxtax distribution next summer. Also, if someone signs him to a contract, that money is subtracted from what we owe him.

BTW, 800K is cheap for a second rounder.

[Mr. Body]

We will also meet the salary floor, and get our luxtax distribution next summer. Also, if someone signs him to a contract, that money is subtracted from what we owe him.

BTW, 800K is cheap for a second rounder.

Detroit ate $20 million to take Joe Harris and got two second round picks.

[jjspur]

Detroit ate $20 million to take Joe Harris and got two second round picks.

When you put it in that perspective, 800k is a real bargain and then some, considering we got rid of a malcontent as well.

[spurraider21]

We will also meet the salary floor, and get our luxtax distribution next summer. Also, if someone signs him to a contract, that money is subtracted from what we owe him.

BTW, 800K is cheap for a second rounder.
We didn’t need Payne to hit the floor

generally speaking, really not caring for “hitting the floor” as a positive trait for a trade :lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

When you put it in that perspective, 800k is a real bargain and then some, considering we got rid of a malcontent as well.

If he signs with someone which I am sure he will the minimum salary for him is around $2.7 million. So the Spurs will end up with almost $2 million plus a 2nd round pick for nothing. Seems like a small win to me.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Payne is clearly a little better player in his head than what he's shown so far in the league. Spurs don't need that with this young group. If he embraced being a veteran leader that would have been cool...but no big loss.

[exstatic]

We didn’t need Payne to hit the floor

generally speaking, really not caring for “hitting the floor” as a positive trait for a trade :lol

It's much more important this year than ever before. If you don't hit the floor, you lose half of your luxtax payment next summer. That's millions. In subsequent years, the entire payment will be forfeited.

[spurraider21]

It's much more important this year than ever before. If you don't hit the floor, you lose half of your luxtax payment next summer. That's millions. In subsequent years, the entire payment will be forfeited.
you can hit the floor by signing some guy off the street to a guaranteed deal and waiving him

"hitting the floor" doesnt add any value to the trade

in any event, our current cap number is about 16 mil over the floor. the payne trade wasnt needed to get us over the floor. im glad we made the deal because we got a pick out of it

[DPG21920]

you can hit the floor by signing some guy off the street to a guaranteed deal and waiving him

"hitting the floor" doesnt add any value to the trade

True but it provides some extra context to paying a salary (considering Sa got cash too) and the “price” they paid for that pick.

[spurraider21]

True but it provides some extra context to paying a salary (considering Sa got cash too) and the “price” they paid for that pick.
i mean yeah, if the owner doesnt give the team a reasonable budget and requires cash considerations to make a deal just to hit the cap floor, you've got bigger problems :lol

[Ocotillo]

Payne is clearly a little better player in his head than what he's shown so far in the league. Spurs don't need that with this young group. If he embraced being a veteran leader that would have been cool...but no big loss. And Graham seems to be embracing that role. Josh Richardson was a good vet for these guys and while Graham has a strong chance of being dealt at the deadline, his attitude is good.

[Cabrito]

I am not certain will be dealt at the deadline. Another team will need to want him and I am not sure there will be a market for him.

[Bruno]

Payne being waived before the training camp really show what this trade is all about: the second round pick Spurs' got for taking his contract. The question is how good will it be?

The pick Spurs got is New Orleans 2025 second round pick. Hornets should get better but they still have a long way before being a top team. I would say this pick has a bigger chance of being an early second round pick than a late one.

The main issue with that it's that it's in 2025 draft pick. In 2025, Spurs will have between 2 to 5 first round picks and 3 second round picks. Spurs won't keep all these picks and they will need to do some trades.

When you look at all the salary dump trades made this summer, Spurs got a good deal. We will see how Wright will manage all these picks in 2025.

[exstatic]

Payne being waived before the training camp really show what this trade is all about: the second round pick Spurs' got for taking his contract. The question is how good will it be?

The pick Spurs got is New Orleans 2025 second round pick. Hornets should get better but they still have a long way before being a top team. I would say this pick has a bigger chance of being an early second round pick than a late one.

The main issue with that it's that it's in 2025 draft pick. In 2025, Spurs will have between 2 to 5 first round picks and 3 second round picks. Spurs won't keep all these picks and they will need to do some trades.

When you look at all the salary dump trades made this summer, Spurs got a good deal. We will see how Wright will manage all these picks in 2025.

The pick was only half of it. We also got almost enough money to cover his salary, too, and depending on how much he signs for elsewhere, Spurs may have gotten free money AND the draft pick.

[spurraider21]

The pick was only half of it. We also got almost enough money to cover his salary, too, and depending on how much he signs for elsewhere, Spurs may have gotten free money AND the draft pick.
the owners* get free money

the team doesnt benefit from that

[Seventyniner]

the owners* get free money

the team doesnt benefit from that

imo it shows how desperate the Suns were.

The money benefits the owners, the pick benefits the team. There weren't any deals out there good enough for the Spurs to need to maintain cap space so they used it for a couple of minor assets. I don't see the problem.

[spurraider21]

imo it shows how desperate the Suns were.

The money benefits the owners, the pick benefits the team. There weren't any deals out there good enough for the Spurs to need to maintain cap space so they used it for a couple of minor assets. I don't see the problem.
ive said multiple times i liked the Payne trade because of the pick we got out of it

i'm just not going to list "reaching the floor" and "money in the pocket of the owners" as reasons to like the trade

[exstatic]

the owners* get free money

the team doesnt benefit from that

Players benefited from being under the floor this year. They get to split the amount that the team was under the floor. Spurs could have been dicks and grabbed some late salary like the sixers did that one year.

I don’t know if you realize it, but owners don’t pocket money like that. It’ll go onto the balance sheet, and be paid over the next years to Vassell, Sochan,and Wemby. Owners really only make money when they sell and cash out.

[spurraider21]

Players benefited from being under the floor this year. They get to split the amount that the team was under the floor. Spurs could have been dicks and grabbed some late salary like the sixers did that one year.

I don’t know if you realize it, but owners don’t pocket money like that. It’ll go onto the balance sheet, and be paid over the next years to Vassell, Sochan,and Wemby. Owners really only make money when they sell and cash out.
The team didn’t benefit from us being below the floor. The bank accounts of the players did. Keldon collecting an extra 300k or whatever doesn’t make the spurs better.

i only care about the spurs being better. Not the owner or players becoming slightly more wealthy

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

To be honest, I'd rather see the Spurs try to develop Jabari Rice than give this mofo a roster spot.

[JPB]

Payne being waived before the training camp really show what this trade is all about: the second round pick Spurs' got for taking his contract. The question is how good will it be?

The pick Spurs got is New Orleans 2025 second round pick. Hornets should get better but they still have a long way before being a top team. I would say this pick has a bigger chance of being an early second round pick than a late one.

The main issue with that it's that it's in 2025 draft pick. In 2025, Spurs will have between 2 to 5 first round picks and 3 second round picks. Spurs won't keep all these picks and they will need to do some trades.

When you look at all the salary dump trades made this summer, Spurs got a good deal. We will see how Wright will manage all these picks in 2025.

It's not really a problem to have more 2RPs, as we've seen recently, they have some value not just for themselves... You can drop them in packages for a bench vet, to sweeten a trade or just sell them.

[wildbill2u]

Does it still work to use a 2rp on some obscure player in nowhereistan if you can't find a useful player to pick?

[exstatic]

Does it still work to use a 2rp on some obscure player in nowhereistan if you can't find a useful player to pick?

Better to kick the pick down the road like we did with #33 this year, getting a future SRP and some cash.

edit: it was two SRPs, Denver's 2026 SRP and Minnesota's own 2028 SRP.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1708536077986766987

[CGD]

Good for him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If he signs with someone which I am sure he will the minimum salary for him is around $2.7 million. So the Spurs will end up with almost $2 million plus a 2nd round pick for nothing. Seems like a small win to me.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Too bad Payne was such a prick. Had he had any balls he could be helping the Spurs a lot right now.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I hope he’s enjoying those 11 1/2 minutes a game with the Bucks.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Fvck you Cam Payne! You could have made a difference you ignorant prick!

:lol

[timtonymanu]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2024/06/14/cameron-payne-arrest-scottsdale-phoenix-suns/74102950007/

Something about this guy has always been kind of douchey.

[rascal]

Spurstalk gets excited no matter what scrub the team picks up. Go back and read who thought this guy was going to make any type of difference.

This guy didn't even play one game for the Spurs.

[exstatic]

He wouldn’t have played 150 minutes this year for us. Thanks, Milwaukee for cutting our dead money by. $2M this year by signing him.

Another Presti golden nugget!

[playblair]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxx2QQQxlVc