It’s not just the old heads, now Murphy III is throwing shade at wemby

[ambchang]

https://www.kens5.com/amp/article/sports/nba/spurs/pelicans-player-picks-chet-holmgren-spurs-victor-wembanyama-rookie-of-the-year-nba-san-antonio/273-9c23a720-55e7-450d-82f9-123b9c6e2c62

Nothing wrong with picking Chet or saying wemby has to improve certain area, but Murphy III is strongly implying wemby is soft.

[CGD]

Slow NBA news month in full effect

[exstatic]

Ridiculous. Chet is shorter, just as thin, and has done nothing except suffer a catastrophic injury. Wemby also dominated him H2H in FIBA.

[kobyz]

I don't have problem with anything he said, Wemby is indeed soft right now and very a work in progress

[Mr. Body]

Chet has become kind of a thing, the cool contrarian opinion.

[Leetonidas]

Bulletin board material

Victor is also not "over 7'5" like Murphy claims

[ginobilized]

I hope Chet has a great season. I don't see a generational talent in him. Could be a very good to great player. Or less.

Defensively, Wemby is an alien. Truly elite, if not, generational talent on that side of the ball. Wemby's fluidity, extension and timing are better in what I've seen of the two.

7'3.5" wingspan vs 8" wingspan

Wemby looks stronger than Chet to me. Kind of like Duncan in that regard. Country strong.

In two years, when Wemby is Chet's current age, this will likely be a laughable comparison.

Here's to the boring-ass dog days of the NBA.

[Ariel]

Funny, I just remember Tre Murphy saying Victor was going to be a game changer defensively right out of the gate, at draft night.
Is Chet more polished? Yes, in that he's closer to his potential. Victor has all the talent in the world, but he still has to figure out plenty of things before we know what he can become.
Is Chet a better shooter? Undoubtedly. Again, Victor has potential as a shooter but Chet is already at 40% from 3, we can only hope Victor comes close to that (I'll settle for league average).
Does Chet play a more physical style? Yes, he's in the paint a lot and gets thrown around like a rag doll, and he still has to play his first NBA game even though he was drafted a year ago, because of injury. I don't want Wemby to play that game, he can play with reckless abandon in a few select times, but most times he should be played more conservatively. It will be best for him and us in the long run.
All in all, I'm not outraged by Tre Murphy's statements. Personally I think has a great chance at ROY if he remains healthy and OKC makes the playoffs. I'm more interested in where they'll stand a decade from now, and that's a different story.

[wildbill2u]

Let's hope for about 15 years of bullshit stories and comparisons about our Wemby during every off season. Stir the pot. Keep the conversations going. It's all good.

[CorrectCrusader]

When Victor Wembanyama has an all-nba season, it's gonna be fun having all these threads to come back to

[cd98]

Until they play the games, nobody really knows. I think Wemby will be fine, but most players taken in the first round don’t make it in the league 5 years. Talent does not always mean success in the NBA. I just think that if the kid has the talent, one of the best places for him to develop it into a star is in San Antonio in an organization that has done more with less talented players.

[heyheymymy]

lol who the fuck is trey Murphy III, who the fuck asked? Might as well ask Moses Moody if Victor is going to be a bust.

Do we have Tre Mann's opinion in yet, too? Anyone know? Waiting to exhale over here.

[exstatic]

Until they play the games, nobody really knows. I think Wemby will be fine, but most players taken in the first round don’t make it in the league 5 years. Talent does not always mean success in the NBA. I just think that if the kid has the talent, one of the best places for him to develop it into a star is in San Antonio in an organization that has done more with less talented players.

#1 picks have an infinitesimally small bust rate. They’re not normal or ordinary FRPs.

[Ocotillo]

Screw this stuff, just put your head down and go to work. I am pretty sure that is what is going on with the Spurs organization. Since, Wemby hasn't been in a true NBA game yet, the crows on the line are going to make a lot of noise. They are jealous of the attention the guy has gotten and want to talk sh*t for now. Go to work and they will be saying how they knew how great Wemby wasn going to be all along.

[Extra Stout]

Who?

[Ariel]

Who?
The guy we should have picked over Primo. In all honesty I wanted Sengun, but he'd be great on the Spurs.

[slick'81]

Who?

gives a shit:lol

[OldMan88]

I interrupted a perfectly good nap for this. Dammit.

[DAF86]

I don't have problem with anything he said, Wemby is indeed soft right now and very a work in progress

Lacking strength isn't the same as being soft. Wemby is extremely tough and competitive. It shows in the H2H domination he had of Chet a couple of years back and the French playoffs run he just had. Those games were tougher than anything Chet or this Murphy guy ever played on their lives.

[spurraider21]

Ridiculous. Chet is shorter, just as thin, and has done nothing except suffer a catastrophic injury. Wemby also dominated him H2H in FIBA.
These guys are going to have dozens of head to head matchups in the coming years. Can we stop just pointing to one international U19 game as meaningful evidence? :lol

[Fusternino]

Was anyone else wondering if DJ had a kid who finally got old enough to figure out how to troll online?

[Mr. Body]

Who?

The voice of the New Orleans Pelicans because Zion is am embarrassment and Ingram is always stoned.

[scott]

#1 picks have an infinitesimally small bust rate. They’re not normal or ordinary FRPs.

Was curious about this, and was interested in a Saturday morning research project, so I looked it up going back to 1990.



Year
Player
Years Played
WS
VORP
VORP Rank
Highest VORP
Bust?


1990
Derrick Coleman
15
64.3
22.3
3
Gary Payton
No


1991
Larry Johnson
10
69.7
22.0
4
Dikembe Mutombo
No


1992
Shaquille O'Neal
19
181.7
75.5
1
Shaq
No


1993
Chris Webber
15
84.7
42.1
1
Webber
No


1994
Glenn Robinson
11
39.8
13.5
7
Jason Kidd
No


1995
Joe Smith
16
60.3
3.0
15
Kevin Garnett
No


1996
Allen Iverson
14
99.0
49.6
3
Kobe Bryant
No


1997
Tim Duncan
19
206.4
91.1
1
Timmy
No


1998
Michael Olowokandi
9
2.5
-8.5
56
Dirk Nowitzki
Yes


1999
Elton Brand
17
109.6
37.3
5
Shawn Marion/Manu (Tie)
No


2000
Kenyon Martin
15
48
12.1
5
Michael Redd
No


2001
Kwame Brown
12
20.8
-1.3
45
Pau Gasol (TP9 is #2)
Yes?


2002
Yao Ming
8
65.9
20.7
3
Carlos Boozer
No


2003
Lebron James
20
255.1
146.6
1
Lebron
No


2004
Dwight Howard
18
141.7
39.0
2
Andre Iguodala
No


2005
Andrew Bogut
14
50.6
16.0
6
Chris Paul
No


2006
Andrea Bargnani
10
18.9
1.5
17
Kyle Lowry
Maybe?


2007
Greg Oden
3
7.3
0.8
23
Kevin Durant
Yes


2008
Derrick Rose
14
44.2
18.3
8
Russell Westbrook
No


2009
Blake Griffin
13
81.1
32.8
3
James Harden
No


2010
John Wall
11
44.5
24.1
2
Paul George
No


2011
Kyrie Irving
12
79.4
37.6
3
Jimmy Butler (Nephew #2)
No


2012
Anthony Davis
11
100.3
46.1
2
Dame Lillard
No


2013
Anthony Bennett
4
0.5
-1.3
50
GIannis Antetokounmpo
Yes


2014
Andrew Wiggins
9
26.3
3.0
18
Nikola Jokic
Maybe?


2015
Karl Anthony Towns
8
68.7
29.5
1
Towns
No


2016
Ben Simmons
5
32.6
14.2
3
Sabonis
No?


2017
Markelle Fultz
6
7.2
1.2
18
Jason Tatum
Maybe?


2018
Deandre Ayton
5
30.9
7.2
7
Luka Doncic
No


2019
Zion Williamson
3
14.2
6.6
2
Ja Morant
No


2020
Anthony Edwards
3
8.9
4.1
4
Tyrese Haliburton
No



So at most, I count only 5 busts in 31 years. That's pretty good. With that said, the #1 pick only ends up with the highest VORP 5 times as well, and 3 of them were truly generational, no brainer pick, talents in Shaq, Timmy and Lebron

To determine if a player was a bust or not, it was a rather subjective choice to say yes or no based on their year's played, career WS and VORP. Let me know if you disagree.

Interestingly, I did not realize how close Dirk was to Tim in terms of career WS and VORP. Dirk's were 206.3 and 84.8, respectively. Only Lebron is higher. This is largely a function of longevity though.

Was surprised that James Harden has a higher WS and VORP than Steph Curry (128/65.6) - which makes me question those metrics more than anything else tbh.

Anthony Bennett had the 50th worst VORP of the 2013 draft... this actually makes him sound better than he is. Only 51 players ever made the NBA from that draft. Ben McLemore is the only player worst from that draft.

[DAF86]

Was curious about this, and was interested in a Saturday morning research project, so I looked it up going back to 1990.



Year
Player
Years Played
WS
VORP
VORP Rank
Highest VORP
Bust?


1990
Derrick Coleman
15
64.3
22.3
3
Gary Payton
No


1991
Larry Johnson
10
69.7
22.0
4
Dikembe Mutombo
No


1992
Shaquille O'Neal
19
181.7
75.5
1
Shaq
No


1993
Chris Webber
15
84.7
42.1
1
Webber
No


1994
Glenn Robinson
11
39.8
13.5
7
Jason Kidd
No


1995
Joe Smith
16
60.3
3.0
15
Kevin Garnett
No


1996
Allen Iverson
14
99.0
49.6
3
Kobe Bryant
No


1997
Tim Duncan
19
206.4
91.1
1
Timmy
No


1998
Michael Olowokandi
9
2.5
-8.5
56
Dirk Nowitzki
Yes


1999
Elton Brand
17
109.6
37.3
5
Shawn Marion/Manu (Tie)
No


2000
Kenyon Martin
15
48
12.1
5
Michael Redd
No


2001
Kwame Brown
12
20.8
-1.3
45
Pau Gasol (TP9 is #2)
Yes?


2002
Yao Ming
8
65.9
20.7
3
Carlos Boozer
No


2003
Lebron James
20
255.1
146.6
1
Lebron
No


2004
Dwight Howard
18
141.7
39.0
2
Andre Iguodala
No


2005
Andrew Bogut
14
50.6
16.0
6
Chris Paul
No


2006
Andrea Bargnani
10
18.9
1.5
17
Kyle Lowry
Maybe?


2007
Greg Oden
3
7.3
0.8
23
Kevin Durant
Yes


2008
Derrick Rose
14
44.2
18.3
8
Russell Westbrook
No


2009
Blake Griffin
13
81.1
32.8
3
James Harden
No


2010
John Wall
11
44.5
24.1
2
Paul George
No


2011
Kyrie Irving
12
79.4
37.6
3
Jimmy Butler (Nephew #2)
No


2012
Anthony Davis
11
100.3
46.1
2
Dame Lillard
No


2013
Anthony Bennett
4
0.5
-1.3
50
GIannis Antetokounmpo
Yes


2014
Andrew Wiggins
9
26.3
3.0
18
Nikola Jokic
Maybe?


2015
Karl Anthony Towns
8
68.7
29.5
1
Towns
No


2016
Ben Simmons
5
32.6
14.2
3
Sabonis
No?


2017
Markelle Fultz
6
7.2
1.2
18
Jason Tatum
Maybe?


2018
Deandre Ayton
5
30.9
7.2
7
Luka Doncic
No


2019
Zion Williamson
3
14.2
6.6
2
Ja Morant
No


2020
Anthony Edwards
3
8.9
4.1
4
Tyrese Haliburton
No



So at most, I count only 5 busts in 31 years. That's pretty good. With that said, the #1 pick only ends up with the highest VORP 5 times as well, and 3 of them were truly generational, no brainer pick, talents in Shaq, Timmy and Lebron

To determine if a player was a bust or not, it was a rather subjective choice to say yes or no based on their year's played, career WS and VORP. Let me know if you disagree.

Interestingly, I did not realize how close Dirk was to Tim in terms of career WS and VORP. Dirk's were 206.3 and 84.8, respectively. Only Lebron is higher. This is largely a function of longevity though.

Was surprised that James Harden has a higher WS and VORP than Steph Curry (128/65.6) - which makes me question those metrics more than anything else tbh.

Anthony Bennett had the 50th worst VORP of the 2013 draft... this actually makes him sound better than he is. Only 51 players ever made the NBA from that draft. Ben McLemore is the only player worst from that draft.

Well, the theory is that Wemby falls in that category.

Has there ever been a guy so hyped as the #1 pick that didn't pan out? Off the top of my head, I can't think of one.

[GAustex]

The voice of the New Orleans Pelicans because Zion is am embarrassment and Ingram is always stoned.

Ingram is always very high

[scott]

Well, the theory is that Wemby falls in that category.

Has there ever been a guy so hyped as the #1 pick that didn't pan out? Off the top of my head, I can't think of one.

I certainly remember a lot of hype about Greg Oden... but not to this level, and of course his situation is a little different than just being bad at basketball.

[kobyz]

Lacking strength isn't the same as being soft. Wemby is extremely tough and competitive. It shows in the H2H domination he had of Chet a couple of years back and the French playoffs run he just had. Those games were tougher than anything Chet or this Murphy guy ever played on their lives.

he needs to be more decisive wanting to get the ball and play harder to get open and put himself in good situations

[baseline bum]

So at most, I count only 5 busts in 31 years. That's pretty good. With that said, the #1 pick only ends up with the highest VORP 5 times as well, and 3 of them were truly generational, no brainer pick, talents in Shaq, Timmy and Lebron


One of the busts, namely Oden, was a truly generational no brainer pick too. Ralph Sampson was another generational no brainer pick who could be argued was a bust considering he only had three good years. Injuries can still take down the most promising talents.

[baseline bum]

I certainly remember a lot of hype about Greg Oden... but not to this level, and of course his situation is a little different than just being bad at basketball.

Oden's one of those guys we heard about for years ever since he was like 15, the same way we did with LeBron and Wemby. He was wildly hyped as being the next David Robinson with a little bit of Shaq in his game. Oden was the clear cut #1 pick despite Durant putting up one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever seen and looking like an obvious HOF talent while at Texas. Until Wemby, Oden was easily the highest touted bigman prospect since Tim in 97.

[Mr. Body]

One of the busts, namely Oden, was a truly generational no brainer pick too. Ralph Sampson was another generational no brainer pick who could be argued was a bust considering he only had three good years. Injuries can still take down the most promising talents.

It's an age old debate. I don't think it's fair to call a player ruined by injuries a bust

[CorrectCrusader]

Was curious about this, and was interested in a Saturday morning research project, so I looked it up going back to 1990.



Year
Player
Years Played
WS
VORP
VORP Rank
Highest VORP
Bust?


1990
Derrick Coleman
15
64.3
22.3
3
Gary Payton
No


1991
Larry Johnson
10
69.7
22.0
4
Dikembe Mutombo
No


1992
Shaquille O'Neal
19
181.7
75.5
1
Shaq
No


1993
Chris Webber
15
84.7
42.1
1
Webber
No


1994
Glenn Robinson
11
39.8
13.5
7
Jason Kidd
No


1995
Joe Smith
16
60.3
3.0
15
Kevin Garnett
No


1996
Allen Iverson
14
99.0
49.6
3
Kobe Bryant
No


1997
Tim Duncan
19
206.4
91.1
1
Timmy
No


1998
Michael Olowokandi
9
2.5
-8.5
56
Dirk Nowitzki
Yes


1999
Elton Brand
17
109.6
37.3
5
Shawn Marion/Manu (Tie)
No


2000
Kenyon Martin
15
48
12.1
5
Michael Redd
No


2001
Kwame Brown
12
20.8
-1.3
45
Pau Gasol (TP9 is #2)
Yes?


2002
Yao Ming
8
65.9
20.7
3
Carlos Boozer
No


2003
Lebron James
20
255.1
146.6
1
Lebron
No


2004
Dwight Howard
18
141.7
39.0
2
Andre Iguodala
No


2005
Andrew Bogut
14
50.6
16.0
6
Chris Paul
No


2006
Andrea Bargnani
10
18.9
1.5
17
Kyle Lowry
Maybe?


2007
Greg Oden
3
7.3
0.8
23
Kevin Durant
Yes


2008
Derrick Rose
14
44.2
18.3
8
Russell Westbrook
No


2009
Blake Griffin
13
81.1
32.8
3
James Harden
No


2010
John Wall
11
44.5
24.1
2
Paul George
No


2011
Kyrie Irving
12
79.4
37.6
3
Jimmy Butler (Nephew #2)
No


2012
Anthony Davis
11
100.3
46.1
2
Dame Lillard
No


2013
Anthony Bennett
4
0.5
-1.3
50
GIannis Antetokounmpo
Yes


2014
Andrew Wiggins
9
26.3
3.0
18
Nikola Jokic
Maybe?


2015
Karl Anthony Towns
8
68.7
29.5
1
Towns
No


2016
Ben Simmons
5
32.6
14.2
3
Sabonis
No?


2017
Markelle Fultz
6
7.2
1.2
18
Jason Tatum
Maybe?


2018
Deandre Ayton
5
30.9
7.2
7
Luka Doncic
No


2019
Zion Williamson
3
14.2
6.6
2
Ja Morant
No


2020
Anthony Edwards
3
8.9
4.1
4
Tyrese Haliburton
No



So at most, I count only 5 busts in 31 years. That's pretty good. With that said, the #1 pick only ends up with the highest VORP 5 times as well, and 3 of them were truly generational, no brainer pick, talents in Shaq, Timmy and Lebron

To determine if a player was a bust or not, it was a rather subjective choice to say yes or no based on their year's played, career WS and VORP. Let me know if you disagree.

Interestingly, I did not realize how close Dirk was to Tim in terms of career WS and VORP. Dirk's were 206.3 and 84.8, respectively. Only Lebron is higher. This is largely a function of longevity though.

Was surprised that James Harden has a higher WS and VORP than Steph Curry (128/65.6) - which makes me question those metrics more than anything else tbh.

Anthony Bennett had the 50th worst VORP of the 2013 draft... this actually makes him sound better than he is. Only 51 players ever made the NBA from that draft. Ben McLemore is the only player worst from that draft.

Thanks for the write up. It seems like everyone knows generational talents when they see them though. Shaq, Tim, Lebron, everyone knew they were going to be that guy when they got to the NBA. People think the same about Vic today. So it seems, not every #1 pick is equal.

[Gagnrath]

Was curious about this, and was interested in a Saturday morning research project, so I looked it up going back to 1990.



Year
Player
Years Played
WS
VORP
VORP Rank
Highest VORP
Bust?


1990
Derrick Coleman
15
64.3
22.3
3
Gary Payton
No


1991
Larry Johnson
10
69.7
22.0
4
Dikembe Mutombo
No


1992
Shaquille O'Neal
19
181.7
75.5
1
Shaq
No


1993
Chris Webber
15
84.7
42.1
1
Webber
No


1994
Glenn Robinson
11
39.8
13.5
7
Jason Kidd
No


1995
Joe Smith
16
60.3
3.0
15
Kevin Garnett
No


1996
Allen Iverson
14
99.0
49.6
3
Kobe Bryant
No


1997
Tim Duncan
19
206.4
91.1
1
Timmy
No


1998
Michael Olowokandi
9
2.5
-8.5
56
Dirk Nowitzki
Yes


1999
Elton Brand
17
109.6
37.3
5
Shawn Marion/Manu (Tie)
No


2000
Kenyon Martin
15
48
12.1
5
Michael Redd
No


2001
Kwame Brown
12
20.8
-1.3
45
Pau Gasol (TP9 is #2)
Yes?


2002
Yao Ming
8
65.9
20.7
3
Carlos Boozer
No


2003
Lebron James
20
255.1
146.6
1
Lebron
No


2004
Dwight Howard
18
141.7
39.0
2
Andre Iguodala
No


2005
Andrew Bogut
14
50.6
16.0
6
Chris Paul
No


2006
Andrea Bargnani
10
18.9
1.5
17
Kyle Lowry
Maybe?


2007
Greg Oden
3
7.3
0.8
23
Kevin Durant
Yes


2008
Derrick Rose
14
44.2
18.3
8
Russell Westbrook
No


2009
Blake Griffin
13
81.1
32.8
3
James Harden
No


2010
John Wall
11
44.5
24.1
2
Paul George
No


2011
Kyrie Irving
12
79.4
37.6
3
Jimmy Butler (Nephew #2)
No


2012
Anthony Davis
11
100.3
46.1
2
Dame Lillard
No


2013
Anthony Bennett
4
0.5
-1.3
50
GIannis Antetokounmpo
Yes


2014
Andrew Wiggins
9
26.3
3.0
18
Nikola Jokic
Maybe?


2015
Karl Anthony Towns
8
68.7
29.5
1
Towns
No


2016
Ben Simmons
5
32.6
14.2
3
Sabonis
No?


2017
Markelle Fultz
6
7.2
1.2
18
Jason Tatum
Maybe?


2018
Deandre Ayton
5
30.9
7.2
7
Luka Doncic
No


2019
Zion Williamson
3
14.2
6.6
2
Ja Morant
No


2020
Anthony Edwards
3
8.9
4.1
4
Tyrese Haliburton
No



So at most, I count only 5 busts in 31 years. That's pretty good. With that said, the #1 pick only ends up with the highest VORP 5 times as well, and 3 of them were truly generational, no brainer pick, talents in Shaq, Timmy and Lebron

To determine if a player was a bust or not, it was a rather subjective choice to say yes or no based on their year's played, career WS and VORP. Let me know if you disagree.

Interestingly, I did not realize how close Dirk was to Tim in terms of career WS and VORP. Dirk's were 206.3 and 84.8, respectively. Only Lebron is higher. This is largely a function of longevity though.

Was surprised that James Harden has a higher WS and VORP than Steph Curry (128/65.6) - which makes me question those metrics more than anything else tbh.

Anthony Bennett had the 50th worst VORP of the 2013 draft... this actually makes him sound better than he is. Only 51 players ever made the NBA from that draft. Ben McLemore is the only player worst from that draft.

Harden is a case of a player who was in a good place talent and mentality wise being ruined by questionable input from those around him. (Agent-Management/Coaching/Media). The Hardin who went to the rockets was on the verge of being a all time player, good defense good team mentality and did a lot of the grit and grind things. He also made the smart basketball play the vast majority of the time. Now he's moving out from sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook, into Mike D'Antoni's run and gun defense doesn't matter with a green light to shoot. It earns him all star and mvp honors in a hurry and a couple of deep play-off runs as THE man, media blow up millions in endorsement and people wonder why he turned empty calories.

[Gagnrath]

I certainly remember a lot of hype about Greg Oden... but not to this level, and of course his situation is a little different than just being bad at basketball.

I was in Columbus ohio so we had a lot of Oden hype for 18+ months. Honestly from my view Oden hype seemed way bigger than wemby but a lot of that could have just been local. There was always rumors of knee issues at OSU then he got to the NBA and they exploded immediately and a double micro-fracture surgery that didn't go well. Of course part of that was probably whatever keeps the Blazers from having top end big men.

[KobesAchilles]

I remember Oden in college and watching Ohio St in the tourney. I think Durant was one in done in the tourney that year ( I could be wrong and mistaking him for LMA). Oden looked like a grown ass man at like 15 and when I first saw him I thought he was 30. But there were rumblings and rumors about his injury and him possibly being injury prone. And there were talks about this being another Bowie pick.

I also admit I saw waaaay more KD in college than I did Oden but to me, it was easy to see that KD should’ve been the first pick. I thought Portland was stupid immediately for passing on KD. A KD, LMA, Roy team would’ve been quite interesting tbh. But KD was such a unicorn in college that I just didn’t see anyway for him to fail to be an all star. I mean he was 7 feet tall and played like a guard. So who could stop that offensively? Turns out, nobody.

I think even if Oden wasn’t injured though his ceiling would be Brand. Not a bad player but not an all timer

[TD 21]

Oden's one of those guys we heard about for years ever since he was like 15, the same way we did with LeBron and Wemby. He was wildly hyped as being the next David Robinson with a little bit of Shaq in his game. Oden was the clear cut #1 pick despite Durant putting up one of the most impressive freshman seasons ever seen and looking like an obvious HOF talent while at Texas. Until Wemby, Oden was easily the highest touted bigman prospect since Tim in 97.

I wouldn't classify Oden, who was clearly on his way to being an All-Star - All-NBA caliber player, as a bust. That word is reserved for someone who either sucked/s (Olowokandi, Brown, Bargnani, Bennett) or completely underwhelmed/s, relatively speaking (Smith, Martin, Bogut, Wiggins, Fultz).

That said, Davis was more hyped. He's become Duncan-esque: Either forgotten about or underappreciated in various respects.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't classify Oden, who was clearly on his way to being an All-Star - All-NBA caliber player, as a bust. That word is reserved for someone who either sucked/s (Olowokandi, Brown, Bargnani, Bennett) or completely underwhelmed/s, relatively speaking (Smith, Martin, Bogut, Wiggins, Fultz).

That said, Davis was more hyped. He's become Duncan-esque: Either forgotten about or underappreciated in various respects.

Davis was never close to as hyped as Oden was. Davis wasn't even really known until his senior year of high school while Oden was as well known as LeBron when they were in high school. Davis was considered a really high end prospect but not the league changing player Oden was.

[TD 21]

Davis was never close to as hyped as Oden was. Davis wasn't even really known until his senior year of high school while Oden was as well known as LeBron when they were in high school. Davis was considered a really high end prospect but not the franchise changing player Oden was.

Oden may have been hyped longer because Davis was more of a late bloomer height wise, but by their college/draft season, the latter was more hyped.

Davis was thought to have a ceiling of best player in the league (and if not for James' unparalleled longevity and his own body breaking down early, he might have hit it); I never heard that about Oden.

Comparing the best draft prospects in (recent) history - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37996676/best-draft-prospect-bracket-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-wnba)

[baseline bum]

Oden may have been hyped longer because Davis was more of a late bloomer height wise, but by their college/draft season, the latter was more hyped.

Davis was thought to have a ceiling of best player in the league. I never heard that about Oden.

Comparing the best draft prospects in (recent) history - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/37996676/best-draft-prospect-bracket-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-wnba)

That's some revisionist history bullshit not putting Oden on that list.

[baseline bum]

I remember Oden in college and watching Ohio St in the tourney. I think Durant was one in done in the tourney that year ( I could be wrong and mistaking him for LMA). Oden looked like a grown ass man at like 15 and when I first saw him I thought he was 30. But there were rumblings and rumors about his injury and him possibly being injury prone. And there were talks about this being another Bowie pick.


Meh his injury was a broken wrist.

[TD 21]

That's some revisionist history bullshit not putting Oden on that list.

I've never heard of the hype of Johnson or Olajuwon being at an all time level, but wasn't around to argue otherwise. The rest, I've either heard ad nauseam or been around for and I think it's accurate.

What hurts Oden's cause was Durant being an all time #2.

[baseline bum]

What hurts Oden's cause was Durant being an all time #2.

It didn't hurt Oden's case at all at the time. He was David Robinson Part 2 and was the unquestioned #1 and unquestioned most sought after big since Duncan. And even then that's comparing Duncan after four years to Oden after one in college. Duncan wouldn't have been the #1 pick until after his sophomore year.

[TD 21]

It didn't hurt Oden's case at all at the time. He was David Robinson Part 2 and was the unquestioned #1 and unquestioned most sought after big since Duncan. And even then that's comparing Duncan after four years to Oden after one in college. Duncan wouldn't have been the #1 pick until after his sophomore year.

Mostly agree, but you'd always hear Durant's name mentioned. That wasn't really the case with the others.

To me, the bigger snub is O'Neal.

[baseline bum]

All true, but you'd always hear Durant's name mentioned. That wasn't really the case with the others.

To me, the bigger snub is O'Neal.

I can't really call Shaq a prospect when he was drafted. After three years at LSU it was crystal clear you were getting a finished product HOF player with him the same way you did with Duncan, Robinson, Ewing, Abdul-Jabbar, Walton, etc. Though Ewing's knee injuries kept him from living up to his talent.

[KobesAchilles]

Meh his injury was a broken wrist.
Maybe I’m remembering it incorrectly. It was like 15 years ago, but I swear there was a lot of be careful of drafting a big man in Portland talk. And Durant could be an all-timer. I know there was ofc the talk of him being a great big man and an all-timer. But idk why I specifically remember them reminiscing about taking Bowie over MJ and how this could be another moment comparable to that

[baseline bum]

Maybe I’m remembering it incorrectly. It was like 15 years ago, but I swear there was a lot of be careful of drafting a big man in Portland talk. And Durant could be an all-timer. I know there was ofc the talk of him being a great big man and an all-timer. But idk why I specifically remember them reminiscing about taking Bowie over MJ and how this could be another moment comparable to that

I think most of that talk came from Durant being a guy who would have gone #1 almost any other year.

[Seventyniner]

Harden is a case of a player who was in a good place talent and mentality wise being ruined by questionable input from those around him. (Agent-Management/Coaching/Media). The Hardin who went to the rockets was on the verge of being a all time player, good defense good team mentality and did a lot of the grit and grind things. He also made the smart basketball play the vast majority of the time. Now he's moving out from sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook, into Mike D'Antoni's run and gun defense doesn't matter with a green light to shoot. It earns him all star and mvp honors in a hurry and a couple of deep play-off runs as THE man, media blow up millions in endorsement and people wonder why he turned empty calories.

Harden and Nash's individual success under D'Antoni compared to other coaches says more about D'Antoni than Harden and Nash imo.

[Knoxxx]

Murphy WHO!?!

Never heard of him actually…

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

good

[Rocalcio]

These guys are going to have dozens of head to head matchups in the coming years. Can we stop just pointing to one international U19 game as meaningful evidence? :lol

That’s all we have so far, we’ll pointing the next h2H when they happen.

[spurraider21]

That’s all we have so far, well pointing the next h2H when they happen.
Using a one game sample from years ago isn’t really something I’d use at all as meaningful evidence imho

[exstatic]

Using a one game sample from years ago isn’t really something I’d use at all as meaningful evidence imho

It’s
All
We
Have
Right
Now.

[J_Paco]

Well, the theory is that Wemby falls in that category.

Has there ever been a guy so hyped as the #1 pick that didn't pan out? Off the top of my head, I can't think of one.

Greg Oden, but that was mostly do to his knees turning to dust. Dude could've been an all-time great defensive center had he remained healthy.

[DAF86]

Greg Oden, but that was mostly do to his knees turning to dust. Dude could've been an all-time great defensive center had he remained healthy.

I feel like he wasn't hyped as a "generational talent" like guys like Shaq, Timmy, Lebron and now Wemby did.

[stnick2261]

I feel like he wasn't hyped as a "generational talent" like guys like Shaq, Timmy, Lebron and now Wemby did.

There was talk about whether we should trade Duncan for Oden to "re-start" the championship window. The hype was definitely there, his knees just couldn't keep up.

[spurraider21]

It’s
All
We
Have
Right
Now.
its not worth using, even now

[baseline bum]

I feel like he wasn't hyped as a "generational talent" like guys like Shaq, Timmy, Lebron and now Wemby did.

From 2005-07 he absolutely was. You'd pretty much have to be to be the absolute consensus #1 pick over Durant.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Well, the theory is that Wemby falls in that category.

Has there ever been a guy so hyped as the #1 pick that didn't pan out? Off the top of my head, I can't think of one.

Greg Oden was pretty hyped...not to the Wemby level of being a generational talent. But he was certainly at the Zion level of hype.

[Rocalcio]

It’s
All
We
Have
Right
Now.


Thanks :lol

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Murphy WHO!?!

Never heard of him actually…

I knew he was on the Pelicans but I, too, had to google him to acquaint myself to his accomplishments. Two years in the league, drafted 17th. Nothing spectacular on his resume.

[Knoxxx]

I knew he was on the Pelicans but I, too, had to google him to acquaint myself to his accomplishments. Two years in the league, drafted 17th. Nothing spectacular on his resume.

We appreciate the bulletin board material!

[J_Paco]

I feel like he wasn't hyped as a "generational talent" like guys like Shaq, Timmy, Lebron and now Wemby did.

It's been mentioned that he was the "next can't miss, great big man" before Davis, Williamson or now Wemby.

And defensively he was getting comparisons not to Hakeem, Timmy, or David but to Bill Russell. Who in my opinion is the greatest defensive player in NBA history, so the hype was there and it was real.