Wow...The woman who sued Spurs and Joshua Primo is still with the Spurs???

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOS8sfIcz1o

From the top 2nd comment:


Dr. Cauthen is a highly respected professional in her field. She was hired by the team to work with players, monitoring their mental health, by evaluating both their on and off-court stress management skills.

DeMar DeRozan’s feedback helped Pop and the front office (PATFO) recognize the importance of this aspect of today’s NBA. Spurs players speak highly of Cauthen, and I would argue that she held more value to the organization than Primo.

In fact, once the lawsuit was settled and Primo was pushed out of the picture, she immediately came back to the team in the same role, and still holds that position.

Continually helping the current players was more important to her than the one she couldn’t help.

Primo was definitely the problem.

:lol I thought the bridge is f-ing burned already

[exstatic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOS8sfIcz1o

From the top 2nd comment:



:lol I thought the bridge is f-ing burned already

When you report someone for an HR issue, you basically become un-fireable. Any termination action would be considered retribution, and that would be another actionable offense.

[widowmaker]

Makes you question if anything actually happened. First why take a pay out? Of somebody sexually abused someone else I would expect the perp to get charged and sent to prison. Second, wouldn’t she be “traumatized” by the situation and move on maybe take a break? Im not siding with Primo but you see it too many times, a woman makes a claim similar to this situation and all they are looking for is money and not sending the guy to prison where they should belong if something as such happened.

[K...]

Makes you question if anything actually happened. First why take a pay out? Of somebody sexually abused someone else I would expect the perp to get charged and sent to prison. Second, wouldn’t she be “traumatized” by the situation and move on maybe take a break? Im not siding with Primo but you see it too many times, a woman makes a claim similar to this situation and all they are looking for is money and not sending the guy to prison where they should belong if something as such happened.


This is very very untrue.

[K...]

There's always a clumsy question to victims “whyd you stay/come back if it was so bad“.

Anyway primo is gone, apologies got sent,.$$ got sent, and busby is representing paxston

[ChumpDumper]

There's always a clumsy question to victims “whyd you stay/come back if it was so bad“.

Anyway primo is gone, apologies got sent,.$$ got sent, and busby is representing paxston

Wouldn't it be better since Primo is gone?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's strange that people are surprised or only think it is for ulterior motives that the Spurs would keep her on and take responsibility for something abhorrent that happened on their watch. You guys ever listen to the powers that be in the organization?

[Leetonidas]

Makes you question if anything actually happened. First why take a pay out? Of somebody sexually abused someone else I would expect the perp to get charged and sent to prison. Second, wouldn’t she be “traumatized” by the situation and move on maybe take a break? Im not siding with Primo but you see it too many times, a woman makes a claim similar to this situation and all they are looking for is money and not sending the guy to prison where they should belong if something as such happened.

Lol

[MultiTroll]

busby is representing paxston

[BacktoBasics]

It's strange that people are surprised or only think it is for ulterior motives that the Spurs would keep her on and take responsibility for something abhorrent that happened on their watch. You guys ever listen to the powers that be in the organization?

My problem here is that the issue was essentially her responsibility to mitigate. A serial flasher goes the team psychologist and flashes her. Instead of addressing the flashing problem she deals with him flashing her like 9 more times. This is not playing out how it should with her being the medical professional and all. Now I understand she escalated the problem to the higher ups and that's most likely where the organization failed.

But its like a Doctor having a patient that is abusing drugs. The patient goes to this Doctor for the drugs and the Doctor continues to prescribe the drugs. Then goes to the medical practices front office to tell them "hey this guy I'm prescribing drugs too is really just abusing the drugs, do something". Then neither do anything. Makes no sense. Stop prescribing the drugs. IE escalate this flashers care so that the core issue is addressed. She essentially failed to provide or find adequate mental healthcare for this kid.

[ChumpDumper]

My problem here is that the issue was essentially her responsibility to mitigate. A serial flasher goes the team psychologist and flashes her. Instead of addressing the flashing problem she deals with him flashing her like 9 more times. This is not playing out how it should with her being the medical professional and all. Now I understand she escalated the problem to the higher ups and that's most likely where the organization failed.

But its like a Doctor having a patient that is abusing drugs. The patient goes to this Doctor for the drugs and the Doctor continues to prescribe the drugs. Then goes to the medical practices front office to tell them "hey this guy I'm prescribing drugs too is really just abusing the drugs, do something". Then neither do anything. Makes no sense. Stop prescribing the drugs. IE escalate this flashers care so that the core issue is addressed. She essentially failed to provide or find adequate mental healthcare for this kid.

She's a mental health professional trying to deal with what seems to be at least partly a mental health issue. Seems fairly clear she tried to treat it with the patient privately and it didn't work. Once they Spurs were informed they were obligated to act in a timely manner, which it looks like they didn't do.

[exstatic]

Makes you question if anything actually happened. First why take a pay out? Of somebody sexually abused someone else I would expect the perp to get charged and sent to prison. Second, wouldn’t she be “traumatized” by the situation and move on maybe take a break? Im not siding with Primo but you see it too many times, a woman makes a claim similar to this situation and all they are looking for is money and not sending the guy to prison where they should belong if something as such happened.

Women have learned over time that almost never happens, and if they make it a criminal matter, THEY get put on trial, so they go the tort law route and sue them. You cannot bring up a woman's sexual history in a lawsuit action.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My problem here is that the issue was essentially her responsibility to mitigate. A serial flasher goes the team psychologist and flashes her. Instead of addressing the flashing problem she deals with him flashing her like 9 more times. This is not playing out how it should with her being the medical professional and all. Now I understand she escalated the problem to the higher ups and that's most likely where the organization failed.

But its like a Doctor having a patient that is abusing drugs. The patient goes to this Doctor for the drugs and the Doctor continues to prescribe the drugs. Then goes to the medical practices front office to tell them "hey this guy I'm prescribing drugs too is really just abusing the drugs, do something". Then neither do anything. Makes no sense. Stop prescribing the drugs. IE escalate this flashers care so that the core issue is addressed. She essentially failed to provide or find adequate mental healthcare for this kid.

So your issue is that she didn't handle it fast enough? I think you really need to look into the behavior of people that are victims of sexual abuse because that type of thing is not uncommon.

[Spurs Homer]

Seems like the spurs just followed the law…
Getting rid of her after the complaint would help her in a “retaliation” lawsuit so they followed the law which is that once a sexual offense is reported the employer must show that it has taken steps to address the issue.

Primo was let go so that adresses the main issue.

She should not suffer further consequences for reporting the issue. Spurs acted appropriately.

As for her “solving” primos issue, not sure that she is responsible for a perp/offenders’ behavior or criminal action-
as that gets complicated and if she did not feel safe around primo or felt threatened in further contact

that would absolve any responsibility she had to primo or the spurs.

Im no lawyer but this is pretty standard and any lawyers here could correct me if i am off but it is not that much in the weeds - its pretty simple IMO.

[Rocalcio]

When you report someone for an HR issue, you basically become un-fireable. Any termination action would be considered retribution, and that would be another actionable offense.

There is a difference between reporting an issue to the FO of the franchise you work for and suing this franchise.

[widowmaker]

This is very very untrue.

So people that commit sexual assault shouldn’t go to prison?

[widowmaker]

Women have learned over time that almost never happens, and if they make it a criminal matter, THEY get put on trial, so they go the tort law route and sue them. You cannot bring up a woman's sexual history in a lawsuit action.

Ive heard of several sexual predators go to prison, at least here in the US. I don’t know where you live.

[widowmaker]

Every thing becomes a debate on spurstalk lmao. My personal opinion is that women need to send sexual predators to prison and stop looking for a payout.

[TekXX]

Some deviant flashed her, she reported it and he got sent away, why should she quit if she doesn't want to?

[exstatic]

There is a difference between reporting an issue to the FO of the franchise you work for and suing this franchise.

Yes. She did the first, and when there was no response, she did the second.

[K...]

So people that commit sexual assault shouldn’t go to prison?

No, theycops dont investigate it unless its clear. They dont care. Its a big issue that comes up often. They dont test DNA. Fwiw i am anti sex assault. But i would never tell a victim to call the cops. Call an attorney first

[widowmaker]

No, theycops dont investigate it unless its clear. They dont care. Its a big issue that comes up often. They dont test DNA. Fwiw i am anti sex assault. But i would never tell a victim to call the cops. Call an attorney first


Ok cool I don’t agree with you but ok.

[exstatic]

Every thing becomes a debate on spurstalk lmao. My personal opinion is that women need to send sexual predators to prison and stop looking for a payout.

They’re not looking for a payout, they’re looking for their day in court that doesn’t involve putting their sexual history on trial.

[widowmaker]

They’re not looking for a payout, they’re looking for their day in court that doesn’t involve putting their sexual history on trial.

I never mentioned anything about sexual history, but ok cool.

[exstatic]

I never mentioned anything about sexual history, but ok cool.

That’s what happens when the woman presses charges, and the case goes to criminal court.

[widowmaker]

That’s what happens when the woman presses charges, and the case goes to criminal court.


Ok I don’t agree with you. Have a good day.

[BacktoBasics]

She's a mental health professional trying to deal with what seems to be at least partly a mental health issue. Seems fairly clear she tried to treat it with the patient privately and it didn't work. Once they Spurs were informed they were obligated to act in a timely manner, which it looks like they didn't do.Yeah I agree.


So your issue is that she didn't handle it fast enough? I think you really need to look into the behavior of people that are victims of sexual abuse because that type of thing is not uncommon.I completely understand your point and typically I’m in harmony with this belief. I’m not a fan of victim blaming either. I just think this situation is different and I’m less inclined to look at her as a victim. I’m fully aware that won’t be a popular opinion.

If this lady was a doctor for someone who had violent tendencies and a habit of physical assault I don’t believe a good doctor would allow themselves to be assaulted 9 times. They’d see after the first or second time that the care they were equipped to provide wasn’t going to meet the demands of the patient.

She never should have allowed herself to be flashed 9 times. She was specifically and directly given this job to mitigate mental health problems and then allowed herself to be victimized by someone with mental health problems that she was hired to treat.

I’m sorry but that’s a professional failure.

But maybe she did go to the front office early on and informed them that she wasn’t equipped to handle his issues to the degree that it was. We’ll probably never know that.

The whole situation doesn’t pass the sniff test and bringing her back seems even fishier.

[exstatic]

Yeah I agree.

I completely understand your point and typically I’m in harmony with this belief. I’m not a fan of victim blaming either. I just think this situation is different and I’m less inclined to look at her as a victim. I’m fully aware that won’t be a popular opinion.

If this lady was a doctor for someone who had violent tendencies and a habit of physical assault I don’t believe a good doctor would allow themselves to be assaulted 9 times. They’d see after the first or second time that the care they were equipped to provide wasn’t going to meet the demands of the patient.

She never should have allowed herself to be flashed 9 times. She was specifically and directly given this job to mitigate mental health problems and then allowed herself to be victimized by someone with mental health problems that she was hired to treat.

I’m sorry but that’s a professional failure.

But maybe she did go to the front office early on and informed them that she wasn’t equipped to handle his issues to the degree that it was. We’ll probably never know that.

The whole situation doesn’t pass the sniff test and bringing her back seems even fishier.

The FO didn't really pull their heads out of their asses until after further incidents at Las Vegas and Minneapolis. I'm not sure she ever left, so 'bringing her back' may not be the right terminology, and termination would be viewed as reprisal, and another court case.

[koriwhat]

I don’t believe a good doctor would allow themselves to be assaulted 9 times. They’d see after the first or second time that the care they were equipped to provide wasn’t going to meet the demands of the patient.

She never should have allowed herself to be flashed 9 times. She was specifically and directly given this job to mitigate mental health problems and then allowed herself to be victimized by someone with mental health problems that she was hired to treat.

I’m sorry but that’s a professional failure.

:tu

[Spurs Homer]

There is a difference between reporting an issue to the FO of the franchise you work for and suing this franchise.

Im not up on all the stuff that led to her filing a suit - but most reputable attorneys will not take the case unless they feel it is winnable. It would NOT be winnable if she ran to a lawyer at the first little ripple of bad behavior.

Most lawsuits happen when an employee - goes in good faith and reports the incidents and is met by either silence or retaliation or is ignored. Eventually a person goes to a good lawyer and the good lawyer will advise the person to NOT QUIT, document every incident and CONTINUE reporting the bad behavior/incidents and then and ONLY THEN will the lawyer deem the case worthwhile (if the employer acts in bad faith)

this talk about "women just go after rich guys for money" is pretty ignorant in my experience and is more a "guy talking point" than anything based on facts.

[ChumpDumper]

She never should have allowed herself to be flashed 9 times. She was specifically and directly given this job to mitigate mental health problems and then allowed herself to be victimized by someone with mental health problems that she was hired to treat. I guess. If your job is to actually help a player to remain on the team and you think you can possibly achieve that without notifying the Spurs -- which means immediate termination of that player -- what's the magic number?

[rjv]

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[BacktoBasics]

I guess. If your job is to actually help a player to remain on the team and you think you can possibly achieve that without notifying the Spurs -- which means immediate termination of that player -- what's the magic number?

That’s a fair point but as a medical professional her job wouldn’t be the player’s employment or the team retaining its player. It’s the mental health and treatment of the patient.

[ChumpDumper]

That’s a fair point but as a medical professional her job wouldn’t be the player’s employment or the team retaining its player. It’s the mental health and treatment of the patient.The only reason he's a patient is because he's an employee of the San Antonio Spurs and it's nominally the best interest of the patient to continue to be employed by the San Antonio Spurs. I'm not seeing the distinction here.

[BacktoBasics]

The only reason he's a patient is because he's an employee of the San Antonio Spurs and it's nominally the best interest of the patient to continue to be employed by the San Antonio Spurs. I'm not seeing the distinction here.

I would say something along the lines of Hippocratic Oath but that’s not say your point wouldn’t carry weight.

[ChumpDumper]

I would say something along the lines of Hippocratic Oath but that’s not say your point wouldn’t carry weight.
I'd say the oath or whatever Texas doctors pledge is one reason the behavior was tolerated as long as it was. It makes the health and well-being of the patient the priority.

[BacktoBasics]

I'd say the oath or whatever Texas doctors pledge is one reason the behavior was tolerated as long as it was. It makes the health and well-being of the patient the priority.

If that were true than the incidents would be part of treatment not a cause for her to victimize herself and litigate/settle etc.

[koriwhat]

If that were true than the incidents would be part of treatment not a cause for her to victimize herself and litigate/settle etc.

Obviously CD is ok with sexual assault and excuses it to the measures he already has been. Weird flex but ok.

[JPB]

She's a mental health professional trying to deal with what seems to be at least partly a mental health issue. Seems fairly clear she tried to treat it with the patient privately and it didn't work. Once they Spurs were informed they were obligated to act in a timely manner, which it looks like they didn't do.


So your issue is that she didn't handle it fast enough? I think you really need to look into the behavior of people that are victims of sexual abuse because that type of thing is not uncommon.


Not defending Primo, he had to go, but B2B has a point here...The guy flashes his D 8 times, then the 9th time, that's when she decides to go see the spurs so they do something because THAT was really one time too much, before deciding to sue them...

How about talking to the spurs the first time if it's that traumatasing and abusing for her (which I defnitely believe it can be)... To try to fix that? Ok, but that means it's not that traumatising if you wait another 8 times. Afraid to lose your job? Then why did you report him ultimately? And you're still there.

Hell, in a way you could even see Primo considering that as a validation and encouragement to continue since she didn't stop him before... "I'm flashing my stuff to this woman, a psychologsit at that, she doesn't report me. Let's continue..." She's the older pro, he's a (obviously deranged) kid. Primo is to blame ofc, but I'm not sure she handled the situation properly (but still cashed in the process)...

[ChumpDumper]

If that were true than the incidents would be part of treatment not a cause for her to victimize herself and litigate/settle etc.

No, the criminal offenses were never part of any treatment. That's not how it works. The behavior was a symptom to be treated.

[BacktoBasics]

No, the criminal offenses were never part of any treatment. That's not how it works.

The incidents with her? I don’t think we know that for sure.

Obviously his other incidents were actual crimes. That alone would give me the belief that she was treating him. These were apparently known incidents.

[ChumpDumper]

The incidents with her? I don’t think we know that for sure.I never saw any denial from Primo. You have to be really jaded to just think she's lying to make a buck.

Crimes against other women aren't part of any treatment either.

[BacktoBasics]

I never saw any denial from Primo. You have to be really jaded to just think she's lying to make a buck.

Crimes against other women aren't part of any treatment either.

That’s not necessarily what I’m saying. But it doesn’t add up. There was clearly a disconnect somewhere and she absolutely failed at her job. Perhaps it was a collective team failure as well.

[ChumpDumper]

That’s not necessarily what I’m saying. But it doesn’t add up. There was clearly a disconnect somewhere and she absolutely failed at her job. Perhaps it was a collective team failure as well.Of course it adds up.

She tried to treat him without escalating to management because her priority is the patient. It didn't work so she escalated to management.

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously CD is ok with sexual assault and excuses it to the measures he already has been. Weird flex but ok.

Go fuck yourself, calftats.

[Chinook]

A lot of times victims do things that "put them in position" to be victimized. Folks aren't perfect. The psychologist indeed does seem to have made some mistakes. But from what we've heard, she didn't do anything that justified what Primo is accused of doing to her. Now Primo's lawyer suggested the story might be more complicated, but we never saw that play out. There are quite a few touchpoints here that make this situation complicated. But the evidence available points to Primo being a fucking predator, and I'm happier that she got him out of the organization than I am upset that it took her a bit to do it. Hopefully this knowledge will kill the random hopes some have that Primo is a Spur again.

That said, it wasn't a given she'd be back. Supposedly, her contract wasn't renewed long before she sued. This isn't the case where an employee filed an HR complaint and kept her job after the process played out. I imagine her getting her job back was part of the settlement, whether in a negative sense (threatening to sue for retaliation even if her case wasn't the strongest) or positive (both sides thought it would make sense to work together to come up with a solution to prevent this from happening again). I did think that latter sense was very possible as all this was playing out, but it could well be a PR spin for her sort of Udonis Hasleming her way to a steady salary for the foreseeable future. I'm curious as to her effectiveness in her role. On one hand, I assume she's qualified. But on the other, she was a contractor whom the team let go and presumably hired another to replace her.

[Rocalcio]

Yes. She did the first, and when there was no response, she did the second.

Sure, I was just explaining why it was weird she was still working in the organization

[scott]

Not defending Primo, he had to go, but B2B has a point here...The guy flashes his D 8 times, then the 9th time, that's when she decides to go see the spurs so they do something because THAT was really one time too much, before deciding to sue them...

How about talking to the spurs the first time if it's that traumatasing and abusing for her (which I defnitely believe it can be)... To try to fix that? Ok, but that means it's not that traumatising if you wait another 8 times. Afraid to lose your job? Then why did you report him ultimately? And you're still there.

Hell, in a way you could even see Primo considering that as a validation and encouragement to continue since she didn't stop him before... "I'm flashing my stuff to this woman, a psychologsit at that, she doesn't report me. Let's continue..." She's the older pro, he's a (obviously deranged) kid. Primo is to blame ofc, but I'm not sure she handled the situation properly (but still cashed in the process)...

I believe a crux of the complaint was that she did just that (maybe not the first time, but definitely before the 9th time) and certain members of SS&E ignored her. Since this case got settled, we'll never see that allegation litigated, but I don't think it is a fair representation to say that she didn't do this.

[scott]

A lot of times victims do things that "put them in position" to be victimized. Folks aren't perfect. The psychologist indeed does seem to have made some mistakes. But from what we've heard, she didn't do anything that justified what Primo is accused of doing to her. Now Primo's lawyer suggested the story might be more complicated, but we never saw that play out. There are quite a few touchpoints here that make this situation complicated. But the evidence available points to Primo being a fucking predator, and I'm happier that she got him out of the organization than I am upset that it took her a bit to do it. Hopefully this knowledge will kill the random hopes some have that Primo is a Spur again.

That said, it wasn't a given she'd be back. Supposedly, her contract wasn't renewed long before she sued. This isn't the case where an employee filed an HR complaint and kept her job after the process played out. I imagine her getting her job back was part of the settlement, whether in a negative sense (threatening to sue for retaliation even if her case wasn't the strongest) or positive (both sides thought it would make sense to work together to come up with a solution to prevent this from happening again). I did think that latter sense was very possible as all this was playing out, but it could well be a PR spin for her sort of Udonis Hasleming her way to a steady salary for the foreseeable future. I'm curious as to her effectiveness in her role. On one hand, I assume she's qualified. But on the other, she was a contractor whom the team let go and presumably hired another to replace her.

Part of her complaint was the she told certain members of SS&E and nothing happened. It's quite possible that those members were in some way disciplined (even if just assigning some training) and senior execs (Pop, RC, Holt Jr) were apologetic and sympatric and wanted her back.

[Russ]

Part of her complaint was the she told certain members of SS&E and nothing happened. It's quite possible that those members were in some way disciplined (even if just assigning some training) and senior execs (Pop, RC, Holt Jr) were apologetic and sympatric and wanted her back.

Substitute "in fear of a retaliation case" for "apologetic and sympathetic" and you're right on.

[Wu36]

He's no longer a spurs player. He was cut, to my recollection the players union never even jumped in to help him.

[The Truth #6]

To me, it's unclear how the psychologist and the team handle HIPAA, private medical information. For the sessions to work, is she instructed to keep all her notes private so as to protect the privacy of the players, so they actually feel compelled and trusted to engage in therapy? Or, is it the opposite where the team is considered part of the therapy process since this is all perhaps not just really therapy but considered ways to improve performance on the court? Either way, there's definitely an interpretation where she did not tell them early on, either because she didn't want to look like she was doing a bad job and didn't want to get fired, or there was some legal barrier to her sharing. The fact that his crime is what she is treating is what adds to the confusion and debate over the timeline.

[JeffDuncan]

To me, it's unclear how the psychologist and the team handle HIPAA, private medical information. …


The players sign a waiver permitting the team to have access to any medical information relevant to their participation with the team. This is part of the standard NBA contract.


… there's definitely an interpretation where she did not tell them early on, …


It was reported, and I don’t think it was ever denied, that she did inform Brian Wright early on. He said he would take care of it. He did not.



… The fact that his crime is what she is treating is what adds to the confusion and debate over the timeline.


That’s incorrect. She was, and is, employed as the team’s sports psychologist. Her job is to assist with any psychological problems that can affect a player’s basketball performance. She was not employed to deal with players’ psychological problems in general.

She was seeing all of the Spurs’ players, btw. I have not heard of any complaints about any other players. Apparently, the sessions with the others went as they should, and only Primo was a serious problem.

It’s well worth noting that when she reported Primo’s misbehavior to Wright, it put Wright in a bind. Primo was Wright’s draft pick, and it was a very unlikely and unexpected draft pick, as people here will recall. Then, Primo was being promoted as the Spurs point guard of the future, (which again looked unlikely to the outside observer.) Wright undoubtedly didn’t want to look like he had made a stupid blunder by reaching so far with that draft pick. It created an obstacle against Wright taking action when the matter was first reported to him.

[MultiTroll]

It was reported, and I don’t think it was ever denied, that she did inform Brian Wright early on. He said he would take care of it. He did not.
That’s incorrect. She was, and is, employed as the team’s sports psychologist. Her job is to assist with any psychological problems that can affect a player’s basketball performance. She was not employed to deal with players’ psychological problems in general.

It’s well worth noting that when she reported Primo’s misbehavior to Wright, it put Wright in a bind. Primo was Wright’s draft pick, and it was a very unlikely and unexpected draft pick, as people here will recall. Then, Primo was being promoted as the Spurs point guard of the future, (which again looked unlikely to the outside observer.) Wright undoubtedly didn’t want to look like he had made a stupid blunder by reaching so far with that draft pick. It created an obstacle against Wright taking action when the matter was first reported to him.
Good points all.
However is it possible that Wright did report above, and the Good Ole Boys club sat on it?

Don't know that we can presume Wright sat on it, although a total fit for the reasons you posted.

[ismael-robert]

I don't kno that she's still employed. I think part of settlement was that she go back and show them how to clean house and ensure this never happens again. But looking at her LinkedIn and business pages she operates like two companies so she may have voluntarily moved on to focus on those

[John B]

Charges were dropped. The NBA didn’t suspend Primo. I’d be happy to see him back

[KingKev]

The saving grace here is that Primo wasn’t actually very good at basketball. If he has something somebody will give him a look rest assured.

[BacktoBasics]

The saving grace here is that Primo wasn’t actually very good at basketball. If he has something somebody will give him a look rest assured.

He certainly didn’t seem like a good dribble heavy distributing PG. I think he would have done well as an off ball scorer.

[The Truth #6]

The players sign a waiver permitting the team to have access to any medical information relevant to their participation with the team. This is part of the standard NBA contract.




It was reported, and I don’t think it was ever denied, that she did inform Brian Wright early on. He said he would take care of it. He did not.





That’s incorrect. She was, and is, employed as the team’s sports psychologist. Her job is to assist with any psychological problems that can affect a player’s basketball performance. She was not employed to deal with players’ psychological problems in general.

She was seeing all of the Spurs’ players, btw. I have not heard of any complaints about any other players. Apparently, the sessions with the others went as they should, and only Primo was a serious problem.

It’s well worth noting that when she reported Primo’s misbehavior to Wright, it put Wright in a bind. Primo was Wright’s draft pick, and it was a very unlikely and unexpected draft pick, as people here will recall. Then, Primo was being promoted as the Spurs point guard of the future, (which again looked unlikely to the outside observer.) Wright undoubtedly didn’t want to look like he had made a stupid blunder by reaching so far with that draft pick. It created an obstacle against Wright taking action when the matter was first reported to him.

Good thoughts. I've gone back and forth in trying to figure out what her sessions actually focus on. But yeah, I would sort of assume it's more about anxiety at the free-throw line and shit like that. But I still think there could be some pressure on the psychologist not to report things, because she really likes her job, and doesn't want to seem to be part of a problem, especially with a player they are prioritizing.

[cd98]

Well, from her side of the story, she told him to stop, he didn't, so she went to the Spurs upper management, and they did nothing, so she filed suit and that stopped the problem. What if she is really good at her job? Or what if Josh Primo really is a problem? I mean, the Spurs invested draft capital and millions on Primo and then released him on a dime after they got facts that we will never know. I mean, some people think Elvis is still alive, others doubt that a man has walked on the moon, and some people still think Josh Primo is a good player and that the Spurs are going to re-sign him after enough time passes.

The truth is that if he continued the behavior after they rehired them, including if he did it on the road or in any capacity as a Spurs player, the organization would get hit with another, and more expensive lawsuit. He is not worth the risk. I think we have a better shot at Big Foot being our starting point guard than Josh Primo.

[Knoxxx]

A lot of “blame the victim” sentiment throughout the posts.

[exstatic]

A lot of “blame the victim” sentiment throughout the posts.

Or the much more common 'blame the bitch' sentiment.

[BacktoBasics]

Good thoughts. I've gone back and forth in trying to figure out what her sessions actually focus on. But yeah, I would sort of assume it's more about anxiety at the free-throw line and shit like that. But I still think there could be some pressure on the psychologist not to report things, because she really likes her job, and doesn't want to seem to be part of a problem, especially with a player they are prioritizing.

All that would tell me is that she’s not truly a leading professional in her expertise. Now I’m not saying it’s not true. Your point could be spot on. But it would go against literally everything she would have learned abd been trained to do about properly treating a mental health problem.

[BacktoBasics]

A lot of “blame the victim” sentiment throughout the posts.

I don’t think that’s accurate. I’m adamantly opposed to victim blaming. In this case she wasn’t just an office secretary or run of the mill employee. Or even an executive. She was literally the team psychologist put in place to provide mental healthcare for the players. So when directly faced with a mental health crisis she failed to treat the patient adequately and then failed to find a path to move the patient on to more appropriate therapy while allowing herself to be victimized only to blame it all on the organization.

[ChumpDumper]

I don’t think that’s accurate. I’m adamantly opposed to victim blaming. In this case she wasn’t just an office secretary or run of the mill employee. Or even an executive. She was literally the team psychologist put in place to provide mental healthcare for the players. So when directly faced with a mental health crisis she failed to treat the patient adequately and then failed to find a path to move the patient on to more appropriate therapy while allowing herself to be victimized only to blame it all on the organization.Primo wasn't having a mental health crisis.

[BacktoBasics]

Primo wasn't having a mental health crisis.

Usually we agree but on this we don’t. He was a serial flasher which is essentially a serial sexual assaulter. He lacked self control and self awareness. The thought of torpedoing his career didn’t register. That is by definition a mental health crisis.

[ChumpDumper]

Usually we agree but on this we don’t. He was a serial flasher which is essentially a serial sexual assaulter. He lacked self control and self awareness. The thought of torpedoing his career didn’t register. That is by definition a mental health crisis.That's more a mental disorder. You can't really say he's in a constant state of crisis or he had nine crises in front of her plus the others. And of course he has some control and awareness. He doesn't expose himself to every woman he sees. Spurs telecasts would have been a lot weirder if he had no self control.

[scott]

I don’t think that’s accurate. I’m adamantly opposed to victim blaming. In this case she wasn’t just an office secretary or run of the mill employee. Or even an executive. She was literally the team psychologist put in place to provide mental healthcare for the players. So when directly faced with a mental health crisis she failed to treat the patient adequately and then failed to find a path to move the patient on to more appropriate therapy while allowing herself to be victimized only to blame it all on the organization.

I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of her role. Was she a psychologist there to help players with mental health issues, or is she is a psychologist hired by the Spurs to help players as it pertains to their performance as basketball players? Either way, her obligations as a doctor do not discard her rights as an employee or a human. If Primo were not just exposing himself, but instead was engaging in more forceful sexual assault (or even flat out rape) - would you be saying that she should have done more to treat his mental health crisis?

Also it's bizarre that you characterize Primo's repeated flashing as a failure (of the victim) to treat him. Do you think psychologists have some magic wand they get when they get their PhD? Sometimes people who do bad shit will continue to bad shit, they can't just be magically cured by a mental health professional.

[MultiTroll]

I don’t think that’s accurate. I’m adamantly opposed to victim blaming. In this case she wasn’t just an office secretary or run of the mill employee. Or even an executive. She was literally the team psychologist put in place to provide mental healthcare for the players. So when directly faced with a mental health crisis she failed to treat the patient adequately and then failed to find a path to move the patient on to more appropriate therapy while allowing herself to be victimized only to blame it all on the organization.
You weren't there.
You're just talking out of your ass, speculating.

[MultiTroll]

I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of her role. Was she a psychologist there to help players with mental health issues, or is she is a psychologist hired by the Spurs to help players as it pertains to their performance as basketball players? Either way, her obligations as a doctor do not discard her rights as an employee or a human. If Primo were not just exposing himself, but instead was engaging in more forceful sexual assault (or even flat out rape) - would you be saying that she should have done more to treat his mental health crisis?

Also it's bizarre that you characterize Primo's repeated flashing as a failure (of the victim) to treat him. Do you think psychologists have some magic wand they get when they get their PhD? Sometimes people who do bad shit will continue to bad shit, they can't just be magically cured by a mental health professional.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't think that's an accurate portrayal of her role. Was she a psychologist there to help players with mental health issues, or is she is a psychologist hired by the Spurs to help players as it pertains to their performance as basketball players? Either way, her obligations as a doctor do not discard her rights as an employee or a human. If Primo were not just exposing himself, but instead was engaging in more forceful sexual assault (or even flat out rape) - would you be saying that she should have done more to treat his mental health crisis?

Also it's bizarre that you characterize Primo's repeated flashing as a failure (of the victim) to treat him. Do you think psychologists have some magic wand they get when they get their PhD? Sometimes people who do bad shit will continue to bad shit, they can't just be magically cured by a mental health professional.
I wasn’t implying that she failed to fix him. She did fail to take appropriate action and/or so did the team. More information is needed but there is a failure on her part to at the very least move the patient onto another care provider or the police.

She does have a professional obligation to move her patient onto different care if she’s incapable of handling the situation. She’s also under obligation to escalate the situation if she knows that there is an impending crime.

So the debate would be over whether or not what’s below applies.


While almost everything you share with your therapist is held in confidence, there are a few exceptions to the rule:

danger to self
danger to others
abuse of children (including use of child pornography in certain states), dependent, or elderly adults
current or future crime concerning safety of others

[BacktoBasics]

You weren't there.
You're just talking out of your ass, speculating.

Neither were you so shut the fuck up or at least enter the discussion. I’m not being dismissive or disrespectful of anyone’s points here. They’re valid considering the lack of a full picture here. We’re all speculating.

Being a cunty bitch from the sidelines is koriwhats job. So stay in your lane asshole.

[scott]

I wasn’t implying that she failed to fix him. She did fail to take appropriate action and/or so did the team. More information is needed but there is a failure on her part to at the very least move the patient onto another care provider or the police.

She does have a professional obligation to move her patient onto different care if she’s incapable of handling the situation. She’s also under obligation to escalate the situation if she knows that there is an impending crime.

So the debate would be over whether or not what’s below applies.

That's more reasonable that this statement you made (though she claimed she did escalate the situation to her employer):


So when directly faced with a mental health crisis she failed to treat the patient adequately and then failed to find a path to move the patient on to more appropriate therapy while allowing herself to be victimized only to blame it all on the organization.

That specific sentence of yours is particularly oof-worthy.

[MultiTroll]

Neither were you so shut the fuck up or at least enter the discussion. I’m not being dismissive or disrespectful of anyone’s points here. They’re valid considering the lack of a full picture here. We’re all speculating.

Being a cunty bitch from the sidelines is koriwhats job. So stay in your lane asshole.
Nice projection.
Nice backpedal too.

[BacktoBasics]

That's more reasonable that this statement you made (though she claimed she did escalate the situation to her employer):

[/COLOR]

That specific sentence of yours is particularly oof-worthy.

Fair enough

[TekXX]

He wasn't very good, the FO was probably happy they had a reason to cut him.

[John B]

He wasn't very good, the FO was probably happy they had a reason to cut him.

Would’ve Spurs acted differently if it were a Wemby? Sochan perhaps? Had Primo been “that good”, would Spurs tried to have kept him instead? It seems the policy of “zero tolerance” would be applied on everyone regardless. And Primo was no chopped liver. He was Spur’s future, a very high pick.

[exstatic]

Would’ve Spurs acted differently if it were a Wemby? Sochan perhaps? Had Primo been “that good”, would Spurs tried to have kept him instead? It seems the policy of “zero tolerance” would be applied on everyone regardless. And Primo was no chopped liver. He was Spur’s future, a very high pick.

Primo was the lowest of the last 4 lottery picks, #11.

[The Truth #6]

All that would tell me is that she’s not truly a leading professional in her expertise. Now I’m not saying it’s not true. Your point could be spot on. But it would go against literally everything she would have learned abd been trained to do about properly treating a mental health problem.

I'm not sure what point you're exactly referring to, but speaking very generally, I think people put up with all sorts of weird shit in order to keep their jobs. Not only is she low on the totem pole, she would have to be the one to tell Wright, who got off to a bad start as a GM, that his prized choir boy is actually a deviant freak. The fact that Wright seems to have avoided dealing with this on some level suggests that calculation may be correct. As for training, I don't know what exact aspect you are referring to. Personally, I work with therapists daily in my job, granted not psychologists, but I see a wide range of ethical behavior. I think that's human nature.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not sure what point you're exactly referring to, but speaking very generally, I think people put up with all sorts of weird shit in order to keep their jobs. Not only is she low on the totem pole, she would have to be the one to tell Wright, who got off to a bad start as a GM, that his prized choir boy is actually a deviant freak. The fact that Wright seems to have avoided dealing with this on some level suggests that calculation may be correct. As for training, I don't know what exact aspect you are referring to. Personally, I work with therapists daily in my job, granted not psychologists, but I see a wide range of ethical behavior. I think that's human nature.

Well that's kinda my point. Basically you're saying that she abandoned all professional aspects and ethical obligations of her profession while setting aside her expertise in the field because of self preservation. That's a huge dereliction of duty and if anything lacks some serious self awareness considering her field is all about mental health.

My opinion would be different if she was a weight trainer or paper pusher. In this instance if what your suggesting is true she abandoned her job and all of its responsibilities. She is the very first person in line to take action when it comes to being a victim. She's supposed to be trained to advise others in this very situation.

People go to therapists and psychologists for guidance when they're sexually harassed or assaulted. But somehow all that expertise goes out the door because there's a dick out in the room.

None of this makes sense. Especially bringing her back. How can she advise people on their mental health when she couldn't advise herself or her previous patient?

[Spurs Homer]

Well that's kinda my point. Basically you're saying that she abandoned all professional aspects and ethical obligations of her profession while setting aside her expertise in the field because of self preservation. That's a huge dereliction of duty and if anything lacks some serious self awareness considering her field is all about mental health.

My opinion would be different if she was a weight trainer or paper pusher. In this instance if what your suggesting is true she abandoned her job and all of its responsibilities. She is the very first person in line to take action when it comes to being a victim. She's supposed to be trained to advise others in this very situation.

People go to therapists and psychologists for guidance when they're sexually harassed or assaulted. But somehow all that expertise goes out the door because there's a dick out in the room.

None of this makes sense. Especially bringing her back. How can she advise people on their mental health when she couldn't advise herself or her previous patient?

Unfortunately - everyone here is going on half the story/facts.

We really are missing a huge chunk of the complete picture and as much as I was high on Primo and was hoping the spurs long-shot gamble would pay off...

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. No mental health pro is responsible for someone else's actions/crimes/mistakes.

If she was doing her job in good faith and at some point reported Primo's behavior then the burden immediately shifted to the Spurs and it might very well be that they dropped the ball because of their investment and their affection for Primo and other considerations.

I am pretty confident that if this woman was shady and/or some kind of bad actor that the Spurs would have felt confident letting her go also and confident in fighting her "alleged bogus" lawsuit that she would have inevitably brought.

The Spurs did not and it appears after all is said and done, she acted responsibly and the spurs ultimately were forced to act responsibly also.

Primo should fix himself if he really wants to have a career but it is his own responsibility.

I am pretty sure her role is not as some kind of shrink to help players make free throws as someone posted but more of a professional person that players can sit with and see how going from a 17-18 year old nobody to a traveling professional with no real permanent home and sudden wealth, popularity, pressures, temptations, etc...
can be safely and successfully navigated.

In this scenario, she was nowhere responsible for "fixing" anyone of their own issues and/or defects but more of a person to assist players in navigating their new lives and new identities in the world.

[BacktoBasics]

Unfortunately - everyone here is going on half the story/facts.

We really are missing a huge chunk of the complete picture and as much as I was high on Primo and was hoping the spurs long-shot gamble would pay off...

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. No mental health pro is responsible for someone else's actions/crimes/mistakes.

If she was doing her job in good faith and at some point reported Primo's behavior then the burden immediately shifted to the Spurs and it might very well be that they dropped the ball because of their investment and their affection for Primo and other considerations.

I am pretty confident that if this woman was shady and/or some kind of bad actor that the Spurs would have felt confident letting her go also and confident in fighting her "alleged bogus" lawsuit that she would have inevitably brought.

The Spurs did not and it appears after all is said and done, she acted responsibly and the spurs ultimately were forced to act responsibly also.

Primo should fix himself if he really wants to have a career but it is his own responsibility.

I am pretty sure her role is not as some kind of shrink to help players make free throws as someone posted but more of a professional person that players can sit with and see how going from a 17-18 year old nobody to a traveling professional with no real permanent home and sudden wealth, popularity, pressures, temptations, etc...
can be safely and successfully navigated.

In this scenario, she was nowhere responsible for "fixing" anyone of their own issues and/or defects but more of a person to assist players in navigating their new lives and new identities in the world.

I agree isn’t starts with Primo but she has a professional obligation to provide care or shift her patient to more appropriate care. She also has an ethical obligation when it comes to crimes.

She’s not working a desk job or at McD’s. She absolutely failed her professional responsibilities but I agree much is unknown.

[Spurs Homer]

I agree isn’t starts with Primo but she has a professional obligation to provide care or shift her patient to more appropriate care. She also has an ethical obligation when it comes to crimes.

She’s not working a desk job or at McD’s. She absolutely failed her professional responsibilities but I agree much is unknown.

might be the case…

but without the full story- we dont know if she failed or dropped the ball or is a bad actor imo

[ChumpDumper]

I agree isn’t starts with Primo but she has a professional obligation to provide care or shift her patient to more appropriate care. She also has an ethical obligation when it comes to crimes.

She’s not working a desk job or at McD’s. She absolutely failed her professional responsibilities but I agree much is unknown.

You seem to have unrealistic expectations for psychologists. There's no guarantee that any treatment will work, especially in the timeline that is known. There is simply not enough information to be able to draw these sweeping conclusions about her professional conduct. Her current status with the Spurs and her licensing organization contradict your assertion.

[BacktoBasics]

You seem to have unrealistic expectations for psychologists. There's no guarantee that any treatment will work, especially in the timeline that is known. There is simply not enough information to be able to draw these sweeping conclusions about her professional conduct. Her current status with the Spurs and her licensing organization contradict your assertion.
I’m looking at the most stripped down possibilities. The red flag for her isn’t that she failed to “fix” him. It’s that she was aware of his repeated offenses and then had repeated offenses against herself. Way early on she should have shifted his care to someone else.

That’s what therapists/psychologists do. If they’re not equipped to treat a patient you don’t continue to live with multiple crimes, multiple flashes, allowing him to repeat the offenses over and over against her. You move the patient onto other care.

But for some reason no one including her moved him onto to different care.

It’s the first thing every therapist would do. I guess she escalated to management but that should have been the end of her treatment for him. Instead we get 9 more times and a threat of litigation.

She should not be a mental health care professional.

[BacktoBasics]

Everything she was trained to do she didn’t do. She completely abandoned her professional training. I’m okay I guess with blaming the front office but she is trained to handle situations like Primo. That’s right in her wheel house. Yet protocol was abandoned and she wanted to sue? This just doesn’t add up.

[ChumpDumper]

I’m looking at the most stripped down possibilities. The red flag for her isn’t that she failed to “fix” him. It’s that she was aware of his repeated offenses and then had repeated offenses against herself. Way early on she should have shifted his care to someone else.

That’s what therapists/psychologists do. If they’re not equipped to treat a patient you don’t continue to live with multiple crimes, multiple flashes, allowing him to repeat the offenses over and over against her. You move the patient onto other care.

But for some reason no one including her moved him onto to different care.

It’s the first thing every therapist would do. I guess she escalated to management but that should have been the end of her treatment for him. Instead we get 9 more times and a threat of litigation.

She should not be a mental health care professional.


Everything she was trained to do she didn’t do. She completely abandoned her professional training. I’m okay I guess with blaming the front office but she is trained to handle situations like Primo. That’s right in her wheel house. Yet protocol was abandoned and she wanted to sue? This just doesn’t add up.

I don't think you're accurately portraying what she was trained to do or obligated to to. If you have the protocol for this situation handy, I'd love to see it.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't think you're accurately portraying what she was trained to do or obligated to to. If you have the protocol for this situation handy, I'd love to see it.

I assume she has a degree if not doctorate. She’s not a life coach as a side hustle. She’s a professional health care provider.

[ChumpDumper]

I assume she has a degree if not doctorate. She’s not a life coach as a side hustle. She’s a professional health care provider.Her degree is a matter of record. That wasn't what I asked.

[BacktoBasics]

Her degree is a matter of record. That wasn't what I asked.

Here is a resource that discusses ethical or legal framework for terminating treatment.

https://www.apaservices.org/practice/good-practice/discontinuing-treatment-issues.pdf

This situation falls under A B and C subsets. B comes to mind immediately.

[ChumpDumper]

Here is a resource that discusses ethical or legal framework for terminating treatment.

https://www.apaservices.org/practice/good-practice/discontinuing-treatment-issues.pdf

This situation falls under A B and C subsets. B comes to mind immediately.

Psychologists may terminate therapy when threatened or otherwise endangered by the client/patient or another person with whom the client/patient has a relationship.

OK, the word "may" is the operative word here. It's not an obligation with consequences if it's not done. Not to minimize the crime, but it is a misdemeanor in Texas and she is indeed there to try to help with his mental disorder before it possibly escalates. Without looking at her patient notes and communications with management and other mental health professionals she might have consulted, I can't draw any conclusions that she didn't act within the guidelines of her profession.

[BacktoBasics]

Psychologists may terminate therapy when threatened or otherwise endangered by the client/patient or another person with whom the client/patient has a relationship.

OK, the word "may" is the operative word here. It's not an obligation with consequences if it's not done. Not to minimize the crime, but it is a misdemeanor in Texas and she is indeed there to try to help with his mental disorder. Without looking at her patient notes and communications with management and other mental health professionals she might have consulted, I can't draw any conclusions that she didn't act within the guidelines of her profession.
I draw the conclusion based on the repeated offenses both publicly and against her.

Let’s say her intention was to continue treatment… or she thought she was making progress. Then there be no threat of lawsuits etc.

The very nature of how it ended with a settlement speaks precisely to the failure I’m pointing to. She failed to terminate treatment so much so that it resulted in her being a victim to the tune of a settlement.

Had it been a good faith effort to avoid terminating treatment then there would be no victim. No settlement.

You can’t have it both ways. Either she decided terminating treatment wasn’t necessary or she should have terminated treatment because she was threatened and endangered.

[ChumpDumper]

I draw the conclusion based on the repeated offenses both publicly and against her.

Let’s say her intention was to continue treatment… or she thought she was making progress. Then there be no threat of lawsuits etc.

The very nature of how it ended with a settlement speaks precisely to the failure I’m pointing to. She failed to terminate treatment so much so that it resulted in her being a victim to the tune of a settlement.

Had it been a good faith effort to avoid terminating treatment then there would be no victim. No settlement.

You can’t have it both ways. Either she decided terminating treatment wasn’t necessary or she should have terminated treatment because she was threatened and endangered.The Spurs' failure to do anything about her notification is a separate issue. They were legally obligated to take action as soon as the notification was received. From that perspective she was a victim and they had to act accordingly.

They have their own professional responsibilities they clearly did not fulfill.

She had a certain amount of discretion as you illustrated with your apa document. The Spurs did not.

Can't really conflate the two.

[BacktoBasics]

The Spurs' failure to do anything about her notification is a separate issue. They were legally obligated to take action as soon as the notification was received. From that perspective she was a victim and they had to act accordingly.

They have their own professional responsibilities they clearly did not fulfill.

She had a certain amount of discretion as you illustrated with your apa document. The Spurs did not.

Can't really conflate the two.

I can agree with this point and still be right. Because you’re really strengthening my stance. She went to the team somewhat early on and they did nothing.

So by that fact and your point that team had an obligation to act… their lack of action as you said should have resulted in the perspective that she was a “victim”.

Great. I agree.

I’ll reference my link again and point to subsection B. She failed to terminate treatment or seek to move the patient to another provider because she was being victimized.

[JeffDuncan]

Just a couple points.

Sending Primo to another psychologist or a psychiatrist would have required spending the team’s money. It is unlikely that she had authority to spend the team’s money beyond the expenses of her own office. So, who did have authority to spend team money on another professional? The Spurs front office under GM Wright did, of course.

If Primo was going to be sent to somebody else, it was up to the Spurs front office to order that (and pay for it.)

Her obligation, then, was to report the matter to the Spurs GM. According to what’s been reported, she did so.

Also, she had no direct authority to fine Primo, or suspend him, or take serious disciplinary action against him. Who did? Again, the GM. It was the team who held Primo’s contract, not her.

It’s worth repeating, she was consulting with all the Spurs players. One reason she endured the situation with Primo was probably because she wanted to continue to be available to the other players.

[JeffDuncan]

…
She failed to terminate treatment or seek to move the patient to another provider because she was being victimized.


If I recall correctly - which is not guaranteed - she did at some point refuse to see Primo any further. As far as consulting another professional, that was up to the team.

[ChumpDumper]

I can agree with this point and still be right. Because you’re really strengthening my stance. She went to the team somewhat early on and they did nothing.

So by that fact and your point that team had an obligation to act… their lack of action as you said should have resulted in the perspective that she was a “victim”.

Great. I agree.

I’ll reference my link again and point to subsection B. She failed to terminate treatment or seek to move the patient to another provider because she was being victimized.That was all within her discretion. Again, your link clearly states it's her choice -- with the added complicating factor that a third party is paying for his treatment. She had already given them the reason he should be treated somewhere else at the Spurs' expense. Again, the ball was in the Spurs' court.

The Spurs had no discretion. They had to act and they didn't. While they didn't she still tried to do her job without straight going to the police and blowing it up for everyone. That does not change her status as a victim of Primo's crimes at all, nor her status as an HR complainant whose complaint required action.

It was a difficult situation. She acted within her discretion while the Spurs failed to do what was required of them. There is no universe in which her actions can be seen as a plot for personal gain.

[BacktoBasics]

That was all within her discretion.

The Spurs had no discretion. They had to act and they didn't. While they didn't she still tried to do her job without straight going to the police and blowing it up for everyone. That does not change her status as a victim of Primo's crimes at all, nor her status as an HR complainant whose complaint required action.

It was a difficult situation. She acted within her discretion while the Spurs failed to do what was required of them. There is no universe in which her actions can be seen as a plot for personal gain.

She can’t fail to act at her personal discretion and then claim victim. It directly calls her “discretion” into question. Like I’ve been saying.

But I’ll concede that the team fucked up and if she did terminate treatment she should have done it much sooner.

Anyway. I’m done beating the horse. I’m disappointed to see her back within the organization.

[ChumpDumper]

She can’t fail to act at her personal discretion and then claim victim. It directly calls her “discretion” into question. Like I’ve been saying.She didn't fail to act at her personal discretion. She acted within the set of choices she could make as you showed in your link. Also, her being a victim of a crime and workplace harassment was solely due to the choices made by Primo and Primo alone and there is no reason her job should have been in jeopardy because of him. Claiming anything else is straight up victim blaming.

[The Truth #6]

This isn't anything close to a normal situation for therapy that she is working in. It's a billion dollar business, not someone on Medicaid. Furthermore, she isn't just working for the client but really the organization. That's an inherently complicated situation. A very weird middle ground. Players often complain that they can't trust the team medical staff to do what's in their best interest, though the Spurs typically are better on that.

BTB, I'm surprised you have so little empathy for her situation. I mean, ultimately she works for the Spurs not Primo. Primo isn't paying for his sessions. To me, this situation played out like I expect it would, totally chaotic.

[BacktoBasics]

This isn't anything close to a normal situation for therapy that she is working in. It's a billion dollar business, not someone on Medicaid. Furthermore, she isn't just working for the client but really the organization. That's an inherently complicated situation. A very weird middle ground. Players often complain that they can't trust the team medical staff to do what's in their best interest, though the Spurs typically are better on that.

BTB, I'm surprised you have so little empathy for her situation. I mean, ultimately she works for the Spurs not Primo. Primo isn't paying for his sessions. To me, this situation played out like I expect it would, totally chaotic.

I’m adamantly against victim blaming. I know my stance isn’t popular. I just see things differently in this situation. Who employs her is a nonstarter for me. As a medical professional she has an ethical obligation that supersedes her employer.

It’s just all the more weird to blame the employer then go back to them. Her judgment on all sides is super suspect.

[The Truth #6]

I’m adamantly against victim blaming. I know my stance isn’t popular. I just see things differently in this situation. Who employs her is a nonstarter for me. As a medical professional she has an ethical obligation that supersedes her employer.

It’s just all the more weird to blame the employer then go back to them. Her judgment on all sides is super suspect.


You're taking hard stance, that's true. I'm not saying you're wrong but I see it as a grey area with a lack of clear boundaries, like the real world usually is, and perhaps, especially if she isn't treating him for froutterism or whatever. The more I think about it, it's almost impossible she's treating him for that, because that would be an even deeper layer of cover up.

But you're saying she screwed up in some way, too. I do agree with that...but are you also of the belief that Wright needs to lose his job? To me, the only one clearly to lose his job should be Primo, which is what eventually happened. But if you think she should be gone, then who else?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Exposing yourself to your therapist is not within the bounds of a medical relationship. She also refused to continue treating him and was forced to by the team's executives.

Why are there so many assholes on this forum? It's like you'll defend any sexual harassment against women as long as it's in the service of some guy you've never met that happened to wear your team's colors for a while. Douche bags.

[JPB]

Exposing yourself to your therapist is not within the bounds of a medical relationship. She also refused to continue treating him and was forced to by the team's executives.

Why are there so many assholes on this forum? It's like you'll defend any sexual harassment against women as long as it's in the service of some guy you've never met that happened to wear your team's colors for a while. Douche bags.

Read the discussion and inform yourself before playing the virtuous hero and caricaturing or insulting everyone... Nobody is defending Primo, absolutely nobody... It's precisely because it's not always as simple as you want it to be, that people calmly debate it... That's what justice does.

Quoting you: " Exposing yourself to your therapist is not within the bounds of a medical relationship"... Indeed, then the whole point of debate is why she let Primo expose himself 9 times before reporting him, why did she let him continue to "harass him sexually" on your own words, which could have been considered by Primo as an encouragement or even validation... She could have stopped the whole thing after the first time if that was so traumatising, but she didn't. She let him expose himself 8 more times. Still not excusing Primo, but we're also probalby not talking about him grabbing his D and puttng it under the doc's nose... More like not wearing panties or boxers under his shorts and letting his genitals visible for her (but we don't have all the info).

Did she try to "fix" it, was she afraid of something, did she react/act properly as a professional in front of a deranged teen, what were her motivations, why did she sue (and cashed in) are the topic of debate, and what a court would also analyse, Mr White Knight. And that's possible that she did react accordingly, or believed she did.

But that's always the same story with those Mr Right and their manicheism,. Respecting women, that's treating them like anyboy else, without any prejudgement, but without excluding anything either, or any possibility of discussion, considering them by default immaculate, perfect angels who could never do wrong, just because they are women., like those hereos who defended Spears and her stunt with Wemby, not imagiing it could have been be malicious and she could be lying...

And I'm not suggesting it is with the Primo affair... But it's stil possible to discuss and try to understand certain things.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol if the Spurs though she was just executing some master plan to extort them, they would've taken her to court.

[JPB]

:lol if the Spurs though she was just executing some master plan to extort them, they would've taken her to court.

Sure, to get all that positive publcity for months in a trial, and being publicly accused of not defending a sexually assaulted woman in their club.... Very spursy all that noise, and no doubt they would have won the popular opinion, just like they did with Nephew, potentially with manifestations before all the spurs game. Sponsors would have love that, too.

They settled the whole thing for a reason.

And the point is not say it was necessarily disingenious, but that maybe it could have been handled differently on her part, with still eventually the perspective of grabbing cash ultimately, which she did, and she's still there operating.

And if I was a bit malicious myslef, I'd say that I know a whole lot of ladies who would be ready to stare at a cock here or there for a couple millions. And a lot of men, too.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure, to get all that positive publcity for months in a trial, and being publicly accused of not defending a sexually assaulted woman in their club.... Very spursy all that noise, and no doubt they would have won the popular opinion, just like they did with Nephew, potentially with manifestations before all the spurs game. Sponsors would have love that, too.

They settled the whole thing for a reason.

And the point is not say it was necessarily disingenious, but that maybe it could have been handled differently on her part, with still eventually the perspective of grabbing cash ultimately, which she did, and she's still there operating.

And if I was a bit malicious myslef, I'd say that I know a whole lot of ladies who would be ready to stare at a cock here or there for a couple millions. And a lot of men, too.

Sorry, you're just wrong. Your conspiracy theory makes no sense.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Read the discussion and inform yourself before playing the virtuous hero and caricaturing or insulting everyone... Nobody is defending Primo, absolutely nobody... It's precisely because it's not always as simple as you want it to be, that people calmly debate it... That's what justice does.

Quoting you: " Exposing yourself to your therapist is not within the bounds of a medical relationship"... Indeed, then the whole point of debate is why she let Primo expose himself 9 times before reporting him, why did she let him continue to "harass him sexually" on your own words, which could have been considered by Primo as an encouragement or even validation... She could have stopped the whole thing after the first time if that was so traumatising, but she didn't. She let him expose himself 8 more times. Still not excusing Primo, but we're also probalby not talking about him grabbing his D and puttng it under the doc's nose... More like not wearing panties or boxers under his shorts and letting his genitals visible for her (but we don't have all the info).

Did she try to "fix" it, was she afraid of something, did she react/act properly as a professional in front of a deranged teen, what were her motivations, why did she sue (and cashed in) are the topic of debate, and what a court would also analyse, Mr White Knight. And that's possible that she did react accordingly, or believed she did.

But that's always the same story with those Mr Right and their manicheism,. Respecting women, that's treating them like anyboy else, without any prejudgement, but without excluding anything either, or any possibility of discussion, considering them by default immaculate, perfect angels who could never do wrong, just because they are women., like those hereos who defended Spears and her stunt with Wemby, not imagiing it could have been be malicious and she could be lying...

And I'm not suggesting it is with the Primo affair... But it's stil possible to discuss and try to understand certain things.

Reading comprehension isnt a strong suit. She refused to keep seeing him, but was forced to by team executives. Idiot.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Have to love men telling what women are supposed to do when a man sexually harasses her and then holding her to account for not doing as they would want.

[exstatic]

She was a sports psychologist, not a psychiatrist MD trained to treat sexual deviants.

[rascal]

Some deviant flashed her, she reported it and he got sent away, why should she quit if she doesn't want to?

Why should she lose her job?

[BacktoBasics]

She was a sports psychologist, not a psychiatrist MD trained to treat sexual deviants.

Okay. We’ll go with that. All the more reason she should have moved the patient onto another care provider. Instead she allowed herself to be victimized 9 times.

[ChumpDumper]

So she's to blame.

[exstatic]

Okay. We’ll go with that. All the more reason she should have moved the patient onto another care provider. Instead she allowed herself to be victimized 9 times.

That can only happen if the Spurs believed her. They didn’t.

[JeffDuncan]

Okay. We’ll go with that. All the more reason she should have moved the patient onto another care provider. …


How?

Seriously, how? Answer the question, how would she do that?

I’m certain she had no authority to spend the team’s money to hire another provider. The team front office would be the only ones with that financial authority, as agents of the ownership.

I’m also certain she had no authority to fine or suspend Primo, to try to force him to see somebody else. Again, the front office had that authority.

So, her obligation was to report it to the front office. Reportedly, she did so. She reported it to the GM.

It was up to the Spurs front office, not her, to do what you say, send Primo to another provider.

You’re ignoring reality. You’re talking about moving Primo like somebody passing the salt at the dinner table. It’d be nice if everything was that easy.

[Dverde]

I remembered when the talk was about Primo’s growth plates.

[MultiTroll]

Anyway. I’m done beating the horse.

[MultiTroll]

Have to love men telling what women are supposed to do when a man sexually harasses her and then holding her to account for not doing as they would want.
She's and sHes too.

[BacktoBasics]

How?

Seriously, how? Answer the question, how would she do that?

I’m certain she had no authority to spend the team’s money to hire another provider. The team front office would be the only ones with that financial authority, as agents of the ownership.

I’m also certain she had no authority to fine or suspend Primo, to try to force him to see somebody else. Again, the front office had that authority.

So, her obligation was to report it to the front office. Reportedly, she did so. She reported it to the GM.

It was up to the Spurs front office, not her, to do what you say, send Primo to another provider.

You’re ignoring reality. You’re talking about moving Primo like somebody passing the salt at the dinner table. It’d be nice if everything was that easy.
How do you get to 9 instances of assault? After probably the second time you refuse treatment and inform the team that the patient needs a provider that specializes in another field. That or you report the crime. Which she had a moral obligation to do.

I don’t dispute the organization’s failure here but there’s some questionable timelines around all of this.

Let’s say it’s true. The team forced her back into providing therapy for Primo and took no action.

You still don’t get to 9 assaults. If the failure is that extensive on the organization end of things then why return. Her return tells me that she’s perfectly comfortable coming back and it was her who contributed to the problem.

Returning to work at a place that allegedly enable 9 plus crimes doesn’t hold water.

[The Truth #6]

So after at least 9 years of school to get her phd, to finally work her way to the top to work for a professional sports team, she should quit and throw that all away over one patient because management was negligent? Come on, no way.

[ChumpDumper]

How do you get to 9 instances of assault? After probably the second time you refuse treatment and inform the team that the patient needs a provider that specializes in another field. That or you report the crime. Which she had a moral obligation to do.

I don’t dispute the organization’s failure here but there’s some questionable timelines around all of this.

Let’s say it’s true. The team forced her back into providing therapy for Primo and took no action.

You still don’t get to 9 assaults. If the failure is that extensive on the organization end of things then why return. Her return tells me that she’s perfectly comfortable coming back and it was her who contributed to the problem.

Returning to work at a place that allegedly enable 9 plus crimes doesn’t hold water.

Victim: blamed.

[exstatic]

Victim: blamed.

[BacktoBasics]

Victim: blamed.

Who the fuck goes back to work for the people who allegedly enabled 9 assaults.

I’m gonna kick you in the nuts 2 times.

Then go ask your boss to make it stop.

He says no. Get back in there and take it.

Like a moron you go back in there.

Imma kick you in the nuts 7 more times.

You sue your boss.

They apologize.

You get your ass right back in there and no one better question your judgment. You’re a victim.

[ChumpDumper]

Who the fuck goes back to work for the people who allegedly enabled 9 assaults.

I’m gonna kick you in the nuts 2 times.

Then go ask your boss to make it stop.

He says no. Get back in there and take it.

Like a moron you go back in there.

Imma kick you in the nuts 7 more times.

You sue your boss.

They apologize.

You get your ass right back in there and no one better question your judgment. You’re a victim.
Devious money grab conspiracy: hatched.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I remembered when the talk was about Primo’s growth plates.

Well it still kinda is ...

[SequSpur]

You guys are stupid.

[Spurs Homer]

Who the fuck goes back to work for the people who allegedly enabled 9 assaults.

I’m gonna kick you in the nuts 2 times.

Then go ask your boss to make it stop.

He says no. Get back in there and take it.

Like a moron you go back in there.

Imma kick you in the nuts 7 more times.

You sue your boss.

They apologize.

You get your ass right back in there and no one better question your judgment. You’re a victim.

Many, many lawsuits follow this exact pattern.

Employee reports incident. Employer ignores.
Employee reports second incident. Employer ignores and/or takes it personal and feels insulted and/or decides to flex their muscle/power and threatens employee.

Employee feels trapped, unsure of how to proceed so employee continues to go to work and is worried/stressed/scared/etc

Employee either reports next incident or maybe sees that employer is not going to act or is corrupt or is trying to fire employee.
Employee begins to get nit-picked for small issues and/or is being watched in the hopes employee will make a mistake to justify the firing.

Employee finally goes to a lawyer and seeks a consultation.

Lawyer advises employee, "do NOT quit and CONTINUE TO DOCUMENT the incidents/their behavior/their communications/emails/etc"

A lawsuit is born.

[KingKev]

I’m hearing Primo grew a few more inches over the last year. Open growth plates I guess. Not sure if it was in shoes or socks, or if they were talking when hard vs soft for that matter.

[koriwhat]

.

[DPG21920]

timvp or anyone can confirm this?

[JPB]

Many, many lawsuits follow this exact pattern.

Employee reports incident. Employer ignores.
Employee reports second incident. Employer ignores and/or takes it personal and feels insulted and/or decides to flex their muscle/power and threatens employee.

Employee feels trapped, unsure of how to proceed so employee continues to go to work and is worried/stressed/scared/etc

Employee either reports next incident or maybe sees that employer is not going to act or is corrupt or is trying to fire employee.
Employee begins to get nit-picked for small issues and/or is being watched in the hopes employee will make a mistake to justify the firing.

Employee finally goes to a lawyer and seeks a consultation.

Lawyer advises employee, "do NOT quit and CONTINUE TO DOCUMENT the incidents/their behavior/their communications/emails/etc"

A lawsuit is born.

That's the whole point of discussion, she DIDN'T report it every time. She waited the 9th time to start reporting it... It could be true spurs didn't react accordingly when she did, but one question is why did she wait 9 times, allowing (and maybe in his head) encouraging Primo to continue.

Would I wait 9 times to report someone showing me his dick on a work place? Certainly not.

[Spurs Homer]

That's the whole point of discussion, she DIDN'T report it every time. She waited the 9th time to start reporting it... It could be true spurs didn't react accordingly when she did, but one question is why did she wait 9 times, allowing (and maybe in his head) encouraging Primo to continue.

Would I wait 9 times to report someone showing me his dick on a work place? Certainly not.

that is the thing -

where did you hear she waited 9 times?

i never heard that was an official fact from the spurs -
if you heard some version somewhere on social media or read it here in some thread -

that hardly qualifies as a fact

[MultiTroll]

If Buzbee and accuser are to be believed:

Would I wait 9 times to report someone showing me his dick on a work place? Certainly not.


The first incident took place in late December of 2021, when Primo allegedly exposed his penis in one of their first sessions together. This was immediately brought to the attention of the team's general manager, Brian Wright. After multiple postponements, Cauthen was able to get a meeting with him. Cauthen insisted that head coach Gregg Popovich be made aware of the situation, and was informed in June that he was, but Buzbee acknowledged that they did not know for sure whether or not that was true.
The Spurs continued to call on Cauthen to have sessions with Primo and other players. Primo's alleged conduct continued and escalated from there. Cauthen was eventually told to work from home.


Joshua Primo accuser alleges 10 months of inaction from Spurs, files suit against team - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/joshua-primo-accuser-alleges-10-months-of-inaction-from-spurs-files-suit-against-team/)


that is the thing -

where did you hear she waited 9 times?

i never heard that was an official fact from the spurs -
if you heard some version somewhere on social media or read it here in some thread -

that hardly qualifies as a fact

[MultiTroll]

What would happen if a male pro sports psychologist was treating a female employee and she flashed her vag at him?
Repeatedly.

[BacktoBasics]

What would happen if a male pro sports psychologist was treating a female employee and she flashed her vag at him?
Repeatedly.

He’d probably be labeled a predator and accused of grooming her.

[ChumpDumper]

What would happen if a male pro sports psychologist was treating a female employee and she flashed her vag at him?
Repeatedly.

Basically the same thing if the psychologist reported it. This is about the perpetrator's actions and the business' reaction to them.