Lillard to Miami trade imminent; Herro to the Spurs makes too much sense

[kht]

After striking out on Jordan Poole, who's asking price was at an all-time low, the Spurs should make a run for Tyler Herro if the price is 1st round pick and a couple of seconds.

We need a volume scorer and shooter. No one else is really a shot maker and shot creator on this team outside of Vassell and obviously he cannot take 30+ shots a game.

If Herro can survive in Miami with the distractions and play under the strict discipline and structure of Spoestra and Pat Riley, then it's will be a cake walk for him in San Antonio.

[scott]

No room on the court for Herro if we are going to sign Kevin Tran.

[exstatic]

Herro would hate it here, and Pop would hate his inefficient chucking ass. The trade also doesn’t work without him going to PDX.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

i'd take him

[GAustex]

Knucklehead
Do not want

[heyheymymy]

Knucklehead
Do not want

[td4mvp2k]

he would easily fill what this team is missing but not for the cost of more than a late 1st. portland is going to want more than what's being offered and i dont see spurs interested.

[kobyz]

Would not have been better to sign Austin Reeves with less money?

[Fireball]

Would not have been better to sign Austin Reeves with less money?

Definitely! Not going for Reeves but then taking Herro seems like a weird move.

[Ariel]

Would not have been better to sign Austin Reeves with less money?

Definitely! Not going for Reeves but then taking Herro seems like a weird move.
:bang Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent, the Lakers could have matched ANYTHING the Spurs offered and (for all we know) WOULD HAVE. So let's stop pretending like he was gift wrapped and the Spurs fumbled it away.

[Mr. Body]

Would not have been better to sign Austin Reeves with less money?

Why not TWO Austin Reaves?

[rankingtear]

After striking out on Jordan Poole, who's asking price was at an all-time low, the Spurs should make a run for Tyler Herro if the price is 1st round pick and a couple of seconds.

We need a volume scorer and shooter. No one else is really a shot maker and shot creator on this team outside of Vassell and obviously he cannot take 30+ shots a game.

If Herro can survive in Miami with the distractions and play under the strict discipline and structure of Spoestra and Pat Riley, then it's will be a cake walk for him in San Antonio.

2 of the worst contracts in the league. 2 smart teams dumping them before it kicks in.

[Rocalcio]

No thanks, we have enough young guards to develop

[Degoat]

I’ve been on getting Herro to the spurs since the beginning, but I believe the spurs mean what they say when they said they want to see what they have with their construction of this current roster.

[spurraider21]

Why not TWO Austin Reaves?
https://media0.giphy.com/media/KDVswimTNahWzcd7sV/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952c3ccq47dykk6unstuw4w9h0vma0r rh9w1xu7o6ol&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Mr. Body]

Also, how did we strike out on Jordan Peele? What would we do with Jordan Peele?

[BacktoBasics]

:bang Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent, the Lakers could have matched ANYTHING the Spurs offered and (for all we know) WOULD HAVE. So let's stop pretending like he was gift wrapped and the Spurs fumbled it away.

Doesn't matter how many times you say it. The fucking retards here will keep repeating it.

[kht]

Also, how did we strike out on Jordan Peele? What would we do with Jordan Peele?

Knockdown shooter and bonafide 23-24 ppg scorer... no one else is a "bucket getter" on the Spurs except Vassell.

[kht]

:bang Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent, the Lakers could have matched ANYTHING the Spurs offered and (for all we know) WOULD HAVE. So let's stop pretending like he was gift wrapped and the Spurs fumbled it away.

What else were we doing with the money that couldn't be tied up for the next 48 hours? F-IT. Make the Lakers overpay.

[exstatic]

Knockdown shooter and bonafide 23-24 ppg scorer... no one else is a "bucket getter" on the Spurs except Vassell.

He had a terrible year last year. Career 34% 3G shooter, best year was 36.4%, barely above league average. NOT a knockdown shooter.

[Rocalcio]

I’ve been on getting Herro to the spurs since the beginning, but I believe the spurs mean what they say when they said they want to see what they have with their construction of this current roster.

This.

If Malaki becomes the great scorer we all hope he can be, we'd be glad the FO didn't make any move.

[Rocalcio]

What else were we doing with the money that couldn't be tied up for the next 48 hours? F-IT. Make the Lakers overpay.

If they don't match we're the idiots overpaying :lol

[Leetonidas]

Knockdown shooter and bonafide 23-24 ppg scorer... no one else is a "bucket getter" on the Spurs except Vassell.

A guy that has never shot above 36% from three and never once averaged 23-24ppg is a knockdown shooter and bonafide 23-24ppg scorer? Interesting

[spurraider21]

This.

If Malaki becomes the great scorer we all hope he can be, we'd be glad the FO didn't make any move.
malaki will be 24 years old when herro's contract ends

[Mr. Body]

Poole is also an awful defender. The team doesn't need a go-to perimeter scorer. That's not how Popovich teams work. It's not going to be iso-centric around an outside shooter.

[rjv]

hard pass

[John B]

Stop. We got our roster already. If Wemby shows that he is more than ready by mid-season, sure PATFO would make some trade deadline moves. But till then, this is your team bitches. No Herro, no Poole.. and yes no LeMarsha for asst coach. Pop almost drove him off to the airport for crying out loud, but nobody would take him

[Bruno]

Spurs have drafted with Wembanyama one of the best prospect ever and it changes everything. They have now a player who could be the league MVP in a few years. The rebuilding goal is now to be a perennial true title contender in 3 to 5 years. It isn't to be a play-in team in 1 or 2 years.

Herro is a fine player for an average to good team but he isn't for a great team. Come playoff time, his weaknesses (lack of size/defense and relativily low offensive efficiency) will hurt him and make him a liability.

As weird as it sounds, Spurs are a team coming from a 22-60 season but they should wonder before adding a player with a high salary: "Can this player help us win a title in a few years?" . It's all about not wasting Wembanyama potential greatness.

[scott]

I'm on the record and will happily state again that I think Herro is better than Vassell. With that said, Devin still has a chance to be better than Herro and there is value in continuity and developing our own guys. So for that reason, it's worth sticking with Devin. Don't think there is room for both on the roster, Herro is not a PG.

Now, *if and only if* Devin has made it clear he won't sign an extension or resign long-term, or his contract demands are astronomical, I would consider bringing in Herro for a protected first to facilitate the Dame deal and then flipping Devin.

[ambchang]

The only reason to ever consider Poole is for him creating the term triple-single. That’s it.

I absolutely do not understand the fascination with either player. Both are poor defenders, highly inefficient chuckers who have minimal impact on winning. For what they offer (shooting) the spurs can get someone for a much lower price.

[JeffDuncan]

... For what they offer (shooting) the spurs can get someone for a much lower price.


The Spurs already have a better shooter than either Poole or Herro, and at a lower price. McDermott, of course. Instead of fuddling around with those guys, just keep McBuckets. Makes more sense.

[buttsR4rebounding]

kht is the only one saying a Dame trade is imminent. Even Woj says the opposite. Hmmm, who should I trust…

[Rocalcio]

malaki will be 24 years old when herro's contract ends

Ok, and ?

[CGD]

Spurs have drafted with Wembanyama one of the best prospect ever and it changes everything. They have now a player who could be the league MVP in a few years. The rebuilding goal is now to be a perennial true title contender in 3 to 5 years. It isn't to be a play-in team in 1 or 2 years.

Herro is a fine player for an average to good team but he isn't for a great team. Come playoff time, his weaknesses (lack of size/defense and relativily low offensive efficiency) will hurt him and make him a liability.

As weird as it sounds, Spurs are a team coming from a 22-60 season but they should wonder before adding a player with a high salary: "Can this player help us win a title in a few years?" . It's all about not wasting Wembanyama potential greatness.

I’m convinced that Wemby’s eventual long term running mate will not come through trade but via the draft. I love Sochan and Vassell but not sure either is the #2 guy on the next great Spurs team (good #3 options though).

Basically, not seeing how a Herro or any other player right now would be 1) on the right timeline and available, and 2) good enough if they’re made available.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

No room on the court for Herro if we are going to sign Kevin Tran.

LOL

[baseline bum]

Knockdown shooter and bonafide 23-24 ppg scorer... no one else is a "bucket getter" on the Spurs except Vassell.

Poole knocked down a whole 33.6% of this threes with Curry's gravity getting him wide open shots constantly. Vassell knocked down 38.7% of his threes with the spacing Tre Jones provided. Yeah not sweating missing the opportunity to pay Jordan Poole $30 million a year when the Spurs already have a better 2-guard.

[The Truth #6]

Jordan Poole is not our first big move. I think it's going to be more microscopic maneuvering while they figure out what we have, obviously, and then go from there. They might end up liking the team they already have. We don't know yet. I have high hopes for Jeremy, personally. There will be trades eventually but I don't think even Wright knows yet.

[spurraider21]

Poole sucks. Between the two, Herro can actually play

[bluebellmaniac]

We have some pretty good support cast with more on the way. We don't/won't need to trade for big $ support cast. We will be going for division championships in a couple years with conference and nba championships hopefully another couple years after that.

Trust the process.

[wildbill2u]

Whatever happened to all the optimism about our young guards like Malaki, Wesley, Sidy, etc, etc. developing into 3 point shooters? Why, we almost have a corner on promising young sharpshooters.

[Bruno]

I’m convinced that Wemby’s eventual long term running mate will not come through trade but via the draft. I love Sochan and Vassell but not sure either is the #2 guy on the next great Spurs team (good #3 options though).

Basically, not seeing how a Herro or any other player right now would be 1) on the right timeline and available, and 2) good enough if they’re made available.

Spurs are in a great spot to improve the 3 way possible: draft, trade and free agency.

- I agree with you that right now draft is the primary way to improve the team. I'm convinced Spurs' FO is tanking this season to get an as high as possible pick in the 2024 draft. Wright hasn't really tried to add some vets this summer to make the team more competitive. Saying that, maybe the young core will do like OKC last season and surprises everybody, but they haven't been put in a position to succeed by the FO.


- The trade landscape looks bleak for the moment but Spurs have some really nice assets (Hawks, Bulls and Mavs picks...).
I would add a quote from Wojnarowski that he said few days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETvjmDjB-og

There could be some massive talents available for trades next season. Maybe at the trade deadline. Maybe next year. You have teams weighing the assets they might use to trade for Damian Lillard versus who could be available, that ‘we don’t want to be out of the game for some players younger,’ first-team All-NBA type of players who may be in that marketplace.


- Spurs will have a lot of cap space next summer. If a player like Pascal Siakam becomes an unrestricted free agent, should Spurs go after him ?

[exstatic]

Spurs are in a great spot to improve the 3 way possible: draft, trade and free agency.

- I agree with you that right now draft is the primary way to improve the team. I'm convinced Spurs' FO is tanking this season to get an as high as possible pick in the 2024 draft. Wright hasn't really tried to add some vets this summer to make the team more competitive. Saying that, maybe the young core will do like OKC last season and surprises everybody, but they haven't been put in a position to succeed by the FO.


- The trade landscape looks bleak for the moment but Spurs have some really nice assets (Hawks, Bulls and Mavs picks...).
I would add a quote from Wojnarowski that he said few days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETvjmDjB-og



- Spurs will have a lot of cap space next summer. If a player like Pascal Siakam becomes an unrestricted free agent, should Spurs go after him ?

Too old. Almost a full decade older than Wembymania.

[spurraider21]

Spurs are in a great spot to improve the 3 way possible: draft, trade and free agency.

- I agree with you that right now draft is the primary way to improve the team. I'm convinced Spurs' FO is tanking this season to get an as high as possible pick in the 2024 draft. Wright hasn't really tried to add some vets this summer to make the team more competitive. Saying that, maybe the young core will do like OKC last season and surprises everybody, but they haven't been put in a position to succeed by the FO.
Well yeah. We drafted wemby and otherwise just brought back the same roster we just tanked with. It makes sense since wemby is still very green and just 19

[TD 21]

Fischer makes it sound like the Craptors are "in the lead" with Anunoby and Dick (obviously picks and salary filler would need to be included), but is that the usual Craptors buddy pushing their agenda propaganda or is it the Trail Blazers playing scare tactics with the Heat?

Herro makes no sense. I'd rather have Vassell and it's not hard to envision Branham, a similar archetype, becoming comparable in time.


Too old. Almost a full decade older than Wembymania.

Probably just an example that you're taking too literally, but I can't see either side having interest.

There's three archetypes I envision the Spurs seeking/splurging on . . .

1. Dynamic perimeter creator adept at playing on or off ball.

2. Three and D wing/forward

3. Floor spacing big with girth.

[exstatic]

I’ll never understand this board’s obsession with low efficiency chuckers who put up points on volume touches, but do nothing else.

[Mr. Body]

I’ll never understand this board’s obsession with low efficiency chuckers who put up points on volume touches, but do nothing else.

Of the long list of losers ST becomes obsessed with -- John Collins, Deandre Ayton, Ben Simmons, and so on -- Tyler Herro is one who actually isn't that bad. Not great, and also not a fit though.

[spurraider21]

Of the long list of losers ST becomes obsessed with -- Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Josh Primo, and so on -- Tyler Herro is one who actually isn't that bad. Not great, and also not a fit though.

[kht]

Of the long list of losers ST becomes obsessed with -- John Collins, Deandre Ayton, Ben Simmons, and so on -- Tyler Herro is one who actually isn't that bad. Not great, and also not a fit though.

LMA was literally our only key signing since we drafted Duncan...

[baseline bum]

I'm convinced Spurs' FO is tanking this season to get an as high as possible pick in the 2024 draft.

Don't really see that, especially with Cooper Flagg not coming until 2025.

[Ignazzz]

Horry, McDyess great role players too.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs are absolutely not tanking this season. WTF.

[spurraider21]

The Spurs are absolutely not tanking this season. WTF.
They brought back the team they just tanked with

[baseline bum]

They brought back the team they just tanked with

I think there might be one difference

[Mr. Body]

They brought back the team they just tanked with

Do you know what tanking means? Lol.

[Leetonidas]

I think there might be one difference

I don't think Keita Bates-Diop was that big of a negative

[exstatic]

I don't think Keita Bates-Diop was that big of a negative

Somehow, I don’t think KBD was the difference he was referring to…

[Mr. Body]

Somehow, I don’t think KBD was the difference he was referring to…

Romeo Langford then.

[hombre]

Somehow, I don’t think KBD was the difference he was referring to…

Well Aldridge assistant coaching next season isn't a done deal either.

[spurraider21]

I think there might be one difference
Drafting him was a formality. The team had decisions on what do with the rest of its offseason and chose to sell cap space for future picks (decision im good with) and didn’t bring in talent to help the team win now. I’m not sure how else they could have tanked more other than trading the wemby pick

[buttsR4rebounding]

Drafting him was a formality. The team had decisions on what do with the rest of its offseason and chose to sell cap space for future picks (decision im good with) and didn’t bring in talent to help the team win now. I’m not sure how else they could have tanked more other than trading the wemby pick

They could send Wemby to Austin so he can get over himself.

[baseline bum]

Drafting him was a formality. The team had decisions on what do with the rest of its offseason and chose to sell cap space for future picks (decision im good with) and didn’t bring in talent to help the team win now. I’m not sure how else they could have tanked more other than trading the wemby pick

They also chose to give their young players another year to evaluate who they keep next to Wemby. Lotta unanswered questions there, such as how good is Devin or can Jeremy and Keldon play together and if not which one do you keep? Only big disappointment of the offseason for me was not getting Lopez, but Milwaukee backed up a dump truck of cash to him so he wasn't going to leave a title contender for a rebuilding team when the money was similar. None of the young guys have enough value to use as trade pieces and come out ahead right now and Lollard and Harden are too old to trade for on a rebuilding team.

[spurraider21]

They also chose to give their young players another year to evaluate who they keep next to Wemby. Lotta unanswered questions there, such as how good is Devin or can Jeremy and Keldon play together and if not which one do you keep? Only big disappointment of the offseason for me was not getting Lopez, but Milwaukee backed up a dump truck of cash to him so he wasn't going to leave a title contender for a rebuilding team when the money was similar. None of the young guys have enough value to use as trade pieces and come out ahead right now and Lollard and Harden are too old to trade for on a rebuilding team.
Give a year to evaluate young guys is a euphemism for tanking. I’m not even saying it’s wrong. But it’s not the FO trying to build the roster with the intention of winning as many games as possible this year.

short of trading the wemby pick, what else could they have done that would be more tanky than what we did this offseason? Trade Keldon i guess

[baseline bum]

Give a year to evaluate young guys is a euphemism for tanking. I’m not even saying it’s wrong. But it’s not the FO trying to build the roster with the intention of winning as many games as possible this year.


So if Sacramento doesn't make a move for Harden because their young guys have a better future that's tanking? Tanking is gutting your team and resting your best players to lose as many games as possible to chase lottery balls.

[Rocalcio]

By the way, the title is now totally wrong since it appears that Miami doesn’t seem that interested in Lillard.

[spurraider21]

So if Sacramento doesn't make a move for Harden because their young guys have a better future that's tanking? Tanking is gutting your team and resting your best players to lose as many games as possible to chase lottery balls.
No. The kings are playoff team. For them to tank they’d have to move sabonis/fox. Their expectation with this club is to make the playoffs again and compete again. We already gutted our team in recent years by moving white, Murray, Poeltl with nothing to show for it yet but Devonte graham, khem birch, a bunch of future picks, and Blake Wesley

obviously you can do things in-season geared toward tanking as well. Just talking about offseason approaches. Other than not trading the #1 pick they didn’t do anything to improve the roster that earned the #1 pick.

i would define tanking as either the FO, coaches, or both intentionally crafting a team that is not meant to win games, or intentionally made to not be competitive. Think we’ve basically done that in the offseason, again, short of moving keldon

[exstatic]

No. The kings are playoff team. For them to tank they’d have to move sabonis/fox. Their expectation with this club is to make the playoffs again and compete again. We already gutted our team in recent years by moving white, Murray, Poeltl with nothing to show for it yet but Devonte graham, khem birch, a bunch of future picks, and Blake Wesley

obviously you can do things in-season geared toward tanking as well. Just talking about offseason approaches. Other than not trading the #1 pick they didn’t do anything to improve the roster that earned the #1 pick.

i would define tanking as either the FO, coaches, or both intentionally crafting a team that is not meant to win games, or intentionally made to not be competitive. Think we’ve basically done that in the offseason, again, short of moving keldon

If that had been all we did last year, we would have finished with about the same wins as Portland, 33ish Tanking requires intent. You have to dump games by minimizing playing time your best players are on the court by holding them out, or pulling them late in games. Pop threw games.

[spurraider21]

If that had been all we did last year, we would have finished with about the same wins as Portland, 33ish Tanking requires intent. You have to dump games by minimizing playing time your best players are on the court by holding them out, or pulling them late in games. Pop through games.
I can only speak to the off-season approach at this point. From the moment dejounte was traded it was clear we were tanking. And yet very early into the season we won some games and weren’t benching players or throwing games via rotations just yet

[Dex]

The Spurs are absolutely not tanking this season. WTF.

Agreed. The optics alone would be terrible after hauling in the #1 overall pick, and I wouldn't want Wemby starting his NBA career in tank mode. That's a real easy way to piss off someone you hope to be your franchise player.

I do think we are still a good 2-3 years away from being truly competitive, but this team deserves the chance to go out and see what it can do. Let the cards fall where they may.

[Dex]

By the way, the title is now totally wrong since it appears that Miami doesn’t seem that interested in Lillard.

Been the same song & dance all summer. The only development I've heard of is that Suns may be available to help facilitate using Ayton who has historically been malcontent in Phoenix.

That said, this is all based off a tweet that said a Lillard deal would be happening within 24 hours....and that was like 72 hours ago :lol

[CGD]

Spurs are in a great spot to improve the 3 way possible: draft, trade and free agency.

- I agree with you that right now draft is the primary way to improve the team. I'm convinced Spurs' FO is tanking this season to get an as high as possible pick in the 2024 draft. Wright hasn't really tried to add some vets this summer to make the team more competitive. Saying that, maybe the young core will do like OKC last season and surprises everybody, but they haven't been put in a position to succeed by the FO.


- The trade landscape looks bleak for the moment but Spurs have some really nice assets (Hawks, Bulls and Mavs picks...).
I would add a quote from Wojnarowski that he said few days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETvjmDjB-og



- Spurs will have a lot of cap space next summer. If a player like Pascal Siakam becomes an unrestricted free agent, should Spurs go after him ?

In my view Vassell is the lynchpin as to whether they accelerate their push to be good starting next summer (as opposed to 2025, which feels more realistic). If he has a breakthrough year this coming campaign -- to me means becoming a reasonable facsimile of Mikal Bridges -- I could see them looking at bringing in another good but complementary piece to move up the timeline, e.g., Tobias Harris, Gordon Hayward (if healthy), and maybe even Pascal if the price isn't ridiculous (which it will be). I think this would also hasten the departure of Keldon, which still feels like to me the odd man out over the next 2 years.

But as you say they have tremendous flexibility, of the kind I've never seen in all my years as a Spurs fan.

[baseline bum]

In my view Vassell is the lynchpin as to whether they accelerate their push to be good starting next summer (as opposed to 2025, which feels more realistic). If he has a breakthrough year this coming campaign -- to me means becoming a reasonable facsimile of Mikal Bridges -- I could see them looking at bringing in another good but complementary piece to move up the timeline, e.g., Tobias Harris, Gordon Hayward (if healthy), and maybe even Pascal if the price isn't ridiculous (which it will be). I think this would also hasten the departure of Keldon, which still feels like to me the odd man out over the next 2 years.

But as you say they have tremendous flexibility, of the kind I've never seen in all my years as a Spurs fan.

I don't see getting another three when that's the one spot the Spurs have two good players at in Sochan and Keldon and definitely not a four if Wemby isn't going to play center. PG is the Spurs' major need, damn if Lillard was two years younger.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I don't see getting another three when that's the one spot the Spurs have two good players at in Sochan and Keldon and definitely not a four if Wemby isn't going to play center. PG is the Spurs' major need, damn if Lillard was two years younger.

At some point you need to replace Keldon with a 3 that can be at least an above average defender if not an elite one to compete for a championship. If Sochan can shoot 3s at an average clip he could be that guy, but Keldon is not.

[couchman]

The Spurs will be happy to play a lot of young guys this season and let them figure things out.
That includes Wemby.
Winning will be secondary to development.
Call it tanking or call it whatever you want but result will likely be a lottery team.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

"Development Year"

[exstatic]

I can only speak to the off-season approach at this point. From the moment dejounte was traded it was clear we were tanking. And yet very early into the season we won some games and weren’t benching players or throwing games via rotations just yet

But we did, eventually. The team was better than they thought it would be, and that would have been catastrophic had it continued. Jeremy Sochan played 6 games each in Feb and March. He didn't play at all in the 5 April games. If his 'knee' was bad enough to hold him out of 19 games, they would have scoped it. They didn't. It was a fig leaf of cover for the team after the commissioner's warning last summer.

Tanking is a process that consists of a number of steps, and we're not doing all, or even most of those steps this year. I think you'll see much more of that 5-2 team this year than the one after that stretch.

[Mr. Body]

Last year, the team started out pretty competitive. Then the Josh Primo thing happened. Then Wesley got injured. At some point they pulled the plug discretely and went into a tank mode that involved drastically underemphasizing defense and sitting players. Tanking involves deliberately losing games. I don't think they started the season that way, but something did change.

I won't say they'll be highly competitive this year, but I can't see them tanking. That's a horrible tactic with young players who want to win. They need to start learning how to close quarters, kill runs, score down the stretch, make stops. They just won the Power Lotto to the tune of a billion dollars, it doesn't make sense to go all in on the lottery again.

[spurraider21]

Last year, the team started out pretty competitive. Then the Josh Primo thing happened. Then Wesley got injured. At some point they pulled the plug discretely and went into a tank mode that involved drastically underemphasizing defense and sitting players. Tanking involves deliberately losing games. I don't think they started the season that way, but something did change.

I won't say they'll be highly competitive this year, but I can't see them tanking. That's a horrible tactic with young players who want to win. They need to start learning how to close quarters, kill runs, score down the stretch, make stops. They just won the Power Lotto to the tune of a billion dollars, it doesn't make sense to go all in on the lottery again.
josh primo and blake wesley playing more minutes would have likely led to even more losses

there was nothing discreet about trading our best player during the offseason and not getting anything back to help the 22-23 team. we got gallinari (waived) and a bunch of future picks. the only offseason signing we made to the 15 man roster was roby. this was not a team trying to build a winner in 22-23, which was a wise move. they are taking the same approach so far into the 23-24 season. im not saying its the wrong approach. its just what they're doing

if you want to say its not tanking until you see the in-game or in-season decisions, fine. im just evaluating their approach this offseason, which is the same as last season

[exstatic]

josh primo and blake wesley playing more minutes would have likely led to even more losses

there was nothing discreet about trading our best player during the offseason and not getting anything back to help the 22-23 team. we got gallinari (waived) and a bunch of future picks. the only offseason signing we made to the 15 man roster was roby. this was not a team trying to build a winner in 22-23, which was a wise move. they are taking the same approach so far into the 23-24 season. im not saying its the wrong approach. its just what they're doing

if you want to say its not tanking until you see the in-game or in-season decisions, fine. im just evaluating their approach this offseason, which is the same as last season

We didn't trade away an All Star this summer, but we did each of the last two summers. Not the same.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on tanking. I see it as intentional, a dumping of games. OKC did nothing to improve last summer, but I don't think anyone saw their #10 draft placement as tanking. They just rolled with what they had, and didn't overpay for mid FAs on the market.

[spurraider21]

We didn't trade away an All Star this summer, but we did each of the last two summers. Not the same.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on tanking. I see it as intentional, a dumping of games. OKC did nothing to improve last summer, but I don't think anyone saw their #10 draft placement as tanking. They just rolled with what they had, and didn't overpay for mid FAs on the market.
we didnt have one to trade :lol...

its like having 10 dollars. giving away 5 two years ago, giving away 5 more last year, and then saying "well at least we didnt lose $5 again"... when you have 0 to work with

yes, i know we all have expectations of wemby, but his arrival was a formality, not really an active decision to make. i dont see us being as bad as last year. but the FO definitely wasnt making any effort to maximize our wins this year

[Mr. Body]

josh primo and blake wesley playing more minutes would have likely led to even more losses

there was nothing discreet about trading our best player during the offseason and not getting anything back to help the 22-23 team. we got gallinari (waived) and a bunch of future picks. the only offseason signing we made to the 15 man roster was roby. this was not a team trying to build a winner in 22-23, which was a wise move. they are taking the same approach so far into the 23-24 season. im not saying its the wrong approach. its just what they're doing

if you want to say its not tanking until you see the in-game or in-season decisions, fine. im just evaluating their approach this offseason, which is the same as last season

I'm a little tired of the "Primo sucks" bandwagon. Regardless, the team was very competitive to begin the season - they beat Philadelphia and Minnesota twice - and then things shifted. I don't give a shit about that offseason, but the Dejounte trade was for a long term future and how he didn't have a place there. They didn't want to pay White, they didn't want to pay Murray. You're missing the difference between tanking and playing hard. They came into the season last year clearly not wanting to tank and they shifted.

[spurraider21]

I'm a little tired of the "Primo sucks" bandwagon.
ok?


Regardless, the team was very competitive to begin the season - they beat Philadelphia and Minnesota twice - and then things shifted. I don't give a shit about that offseason, but the Dejounte trade was for a long term future and how he didn't have a place there. They didn't want to pay White, they didn't want to pay Murray. You're missing the difference between tanking and playing hard. They came into the season last year clearly not wanting to tank and they shifted.
i think you are

players dont tank. players never lose on purpose. these guys are playing for their next contract.

tanking is an organizational thing. they put the team in a position to not be able to win games, even if the players are earnestly trying and playing hard. you can brush it off as "they didnt want to pay good player a and good player b" but thats what it is. the organization intentionally bottomed out and they won the prize in wemby.

[Joseph Kony]

:lol the sniffers continuing to tell themselves the Spurs werent intentionally tanking the moment they traded DJ
:lol thinking winning 5 of the first 7 games means anything


:lol horrendous takes

[Mr. Body]

ok?


i think you are

players dont tank. players never lose on purpose. these guys are playing for their next contract.

tanking is an organizational thing. they put the team in a position to not be able to win games, even if the players are earnestly trying and playing hard. you can brush it off as "they didnt want to pay good player a and good player b" but thats what it is. the organization intentionally bottomed out and they won the prize in wemby.

Now you're just trying to parse some completely pointless side thing. And yes, players do tank. Regardless, fuckin' A, the Spurs entered the season not tanking, then they did. That's it. That's the whole story. No one in the world believes they're going to lose on purpose again other than some weird cadre on SpursTalk.

[spurraider21]

Now you're just trying to parse some completely pointless side thing. And yes, players do tank.
nah. these guys are playing for their careers. i dont think tre, keldon, collins, etc were out there trying to lose games. they have no reason to do so. collins is a year away from FA. tre was just in his first free agency. they want bigger paychecks and security. throwing games and tarnishing their film would not be something they'd willingly do.


Regardless, fuckin' A, the Spurs entered the season not tanking, then they did. That's it. That's the whole story.
i disagree. they entered the season having traded away their best player and having added no immediate help. that they won a few early games doesnt convince me of much other than a nice flukey start.


No one in the world believes they're going to lose on purpose again other than some weird cadre on SpursTalk.
i have never said the players lose on purpose, and have said the opposite.

my position is that this offseason, short of using and not trading away the #1 overall pick, the FO has made no moves to improve the odds of winning games this season. i'm not even saying that as a criticism. its just what it is. i think what we are all hoping to see is that guys like vassell, sochan, branham, champagnie, etc all take steps forward in their development such that the team improves organically. im sure thats the FO's expectation as well. but they certainly havent gone out of their way to give the team a talent infusion

[TD 21]

Local Craptors mouthpiece Grange claims in order to consummate Lillard trade, they'd have to lift the protections on the '24 1st and speculates the Spurs could insist on Gradey D (who Spears claims the Trail Blazers have significant interest in) as payment.

Raptors are in the mix for Damian Lillard. But is it a good idea? (sportsnet.ca) (https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/raptors-are-in-the-mix-for-damian-lillard-but-is-it-a-good-idea/)

[spurraider21]

Local Craptors mouthpiece Grange claims in order to consummate Lillard trade, they'd have to lift the protections on the '24 1st and speculates the Spurs could insist on Gradey D (who Spears claims the Trail Blazers have significant interest in) as payment.

Raptors are in the mix for Damian Lillard. But is it a good idea? (sportsnet.ca) (https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/raptors-are-in-the-mix-for-damian-lillard-but-is-it-a-good-idea/)
it seems counter-intuitive that the raptors would pay the spurs to lift protections, though i guess in the context of the raptors acquiring lillard, we'd still think of that as a worse pick for the spurs... ie a top 6 protected 2024 raptors pick is likely a better pick than an unprotected 2024 pick with lillard in the fold

even if we were to grant for the sake of argument that the raptors would pay the spurs for lifting the raptors protection, Dick seems like a steep price. would be pretty awesome from the spurs perspective though. dick would be at the very lest mcdermott's natural successor as he heads into the last year of his deal

cant see it going down that way though

[TD 21]

It sounds like the most likely current scenario is . . .

To Suns: Anunoby and Nurkic
To Trail Blazers: Ayton, Gradey D., Boucher, Porter and draft capital from Craptors
To Craptors: Lillard and Camara.

Spurs need to play hardball and not do Craptors any more favors.

It's an example though, since so many are tied up with contingencies and virtually all have general uncertainty, there's a fine line between patience and overt cautiousness that the Spurs will have to walk with their draft capital.

[exstatic]

Rather than Grady, I'd insist on an unprotected FRP swap WAY out into the future when Dame will be gone. Grady would just be one more mouth to feed at the development trough, and we don't need that right now.

[Bruno]

I guess we all have a different opinion on what "tanking" means.

To clarify my point:
- When you look at Spurs roster, they are so unproven at PF/C. There is Zach Collins, who isn't the most durable player, and 5 players (Sochan, Wembanyama, Mamu, Bassey and Barlow) with very little NBA experience. Sochan, a 20 years old sophomore, is the second most experienced big on the roster which is kinda crazy.
- Wright could have easily add a vet PF/C on an one year contract, dozens were available.
- While obviously not adding that vet open more playing time for the young players, I also think Wright didn't add that player because it would have improved the team.

[exstatic]

I guess we all have a different opinion on what "tanking" means.

To clarify my point:
- When you look at Spurs roster, they are so unproven at PF/C. There is Zach Collins, who isn't the most durable player, and 5 players (Sochan, Wembanyama, Mamu, Bassey and Barlow) with very little NBA experience. Sochan, a 20 years old sophomore, is the second most experienced big on the roster which is kinda crazy.
- Wright could have easily add a vet PF/C on an one year contract, dozens were available.
- While obviously not adding that vet open more playing time for the young players, I also think Wright didn't add that player because it would have improved the team.
I don't think any scrubby center available on a one year would improve the team. Decent quality centers won't sign for one year.

Sochan is the fourth most experienced big. Collins, Mamu, and Bassey all have more games played and seasons than Jeremy.

[spurraider21]

I don't think any scrubby center available on a one year would improve the team. Decent quality centers won't sign for one year.

Sochan is the fourth most experienced big. Collins, Mamu, and Bassey all have more games played and seasons than Jeremy.
1675931579426938881

[Bruno]

Sochan is the fourth most experienced big. Collins, Mamu, and Bassey all have more games played and seasons than Jeremy.

I'm going with minutes played.

[CGD]

Local Craptors mouthpiece Grange claims in order to consummate Lillard trade, they'd have to lift the protections on the '24 1st and speculates the Spurs could insist on Gradey D (who Spears claims the Trail Blazers have significant interest in) as payment.

Raptors are in the mix for Damian Lillard. But is it a good idea? (sportsnet.ca) (https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/raptors-are-in-the-mix-for-damian-lillard-but-is-it-a-good-idea/)

Lift protections seems odd, no? I think he means they’d like to reacquire the pick or make the protections only for this year? That in turns allows the Raps flexibility to also add additional firsts sooner as their 2024 is no longer encumbered. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to me.

And in that case, yeah, insist on Grady Dick as the price.

[CGD]

Rather than Grady, I'd insist on an unprotected FRP swap WAY out into the future when Dame will be gone. Grady would just be one more mouth to feed at the development trough, and we don't need that right now.

I think they’d figure it out for Grady. The development jam point is overstated in my view. Yes they had three picks last year, but they also lost Primo. Im not convinced Wesley sticks, nor do I think the Mamus, Barlows, Champagnes, Basseys get the full “developmental” treatment either. They’re quality fringe guys but still fringe. Tre, Collins, Doug, etc. are who they are. And going forward I think many of the picks get packaged for more established players.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Rather than Grady, I'd insist on an unprotected FRP swap WAY out into the future when Dame will be gone. Grady would just be one more mouth to feed at the development trough, and we don't need that right now.

That makes more sense to me as well.

[spurraider21]

Lift protections seems odd, no? I think he means they’d like to reacquire the pick or make the protections only for this year? That in turns allows the Raps flexibility to also add additional firsts sooner as their 2024 is no longer encumbered. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to me.

And in that case, yeah, insist on Grady Dick as the price.
nah, they'd lift the protections such that the spurs basically get the raptors unprotected 2024 pick (as opposed to top 6 protected). since the pick is guaranteed to convey in 2024, it frees up their ability to trade their 2026 and 2028 picks. also frees up their ability to offer a swap in 2025. right now, the pick is top 6 protected in 2024, 2025, and 2026 so they cant trade any other FRPs until 2028.

typically, lifting the protection is meant to benefit the team receiving the pick (here, the spurs). but in this case, an unprotected 2024 first from a raptors team starring Siakam/Lillard is probably a pretty bad one well into the 20s, whereas the protected first from the current version of the raptors likely yields a pick in the teens

given that dynamic, the spurs would be able to ask for an asset in exchange for making the pick unprotected as part of a larger lillard trade

[CGD]

nah, they'd lift the protections such that the spurs basically get the raptors unprotected 2024 pick (as opposed to top 6 protected). since the pick is guaranteed to convey in 2024, it frees up their ability to trade their 2026 and 2028 picks. also frees up their ability to offer a swap in 2025. right now, the pick is top 6 protected in 2024, 2025, and 2026 so they cant trade any other FRPs until 2028.

typically, lifting the protection is meant to benefit the team receiving the pick (here, the spurs). but in this case, an unprotected 2024 first from a raptors team starring Siakam/Lillard is probably a pretty bad one well into the 20s, whereas the protected first from the current version of the raptors likely yields a pick in the teens

given that dynamic, the spurs would be able to ask for an asset in exchange for making the pick unprotected as part of a larger lillard trade

That’s what I figured. It’s about them being able to trade more of their picks sooner. And, agreed, an unprotected 24TOR FRP appeals less to me with a Dame-Paskal-Barnes-Jakob starting line up.

[exstatic]

I think they’d figure it out for Grady. The development jam point is overstated in my view. Yes they had three picks last year, but they also lost Primo. Im not convinced Wesley sticks, nor do I think the Mamus, Barlows, Champagnes, Basseys get the full “developmental” treatment either. They’re quality fringe guys but still fringe. Tre, Collins, Doug, etc. are who they are. And going forward I think many of the picks get packaged for more established players.

We could have 3 picks next year. We could have 3 picks in 2025. It’s not overstated, and it’s not just about roster spots. Young players need to be developed, not just rostered.

[exstatic]

Lift protections seems odd, no? I think he means they’d like to reacquire the pick or make the protections only for this year? That in turns allows the Raps flexibility to also add additional firsts sooner as their 2024 is no longer encumbered. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to me.

And in that case, yeah, insist on Grady Dick as the price.

That pick is locked up until 2026, because it might not convey in 24,25, or 26, so they can’t trade a FRP until 2028, limiting the number of FRPs they can flip to PDX in a Lillard trade. If they lift the protections, the pick WILL convey in 2024, and they can start with a swap to PDX in 2025,and go out from there to 2030..

[exstatic]

That’s what I figured. It’s about them being able to trade more of their picks sooner. And, agreed, an unprotected 24TOR FRP appeals less to me with a Dame-Paskal-Barnes-Jakob starting line up.

That’s why you get compensation for agreeing to alter the trade parameters. The pick goes from a likely 7-14 scenario to sure fire mid to late 20s.

[Mr. Body]

I guess we all have a different opinion on what "tanking" means.

To clarify my point:
- When you look at Spurs roster, they are so unproven at PF/C. There is Zach Collins, who isn't the most durable player, and 5 players (Sochan, Wembanyama, Mamu, Bassey and Barlow) with very little NBA experience. Sochan, a 20 years old sophomore, is the second most experienced big on the roster which is kinda crazy.
- Wright could have easily add a vet PF/C on an one year contract, dozens were available.
- While obviously not adding that vet open more playing time for the young players, I also think Wright didn't add that player because it would have improved the team.

Tanking means losing on purpose. Full stop.

[Mr. Body]

Kind of wild that the Spurs may benefit from removing the protections on this pick. I also think Gradey Dick is wild overpay and think ex is right that the Spurs may not even have a spot for him. He'd go into the Champagnie slot and I think they value him a lot right now. My feeling is the Spurs would likely get SRPs or similar.

[scott]

Can’t wait to make the playoffs again simply so we can stop arguing about whether we are tanking or if we just suck

[baseline bum]

Kind of wild that the Spurs may benefit from removing the protections on this pick. I also think Gradey Dick is wild overpay and think ex is right that the Spurs may not even have a spot for him. He'd go into the Champagnie slot and I think they value him a lot right now. My feeling is the Spurs would likely get SRPs or similar.

Have him back up Vassell. If the Spurs are tanking the value of that pick by allowing them trade for Lillard I don't want SRPs, they need something big in return.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If TOR doesn't do the Dame trade, that pick will likely be a mid to late lottery (#7-14) FRP. If they do, it will likely fall in the mid to late 20s. I don't see Grady, picked at #13, as an overpay, since that would be inside the pick range we should have gotten with the 1-6 protected pick. Even if it's a bit of an overpay, they literally can't do a Dame trade without our cooperation in restructuring the previous Poeltl trade pick protections. We have their feet to the fire.

That being said, I'd prefer an unprotected 2029 FRP swap, since we already have swaps for 2028 and 2030. Almost all of our war chest could convey in the next two years, up to 4 FRPs, plus our own 2 for a total of 6. Further out, we have swaps in 2026, 2028 (#1 prot), and 2030, plus the ATL 2027 pick, but we could used that 2029 swap to fit right into the empty year slot where we have nothing currently. I wasn't that impressed with GD in the NCAAs. Anthony Black just defensively stoned him head to head in their game.

We are in essentially the same situation with Chicago. They are supposedly after Dame as well and would need to release the protections on the 2025 pick the Spurs own. That one actually encumbers 2024-2027's FRPs for the Bulls. It's incredible that these franchises are lining up to mortgage their futures for a guy who won't put either team over the top IMO and even more incredible that SA is in a position to reap significant benefits to help them do it.

[spurraider21]

If TOR doesn't do the Dame trade, that pick will likely be a mid to late lottery (#7-14) FRP. If they do, it will likely fall in the mid to late 20s. I don't see Grady, picked at #13, as an overpay, since that would be inside the pick range we should have gotten with the 1-6 protected pick. Even if it's a bit of an overpay, they literally can't do a Dame trade without our cooperation in restructuring the previous Poeltl trade pick protections. We have their feet to the fire.

That being said, I'd prefer an unprotected 2029 FRP swap, since we already have swaps for 2028 and 2030. Almost all of our war chest could convey in the next two years, up to 4 FRPs, plus our own 2 for a total of 6. Further out, we have swaps in 2026, 2028 (#1 prot), and 2030, plus the ATL 2027 pick, but we could used that 2029 swap to fit right into the empty year slot where we have nothing currently. I wasn't that impressed with GD in the NCAAs. Anthony Black just defensively stoned him head to head in their game.
Dick seems like such an easy projection to make, though. It's not just that he's an accurate outside shooter, but he does so on volume and has shown the ability to be able to shoot well on the move, and shows the instincts to move well off the ball, cut, and in the tournament had a number of timely offensive rebounds. He can also pick up quite a bit by shadowing McDermott for a year as he's expiring and might be a deadline sell anyway. These type of release valve shooters always have value, and while he's no ace, he appears to be less of a defensive liability than other college sharpshooters we've seen.

Its also notable that he seemed to have this advanced feel for movement even as a freshman. a lot of the college shooting phenoms we've seen like McDermott, Redick, Korver, Fredette, Steph, Klay, etc all played 3-4 years of college ball during which time they added some of those elements to their game. Dick seems ready to hit the floor running. Would be nice to have someone like that locked up on a rookie scale deal. We saw how much McDermott cost

its been a long time since the spurs as a team have been an above average 3 point shooting team. in the modern nba thats a death sentence

[BacktoBasics]

I’m not a huge fan of GD but I like his energy and he definitely seems like the kind of player personality that would mesh well here.

[Mr. Body]

The idea the Spurs can pull a Gradey Dick or similar out of this trade is pretty far fetched. I understand the Spurs have leverage, if Portland wants earlier picks from Toronto, but there are other options to get it done. Sending Dick to SAS just makes an expensive deal exorbitant. If there is any interest in getting the Spurs to lower protections, the Spurs have incentive to do it, too. I'd expect some lesser considerations.

[spurraider21]

The idea the Spurs can pull a Gradey Dick or similar out of this trade is pretty far fetched. I understand the Spurs have leverage, if Portland wants earlier picks from Toronto, but there are other options to get it done. Sending Dick to SAS just makes an expensive deal exorbitant. If there is any interest in getting the Spurs to lower protections, the Spurs have incentive to do it, too. I'd expect some lesser considerations.
agreed. i think dick is too steep from Toronto's perspective. unless the spurs were willing to throw in at least a SRP or two

plus if any of this reporting is to be believed, i think portland wants dick back as part of a deal

[exstatic]

Dick seems like such an easy projection to make, though. It's not just that he's an accurate outside shooter, but he does so on volume and has shown the ability to be able to shoot well on the move, and shows the instincts to move well off the ball, cut, and in the tournament had a number of timely offensive rebounds. He can also pick up quite a bit by shadowing McDermott for a year as he's expiring and might be a deadline sell anyway. These type of release valve shooters always have value, and while he's no ace, he appears to be less of a defensive liability than other college sharpshooters we've seen.

Its also notable that he seemed to have this advanced feel for movement even as a freshman. a lot of the college shooting phenoms we've seen like McDermott, Redick, Korver, Fredette, Steph, Klay, etc all played 3-4 years of college ball during which time they added some of those elements to their game. Dick seems ready to hit the floor running. Would be nice to have someone like that locked up on a rookie scale deal. We saw how much McDermott cost

its been a long time since the spurs as a team have been an above average 3 point shooting team. in the modern nba thats a death sentence

I wouldn't hate getting GD, I'd just prefer the unprotected 2029 swap down the road. We're going to have a hard time in the future getting picks like we have been and still can for a year or so, so I'd like to kick some of that down the road.

[exstatic]

The idea the Spurs can pull a Gradey Dick or similar out of this trade is pretty far fetched. I understand the Spurs have leverage, if Portland wants earlier picks from Toronto, but there are other options to get it done. Sending Dick to SAS just makes an expensive deal exorbitant. If there is any interest in getting the Spurs to lower protections, the Spurs have incentive to do it, too. I'd expect some lesser considerations.

We have zero incentive to do it. If they get Dame, that pick goes from mid lottery after they flip Siakam to not lose him next summer, to mid 20s. That's a huge nut punch.

What are those other Toronto options? Does someone else hold a pick that literally holds their trade hostage? We, OTOH, have another option, apparently, in Chicago, holding their pick hostage for the same Dame trade. Toronto has no other options that don't deplete their roster and make the trade less valuable. They need picks, in the near term, and we hold the one and only key to them that doesn't deplete their roster.

[Mr. Body]

agreed. i think dick is too steep from Toronto's perspective. unless the spurs were willing to throw in at least a SRP or two

plus if any of this reporting is to be believed, i think portland wants dick back as part of a deal

I'd love to squeeze assets out of nothing. If anything, the Spurs might try to jump in to salvage something out of a pick that increasingly looks worse. I think Toronto can trade 2028 and 2030 without changes. Assuming Portland likes Dick, they take Dick. If they don't, they can probably flip him for something Portland values.

Toronto just has to bid against Miami, whose package doesn't look great. I don't even know if Lillard wants to go to Toronto anyway, but if he does and the above scenario emerges, it would behoove the Spurs to try to save their pick. If so, Toronto can probably keep Dick and Portland gets more of what they want.

Just don't know what the compensation would be.

[Mr. Body]

We have zero incentive to do it. If they get Dame, that pick goes from mid lottery after they flip Siakam to not lose him next summer, to mid 20s. That's a huge nut punch.

I meant to say the Spurs have incentive to work on a deal in order to get something out of it.

[exstatic]

I meant to say the Spurs have incentive to work on a deal in order to get something out of it.

Why? They're looking to move Siakam so he doesn't walk like FVV next summer if there is no Dame trade. That puts that pick in the lottery, mid to late. I'm totally fine with that, as I imagine BW is, and you'd have to come up with something to make it worth my while, like your lottery pick from last year.

[exstatic]

I'd love to squeeze assets out of nothing. If anything, the Spurs might try to jump in to salvage something out of a pick that increasingly looks worse. I think Toronto can trade 2028 and 2030 without changes. Assuming Portland likes Dick, they take Dick. If they don't, they can probably flip him for something Portland values.

Toronto just has to bid against Miami, whose package doesn't look great. I don't even know if Lillard wants to go to Toronto anyway, but if he does and the above scenario emerges, it would behoove the Spurs to try to save their pick. If so, Toronto can probably keep Dick and Portland gets more of what they want.

Just don't know what the compensation would be.

The only way the Toronto trade gets done is if we allow it to. I don't think Portland wants two picks and two swaps way down the road, which is all Toronto can manage right now, swaps in 27 and 29, picks in 28 and 30. No trade, and we probably get a lottery pick next summer.

[baseline bum]

agreed. i think dick is too steep from Toronto's perspective. unless the spurs were willing to throw in at least a SRP or two

plus if any of this reporting is to be believed, i think portland wants dick back as part of a deal

Give them two SRP, flipping that protected Toronto pick for Dick would be a nice haul. Bare minimum he would be a nice role player off the bench with his shooting.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The pick goes from a likely 7-14 scenario to sure fire mid to late 20s.

Sure fire? Damian Lillard is 33 and can't stay healthy. Toronto is also going to have to gut a decent amount of their roster to get him. Nothing would be more hilarious than Toronto giving up assets to remove the protections and the pick still being near the top of the draft.

Beyond that, this argument about tanking is just weird. The Spurs were actively not trying to win games last year. Disregarding the roster moves (Murray, White, Poeltl), they rested guys with bogus injuries and played with the defensive intensity of the Washington Generals.

They may very well suck again this year, but there is zero point in them actively trying to lose games. They already hit the jackpot with Wemby, and there is not a no-brainer generational talent waiting at the end of the rainbow in next years draft. The best player in the draft may very well not go first, or even in the top 5 or 10 picks. And if there is somebody that they fall in love with, they have the picks and young assets to move up to get him. You could argue that they have too many picks and assets, and would be better off moving some of them or pushing them further down the road.

In any event, there is no reason for them to be actively trying to lose games going forward. It's time to start re-instilling the winning culture, even if it doesn't manifest in a lot more wins.

[Mr. Body]

The only way the Toronto trade gets done is if we allow it to. I don't think Portland wants two picks and two swaps way down the road, which is all Toronto can manage right now, swaps in 27 and 29, picks in 28 and 30. No trade, and we probably get a lottery pick next summer.

All Toronto needs to do is beat Miami. The need to be the faster runner with two runners against the bear. Portland seems to value Anunoby much more than Herro. The rest just seems to be how the coffers are filled. Miami can offer a couple late decade picks, Toronto can offer a couple late decade picks. Miami can throw in Jacquez and Jovic -- although it sounds like they're underbidding with Herro + 2 picks. Toronto can throw in Gradey Dick. Maybe like Achiuwa.

The Toronto package is simply better for Portland as it is. It beats Miami. The Spurs don't necessarily have to be involved at all.

[Mr. Body]

Give them two SRP, flipping that protected Toronto pick for Dick would be a nice haul. Bare minimum he would be a nice role player off the bench with his shooting.

I think you mean two SRPs and dropping the protections but keeping the pick for Gradey Dick. I don't think that happens. I'm wondering what situation the Spurs can peel Dick off but don't know any examples where a trade was done to remove protections. Just theoreticals, it feels more like giving the Charlotte pick plus two SRPs to drop the protections, but that doesn't seem enough. I'd do it, though.

There's talk that Ayton and Nurkic would be on the move somehow anyway, so if anything happens this could be bigger than just three teams.

[exstatic]

All Toronto needs to do is beat Miami. The need to be the faster runner with two runners against the bear. Portland seems to value Anunoby much more than Herro. The rest just seems to be how the coffers are filled. Miami can offer a couple late decade picks, Toronto can offer a couple late decade picks. Miami can throw in Jacquez and Jovic -- although it sounds like they're underbidding with Herro + 2 picks. Toronto can throw in Gradey Dick. Maybe like Achiuwa.

The Toronto package is simply better for Portland as it is. It beats Miami. The Spurs don't necessarily have to be involved at all.

No, they need to beat Miami and Chicago, who is also interested in removing our pick protections, for a cost.

[TD 21]

Sure fire? Damian Lillard is 33 and can't stay healthy. Toronto is also going to have to gut a decent amount of their roster to get him. Nothing would be more hilarious than Toronto giving up assets to remove the protections and the pick still being near the top of the draft.

He's more durable than the recent perception and the depth hinges on Trent Jr. (Craptors need to retain him if Gradey D is an automatic). Otherwise, Anunoby is the only notable loss.

They'd still have a top 8 (Lillard, Trent Jr., Barnes, Siakam, Poeltl, Schroder, Achiuwa, McDaniels) that while spacing challenged, could talent their way to a low-mid 20s pick with health/clutch time fortune.

The Spurs have all the leverage to extract max value.

[exstatic]

Sure fire? Damian Lillard is 33 and can't stay healthy. Toronto is also going to have to gut a decent amount of their roster to get him. Nothing would be more hilarious than Toronto giving up assets to remove the protections and the pick still being near the top of the draft.

Beyond that, this argument about tanking is just weird. The Spurs were actively not trying to win games last year. Disregarding the roster moves (Murray, White, Poeltl), they rested guys with bogus injuries and played with the defensive intensity of the Washington Generals.

They may very well suck again this year, but there is zero point in them actively trying to lose games. They already hit the jackpot with Wemby, and there is not a no-brainer generational talent waiting at the end of the rainbow in next years draft. The best player in the draft may very well not go first, or even in the top 5 or 10 picks. And if there is somebody that they fall in love with, they have the picks and young assets to move up to get him. You could argue that they have too many picks and assets, and would be better off moving some of them or pushing them further down the road.

In any event, there is no reason for them to be actively trying to lose games going forward. It's time to start re-instilling the winning culture, even if it doesn't manifest in a lot more wins.

It's interesting that you see clearly the bogus Spurs injuries from last year, but don't seen the bogus Lillard injuries of the last two seasons to late tank for better draft positioning.

Toronto isn't going to strip the pick protections unless they see themselves as a top 4 team in the East with Dame. They'd be stupid to even make the trade at all if they didn't. I don't expect Dame to earn his salary at the end of this contract, but they'll get 2-3 really strong years from him. The trade, if it happens, will likely be Siakam, who they're already actively trying to move, plus filler *(Siakam and Thad young works) and a boatload of picks. Their roster will be in no way gutted.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

It's interesting that you see clearly the bogus Spurs injuries from last year, but don't seen the bogus Lillard injuries of the last two seasons to late tank for better draft positioning.

Toronto isn't going to strip the pick protections unless they see themselves as a top 4 team in the East with Dame. They'd be stupid to even make the trade at all if they didn't. I don't expect Dame to earn his salary at the end of this contract, but they'll get 2-3 really strong years from him. The trade, if it happens, will likely be Siakam, who they're already actively trying to move, plus filler *(Siakam and Thad young works) and a boatload of picks. Their roster will be in no way gutted.

Fair enough regarding the injuries, but the Blazers were 27-31 with Lillard last season and 15-14 with him the year before that. Even healthy, there's no guarantee that Toronto is a top 4 team in the East. They were a 41 win team last season. How much better are they minus Siakam and VanVleet, but plus Lillard? I guess it depends on whether Barnes is who he looked like in year 1 vs year 2, but he's not exactly on a positive trajectory. Even with Lillard, I don't like their roster more than Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, Miami or Cleveland.

[Mr. Body]

No, they need to beat Miami and Chicago, who is also interested in removing our pick protections, for a cost.

Who is the centerpiece Chicago can offer? They don't have anyone who beats Anunoby.

[Seventyniner]

If I'm the Spurs, I see that Toronto could be pretty bad this year, so helping them cement a playoff spot and making it harder for the Charlotte pick to convey is a non-starter. I don't think Gradey Dick is enough incentive to give that up.

[Mr. Body]

If I'm the Spurs, I see that Toronto could be pretty bad this year, so helping them cement a playoff spot and making it harder for the Charlotte pick to convey is a non-starter. I don't think Gradey Dick is enough incentive to give that up.

If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.

That’s only if they are willing to wait 4 years for their first pick and to only get 2 actual picks. Most GMs aren’t secure enough in their jobs to go for that deal.

[Mr. Body]

That’s only if they are willing to wait 4 years for their first pick and to only get 2 actual picks. Most GMs aren’t secure enough in their jobs to go for that deal.

Where else are they getting the picks?

[exstatic]

Who is the centerpiece Chicago can offer? They don't have anyone who beats Anunoby.

Picks are the important part. PDX won’t be building a team around Anunoby. He’s a 26 YO supporting piece.

[exstatic]

If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.

They can’t change the terms of the Poeltl deal without our consent, so not only is it not an overreaction, it’s 100% true.

[exstatic]

Where else are they getting the picks?

If they work with us, they can start trading picks two years earlier. That’s extra picks to trade.

[Ariel]

If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.
Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 (to make '28 and '30 available) per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.

[spurraider21]

Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.
to be fair, if you're portland, you probably want picks that are further out since the raptors picks will likely be well into the 20's while lillard is still playing at a high level. but just 2 firsts that are 3 and 5 years out will not be enough to land an all nba player

[Ariel]

Give them two SRP, flipping that protected Toronto pick for Dick would be a nice haul. Bare minimum he would be a nice role player off the bench with his shooting.
I think the Spurs can do much better than Gradey Dick with the Toronto pick. If they really want to go all in for Dame, I think probably an unrestricted '26 Toronto pick might the the only thing I'd consider, since that class has a few very good prospects (including Cam Boozer) and Dame and Siakam would be on the tail end of their careers. Maybe even that's not enough.

[Ariel]

to be fair, if you're portland, you probably want picks that are further out since the raptors picks will likely be well into the 20's while lillard is still playing at a high level. but just 2 firsts that are 3 and 5 years out will not be enough to land an all nba player
As it stands they can only offer 2 picks ('28 and '30) and 2 swaps ('27 and '29), but say they renegotiate with the Spurs for their unrestricted '26 pick instead. Then Toronto can offer Portland 3 picks ('24, '28 and '30) plus 3 swaps ('25, '27 and '29). That package might be enough for Portland to leave Anunoby off the table, and that's HUGE if they're going all in with Dame for a short window of 2 years at most. Dame/Anunoby/Barnes/Siakam/Poeltl isn't really a contender in my eyes but surely a playoff team that can make it past the 1st round and even get to the ECF if all goes right (no injuries, Scottie Barnes develops with the shooting around him).

[CGD]

I think the Spurs can do much better than Gradey Dick with the Toronto pick. If they really want to go all in for Dame, I think probably an unrestricted '26 Toronto pick might the the only thing I'd consider, since that class has a few very good prospects (including Cam Boozer) and Dame and Siakam would be on the tail end of their careers. Maybe even that's not enough.

I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.

[scott]

If the Spurs could somehow materialize Dick for nothing, that would be amazing, but I'm not holding my breath. If it did happen, however, it really frees you up to start dealing the pick war chest for the other pieces you need (PG). However, I'm probably higher on Dick that some smarter people on this board (who are probably right).

If I am Portland, the an Unprotected FRP in 26 from TOR has to be part of the deal. That's a projected year with "generational talent" so that's a year (is Flagg still in this class or did he reclass to 25?) I have to be acquiring capital for. It would be foolish to let the Spurs get it and take a 24 pick instead.

[Mr. Body]

Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 (to make '28 and '30 available) per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.

Yeah, no shit. I understand. Miami can't give any picks other than later in the decade. Why would Toronto waste a significant asset to remove the protections when it's not necessary for the trade?

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yeah, no shit. I understand. Miami can't give any picks other than later in the decade. Why would Toronto waste a significant asset to remove the protections when it's not necessary for the trade?

Portland has already shown that 2 FRPs is not going to get Dame. You have to do more than beat Miami you have to meet a minimum threshold that Miami hasn’t reached yet.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Portland has already shown that 2 FRPs is not going to get Dame. You have to do more than beat Miami you have to meet a minimum threshold that Miami hasn’t reached yet.

Anunoby, Dick and picks in ‘28 and ‘30 is a way better offer than Miami could do.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Anunoby, Dick and picks in ‘28 and ‘30 is a way better offer than Miami could do.

The max offer from Heat could be 3 tradable first-round picks, Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, rookie first-round pick Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Caleb Martin. So while they aren’t going to trade all 3 young guys it is pretty comparable. Portland seems to prefer Anunoby over Herro so that’s a big plus for Toronto, but Portland is going to get 3 FRPs offered by someone.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The max offer from Heat could be 3 tradable first-round picks, Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, rookie first-round pick Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Caleb Martin. So while they aren’t going to trade all 3 young guys it is pretty comparable. Portland seems to prefer Anunoby over Herro so that’s a big plus for Toronto, but Portland is going to get 3 FRPs offered by someone.

Well it depends on how Portland value the assets. They definitely don’t need Herro and it doesn’t seem like anyone else is willing to pay much for him. Dick vs Jovic and Jaquez is a wash but the former is probably a better fit for them. Anunoby is probably worth a couple of protected firsts himself and far off unprotected picks and swaps from Toronto are definitely a good bet compared to similar ones from Miami.

There’s also the bad blood between Portland and Miami and it all comes down to whether Lillard is willing to report in Toronto. I bet he would in the end. The biggest question is whether Toronto would prefer to keep Anunoby as well and overwhelm with picks, in which case they may look for the Spurs to relieve the protections of the ‘24 pick or be a third team in the deal sending it to Portland for something.

[EricB]

:bang Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent, the Lakers could have matched ANYTHING the Spurs offered and (for all we know) WOULD HAVE. So let's stop pretending like he was gift wrapped and the Spurs fumbled it away.


there would’ve been zero downside and it’s not 100% for sure maxing him they match.

we’ll never know cause the front office played it like cowards

[Mr. Body]

there would’ve been zero downside and it’s not 100% for sure maxing him they match.

we’ll never know cause the front office played it like cowards

The downside was they couldn't have negotiated the Bullock trade that netted them the Dallas pick swap.

[TD 21]

Anunoby is injury prone, delusional (wants an on-ball role) and a free agent next off season.

Lightly - unprotected picks that will convey when Lillard is in decline - retired sound great in theory, but few executives have the luxury of long term job security and Cronin isn't one of them.

The Craptors lack the draft capital to overwhelm with picks and that's also too risky to trade a player of this magnitude strictly for unproven assets.

[exstatic]

Anunoby is injury prone, delusional (wants an on-ball role) and a free agent next off season.

Lightly - unprotected picks that will convey when Lillard is in decline - retired sound great in theory, but few executives have the luxury of long term job security and Cronin isn't one of them.

The Craptors lack the draft capital to overwhelm with picks and that's also too risky to trade a player of this magnitude strictly for unproven assets.

Only if they don't negotiate to drop the protections on the 24 pick we have. If they do, they can ship a 25 swap,26,27swap,28, 29 swap,30, flipping us Gradey for taking part. If they don't, then you're right, they can only ship out a 27 swap,28,29 swap,30.

[mo7888]

I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.

Yep. There are a couple ways Toronto can get it done with our help.

[Mr. Body]

I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.

My whole riddle is what it would take to drop the protections. Another FRP, as you say, would be too much. I'm not sure more SRPs appeal, but may be the most they can get. A future swap is probably too rich and getting a young player is right out. A GM would get pilloried by fans and ownership for giving up a Gradey Dick for apparently nothing. Perceptions and market costs matter.

I think we're seeing the risk of protecting picks. With the changes to the lottery system, drawing a top 4 pick is highly unlikely anyway, and it may be better to just give up a pick straightaway than reduce your options for making trades. Thunder seem to have been trying to bend Miami over a barrel to get rid of their protections earlier in the summer.

[exstatic]

My whole riddle is what it would take to drop the protections. Another FRP, as you say, would be too much. I'm not sure more SRPs appeal, but may be the most they can get. A future swap is probably too rich and getting a young player is right out. A GM would get pilloried by fans and ownership for giving up a Gradey Dick for apparently nothing. Perceptions and market costs matter.

I think we're seeing the risk of protecting picks. With the changes to the lottery system, drawing a top 4 pick is highly unlikely anyway, and it may be better to just give up a pick straightaway than reduce your options for making trades. Thunder seem to have been trying to bend Miami over a barrel to get rid of their protections earlier in the summer.

Long term protections, certainly. I hate to say it, but the LAL may have set the new model with the Westbrook trade to Utah: one year, 1-4 protection, and if it falls in the one year window and doesn't convey, it turns to a SRP.

One of the most ridiculous picks was one that Portland traded to Chicago, 1-14 protected for 24,25,26,27,28.

[Spurs Homer]

so...no trade yet...ok

[mo7888]

Lilliard to Bucks

Woj

[spurraider21]

wowza

[Texas_Ranger]

Sources: Portland, Milwaukee and Phoenix have agreed to a three-team trade:

Bucks get: Damian Lillard
Suns: Jusuf Nurkic
Blazers: Deandre Ayton

Lillard goes Milwaukee as part of a 3-team deal with Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, a 2029 unprotected MIL 1st, and unprotected MIL swap rights in 2028 and 2030 to Blazers. Phoenix lands Jusuf Nurkic, Grayson Allen, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson.

[mo7888]

Looks like Portland wanted players over picks...holiday and Ayton

[Robz4000]

:wow

:lmao Miami

[Joseph Kony]

Damn, that was unexpected :lol

Miami fans have been acting like a bunch of dickwads though since Dame demanded out, so this is pretty hilarious

[spurraider21]

:lmao miami fans in shambles

[spurraider21]

Looks like Portland wanted players over picks...holiday and Ayton
holiday can still be re-routed

[ginobilized]

Highly interesting....

Holiday will be a tough loss for the Bucks, but, a great mentor for Scoot. Makes a ton of sense for PDX

Giannis, Lillard and Middleton offer a very strong offensive team

Not sure that PHX got better, but, that seems to be their style

[ginobilized]

holiday can still be re-routed

Hmmm.....he'd make a great Spur, but, I doubt that's in the cards

[GAustex]

Dam
Missed out on Hero
Oh well
Anyway

[spurraider21]

Hmmm.....he'd make a great Spur, but, I doubt that's in the cards
part of why i loved anthony black in the draft is that i likened him to Holiday. i love the player but that move wouldnt make sense. he's 33

[BatManu20]

:lmao miami fans in shambles

They really thought they were getting Dame for breadcrumbs :lol

[poopbox]

Looks like Portland wanted players over picks...holiday and Ayton

No way they keep Holiday, he getting traded for picks or a younger player at some point

[Seventyniner]

Adrian Wojnarowski (https://twitter.com/wojespn)@wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)
The Blazers remain engaged elsewhere on deals and will are expected to immediately engage contending teams on trade talks to move on Jrue Holiday, sources tell ESPN. Portland is committed to its young group of talented guards.

Lillard goes Milwaukee as part of a 3-team deal with Jrue Holiday, Deandre Ayton, Toumani Camara, a 2029 unprotected MIL 1st, and unprotected MIL swap rights in 2028 and 2030 to Blazers. Phoenix lands Jusuf Nurkic, Grayson Allen, Nassir Little and Keon Johnson. twitter.com/wojespn/status…

1:20 PM · Sep 27, 2023 (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1707097881604403330)



Tweet embedding wasn't working for me. Looks like Holiday won't be staying in Portland, but no chance he comes to the Spurs imo.

[BatManu20]

Trade Jrue to the Spurs and call it a day. Veteran PG we desperately need :cry

[BatManu20]

Tbh as long as Jrue doesn’t go to the lakers I’m good.

Also rooting for a Nuggets — Bucks Finals. That would be sick tbh.

[BacktoBasics]

Okay deal to decent deal for Portland. Seems like they might be competitive enough to knock on the door of the play in.

Great move for the Bucks. Brilliant move.

I don’t see how this is a good move for the Suns other than it puts the Ayton speculations to rest before the season starts. Nurkic isn’t an upgrade.

[RC_Drunkford]

Trade Jrue to the Spurs and call it a day. Veteran PG we desperately need :cry

yup. Only 1 year + player option, meaning 2 years. Give the Blazers some expiring contracts and a bunch of 2nds

[BatManu20]

Okay deal to decent deal for Portland. Seems like they might be competitive enough to knock on the door of the play in.

Great move for the Bucks. Brilliant move.

I don’t see how this is a good move for the Suns other than it puts the Ayton speculations to rest before the season starts. Nurkic isn’t an upgrade.

Nurkic can’t even stay on the floor. Dude’s been perpetually injured his entire career it feels like. This trade was all about those 3 future unprotected draft picks/pick swaps for the Blazers. Those could end up being really valuable if/when the Bucks suck in 6-7 years.

[BatManu20]

yup. Only 1 year + player option, meaning 2 years. Give the Blazers some expiring contracts and a bunch of 2nds

They'll try to do right by Jrue and trade him to a contender I’m sure. But he’d be a great fit for us tbh.

[rjv]

i don't know if the blazers trade away jrue; he's the perfect mentor for scoot.

[spurraider21]

:lmao what a bitch

1707104640116887919

[spurraider21]

how do you tamper in a trade? :lol

[rjv]

how do you tamper in a trade? :lol

and we all know the heat never tampered

[jmard5]

Stealthy move...

[rjv]

i don't know if the blazers trade away jrue; he's the perfect mentor for scoot.

well, shit, i guess they are gonna try and move him

[timtonymanu]

Lol Butler.
Lol locker room diva mistaken for “leadership”
Lol 2 finals losses in a row

[Dverde]

holiday can still be re-routed

I hear Miami need a play making PG. Tyler Herro and some firsts? :lol

[Leetonidas]

Awful return for Portland. Suns also played themselves. Milwaukee made out like bandits

[Mr. Body]

Haha wow who had this on their dance card.

- Miami fuck off

- Portland took late firsts anyway

- Suns get rid of the Ayton error. This saves them a TON of money

- Improves Suns' depth

- Milwaukee obvs with the stealth kill. Brilliant move

Dunno about Portland. They can flip Jrue for some nice pieces. Ayton fills an important slot, but he has the same mentality as Sharpe: lazy, disinterested, doesn't care and won't improve. Can Scoot be the leader this team needs?

This is the same picks package the Spurs got for Dejounte. Man did we start in on getting picks when the market was still there.

[Mr. Body]

Holiday to Heat -- Herro to Jazz -- compensation to Portland?

[cd98]

Awful return for Portland. Suns also played themselves. Milwaukee made out like bandits

Really? I think the draft pick and draft swap are valuable if Giannis leaves and Damian Lillard is 33. He'll help the Bucks for maybe two years. Will Giannis stay with the Bucks? If not, the draft consideration will be very good. I think that Portland got as good a haul as you can get for a 33 year old point guard that needs speed to be effective.

[Mr. Body]

Really? I think the draft pick and draft swap are valuable if Giannis leaves and Damian Lillard is 33. He'll help the Bucks for maybe two years. Will Giannis stay with the Bucks? If not, the draft consideration will be very good. I think that Portland got as good a haul as you can get for a 33 year old point guard that needs speed to be effective.

It's the same draft package any team was offering.

[cd98]

It's the same draft package any team was offering.

Well, I guess my point would be that no one was offering a better package. Durrant will be good, like Lebron, until he's like 38. So a haul for him is justifiable. But this guy will not be elite in three years, so basically what is his worst for 2 years of him slightly below his prime? About what Portland got. Portland's mistake was not trading him three years ago when they could have gotten an awesome haul for him.

[Dverde]

Holiday to Heat -- Herro to Jazz -- compensation to Portland?

Holiday to Toronto makes sense and fits their culture.

[spurraider21]

Holiday to Heat -- Herro to Jazz -- compensation to Portland?
only question is how we expand this to include Reaves to Spurs

[Davidicus]

Woj "you cant judge this trade until you see what Portland can get for Jrue Holiday"

Lets go get him!

[NASpurs]

Woj "you cant judge this trade until you see what Portland can get for Jrue Holiday"

Lets go get him!

How many second round picks would it take?

[Davidicus]

How many second round picks would it take?

Fiddy

[Mr. Body]

Well, I guess my point would be that no one was offering a better package. Durrant will be good, like Lebron, until he's like 38. So a haul for him is justifiable. But this guy will not be elite in three years, so basically what is his worst for 2 years of him slightly below his prime? About what Portland got. Portland's mistake was not trading him three years ago when they could have gotten an awesome haul for him.

I agree. I don't think it's horrible for Portland tbh. The market is really poor right now.

Ayton gives the team balance. He makes a horrible $32-35 million/year for the next three years. They have young inexpensive players so it's fine for now. Not sure you'd want to extend him after that.

Jrue can get flipped for something, which is good.

Anunoby was a free agent after this year and stands to make bucks anywhere other than Portland; they'd not likely be able to keep him.

The Miami offer was just a non-starter from the jump.

[LeBowen]

Massive win for the entire league.

Competent enough front office to not fold and give in to Riley's bullying.
Hopefully this shows every small market front office that there's no need to accept deals from LA and Miami just because of nonsense by media mouthpieces and talk about players refusing to be traded anywhere else.
Noone will ever refuse to play, the league would step in.

Funnies thing is that Lillard got to an even better team and Bucks are easily the best team in the East now.
Sixers might aswell blow it up, it was already a losing battle with their current roster situation, but it's too far gone now. Get the haul for Embiid before he gets injured again.

[exstatic]

Haha wow who had this on their dance card.

- Miami fuck off

- Portland took late firsts anyway

- Suns get rid of the Ayton error. This saves them a TON of money

- Improves Suns' depth

- Milwaukee obvs with the stealth kill. Brilliant move

Dunno about Portland. They can flip Jrue for some nice pieces. Ayton fills an important slot, but he has the same mentality as Sharpe: lazy, disinterested, doesn't care and won't improve. Can Scoot be the leader this team needs?

This is the same picks package the Spurs got for Dejounte. Man did we start in on getting picks when the market was still there.

Actually, we got two unprotected FRPs and an unprotected swap, plus the undetermined CHA FRP. Portland got two unprotected swaps and one unprotected FRP. We got more for Dejounte.

[John B]

Awful return for Portland. Suns also played themselves. Milwaukee made out like bandits

3 unprotected 1st when Giannis is already done should be lottery picks

[ducks]

Ayton act could be the suns coach hated him and refused to coach him
It was stupid of suns to max him if the coach refused to coach him.
Now they got rid of both.
Suns now have more debth but they could regret trading Ayton

[NASpurs]

^^^

Debth...

[Mr. Body]

Actually, we got two unprotected FRPs and an unprotected swap, plus the undetermined CHA FRP. Portland got two unprotected swaps and one unprotected FRP. We got more for Dejounte.

Yeah how did I forget that. My brain is rotting. Somehow the Spurs dealt him at exactly the right time.

[spurraider21]

Actually, we got two unprotected FRPs and an unprotected swap, plus the undetermined CHA FRP. Portland got two unprotected swaps and one unprotected FRP. We got more for Dejounte.
depends what Holiday nets

dejounte was also on a way more favorable contract

[Spurs Homer]

Branham, keldon for jrue

[exstatic]

Ayton act could be the suns coach hated him and refused to coach him
It was stupid of suns to max him if the coach refused to coach him.
Now they got rid of both.
Suns now have more debth but they could regret trading Ayton

They matched Indys' offer last year, paid him a huge salary for a season, and then essentially salary dumped him in this trade. Stupid.

[exstatic]

depends what Holiday nets

dejounte was also on a way more favorable contract

And he was younger, but he was comparing the pick hauls and thinking they were the same, and they weren't

[baseline bum]

So glad to see Dame on the Bucks instead of the Heat getting him for nothing. Damn that's going to be a hell of a fun team to watch.

[John B]

depends what Holiday nets

dejounte was also on a way more favorable contract

DJ might not have the explosiveness, but a better all-around player plus 50 yrs younger.

[TD 21]

Homerun for the Bucks: Probably secured Antetokounmpo through his prime. Lillard is a perfect fit to fix their clogged crunch time offense, his game should age well and they don't need him to be their best player anyway. Are probably favorites to win the championship. To nitpick, guard defense is weak.

Possible homerun for the Trail Blazers, pending Holiday trade to probably 76ers (with Harden to Clippers or maybe Clippers or Heat trade for former instead) for significant draft capital. Ayton makes far more sense than Nurkic.

Single for Suns. Gets rid of expensive malcontent and adds depth, but weakened already suspect defense and might only have three players good enough to close high stakes playoff games.

:lmao At the Craptors, who we otherwise would have heard their media buddies pretend were looming boogeyman for Antetokounmpo ad nauseam and instead remain irrelevant. But hey, at least they got their precious 15 seconds of fame again.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Homerun for the Bucks: Probably secured Antetokounmpo through his prime. Lillard is a perfect fit to fix their clogged crunch time offense, his game should age well and they don't need him to be their best player anyway. Are probably favorites to win the championship. To nitpick, guard defense is weak.

Possible homerun for the Trail Blazers, pending Holiday trade to probably 76ers (with Harden to Clippers or maybe Clippers or Heat trade for former instead) for significant draft capital. Ayton makes far more sense than Nurkic.

Single for Suns. Gets rid of expensive malcontent and adds depth, but weakened already suspect defense and might only have three players good enough to close high stakes playoff games.

:lmao At the Craptors, who we otherwise would have heard their media buddies pretend were looming boogeyman for Antetokounmpo ad nauseam and instead remain irrelevant. But hey, at least they got their precious 15 seconds of fame again.

Yeah, I see this as a win for the Blazers. You don't want to sit on a star player who wants out, because the offers will keep becoming less and less at time goes on and other teams smell desperation. The draft capital should be lucrative (even if they decide to leverage any of that in trades) and Holiday should draw a lot of interest.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

And certainly for Milwaukee this is huge. They were at risk for losing Giannis, and now they're the clear favorites in the East.

[FutureMan]

Jrue Holiday potentially being available to trade for was not on my bingo card at the beginning of this off-season :lol

Holiday, Conley, Lowry, Tyus Jones… who will it be to help solidify the Spurs to a respectable standing? Or are we still tanking??

[spurraider21]

well there goes the Lowry consolidation pipe dream

[baseline bum]

well there goes the Lowry consolidation pipe dream

Bend over, I'll give you a pipe dream

[Dex]

1707097881604403330

[exstatic]

well there goes the Lowry consolidation pipe dream

You think Miami still doesn't need a bench?

[spurraider21]

You think Miami still doesn't need a bench?
the scenario especially made sense in a world where miami lost herro/robinson and or jaquez jr and guys like bullock/osman would fill those gaps, and where Lowry was otherwise a 30 million backup to Dame

[exstatic]

the scenario especially made sense in a world where miami lost herro/robinson and or jaquez jr and guys like bullock/osman would fill those gaps, and where Lowry was otherwise a 30 million backup to Dame

They lost 2, 3 guys to FA already. I think they've been shopping Lowry already, too.

[Mr. Body]

Lowry may have been salary ballast to make a Lillard or other trade work. It was either him or Duncan Robinson, though his contract runs longer. Now that Lillard is off the board they may aim for Jrue or even Harden.

Jrue's salary is insane, btw.

[scott]

Dodged a bullet. Still room on our roster for Kevin Tran.

[Dex]

This was posted on reddit but the tweet has since been taken down, so take with a grain of salt


[Passons] Miami had an offer for Lillard that everyone except Portland agreed on: Lillard to Miami. Herro to San Antonio. Nurkic and Little to Brooklyn. Ben Simmons, Lowry, Duncan, Jovic, 3 1sts, 2 swaps to Portland. Miami was willing to add Caleb as well.

Source: https://twitter.com/major_passons/status/1707135500115488993?s=46
Dame deal had framework that everyone agreed on but Portland.

Lowry, Duncan, Jovic, (possibly JJJ), 3 firsts, 2 swaps to Portland.

Herro to SA,

Ben Simmons to Portland, Nurk and Nas to Brooklyn

Everyone agreed but Portland said no. Miami was then ready to add Caleb to the fold, Per Source

[Mr. Body]

This was posted on reddit but the tweet has since been taken down, so take with a grain of salt

The beat writers are indicating that Riley hasn't actually been in touch with Portland much at all. And that they never got much beyond Herro plus a couple picks.

[Ef-man]

Lilliard to Bucks

Woj

Don’t get distracted by these small trades, the FO will not let the big catch (i.e., Kevin Tran) get away.

[Maddog]

Bucks
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/09/bucks-to-acquire-damian-lillard-in-three-team-trade.html

[JPB]

Looks like Portland did the right choice by waiting finally...

[BatManu20]

Looks like Portland did the right choice by waiting finally...

Yup. The media and fans were pushing so hard for Portland to just rip the bandaid off, but they remained patient and got a much better deal and Dame goes to a better team. Win-win.

[Mal]

Another supermax bites the dust

[exstatic]

Bucks
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/09/bucks-to-acquire-damian-lillard-in-three-team-trade.html

You’re like hours late.

[TekXX]

I'm curious if the Spurs attempted something here?

[exstatic]

I'm curious if the Spurs attempted something here?

Why? They said they were rolling with what they have. Do you think they lied?

[TekXX]

Why? They said they were rolling with what they have. Do you think they lied?

No they're saints, i bet Buford's never had a drink.

[exstatic]

No they're saints, i bet Buford's never had a drink.

Buford isn’t running the FO anymore.

[Seventyniner]

This was posted on reddit but the tweet has since been taken down, so take with a grain of salt

That makes it look like the Spurs were willing to take on Herro. It doesn't say if the Spurs would be getting any sort of draft compensation as well though.

Herro isn't going to be happy anymore in Miami anyway after having been dangled as a trade piece all summer. If the Spurs want him badly enough there might be a potential deal there.

[exstatic]

That makes it look like the Spurs were willing to take on Herro. It doesn't say if the Spurs would be getting any sort of draft compensation as well though.

Herro isn't going to be happy anymore in Miami anyway after having been dangled as a trade piece all summer. If the Spurs want him badly enough there might be a potential deal there.

It was taken down because it was false. Miami never came off their original offer, or drew in other teams.

[timtonymanu]

It really is great to not see a small market bend over and give into the demands of the bigger markets. A decade ago, Lillard would have gone to Miami for crap.

[Seventyniner]

It was taken down because it was false. Miami never came off their original offer, or drew in other teams.

That makes sense. Probably "leaked" by the Heat in order to save face. The Spurs having interest in Herro never made much sense to me, but you never really know.

[spurraider21]

That makes it look like the Spurs were willing to take on Herro. It doesn't say if the Spurs would be getting any sort of draft compensation as well though.

Herro isn't going to be happy anymore in Miami anyway after having been dangled as a trade piece all summer. If the Spurs want him badly enough there might be a potential deal there.
lol receive herro AND get draft compensation?

were they also going to give the spurs blow jobs too?

[Seventyniner]

lol receive herro AND get draft compensation?

were they also going to give the spurs blow jobs too?

Better to give up a couple of seconds than have a malcontent on your team for the next 4 years. I didn't mean an unprotected first or anything.

But that ship sailed when the Spurs used up all their cap space; lessening Miami's tax hit would have been the point of them dealing with the Spurs.