Grades: Spurs @ Thunder - Oct. 9, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-thunder-preseason-1/

Wemby to the Spurs wasn't a fever dream :wow

[Fireball]

Thanks for the grades. Guess you can start a rivalry in a PS game. Wemby and Chet will be fun to watch. Right now Chet seems more polished, but Wemby can do way more things. I do not know if the coaches do not want Wemby be in the thick of things all the time but I found his leaking out for fastbreaks and, thus, not showing any interest in rebounding, a bit weird. That’s how I play Basketball ��

But that fastbreak dunk was exciting. Overall a great PS game and hopefully Sochan and KJ will join next time!

[Bruno]

There is a little tiny detail in the Chet vs Wemby rivalry that is forgotten by journalists when talking about it: Wemby is 19 and Chet is 21.
At these ages, that's just a huge difference.

[Dejounte]

Wouldn’t be surprised if KJ + Sochan not playing was CIA Pop and all about wanting to see how Wemby would play with the starters and a placeholder 3+D guy in Julian (closer to the Keldon archetype). The guy going to the bench is obviously between the two of them and it’s too coincidental that both of them are out, IMO. Maybe seeing their teammates play from the sidelines help them see where they can contribute best. A coaching tactic.

[playbonner15]

Thanks for the grades. Branham is an offensive weapon, wanna see him working some pick & roll / pick & pop game with Wemby, if he improves his defense, he gonna be deadly with Wemby and Sochan

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Watched mostly highlights from the game but Wemby’s already doing unseen things - that steal at the FT line where one of his legs was on the 3 point line and the Kyrie up and under layup were insane. Some of his passing reads were also super advanced.

We’re so so lucky.

[JPB]

Expected from a rookie but Wemby will have to cut the TOs, be a little less loose and more careful with the ball. This is the NBA, you can get pickpocketed anytime.

And like Sean said during the game, his teammates will have to learn how to throw him the ball much higher in the paint and better use his size overall. I'd also like to see Wemby closer to the basket on both sides. 5 rbds and 1 block is not enough for him.

[Mr. Body]

Players were bumping into each other on dribble handoffs and screens, the rotations were especially a mess in the second half, but I loved the defensive effort in the first half, especially the starters and first bench crew.

Champagnie and Vassell couldn't get going, maybe because OKC's perimeter defense is very strong, maybe because the DHO and high post action congested things.

Branham could become a murder machine especially if he plays defense and he was hustling on that end.

My particular non-Wemby standouts:

Cedi Osman - no mistake why Pop had him and Dougie come in, valuing their constant movement. I'm sold on what Osman brings and this is an offense that he'll thrive in, slashing and moving around the perimeter.

Blake Wesley - his speed and ability to harass full court are excellent. He's a steal/deflection threat without losing position, and he played under control on offense. When he picks his spots, he's a good outside shooter.

Charles Bassey - reminds of how much I liked him last year. Last night, Pop called him a 'neophyte,' still, which is impressive since he has a knack for cleaning up boards, positioning himself to help weakside, and shows a great passing instinct.

[TheChillFactor]

I was blown away by what I saw.

After his second basket in the first quarter of his first PRESEASON game, the OKC fans were booing him.

He surpassed the hype for me, the ceiling has been removed on Victor Wembanyama.

GSG

[John B]

Thanks for the grades Timvp. It was great to see the Silver and Black in some form of competition again. I thought Wemby played very well. It's apparent that he is still finding himself out there. But the physical skills and high basketball IQ is evident. He didn't force any issues but showed some grit when necessary. I was very pleased.

Vassell came out shooting, there's no hesitation on his shots. It was an exhibition game. I was waiting for him to dominate with his new physical strength. He will have plenty of time to show why the Spurs did not hesitate to give him the huge contract.

Malaki I agree is a professional scorer. He has a smooth and silky touch and just has his ways of scoring. Somebody compared him to Rip Hamilton. I like if he could pattern his game to him.

Collins comes out hitting and aggressive. He is excited to be the starting C and is embracing the enforcer attitude. I like his grit, his dawg in him I like that he is not afraid to shoot it outside, and mix it inside. He is going to be a fan favorite.

Blake I thought improved from last year. He is more composed, but still having problem finishing. His defense though is very commendable.

Jabari I like his maturity, also his ball fake. I think he could be a very good backup PG. But for now he needs to get stronger and sharpen those skills in Austin.

Bassey I like that he's quick on his feet, has that hops rebounding and coraling rebounds. I'm glad to see him healthy. We need his big body out there.

Doug and Champagnie are hoopers who can knockdown shots. I think Julian needs to learn more from Doug before mid-trade when they will decide to ship Doug to a contender.

Great stuff!

[couchman]

It is easy to overreact to one game, but there are some things we saw from Wemby that will remain true:

Wemby showed the combination of size and agility that no one else has ever had before on a basketball court.
He also asserted himself and showed a strong competitive spirit. He rose to the moment and was not afraid.
We also saw some jaw dropping skills.
All of that will remain true and that’s really exciting.

We also saw a lot of inconsistency and a few ugly turnovers. Thankfully that can improve.

Rebounding is a problem right now. He is not physically built to box out but that is what he tries to do.
He also is a little quick to abandon rebounds to leak down the court. I like him running down court with a guard trying to stop him lol, but there’s a balance to be had there.

His defense is obviously good but his rim protector ability is slightly reduced by playing the 4.
Last night it meant someone like Chet enjoyed the mismatch agains Collins. Wemby would have slowed Chet a bit better imo. Once Wemby settles in I see him switching defensive assignments back and forth between 4 and 5 depending on matchups.

We also saw him catch the ball high in the post but then bring it down where others could strip him. He’ll need to learn to keep it high and finish high.
Amazing start for him.

[couchman]

When Blake came in I expected a shitshow.
Instead he played so well on defense that the Spurs opened up their biggest lead with him in the game.
In one stretch he was responsible for four straight stops, including two forced turnovers in a row.
We saw his defense have a similar effect in the Spurs final summer league game.
If he can keep doing that while avoiding mistakes and slowly developing on offense he can get playing time.
We’ll see but I was excited about Blake last night for the first time ever.
We need defenders

[rascal]

Wemby will be an all star in his first year.

[Mr. Body]

It is easy to overreact to one game, but there are some things we saw from Wemby that will remain true:

Wemby showed the combination of size and agility that no one else has ever had before on a basketball court.
He also asserted himself and showed a strong competitive spirit. He rose to the moment and was not afraid.
We also saw some jaw dropping skills.
All of that will remain true and that’s really exciting.

We also saw a lot of inconsistency and a few ugly turnovers. Thankfully that can improve.

Rebounding is a problem right now. He is not physically built to box out but that is what he tries to do.
He also is a little quick to abandon rebounds to leak down the court. I like him running down court with a guard trying to stop him lol, but there’s a balance to be had there.

His defense is obviously good but his rim protector ability is slightly reduced by playing the 4.
Last night it meant someone like Chet enjoyed the mismatch agains Collins. Wemby would have slowed Chet a bit better imo. Once Wemby settles in I see him switching defensive assignments back and forth between 4 and 5 depending on matchups.

We also saw him catch the ball high in the post but then bring it down where others could strip him. He’ll need to learn to keep it high and finish high.
Amazing start for him.

Rebounding is going to be a concern and, yep, you (and someone in the game thread) are right about Wemby leaking out on the fast break instead of hitting the defensive glass. I expect Popovich to change this, as that's pretty much the opposite of his philosophy. However... those hit-aheads with Wemby going deep are almost always automatic scores.

That said, the Sochan-Wemby-Collins front line is more anemic on the glass than I'd like. This will be something the team needs to figure out.

I pretty much see Victor as a SF at this point, or a stretch PF. It's a fluid thing nowadays, but where he likes to see the ball is perimeter-oriented, often the wing, although he loves that straight-on three. Will be fascinating to see him next to Sochan and others.

[Mr. Body]

When Blake came in I expected a shitshow.
Instead he played so well on defense that the Spurs opened up their biggest lead with him in the game.
In one stretch he was responsible for four straight stops, including two forced turnovers in a row.
We saw his defense have a similar effect in the Spurs final summer league game.
If he can keep doing that while avoiding mistakes and slowly developing on offense he can get playing time.
We’ll see but I was excited about Blake last night for the first time ever.
We need defenders

I've said it before -- Wesley and Jaden Ivey grew up together (one year apart) and they used to pick each other up and defend full court, going back and forth over and over. You can see the results, which are really impressive: Blake is extremely comfortable picking up guys as soon as they get the ball at full court. And his stance and quickness is such that he's a deflection menace without losing defensive structure. His defensive potential is really high.

[rjv]

would have been nice to see how sochan would have been used defensively or if he would have been given any time guarding chet.

[The Truth #6]

A lot to be excited about moving forward. A lot of good problems to have for us to debate and vociferously insult each other over, et cetera. Good times ahead.

[spurraider21]

but what can wemby do that bol bol cant?

[The Truth #6]

Vote for the next French Prime Minister?

[Spurs Homer]

Fun game to watch.
If Wemby has only had one summer and holmgren has had longer and wemby is already adding muscle compared to holmgren still looks skinny/weak

Wemby looks like he will be a monster - very very soon!

Pop maybe sat and watched in awe too much - as he could have been a bit more active when the spurs started losing their lead- but i guess it is pre-season

It looks like - to me - that when wesley comes in - the leads will disappear. I am not a fan of wesley and I really hope to be wrong about him but he does not look like a keeper to my eyes.

[Mr. Body]

Fun game to watch.
If Wemby has only had one summer and holmgren has had longer and wemby is already adding muscle compared to holmgren still looks skinny/weak

Wemby looks like he will be a monster - very very soon!

Pop maybe sat and watched in awe too much - as he could have been a bit more active when the spurs started losing their lead- but i guess it is pre-season

It looks like - to me - that when wesley comes in - the leads will disappear. I am not a fan of wesley and I really hope to be wrong about him but he does not look like a keeper to my eyes.

The lead ballooned in the first half when Wesley went in. I watched that sequence again and there was, no joke, about 4-5 possessions in a row where Wesley was blowing up OKC's offense. He's a seriously good defender.

Second half was a problem everywhere and he's not there as a playmaker yet. But SpursTalk needs to realize they're completely wrong about him.

[Chinook]

I do think some of his points were the result of him cherry-picking. That's all well and good in games that don't matter, but it seems weird that Pop of all coaches would condone that. Wemby is supposedly a better, more sure defensive prospect than he is on offense, but him not rebounding would under cut the impact of his rim protection. It'll be interesting to see how the team actually settles into using him. I don't know if I see a player who will consistently get 20-plus ppg in a winning situation right now. I'd much rather him work his way from easy buckets near the basket and spot-up threes toward star-level midrange shots and drives than try to develop as a dribble-drive playmaker right away. It's going to be harder for guys like Vassell and Johnson to "play off" their star big if he's playing wing ball.

No, this is NOT me talking about him sucking or anything. I fully believe he's playing this way both to try to get live action of what he COULD do with the real squad and because Pop wants to give Wemby a chance to have star accolades right away. I do think there's are multiple ways to play like a star, though, and it'll be interesting to see if the team is going to incorporate more predictable avenues to get him buckets in their offense or if they are going to let him do whatever he wants for the whole year and then see what they can build around him. But the rebounding thing will have to be fixed. Apparently he wasn't very good at it from a technical perspective in Europe, and that will have to improve as time goes on. There's no reason why he shouldn't be getting double-digit rebounds every single game.

[lefty]

https://x.com/KevinGarnett5KG/status/1711715656154968134

[spurraider21]

I do think some of his points were the result of him cherry-picking. That's all well and good in games that don't matter, but it seems weird that Pop of all coaches would condone that. Wemby is supposedly a better, more sure defensive prospect than he is on offense, but him not rebounding would under cut the impact of his rim protection. It'll be interesting to see how the team actually settles into using him. I don't know if I see a player who will consistently get 20-plus ppg in a winning situation right now. I'd much rather him work his way from easy buckets near the basket and spot-up threes toward star-level midrange shots and drives than try to develop as a dribble-drive playmaker right away. It's going to be harder for guys like Vassell and Johnson to "play off" their star big if he's playing wing ball.

No, this is NOT me talking about him sucking or anything. I fully believe he's playing this way both to try to get live action of what he COULD do with the real squad and because Pop wants to give Wemby a chance to have star accolades right away. I do think there's are multiple ways to play like a star, though, and it'll be interesting to see if the team is going to incorporate more predictable avenues to get him buckets in their offense or if they are going to let him do whatever he wants for the whole year and then see what they can build around him. But the rebounding thing will have to be fixed. Apparently he wasn't very good at it from a technical perspective in Europe, and that will have to improve as time goes on. There's no reason why he shouldn't be getting double-digit rebounds every single game.
i only thought his first runout dunk was a result of cherry picking. his second one he only starting running after he caused the deflection/turnover, and wasnt like he abandoned any defensive responsibility in doing so. and those were his only 2 fastbreak buckets.

while yeah, cherry picking for transition buckets isn't something i imagine pop will be happy with, it seemed to a degree intentional with them playing him out on the perimeter on D, and him running ahead of the break would be a natural consequence of that. with his speed down the court and his pterodactyl catch radius, converting those half court passes to him could actually be a pretty consistent mode of scoring, and doesnt require somebody with kevin love precision to execute.

[OldMan88]

The last few years, I’ve had a difficult time watching the Spurs play. There were a few good players, but the team play & lack of anything resembling a defense were very hard to watch.

I know it’s just preseason, but this squad seems to have a level of confidence that they can eventually play at a very high level. Granted, there’s the frequent WTFwasthat sequence, but I saw enough positive things happen to think this team can get “there”. Wemby’s going to be really good if he stays healthy, but it’s the supporting cast that has to make it happen.

[spurraider21]

game was fun to watch, but that lineup we saw in i think the 3rd quarter is one we cant trot out...

wesley, branham, mcdermott, osman, bassey

need some direction on offense, and bassey was out there defending all by himself on a few possessions. wesley was ok on that end though

[Knoxxx]

What I saw was a very loaded and high upside roster. When it comes to working with that, vs. acquiring someone like a Lillard for $60 mill, the choice is obvious. While I think Wemby can ultimately mesh with any team, seeing him do it with tons of fellow young bucks is going to be more special to watch. Also look at the insane pace this team is capable of, seems like they will blow some older teams out of the building just due to that. Some of the wild 3s detracted for me at times, but apparently Pop has them on full green light and balls out status on that regard. I guess this is consistent with todays NBA, Jack the 3 any time you get an inch.

As far as Branham comparisons, I was thinking Vinnie “The Microwave” Johnson, any takers?

One other comment, Elliot also likes the Cissoko to Diaw comparison, which of course I was flamed on here for even bringing up and triggered our micro analysts galore. Good times!

[couchman]

I want to be clear that I think Wemby leaking out is part of his game and will be appropriate in a lot of situations, but I also think he will need to learn more about when to do it and when not to do it.
If he is contesting a 3 at the top of the circle and already past everyone to midcourt as a result, or if he has caused a lose ball turnover then he should GO.
But if the rebound is still in doubt and he's anywhere inside the arc he should stay and help with team rebounding. I saw a couple of these where he went too early.

Offensively he wants to play like a wing right now. He doesn't have any obvious go-to post moves that I've seen yet, and he tends to bring the ball down low when in the post which negates his size advantage. In the old days he would get parked down low and forced to learn a post game. I'm not sure if that will happen with him. Like, when is the sky hook going to make a debut? Or was that just for fun?

[spurs10]

Great grades. Yes, I had that moment too, 'he's really on our team!!' Really fun to watch last night. Come on Friday!

[R. DeMurre]

Wemby's block of Jalen Williams really illustrated how different he his. Jalen and everybody watching thought Wemby'd been beaten on a blow by, only to still have the attempt at the basket rejected. That blow by would've been enough to beat any typical 6'11" center with a 7'3" wingspan-- even very good ones-- but it wasn't enough against Victor. This is why I can still see him spending some time as a SF, where by being in the midrange area his length can bother both three point shooters and players driving to the paint at the same time. Imagine if the Spurs eventually landed a legit top tier defensive rebounding center to cover the basket while Wemby played roaming free safety, blocking as many shots from behind as he does from the front-- it'd be an unprecendented defensive look.

[poopbox]

Rebounding is going to be a concern and, yep, you (and someone in the game thread) are right about Wemby leaking out on the fast break instead of hitting the defensive glass. I expect Popovich to change this, as that's pretty much the opposite of his philosophy. However... those hit-aheads with Wemby going deep are almost always automatic scores.

That said, the Sochan-Wemby-Collins front line is more anemic on the glass than I'd like. This will be something the team needs to figure out.

I pretty much see Victor as a SF at this point, or a stretch PF. It's a fluid thing nowadays, but where he likes to see the ball is perimeter-oriented, often the wing, although he loves that straight-on three. Will be fascinating to see him next to Sochan and others.

I actually think this is by design. I think Pop is willing to sacrifice some rebounding to try and get his 19 year old phenom some easy scores, as teams are going to load up on him in the half court. And honestly he only really did that when he was on the perimeter, it's not like he was in position to get a rebound but chose to sprint to the other end of the court instead. His rebounding numbers probably won't be that high because he is going to play so far away from the basket.

[poopbox]

Collins got destroyed by Chet to. He is going to have to be much better defensively if this team is supposed to be any good this year. Chet just repeatedly ran directly into him. Should have gooned him up a bit.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Collins got destroyed by Chet to. He is going to have to be much better defensively if this team is supposed to be any good this year. Chet just repeatedly ran directly into him. Should have gooned him up a bit.

Yeah, this team will have to take some leaps defensively if they want to compete. The dirty work is the hard work.

[Leetonidas]

Imagine if our guys actually knew how to throw him an entry pass. Probably could have had 2 or 3 more buckets

[PrimeMinister]

I actually think this is by design. I think Pop is willing to sacrifice some rebounding to try and get his 19 year old phenom some easy scores, as teams are going to load up on him in the half court. And honestly he only really did that when he was on the perimeter, it's not like he was in position to get a rebound but chose to sprint to the other end of the court instead. His rebounding numbers probably won't be that high because he is going to play so far away from the basket.

exactly. he was clearly picking and choosing when to leak out and made pretty sound decisions in doing so. If he can get down court and in position to receive a pass before the defense sets its almost game breaking. nothing anyone can do about it. throw the ball high and in the vicinity of the basket and its free points.

[Davidicus]

Wemby needs to go after rebounds and weak-side blocks. Nothing else to complain about, he has the all of the tools to succeed.

Collins came out chipper and got embarrassed by Chet. Once Chet sat out H2 Zach went back to work. He will be a huge asset this year, lets hope for 0 injuries.

Biggest concern is still PG position. Tre looked outmatched. It's hard for him to even bring the ball past half court. Nothing against him, just frustrated why FO hasnt gotten at least one more true PG for us to experiment with.

Speaking of, Blake Wesley looked very good. Fiery hands on defense. A bit into the game he used his speed to get to a midrange spot, instead of earlier he went to the basket where he got clobbered by two defenders. He drained the midrange shot easily. More of that please.

[Mr. Body]

Who was the PG the Spurs were supposed to go out and experiment with? Why would they lose assets for someone to experiment with? I'd like real ideas.

[Fireball]

i only thought his first runout dunk was a result of cherry picking. his second one he only starting running after he caused the deflection/turnover, and wasnt like he abandoned any defensive responsibility in doing so. and those were his only 2 fastbreak buckets. I am pretty sure he abandoned more defensive posessions but did not score as a result.

[poopbox]

Wemby needs to go after rebounds and weak-side blocks. Nothing else to complain about, he has the all of the tools to succeed.

Collins came out chipper and got embarrassed by Chet. Once Chet sat out H2 Zach went back to work. He will be a huge asset this year, lets hope for 0 injuries.

Biggest concern is still PG position. Tre looked outmatched. It's hard for him to even bring the ball past half court. Nothing against him, just frustrated why FO hasnt gotten at least one more true PG for us to experiment with.

Speaking of, Blake Wesley looked very good. Fiery hands on defense. A bit into the game he used his speed to get to a midrange spot, instead of earlier he went to the basket where he got clobbered by two defenders. He drained the midrange shot easily. More of that please.

Don't think they are interested in this. Think they are really going to run the offense through sochan and Wemby, then just surround them with combo guard and forwards. You saw it alot last night. Branham and Osman got most of the "point guard" duties. I don't see the spurs being in play for a known point guard commodity. Maybe if Conley was like 13 years younger. Unless they just tank again and choose best point guard available when they pick.

[baseline bum]

(Brothers and sisters, this guy is really on the Spurs. It’s still unbelievable.)

Holy fucking shit. :wow:wow:wow

[itzsoweezee]

Wemby was defending on the perimeter. Why would he crash the board? I’ve got no problem with him leaking out.

[itzsoweezee]

Wemby's block of Jalen Williams really illustrated how different he his. Jalen and everybody watching thought Wemby'd been beaten on a blow by, only to still have the attempt at the basket rejected. That blow by would've been enough to beat any typical 6'11" center with a 7'3" wingspan-- even very good ones-- but it wasn't enough against Victor. This is why I can still see him spending some time as a SF, where by being in the midrange area his length can bother both three point shooters and players driving to the paint at the same time. Imagine if the Spurs eventually landed a legit top tier defensive rebounding center to cover the basket while Wemby played roaming free safety, blocking as many shots from behind as he does from the front-- it'd be an unprecendented defensive look.

This is exactly why wemby needs to play a wing position. It’d give the spurs a huge advantage offensively and on defense. Big guys will usually get blown by guarding smaller players in the nba. With wemby, that’s not as much of a problem because of his ridiculous reach.

[The Truth #6]

I'm confident they are at least considering options for a better point guard but aren't in a rush yet and want to give Blake some more time, among other reasons. But just because they haven't made a trade doesn't mean anything yet. I've never heard them say Tre Jones is someone they want to build around. Maybe Keldon is sitting out while they consider a proposed trade? Unlikely, but that's a key part of being fans and not, you know, the General Manager, we aren't in on those discussions.

There are lots of trades we could propose and never prove. Seems pointless to argue over.

[Spurs Homer]

The lead ballooned in the first half when Wesley went in. I watched that sequence again and there was, no joke, about 4-5 possessions in a row where Wesley was blowing up OKC's offense. He's a seriously good defender.

Second half was a problem everywhere and he's not there as a playmaker yet. But SpursTalk needs to realize they're completely wrong about him.


Completely wrong?

Geez , i hope you are right.

He looks absolutely horrible every time i watch him play- although there are some small, tiny stretches where i squint really really hard and he sucks a tiny bit less…maybe his shot looks a little less horrible…

maybe….

[couchman]

Can we talk about Branham a bit?
At this time of year we hear how so-and-so "had a great summer" and that's been said a lot about Malaki, but last night he looked great!
The guy is an offensive machine, reminiscent of Rip Hamilton, and last night his defense was not too bad.
He's got a real future. Link to Branham highlights from last night (https://youtu.be/eT5W2C5ALtM?si=qz-UsKK9oa0tncr9&t=6)

[sfernald]

Completely wrong?

Geez , i hope you are right.

He looks absolutely horrible every time i watch him play- although there are some small, tiny stretches where i squint really really hard and he sucks a tiny bit less…maybe his shot looks a little less horrible…

maybe….

Out of control, awkward movement, but good defender, reminds me Corey Brewer. Can’t stand him..

[sfernald]

Can we talk about Branham a bit?
At this time of year we hear how so-and-so "had a great summer" and that's been said a lot about Malaki, but last night he looked great!
The guy is an offensive machine, reminiscent of Rip Hamilton, and last night his defense was not too bad.
He's got a real future. Link to Branham highlights from last night (https://youtu.be/eT5W2C5ALtM?si=qz-UsKK9oa0tncr9&t=6)

Yes, liked him a lot. His shot is near perfect and it looks the same every time. Like the best shooters, I can identify him any time in the game just by seeing his shot, even if I didn’t catch a glimpse of him. Could be a star actually. Thought he did decently on defense too.

[JPB]

Wemby will be an all star in his first year.

Just out of the popular vote.

[exstatic]

Yes, liked him a lot. His shot is near perfect and it looks the same every time. Like the best shooters, I can identify him any time in the game just by seeing his shot, even if I didn’t catch a glimpse of him. Could be a star actually. Thought he did decently on defense too.

It's a little flat for my tastes, but McDermot's is, too, and he's carved out a niche as a sniper. I think Malaki will improve until he shoots 40% from long. Devin started slowly, and improved over the course of 3 seasons. They both shot 40% in college, and were good FT shooters.

[The Truth #6]

Long term I think Malaki can be even better than Devin on offense because he actually gets to the rim on occasion. His defense needs to be at least average to be more than a 6th man type but that's still a great success for pick number 20.

[3&D_TBH]

Elliot said during the game that is was the Spurs coaches who were encouraging Victor to leak out on the break in that fashion. Seems it was/is part of the game plan.

[spurraider21]

they should definitely spend the year going mad scientist with stuff like that. wemby is a cheat code, so you can get away with some things that otherwise would not be sound

[CGD]

Wemby will be an all star in his first year.

On the fan vote, yes.

[playbonner15]

Can we talk about Branham a bit?
At this time of year we hear how so-and-so "had a great summer" and that's been said a lot about Malaki, but last night he looked great!
The guy is an offensive machine, reminiscent of Rip Hamilton, and last night his defense was not too bad.
He's got a real future. Link to Branham highlights from last night (https://youtu.be/eT5W2C5ALtM?si=qz-UsKK9oa0tncr9&t=6)
Great on offense definitely, gonna be a good pairing with Wemby + shooters and hope the coaching staff plans a pick & pop/roll scheme for Branham and Wemby + shooters around... dont think he's gonna be good to pair with Devin or pgs. I think Branham should go for the pg position or should have the ball on his hands a lot of the time if he's hot to keep the opponent's defense honest

[Davidicus]

Can we talk about Branham a bit?
At this time of year we hear how so-and-so "had a great summer" and that's been said a lot about Malaki, but last night he looked great!
The guy is an offensive machine, reminiscent of Rip Hamilton, and last night his defense was not too bad.
He's got a real future. Link to Branham highlights from last night (https://youtu.be/eT5W2C5ALtM?si=qz-UsKK9oa0tncr9&t=6)

After watching him go to work in Summer League I had 0 doubts he’d keep Terminating ppl in preseason. Dude has skills that aren’t reliant on a system or a situation. Give him the ball and he can find a way to score. If we take a big step this year in wins he will be a huge part of the equation.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Such a fun game to watch.

VICTOR…… what more can I say. Lmao.

Branham, looked super smooth on offense and wasn’t totally trash defensively. If he can be like this all season that would be awesome.

Wesley, had some great moments on defense and was overall pretty good on that end of the ball. Offensively he had a couple of good moments, but more bad ones. He has to figure out how to finish at the rim better. His mid range jumper looked decent this game though.

super excited to see the progression of the guys this season.

[tbdog]

Wemby's block of Jalen Williams really illustrated how different he his. Jalen and everybody watching thought Wemby'd been beaten on a blow by, only to still have the attempt at the basket rejected. That blow by would've been enough to beat any typical 6'11" center with a 7'3" wingspan-- even very good ones-- but it wasn't enough against Victor. This is why I can still see him spending some time as a SF, where by being in the midrange area his length can bother both three point shooters and players driving to the paint at the same time. Imagine if the Spurs eventually landed a legit top tier defensive rebounding center to cover the basket while Wemby played roaming free safety, blocking as many shots from behind as he does from the front-- it'd be an unprecendented defensive look.

I was reading some comments about that block on reddit and some other places, because there seems to be an emphasis on that play as such a big deal. But the casuals see it as a normal block that happens nearly every game. Why is it so special?

So anyone here that agrees that it was a normal block. It's the fact that Wemby didn't need to extend. It wasn't the last microsecond, how did he get back there moment. Those moments where you jump off your seat a pump her fist on the air with excitement. No Wemby just quietly got back and did a non explosive block. He didn't need to stretch out or jump through the roof of the building to get to.

And that's why it's a big deal.

[tbdog]

Anyone got a still grab of that insane steal Wemby pulled off?

[scott]

Told ya'll you were sleeping on Bassey. Are we legit prepared for him to lead the team in Rebounds on about 18 mpg of playing time?

To put Bassey's rebounding prowess in context, his Per36 total REB last season were 13.7, which place him 11th in the NBA if you include all non-qualifiers, and would have placed him 5th among qualifying players (had Bassey qualified). It wasn't a fluke either. His Per36 REB his rookie year in Philly was 13.3. You might be tempted to write these stats off due to limited sample size or limited minutes (though he did average 14.5 mpg in 35 games for us last year), but dude is a beast on the boards.

It was interesting to hear Pop refer to Bassey as a Neophyte though, which is probably an indication of a lack of sound fundamental bball education he has received to date, because it's not like he just started playing. He was MVP of the Jordan Classic his Freshman year in HS, was one of the top recruits his entire HS career, and won plenty of accolades in college. My guess, however, is that he heavily relied upon his physical dominance and never had to truly learn the game - which he is doing now with the Spurs.

As for Wesley, it was improved but his finishing around the rim was still so atrocious that its still hard to see him being able to move past a deep bench role. You can't consistently get stuffed at the rim like that and be left on the court.

[wildbill2u]

So many folks have been touting Vassell's body building and how it will improve his shooting. After last nite Im still waiting. Gotta hit those shots if he expects to win some honors or even continue starting.

[rjv]

Told ya'll you were sleeping on Bassey. Are we legit prepared for him to lead the team in Rebounds on about 18 mpg of playing time?

To put Bassey's rebounding prowess in context, his Per36 total REB last season were 13.7, which place him 11th in the NBA if you include all non-qualifiers, and would have placed him 5th among qualifying players (had Bassey qualified). It wasn't a fluke either. His Per36 REB his rookie year in Philly was 13.3. You might be tempted to write these stats off due to limited sample size or limited minutes (though he did average 14.5 mpg in 35 games for us last year), but dude is a beast on the boards.

It was interesting to hear Pop refer to Bassey as a Neophyte though, which is probably an indication of a lack of sound fundamental bball education he has received to date, because it's not like he just started playing. He was MVP of the Jordan Classic his Freshman year in HS, was one of the top recruits his entire HS career, and won plenty of accolades in college. My guess, however, is that he heavily relied upon his physical dominance and never had to truly learn the game - which he is doing now with the Spurs.

As for Wesley, it was improved but his finishing around the rim was still so atrocious that its still hard to see him being able to move past a deep bench role. You can't consistently get stuffed at the rim like that and be left on the court.

his experience at St. Anthony's didn't help. For one, he was playing against inferior competition and then he lost out on his sophomore season because he was deemed ineligible to play there.

[polandprzem]

I saw only hilights but it was best Wemby highlights I've seen.

Looking forward to see him in full NBA game.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Anyone got a still grab of that insane steal Wemby pulled off?

The one where he successfully swipes at a drive and ends up with a dunk? He tried that several more times and it did not work out well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So many folks have been touting Vassell's body building and how it will improve his shooting. After last nite Im still waiting. Gotta hit those shots if he expects to win some honors or even continue starting.

You were entertaining that doing curls and tricep dips would help someone's shooting? Why?

[DPG21920]

its going to be such a fun season :cry

[DPG21920]

My initial thought on Wemby’s stats for the season were something along the lines of: 32 MPG 17 PPG 7 REB 3 AST 2.5 BLKS 1 STL 46% FG 31% 3PT 75% FT

After seeing this and how confident his 3 ball looks and how many dunks he’s going to get by both leaking out & via put backs alongside his ability to draw fouls? I think he can legit put up 20 PPG in his rookie season if he plays 32MPG+

So something like 20PPG 7 REB 3 AST 2.5 BLKS 1 STL

I will still stick with my 17/7/3/2.5 but wont be surprised if he’s at 20 PPG

[JPB]

My initial thought on Wemby’s stats for the season were something along the lines of: 32 MPG 17 PPG 7 REB 3 AST 2.5 BLKS 1 STL 46% FG 31% 3PT 75% FT

After seeing this and how confident his 3 ball looks and how many dunks he’s going to get by both leaking out & via put backs alongside his ability to draw fouls? I think he can legit put up 20 PPG in his rookie season if he plays 32MPG+

So something like 20PPG 7 REB 3 AST 2.5 BLKS 1 STL

I will still stick with my 17/7/3/2.5 but wont be surprised if he’s at 20 PPG

I was around those numbers too, except for rbds I might have been a tad too generous for... I predicted 10+ but it could indeed be closer to 7/8, unless Pop clearly asks Vic to play closer to the rim.

[DPG21920]

I was around those numbers too, except for rbds I might have been a tad too generous for... I predicted 10+ but it could indeed be closer to 7/8, unless Pop clearly asks Vic to play closer to the rim.

Seemed intentional having Wemby leaking out down the court on missed shots, but have to see if that holds and is the game plan or if that was just circumstantial via him running around the perimeter this game vs being more interior? But it was noticeable (hence the lower rebounding numbers this game) that he was really pushing to get down the court on misses and establish great position/advantages

[FuzzyLumpkins]

IF they are going to play Wemby like that then you need Collins, Bassey, or someone like that to grab rebounds on the floor. KJ and Sochan are not going to get it done.

Wemby spit the bit with turnovers and failed steal attempts in the second half. It seemed like he was trying to make every play and just failing.

[PrimeMinister]

he played all of 6 second half minutes. seemed like he was trying to push the envelope a little more in those minutes which likely was what the coaches told him to do.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

he played all of 6 second half minutes. seemed like he was trying to push the envelope a little more in those minutes which likely was what the coaches told him to do.

SO the coaches gave him the quick hook because he was doing what they told him to?

[PrimeMinister]

its the first preseason game...obviously the plan was to give him 6 minutes a quarter and rest the 4th lol.

are you serious?

[Mr. Body]

Strife between young rookie and coaching staff confirmed.

[Chinook]

There's some merit to Wemby leaking out because the coaches told him to. But a couple of things.

1) No playing on the perimeter doesn't give a player -- especially a power-forward -- carte blanche to not rebound. Getting the board is every player's responsibility. That goes double for the tallest players. Leaking out is good if the Spurs get the board, but if they give up offensive rebounds then not only are they having to play another possession but now they have their best defensive player 30 or 40 feet away from the basket. Like all types of gambles, they look great when they work out, and there are folks who are smarter about when to take them. But they're never NOT gambles, and they more they're used, the less net benefit they tend to have.

2) Wemby's lack of rebounding isn't just a choice. His technique needs work. At his height, he's going to get a fair number of boards just by high-pointing the ball. But his lower-body action needs to be tightened up. While there is a range he can reach that basically no one else in the league can, within that mroe normal range he still stands a risk of losing important caroms. If he does his work early and holds his ground, Wemby should be able to basically secure half the rim's worth of bounces, if not more. But if he's taking false steps toward the other basket, getting caught behind his man, and getting pushed off his spot, he's going to end up either letting smaller dudes rack in boards on him or get called for quite a few over-the-back calls trying to rely on his height and length.

I'm probably going to stop saying this after this post, but talking about what Wemby needs to do or what I hope Wemby develops is not hating on him or whatever. He's obviously a generational talent and is playing well beyond reasonable expectations in a number of ways. But he still has a way to go, and there is a chance he doesn't improve enough on some facets, especially while he's young. No one's panicking or doom-saying. But there are definitely holes in his game right now which probably puts a ceiling on how much his performance will help the team get wins this season. Maybe that doesn't matter, but it's been a matter of discussion for a few months.

[PrimeMinister]

can anybody point to an example where he leaked out in a situation that the team did not already have position to secure the rebound

maybe it happened...idk. but from my observations he picked situations to leak out where the team had the rebound secured and he would be able to receive the pass from a team mate.

sure he could crash every single time regardless and get the rebound because he's a foot taller than everyone but why do that if he can use his physical tools to turn the rebound into points.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

its the first preseason game...obviously the plan was to give him 6 minutes a quarter and rest the 4th lol.

are you serious?

Serious about what? He had a string of bad plays in that span. Do you disagree?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's some merit to Wemby leaking out because the coaches told him to. But a couple of things.

1) No playing on the perimeter doesn't give a player -- especially a power-forward -- carte blanche to not rebound. Getting the board is every player's responsibility. That goes double for the tallest players. Leaking out is good if the Spurs get the board, but if they give up offensive rebounds then not only are they having to play another possession but now they have their best defensive player 30 or 40 feet away from the basket. Like all types of gambles, they look great when they work out, and there are folks who are smarter about when to take them. But they're never NOT gambles, and they more they're used, the less net benefit they tend to have.

2) Wemby's lack of rebounding isn't just a choice. His technique needs work. At his height, he's going to get a fair number of boards just by high-pointing the ball. But his lower-body action needs to be tightened up. While there is a range he can reach that basically no one else in the league can, within that mroe normal range he still stands a risk of losing important caroms. If he does his work early and holds his ground, Wemby should be able to basically secure half the rim's worth of bounces, if not more. But if he's taking false steps toward the other basket, getting caught behind his man, and getting pushed off his spot, he's going to end up either letting smaller dudes rack in boards on him or get called for quite a few over-the-back calls trying to rely on his height and length.

I'm probably going to stop saying this after this post, but talking about what Wemby needs to do or what I hope Wemby develops is not hating on him or whatever. He's obviously a generational talent and is playing well beyond reasonable expectations in a number of ways. But he still has a way to go, and there is a chance he doesn't improve enough on some facets, especially while he's young. No one's panicking or doom-saying. But there are definitely holes in his game right now which probably puts a ceiling on how much his performance will help the team get wins this season. Maybe that doesn't matter, but it's been a matter of discussion for a few months.

I'm not sure what you are talking about technique. We have seen plenty of times him bodying people and pogoing for the ball over his career. Its not lost on him that he can reach the rim without jumping. His timing seems fine. He wasn't getting pushed off of spots.

[ambchang]

Serious about what? He had a string of bad plays in that span. Do you disagree?

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Both are real.

[Chinook]

can anybody point to an example where he leaked out in a situation that the team did not already have position to secure the rebound

maybe it happened...idk. but from my observations he picked situations to leak out where the team had the rebound secured and he would be able to receive the pass from a team mate.

sure he could crash every single time regardless and get the rebound because he's a foot taller than everyone but why do that if he can use his physical tools to turn the rebound into points.

So on both of his dunks, he started going before his team got possession of the ball. It was a rebound situation where the Spurs had the 4-3 advantage in the paint, but it ended up being that Tre Jones got the rebound while surrounded by three OKC players after Collins sort of tipped it to him. By the time Jones actually secured the rebound, Wemby was already in the paint on the other side. Had any of the bigger Thunder players taken the ball before Jones, it would've been 3-on-1 against Collins in the paint. On the second one, Wemby seemingly gets the steal (haven't looked to see if he got credited one), and he's sort of trying to make sure the Spurs have it before leaking. By the time he starts running back, it looks like Branham should be the first to the ball, though it's still possible that Dort will beat him there. What's significant here is that Wemby's man (Giddy) actually cuts to the rim behind Vassell, and if the Thunder were to have gotten the ball before Branham, it would've been an easy dunk. Even if Victor would've reacted immediately, and even with his length, he would've been out of the play.

Ultimately, while Wemby's offensive game is going to determine his ceiling, I think his future greatness is going to be driven by his defense. It's hard to be a DPOY let alone a DGOAT candidate leaking out. Coast-to-coast steals or blocks? Yes. But the farther away from the rim he is on that end, the smaller the arc length he's going to be able to guard, in terms of pi and even ro given how the closer a shot is to the rim the less height it's likely to get. As I said, it doesn't matter this year. But leaking out (for anyone, not just Wemby obviously) is only somewhat viable on high-deflection offenses like the Prime Heatles. Even then it's not as sustainable against certain offense. It's good for highlight reels but probably not a great strategy for a team that is full of underperforming defenders outside of the guy who's leaking out most often.

[sfernald]

Strife between young rookie and coaching staff confirmed.

This is clearly not going to work out. What they need to do is change coaching ASAP.

[BackHome]

As usual people overreacting to a pre season game..lol

[ambchang]

Both are real.

And thus related?

[Dex]

Wemby was defending on the perimeter. Why would he crash the board? I’ve got no problem with him leaking out.

I also think it's an easy way to get him comfortable and get some easy buckets as he learns the NBA game.

I think the Spurs should be opportunistic to use it, but I doubt it will be a staple of his game after a year or two.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

This is clearly not going to work out. What they need to do is change coaching ASAP.

Will the Spurs pick Pop or Wemby???

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And thus related?

Is anything?

[EricB]

So many folks have been touting Vassell's body building and how it will improve his shooting. After last nite Im still waiting. Gotta hit those shots if he expects to win some honors or even continue starting.

continue starting? Wut 😂

[ambchang]

Is anything?

Yes.

[rankingtear]

Stop shitting on Devin, him and Wemby shared the most court time for a reason. He makes sure their best perimeter defender is nowhere close to Wemby when he dribbles. The french guy just have to find him wide open on the opposite side.

[The Truth #6]

Two competing goals for this season:

1. Pop says he wants to win.
2. Pop also says he wants to let Wemby figure things out.

I'm more convinced of point number 2 than number 1. But we'll know more in a month. Those two goals are somewhat contradictory and makes me curious to see how Pop handles both.

Personally I think he's perfectly fine being back in the lottery as long as he gave Wemby the comfort, freedom, and opportunity to learn from his mistakes, with the assumption that this season is an investment in Wemby more than anything else, and that from this season Wemby will be acclimated to make a hard push next year.

A lot can change so we'll see. But I'm still not convinced of a hard push for the playoffs.

[Mr. Body]

Those goals are not contradictory. Point two shows they see this as an extremely long time frame well beyond not just the next few years, but the next ten.

Clearly they're not chips-all-in on the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean tanking or losing on purpose. They want to try to win games because this means their players will learn to win games. It's just a process of learning how best to do it.

[The Truth #6]

It sounds like we actually may be seeing the situation similarly but you are choosing not to acknowledge that Pop said the goal is to win games this year, in contrast to last season.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes.

How?

[Mr. Body]

It sounds like we actually may be seeing the situation similarly but you are choosing not to acknowledge that Pop said the goal is to win games this year, in contrast to last season.

I'm not acknowledging that Pop wants to win games this year?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Those goals are not contradictory. Point two shows they see this as an extremely long time frame well beyond not just the next few years, but the next ten.

Clearly they're not chips-all-in on the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean tanking or losing on purpose. They want to try to win games because this means their players will learn to win games. It's just a process of learning how best to do it.

Yeah Pop's has seen many successful seasons spending until the end of Winter tinkering with lineups and schemes and then hammering in what works best for the playoff run going into Summer. He has developed multiple HoF in that process.

[ambchang]

How?

Kai Jones suck (in nba terms) but still demanded a trade.
Kai Jones got cut.

Both facts, both related.

[spurraider21]

Kai baptized Wemby and allowed him to get over himself

for that i will forever be grateful

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Kai Jones suck (in nba terms) but still demanded a trade.
Kai Jones got cut.

Both facts, both related.

Sure but I was not arguing a relationship with anything other than reality.

[ambchang]

SO the coaches gave him the quick hook because he was doing what they told him to?


Sure but I was not arguing a relationship with anything other than reality.

Use of because suggests otherwise.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Use of because suggests otherwise.

What does the use of a ? mean to you?

Wemby had two bad turnovers and two bricks right before he sat for the final time. That did not happen because the coaches told him to. That was the point of the question. Of course you realize this thus you intentionally misunderstanding.

[ambchang]

What does the use of a ? mean to you?

Wemby had two bad turnovers and two bricks right before he sat for the final time. That did not happen because the coaches told him to. That was the point of the question. Of course you realize this thus you intentionally misunderstanding.

The ? meant that you were suggesting that to be the case, which I am not in agreement.

The original suggestion by another poster is that Wemby played poorly in the 2nd half because the coaches instructed him to push the envelope of what he can do, and he would be out of the game regardless. Can't be confirmed and refuted, but sounds like a reasonable assumption, at which point you questioned why he was pulled for doing exactly what the coaches told him to do, which in and of itself is you, as you would say "intentionally" misunderstood the situation. You can backtrack all you want but I will let you know that you have won this internet argument because you intentionally misunderstood the situation and deny it after the fact. Bravo.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The ? meant that you were suggesting that to be the case, which I am not in agreement.

The original suggestion by another poster is that Wemby played poorly in the 2nd half because the coaches instructed him to push the envelope of what he can do, and he would be out of the game regardless. Can't be confirmed and refuted, but sounds like a reasonable assumption, at which point you questioned why he was pulled for doing exactly what the coaches told him to do, which in and of itself is you, as you would say "intentionally" misunderstood the situation. You can backtrack all you want but I will let you know that you have won this internet argument because you intentionally misunderstood the situation and deny it after the fact. Bravo.

:lol you're worried about the argument.

Wemby looked like shit in his 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter.

[ambchang]

:lol you're worried about the argument.

Wemby looked like shit in his 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter.

That was never argued about.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That was never argued about.

excellent