Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Oct. 16, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-rockets-preseason-grades-3/

We need Wemby to play 75+ games this season, tbh.

[venitian navigator]

It's really difficult to understand Champagnie stats... Looks like he's a little depressed because it seems he lost his spot in the rotation in favor of Osman (that's playing objectively very well) ... If that's true, it's abdurd and somebody should immediately comfort him letting him understand that shooting is probably the most lacking quality on this team and his shooting quality give him a chance to be anytime back on the rotation in three spots (from guard to forwards).

[onechance87]

zach should be starting no questions asked....Hes probably the 3rd best player rn behind wemby and vassel

[onechance87]

It's really difficult to understand Champagnie stats... Looks like he's a little depressed because it seems he lost his spot in the rotation in favor of Osman (that's playing objectively very well) ... If that's true, it's abdurd and somebody should immediately comfort him letting him understand that shooting is probably the most lacking quality on this team and his shooting quality give him a chance to be anytime back on the rotation in three spots (from guard to forwards).

Champ has been disappointing so far 3 games straight....He needs to hit his shots if we want to do well

[cutewizard]

so can Sochan play POINT guys?

[cutewizard]

Are we going to have a starting five of

Zach
Wemby
Keldon
Vassell and
Sochan

???????

[onechance87]

so can Sochan play POINT guys?

it aint pretty so far....Sucks we aint got a pg who can shoot 3s

[tbdog]

Are we going to have a starting five of

Zach
Wemby
Keldon
Vassell and
Sochan

???????

I think that's the case. Rebound by comitee and have Wemby leak.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I’ve said a number of times that the Spurs should extend Zollins now. He is going to be way more expensive next year. He was our best player last year after the Poeltl trade.

[onechance87]

I’ve said a number of times that the Spurs should extend Zollins now. He is going to be way more expensive next year. He was our best player last year after the Poeltl trade.

yea....hes young as well....Guy is passionate and hustles ...Gotta love it

[Dhbsr555]

Gonna be honest keldon defense was really good tonight

[Fireball]

I am fed up with Sochan playing PG ... he was so much fun to watch last year ... he had easy dunks etc. ... I doubt he has fun with the PG job tbh

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I am fed up with Sochan playing PG ... he was so much fun to watch last year ... he had easy dunks etc. ... I doubt he has fun with the PG job tbh

Generally agree - I believe the ideal Spurs PG’s profile is very different from what Sochan provides, however, it’s a year where they’re free to try crazy things and see what works and what doesn’t. Besides, it could be beneficial for any player’s development to serve as an initiator, regardless of what role would ultimately be best suited for them. For me, Sochan with an improved jump shot will be the ideal 4 to Wemby’s 5 in a few years.

I’m fully prepared to watch mad scientist Pop this whole season, it’ll be fun.

[rankingtear]

I’ve said a number of times that the Spurs should extend Zollins now. He is going to be way more expensive next year. He was our best player last year after the Poeltl trade.

They can't. He has outplayed his possible extension.

[Mr. Body]

Why the doom and gloom? I don't get fixating on an obviously challenging lineup at the end that we will never see play.

The team missing three starters completely controlled the Rockets (admittedly missing a key starter and scorer). Collins dominated their front line inside and out.

After a terrible rebounding performance last game they clearly took it to heart with Cedi and Malaki gathering thirteen between them.

Keldon looked good for all the rust if final execution wasn't entirely there.

The defense among the starters was excellent, high energy with a gaggle of chase down blocks. Malaki played defense well.

Sochan at PG is sticky right now less because of results than how it takes him out of spots where he's good.

Bad game from the entire bench, but it happens. We did have three bench players pulled into the starting unit. Champ is struggling mightily with his shot, maybe getting to his head, and Wesley didn't shoot well. I care less about results than what I'm seeing about their movements and plays they're trying to make and for JC it'll come around, for Wesley he's still on a longer development arc and he's fine to me. All preseason I like what I see from him overall at this point.

The team was in control of the Rockets and it didn't look particularly close. The bench sucked but that's okay. Let's hit our free throws, btw. Free throws were for last night what rebounds were for last game.

[Mr. Body]

I'm completely puzzled by Khem Birch. He's already 31, had some nice passing efforts and can board, but is he really going to make the team? Are they rehabilitating his league standing as a nice thing to do?

[spursparker9]

Are we going to have a starting five of

Zach
Wemby
Keldon
Vassell and
Sochan

???????

Judging by the recent pre-game and post-game interview, seems like the team is confident in Sochan playing PG position. So, yes that should be the starting 5.

[thiste]

Champ has been disappointing so far 3 games straight....He needs to hit his shots if we want to do well

3PM/3PA:
1/4 against OKC (-15 team worst)
1/6 against MIA
0/7 against HOU (-21 team worst)

2/17 11.7% 3P% overall this preseason.

He's not really making a case for a spot in the rotation.

[barakz21]

Bummer they lost. Would’ve been awesome if they got the dub. Dude I was watching out for on the Rockets was Jabari, seemed like he showed some good stuff during summer league, plus his reaction to Wemby’s reaction to the Spurs winning the lottery. Idk, he just didn’t seem THAT good last night.

[John B]

Thanks for the grades Timvp. I enjoyed the game up until the last 5 minutes, until Pop decided to empty the bench. Birch, Sissoco kept shooting the outside shots with no success instead of attacking the rim. I guess it's fair to have another extended look at those two the next two preseasons. That's going to be tough to watch.

That said. I loved the first 3 quarters. Collins was aggressive and kept punishing his defenders. He is aggressive and it paid off. Good stuff.
Cedi is an eye opener. He is active both on offense and defense. I don't know how much Jabari scored against him, but it's not a lot. As mentioned I'm getting a Bobo vibes with his Vets move, a big man who can push the ball and pass
Keldon, I'll give him a free pass. He's a bit rusty but the effort is there. He's managing hamstring tightness. I hope he gets better. Spurs would need him being aggressive
Branham, Champagnie, just keep shooting the ball. It's preseason and they need to get the rust off and get ready for the season. I think they will be okay.
Bassey fell from playing really good the last game. But I guess he wasn't playing against traditional bigs last night, because he needs to crash the boards and defend the paint better.
Barlow, there's a bright future for this young man. He came in hitting and being aggressive. Too bad they had to pull him for blood on his shirt.
Blake, contrary to a lot of people. I'm liking what I'm seeing. He's an above average defender, maybe one of Spurs better one-on-one defender. He was defending VanFleet and did a great job. His handles are better than last year. He's not getting rattled bringing down the ball. He did some good passes. He's a long way to go, but he's stronger and I've seen him finish with contacts. He needs to practice shooting better. He's going to be fine.

I really like the first 3 quarters. I think they competed both on offense and defended well. I wouldn't take too much from the last 5 minutes where Pop was giving Birch/Sissoco looks. I thought Pop should've put Rice in instead of Graham the last minutes. But overall, I enjoyed that game.

[buttsR4rebounding]

They can't. He has outplayed his possible extension.

They could have when they still had cap space. They had a team option. Could have negotiated a 3 year deal, added in the 7 million he’s making this year and spread it out over 4 years. That would have been a much better use of space than the 23rd 2nd round pick they got.

[rankingtear]

They could have when they still had cap space. They had a team option. Could have negotiated a 3 year deal, added in the 7 million he’s making this year and spread it out over 4 years. That would have been a much better use of space than the 23rd 2nd round pick they got.

He has a non guaranteed not a team option.

[exstatic]

It's really difficult to understand Champagnie stats... Looks like he's a little depressed because it seems he lost his spot in the rotation in favor of Osman (that's playing objectively very well) ... If that's true, it's abdurd and somebody should immediately comfort him letting him understand that shooting is probably the most lacking quality on this team and his shooting quality give him a chance to be anytime back on the rotation in three spots (from guard to forwards).

He's not just playing bad, his game so far has been unspeakable. Shooting .143 and .118 in 22.7 minutes over 3 contests. Was he really just a pumpkin all along?

[Mr. Body]

He's not just playing bad, his game so far has been unspeakable. Shooting .143 and .118 in 22.7 minutes over 3 contests. Was he really just a pumpkin all along?

I think he'll be fine. New contract jitters, first time learning an actual NBA system, having to downscale from volume shooting into targeted moments. It's definitely a concern and I'm sure it's getting into his head, but I'd let him play through it and stay confident in him. He's not a Duncan Robinson where all he does is shoot, but obviously we want him to get it going again.

[exstatic]

I think he'll be fine. New contract jitters, first time learning an actual NBA system, having to downscale from volume shooting into targeted moments. It's definitely a concern and I'm sure it's getting into his head, but I'd let him play through it and stay confident in him. He's not a Duncan Robinson where all he does is shoot, but obviously we want him to get it going again.

He shot 5.4 3s/game last year, and his pre-season count is 5.7. He hasn't downsized his looks.

[Mugen]

Would be nice to get some vet PG depth at some point this season. The Sochan PG experiment isn't made for long and Blake should be buried in Austin for the year. Would advocate cutting Graham for somebody with a more traditional PG skillset tbh.

[MultiTroll]

If this is who the Spurs are ridin with this season, eeesh.

[Mr. Body]

If this is who the Spurs are ridin with this season, eeesh.

I wonder when the casuals will realize the Spurs dominated the Rockets.

[exstatic]

I wonder when the casuals will realize the Spurs dominated the Rockets.

Yeah, we lost because our 11-15 players couldn't handle their 6-10 group. We crushed them when like groups played.

[MultiTroll]

I wonder when the casuals will realize the Spurs dominated the Rockets.
Wonder if the casuals will realize the Spurs need a bench in an 82 game season.
Also that a game is 48 minutes.

[Mr. Body]

Wonder if the casuals will realize the Spurs need a bench in an 82 game season.
Also that a game is 48 minutes.

LMAO.

We missin three starters or at least two starters and a bench guy and Pop runs a terrible last five to see how they react and you shittin your pants.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, we lost because our 11-15 players couldn't handle their 6-10 group. We crushed them when like groups played.

Pretty much. The Spurs minus their rookie phenom, their ace SG, and a good backup PG completely handled the Rockets.

[MultiTroll]

Yeah, we lost because our 11-15 players couldn't handle their 6-10 group. We crushed them when like groups played.
Vs Miami our 1-5 and sometimes 6-10 were still tied vs their 11-20.

[exstatic]

Wonder if the casuals will realize the Spurs need a bench in an 82 game season.
Also that a game is 48 minutes.


Yeah, we lost because our 11-15 players couldn't handle their 6-10 group. We crushed them when like groups played.

[MultiTroll]

LMAO.

We missin three starters or at least two starters and a bench guy and Pop runs a terrible last five to see how they react and you shittin your pants.
You're hanging a Championship banner over 3 quarters against a scrub Houston team.

We need a bench. Period.

[EricB]

I am fed up with Sochan playing PG ... he was so much fun to watch last year ... he had easy dunks etc. ... I doubt he has fun with the PG job tbh

way to give it all of four quarters. Such patience.

[EricB]

Wonder if the casuals will realize the Spurs need a bench in an 82 game season.
Also that a game is 48 minutes.


lmfao casuals wringing their hands over a preseason game.

[EricB]

You're hanging a Championship banner over 3 quarters against a scrub Houston team.

We need a bench. Period.


they have a bench if you’d open your eyes

[MultiTroll]

lmfao casuals wringing their hands over a preseason game.
lmfao Sniffers wringing their hands over someone wanting to see the Spurs bench improve.

[rjv]

just sit dougie against uber athletic teams going forward.

[Mr. Body]

just sit dougie against uber athletic teams going forward.

That charge he got was first rate. He'll be fine here and there, even against uber athletic teams, which tend to be dumb teams and will miss his cuts and movements. The whole bench just sucked last night.

[rjv]

That charge he got was first rate. He'll be fine here and there, even against uber athletic teams, which tend to be dumb teams and will miss his cuts and movements. The whole bench just sucked last night.

that was a great charge that he took.

[spurraider21]

Would be nice to get some vet PG depth at some point this season. The Sochan PG experiment isn't made for long and Blake should be buried in Austin for the year. Would advocate cutting Graham for somebody with a more traditional PG skillset tbh.
just looking at available FAs, and you are getting fossils

George Hill, John Wall, Goran Dragic

or austin rivers

[Mr. Body]

Graham is the vet skillset you want. He handles the ball well and pulls the trigger when open. You're not going to find a better player on the market.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm very pleased with what I have seen in those 3 preseason games. Looks like the line ups will be:

Starters:
Collins/Wemby/Keldon/Vassell/Sochan

Bench:
Bassey/Osman/McDermott/Branham/Tre Jones

All in all the team looks like it will have a promising season. They rebounded well in this game. The defense looks improved. Keldon and Branham are playing much better D. Keldon also looks like he has worked on his handles and will stop on his way to the basket occassionally with a behind the back dribble to create separation and knock down a shot. Sochan is still rusty as expected. Due to the big line up we will play Zach will get a lot of mismatches, which allows him to punish smaller defenders in the post. Wemby looks unstoppable already and Vassell looks like he has made another leap. Osman seems like a very good addition, a glue guy who can do a little bit of everything. I have high hopes that this team will be competitive this year.

[Mr. Body]

I'm very pleased with what I have seen in those 3 preseason games. Looks like the line ups will be:

Starters:
Collins/Wemby/Keldon/Vassell/Sochan

Bench:
Bassey/Osman/McDermott/Branham/Tre Jones

All in all the team looks like it will have a promising season. They rebounded well in this game. The defense looks improved. Keldon and Branham are playing much better D. Keldon also looks like he has worked on his handles and will stop on his way to the basket occassionally with a behind the back dribble to create separation and knock down a shot. Sochan is still rusty as expected. Due to the big line up we will play Zach will get a lot of mismatches, which allows him to punish smaller defenders in the post. Wemby looks unstoppable already and Vassell looks like he has made another leap. Osman seems like a very good addition, a glue guy who can do a little bit of everything. I have high hopes that this team will be competitive this year.

Man, you're supposed to be killing yourself because Blake Wesley missed a layup.

[exstatic]

Graham is the vet skillset you want. He handles the ball well and pulls the trigger when open. You're not going to find a better player on the market.

Graham is also an asset at the deadline for teams staring down the second apron next year. He can be a $10M salary drop with his minimal guarantee next year.

[spurs10]

Enjoyed the game and was glad to see the end of the bench get some playtime. Wonder who plays tomorrow?

[HankChinaski]

I can not wait for regular season to start up

[EricB]

Graham is the vet skillset you want. He handles the ball well and pulls the trigger when open. You're not going to find a better player on the market.


he’s perfect in the Eddie house Steve Kerr role that Pop for years has loved to have on the end of the bench

[Dex]

Y'all out here acting like preseason actually matters now, lol

It's been fun to see what Wemby and other guys like Vassell, Osman, Branham, etc. can do but let's not start getting too high or too low until the games start to count. Preseason with Spurs has always been depressing even in the glory days

We're lucky we've actually seen the main rotation play as much as we have, but obviously the new guys need to learn each other. 10 years ago, you normally didn't even see the starters until the 4th or 5th game

[DAF86]

Sochan isn't a PG and never will be, tbh.

[Dex]

Sochan isn't a PG and never will be, tbh.

Sochan will never be a point guard, but he could be a solid point-forward which is also valuable.

Also, they've already made it clear that many players will have the opportunity to bring the ball up the court. They aren't trying to turn him into John Stockton.

Giving him reps to be a play-maker makes sense in that regard.

[jjspur]

The preseason is fine for experimenting, but pretty soon Pop should be playing some of our standard lineups. We need to be ready for the start of the season. No more of this experimenting crap, that was so last year when we were actually trying to tank. There will be 5-7 starting caliber guys, another 5 or so reserves and our deep end bench guys. The rest are headed to Austin to develop or be cut. We need to see what our real team can do. I understand injuries, but this resting stuff after just two games is for the birds. The NBA will be watching out for this even if its not an all star player.

[spurraider21]

Sochan isn't a PG and never will be, tbh.
He’s draymond, not Ben Simmons

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Sochan will never be a point guard, but he could be a solid point-forward which is also valuable.

Also, they've already made it clear that many players will have the opportunity to bring the ball up the court. They aren't trying to turn him into John Stockton.

Giving him reps to be a play-maker makes sense in that regard.

Yeah, I’m interested to see how the experiment goes. Point guard feels like it might be this team’s weak spot, but I also wasn’t expecting Osman to challenge for a spot in the rotation so I probably shouldn’t second-guess how the coaching staff is looking at different positions.

[Atl Spur]

Sochan isn't a PG and never will be, tbh.

It really depends on your definition of the position. As I currently see it: size for position - above average, passing- average to above average, shooting ( close, mid, three ) below average, dribbling - below average to average, iq - above average, defense impact - above average, leadership - tbd . Sounds like Victor to me but actually we’re talking about Jeremy :)

[Atl Spur]

Jeremy, Devin, cedi, Vic , Zollins line up would be super solid. Tre , branham, keldon, Doug, champ, mamu, bassey off the bench

[Dex]

Yeah, I’m interested to see how the experiment goes. Point guard feels like it might be this team’s weak spot, but I also wasn’t expecting Osman to challenge for a spot in the rotation so I probably shouldn’t second-guess how the coaching staff is looking at different positions.

Hard to judge on preseason games but yes...I still think Jones' ceiling is a backup PG. He hasn't shown me anything yet to prove otherwise...can't even make entry passes to Wemby, and even though he is willing to shoot he is still not knocking them down.

Osman seems to bring much more versatility to the group even though he isn't a "true" PG

Will be interesting to see how things shake out

[spurraider21]

Hard to judge on preseason games but yes...I still think Jones' ceiling is a backup PG. He hasn't shown me anything yet to prove otherwise...can't even make entry passes to Wemby, and even though he is willing to shoot he is still not knocking them down.

Osman seems to bring much more versatility to the group even though he isn't a "true" PG

Will be interesting to see how things shake out
its not that osman isn't a "true" point guard

he doesnt resemble a point guard at all lol

being a solid connecting passer is a nice trait. but doesnt turn everybody into a quasi-point guard

[Mugen]

just looking at available FAs, and you are getting fossils

George Hill, John Wall, Goran Dragic

or austin rivers

Gross.


Graham is the vet skillset you want. He handles the ball well and pulls the trigger when open. You're not going to find a better player on the market.

I think they'd benefit more by having a traditional PG skillset eating up that roster spot than Graham tbh.


Graham is also an asset at the deadline for teams staring down the second apron next year. He can be a $10M salary drop with his minimal guarantee next year.

Now this is a better argument for keeping Graham around. But they'll probably just end up buying him out or something if he plays good soldier through the trade deadline :lol

[Raven]

Are we going to have a starting five of

Zach
Wemby
Keldon
Vassell and
Sochan

???????

i really don't think so, but i guess it would be the lineup we would all hope to see if players grew to be what we wanted out of them.

[Raven]

Sochan isn't a PG and never will be, tbh.

yeah i'm losing hope as well.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's going to be so much fun watching Spurs fans freak out over Pop trying new lineups and going CIA. It already is.

OMG Sochan played the 1! Let's get upset!

[Mr. Body]

I think they'd benefit more by having a traditional PG skillset eating up that roster spot than Graham tbh.


I'll take Malcom Brogdan while we're wishing and hoping. Graham is totally fine for now.

[DAF86]

yeah i'm losing hope as well.

I never had hope, tbh. It was clear from last season that that just isn't the position to get the most out of him.