Grades: Spurs at Warriors - Oct. 20, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-warriors-preseason-game-5/

:hat

[onechance87]

the wemby,collins pairing looking pretty decent so far

[widowmaker]

Dang when is the last time that every Spurs starter had at least one three pointer made?

[Fireball]

The plus/minus of the starters is looking pretty good. Teams will really need to adapt to the defense Wemby is able to play. Like last season, the Spurs might come out strong out of the gates before getting back to being a lottery team.

I am totally underwhelmed by Sochans offense ... hopefully it is just a matter of not caring about the preseason.

Bassey now has the Poeltl FT line floater. That looked smooth.

[tbdog]

We might be seeing a dpoy in a rookie season.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is exactly why I'm saying this is a playoff team. We've dominated other teams in the first half of every preseason game. The people worried about Sochan being the PG need to understand that the offense will still be clicking. We can drop a 120 points on any given night, just off ball and body movement and exploiting mismatches. The defense will be up and down, but we've seen some good sequences especially when Wemby is out there. The main issues seem to be rebounding and freethrow shooting. Also I hope Pop staggers some of the starters minutes so they can play with the bench instead of going with an all bench line up.

[exstatic]

We might be seeing a dpoy in a rookie season.

Certainly All D team, at least. There was a play towards the end of his PT last night that didn’t show up in the box score. GS was inbounding the ball after a Spurs basket, and Wembanyama was being his usual pesky self. He reached out to try to deflect the ball, the inbounder realized it, and tried to adjust the pass to make it flatter and lower. It went out of bounds. Turnover, and he never touched the ball.

[Maddog]

I was and maybe still a little sceptical of the Sochan PG "experiment".
However, I'm starting to see thought behind it Defensively it really gives people trouble as the bigs can switch and all can bring the ball up
Kudos to Pop for thinking outside the box and also letting Wemby play.

[John B]

Wouldn’t it be nice if a Rookie wins DPOY, All-Star on top of a ROY? MVP wouldn’t even be a far-fetch since he makes such a big role with the Spurs in all facets of the game, which is the definition of an MVP. Which other rookie would be comparable in the history of the game?? The future is so bright with Wemby and the Spurs.

On another note, Wemby is the perfect switch on Curry (which agonized the league). That split of a second window that Curry uses to hurl that 3, Wemby has enough reach to just stand there is mind boggling…and the agility to stay in front of him fuck!! Sochan/Wemby on Curry is what Pop would’ve envisioned to finally solve that puzzle.

It’s still a big challenge to guard bigs like Jokic, Embiid, Davis. Collins is tough but a tad small. Bassey has the body but still quite in developing. Bediako would be a good project to solidify that post defense.

Against big athletic PF’s like Giannis, Tatum, LeBron, I think Collins is up for the job. He is agile and plays tough. Sochan would get the assignment on most nights. But Barlow could be a good candidate also to develop.

Most of these Bigs assignments of course would be addressed more when Wemby gets to that NBA body. He looks so much stronger now (surprisingly how much he is compared to 2-3 months ago). Once he gets to that NBA body and at his peak, damn Wemby would be unstoppable, possibly collecting MVP, DPOY every year. Man, that’s mind boggling. I know to some people here that may sound soo premature after only a few preseasons and against lesser competition. But hey, I couldn’t help getting excited as a Spurs fan. Enjoy the Wemby ride :bobo

[onechance87]

Wouldn’t it be nice if a Rookie wins DPOY, All-Star on top of a ROY? MVP wouldn’t even be a far-fetch since he makes such a big role with the Spurs in all facets of the game, which is the definition of an MVP. Which other rookie would be comparable in the history of the game?? The future is so bright with Wemby and the Spurs.

On another note, Wemby is the perfect switch on Curry (which agonized the league). That split of a second window that Curry uses to hurl that 3, Wemby has enough reach to just stand there is mind boggling…and the agility to stay in front of him fuck!! Sochan/Wemby on Curry is what Pop would’ve envisioned to finally solve that puzzle.

It’s still a big challenge to guard bigs like Jokic, Embiid, Davis. Collins is tough but a tad small. Bassey has the body but still quite in developing. Bediako would be a good project to solidify that post defense.

Against big athletic PF’s like Giannis, Tatum, LeBron, I think Collins is up for the job. He is agile and plays tough. Sochan would get the assignment on most nights. But Barlow could be a good candidate also to develop.

Most of these Bigs assignments of course would be addressed more when Wemby gets to that NBA body. He looks so much stronger now (surprisingly how much he is compared to 2-3 months ago). Once he gets to that NBA body and at his peak, damn Wemby would be unstoppable, possibly collecting MVP, DPOY every year. Man, that’s mind boggling. I know to some people here that may sound soo premature after only a few preseasons and against lesser competition. But hey, I couldn’t help getting excited as a Spurs fan. Enjoy the Wemby ride :bobo

i dont see why wemby cant win dpoy....Jackson averaged 18,7,3 to win dpoy....I think we all can agree that wemby get those stats if not better
and gets our team better record then last year

[John B]

Certainly All D team, at least. There was a play towards the end of his PT last night that didn’t show up in the box score. GS was inbounding the ball after a Spurs basket, and Wembanyama was being his usual pesky self. He reached out to try to deflect the ball, the inbounder realized it, and tried to adjust the pass to make it flatter and lower. It went out of bounds. Turnover, and he never touched the ball.

Was that the pass to Curry that went out of bounce? Curry’s face was quite dissappointed.

LeBron’s rookie year was big, and teams were awed with his advanced game at that age. But I don’t think they were as much impressed compare to how people look at Wemby now. Wemby is just pure out of this world, something that people haven’t seen at that height, and I’m sure they’re asking, “how is he doing that?” Wemby just changes the game in ALL facets, scoring, blocking, altering shots, switching on smalls… LeBron didn’t do that in his rookie year. His moves were amazing, but he didn’t change the complexity of the game in ALL facets like Wemby is doing. The better comparison was Shaq. Shaq was mind-boggling as a rookie, how dominant he was, that look on Barkeley when that board slowly collapsed (I don’t know if that happened in Shaq’s rookie year, didn’t care to check). But Shaq was bad at FT and that was his kryptonite. And Shaq wasn’t fast enough to switch on smalls. Guards would take him in isolation. But not on Wemby. That iso defense on Wiggins was something to behold. Damn!

[CGD]

I was and maybe still a little sceptical of the Sochan PG "experiment".
However, I'm starting to see thought behind it Defensively it really gives people trouble as the bigs can switch and all can bring the ball up
Kudos to Pop for thinking outside the box and also letting Wemby play.

I’m still skeptical, but as Pop says, it’s a work in progress. The defensive upside is alluring though.

[CGD]

the wemby,collins pairing looking pretty decent so far

Very pleasantly surprised by it. Zach is scrappy and his 3 ball is looking legit now. They need to extend him now

[r0drig0lac]

It's incredible to see a team that can in theory defend anyone on the other side, although Sochan had a very bad run offensively in the second half.

[John B]

I’m still skeptical, but as Pop says, it’s a work in progress. The defensive upside is alluring though.

I think they were 17-1 at the opening against Rockets, and also a big lead against Warriors. The challenge is to sustain that defensive grip. It’s not a far fetch for Wemby to win DPOY coming out from a top defensive team if Spurs continue, as I believe they would being Pop’s team. Sochan’s agility to stay in front of a guard then switch to a big. The whole team able to switch from 1-5 is crazy.

[TheChillFactor]

This is exactly why I'm saying this is a playoff team. We've dominated other teams in the first half of every preseason game.

I just don’t see a 30-35 win team when i watch them. Either I’m going to be surprised or everyone else is. I think this is at LEAST a .500 team

[exstatic]

Wouldn’t it be nice if a Rookie wins DPOY, All-Star on top of a ROY? MVP wouldn’t even be a far-fetch since he makes such a big role with the Spurs in all facets of the game, which is the definition of an MVP. Which other rookie would be comparable in the history of the game?? The future is so bright with Wemby and the Spurs.

On another note, Wemby is the perfect switch on Curry (which agonized the league). That split of a second window that Curry uses to hurl that 3, Wemby has enough reach to just stand there is mind boggling…and the agility to stay in front of him fuck!! Sochan/Wemby on Curry is what Pop would’ve envisioned to finally solve that puzzle.

It’s still a big challenge to guard bigs like Jokic, Embiid, Davis. Collins is tough but a tad small. Bassey has the body but still quite in developing. Bediako would be a good project to solidify that post defense.

Against big athletic PF’s like Giannis, Tatum, LeBron, I think Collins is up for the job. He is agile and plays tough. Sochan would get the assignment on most nights. But Barlow could be a good candidate also to develop.

Most of these Bigs assignments of course would be addressed more when Wemby gets to that NBA body. He looks so much stronger now (surprisingly how much he is compared to 2-3 months ago). Once he gets to that NBA body and at his peak, damn Wemby would be unstoppable, possibly collecting MVP, DPOY every year. Man, that’s mind boggling. I know to some people here that may sound soo premature after only a few preseasons and against lesser competition. But hey, I couldn’t help getting excited as a Spurs fan. Enjoy the Wemby ride :bobo

Any of the individual awards like DPOY or MVP are highly political. You usually have to wait your ‘turn’. All D and All Star are more likely possibilities.

[exstatic]

Very pleasantly surprised by it. Zach is scrappy and his 3 ball is looking legit now. They need to extend him now

His extension would be based on his current $7M salary, so it would be dumb for him to sign one. We’ll have a shit ton of cap room next summer, and can sign him to a new contract at a much higher rate.

[Mugen]

SL defense is great but, man, I just think it's obvious that Jeremy and Keldon would both benefit offensively if Jeremy was slotted to the 3 and Keldon moved to the bench.

Again, experimenting is fine and they'll get 10-20 games to do so before Pop will see the light + I don't think there's a good enough PG on the roster to make the move a no-brainer. But Jeremy should not be bringing the ball up full time and initiating the offense.

[Mugen]

Hopefully the hockey subs/lineup won't be a thing once the regular season starts because that group is terrible :lol

[exstatic]

Hopefully the hockey subs/lineup won't be a thing once the regular season starts because that group is terrible :lol

I don’t think Pop has ever gone longer than 8 players in his rotation. This is a weird year,but I expect him to get players beyond that playing time thru resting rotation guys.

[Mr. Body]

Couldn't have gone better imo. A preseason game and missing a vital player for them in Draymond, but the Warriors are really good at home.

The offense is so hard for teams to handle right now and we're not really doing much with Wembanyama (I mean Wembanyana). To me the key may be Zach Collins. He pulls the big out and is doing what Poeltl did as a high hub but may be even more effective because of his shot.

I'm on the train for Sochan as point. The Warriors won't start both Paul and Curry (Draymond) so the mismatches won't be happening as often. He also has a long way to go with his turnarounds, post moves, counters. Would love to see a baby hook like Zach. My concern was always on the defensive side. Could he stay with faster guards? This was his promise out of the draft - he's so fast and agile for his size.

Mamukelashvili was the only deep bench guy who was like the starters, making decisive actions and letting it fly. He was great in limited minutes. A Mamu like this is actually a rotation player.

Is that real with Bassey's roll into the lane and floater? He hit like four of them.

I feel like Branham is only doing like 10% of what he'll eventually do on offense. He hits the same areas but he gets his shot off really well. More important to me, he's busting his butt and mpacting the game outside scoring. I don't see the atrocious defense and ballwatching right now.

Quite a performance. The defense is potentially not simply 'mediocre,' which would have been a big improvement.

[MultiTroll]

MVP is entirely possible imo.
He's been the best player on the court by far every game so far.

Seeing him block lil phaggot Curry, strip the ball from others is just a joy.

Bear in mind the vote is done by 11 media losers, and check this from last year:

"That included ESPN talent Mark Jackson, who had curiously left Jokic off his NBA MVP ballot earlier in the offseason."

(the massive phaggot did vote for Jokic in the end)

[Spurs Homer]

We can read all the skepticism about wemby slowly melt away….as we witness (fuck leswept- we are witness now) wemby develop and learn to dominate…

”I hate people trying to compare him to durant….blah…his handle..blah…his shooting percentage…”

”the spurs are not a playoff team …3-4 years before we KNOW…blah…blah”

”why look for another star when wemby wont be ready untill 2026…blah…”

just believe your own eyes…health is all that matters and even then - should wemby face that challenge he will come back stronger…

i see less and less disbelief after just 4 preseason -stints- of 20 mins each…

strap in and enjoy the unicorn!

[Fireball]

i dont see why wemby cant win dpoy....Jackson averaged 18,7,3 to win dpoy....I think we all can agree that wemby get those stats if not better
and gets our team better record then last year

for him to get DPOY the Spurs overall need to be a Top 10 defense ...

[wildbill2u]

Mr. Body re Sochan: My concern was always on the defensive side. Could he stay with faster guards? This was his promise out of the draft - he's so fast and agile for his size.

There were several times when guards went past him on drives to the rim. He just couldn't quite stay with them. Now this is not uncommon in the league because lots of offensive players have a great first step and speed. But this is ewhere his weakness is probably going to be exploited.

As far as the PG experiment goes, imagine a close game in the 4th quarter and the other 4 starters are on the court. Do you want Sochan running the show? We used to substitute Manu in as the closer because he could dribble, pass, shoot and make FTs along with incredible BB IQ to know what to do and when. Does any of that remind you of Sochan, even with some improvement?

[JPB]

Mr. Body re Sochan: My concern was always on the defensive side. Could he stay with faster guards? This was his promise out of the draft - he's so fast and agile for his size.

There were several times when guards went past him on drives to the rim. He just couldn't quite stay with them. Now this is not uncommon in the league because lots of offensive players have a great first step and speed. But this is ewhere his weakness is probably going to be exploited.

As far as the PG experiment goes, imagine a close game in the 4th quarter and the other 4 starters are on the court. Do you want Sochan running the show? We used to substitute Manu in as the closer because he could dribble, pass, shoot and make FTs along with incredible BB IQ to know what to do and when. Does any of that remind you of Sochan, even with some improvement?

His ability to recover with his gigantic wingspan can make up for it, as we've seen many times. Hell, he may use it to trigger his guy into believeing he created a safe path to the rim only to get denied by a triumphing Wembanananynana.

[Mr. Body]

The Spurs' priority was running the Warriors' incredible shooters off the three-point line. During the game thread some users were complaining about giving up layups, which I understand, but they were aggressive getting GSW to have to move. Better that, and look for help defense, than give up their primary attack.

[heyheymymy]

Dunleavy on the warriors call said some interesting points

Said Wemby is going to fuck up advanced stats the Ws look at for rim protection because he blocks so many shots at the three point line it would skew paint blocks stats

Said Curry is so elite with off ball cuts that CP3 will be valuable as a second playmaker with Curry running his WR routes could be deadly. I'm not so high on that because I think CP3 is pretty dunzo but GSW had to do something and I liked the offseason moves enough nothing crazy but pretty solid little reload and Saric brings some good stuff potentially, cojo is a decent pick up.

TJ-D looked intriguing last night.

[heyheymymy]

Warriors announcers told a funny story about being in Scotland for the British Open and saw a dude in a Looney jersey went up to him like what's up?

Dude was like yeah we love Loon, all my crew is here also in Looney jerseys and sure enough like 10 euro dudes all wearing Looney jerseys

The Ws announcers took a picture, sent it to Curry and said you're yesterday's news Looney fever is sweeping Europe lol

[OldMan88]

Wemby is discovering what “NBA condition” means.

[CGD]

His extension would be based on his current $7M salary, so it would be dumb for him to sign one. We’ll have a shit ton of cap room next summer, and can sign him to a new contract at a much higher rate.

Fair but I wonder what he’ll command tho? I believe the max he can extend off his current figure is 49M/4years. That’s roughly 12M per year.

[R. DeMurre]

Wemby blocking/altering shots by the Splash Brothers as a 19 year old in a preseason game might be looked back at in the future as a new era defining moment. Wemby has more blocks on three point attempts in the last year than many past DPOYs had in their entire careers. Letting him bounce between on ball defender and weakside defender could have a defensive impact the likes of which the league has never seen before. Victor standing at the elbow represents a three tier defense for like 35% of the court. Just Incredible.

[CGD]

Wemby blocking/altering shots by the Splash Brothers as a 19 year old in a preseason game might be looked back at in the future as a new era defining moment. Wemby has more blocks on three point attempts in the last year than many past DPOYs had in their entire careers. Letting him bounce between on ball defender and weakside defender could have a defensive impact the likes of which the league has never seen before. Victor standing at the elbow represents a three tier defense for like 35% of the court. Just Incredible.

No wonder CP3 was eager to get his jersey. That thing is gonna be worth hundreds of thousands in a few years.

[BackHome]

It is nice to get the win against ESPN favorite dolls but it is only Pre Season. I really love what Wemby is doing I still can’t believe we got the number 1 pick - I keep getting David Robinson and Tim Duncan flashbacks when I was watching this years draft. I am really like Vassell every year from College to the NBA he always works in off season and gets better the only thing he needs to do is drawing fouls and getting to the rim consistently.

It will be a fun year but I still think we will end up in the lottery as our bench is pretty crappy, but that is probably for the best as we still need more talent. So looking forward to watching the kids grow up and on another note I hope Pop has Blake and Sidy play in as many G League games as possible as they need the work and the freedom to work on there offensive game

[heyheymymy]

Great point

Media darlings spash bros were vastly overshadowed by wemby

It's the beginning

Of a new age

[KingKev]

We could win 20 games this season and i’ll still giggle like a school girl watching this squad knowing what is brewing.

I need to see Wesley in Austin for a full year with a very tight leash. His intangibles can’t be teached but god damn he is raw.

Cedi and Bassey look like certified role players that could help a win now team.

[spurraider21]

It's incredible to see a team that can in theory defend anyone on the other side, although Sochan had a very bad run offensively in the second half.
with wemby on the floor having such a strong gravity effect, might not matter who is running "point" while he's there. but with wemby on the bench, think some aspects of how that starting unit plays could be exposed

[heyheymymy]

What is going on with multiple announcers saying yana like how do you not know how to pronounce the name of the #1 pick when it's your job?

Last night they said yana literally while the camera was on Vic's name on the back of his jersey. 2nd half someone must've told them because all the sudden they were saying yama even emphasizing the M in yama.

Best part was when Mamu checked in and the announcers NAILED the full pronunciation of Mamukelashvili on the first try, a much trickier name than Wembanyama imho. Wtf?

[heyheymymy]

Very fortunate how Cedi Osman was part of more of a non-basketball administrative trade yet the filler piece has somehow worked his way into the basketball rotation by virtue of good play

[heyheymymy]

I'm afraid good teams will gameplan out the Bassey floater in the paint

Hope he has some other go-to moves to mix up looks if teams shut down him getting to his spot open

[spurraider21]

to be frank, curry/klay missed a number of fairly wide open 3's

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don’t think Pop has ever gone longer than 8 players in his rotation. This is a weird year,but I expect him to get players beyond that playing time thru resting rotation guys.

What about the Manu bench with Belli, Mills, Baynes, and Diaw?

[spurraider21]

Very fortunate how Cedi Osman was part of more of a non-basketball administrative trade yet the filler piece has somehow worked his way into the basketball rotation by virtue of good play
"They traded a second round pick just to get me off the roster"

https://i.gyazo.com/1d70751d14fd44144e82a2762ca37874.jpg

[RC_Drunkford]

Fair but I wonder what he’ll command tho? I believe the max he can extend off his current figure is 49M/4years. That’s roughly 12M per year.

I'd assume something like 17 million per year

[heyheymymy]

Classic spurs to turn trade filler into playable asset.

Now watch SA renovate Osman's value enough to flip at the deadline for a 2RP

[heyheymymy]

Also wonder if Osman and Doug can build chemistry together

Like the idea of double shooters and both cut well to the basket without the ball

Doug needs the oil can though looks rusty

[Bruno]

I'm surprised by how little Devonte' Graham has played this preseason:
- 2 games DNP CD
- 2 games with only playing in the 4th quarter.
- 1 game with minutes played in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

I guess he should have been bad during practices to play that little. He will also miss the first two games of the season, because of his DUI suspension, which won't help his case.

[Obstructed_View]

Mr. Body re Sochan: My concern was always on the defensive side. Could he stay with faster guards? This was his promise out of the draft - he's so fast and agile for his size.

There were several times when guards went past him on drives to the rim. He just couldn't quite stay with them. Now this is not uncommon in the league because lots of offensive players have a great first step and speed. But this is ewhere his weakness is probably going to be exploited.


I guess I was watching a different game - again - because I saw Sochan defending Chris Paul and Stef Curry and doing a really good job of it. At one point he was alone at the three point line guarding both of them and they failed to get off a shot. I certainly didn't see him getting blown by several times. But maybe I was in the kitchen getting a snack.

[spurraider21]

I'm surprised by how little Devonte' Graham has played this preseason:
- 2 games DNP CD
- 2 games with only playing in the 4th quarter.
- 1 game with minutes played in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

I guess he should have been bad during practices to play that little. He will also miss the first two games of the season, because of his DUI suspension, which won't help his case.
the sochan at PG experiment also pushes him down the pecking order, since the PG rotation now has Tre as the #2 who will still play a significant role, unlike last year when it was Tre and then nobody else. when trey missed time we actually started branham at PG quite a bit since we were short on options. josh richardson also handled a bit of point before being dealt

looks like the spurs have been giving Wesley every opportunity to beat out Graham for that 3rd spot

[exstatic]

I'm surprised by how little Devonte' Graham has played this preseason:
- 2 games DNP CD
- 2 games with only playing in the 4th quarter.
- 1 game with minutes played in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

I guess he should have been bad during practices to play that little. He will also miss the first two games of the season, because of his DUI suspension, which won't help his case.

It's a matter of playing your development guys over guys who aren't in future plans. I don't think he's done anything wrong, other than being too old for our timeline.

[baseline bum]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-spurs-warriors-preseason-game-5/

:hat

So am I nuts to think Victor could win 5xMVP until the media gets sick of giving him the award like they did with LeBron and Jordan?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I mean the entire schtick during the big 3 era was that most teams used a 3 man rotation -Chicago was used as the other extreme- while the Spurs always went deep into their bench.

There is every reason to expect that Popovich with use all kinds of lineups deep into the bench looking for what works given that is what he has done for most of his coaching career in the first half of seasons.

[spurs10]

Good grades, fun times! Bring on Wednesday!

[cutewizard]

goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

[buttsR4rebounding]

No wonder CP3 was eager to get his jersey. That thing is gonna be worth hundreds of thousands in a few years.

He got a special rider on his State Farm policy to insure it.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I'm surprised by how little Devonte' Graham has played this preseason:
- 2 games DNP CD
- 2 games with only playing in the 4th quarter.
- 1 game with minutes played in the 3rd and 4th quarter.

I guess he should have been bad during practices to play that little. He will also miss the first two games of the season, because of his DUI suspension, which won't help his case.

I was surprised too. I had read a statement by him that he was working hard on his defensive technique over the offseason because he felt like he could challenge for the starting PG position. He also said he was in the best shape of his life. It really has to be a huge letdown for him to seemingly not be given an opportunity.

[Ice009]

I was surprised too. I had read a statement by him that he was working hard on his defensive technique over the offseason because he felt like he could challenge for the starting PG position. He also said he was in the best shape of his life. It really has to be a huge letdown for him to seemingly not be given an opportunity.

Darn. Sounds like he worked really hard. I wonder why he was never given much of a chance. I expected to have seen him play more in the preseason. Maybe, like Bruno mentioned, he wasn't very good in practice?

[exstatic]

Darn. Sounds like he worked really hard. I wonder why he was never given much of a chance. I expected to have seen him play more in the preseason. Maybe, like Bruno mentioned, he wasn't very good in practice?

He’s a deadline flip, and will be given sufficient minutes to showcase himself.

[Dejounte]

IMO, Graham doesn’t play because the Spurs are trending away from playing one dimensional defenders. Tre is the only exception or they want to keep it to just one guy. I expect the team to continue getting players who are 6’4” and above…. Or players who dont meet that height requirement but have an above average wingspan + standing reach.

[CorrectCrusader]

Very pleasantly surprised by it. Zach is scrappy and his 3 ball is looking legit now. They need to extend him now
you got your wish

[Mr. Body]

I personally take little from Graham not playing. The team knows him and his capabilities. He can plug in whenever needed to add shooting and his role is actually the most defined of everyone on the roster. Better get the end of bench guys run who will spend more time in Austin.

[OldMan88]

Tall Ball is still an experiment with the Spurs, so they will remain flexible until their experiment is either proven or disproven.