Grades: Spurs vs. Mavericks - Oct. 25, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/2023-spurs-mavericks-grades-1/

[TrainOfThought5]

Dud of an opener, to be honest.

[tbdog]

A fine game with unfortunate foul trouble. Probably more highs than lows. Unfortunately the lowest low was the last 2 mins.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Wemby comes in and scores 9 points in 3 minutes the gets 1 touch the rest of the game. Everyone decided to play hero ball the last 5 minutes of the game.

[Davidicus]

Glass half full: we took it to the Mavs with Wemby in major foul trouble

Glass half empty: we are indeed what our roster reflects - a bunch of no-name young players with a lot of work to do

[Robz4000]

Pop benching Jones for Sochan late in the game really took the wind out of the Spurs' sails tbh.

[tbdog]

Pop benching Jones for Sochan late in the game really took the wind out of the Spurs' sails tbh.

It made sense defensively because every other Spur would have to double Luka. But Dallas got the mismatch anyway and Sochan came in to double off Irving which is such a bad read.

[Gervin44Silas13]

Totally fucken agree

Wemby comes in and scores 9 points in 3 minutes the gets 1 touch the rest of the game. Everyone decided to play hero ball the last 5 minutes of the game.

[Gervin44Silas13]

You have to release the Lion other teammates played selfish AF and forgot to play defense at the end...stop blaming the Refs.....that was horrible coaching on Wemby in prepping him for his 1st game ....dude has played with men you dont make stupid fouls .... Also There is no leader in this team

...if Wemby is not a all-star in Feb....he will be a bust....and nothing but has been hype....that rookie from Dallas Lively had a Hella game

yes ITS THE 1ST FUCKEN GAME I KNOW but....if we continue to play like this... and play smart Basketball its gonna be a loooooooonnnnnng ass season

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Wemby has to attack the rim more instead of settling for jumpers all the time and our other players need to look for him more

[jeebus]

Tre getting benched when he was on a roll, Keldon turning into Enrique, the team treating Wemby like some sort of pariah...they looked like a summer league team out there.

[KingKev]

Pop gets an F

[spurraider21]

Pop needs a lower grade. If they just needed a guy to let them play and make questionable late game substitutions, any of us here can do that

[John B]

Thanks for the grades Timvp. It was a disappointing loss having led most if the night. But the young guns hanged in there. It was just too much to beat a team with Doncic beasting a triple-double. They will look at the film and adjust. It’s a game behind for Wemby and he shouldn’t fret too much. Sure he needs to be careful not to be jumping, but it was his very first NBA game and all eyes were on him. They had 33 assists, but committed 19 turnovers. They will settle and should come out of this better.

[Fizziksman]

We just need to trade Keldon, he knows he is the odd man out and is going to Hero ball down the stretch. Addition by Subtraction

[onechance87]

wemby looked frustrated that they werent getting him the ball when he got himself open....We got to do
better of getting him involved and getting him shots in the paint

[poopbox]

It made sense defensively because every other Spur would have to double Luka. But Dallas got the mismatch anyway and Sochan came in to double off Irving which is such a bad read.

Nobody on the Spurs team did anything to stop Luka so not sure why it "made sense defensively" late in the game.

[rascal]

Wemby comes in and scores 9 points in 3 minutes the gets 1 touch the rest of the game. Everyone decided to play hero ball the last 5 minutes of the game.

Wemby is the only go to offensive player on the team.

Spurs need to get a top 2nd option in next year's draft. Better to lose enough this year to get that player because he's not currently on the roster.

[rascal]

We just need to trade Keldon, he knows he is the odd man out and is going to Hero ball down the stretch. Addition by Subtraction

You aren't getting anyone who is much better for Keldon.

[Rosewood]

Keldon is an absolute bum. Really thinks he is the star of the show. Need to get rid of him before he stunts the growth of Wemby this year.

[tbdog]

He could have scored more.

[tbdog]

Nobody on the Spurs team did anything to stop Luka so not sure why it "made sense defensively" late in the game.

He could have scored more.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/spurs_muse/status/1717402999776063772

[jjspur]

Pop is coaching like its still last year .

[rascal]

Pop is coaching like its still last year .

Pop quietly playing a developmental tank season.

[Mr. Body]

Rough loss. Team shows what many were saying -- playing a full 48 minutes and knowing how to manufacture scores. The young guys have a long ways to go in those areas. That's to be expected. They don't just come mystically, they're learned over time. They were also against two of the canniest players in the league.

Meanwhile, that foul trouble. I do think calls were lopsided, but whatever. If Wemby is allowed to play more minutes, this game is completely different.

On to the next one.

[TrainOfThought5]

Wemby has to attack the rim more instead of settling for jumpers all the time and our other players need to look for him more

the problem is that he’s 7’5” and all of his jumpers are technically clean looks. I mean, if that’s the case he should shoot 10 3’s a game if he’s going to average >=60%

[onechance87]

Rough loss. Team shows what many were saying -- playing a full 48 minutes and knowing how to manufacture scores. The young guys have a long ways to go in those areas. That's to be expected. They don't just come mystically, they're learned over time. They were also against two of the canniest players in the league.

Meanwhile, that foul trouble. I do think calls were lopsided, but whatever. If Wemby is allowed to play more minutes, this game is completely different.

On to the next one.

we would of been alright if wemby didnt get himself in foul trouble....We were in it most the game..Wemby not getting the ball
seem to annoy him and made him make poor decions on defence out of fustration

[Atl Spur]

Great teaching tape, you gotta play the whole 48 minutes locked in! We were having too many lapses in judgement as well as execution. Jeremy and co must use their greatest advantage…..Wemby! This kid Wemby made some mistakes but his bbiq is not normal for someone his age; get him involved on every possession ( he’s our Luka, Greek freak etc….) Devin and Keldon and Doug on defense was horrible one on one. Overall I think pop will get these boys rolling, the talent is there but execution and attention to detail was lacking!

[R. DeMurre]

I noticed early on that Victor had one possession where he wasn't close enough to challenge a three point attempt, but still jumped straight up with his arms extended as a distraction, and the shot missed. This is a trend popularized last season by back up center Luke Kornet of the Celtics, and I think in Wemby's case it's a legit item for the tool box. He only registered one block last night, but the number of times players altered their arcs and missed, plus the number of times players avoided his zone-- not as in a zone defense, but as in his own personal zone-- was significant.

[Atl Spur]

Oh yeah, substitute Osman for Keldon like I said before in the starting lineup; Cedi’s ball handling , bbiq and defense would really help while strengthening our second unit.

[Pauleta14]

Without any allstar/closer the Spurs will always struggle to win unless they build a big lead.

For all the praise of Wemby ending up with Pop/Spurs it's a shame thee isn't any veterans or allstar to help him grow...

Feels like a very frustrating season in the making

[R. DeMurre]

The Kornet Kontest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Yf9QJd3f8&t=27s

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Spurs players will need to realize it's really Wemby's team, so get him the damn ball.

Pop didn't play Wemby to his strengths very well in this one, and really didn't set him up for success. Disappointed with the coaching and the overall game plan in this one. Coaching D-.

That said, I'm anticipating seeing this young group morph quite a bit here in the opening 20 games, and see Wemby's rise to prominence with this group. No one paid to see Keldon hero ball at the end.
'

[rjv]

the average distance on shot attempts with Wemby in was at 17 ft. and with him out it was at 14 ft. The Mavs also shot a mere 35% inside the paint when Wemby was in but that jumped to 50% with Wemby out.

[rjv]

and I agree with the "C" for Pop; not getting his team to get the ball to Wemby in the final three minutes was egregious.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Wemby comes in and scores 9 points in 3 minutes the gets 1 touch the rest of the game. Everyone decided to play hero ball the last 5 minutes of the game.

Yep, like they were still in tank mode.

[Spurs Homer]

Here is what pop needs to do during film session:

ask the players to point out how many plays on video- does dallas ignore Luka or Kyrie when they are on the floor?

show me where the mavs run 2-3-4 times up and down the floor with Luka never touching the ball?

[R. DeMurre]

Gotta say, I was very impressed by Dereck Lively. The Mavs might've found their new Tyson Chandler.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Just really frustrating watching Lively getting spoon fed easy buckets. Wemby should have 10 ppg just off easy looks like that. They ran the pick and pop action too often with Wemby, granted his three point shooting was good but they showed no creativity to get him some easy looks. The kid has a 8 foot standing reach ffs just throw it up there. Every single player in the rotation should be working on lob passes. Big positive towards the end of the game when Wemby went on that run. Sucks he got into foul trouble and was only able to play 23 min.

I thought Tre Jones played a helluva game, and overall so did the team it’s just their best player played 23 minutes and 19 turnovers isn’t going to cut it. Really sucks they weren’t able to pull out that W, the crowd was electric. Can’t wait for tomorrow nights game against the Rockets. It’s going to be a fun season.

[onechance87]

if doug dont get his shit together in the next several games....He shouldint be playing at all...Would rather have champ or cisskko getting
those mins....

[silverblackfan]

Shame about the early fouls on Wemby and Collins, but the team played very hard until the final minutes of mistakes. Wemby is altering shots when he reaches straight up even if he misses the 'block'. He is going to be a monster. First game in the books and they learned how other canny players can be closers by drawing fouls and stopping quickly in the lane for a short shot. Also, keep Doug out in the last minutes unless he is on fire. He tries better on defense, but needs to be shooting lights out to offset his D.
The team will grow in leaps and bounds in the next 10 games. Wemby will learn to manage his energy and what works or not. The team will be feeding him the ball very soon. A Pop coached team that used "4-down" for many years will eventually get those touches up.
Fun game to watch until the last plays. Film session will clean up the mistakes and turn overs.

[Mugen]

:lol People thinking that Pop being a whatever coach the last few seasons was just part of the tank, he hasn't been at 2014 level since then tbh

But melting down over a game 1 L is pretty hilarious. This team was historically horrible on defense last season, tank or no tank. It's going to take a while for them to get better in that regard even with Wemby. Like their ceiling in that area is probably top 22-23 in the league. Offensively, same thing, it's going to take a while for Wemby to learn how to get to his spots easier (might even take all season) and for his teammates to find them.

One big takeaway from this game that I think will carry throughout the season, they're pretty damn good offensively when Wemby is on the floor. Like top 10 IMO.

[spurraider21]

Gotta say, I was very impressed by Dereck Lively. The Mavs might've found their new Tyson Chandler.
ive been pretty vocal about how dallas made a commendable effort to put good defensive pieces around luka/kyrie. drafting lively and then basically manufacturing another FRP and taking Prosper there. in addition to the Grant Williams move, they also did sign Thybulle to an offer sheet, which ended up getting matched

i still dont think Luka/Kyrie works. kryie's function there seems mostly to give Luka a breather, not really to be a complementary player to him

[CGD]

I thought the spurs held there own very well for most of the game. Like many young teams they played too fast/out of control at times, but the energy was great.

I am eager to see them gradually start calling more plays for Wemby though.

[Leetonidas]

Here is what pop needs to do during film session:

ask the players to point out how many plays on video- does dallas ignore Luka or Kyrie when they are on the floor?

show me where the mavs run 2-3-4 times up and down the floor with Luka never touching the ball?

Exactly...Spurs are still running plays like they're a team full of similar talent guys taking turns getting their numbers called where they should be looking for Wemby on every possession. They need to realize that have an alpha now and get him the fucking ball. Shit was infuriating to watch in real time. Wemby definitely looked visibly frustrated a couple times after getting good position only to be ignored for a low percentage shot from someone else.

[mudd]

PG? Let wemby bring it up...He is best passer and let him shoot, hell screen for him.

[hater]

Sochan sucks ass

H3s like a dick jefferson without the ISO moves and much worse shot

Should trade him while he still has some value

[spurraider21]

PG? Let wemby bring it up...He is best passer and let him shoot, hell screen for him.
wemby had 5 turnovers in 23 minutes

[JeffDuncan]

Exactly...Spurs are still running plays like they're a team full of similar talent guys taking turns getting their numbers called where they should be looking for Wemby on every possession. They need to realize that have an alpha now and get him the fucking ball. Shit was infuriating to watch in real time. Wemby definitely looked visibly frustrated a couple times after getting good position only to be ignored for a low percentage shot from someone else.


Yep.

Need to add a grade for team performance. For this game it’s an F.

Remember the Spurs players saying they had Wemby’s back? They lied to him. Too often - much too often - they acted like they didn’t even know he was there.

Much more can be said, but there’s one thought that all the Spurs, the players, the coaches, and everybody else, need to keep constantly in mind. Which is:

Wemby can leave.

Did this Mavs game put Wemby one game closer to becoming a superstar for the Spurs, or did it put him one game closer to becoming a superstar for some other team?

[Chinook]

Exactly...Spurs are still running plays like they're a team full of similar talent guys taking turns getting their numbers called where they should be looking for Wemby on every possession. They need to realize that have an alpha now and get him the fucking ball. Shit was infuriating to watch in real time. Wemby definitely looked visibly frustrated a couple times after getting good position only to be ignored for a low percentage shot from someone else.

But the thing is that's not an offense either. Guys have to be able to know what conditions are going to lead to a player being open. If some action springs Wemby, then the players should already have it in their training to look for that option opening up. But if dude is just going to run down the court, struggle to hold his position and just start spamming A to call for pass, then he's going to end up frustrated a lot. The team needs to learn to play with some actual structure. It can't just depend on him screaming for the ball, because he also doesn't know what to do yet. He doesn't know how to attack different kinds of defenders. He doesn't know how to time his pressure to create release valves or how still have his man locked away by the time an angle forms up. He also has responsibilities in the offense that will allow him and others to get higher-quality shots with less effort and risk of fouls. Just like leaking out, running down and trying to seal your man when your teammates are 30 feet away is going to work out much of the time. Everyone on the court is trying to learn how to play their new role, and they need their star to play his in the offense. Otherwise, everyone's going to keep breaking the offense off trying to get theirs.

[JeffDuncan]

But the thing is that's not an offense either. …


For the tldr crowd: the team is poorly coached.

[rjv]

Yep.

Need to add a grade for team performance. For this game it’s an F.

Remember the Spurs players saying they had Wemby’s back? They lied to him. Too often - much too often - they acted like they didn’t even know he was there.

Much more can be said, but there’s one thought that all the Spurs, the players, the coaches, and everybody else, need to keep constantly in mind. Which is:

Wemby can leave.

Did this Mavs game put Wemby one game closer to becoming a superstar for the Spurs, or did it put him one game closer to becoming a superstar for some other team?

damn dude, you got all that out of 48 minutes?

[TekXX]

With Pops years of experience you'd think he'd know that Sochan would be a downgrade over what Jones was giving us yet he subbed anyway. His late game tanking is becoming more obvious.

[exstatic]

Gotta say, I was very impressed by Dereck Lively. The Mavs might've found their new Tyson Chandler.

He's an energy guy, but I wouldn't want to need a basket with him more than 3 feet from the hoop. He has a high motor and good athleticism, but not much beyond that.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Good stuff from Devin.

1717518833202655347

[rjv]

He's an energy guy, but I wouldn't want to need a basket with him more than 3 feet from the hoop. He has a high motor and good athleticism, but not much beyond that.

what i got from him was that he's an elite garbageman player. still, he will fill a need for the mavs.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Yep.

Need to add a grade for team performance. For this game it’s an F.

Remember the Spurs players saying they had Wemby’s back? They lied to him. Too often - much too often - they acted like they didn’t even know he was there.

Much more can be said, but there’s one thought that all the Spurs, the players, the coaches, and everybody else, need to keep constantly in mind. Which is:

Wemby can leave.

Did this Mavs game put Wemby one game closer to becoming a superstar for the Spurs, or did it put him one game closer to becoming a superstar for some other team?
maybe they should kneel before him and start praying?

[spurs10]

The fouls on Wemby didn't all look legit, but when he came back in the game we saw into the future. Too bad Keldon decided to play hero ball. Sochan was not strong in crunch time either. Felt like Pop benched Jone, our best player, at the absolute wrong time. That and ignoring the other best player on our team gave us the loss.

[TD 21]

- In hindsight, the ignoring of Wembanyama was probably inevitable with a bunch of young veterans who have received virtually no national publicity and now see this as their opportunity to shine in front of a national audience. Hopefully they got it out of their system. If not, Pop needs to make sure of it.

- Collins needs to be more of a floor spacer with the starters so that Wembanyama can be more involved in the action by setting the majority of on ball screens.

- Playing him as the solo big makes it easier and the Mavericks present ample opportunity to do so, but the genius didn't take it.

- I don't mind doing it for now, but the sooner Sochan as the nominal PG ends, the better. The offense is destined for bottom of the barrel status.

- In general, he's an overrated prospect. I don't see a single clear strength, but I do see a lot of weaknesses.

[Atl Spur]

- In hindsight, the ignoring of Wembanyama was probably inevitable with a bunch of young veterans who have received virtually no national publicity and now see this as their opportunity to shine in front of a national audience. Hopefully they got it out of their system. If not, Pop needs to make sure of it.

- Collins needs to be more of a floor spacer with the starters so that Wembanyama can be more involved in the action by setting the majority of on ball screens.

- Playing him as the solo big makes it easier and the Mavericks present ample opportunity to do so, but the genius didn't take it.

- I don't mind doing it for now, but the sooner Sochan as the nominal PG ends, the better. The offense is destined for bottom of the barrel status.

- In general, he's an overrated prospect. I don't see a single clear strength, but I do see a lot of weaknesses.

Whoa! Overrated? This is gonna not end well…. Vic is the truth and EVERYONE knows it! Let’s revisit this in 30 games or so to be fair to you.

[hater]

With Pops years of experience you'd think he'd know that Sochan would be a downgrade over what Jones was giving us yet he subbed anyway. His late game tanking is becoming more obvious.

Pop has done this before

I know a shitty player when I see one and Sochans highest possible ceiling is Ime Udoka

[Leetonidas]

But the thing is that's not an offense either. Guys have to be able to know what conditions are going to lead to a player being open. If some action springs Wemby, then the players should already have it in their training to look for that option opening up. But if dude is just going to run down the court, struggle to hold his position and just start spamming A to call for pass, then he's going to end up frustrated a lot. The team needs to learn to play with some actual structure. It can't just depend on him screaming for the ball, because he also doesn't know what to do yet. He doesn't know how to attack different kinds of defenders. He doesn't know how to time his pressure to create release valves or how still have his man locked away by the time an angle forms up. He also has responsibilities in the offense that will allow him and others to get higher-quality shots with less effort and risk of fouls. Just like leaking out, running down and trying to seal your man when your teammates are 30 feet away is going to work out much of the time. Everyone on the court is trying to learn how to play their new role, and they need their star to play his in the offense. Otherwise, everyone's going to keep breaking the offense off trying to get theirs.

We wouldn't know if it's offense or what Wemby can do if they spam A because they didn't even fucking bother to get him the ball. I'm not saying run every single play thru him. But the guys on the court need to recognize when he is in a position to score rather than looking around to run some stupid play when Wemby has position. He can literally just shoot over anybody. So I think him running down the court calling for the ball warrants passing him the goddamn ball to see what he can do. Again I'm not saying run every play thru him but it's pretty obvious that they were not running the offense thru him at all

Like I said, instead of looking for Vic they were running offense like it was last season, like they didn't have the most sought after prospect in two decades on the court. Even with foul trouble, 9 shot attempts in 23 minutes is inexcusable

[TD 21]

Whoa! Overrated? This is gonna not end well…. Vic is the truth and EVERYONE knows it! Let’s revisit this in 30 games or so to be fair to you.

I meant Sochan.

[onechance87]

- In hindsight, the ignoring of Wembanyama was probably inevitable with a bunch of young veterans who have received virtually no national publicity and now see this as their opportunity to shine in front of a national audience. Hopefully they got it out of their system. If not, Pop needs to make sure of it.

- Collins needs to be more of a floor spacer with the starters so that Wembanyama can be more involved in the action by setting the majority of on ball screens.

- Playing him as the solo big makes it easier and the Mavericks present ample opportunity to do so, but the genius didn't take it.

- I don't mind doing it for now, but the sooner Sochan as the nominal PG ends, the better. The offense is destined for bottom of the barrel status.

- In general, he's an overrated prospect. I don't see a single clear strength, but I do see a lot of weaknesses.

our offence wasint that bad.....We couldint stop luka....he carved us up by himself...Wemby took himself out with his dumb fouls..
probably would had 10 more points if he wasint in foul trouble

[Mugen]

The guys will figure it out eventually but it's not going to be because of some great coaching adjustments or gameplans. Your 2023 season experience will go much better when you realize this team isn't being coached by 1997-2014 Pop tbh :lol

[TD 21]

our offence wasint that bad.....We couldint stop luka....he carved us up by himself...Wemby took himself out with his dumb fouls..
probably would had 10 more points if he wasint in foul trouble

Granted, 11 minute sample size, but starters had a 95.8 offensive rating (against a projected below average - bad defense). For context, Hornets were last with 109.2 last season.

[onechance87]

Granted, 11 minute sample size, but starters had a 95.8 offensive rating (against a projected below average - bad defense). For context, Hornets were last with 109.2 last season.

We should of attacked more...soshan missed like 5 layups by himself....

[rjv]

- In hindsight, the ignoring of Wembanyama was probably inevitable with a bunch of young veterans who have received virtually no national publicity and now see this as their opportunity to shine in front of a national audience. Hopefully they got it out of their system. If not, Pop needs to make sure of it.

- Collins needs to be more of a floor spacer with the starters so that Wembanyama can be more involved in the action by setting the majority of on ball screens.

- Playing him as the solo big makes it easier and the Mavericks present ample opportunity to do so, but the genius didn't take it.

- I don't mind doing it for now, but the sooner Sochan as the nominal PG ends, the better. The offense is destined for bottom of the barrel status.

- In general, he's an overrated prospect. I don't see a single clear strength, but I do see a lot of weaknesses.

the other point to remember here is just how important antecedents can be.

[KobesAchilles]

We had 5 people outshoot Wemby. 4 of them are scrubs. This was a shit game tbh. And it can’t happen again. Learn from it and move on. But the people saying it’s no big deal are completely wrong. Bc if they keep playing this way, it is the worst thing for his development. We have an alpha now. Everything goes through him. This is a Tim Duncan situation but like if he didn’t have DRob.

Imagine Collins outshooting Wemby bc we couldn’t get him the fucking ball. KJ turning the ball over instead of passing to our generational talent. He is THAT good. But we are treating him on here like he’s rookie Dejounte or Kawhi. He’s not. He’s Lebron or Shaq or DRob at worst. He’s an all timer.

Next game, run some fucking plays for him. Give him a fucking post entry pass. Don’t cut out of bounds like a fucking moron (Branham). Recognize when he is being guarded by a midget. And when he has 9 points in 3 minutes, keep feeding the monster.

[onechance87]

Not impressed with branham either....Dude is inconsitent....looks like we may have another lonnie walker

[Brazil]

You have to release the Lion other teammates played selfish AF and forgot to play defense at the end...stop blaming the Refs.....that was horrible coaching on Wemby in prepping him for his 1st game ....dude has played with men you dont make stupid fouls .... Also There is no leader in this team

...if Wemby is not a all-star in Feb....he will be a bust....and nothing but has been hype....that rookie from Dallas Lively had a Hella game

yes ITS THE 1ST FUCKEN GAME I KNOW but....if we continue to play like this... and play smart Basketball its gonna be a loooooooonnnnnng ass season

:lmao

[Brazil]

This board is hilarious... reading dat shit you would imagine Spurs were favorites to win it all and this game is a huge disappointment smh...

Wemby is 19 y/o first real NBA game and "ref" we should be thrilled by his performance in 20 mn. TOs are to be expected as fools also are to be expected. This game is great to learn this what matters.

The Spurs are taking this first year as a learning journey. Losing in a close first game against all stars vet like Luka and Irving is nothing to be upset about.

Bunch of fucking lunatics

[Atl Spur]

I meant Sochan.

Gotcha! Sochan missed a lot of easy shots ( can be corrected )but his ball handling has to be tightened up. Jeremy has heart and competitive; I’ll keep my wagon hitched to the kid.

[widowmaker]

Pop gets an F


Yeah I think he kept wemby out way too long.

[Atl Spur]

the other point to remember here is just how important antecedents can be.

True.

[onechance87]

This board is hilarious... reading dat shit you would imagine Spurs were favorites to win it all and this game is a huge disappointment smh...

Wemby is 19 y/o first real NBA game and "ref" we should be thrilled by his performance in 20 mn. TOs are to be expected as fools also are to be expected. This game is great to learn this what matters.

The Spurs are taking this first year as a learning journey. Losing in a close first game against all stars vet like Luka and Irving is nothing to be upset about.

Bunch of fucking lunatics

anytime we lose to the mavericks theres gonna be disapointment....they are one of our hated rivals...Just felt we should
of won this game but we let it slip

[spurraider21]

1717654760055058759

[poopbox]

the average distance on shot attempts with Wemby in was at 17 ft. and with him out it was at 14 ft. The Mavs also shot a mere 35% inside the paint when Wemby was in but that jumped to 50% with Wemby out.

Will be the story of the season. When Wemby in defense good when Wemby out defense bad.

[spurraider21]

so they missed a shooting foul on lively, in addition to a foul on doncic (in the same possession after offensive rebound), but that all came on the same possession where they should have called traveling on zollins to begin with, so doesnt change anything

[poopbox]

The guys will figure it out eventually but it's not going to be because of some great coaching adjustments or gameplans. Your 2023 season experience will go much better when you realize this team isn't being coached by 1997-2014 Pop tbh :lol

Yeah Pops coaching has left a lot to be desired for quite awhile. Even worst it's looking like we turning it over to Brent fucking Brown when Pop hangs it up :rollin

Pop coaches like someone who has no fear of losing his job because he won't and like he doesn't care about winning because he has the most wins ever. He just doing whatever he wants. Lucky for him he just stumbled onto a guy in Victor who is so good it can be pretty difficult to lose with him playing lots of minutes. For all the cliff jumping about this game the Spurs were getting whatever they wanted against the mavs and if they don't get Luka reffed in this game they win it pretty easily.

[Brazil]

anytime we lose to the mavericks theres gonna be disapointment....they are one of our hated rivals...Just felt we should
of won this game but we let it slip

Thats half full half empty story... we should be thrilled to lose to the mavs because we let it slip.

Tim started at 21 y/o with 15 10 2 2 and 4 TOs in 35 mn and was playing with bunch of vets and David. I'd say that Victor did just fine at 19 y/o with a young team trying to figure out to play alongside a totally new kind of player.
This team is not expeted to make the POs.

This was a great first game with plenty of stuff to learn and adjust. In the long run the result of this game does not matter, winning 30 or 50 games all season does not matter, what matters is preparing those young guys for the next 10 years.

[wildbill2u]

Pop benching Jones for Sochan late in the game really took the wind out of the Spurs' sails tbh.

Put Sochan on the bench instead of starting and we win this game.

[BackHome]

Love the - The Sky is Falling - It sucks to loose to Dallas but Luka is the man and we played pretty good add that we still a very young team so things like this are going to happen. As far as games people need just to enjoy it we are no where near sniffing a ring so people need a little reality check. The Spurs will have there ups and downs some days will look like G League and sometimes will look like were ready to compete for title. In the end it's somewhere in the middle more so probably high lottery pick and not a bad thing - Hell look at Dallas they went on that tanking at the end because they wanted there draft pick and look they came away with a heck of a player in Lively.

[TD 21]

Gotcha! Sochan missed a lot of easy shots ( can be corrected )but his ball handling has to be tightened up. Jeremy has heart and competitive; I’ll keep my wagon hitched to the kid.

Just because he's in the paint and sometimes near the rim, finishing at it is a skill.

He lacks the jumper to create blow byes, the handle to create separation, the strength to barrel through bodies and touch on top of that, so what he ends up with is a lot of out of control heaves.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

the problem is that he’s 7’5” and all of his jumpers are technically clean looks. I mean, if that’s the case he should shoot 10 3’s a game if he’s going to average >=60%

He won’t average 60% though, it’s always going to be far more higher percentage shots for him at the rim like in his second summer league game. Even defensively he strays too far from the rim

[Amuseddaysleeper]

But the thing is that's not an offense either. Guys have to be able to know what conditions are going to lead to a player being open. If some action springs Wemby, then the players should already have it in their training to look for that option opening up. But if dude is just going to run down the court, struggle to hold his position and just start spamming A to call for pass, then he's going to end up frustrated a lot. The team needs to learn to play with some actual structure. It can't just depend on him screaming for the ball, because he also doesn't know what to do yet. He doesn't know how to attack different kinds of defenders. He doesn't know how to time his pressure to create release valves or how still have his man locked away by the time an angle forms up. He also has responsibilities in the offense that will allow him and others to get higher-quality shots with less effort and risk of fouls. Just like leaking out, running down and trying to seal your man when your teammates are 30 feet away is going to work out much of the time. Everyone on the court is trying to learn how to play their new role, and they need their star to play his in the offense. Otherwise, everyone's going to keep breaking the offense off trying to get theirs.


True, but in crunch time it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to throw the ball to wemby or Vassell. But wemby also needs to do a better job of getting near the rim which as you noted is something he will need to learn

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Just because he's in the paint and sometimes near the rim, finishing at it is a skill.

He lacks the jumper to create blow byes, the handle to create separation, the strength to barrel through bodies and touch on top of that, so what he ends up with is a lot of out of control heaves.

He may need to bulk up more like giannis or something

[rjv]

True, but in crunch time it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to throw the ball to wemby or Vassell. But wemby also needs to do a better job of getting near the rim which as you noted is something he will need to learn

i'll always remember my basketball coach emphasizing how one of the best ways to defend the blocks was to get to the spot that your are trying to keep the opposing player from getting to first. grant williams was clearly doing this last night. he'd go down to the post before Wemby could get there and then Grant would make Wemby to try and push him off the block, which Wemby had a hard time doing.

[Mugen]

Yeah Pops coaching has left a lot to be desired for quite awhile. Even worst it's looking like we turning it over to Brent fucking Brown when Pop hangs it up :rollin

Pop coaches like someone who has no fear of losing his job because he won't and like he doesn't care about winning because he has the most wins ever. He just doing whatever he wants. Lucky for him he just stumbled onto a guy in Victor who is so good it can be pretty difficult to lose with him playing lots of minutes. For all the cliff jumping about this game the Spurs were getting whatever they wanted against the mavs and if they don't get Luka reffed in this game they win it pretty easily.

If they're smart and everything goes according to plan, I don't think Brett will inherit the mantle unless Wemby signs off on it tbh. Wemby should absolutely have a say in who succeeds the old man if he's everything we're hoping him to be.

[Mugen]

He may need to bulk up more like giannis or something

Jeremy should definitely get stronger tbh. Giannis isn't a good comp but Artest should be in terms of being effective while not being the greatest ball handler.

[spurs10]

Just watched the last two minutes again and Keldon deserves a steak dinner from Cuban. I'm sure Victor would have been called with a 3 pt foul had he made it to Luka in time, but the game was lost by then. Benching Tre who scored our last 4 points was discouraging.

[sfernald]

After this cluster fuck, there are already rumors that Wemby is going to demand a trade to a team with a player like Luka who makes scrub teammates like Lively look like stars on national television. He’s smart enough to talk to Harden, Kyrie, Lillard and Durant and realize he could demand a trade to Dallas even in his rookie season and there’s fuck all the Spurs can do about it. Spurs have fucked the pooch and there’s no coming back from this. This was a worst case disaster for a team. Every single player should not take another shot all practice. Just practice fucking lob passes and setting good screens for Wemby. No coffee either, cause coffee is for closers dipshits. That includes you too Pop!

[onechance87]

After this cluster fuck, there are already rumors that Wemby is going to demand a trade to a team with a player like Luka who makes scrub teammates like Lively look like stars on national television. He’s smart enough to talk to Harden, Kyrie, Lillard and Durant and realize he could demand a trade to Dallas even in his rookie season and there’s fuck all the Spurs can do about it. Spurs have fucked the pooch and there’s no coming back from this. This was a worst case disaster for a team. Every single player should not take another shot all practice. Just practice fucking lob passes and setting good screens for Wemby. No coffee either, cause coffee is for closers dipshits. That includes you too Pop!

kinda extreme lol.....But our number 1 goal should getting a player that makes it easier for wemby...If that means trading keldon so be it

[Rush]

Thanks for the grades. This game went pretty much as expected. Early lead, blown late. Lots of young players that need to learn how to close out.

In toto, I was pleased with the results, sans the play of McD. Sochan had some rough patches, but legit growing pains. NO ONE is going to learn PG position in NBA on the fly without some turmoil. I think, given the timeline, it makes sense to explore the potential. Plus, with a Plethora of draft picks on the horizon, we need honest evaluation. If the 'ship isnt on the horizon, then team building to attain that end is essential. So we endure some growing pains? Small price.

I would rather patiently build a team to contend than be in the play offs yearly to serve as cannon fodder.

[PhantomDashCam]

Thanks for the grades.

I thought Pop was terrible at times last night.
That being said, I also thought that this may actually be by design as it shows the folly of the players when they skip steps, keep their star player uninvolved, take rushed shots, fail to rebound etc.
If you play this way, you're probably going to lose consistently, irrespective of talent advantages.

I'm looking forward to the evolution of this team throughout the season but Pop for me is the key to whether this team is a playoff one come season end.

BTW, I still don't understand all the KJ hate I see in the comments. I thought some of our best stretches of play last night involved him.

[KingKev]

Thanks for the grades.

I thought Pop was terrible at times last night.
That being said, I also thought that this may actually be by design as it shows the folly of the players when they skip steps, keep their star player uninvolved, take rushed shots, fail to rebound etc.
If you play this way, you're probably going to lose consistently, irrespective of talent advantages.

I'm looking forward to the evolution of this team throughout the season but Pop for me is the key to whether this team is a playoff one come season end.

BTW, I still don't understand all the KJ hate I see in the comments. I thought some of our best stretches of play last night involved him.

I agree. KJ showed some polish at times. I don’t exactly know what his role is on this squad but he certainly has one.

[GAustex]

Sochan missed five layups

[Obstructed_View]

After this cluster fuck, there are already rumors that Wemby is going to demand a trade to a team with a player like Luka who makes scrub teammates like Lively look like stars on national television. He’s smart enough to talk to Harden, Kyrie, Lillard and Durant and realize he could demand a trade to Dallas even in his rookie season and there’s fuck all the Spurs can do about it. Spurs have fucked the pooch and there’s no coming back from this. This was a worst case disaster for a team. Every single player should not take another shot all practice. Just practice fucking lob passes and setting good screens for Wemby. No coffee either, cause coffee is for closers dipshits. That includes you too Pop!

This post is so fucking stupid, I'm embarrassed for whoever wrote it.

[Obstructed_View]

Thanks for the grades. This game went pretty much as expected. Early lead, blown late. Lots of young players that need to learn how to close out.

In toto, I was pleased with the results, sans the play of McD. Sochan had some rough patches, but legit growing pains. NO ONE is going to learn PG position in NBA on the fly without some turmoil. I think, given the timeline, it makes sense to explore the potential. Plus, with a Plethora of draft picks on the horizon, we need honest evaluation. If the 'ship isnt on the horizon, then team building to attain that end is essential. So we endure some growing pains? Small price.

I would rather patiently build a team to contend than be in the play offs yearly to serve as cannon fodder.
He hasn't had a good stretch. McDermott should not ever be on the floor without Victor, IMO. I'd like to see Victor with the ball and Doug running around behind screens.

[wildbill2u]

I've been pretty hard on KJ, but I have to give him some props for this game which might have been his best effort ever...until he reverted to dumb, bullish KJ in the last few minutes. He just got excited, lost his head, and tried to do too much on his own.

[Obstructed_View]

I've been pretty hard on KJ, but I have to give him some props for this game which might have been his best effort ever...until he reverted to dumb, bullish KJ in the last few minutes. He just got excited, lost his head, and tried to do too much on his own.
I tend to probably be the opposite toward KJ because I love his passion for the game. He did get excited and try to do too much. The mistake he made was thinking he would get veteran calls from a Tony Brothers crew.

[Killakobe81]

I noticed early on that Victor had one possession where he wasn't close enough to challenge a three point attempt, but still jumped straight up with his arms extended as a distraction, and the shot missed. This is a trend popularized last season by back up center Luke Kornet of the Celtics, and I think in Wemby's case it's a legit item for the tool box. He only registered one block last night, but the number of times players altered their arcs and missed, plus the number of times players avoided his zone-- not as in a zone defense, but as in his own personal zone-- was significant.

Noticed this too …
I get he is young but I would suggest to pick spots on that for a couple reasons…
One injury is probably the only thing that stops him from becoming a star …potentially a superstar.
I’m
Not ready to anoint him as potentially greater than Tim (but upside is immense) but jumping to alter 3 point shots comes fraught with risk.
I believe there is only so much jumps in someone’s knee I don’t want to waste them on a shot most shoot under 40% …
Plus him suffering a Kawhi type injury landing on a players foot should be ever Spur fans worst nightmare…
In key spots to win a game stop a run in a key game or if he chasing Steph or Dame on a switch I say go for it but I’m not …
encouraging that as frequent strategy..
plus it will be even more effective if he chooses his spots.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Pop has done this before

I know a shitty player when I see one and Sochans highest possible ceiling is Ime Udoka
https://emojis.wiki/thumbs/emojis/clown-face.webp

[CorrectCrusader]

the problem is that he’s 7’5” and all of his jumpers are technically clean looks. I mean, if that’s the case he should shoot 10 3’s a game if he’s going to average >=60%

Exactly, he can just shoot over people. Y'all are gonna have to learn to live with the jumpers. They'll be the most efficient jumper in the league

[CorrectCrusader]

I tend to probably be the opposite toward KJ because I love his passion for the game. He did get excited and try to do too much. The mistake he made was thinking he would get veteran calls from a Tony Brothers crew.

Can't wait for the overreactions to end when we play a ref crew that isn't braindead

[Chinook]

We wouldn't know if it's offense or what Wemby can do if they spam A because they didn't even fucking bother to get him the ball. I'm not saying run every single play thru him. But the guys on the court need to recognize when he is in a position to score rather than looking around to run some stupid play when Wemby has position. He can literally just shoot over anybody. So I think him running down the court calling for the ball warrants passing him the goddamn ball to see what he can do. Again I'm not saying run every play thru him but it's pretty obvious that they were not running the offense thru him at all

Like I said, instead of looking for Vic they were running offense like it was last season, like they didn't have the most sought after prospect in two decades on the court. Even with foul trouble, 9 shot attempts in 23 minutes is inexcusable

The question I would have is if he's in a position to score when he's calling for the ball and if his teammates are in a position to get him the ball. In my memory, there were times those conditions were met and guys didn't get him. But there were also times where he was running down the court looking for his while were in the middle of a play or before the ball had even crossed the timeline. As I mentioned before, Wemby's going to struggle to hold a seal on a lot of defenders for a while, so he needs to be more selective about when he does it. Throwing a lot of long passes down the court is how you end up with a lot of turnovers and no rhythm.

There are some pretty straight-forward things the Spurs could do to get Wemby the ball consistently in a good position to score. For example:

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:509/1*xT-07I7Y4EBUxuXcQNk8yg.png

This is an extremely simple action. Let’s say 1 is Vassell, 2 is Wemby, 3 is Johnson, 4 is Sochan and 5 is Collins. Have Sochan bring the ball up the court and pass it to Vassell at the top of the arc. Sochan then runs down to the bottom baseline and screen Wemby’s man. Wemby then runs around the screen for the jumper. If his man runs under the screen, he can sit behind it for an easy 8-10 footer. If his man goes over the screen, he can step inside for a dunk or drop it off to Collins for a dunk if Zach’s man slides over. No matter which way Wemby’s man goes, Victor can run out the three-point line just as easily. From there, he can take the three or toss the ball to Sochan for a close-in post opportunity. If Devin’s man gets in the way, Vic can make the easy pass to Vassell for an open three. If Vassell’s man presses up to disrupt the pass, Devin can call for Zach to screen to open up a three, a drive or a PnR.

I understand this is an experimental season, but it's also a long season. Bad habits can be formed if there's no offense. I would much rather the team be stunted as they ignore prime opportunities in pursuit of establishing fundamentals than everyone running around like chickens with their heads cut off with the one rule in their minds being to throw it to one player. Wemby is already very good, but he has a lot of learn about how to use his body effectively in the NBA. It would do him a lot of good to get his openings from an offense that features him rather than instilling in him that he has to run down and make and hold his own opportunities.

[Chinook]

True, but in crunch time it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to throw the ball to wemby or Vassell. But wemby also needs to do a better job of getting near the rim which as you noted is something he will need to learn

I don't know that throwing the ball to Vassell when he's not open is a good strategy. He doesn't have a lot of floor game right now without being sprung. The team just lacks a crunch time play-maker ala even DeRozan. Maybe someone will grow into that player, but there aren't any good candidates right now.

[sfernald]

This post is so fucking stupid, I'm embarrassed for whoever wrote it.

it was cathartic tho. I’m good now.

[Atl Spur]

it was cathartic tho. I’m good now.

Smh….lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't know that throwing the ball to Vassell when he's not open is a good strategy. He doesn't have a lot of floor game right now without being sprung. The team just lacks a crunch time play-maker ala even DeRozan. Maybe someone will grow into that player, but there aren't any good candidates right now.

True. I hope we are also done with the Sochan as PG experiment for now.

[JPB]

Wemby comes in and scores 9 points in 3 minutes the gets 1 touch the rest of the game. Everyone decided to play hero ball the last 5 minutes of the game.

Pop gotta fix that and make everyone un derstand this is Victor's team.