Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Oct. 27, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/2023-grades-spurs-rockets-2/

:flag:

[buttsR4rebounding]

Our first small taste of what our golden child can do. Can’t wait for more.

[John B]

Wemby is for real. The kid is cold stone when the game is on the line, and never flinch to carry the team on his shoulder, scoring the best of his game in the 4th quarters and tonight in Overtime. This kid will be dominant not only in his skills but on his mentality to win, a true alpha.

The team played well. They could try to limit their turnovers and that will come in time, and because they’re willing to share the ball. My concern is on the post defense. Collins plays with heart but I can’t help to be concerned when Sengun kept having his ways in the post, or that the Rockets out scored the Spurs huge in the paint, and that’s by the Rockets. Against other more formidable bigs, the Spurs would be in real trouble. Wemby would get stronger and that should help more eventually but that would not be in the near future. I like Collins but would Bassey be a better defensive pair for Wemby??

it’s a working progress but I like Pop to address the post defense.

[Splits]

Thanks for the grades.

I guess Pop's minute (mis-)management of VW is just baked in? Looks like he is targeting 25mpg which is just insulting, tbh. At least at home on non-b2b, more than frustrating. I would understand if we're on a road trip or in high altitude, but at home with tons of rest? Putting him in with 90 seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher. How's he supposed to get any rhythm with these short stints?

[heyheymymy]

Victor is a 4th quarter hero. Did the same thing in the Dallas game and I can remember maybe a Summer League game where Vic went off late in the 4th to help his team. Expect that juice.

[Dhbsr555]

Thanks for the grades.

I guess Pop's minute (mis-)management of VW is just baked in? Looks like he is targeting 25mpg which is just insulting, tbh. At least at home on non-b2b, more than frustrating. I would understand if we're on a road trip or in high altitude, but at home with tons of rest? Putting him in with 90 seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher. How's he supposed to get any rhythm with these short stints?
I get the game is faster but Tim averaged near 40 minutes per game wemby should atleast get 32-33

[John B]

I have no problem with Wemby’s minutes, for now. I’m sure Pop is not more concerned with winning than developing Wemby and not taking risk getting him injured. He is patient with the kid and for good reasons. Wemby will eventually get the minutes when his body is ready.

[cutewizard]

Slow but sure

Spurs are already winners just by having Wemby

[Maddog]

I'm good with how Pop is managing Wemby 's minutes.Yeah Tim averaged Near or at 40 as a Rookie, but he was physically mature and completely different boy build.

[r0drig0lac]

seeing how happy Wemby are with their wins, I don't think they want to be in a team with a negative record for a long time, and I think this should speed up the process.

[KingKev]

Pop’s grade is too high. This game could have been won earlier.

Guys are down on Zollins but he was having to cover too much floor for other players defensive laps.

I really feel everyone of our guys showed something tonight. A couple of years from now this core with the addition of a some vets and we are going to be right there.

[Ocotillo]

I like to read the game thread for the highs and lows of the game and I was fully expecting someone to come up with "Pop needs to be sent to Austin to get over himself".

[JPB]

tbh I think Pop let Wemby out of the first half because he wasn't good and forcing things. It's was a BB, not a management decision, even if Vic had a positive +/- contrary to the other starters.

[Mal]

Wemby is a baller. Whole team will play hard, chemistry is there, talent is there.

[tbdog]

Love beating the rockets.

[Dejounte]

Rockets fans on their forum wishing they had Vassell over Jalen Green… remember the “wasted years” Spurs fans complained about when the team was getting low lottery picks?

[tbdog]

I think Collins had a good game, other than taking and missing too many 3s. His passing was Gasol Esk.

[Dejounte]

I think Collins had a good game, other than taking and missing too many 3s. His passing was Gasol Esk.

Are you serious man? Sengun toyed with him play after play. His one on one defense was garbage. It was literally just him and Collins in the post and that’s how the Rockets game plan was: keep feeding Sengun. The Spurs had to start doubling Sengun because Collins was worthless.

[JPB]

Yeah, Zach had a couple of big plays donw the stretch but otherwise had a pretty bad game. I mean, it's OK for him taking a couple 3s and see if you're hot, but you should never have more or as many 3 attempts than Devin, and if you misses your first couple ones, focus on the paint unless it's a wide open one. 0/7 on 3 is brutal for your center, almost cost the game.

[Mugen]

The mental fortitude + still cheering his teammates when he was struggling mightily in the 1st half might have been more impressive than the physical feats...and this is with stuffing a 6'10" guy 2 ft above the rim followed immediately by another insane block and literally doing a reverse dunk after spinning from one side of the paint to the other...

I still can't believe the Spurs got Wembanyama tbh :lol

[Mugen]

People shit on DV/Keldon/Sochan for not being better at finding Wemby but Zach was the main culprit tonight tbh. Just bc Wemby sucks in the defense on the high/low doesn't give Zach the greenest light I've ever seen an NBA player have to take 3s :lol

[Mr. Body]

Very important win, as the next few will be rough.

People getting too down on Collins. A true game to forget. He'll be more than fine.

The team is so young, clearly don't have the veteran grit and savvy of knowing how to dig deep and get alternatives when things aren't working. They were shooting like shit early on and it was getting to them. There's a lot of the little things they don't know yet. But they fought down the stretch. This is about learning step by step.

The big takeaway, of course is Victor Wembayama. Not only is he tall, long, and agile. Not only is he skilled for his age. He's also supercompetitive. He's unselfish, intelligent about the game. But he also has a killer instinct and seems to have the clutch gene. That clutch gene is amazing. What a thing to have.

[Dejounte]

People shit on DV/Keldon/Sochan for not being better at finding Wemby but Zach was the main culprit tonight tbh. Just bc Wemby sucks in the defense on the high/low doesn't give Zach the greenest light I've ever seen an NBA player have to take 3s :lol

Ehh sometimes I think people forget the other player responsible for not finding Wemby: Wemby. He doesn’t really do a good job getting proper position and other times he calls for the ball in the post when the paint is already crowded. Like what is he going to do when he gets the ball? That’s an easy strip with how tall he is if he gets the ball and drives it in. Finding Wemby is easy. Finding Wemby when he’s got good position is harder. The players are justified when they dont pass it to him because they see that there’s more than just his primary defender behind him.

[Mugen]

Ehh sometimes I think people forget the other player responsible for not finding Wemby: Wemby. He doesn’t really do a good job getting proper position and other times he calls for the ball in the post when the paint is already crowded. Like what is he going to do when he gets the ball? That’s an easy strip with how tall he is if he gets the ball and drives it in. Finding Wemby is easy. Finding Wemby when he’s got good position is harder. The players are justified when they dont pass it to him because they see that there’s more than just his primary defender behind him.

True for some possessions and not applicable for others. There were a few over the top "easy" passes that the guys missed where Wemby is either dunking or shooting 2 FTs. But it's a process and they'll get better at it collectively, I don't doubt that.

[sfernald]

Are you serious man? Sengun toyed with him play after play. His one on one defense was garbage. It was literally just him and Collins in the post and that’s how the Rockets game plan was: keep feeding Sengun. The Spurs had to start doubling Sengun because Collins was worthless.

I really would have like to see Wemby put on Sengun when Sengun was getting hot. I feel like his length really might have been a spectacular counter to Sengun’s attacks. Even if it was just a few times, that’s the kind of thing the alpha/kobe player does. He takes on the hot player. Hell it would have been fun to see him try to shut down Mitchell for a few plays when he got hot. The fans would have went insane!

[gameFACE]

Houston was strong at the rim all night. Once SA came together in the 4th they were the aggressor at the rim. Houston got away too many points off turnovers. Tre is the obvious better point guard but I would still give the Sochan PG experiment some time. If there is anyone who should bulk up a bit it would be Collins.

Wemby and Vassel are bad mofo's.

[TrainOfThought5]

People shit on DV/Keldon/Sochan for not being better at finding Wemby but Zach was the main culprit tonight tbh. Just bc Wemby sucks in the defense on the high/low doesn't give Zach the greenest light I've ever seen an NBA player have to take 3s :lol

I can’t remember the last time a center went 0/7 on threes. Got to be an NBA record.

[sfernald]

Houston was strong at the rim all night. Once SA came together in the 4th they were the aggressor at the rim. Houston got away too many points off turnovers. Tre is the obvious better point guard but I would still give the Sochan PG experiment some time. If there is anyone who should bulk up a bit it would be Collins.

Wemby and Vassel are bad mofo's.

Collins really is my biggest worry with this group at this point. He’s just too undersized. This is the second time in two games I thought he was out of his league. He has heart but just a little too small. I wish we had someone like Lively or Duren. They would be such a great help for Wemby. I just feel like Collins is gonna continue to get walked all over. Can’t teach height.

[spurraider21]

OP really not gonna address the minute distribution?

[polandprzem]

Victor 1st half was a disaster. He had no feel for rebounds and his defense was bad.
Overall his defense was not much good.
His prep to the season was not that good also as ge was unable to compete 3 minutes straight.
He will get better as the season progress but still...

His 4th and OT was very good. I'd give him C+ at best.

Spurs pretty chaotic on both ends. I hope to see the cire of this team after 10 games and the rotation. As if right now Pop us extending preseason.

[MultiTroll]

"I like that Pop made it a point to get Wembanyama more involved."

Yes getting the best player on the court more involved vs Game 1s freeze out was some GOAT, genius level coaching.

Looking forward to more growth from Gregg. :toast

[poopbox]

I have no problem with Wemby’s minutes, for now. I’m sure Pop is not more concerned with winning than developing Wemby and not taking risk getting him injured. He is patient with the kid and for good reasons. Wemby will eventually get the minutes when his body is ready.

You can do both at the same time. You can be concerned with winning and not take risk getting him injured. I actually don't think the injury risk thing is even real. And how do we know his body isn't ready right now? I wish Pop would just let Vic play until he either gets in foul trouble or he is noticeably gassed or he just ask out of the game. Playing him in these short spurts is just making him play to fast and try to do to much at once cause he knows he is coming out in the next 4 or 5 minutes.

[DAF86]

Thanks for the grades.

I guess Pop's minute (mis-)management of VW is just baked in? Looks like he is targeting 25mpg which is just insulting, tbh. At least at home on non-b2b, more than frustrating. I would understand if we're on a road trip or in high altitude, but at home with tons of rest? Putting him in with 90 seconds left in the first half was a head scratcher. How's he supposed to get any rhythm with these short stints?

Was just gonna say this. Pop needs to get over himself and stop trying to be always different. Play your damn teenage rookie more than 25 fucking minutes a night.

[Dejounte]

Overlooked is Keldon’s complete game out there. His passing is improved and he was a pest on defense.

[gameFACE]

Collins really is my biggest worry with this group at this point. He’s just too undersized. This is the second time in two games I thought he was out of his league. He has heart but just a little too small. I wish we had someone like Lively or Duren. They would be such a great help for Wemby. I just feel like Collins is gonna continue to get walked all over. Can’t teach height.

Undersized? He's listed as 6'11" :lol Lively is a couple of inches taller but Duren is only 6'10". Collins is slim. That's why I mentioned bulk. He's tall enough.

[BackHome]

It's going to be a long year as we just barely beat a Houston team that has the second worse NBA season last year and were coming off a 36 point loss in there first game against Orlando this year.

As far as Wemby I am just letting him play through stuff but I have no problem pulling him if he tweaked something, is gassed, or just needs some one on one coaching for a few minutes on the side line.

He is still a 19 year old big so I not playing him 30+ minutes a game - I personally think he should play around 25 minutes a game and also play on some back to backs and see how he feels. One thing for sure is that every rookie hits that wall when we go deep into the season and I see the same thing is going to happen to Wimby.

[Dejounte]

It's going to be a long year as we just barely beat a Houston team that has the second worse NBA season last year and were coming off a 36 point loss in there first game against Orlando this year.

As far as Wemby I am just letting him play through stuff but I have no problem pulling him if he tweaked something, is gassed, or just needs some one on one coaching for a few minutes on the side line.

He is still a 19 year old big so I not playing him 30+ minutes a game - I personally think he should play around 25 minutes a game and also play on some back to backs and see how he feels. One thing for sure is that every rookie hits that wall when we go deep into the season and I see the same thing is going to happen to Wimby.

This is the worst indicator of everything. Sacramento beat Utah by 16 and then a couple nights later the Clippers lost to Utah. I guess the Clippers must suck. This logic sucks and a lot of fans live game by game and never learn to use good sample sizes. It usually takes 15-20 to see where a team is headed. Most people have been here long enough that they should know that and not make premature statements.

[itzsoweezee]

Keldon Johnson’s defense was absolutely trash. This team isn’t winning anything with a supporting cast that doesn’t even try on the defensive end. Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, and then just a heap of players that aren’t NBA caliber starters. Probably should do something about that

[Dejounte]

Keldon Johnson’s defense was absolutely trash. This team isn’t winning anything with a supporting cast that doesn’t even try on the defensive end. Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, and then just a heap of players that aren’t NBA caliber starters. Probably should do something about that

Haha i’m glad Spurstalk basketball is back. This is the dude who looks for my posts in threads and takes the opposite stance every time. I’m happy you still can’t form a cohesive, original thought besides being toxic and edgy.

[Mr. Body]

This is the worst indicator of everything. Sacramento beat Utah by 16 and then a couple nights later the Clippers lost to Utah. I guess the Clippers must suck. This logic sucks and a lot of fans live game by game and never learn to use good sample sizes. It usually takes 15-20 to see where a team is headed. Most people have been here long enough that they should know that and not make premature statements.

Yes, thank you. Every game is different. The Rockets played us twice already and planned for this game very well. In those games we struggled with their length but survived. Udoka is a good coach. Our shots couldn't fall and this set the team back. The resilience wasn't there, for young players, but it will be in the future.

Meanwhile, we lost to a Dallas team with perhaps the best player in the league right now. And we might have won with just a few possessions if our rookie stud wasn't saddled with foul trouble or if we had some more games under our belt.

It's all good. It's the NBA.

[spurs10]

Great grades and a great feeling knowing we have Wembanyama on our !#@#ing team! Yeah it was a tough night for Collins at the 3 pt line, but he arguably had one of the toughest assignments of the night. Sending some help defense was smart, as Sengun is a great player.

[PrimeMinister]

i understand they dont want wemby guarding traditional post up bigs but if there was ever a time to get him a possession or two on sengun to disrupt his rhythm it was definitely the 4th. We've seen victor handle him 1 on 1 before.

Zach has gotten taken to school by chet and sengun. Needs to figure out how to keep bigger or stronger guys out of position or he's going to be a liability in most match ups vs playoff teams when this team does eventually reach that level.

First 3 quarters they definitely looked like a developing team led by a rookie, but that 4th and OT is a glimpse into what they can do with a little bit of time under their belts. Victor is a winner in every sense, gonna be a good run.

[Drom John]

I can’t remember the last time a center went 0/7 on threes. Got to be an NBA record.

0 for 12, Brook Lopez 23 November 2018.
0 for 8, Nikola Vucevic, 15 May 2015.
0 for 7, Wendell Carter Jr., Zach Collins yesterday, Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucevic (thrice).

[JeffDuncan]

0 for 12, Brook Lopez 23 November 2018.
0 for 8, Nikola Vucevic, 15 May 2015.
0 for 7, Wendell Carter Jr., Zach Collins yesterday, Brook Lopez, Nikola Vucevic (thrice).


Yeah, I thought Vucevic had to be in there. Lol

[JPB]

Victor 1st half was a disaster. He had no feel for rebounds and his defense was bad.
Overall his defense was not much good.
His prep to the season was not that good also as ge was unable to compete 3 minutes straight.
He will get better as the season progress but still...

His 4th and OT was very good. I'd give him C+ at best.

Spurs pretty chaotic on both ends. I hope to see the cire of this team after 10 games and the rotation. As if right now Pop us extending preseason.

Can't give a C+ to a guy who takes the game over in the clutch both on offense and defense and changes the outcome... What is underrated on defense is how his mere presence disturbs the opponents... Bad first half, no doubt, but when it mattered, Wemby delivered... And to his defense, he got 2 or 3 hot potatoes at the end of possessions in the first half where he was forced to launch a bad 3. You can also blame his teammates for not setting him right, just throw the ball down there ffs... He was much more comfortable with Tre at the helm, reason why Jones finished the game.

[itzsoweezee]

Haha i’m glad Spurstalk basketball is back. This is the dude who looks for my posts in threads and takes the opposite stance every time. I’m happy you still can’t form a cohesive, original thought besides being toxic and edgy.

Haha if you think I look to your posts for anything. I would hope my posts are the opposite of yours because you are truly a mental midget and haven’t had anything beyond an obvious thought in your life.

[tbdog]

Are you serious man? Sengun toyed with him play after play. His one on one defense was garbage. It was literally just him and Collins in the post and that’s how the Rockets game plan was: keep feeding Sengun. The Spurs had to start doubling Sengun because Collins was worthless.

Why don't you just give credit to Sengun? Why didn't pop put Wemby on him? Was there anyone else that Pop could put them on Sengun and not get burnt?

[sfernald]

Undersized? He's listed as 6'11" :lol Lively is a couple of inches taller but Duren is only 6'10". Collins is slim. That's why I mentioned bulk. He's tall enough.

Maybe his lack of athleticism and bulk then? I don’t know. He looks undersized to me.

[Obstructed_View]

Maybe his lack of athleticism and bulk then? I don’t know. He looks undersized to me.
They make him look undersized. He does a good job scoring inside but it's an absolute battle every time.

[sfernald]

They make him look undersized. He does a good job scoring inside but it's an absolute battle every time.

is that what it is then? Wow I agree, it’s really like watching an uphill battle in the rain every time. Poor guy.

[emanueldavidginobili]

He's only 19 years old, that's all I can add to it, his literal brain isn't even fully developed yet. Spurs are the luckiest franchise in the world.

[objective]

The alleged benefit of playing Collins next to Wemby was to have a good defensive center holding his own and spacing the floor with his shooting.

If he's just going to get wrecked by opposing centers and brick so much that Pop forbids him from shooting threes again like last year ... Then that's a problem. Because benching him during the season for Bassey or Barlow will make his new extension very uncomfortable.

He's better on defense than Mamu at least

[TD 21]

Maybe his lack of athleticism and bulk then? I don’t know. He looks undersized to me.

He's 6'10.25'' barefoot, which is solid height for a C, but it's a combination of his 7'1'' wingspan, 245 pounds and lack of bounce (not that he was ever an above the rim type, but safe to say his leg injuries have sapped most of what he had) that ostensibly make him undersized.

[Kawhi Duncan]

Ehh sometimes I think people forget the other player responsible for not finding Wemby: Wemby. He doesn’t really do a good job getting proper position and other times he calls for the ball in the post when the paint is already crowded. Like what is he going to do when he gets the ball? That’s an easy strip with how tall he is if he gets the ball and drives it in. Finding Wemby is easy. Finding Wemby when he’s got good position is harder. The players are justified when they dont pass it to him because they see that there’s more than just his primary defender behind him.

Funny how these are never issues when Tre is in the game

[TDMVPDPOY]

even with all the spacing or wendy playing out on the perimeter, are the mental midgets on the team going to pass him the ball?? no...fck that get rid of tfhem

[polandprzem]

Can't give a C+ to a guy who takes the game over in the clutch both on offense and defense and changes the outcome... What is underrated on defense is how his mere presence disturbs the opponents... Bad first half, no doubt, but when it mattered, Wemby delivered... And to his defense, he got 2 or 3 hot potatoes at the end of possessions in the first half where he was forced to launch a bad 3. You can also blame his teammates for not setting him right, just throw the ball down there ffs... He was much more comfortable with Tre at the helm, reason why Jones finished the game.

Against the Rockets...

7of19 4 turovers. Gave multiple lanes on D...

If he had better % and was decent in 1st half put few more points and be anyhow active.
What would be his grade? Also A?

[PhantomDashCam]

- Totally agree with persevering with the Sochan PG experiment for long term betterment of the team.

- I really like Vassell and his constantly improving shot creation tools. But damn, boy oh boy does some of his new found Scoring responsibilities have that short circuiting offensive tendency that plagued DDR. I’m sure he’ll figure it out though.

- Tre J has been terrific as a backup PG to start the season. If the Spurs continue to utilise him in this matter, he could be a smoky 6th man candidate when the season wraps.

Small tidbit: I really liked the 3 pt play they ran for McBuckets out of a KJ post up. Simple, yet quality look for a shooter who was running hot at that point. Would like to see more of KJs post ups when Wembys out of the game.

[Fireball]

Sadly the 3 point shot already abandoned Tre after 1 game ... but otherwise he has been awesome! Hope he gets his stroke back on the road ...

[Obstructed_View]

Tre is starting off solid. Just what you want from a second teamer.

[JeffDuncan]

…

- I really like Vassell and his constantly improving shot creation tools. But damn, boy oh boy does some of his new found Scoring responsibilities have that short circuiting offensive tendency that plagued DDR. I’m sure he’ll figure it out though.


Vassell took 13 shots from the field and scored 25 points.

Who do you think should have been shooting, instead of him, on those possessions?

The comparison with DDR is asinine. When have you ever seen Vassell drive to the free throw line, then pump fake pump fake pump fake, jump into the defender to draw a foul while missing the shot, and then make one of two free throws? C’mon now.

[RC_Drunkford]

Vassell is a better player than DeRozan this season. Just off 3-point shooting and defense alone, while scoring the same amount of points. They completely different players

[Mr. Body]

Vassell isn't ball-stopping anymore than Parker was when he peppered teams with his midrange shots. These are intentional parts of the Spurs' offense.

[Truckules]

Tre is starting off solid. Just what you want from a second teamer.

More than solid, he's been the second best player on the team and maybe the most impactful. As a Tre Jones doubter, he's looking like he should be starting instead of Sochan.

[exstatic]

Ehh sometimes I think people forget the other player responsible for not finding Wemby: Wemby. He doesn’t really do a good job getting proper position and other times he calls for the ball in the post when the paint is already crowded. Like what is he going to do when he gets the ball? That’s an easy strip with how tall he is if he gets the ball and drives it in. Finding Wemby is easy. Finding Wemby when he’s got good position is harder. The players are justified when they dont pass it to him because they see that there’s more than just his primary defender behind him.

You don’t do a post entry pass, you do a lob at 11’ +, and no one else is getting that. He’s shown that he has an unreal lob/dunk range. That Miami dunk play was off two feet, from outside the restricted area. Sochan is a pretty damn good athlete, and in the Houston game, Wemby just took it out of his hands and dunked it. Just as he’s open for a jumper anywhere, if he’s within 10’ of the rim, he’s in position for a one step lob, anytime.

[Dejounte]

You don’t do a post entry pass, you do a lob at 11’ +, and no one else is getting that. He’s shown that he has an unreal lob/dunk range. That Miami dunk play was off two feet, from outside the restricted area. Sochan is a pretty damn good athlete, and in the Houston game, Wemby just took it out of his hands and dunked it. Just as he’s open for a jumper anywhere, if he’s within 10’ of the rim, he’s in position for a one step lob, anytime.

He’s hardly within 10’ of the rim as we saw in the first half of the Houston game with him chucking up 3’s. It got better in the second half and it was no coincidence that he was getting better looks from his teammates because he was there, which proves my point. If he continues that trend of being in better position a la the fourth quarter of the Houston game, then people will have no issues about who’s passing/ lobbing it up to Wemby.

[R. DeMurre]

Vassell's aggressiveness is such a positive sign-- he has 16 free throws in two games, compared to 100 FTs in 38 games last year. Small sample size of course, but that represents getting to the line more than 3x the amount he did last season, and is more than 5x better than his career average. Still too many long twos for my tastes, but as long as his scoring and shooting efficiencies stay up, I can't fault him much for those.

[TD 21]

- Tre J has been terrific as a backup PG to start the season. If the Spurs continue to utilise him in this matter, he could be a smoky 6th man candidate when the season wraps.

Not a chance. That foolishly remains the domain of scoring combo guards, on solid or better teams.

[PrimeMinister]

dev is an actual three level scorer which automatically makes him better than derozan

[Obstructed_View]

More than solid, he's been the second best player on the team and maybe the most impactful. As a Tre Jones doubter, he's looking like he should be starting instead of Sochan.
Lol that's idiotic. He's played closest to his ceiling for sure. Why fuck with that?

[Obstructed_View]

dev is an actual three level scorer which automatically makes him better than derozan
And he passes the ball. And he can contribute without the ball in his hands.

[PrimeMinister]

And he passes the ball. And he can contribute without the ball in his hands.

the list really goes on and on

[Fireball]

Derozan became a much better passer with the Spurs ... Vassell is not on that level yet. I don't like Derozan either but stop kidding yourself with regards to Devs passing ability

[PhantomDashCam]

Vassell took 13 shots from the field and scored 25 points.

Who do you think should have been shooting, instead of him, on those possessions?

The comparison with DDR is asinine. When have you ever seen Vassell drive to the free throw line, then pump fake pump fake pump fake, jump into the defender to draw a foul while missing the shot, and then make one of two free throws? C’mon now.

I think the DDR comparison, at times, is apt.

Both like to take contested long 2s which suggests they enjoy the affirmation that comes from making them, which inevitably leads to more, and then usually settling too much as a result...

You make good points though about FTA and the fact being he made 7 of 13 shots in this game.

[Seventyniner]

I think the DDR comparison, at times, is apt.

Both like to take contested long 2s which suggests they enjoy the affirmation that comes from making them, which inevitably leads to more, and then usually settling too much as a result...

You make good points though about FTA and the fact being he made 7 of 13 shots in this game.

For things like this the stat I like to look at is the percentage of a player's shots that come from each distance range (0-3, 3-10, 10-16, 16-3P, 3P)

Vassell has only played 173 games but that should be enough for this stat to be useful. For his career 12.5% of his shots are long twos (16-3P) and 47.8% of his shots are threes.

DeRozan, by contrast, has 28.8% of his career shots as long twos and 9.4% as threes. He shot fewer long twos as a Spur but still at a far higher clip than Vassell.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vassede01.html#shooting
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html#shooting

(https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html#shooting)They have similar TS% stats for their careers (0.543 Vassell, 0.553 DeRozan) but Vassell has some room to improve seeing as he's only 23.

[PhantomDashCam]

For things like this the stat I like to look at is the percentage of a player's shots that come from each distance range (0-3, 3-10, 10-16, 16-3P, 3P)

Vassell has only played 173 games but that should be enough for this stat to be useful. For his career 12.5% of his shots are long twos (16-3P) and 47.8% of his shots are threes.

DeRozan, by contrast, has 28.8% of his career shots as long twos and 9.4% as threes. He shot fewer long twos as a Spur but still at a far higher clip than Vassell.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vassede01.html#shooting
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html#shooting

(https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/derozde01.html#shooting)They have similar TS% stats for their careers (0.543 Vassell, 0.553 DeRozan) but Vassell has some room to improve seeing as he's only 23.

Thanks for sharing Seventyniner.
It shows you and JeffDuncan are right and that I'm unfairly putting Devin into DDR territory.
For clarity, I was classifying any shots from outside the key to inside the 3pt line as a "long 2", which appears to be an oversimplification on my part.

Here were a few of the shots from the Houston game that had me concerned though.

https://jumpshare.com/s/bLiqqXPfVcdOOKeIL71C
https://pouch.jumpshare.com/preview/4Jih6arpzVw_WHUdAR0AeTs3_hsQGo-zHoQinN3YdQUJhy39T5NQ_IkZWXoaB7_3fasf1gYxh-b-C9Mmc-H0RegxkBjX_MIzIffbEVVH7Jg

https://pouch.jumpshare.com/preview/6Vi6wny58uanbyDZASe2fTOx7DrjBkJBoWvZvATV69x8MOX4Ht s7wbk5lRRYRxyTfasf1gYxh-b-C9Mmc-H0RZQWYxtJgKZP7DejPB5ScZ8

This shot was late game and although he made it, I believe it subsequently influenced him on the next couple.

It won't let me upload anymore gifs but here is a link to the next two shots he took:

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&GameID=0022300083&PlayerID=1630170&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

at 2:17 mark of the 4th and the contested 3 at the 3:26 mark of OT.




https://jmp.sh/s/bLiqqXPfVcdOOKeIL71C

[Obstructed_View]

DDR also pounded the air out of the ball every time down. You guys don't remember how ball dominant he was.

[Seventyniner]

Here were a few of the shots from the Houston game that had me concerned though.https://jmp.sh/s/bLiqqXPfVcdOOKeIL71C

While I think comparing Vassell to DDR was going too far, you have a point that falling in love with the midrange J is a recipe for bad basketball. I can't stand possessions like that second one, where Vassell thinks that a spinning fadeaway long two is a good shot with 10 seconds still left on the shot clock. I think the offense would be much more efficient if shots like that just never happened.