Will Sochan be able to recover from this???

[spursparker9]

Hope this experiment will not destroy his confidence. He made the all-rookie 2nd team and was deemed as having great potential moving forward. But now it seems he regressed in all aspect of his game.

I remember Beno Udrih was destroyed by Linsay Hunter in the 2005 Finals (his rookie year) where he can't even dribble the ball past half court...

Eventually, he lost Pop's trust and was benched. Brent Barry replaced him as the backup PG till Beno was traded.

[Russo21]

I have no hope for Sochan. Hopefully we can package him and Keldon for someone we need. Both those two can go. And no I'm not cliff jumping, I just don't rate those 2 and find Keldon is just flat out annoying with his non stop screaming and flexing

[JeffDuncan]

Pop put Sochan in a position to fail. If Sochan were given an honest chance he would look better.

[onechance87]

Pop put Sochan in a position to fail. If Sochan were given an honest chance he would look better.

for fucks sake....They guy cant make easy layups.....Pretty much useless on offense....Defence is sus as well

[z0sa]

Yeah, this isn’t the NBA finals. It’s game 3 of 82 after one of the worst seasons ever, in NBA history.

[Dex]

I'm losing faith in the Sochan PG experiment already. The team just plays scattered without an actual facilitator on the floor.

On the season, Sochan is a team-worst -48.

Tre Jones is +15 in basically the same minutes.

I know there will be growing pains but if this continues, Spurs need to make a move and the obvious one (in my opinion) is to start Tre Jones and move Keldon to the bench where he will have more freedom to do the things he does best.

Sochan can still bring the ball up or handle some passing occasionally but it shouldn't be his primary responsibility.

[MultiTroll]

Not good.
1718851593096015930

[Fireball]

At the start of the season I wanted to have Wemby, Vassell and Sochan in the SL, did not care about anything else. Now I am willing to send Sochan to the bench for Tre ... Jeremy can regain his confidence against other teams' benches.
Apart from his PG shortcomings he also does not seem to individually defend like we saw last season. Its a bummer ...

[Fireball]

Not good.
1718851593096015930

That is a great answer and just shows the standard he has set for himself.

[spursparker9]

That is a great answer and just shows the standard he has set for himself.

Yea, at least show that he has high expectations for himself and he understand that his performance in the past 3 games is not up to his expectation.

Game 1: Foul trouble, Turnover issues.
Game 2: Mediocre through 3 quarters and came alive in 4th Q and OT. Clutch performance but it was a struggle nonetheless
Game 3: Turnover issues and missed 3 pts and FTs.

Other than game 1, he can't hit the 3 pointers.

[sfernald]

Stay on target… remember guys we are in experimental, developmental laboratory mode for the next three to eight years. In this mode losses are wins, turnovers are steals and hero ball is encouraged. After all, we need to see what we got. The broth is boiling, the cake is baking and the stew is stewing. There’s no bad plays out there. There’s no plays called at all! Got to protect at all costs our next high draft pick.

[spursparker9]

Stay on target… remember guys we are in experimental, developmental laboratory mode for the next three to eight years. In this mode losses are wins, turnovers are steals and hero ball is encouraged. After all, we need to see what we got. The broth is boiling, the cake is baking and the stew is stewing. There’s no bad plays out there. There’s no plays called at all! Got to protect at all costs our next high draft pick.

Yes, understand still in experimental mode. Just that after a failed experiment, is the failed subjects still the same before the experiment? Will they be able to start afresh so easily? Or will there be any negative lingering effects that will stay with players affecting their psyche and developments?

[MultiTroll]

That is a great answer and just shows the standard he has set for himself.
I was thinking in terms of GOAT coach ever and the situations leading to the Wama outcome thru 3 games.

[Leetonidas]

I feel like playmaking/vision is something you either have or you don't. Coupled with his poor handle and lack of athleticism, Sochan will never be a passable PG. It's time to end this silly experiment

[MultiTroll]

Pop is the point guard whisperer. :spin
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/bryn-forbes-and-patty-mills-of-the-san-antonio-spurs-talk-against-the-picture-id901301050

[tim_duncan_fan]

That is a great answer and just shows the standard he has set for himself.

It's also witty. Wit is always a great sign in a person.

[BacktoBasics]

The trade Sochan talk is stupid. We're not winning any rings this year so I don't mind riding it out a bit longer but Sochan is clearly better in any other position than PG. Starting 3 would be fine if they're hellbent on Wemby not being a 5.

[sfernald]

Yes, understand still in experimental mode. Just that after a failed experiment, is the failed subjects still the same before the experiment? Will they be able to start afresh so easily? Or will there be any negative lingering effects that will stay with players affecting their psyche and developments?

if the sochan experiment at pg fails, he will still gain great experience as a secondary creator. As long as he isn’t just a broken shell of the player he once was, lacking the confidence to even get up in the morning.

[aissagholi7981]

We’re the youngest team in the league
OKC just got destroyed by the Nuggets
Everyone calm down and let’s see where we are at in 20 games

[sfernald]

We’re the youngest team in the league
OKC just got destroyed by the Nuggets
Everyone calm down and let’s see where we are at in 20 games

I’m gonna guess 4-16 if they don’t fix the pg situation. Assuming this right on target right?

[rascal]

The trade Sochan talk is stupid. We're not winning any rings this year so I don't mind riding it out a bit longer but Sochan is clearly better in any other position than PG. Starting 3 would be fine if they're hellbent on Wemby not being a 5.

No, trading Sochan is not stupid.

It depends on the return you'll get for him. The only untradeable player is Wemby.

[Mal]

Pop is trying something here with Sochan at PG, Collins at C and Wemby at PF. I have faith in Pop, we will see.

[John B]

Sochan is a fighter. He doesn’t back down from a fight. It’s better to lose miserably now and get that blood taste in his mouth. If he is the fighter that I think he is, it’s just going to motivate him more to improve. If he does, he woukd be a great player. And even if PATFO decides to get a vet PG in his place, Spurs would jave a defensive big man who can facilitate and that’s a very valuable weapon to have.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm losing faith in the Sochan PG experiment already. The team just plays scattered without an actual facilitator on the floor.

On the season, Sochan is a team-worst -48.

Tre Jones is +15 in basically the same minutes.

I know there will be growing pains but if this continues, Spurs need to make a move and the obvious one (in my opinion) is to start Tre Jones and move Keldon to the bench where he will have more freedom to do the things he does best.

Sochan can still bring the ball up or handle some passing occasionally but it shouldn't be his primary responsibility.

this doesn't make sense. If anybody goes to the bench it's Sochan. You can't start 2 non-shooters in the modern NBA

[DJR210]

I know it's early.. but I don't see how the skill set of this core of players gels..

[baseline bum]

I know Pop's gotta be worried about shattering Sochan's confidence by sending him to the bench after a good rookie season, but making him play a position he can't succeed in will be way worse for it.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Sochan you mean the dude who went to one handed free throws to try to fix his broken shot?

Him losing his confidence bc he's struggling to run point ... not a worry imo

[poopbox]

Sochan will be fine. Not sure his future is really at PG. He is only doing that because Wemby is the 4 and Pop wants the starting lineup together since for now it is the future of the team.

Much more concerned with 3 of our 4 bigs starting leaving Bassey as the only backup big and playing osman or mcdermott at the 4. Yuck.

[spurraider21]

im not worried about him generally. he's just being asked to do something he's not equipped to do. the main part that concerns me is his defensive impact. not sure where he's supposed to excel there. what archetype player is he supposed to be a good defensive matchup against?

he does enough of the little things on offense to be useful, like we saw last year. a post up here, a cut/dunk/lob there, a midrange jumper here, a nice pocket pass there. but doing enough to be viable on the floor offensively

a) is fine as long as you are also an impact defender
b) doesnt mean that he should be thrust into the role of the primary offensive initiator

[hater]

Poor mans Ime Udoka?

Its on Pop to make him believe hes an nba player. He should be in China making some dough

[BacktoBasics]

No, trading Sochan is not stupid.

It depends on the return you'll get for him. The only untradeable player is Wemby.

Thanks Captain Obvious. Sure, if you're gonna return something substantial then you never say never. But the talk is stupid considering he isn't at a level where you're gonna get a return that matches the potential... especially playing him out of position.

I don't see a lot of potential packages that would justify moving him. Certainly not if its a package that requires any amount of sacrifice on our end.

If Sochan is playing the 3 or 4 this season we don't have this thread. Absolutely, this experiment is tough to watch when you got a player that can hold down the PG spot relatively efficiently in Tre but this thread and that kind of talk is nothing more than typical ST sky is falling nonsense. I'd rather watch Sochan at point than cringe through these posts.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Not good.
1718851593096015930
that's all
he will request a trade before the end of the season
the whole team must crawl on their knees and ask for forgiveness

[hater]

Thanks Captain Obvious. Sure, if you're gonna return something substantial then you never say never. But the talk is stupid considering he isn't at a level where you're gonna get a return that matches the potential... especially playing him out of position.

I don't see a lot of potential packages that would justify moving him. Certainly not if its a package that requires any amount of sacrifice on our end.

If Sochan is playing the 3 or 4 this season we don't have this thread. Absolutely, this experiment is tough to watch when you got a player that can hold down the PG spot relatively efficiently in Tre but this thread and that kind of talk is nothing more than typical ST sky is falling nonsense. I'd rather watch Sochan at point than cringe through these posts.

The guy cant fucking shoot for shit

Doesnt have the hops of lateral mobility either

And hes mediocre at D at best


So at the 3 or 4 doesnt matter. Dude is a zero

[JeffDuncan]

… If anybody goes to the bench it's Sochan. You can't start 2 non-shooters in the modern NBA


Right, of course. Sochan needs to be the backup PF behind Wemby. And with the way Pop is handling Wemby, Sochan would probably get more playing time than Wemby by being the backup PF, just by the way.

So far, with Sochan at PG, it’s looking like the Spurs weren’t satisfied with having the NBA’s worst defense last season, they want to have the worst offense, too.

[MultiTroll]

I know Pop's gotta be worried about shattering Sochan's confidence by sending him to the bench after a good rookie season, but making him play a position he can't succeed in will be way worse for it.
Since the requirement of Pop since having to roll the ball out to Parker while Timmy Duncan served as Player Coach of his era, here are Poppeds point guard accomplishments:

Enrique Ballhog Porker
Patty w Bryn Bryn
Primo forced out of position (see a theme here?). Look we now know that Primo had off the court issues. That withstanding, he is another who had some off ball skills that were being choked out by forcing him at PG.
Sochan

Spurs need a better ending here.

[scott]

A big problem with this experiment is that I’ve yet to see even a stretch of a few possessions where you can see the flash of potential and make you say “okay… I see where this could go”. Even the 43pt first Q against the Mavs didn’t produce this, at least from the POV of Sochan and PG.

Maybe it’s coming… but it’s hard to buy into this Sochan PG fantasy without any real glimpse into what the ultimate payoff might be.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I know it's early.. but I don't see how the skill set of this core of players gels..

They think/thought:

Zack would defend the paint and rebound
Wemby would score from all over, get unconventional blocks
Keldon would drive and score, drive and kick, shoot threes, get a handful of assists
Devin would make lots of jumpers even when contested
Sochan would pass like Zack does, score inside, occasionally hit threes


The problem is, only one of the guys is doing the thing the office thought they would be good at. And none of them are great defenders.

[Dex]

this doesn't make sense. If anybody goes to the bench it's Sochan. You can't start 2 non-shooters in the modern NBA

Vassell, Collins, and Wemby can all shoot the three.

Tre Jones is also shooting a higher percentage than Keldon right now, albeit on lower volume.

I know the starting unit always needs shooting, but you can't just break everything else because one guy is a marginally better shooter and frankly I don't see any way Pop and Co bring Sochan off the bench.

It's between Keldon or Jones and Tre is better at running the team.

[BacktoBasics]

The guy cant fucking shoot for shit

Doesnt have the hops of lateral mobility either

And hes mediocre at D at best


So at the 3 or 4 doesnt matter. Dude is a zero

Crazy huh. You'd think playing the guy wildly out of position would translate better :rolleyes

[Mugen]

Vassell, Collins, and Wemby can all shoot the three.

Tre Jones is also shooting a higher percentage than Keldon right now, albeit on lower volume.

I know the starting unit always needs shooting, but you can't just break everything else because one guy is a marginally better shooter and frankly I don't see any way Pop and Co bring Sochan off the bench.

It's between Keldon or Jones and Tre is better at running the team.

:lol I know it's been 3 games but 7% from 3 so far tbh

[Mugen]

Wemby < 25%

There's a difference between shooting the 3 and having nba defenses respect it tbh. The Spurs have 1.5 credible 3pt shooters so far in the SL IMO.

[spurraider21]

Wemby < 25%

There's a difference between shooting the 3 and having nba defenses respect it tbh. The Spurs have 1.5 credible 3pt shooters so far in the SL IMO.
he's too trigger happy with them, especially the ones in transition as the trailer. and aside from just filtering out the objectively bad shots, even in the half court, i dont think he needs to be looking at the 3 point shot as the shot he wants to get. but sure, if the shot clock is getting to that territory, him picking and popping for 3 is a perfectly ok outcome.

[spurraider21]

:lol I know it's been 3 games but 7% from 3 so far tbh
might be an unpopular opinion, but i think he has to keep shooting them. if he's playing alongside victor, he's going to get a lot of those looks, and if defenses start having to respect it more, it will free victor up closer to the rim as well. once he starts passing those shots up, then theres a legitimate question of why he's in that lineup. if you just wanted a center to do the other stuff, they could always just play bassey

he's still passing the ball well, and he's made 13 of his 18 two point attempts this year. so really its been the outside shooting thats been killing him offensively, and frankly, they've been very high quality looks. its not like he's forcing up bad looks off the dribble over contests

defensively its been a different story. i never bought into the "look heres this stat showing he's actually secretly an elite rim protector" stuff but he's basically being targeted down low. cant be letting zubac get 16 and 8 in 22 minutes

[Mugen]

might be an unpopular opinion, but i think he has to keep shooting them. if he's playing alongside victor, he's going to get a lot of those looks, and if defenses start having to respect it more, it will free victor up closer to the rim as well. once he starts passing those shots up, then theres a legitimate question of why he's in that lineup. if you just wanted a center to do the other stuff, they could always just play bassey

he's still passing the ball well, and he's made 13 of his 18 two point attempts this year. so really its been the outside shooting thats been killing him offensively, and frankly, they've been very high quality looks. its not like he's forcing up bad looks off the dribble over contests

defensively its been a different story. i never bought into the "look heres this stat showing he's actually secretly an elite rim protector" stuff but he's basically being targeted down low. cant be letting zubac get 16 and 8 in 22 minutes

I'm fine with him shooting those if they're sagging off but he's firing them like he's prime Steph :lol

Need to rewatch the possessions but I'm not sure if he's even making what should be the primary read of getting it down to Victor in the paint.

[spurs10]

I think Sochan's height made it interesting to start, as if he could more easy hit Wemby. This is not the case and Tre is much better at getting it to Wemby. Sometimes it was just strange he didn't pass the ball to Wemby.

[onechance87]

I think Sochan's height made it interesting to start, as if he could more easy hit Wemby. This is not the case and Tre is much better at getting it to Wemby. Sometimes it was just strange he didn't pass the ball to Wemby.

yup..we are gonna have to keep an eye on that the next few games..

[spurraider21]

I'm fine with him shooting those if they're sagging off but he's firing them like he's prime Steph :lol

Need to rewatch the possessions but I'm not sure if he's even making what should be the primary read of getting it down to Victor in the paint.
there was at least one from yesterday's game (or might have been houston, cant recall) where vic was calling for the ball in the paint at the same time, but i dont really remember seeing any of collins attempts thinking the shot selection was really an issue. ive had less of an issue with collins' 3pt shot selection than wemby's tbh

obviously when you are making 1/15 everything is going to look and feel awful

but zollins taking five 3's per game is probably about the target number anyway. he was shooting 4.4 per game last year post-break in 28mpg, and he's playing 32mpg now

[mudd]

when is the last time you see a pro player not know where to throw an inbound pass.. jr high skill for a point guard..

[Davidicus]

I haven't been watching Sochan super closely, no surprise I watch Wemby most of the game.

My whole problem with Sochan at Point is - are there any flashes of greatness??

I could understand if Sochan had an amazing pass 1x/game, or occasionally locked down the opposite point guard with his excessive length. Then I'd agree with Pop to spend more development time here.

Am I missing these plays??

[JeffDuncan]

…

My whole problem with Sochan at Point is - are there any flashes of greatness??

I could understand if Sochan had an amazing pass 1x/game, or occasionally locked down the opposite point guard with his excessive length. Then I'd agree with Pop to spend more development time here.

Am I missing these plays??


If you are, I am too, and I’ve watched all the games. I haven’t seen that point guard “flash” yet. Maybe I blinked.

[MultiTroll]

when is the last time you see a pro player not know where to throw an inbound pass.. jr high skill for a point guard..
Rack it.

And don't have to be a point guard to know how to throw a damn inbound pass.

[SayTown]

Vassell, Collins, and Wemby can all shoot the three.

Tre Jones is also shooting a higher percentage than Keldon right now, albeit on lower volume.

I know the starting unit always needs shooting, but you can't just break everything else because one guy is a marginally better shooter and frankly I don't see any way Pop and Co bring Sochan off the bench.

It's between Keldon or Jones and Tre is better at running the team.

Wemby can't shoot the three

[Tyronn Lue]

The players surrounding your 1st overall phenom are scrubs. Saying their names repeatedly and building shrines to them here doesn't make them better players. They are the reason you were able to draft Wemby. Do you expect them to shine suddenly? Spurs will need to make some big moves to compete and I am not sure they are willing to do that right now, but you never know.

[rascal]

Spurs need upgrades to the roster. People think a 19 year old can turn around one of the worst teams in the league last year in year one.

[Dex]

Wemby can't shoot the three

Neither can Keldon, if we are being brutally honest

[KobesAchilles]

Neither can Keldon, if we are being brutally honest
KJ can’t do much to impact the game positively if we are being brutally honest. He’s a bench player at best. Really I think we would have the best bench in the league if we ever get some real starters :lol

[TrainOfThought5]

Hope this experiment will not destroy his confidence. He made the all-rookie 2nd team and was deemed as having great potential moving forward. But now it seems he regressed in all aspect of his game.

I remember Beno Udrih was destroyed by Linsay Hunter in the 2005 Finals (his rookie year) where he can't even dribble the ball past half court...

Eventually, he lost Pop's trust and was benched. Brent Barry replaced him as the backup PG till Beno was traded.

my gripe is that if we were going to have Sochan as a PG experiment, it should have been with him coming off the bench. Him, Cedi, Branham Graham, and Bassey could be a very formidable bench unit with good shooting, good passing, and passable defense.

[Kawhi Duncan]

for fucks sake....They guy cant make easy layups.....Pretty much useless on offense....Defence is sus as well

I never saw this great defense he supposedly supposed to have... He constantly gets cooked

[Kawhi Duncan]

im not worried about him generally. he's just being asked to do something he's not equipped to do. the main part that concerns me is his defensive impact. not sure where he's supposed to excel there. what archetype player is he supposed to be a good defensive matchup against?

he does enough of the little things on offense to be useful, like we saw last year. a post up here, a cut/dunk/lob there, a midrange jumper here, a nice pocket pass there. but doing enough to be viable on the floor offensively

a) is fine as long as you are also an impact defender
b) doesnt mean that he should be thrust into the role of the primary offensive initiator

The issue with this is that him not being a good PG dramatically slows the development of Wemby... And once that "bust", talk starts, who knows how it will affect Wemby's confidence... He may not be able to recover

[spursparker9]

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-ditch-giganto-ball-lineup-110000723.html

[EricB]

I have no hope for Sochan. Hopefully we can package him and Keldon for someone we need. Both those two can go. And no I'm not cliff jumping, I just don't rate those 2 and find Keldon is just flat out annoying with his non stop screaming and flexing


thanks for the input boomer

[EricB]

Not good.
1718851593096015930


lol so he should be happy so far?

[Sugus]

The issue with this is that him not being a good PG dramatically slows the development of Wemby... And once that "bust", talk starts, who knows how it will affect Wemby's confidence... He may not be able to recover

:lmao some of you really need to stop projecting your mental weakness onto these players JFC......

Sochan never going to recover from having his dribble picked, Wemby not going to recover from being called a bust, what's next? Keldon's never going to recover from clanking yet another 3??

[Seventyniner]

This thread is classic ST.

Last year the team was 5-2 after 7 games and there was talk here about making the play-in and shocking the world. We all know what happened after that.

It's been 3 games so far. Treat small sample sizes appropriately.

[The Truth #6]

This thread is classic ST.

Last year the team was 5-2 after 7 games and there was talk here about making the play-in and shocking the world. We all know what happened after that.

It's been 3 games so far. Treat small sample sizes appropriately.

Careful with that sort reasonable thinking. It's frowned upon here.

[MultiTroll]

^^ nothing to worry about. So Pop started Bryn Forbes for 3 games in a row.

Classic ST over reaction.

[LeBowen]

Sochan at PG experiment might or might not work, I personally think it can't work, but the problem is that even if it works, it's not a good fit with neither Wemby nor the rest of the roster.

Devin is the only supposedly key piece except Wemby who fits the modern NBA.
Keldon can be an energy guy off the bench for a playoff team, but that's it.
Zach is a C that can't defend.
Tre isn't a key piece, but he's an undersized point guard who can't shoot.
That's why Cedi looked great in these few games. Because he's the only modern NBA wing.

We have too many of these...abstract players that need way too many things to go their way in order to look good.
I personally think that Jeremy can be a perfect pair for Victor once he moves to C, but he'll never be a point guard.

But the biggest issue I have is that this season should be all about maximizing Victor's growth.
And having Sochan at PG is just awful for Victor. And for everyone else, tbh.

It's obvious that the baseline for this team should be Victor and Devin as 1A/AB. Everyone else needs to adjust.
Hopefully PATFO sees the light and we get an experienced point guard to run the show.

And hopefully Victor starts playing C whenever there's no actual elite post scorers on the other team. His limited minutes at C have shown us it's literally game breaking.
That's when Jeremy comes in as a perfect PF.

If not, then we need shooters to help Jeremy be useful as a PG.

[SayTown]

Neither can Keldon, if we are being brutally honest

He shot .398 for a whole season, I wonder if the scouting report that year was to help off him and leave him open and not close out on him. I didn't watch many games that year so I don't know lol.

[Russo21]

The guy cant fucking shoot for shit

Doesnt have the hops of lateral mobility either

And hes mediocre at D at best


So at the 3 or 4 doesnt matter. Dude is a zero

And he has no handles. And he seems to be missing Wemby on a lot of plays. He's a -1

[DAF86]

A smart guy said in the preseason that Sochan isn't a PG and never will be.

That same smart guy also said Wemby needs to stop playing like a 7'5" Allen Iverson and get closer to the basket. I wonder how many more games will it take for SpursTalk to catch up with that take.

[spursparker9]

I think this thread is relevant again. :lol

Sochan is no longer the PG...but he still sucks...did Pop destroyed his confidence?

[Chomag]

POp broke him just as he did to Lonnie

[TheGreatYacht]

He’s the worst player in the league, bar none. It used to be Malakai Branham but he’s at least been somewhat efficient as of late. Trae Young should be charged with terrorism to my beautiful country for allowing this scrub to drop 30

[spursparker9]

I hope that Sochan's trade value is at least a 2nd round pick. tbh.

Right now he can't def at high level.
Can't pass.
Can't dribble.
Can't rebound at high level.
3 point % improved but not moving any needle.
No chemistry with Wemby. Probably having the worst chemistry (passing term) with Wemby
Undersized PF.
No mid-range.