Jermaine and Jack not feeling it.

[picnroll]

link (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/13324394.htm)

Posted on Sun, Dec. 04, 2005

Here they go again. As if they hadn't already proved Reggie Miller correct with their constant bickering, two Pacers went at it again this week. Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson took an on-court disagreement to the bench with them in a game against the Atlanta Hawks. Teammates had to break up the argument, as people in the area and the Pacers coaches took notice of the dispute.

Pacers coach Rick Carlisle won't read much into the incident, but with these Pacers it's nothing new.

''My position on it is that I support the players,'' Carlisle said. ``There was a disagreement there. It manifested itself probably a little bit too much. After it happened we really bounced back and played really well. I don't want to overstate what did or did not happen. There was some frustration there.''

[ducks]

larry bird did say last year he did not know if they could keep tinsley,jackson,oneal and artest ALL hang out players on the same team..

tinsely is always hurt but he still knows the team better then their new piece

[Brodels]

I think all four of those players need to become a little more mature if Indiana is going to do anything, especially now that much of the veteran leadership (like Miller) is gone. Otherwise, I think Bird is right. Indiana has a lot of talent, but they are somewhat similar to the Portland team of a few years ago in the sense that they don't have the mentally solid, mature, stable veteran leadership it takes to win. They need at least some (if not most) of their stars to be cut from that mold. If you look at the past several champions, they are filled with mature leadership.

In addition, I continue to think that Jermaine is overrated. I just don't think he has the ability, toughness, and mental makeup to consistently carry his team when the going gets tough. I'd take Elton Brand over O'Neal any day.

I continue to like what the other three bring to the table, but mental makeup is certainly a question there as well.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Jackson is all about winnin and makin love to pressure, they be stupid to give him the sack, ooh la la

[GoSpurs21]

Jackson is a hot head that is all about himself and he deserves to be sent to the raptors

[picnroll]

I think Jack's days with the Pacers may be numbered. Granger will likely be getting major floor time by next season and Jack's talent to cost ratio makes him moveable. Jack may be destined to spend his days on some sucky team.

But Bird has also intimated this is the year for O'Neal to step up so it's not inconceivable that he get moved next summer too if the Pacers continue to disappoint.

[strangeweather]

Jackson is all about winnin and makin love to pressure, they be stupid to give him the sack, ooh la la

He was great on the Spurs, where the rest of the team was a stabilizing influence. Heck, he was even great on the Hawks, where there wasn't much of a team at all, and he was just taking his own shots.

But on a team as combustable as the Pacers, he's going to be part of the problem. My guess is that he'll be a steal for some lucky team in January or February.

[exstatic]

Barry for Jack. It works, salarywise, and ends the search for the LONG THREE.

[Brodels]

Barry for Jack. It works, salarywise, and ends the search for the LONG THREE.

Hell, I'd do it. But although Indiana does need another shooter, I think they might be able to get a little more for Jackson.

But maybe not. We'll see.

[picnroll]

Doubt the Pacers would be in any rush to help the Spurs out. More likely they'd boot him to some crap team for an expiring contract and a sweet draft pick.

[T Park]

Barry and Udrih for Stephen Jackson.


Do it pop.

DO IT.

[Brodels]

Barry and Udrih for Stephen Jackson.


Do it pop.

DO IT.

I just can't see Indiana going for that. The only exception is if Indiana is ready to commit to Fred Jones by giving him more minutes. Jones is starting quality.

Otherwise, they would be giving up a starter for two backup guards. And Barry's contract/production ratio isn't that appealing. With Tinsely there, it's hard to imagine that they would get Beno with the intention of grooming him as a starter.

It just seems like other options would make more sense for Indiana.

[T Park]

Beno is young, potential replacement for Sarunas.

Barry is a solid veteran who would stabilize the locker room.


I think it would be more appealing than you think.

[exstatic]

Sometimes teams let go of players for less than worth if they want to move them. Seems like Jack isn't a fit there. If he's causing problems with their franchise player and it's known around the league, they won't get many good offers. I know it comes as a shock, but Indy could start Barry. He's probably started as much in his career as Jack has, if not more.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

With Tinsely there, it's hard to imagine that they would get Beno with the intention of grooming him as a starter.

Tinsley has a propensity for getting hurt. Having another good point to step in when JT goes down is a luxury Indy doenst' currently have.

[ploto]

The worst thing that happened for Jax was Mike Brown leaving. He's the guy who kept him in line.

[Mr. Defense]

link (http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/basketball/13324394.htm)

Posted on Sun, Dec. 04, 2005

Here they go again. As if they hadn't already proved Reggie Miller correct with their constant bickering, two Pacers went at it again this week. Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson took an on-court disagreement to the bench with them in a game against the Atlanta Hawks. Teammates had to break up the argument, as people in the area and the Pacers coaches took notice of the dispute.

Pacers coach Rick Carlisle won't read much into the incident, but with these Pacers it's nothing new.

''My position on it is that I support the players,'' Carlisle said. ``There was a disagreement there. It manifested itself probably a little bit too much. After it happened we really bounced back and played really well. I don't want to overstate what did or did not happen. There was some frustration there.''


Kevin Garnett to the Pacers?

Nah...i mean, do McHale and Bird even know each other...:lol

[Mr. Defense]

But IF there is a way to get Ron Artest, and NO, i'm not dropping it...:lol

then the Spurs should get into the game. :tu

[boutons]

they're both dumb-ass, infantile punk-asses, no surprise they're bitchin at each other.

[leemajors]

Jackson is all about winnin and makin love to pressure, they be stupid to give him the sack, ooh la la
you're an idiot, o'neal is a franchise player. you can't build around someone who turns the ball over all the time and shoots with 20 on the clock all the time.

[Mr. Body]

Jackson on the Spurs no longer works. It worked when Ginobili was still finding his legs in the league, but with Jackson likely to be unhappy with coming off the bench, do you really want to sit Manu?

One of the great values of Brent is that he doesn't demand playing time.

[Brodels]

Beno is young, potential replacement for Sarunas.

Barry is a solid veteran who would stabilize the locker room.


I think it would be more appealing than you think.

The Pacers aren't going to give up a starting-quality swing man for an aging bad contract and a backup point guard.

We'll see what happens.

[bigzak25]

sup wolves....who does minny want besides oneill if you guys ship KG off to indy...

[ShoogarBear]

One of the great values of Brent is that he doesn't demand playing time.

True. Also true for NVE, Finley, and Horry. If one catches a DNP now and then, no squawking.

[George W. Bush]

Finley, Beno, Rasho, sheyiitt, even the rights to Scola, for Artest. Kevin Garnett for Oneill, Rasho and Beno or Scola.

I don't know finances though. Look at the national budget. Dick says its a good idear though.

[leemajors]

the pacers already have a backup better than beno.

[SequSpur]

The only place Beno is going is back to Slovenia after the Spurs waive him.

Tpark, Barry is a long three. Are you blind? Did you watch the game last night?

Barry isn't going anywhere.

[exstatic]

The Pacers aren't going to give up a starting-quality swing man for an aging bad contract and a backup point guard.

We'll see what happens.

Brent's contract is a little bit less than Jack's, and runs two years shorter(2more vs. 4more). Indy has to start offloading some of their psychos, and since Artest is better than Jack, Jack gotta go. The trade would probably save them 10-12M for those two years, and free up rotation time for their youngster Granger.

Jack isn't that great a day to day player. He is a good fit here because he's long, defends, and hits clutch shots. Barry is a fit there because he gives them a better ball handler (PG quality) and is a deadly shooter, much better than Jack in Qs 1-3. He's also not a problem child, which must be attractive to that nursery that is Indy.

[exstatic]

Barry is not a long three. The Spurs are looking for someone younger who is at least 6'8" to step in for Bruce in a year or two.

[T Park]

Barry is a long three

Barry is 6'4 and slow.

He is NOT a long 3.


Demaar Johnson, Matt Barnes, THOSE are long 3s.


On top of that Barry is like 33 34 years old.


The Spurs are looking for someone younger who is at least 6'8" to step in for Bruce in a year or two

Thank you.

[SequSpur]

Barry is not a long three. The Spurs are looking for someone younger who is at least 6'8" to step in for Bruce in a year or two.

Now we are looking for a Bruce Jr... Is this on the ESPN Insider? I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something.

The Spurs are weak at the Center position. This is the only position that they should be looking at. The Spurs are loaded at every other position hence the championship and excellent start.

I don't think the Spurs are looking for anyone, unless Ginobili is still out hurt a few more games.

It will probably be another guard or shooting guard, as usual.

I am quite sure that Sprewell will be along for the Ring ride come allstar break.

If not him, then some other freeloader.

[T Park]

The Spurs are weak at the Center position

Yeah that 12 7 and 2 blocks last night was pretty weak.

[SequSpur]

Barry is 6'4 and slow.
He is NOT a long 3.
Demaar Johnson, Matt Barnes, THOSE are long 3s.
On top of that Barry is like 33 34 years old.
Thank you.

Matt Barnes and Demaar Johnson fucking blow.

You rehash the same shit that has been discussed in the past that is never going to happen.

You got some new shit off the wire?

[Rescueone]

Barry is 6'4 and slow.

He is NOT a long 3.


Demaar Johnson, Matt Barnes, THOSE are long 3s.


On top of that Barry is like 33 34 years old.



Thank you.


Not only is he slow, the dude can't play a lick of defense and his shot is in a funk. He makes stupid ass turn overs like a kid in a YMCA league.

[wildbill2u]

I think Jack's days with the Pacers may be numbered. Granger will likely be getting major floor time by next season and Jack's talent to cost ratio makes him moveable. Jack may be destined to spend his days on some sucky team.

But Bird has also intimated this is the year for O'Neal to step up so it's not inconceivable that he get moved next summer too if the Pacers continue to disappoint.

If you have to make a choice between O'Neal and Jackson as a GM, you don't wait a second to move Jax.

[wildbill2u]

The worst thing that happened for Jax was Mike Brown leaving. He's the guy who kept him in line.

Did you hear about the confrontation between the two of them last year that almost came to blows? Word is that the rest of the players had asked Brown to talk to Jax about his selfish play--and Jax blew up at the guy who was responsible for his going to the team, the coach who really wanted him and has worked with him.

[strangeweather]

If you have to make a choice between O'Neal and Jackson as a GM, you don't wait a second to move Jax.

Indeed. The only way you don't keep O'Neal is if McHale is actually stupid enough to deal Garnett.

[TwoHandJam]

Barry is 6'4 and slow.

He is NOT a long 3.


Demaar Johnson, Matt Barnes, THOSE are long 3s.


On top of that Barry is like 33 34 years old.



Thank you.

No. Barry is a legit 6'6" but he can't be considered a long 3. Those players are usually at least 6'8".

[Marcus Bryant]

So it's unreasonable to advocate some depth by signing a minimum salary free agent but perfectly reasonable to expect Indiana to help out the Champs by giving up Jack for a 54 year old Brent Barry?

[Rydia]

haha This just thrills me! First the Pacers got killed by the Suns and then they can't stop arguing...they will NEVER make it past the Spurs and that's all I care about!!

hahaha....laughing all the way down the street. Poor Reggie...he'll never see them claim a ring!