I tried to tell yall MFuuhs

[lebomb]

Sochan was not a good pick for the Spurs. Maybe second round, but not a lottery pick. Duren has a much bigger upside, mainly because he can score and has an offensive game. I saw Sochan at Baylor and thought he was decent at best. I dont know what the Spurs saw. Anyhow, I like the young niggra :claw and I do hope he surprises me and turns it around. But, I kinda doubt it. :depressed

[spursparker9]

His ceiling is probably Draymond Green.

Triple Single with good defensive skills and some passing skills.

[BacktoBasics]

The biggest problem with Sochan isn’t Sochan it’s the people here who can’t understand that for better or worse… the PG experiment is what has Sochan looking discombobulated and out of character. He playing a role he’s not really built for. Maybe there’s a payoff at the end of the experiment or maybe not.

But the argument is pointless. Now if Sochan were in a role like last year and struggled then I’d understand but this board really lacks the ability to see the whole picture before bitching and moaning.

[bluebellmaniac]

Regardless of whether Sochan can fill the PG roll or not, he will come out of this a better ball handler, a better passer and overall a better player. Doesn't matter if he is comfortable being the PG. He will still be a better player with the improved skills he will gain. Then he can go back to a "big" position and help dominate. We should have a dedicated PG next year. Don't be in such a rush.

[TDomination]

The biggest problem with Sochan isn’t Sochan it’s the people here who can’t understand that for better or worse… the PG experiment is what has Sochan looking discombobulated and out of character. He playing a role he’s not really built for. Maybe there’s a payoff at the end of the experiment or maybe not.

But the argument is pointless. Now if Sochan were in a role like last year and struggled then I’d understand but this board really lacks the ability to see the whole picture before bitching and moaning.

people in general lack patience. people want to see results already, understandably.
but championship contenders are not built overnight. it takes time. even with a phenom like Wemby.

i gotta see sochan, at minimum, until all star break to form an opinion on his PG play. until then, its all about trying to improve.

[lebomb]

The biggest problem with Sochan isn’t Sochan it’s the people here who can’t understand that for better or worse… the PG experiment is what has Sochan looking discombobulated and out of character. He playing a role he’s not really built for. Maybe there’s a payoff at the end of the experiment or maybe not.

But the argument is pointless. Now if Sochan were in a role like last year and struggled then I’d understand but this board really lacks the ability to see the whole picture before bitching and moaning.

Ehhhhh maybe. I just dont see Sochan as much of a sorcerer. Maybe a Bruce Bowen type player is his ceiling? Definitely NOT a point guard though.

[exstatic]

Ehhhhh maybe. I just dont see Sochan as much of a sorcerer. Maybe a Bruce Bowen type player is his ceiling? Definitely NOT a point guard though.

He dropped at least one 30 pointer as a rookie, maybe a couple.

[JeffDuncan]

He dropped at least one 30 pointer as a rookie, maybe a couple.


Sochan scored 30 on 01/28/23 in a 10pt loss to the Suns.

[Leetonidas]

Sochan would be fine playing his natural position. Problem is he is being shoe horned into a role he is not suited for

[exstatic]

Sochan would be fine playing his natural position. Problem is he is being shoe horned into a role he is not suited for

Shoehorning Giannis into that role, and JKidd absolutely played him at PG and would not let anyone call him a point forward, paid off in him becoming a superstar. Not saying that will happen, but attempting to stretch one's skillset usually pays off in some way.

[Leetonidas]

Shoehorning Giannis into that role, and JKidd absolutely played him at PG and would not let anyone call him a point forward, paid off in him becoming a superstar. Not saying that will happen, but attempting to stretch one's skillset usually pays off in some way.

I don't think that helped Giannis at all, imo. Giannis would have turned out the same whether Kidd tried that nonsense or not

[playblair]

brian wright has a history of making the wrong picks........plz look at his tenure with pistons he picked busts over players who became stars sound familiar haliburton/sengun/duren/ ...........wright was a diversity hire he was not hired on merit......

[JeffDuncan]

Shoehorning Giannis into that role, and JKidd absolutely played him at PG and would not let anyone call him a point forward, paid off in him becoming a superstar. Not saying that will happen, but attempting to stretch one's skillset usually pays off in some way.


Giannis wasn’t stretching his skill set, tho. See the following.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/18/4442950/2013-nba-draft-prospect-profile-giannis-antetokounmpo-adetokoubo-adetokunbo-celtics

That’s a draft profile from 2013. A pertinent quote:

“Something that is apparent to almost everyone that watches Giannis Antetokounmpo play is his ability to command the point guard position. While he's unlikely to play point guard in the NBA, it's not out of the question for him to play in a point forward type of role because he shows exceptional versatility.”

Giannis already had recognized point guard skill when he was drafted.

[Atl Spur]

Patience dear boys……. 7 games in at a new position and this is the behavior ? This is the best league on the planet hes doing an ojt……just saying.

[Atl Spur]

Giannis wasn’t stretching his skill set, tho. See the following.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2013/6/18/4442950/2013-nba-draft-prospect-profile-giannis-antetokounmpo-adetokoubo-adetokunbo-celtics

That’s a draft profile from 2013. A pertinent quote:

“Something that is apparent to almost everyone that watches Giannis Antetokounmpo play is his ability to command the point guard position. While he's unlikely to play point guard in the NBA, it's not out of the question for him to play in a point forward type of role because he shows exceptional versatility.”

Giannis already had recognized point guard skill when he was drafted.
Every year:)….. This isn’t a shot in the dark people
the athletic: Jeremy Sochan scouting report

Can be the ballhandler in screen-and-rolls as well as the screener. Shows real grab-and-go ability in the open floor to start the break. In the half court, understands how to get an angle and drive to the rim with good extension to cover ground quickly. Knows how to put defenders off balance with pump-fakes and jab steps, and it doesn’t take much for him to beat a defender because of his length and quickness combination.

[Atl Spur]

This is why you give him more on ball time; Kawhi didn’t have this pressure year two ( hence the hof point guard ). Let’s stop trying to rewrite history. Enjoy the process big homie

[Atl Spur]

brian wright has a history of making the wrong picks........plz look at his tenure with pistons he picked busts over players who became stars sound familiar haliburton/sengun/duren/ ...........wright was a diversity hire he was not hired on merit......

Shame on you…..no respect for you kid! That diversity hire remark is out of bounds; oh just so you know, he’s the GM getting credit for drafting Victor ��

[Extra Stout]

Sochan is a good player. Even if he doesn’t become a long-term point guard, this stint will hone his skills as a secondary ballhandler and playmaker.

[exstatic]

I don't think that helped Giannis at all, imo. Giannis would have turned out the same whether Kidd tried that nonsense or not

No. Him handling the ball that much changed him from a likely star to an All NBA player and a superstar.

[cd98]

Anybody can dribble the ball up the court. Sochan can guard any point guard or shooting guard in the league (he's got the foot speed and length) and he can post up and shoot over any guard or shooting guard that will be forced to guard him. Maybe he never develops into a creator or a floor general, but let's at least see what he can become. Otherwise, he's a back up to Wemby and the pick goes no where. Let's give him the same time that we gave DJM, Kawhi, Parker, etc and then in two years, we'll see how many of you are happy to see him go.

[Kawhi Duncan]

Sochan was not a good pick for the Spurs. Maybe second round, but not a lottery pick. Duren has a much bigger upside, mainly because he can score and has an offensive game. I saw Sochan at Baylor and thought he was decent at best. I dont know what the Spurs saw. Anyhow, I like the young niggra :claw and I do hope he surprises me and turns it around. But, I kinda doubt it. :depressed

Ppl always think Pop is some secret genius that knows better than everyone else

[Kawhi Duncan]

Regardless of whether Sochan can fill the PG roll or not, he will come out of this a better ball handler, a better passer and overall a better player. Doesn't matter if he is comfortable being the PG. He will still be a better player with the improved skills he will gain. Then he can go back to a "big" position and help dominate. We should have a dedicated PG next year. Don't be in such a rush.

Hopefully maybe develop Sohan at the cost of Wemby's development by not structuring an offense with an actual PG around him... Gotcha

[Kawhi Duncan]

brian wright has a history of making the wrong picks........plz look at his tenure with pistons he picked busts over players who became stars sound familiar haliburton/sengun/duren/ ...........wright was a diversity hire he was not hired on merit......

Crazy how there's tons of shitty white GMs, and they never get told they were only hired because they were white

[Kawhi Duncan]

Anybody can dribble the ball up the court. Sochan can guard any point guard or shooting guard in the league (he's got the foot speed and length) and he can post up and shoot over any guard or shooting guard that will be forced to guard him. Maybe he never develops into a creator or a floor general, but let's at least see what he can become. Otherwise, he's a back up to Wemby and the pick goes no where. Let's give him the same time that we gave DJM, Kawhi, Parker, etc and then in two years, we'll see how many of you are happy to see him go.

No he can't... He gets cooked on defense and he can't make a layup on offense... Dude backed down their pg last night and put up an awkward fadeaway that missed badly

[RC_Drunkford]

Anybody can dribble the ball up the court. Sochan can guard any point guard or shooting guard in the league (he's got the foot speed and length) and he can post up and shoot over any guard or shooting guard that will be forced to guard him. Maybe he never develops into a creator or a floor general, but let's at least see what he can become. Otherwise, he's a back up to Wemby and the pick goes no where. Let's give him the same time that we gave DJM, Kawhi, Parker, etc and then in two years, we'll see how many of you are happy to see him go.

I‘m patient with Sochan, but he can not guard quick guards and when he posts them up he shoots a fadeaway and clanks it at the front of the rim

[John B]

If anything Sochan is “neglecting” to develop his skills attacking the rim and getting free throws with this PG experiment, as what he did last year. That’s the downside. Of course he is stretching his “facilitator” skills which I believe the end product of this experiment, a Bobo type big defensive player who can help move the ball. I don’t see Pop necessarily making Sochan a PG but creating a “Boris” type kind of player while we wait on Wemby, and a “Boris” type will help move the ball. I think in the end the Spurs will still get a true PG either by trade or draft, but not necessarily Sochan.

[Chinook]

I think Sochan is a good player, but I also think the coaches should've looked to develop his strengths and add shooting rather than trying ... this. His post-game isn't something that takes advantage of smaller players -- it's meant to go up against guys his size or a little bigger. If you have a smaller guy on you, you want to make moves toward the basket, like step-throughs or push-shots. If you're against bigger guys, you need fadeaways and jump-hooks to create space. Sochan's post-game is much more that second type. I do see him making some progress on doing more guard things like driving, even if the finishing isn't there. But right now, the team is seeing zero advantage to playing their starting lineup. His size isn't helping on offense, and Sochan's defense has never been all that great, even if it might be aesthetically pleasing sometimes.

I do find it funny how short some people's memories seem to be. The Spurs looked awful last year too. That's what it's like being a fan of a rebuilding team. We all just did this. I'm not saying to like it or to not want changes, but some folks are freaking out about it. There are what 75 more games in this year. If you're at your wits end now, well you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

[Raven]

i think he is showing a lot of improvement as a defender in terms of consistently being in front of his opponent and that stays true whether he's guarding pgs or sfs which i think is very valuable for such a shitty defensive team. Offense needs work but there's no reason why he shouldn't be a good offensive player, he has shown many basic skills sporadically, so the material is there.

[cd98]

Well I thought Sochan played great defense on Booker at the end of the game against the Suns. He has the tools, but he needs experience and he's getting it now. Every player on the roster, Wemby included, needs work. I don't get why people missed the preseason where the Spurs brass said over and over that this is a year of player evaluation and experimenting on how to best use Wemby. This roster will change radically over the next few years and the Spurs will know by next year how to best use Wemby and Sochan and the other guys on the roster.

If you want a great playmaker, he isn't on this roster. Spurs may get the guy they want in the future draft or in free agency. But for now, they are experimenting with Sochan at PG, but what they are really doing is experimenting on how to make the 5 best players work on the court. Sochan is one of the 5 best. They may change things up or make a trade during midseason. Word was the Spurs wanted Chris Paul and I'm sure Sochan would be coming off the benc if they had gotten Chris Paul, but they didn't.

[rascal]

People are in panic meltdown mode after a couple of losses.

If they win in New York it's going to be again a playoff team for some people.

It's going to be an up and down year but hopefully they lose enough to get an all star prospect in the draft.

[BacktoBasics]

Sochan is a good player. Even if he doesn’t become a long-term point guard, this stint will hone his skills as a secondary ballhandler and playmaker.

This really should be emphasized… especially on the premise that he’s assuredly not going to be a long term solution at PG. But you’re correct that it will hone some skills in other areas and give him a unique perspective on the game which I think he’ll be able to use as a means to exploit mismatches and other opportunistic moments.

We’re a .500 team or maybe worse to some. Now is a great time to take advantage of the opportunity.

It’s tough to watch but I’m not bent out of shape about it like some people are.

[cd98]

I think Sochan is a good player, but I also think the coaches should've looked to develop his strengths and add shooting rather than trying ... this. His post-game isn't something that takes advantage of smaller players -- it's meant to go up against guys his size or a little bigger. If you have a smaller guy on you, you want to make moves toward the basket, like step-throughs or push-shots. If you're against bigger guys, you need fadeaways and jump-hooks to create space. Sochan's post-game is much more that second type. I do see him making some progress on doing more guard things like driving, even if the finishing isn't there. But right now, the team is seeing zero advantage to playing their starting lineup. His size isn't helping on offense, and Sochan's defense has never been all that great, even if it might be aesthetically pleasing sometimes.

I do find it funny how short some people's memories seem to be. The Spurs looked awful last year too. That's what it's like being a fan of a rebuilding team. We all just did this. I'm not saying to like it or to not want changes, but some folks are freaking out about it. There are what 75 more games in this year. If you're at your wits end now, well you're going to be in for a rude awakening.

I don't disagree with any of this, but Sochan was recognized as a good defender out of college. Scouts recognized he was a 6-8 or 6-9 wing with a 7 foot wing span and a coordinated athlete that had great lateral speed and quickness. Scouts always pegged him as a raw basketball player with high upside, especially as a defender. So while he may not be all NBA defense today, let's see where he is a year from now. His jump shot is not pretty, but he's gotten better at it and he has some finishing ability. He misses one layup and half of Spurs talk says he can't make a layup. In my opinion, guy is a great prospect. I don't think you are advocating it, but plenty of others are acting like we need to sit him and never play him to develop Wemby when the truth is we need to play them together and see if they can eventually elevate this Spurs defense.

[BacktoBasics]

I don't disagree with any of this, but Sochan was recognized as a good defender out of college. Scouts recognized he was a 6-8 or 6-9 wing with a 7 foot wing span and a coordinated athlete that had great lateral speed and quickness. Scouts always pegged him as a raw basketball player with high upside, especially as a defender. So while he may not be all NBA defense today, let's see where he is a year from now. His jump shot is not pretty, but he's gotten better at it and he has some finishing ability. He misses one layup and half of Spurs talk says he can't make a layup. In my opinion, guy is a great prospect. I don't think you are advocating it, but plenty of others are acting like we need to sit him and never play him to develop Wemby when the truth is we need to play them together and see if they can eventually elevate this Spurs defense.
Being on a team that tanked for the 1st pick is also going to make you look less than stellar as a defender. Nothing about being a bottom 3 team is pleasing statistically. Individual numbers are going to suffer.

[spurraider21]

I think Sochan is a good player, but I also think the coaches should've looked to develop his strengths and add shooting rather than trying ... this. His post-game isn't something that takes advantage of smaller players -- it's meant to go up against guys his size or a little bigger. If you have a smaller guy on you, you want to make moves toward the basket, like step-throughs or push-shots. If you're against bigger guys, you need fadeaways and jump-hooks to create space. Sochan's post-game is much more that second type. I do see him making some progress on doing more guard things like driving, even if the finishing isn't there. But right now, the team is seeing zero advantage to playing their starting lineup. His size isn't helping on offense, and Sochan's defense has never been all that great, even if it might be aesthetically pleasing sometimes.

I do find it funny how short some people's memories seem to be. The Spurs looked awful last year too. That's what it's like being a fan of a rebuilding team. We all just did this. I'm not saying to like it or to not want changes, but some folks are freaking out about it. There are what 75 more games in this year. If you're at your wits end now, well you're going to be in for a rude awakening.
keep in mind theres a contingent here who think that the spurs were actually secretly good last year and pop basically instructed them to lose and play no defense, etc

as for sochan's defense, i think people are still clinging to draft analysis and scouting reports and assume that he has already translated into a very good nba defender, which he hasnt. to be frank, im still trying to figure out what archetype of player he's best suited to defend. he's not strong or long enough to really defend the post, and while he can survive on switches, dont really want him on very quick guards, so you're probably looking at the typical SG/SF types where he will have a length advantage. at the same time, i dont think he's a good enough shooter to assume that role on offense. luckily, this version of wemby defending the perimeter allows for some shenanigans with cross-matching

[timtonymanu]

OP is also a faggot.

You fat civilians that think you know what you’re talking about. :lol

[Chinook]

I don't disagree with any of this, but Sochan was recognized as a good defender out of college. Scouts recognized he was a 6-8 or 6-9 wing with a 7 foot wing span and a coordinated athlete that had great lateral speed and quickness. Scouts always pegged him as a raw basketball player with high upside, especially as a defender. So while he may not be all NBA defense today, let's see where he is a year from now. His jump shot is not pretty, but he's gotten better at it and he has some finishing ability. He misses one layup and half of Spurs talk says he can't make a layup. In my opinion, guy is a great prospect. I don't think you are advocating it, but plenty of others are acting like we need to sit him and never play him to develop Wemby when the truth is we need to play them together and see if they can eventually elevate this Spurs defense.

What college scouts think doesn't matter once a player enters the league. Scouts also thought Anderson was going to be a good offensive player but turnstile on D while Murray would struggle on that end. Sochan has to prove that he's a good defender, and he hasn't done it yet. I do think he has an NBA body, but none of his skills on either side of the ball are NBA level yet. I think he's a PF -- full stop. When the Spurs drafted a better PF prospect, Sochan should have come off the bench. Off the bench, he could've been the main facilitator, defensive ace or whatever. It's annoying how many player Pop named starters even before camp. He should've started with the vets and let the younger guys beat them or sit behind them rather than artificially creating situations where the young guys had a ton of responsibility. It seems like an overcorrection of the "mind games" DJM and Walker talked about.

[Chinook]

keep in mind theres a contingent here who think that the spurs were actually secretly good last year and pop basically instructed them to lose and play no defense, etc

as for sochan's defense, i think people are still clinging to draft analysis and scouting reports and assume that he has already translated into a very good nba defender, which he hasnt. to be frank, im still trying to figure out what archetype of player he's best suited to defend. he's not strong or long enough to really defend the post, and while he can survive on switches, dont really want him on very quick guards, so you're probably looking at the typical SG/SF types where he will have a length advantage. at the same time, i dont think he's a good enough shooter to assume that role on offense. luckily, this version of wemby defending the perimeter allows for some shenanigans with cross-matching

Sochan can just be a basketball player. There are and will likely always be that kind of guy in the league. I think he had a niche as a put-back and transition guy. If they would've just added a three-point shot to it, it'd've been gucci. Instead, they want to turn him into "more". I do think he's a PF, as I said in another post. Not a wing, certainly not a guard, and not a center. Just a PF.

[BackHome]

People are in panic meltdown mode after a couple of losses.

If they win in New York it's going to be again a playoff team for some people.

It's going to be an up and down year but hopefully they lose enough to get an all star prospect in the draft.

+1

[KobesAchilles]

Regardless of whether Sochan can fill the PG roll or not, he will come out of this a better ball handler, a better passer and overall a better player. Doesn't matter if he is comfortable being the PG. He will still be a better player with the improved skills he will gain. Then he can go back to a "big" position and help dominate. We should have a dedicated PG next year. Don't be in such a rush.
Will he though? Bc he will be moved to back up PF and have to still learn how to shoot. He will have to work on his defense for the position. He will have to learn a new offensive scheme. And he still won’t fit with our franchise player in Wemby. Tbh he would’ve been better if we just started Wemby at C and Sochan at PF. Then Sochan can learn how to play his actual role on the team with the franchise player. Dude should be learning from Oberto and not TP

[tbdog]

Sochan is 20 years old. Draymond was drafted at 22 years old. Jones is currently 23 years old. Sochan is still in the development stage. You don't give up on 1st round Rookie contact in year 2.

[cd98]

Sochan can just be a basketball player. There are and will likely always be that kind of guy in the league. I think he had a niche as a put-back and transition guy. If they would've just added a three-point shot to it, it'd've been gucci. Instead, they want to turn him into "more". I do think he's a PF, as I said in another post. Not a wing, certainly not a guard, and not a center. Just a PF.

Well, I don't think anyone is playing particularly good defense, which is what you alluded to earlier. I mean, Wemby blocks shots because he is tall and long, but it's not like you can just put him on any player and he shuts them down. I think the Spurs caught the Pacers on a hot shooting night, but I saw guys hit shots over Wemby. Once the Spurs learn to play good team defense, then Wemby's length and shot intimidation will be at its max powers. The Spurs rotations are so late and disjointed that a good shooting team like the Pacers with some good passing is going to get open shots.

But as to Sochan, he has the physical tools to be a good defender and he has only played a half a season last year and 7 games this year. Let's see what he develops into at the end of year two. In fact, we really need to give him three years because that's about the time you start to see guys in the Spurs development system really show if they are a player or not. But of all the guys on the roster, he has the height and the athletic ability to develop into a guy that can guard 4 positions and no one on the roster has the same physical tools.

I don't know if he is a point guard or not. I like Jones, but we don't have an elite PG and while the Spurs clearly wanted Chris Paul, they ultimately could not get him. My guess is that they will get a veteran point guard down the road this season but they are still evaluating the best roles for all the players. And I think the Sochan at point guard is a little off anyway. The Spurs have been talking about position-less basketball during this rebuild. In the starting line up, like 4 different players bring the ball down the court. I think the Spurs are seeing if they can make an offense work without a traditional point guard. So far the results have been mixed to poor, but maybe they see some stuff they like or maybe they'll pull the plug later this month and start Jones. I think they feel like Sochan is one of their 5 best and they want to find a way to get him on the court knowing that the 4 spot is owned by Wemby.

[offset formation]

Sochan was not a good pick for the Spurs. Maybe second round, but not a lottery pick. Duren has a much bigger upside, mainly because he can score and has an offensive game. I saw Sochan at Baylor and thought he was decent at best. I dont know what the Spurs saw. Anyhow, I like the young niggra :claw and I do hope he surprises me and turns it around. But, I kinda doubt it. :depressed

Whatever Sochan ends up giving us will be far more than the Flasher gave us. You want to rue a draft pick? I'm going to choose taking Primo over Sengun all day, everyday, and twice on Sundays. Imagine Sungun on the court with Wemby.

Conversely, Sochan is barely into his second season and being asked to play a position he's never played. Give the kid some time to grow into that role.

[Atl Spur]

Second round? Wow…..I’m dead!

[rogcl1]

Sochan was not a good pick for the Spurs. Maybe second round, but not a lottery pick. Duren has a much bigger upside, mainly because he can score and has an offensive game. I saw Sochan at Baylor and thought he was decent at best. I dont know what the Spurs saw. Anyhow, I like the young niggra :claw and I do hope he surprises me and turns it around. But, I kinda doubt it. :depressed

They saw a young kid that on defense could guard all five positions on switches and had some potential on the offensive skill set too. I would hate to coach or be teammates with many of you folks on here.

[rankingtear]

Sochan can just be a basketball player. There are and will likely always be that kind of guy in the league. I think he had a niche as a put-back and transition guy. If they would've just added a three-point shot to it, it'd've been gucci. Instead, they want to turn him into "more". I do think he's a PF, as I said in another post. Not a wing, certainly not a guard, and not a center. Just a PF.

Sounds like a video game where you can just pump up shooting stats. He was top 10 worst catch and shoot guy last year the shooting would take years to develop if it does.

[mystargtr34]

Wouldn’t mind seeing some lineups with Wemby at the 5 and Sochan at the 4.

[Seventyniner]

Sochan can just be a basketball player. There are and will likely always be that kind of guy in the league. I think he had a niche as a put-back and transition guy. If they would've just added a three-point shot to it, it'd've been gucci. Instead, they want to turn him into "more". I do think he's a PF, as I said in another post. Not a wing, certainly not a guard, and not a center. Just a PF.

Less "Diaw lite" and more "athletic Kyle Anderson"?

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Less "Diaw lite" and more "athletic Kyle Anderson"?
do you know non-spurs players?

[sfernald]

i think he is showing a lot of improvement as a defender in terms of consistently being in front of his opponent and that stays true whether he's guarding pgs or sfs which i think is very valuable for such a shitty defensive team. Offense needs work but there's no reason why he shouldn't be a good offensive player, he has shown many basic skills sporadically, so the material is there.

I love Sohan as a player. He's a dirty work gritty player and every team needs one of those. I love his demeanor and that he's unhappy. Seven games in and playing like he is, he should be unhappy. But that's the thing, these type of players just need time to figure it out. Like Draymond he will figure out the league and master it and eventually become a great player and teammate for Wemby. We all just have to be patient and watch carefully for the signs that he is coming around. I have no doubt he needs as many minutes as possible, but eventually he will figure it out. I get really frustrated and inpatient from time to time, but when I step back I realize this team is going in the right direction with him as a big part of it.

[Chinook]

Sounds like a video game where you can just pump up shooting stats. He was top 10 worst catch and shoot guy last year the shooting would take years to develop if it does.

It sounds like a worthwhile development path. I didn't say I'd expect Sochan to be a knock-down shooter at this point. The Spurs basically haven't had one of those in forever, especially a homegrown one. But what he used to do on offense, he doesn't really do anymore. That's a problem. He didn't have to have offense all figured out this year -- the team is not trying to win a title. It's disheartening that he isn't being coached on things that worked but needed development and is instead being coached on things he didn't really do.

[Chinook]

Well, I don't think anyone is playing particularly good defense, which is what you alluded to earlier. I mean, Wemby blocks shots because he is tall and long, but it's not like you can just put him on any player and he shuts them down. I think the Spurs caught the Pacers on a hot shooting night, but I saw guys hit shots over Wemby. Once the Spurs learn to play good team defense, then Wemby's length and shot intimidation will be at its max powers. The Spurs rotations are so late and disjointed that a good shooting team like the Pacers with some good passing is going to get open shots.

Oh, yeah, Wemby doesn't play good defense. I think he's been coached on fundamentals, but something about Pop coaching is making him slide more toward the other players. Again, it's a massive indictment of Pop that the team can't figure how to defend the three-point line.


But as to Sochan, he has the physical tools to be a good defender and he has only played a half a season last year and 7 games this year. Let's see what he develops into at the end of year two. In fact, we really need to give him three years because that's about the time you start to see guys in the Spurs development system really show if they are a player or not. But of all the guys on the roster, he has the height and the athletic ability to develop into a guy that can guard 4 positions and no one on the roster has the same physical tools.

The Spurs don't need a guy to put on everyone. Defense, like spacing, can't be outsourced. The Spurs during the Medium Three era had three guys who could defend at each level as well as defend together. Sochan isn't defending one position well -- let alone four. While I don't think he looks all that bad by the eye test, I'd reckon the Spurs are seeing so little success because they are defending "late". Meaning they're focusing on trying to block the guy's vision while doing nothing to stop him from getting to his spots or denying passes. I think the issues with passes are because the only legit centerfielder the Spurs have on the perimeter is Tre Jones. Wemby covers a ton of ground, but teams are basically mitigating him by just playing to the other side of the court and waiting for Victor to make a mistake. Having guys like Kawhi, Green, Anderson or Murray would really help. That's part of the reason why the Spurs might want to consider trading for OG if the price is right. You can see the effect adding Wemby has had. They need to double- or triple-down on that effect by getting good defenders rather than assuming guys who haven't figured out D in four or five years will see the light.


I don't know if he is a point guard or not. I like Jones, but we don't have an elite PG and while the Spurs clearly wanted Chris Paul, they ultimately could not get him. My guess is that they will get a veteran point guard down the road this season but they are still evaluating the best roles for all the players. And I think the Sochan at point guard is a little off anyway. The Spurs have been talking about position-less basketball during this rebuild. In the starting line up, like 4 different players bring the ball down the court. I think the Spurs are seeing if they can make an offense work without a traditional point guard. So far the results have been mixed to poor, but maybe they see some stuff they like or maybe they'll pull the plug later this month and start Jones. I think they feel like Sochan is one of their 5 best and they want to find a way to get him on the court knowing that the 4 spot is owned by Wemby.

The Spurs have been trying this offense without success for years now. Sochan starting at PG is just more obvious, but there's a through-line from that to Primo playing PG, to the "hydra offense" with DMDR at PF to White/Murray as a starting duo to Parker and Ford getting minutes together to Pop wanting a Kidd/Parker starting backcourt. If Pop wants to run an offense that way, he needs to get guys who are good at that rather than trying to develop guys to be good at it. Can Sochan "be the PG" if he's playing PF? Maybe. If he's supported by three or four other players who have floor games similar or better than him, he'd probably be able to do his part even now. But Pop wants a PG, which is why he keeps using that term. He wants Sochan to do PG things and play that role -- he needs someone to do that to develop the team. So I don't buy the positionless argument particularly about Sochan. I think Pop wants multiple PGs rather than no PGs.

[Chinook]

Less "Diaw lite" and more "athletic Kyle Anderson"?

I keep thinking of Reggie Evans for some reason. Or Marcus Smart. Or MWP. Or Lance Stephenson. Just ... a guy who's in the league. I don't see him as Anderson or Diaw.

[paperboy77]

His ceiling is probably Draymond Green.

Triple Single with good defensive skills and some passing skills.


Don't we wish that would be the case?

[TD 21]

I love Sohan as a player. He's a dirty work gritty player and every team needs one of those. I love his demeanor and that he's unhappy. Seven games in and playing like he is, he should be unhappy. But that's the thing, these type of players just need time to figure it out. Like Draymond he will figure out the league and master it and eventually become a great player and teammate for Wemby. We all just have to be patient and watch carefully for the signs that he is coming around. I have no doubt he needs as many minutes as possible, but eventually he will figure it out. I get really frustrated and inpatient from time to time, but when I step back I realize this team is going in the right direction with him as a big part of it.

"He's a dirty work gritty player" and "this team is going in the right direction with him as a big part of it", based on what? All you were missing was "he has to start because he's our third best player". Does he actually ever have to prove any of these things to be anointed?


Oh, yeah, Wemby doesn't play good defense. I think he's been coached on fundamentals, but something about Pop coaching is making him slide more toward the other players. Again, it's a massive indictment of Pop that the team can't figure how to defend the three-point line.

Analytics claim 3-point defense is mostly luck in a large sample size, but it's a long term issue here. My theory is their aversion to prioritizing wingspan has played a significant part.

[exstatic]

Analytics claim 3-point defense is mostly luck in a large sample size, but it's a long term issue here. My theory is their aversion to prioritizing wingspan has played a significant part.

Cissko 6’6” 6’10”
Barlow 6’9” 7’3”
Sochan 6’9” 7’1”
Branham 6’4” 6’10”
Wesley 6’3” 6’9”
Vassell 6’6” 6’10”

Anything over +4 is considered “long”. I’d say they done nothing BUT prioritizing wingspan.

[Obstructed_View]

keep in mind theres a contingent here who think that the spurs were actually secretly good last year and pop basically instructed them to lose and play no defense, etc


Lol nobody said they were "secretly good". They tanked by not playing defense. The fact that defense has been mentioned more in seven games than the entirety of last season is evidence of that. They've certainly not figured out how to defend the perimeter. Frankly, they'd be better giving up layups than threes at 50%.

In fact, their defense isn't always terrible. Many times they get a stop but fail to secure a rebound and then give up a three. This year's team is harder to watch than last year's.

[TD 21]

Cissko 6’6” 6’10”
Barlow 6’9” 7’3”
Sochan 6’9” 7’1”
Branham 6’4” 6’10”
Wesley 6’3” 6’9”
Vassell 6’6” 6’10”

Anything over +4 is considered “long”. I’d say they done nothing BUT prioritizing wingspan.

Sochan is 6'8'' barefoot with a 6'11'' wingspan.

Some of them have decent length relative to height, but are subpar relative to position and they're below average athletically.

Barlow is the only exception to either rule, but he's a project/non rotation player.

[exstatic]

Sochan is 6'8'' barefoot with a 6'11'' wingspan.

Some of them have decent length relative to height, but are subpar relative to position and they're below average athletically.

Barlow is the only exception to either rule, but he's a project/non rotation player.

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

[TD 21]

Now you're just moving the goalposts.

Nah, I'm adding injury to insult.