Let’s Talk About Defense

[couchman]

The Spurs currently have the 2nd worst defensive rating in the league and last year we had an historically terrible defense.

We just added a major defensive difference maker in Wemby and we still don’t look much better on that side of the ball. Last night giving up 150 against the Pacers has to be an all time low point for Pop.

I’d like to hear some intelligent analysis of why that’s happening.
Is is scheme? If so please explain why.
Is it the players? If so please describe in specifics.
Is it both?

Here are some stats:

The Spurs are 4th from the bottom in defensive rebounding, 6th worst in second chance points allowed, and 17th overall defensive rb %.
We are 12th in steals and 8th in blocks.
We are 18th in points given up off turnovers.
We are 23rd in points in the paint.
I haven’t found the stats but heard in the broadcast last night that we’re giving up a league worst 38% shooting on 3s!!!

[dbestpro]

Fundamentals and lack of effort towards help defense.

[JeffDuncan]

On the 3pt shooting defense, one thing is that the Spurs players are too ready to abandon their man to try to help elsewhere. A quick pass gives a wide open shooter. They’re also too ready to drop back to the middle. Again, it leaves shooters open. Basically, they don’t trust each other on defense.

[rjv]

The Spurs currently have the 2nd worst defensive rating in the league and last year we had an historically terrible defense.

We just added a major defensive difference maker in Wemby and we still don’t look much better on that side of the ball. Last night giving up 150 against the Pacers has to be an all time low point for Pop.

I’d like to hear some intelligent analysis of why that’s happening.
Is is scheme? If so please explain why.
Is it the players? If so please describe in specifics.
Is it both?

Here are some stats:

The Spurs are 4th from the bottom in defensive rebounding, 6th worst in second chance points allowed, and 17th overall defensive rb %.
We are 12th in steals and 8th in blocks.
We are 18th in points given up off turnovers.
We are 23rd in points in the paint.
I haven’t found the stats but heard in the broadcast last night that we’re giving up a league worst 38% shooting on 3s!!!

the numbers with Wemby on the court are considerably better. They are far worse when he is off the court. So basically, this is the same historically bad defensive unit when Wemby is out. Devin was basically out for most of last season as well but I don't know what the numbers are like when he is on the court. Although, he is usually on the floor at the same time as Wemby.

Maliki can't fight through screens and hesitates in deciding whether or not to go over or under a screen. Tre is better on help defense than one on one. McDermott is just slow as molasses. Zach is not a a very good rebounder. Keldon has been historically average as a defender. Bassey is decent but a bit undersized in many matchups.

[rjv]

On the 3pt shooting defense, one thing is that the Spurs players are too ready to abandon their man to try to help elsewhere. A quick pass gives a wide open shooter. They’re also too ready to drop back to the middle. Again, it leaves shooters open. Basically, they don’t trust each other on defense.


The historically great defensive teams we had were great at communicating on switches and picks. I don't see any of that on this team, which may explain the way too many open looks that teams are getting from the three point line. Everyone is late in their rotations.

[MultiTroll]

Seen more then once after Keldon scores and is doing an oooga booga flex his man hits a trey at the other end due to his slacker defense.

Including a key trey that Toronto made.

[spurraider21]

too quick to leave man to help where not needed, and then people arent covering for one another on time.

player A leaves his man in the corner to double. player B tries to cover player A's man when he receives the pass in the corner. but nobody immediately rotates to cover player B's guy until after that pass is made, meaning they're always late.

theres no communication, guys arent being attentive. or you'll sometimes see two defenders close out the same shooter

its just really sloppy all around, so its gotta be on the coaching imo

the pacers are the exact opposite. they... under-help, and they give up a ton of points at the rim. myles turner can block shots here and there, but he's always on an island and they give up pointsi n the paint. but they dont give up 3's

[paperboy77]

On the 3pt shooting defense, one thing is that the Spurs players are too ready to abandon their man to try to help elsewhere. A quick pass gives a wide open shooter. They’re also too ready to drop back to the middle. Again, it leaves shooters open. Basically, they don’t trust each other on defense.

Or they are not too smart of a defender. I hear your point but to me it seems like no one wants to deal with a tough situation and they'd rather pass the hot potato than make it their mission to play tough, grueling D. They always say defense is all about hustle and really hard work.

[couchman]

too quick to leave man to help where not needed, and then people arent covering for one another on time.

player A leaves his man in the corner to double. player B tries to cover player A's man when he receives the pass in the corner. but nobody immediately rotates to cover player B's guy until after that pass is made, meaning they're always late.

theres no communication, guys arent being attentive. or you'll sometimes see two defenders close out the same shooter

its just really sloppy all around, so its gotta be on the coaching imo

the pacers are the exact opposite. they... under-help, and they give up a ton of points at the rim. myles turner can block shots here and there, but he's always on an island and they give up pointsi n the paint. but they don't give up 3's

This to me hits on the main issue. We help too much, and not very intelligently, so that we perhaps prevent a few easy buckets inside but trade that for a wide open 3 pretty regularly. I'd rather give up a bunch of inside stuff and see if people can score over Wemby than give up a ton of open 3s like we're doing now.
Like, just switch everything and go over the top of screens regularly and see if we can survive inside.

The bad rotations are also part of why we've struggled to rebound. Helpers often end up out of position to grab boards and leave wide open offensive rebounders.

The question about whether it is coaching or the players or both remains.
As some point it is coaching, but perhaps Pop is telling them the right things and the players are not getting it done because of inexperience of Basketball IQ issues.

[spurraider21]

the most annoying is when helping from the strong side, one very easy pass away to a wide open 3 point shooter. force them to make a longer skip pass, which allows for more recovery time. thats high school level coaching. dont help one pass away from the strong side. but we do it ALL the time

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

The Spurs currently have the 2nd worst defensive rating in the league and last year we had an historically terrible defense.



So you're saying we're improving. I like it.

[couchman]

the most annoying is when helping from the strong side, one very easy pass away to a wide open 3 point shooter. force them to make a longer skip pass, which allows for more recovery time. thats high school level coaching. dont help one pass away from the strong side. but we do it ALL the time

We do it SO MUCH and it drives me crazy.
Never help off of a 3 point shooter from one pass away. NEVER.
You're better off giving up the 2 point attempt than giving up the easy 3.
This one feels like a coaching issue.

[Mugen]

Lack of talent/consistent effort on that end + poor coaching

[itzsoweezee]

Terrible interior defense is leading to problems everywhere else. I’ve said it before, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more ineffectual defensive big man than Zach Collins. He provides next to nothing on that end. Other players have to help out and the result is open shots (if a help defender comes) or easy points in the paint (of help doesn’t come). I’m already ready for the Collins era as a starter to be over.

[LeBowen]

8/10 rotation players are subpar to awful defenders, with Devin being the only solid one alongside Wemby.

Keldon is a liability and will never improve enough to be a decent defender.
Zach is horrible, no other way around it. He's bad in the post because he lacks size compared to actual post-playing Cs, but he's also slow footed.
Jeremy is a good defender, but he's still a wing meaning he's too slow for elite guards.
Tre is undersized and gets torched because of it.
Branham is completely useless.
Same goes for Doug.
Haven't seen enough of Cedi yet, seems like he tries and knows what to do, but is just too slow.
Bassey has the potential, but is inexperienced and gets outplayed.
Devin is solid.
Wemby is obviously Wemby.

I'm not going to lie, it's kind of really frustrating how Spurs keep finding these role-players with fundamental flaws that are way too difficult to overcome and hold the entire team down.

Hopefully this will be the only season for experiments and as soon as the next summer they start making some serious moves.
Devin is the only one who has unquestionably proven that he can be a part of a contending roster, some others have potential, but noone is a must keep.

We've got potentially the greatest defender in the history of the game, he just needs fundamentally sound teammates who aren't liabilities on defense and behind the arc on the other end.
Legit all-star point guard, Devin, 2x 3-D wings and Wemby with a couple of seasons under his belt would be enough to contend.
Spurs have a dozen picks and all the cap space in the world. No more pet projects and players with "unique skillsets" (read: charity cases).

[Chomag]

Maybe at this point Pop is a good teacher but he isn't a good coach.

[NASpurs]

I was laughing at the other day how many people kept going at Collins and meeting little resistance. The guy makes Bonner look like prime Mutombo.

Also maybe I'm being too simplistic but whatever happened to staying with your man at the 3 point line and funneling them towards the middle at your big man (put Wemby in the middle). It's not like he's going to be punished in today's NBA unless he's playing against Embiid or Jokic.

[RC_Drunkford]

-we don't box out and thus give up a ton of offensive rebounds

-for whatever reason Zach Collins plays drop coverage

-Collins can not defend the rim, players can get to the rim and score over him at will

-Tre Jones, McDermott and Keldon can contest all they want, their man still hits a 3 in their face

-Branham is a turnstile in the pick & roll

-we give up a ton of open corner 3s which is exactly the shot you want to eliminate

-Sochan can't guard small guards

-we get killed in pick & rolls and have to overhelp leading to wide open 3s

- our offense is trash leading to our defense not being set on a lot of posessions

I said in preseason that I was concerned about 3-point and pick & roll defense. It looks even worse now. Also teams are not getting hot, our defense is just trash. Players are constantly having career shooting nights against us (Barnes, OG) and teams break their franchise records against us (Pacers).

With that being said we've seen some good sequences on defense against the Suns and Raptors, so I think there's still room to play better D, although my confidence in that is diminshing every game. In the first half against Toronto we played some of the best transition defense that I've seen in years. They couldn't get any fast break buckets. I think this team really needs to find a more intelligent way of collapsing on drivers, we're very good when it comes to getting deflections with active hands and running the fast break. This team is missing a rim protector and point of attack defender.

One of the things to improve pick & roll D and rim protection is Wemby playing Center, but the Spurs obviously don't want him to play there.

[Extra Stout]

People wanted to make the excuse that last year’s team was terrible at defense because they were tanking. Well, maybe some of that is true, but even if it is, bad habits learned aren’t going to be fixed in 7 games. Also, some of these players conceivably are just bad at defense and don’t really have a long-term future on the Spurs. That may actually describe the majority of the roster tbh.

[LeBowen]

One thing I forgot to mention is that Wemby is already way stronger than any of us expected.
Letting him have freedom with another big on the floor is a nice gimmick, but we've already seen he's game-breaking at C.

Unless we're up against MVP level big who would just body Wemby, there's no reason to not play him at C.
Most bigs aren't skilled enough to exploit him in the post and he torches them on the other side. Just look at the numbers when he's the only big.

Even if we're up against Jokic or Embiid, Zach and Bassey certainly aren't stopping them, might aswell go all in with Wemby as C.

Not having Zach out there against other team's starters is already a huge boost, even if it's Doug taking his place.

[The Truth #6]

I can understand this season not wanting to make huge changes until we see how the players play together, but I don't understand after they drafted a generational talent, they didn't immediately upgrade the coaching staff, and get at least one new highly qualified proven assistant coach.

[spurraider21]

this guy reads his spurstalk

1721988992386687345

[sammy]

Terrible interior defense is leading to problems everywhere else. I’ve said it before, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more ineffectual defensive big man than Zach Collins. He provides next to nothing on that end. Other players have to help out and the result is open shots (if a help defender comes) or easy points in the paint (of help doesn’t come). I’m already ready for the Collins era as a starter to be over.

I agree! We need a strong defensive minded center who can rebound and defend the paint!

[sammy]

8/10 rotation players are subpar to awful defenders, with Devin being the only solid one alongside Wemby.

Keldon is a liability and will never improve enough to be a decent defender.
Zach is horrible, no other way around it. He's bad in the post because he lacks size compared to actual post-playing Cs, but he's also slow footed.
Jeremy is a good defender, but he's still a wing meaning he's too slow for elite guards.
Tre is undersized and gets torched because of it.
Branham is completely useless.
Same goes for Doug.
Haven't seen enough of Cedi yet, seems like he tries and knows what to do, but is just too slow.
Bassey has the potential, but is inexperienced and gets outplayed.
Devin is solid.
Wemby is obviously Wemby.

I'm not going to lie, it's kind of really frustrating how Spurs keep finding these role-players with fundamental flaws that are way too difficult to overcome and hold the entire team down.

Hopefully this will be the only season for experiments and as soon as the next summer they start making some serious moves.
Devin is the only one who has unquestionably proven that he can be a part of a contending roster, some others have potential, but noone is a must keep.

We've got potentially the greatest defender in the history of the game, he just needs fundamentally sound teammates who aren't liabilities on defense and behind the arc on the other end.
Legit all-star point guard, Devin, 2x 3-D wings and Wemby with a couple of seasons under his belt would be enough to contend.
Spurs have a dozen picks and all the cap space in the world. No more pet projects and players with "unique skillsets" (read: charity cases).

Well said! :bobo

[cd98]

Wemby isn't enough to change this team in 7 games. Good team defense takes time. There are guys that have the ability to become good defenders, but it takes time and learning to play together. The starting line up as constituted is a weird line up with everyone being over 6'5. At times they make it hard to score on them, but they don't play good defense on the three point line and they haven't played enough to be a good team defense. I mean, those Tim Duncan teams had below average defenders, but they were a great defensive team because they all knew where to be, they didn't foul, and they rebounded. They also played together for years. Again, defense isn't going to change over night.

[BackHome]

I can understand this season not wanting to make huge changes until we see how the players play together, but I don't understand after they drafted a generational talent, they didn't immediately upgrade the coaching staff, and get at least one new highly qualified proven assistant coach.

I think Pop is taking another loosing season for the team as we really need another high draft pick to get more talent as it's not so easy to acquire a stud player through free agency. Since Pop knows he is leaving soon most good assistants don't want to be in a situation where it's a one year deal as most new coaches bring in there own people. That to me is the biggest question is who is going to replace Pop, because it's damn sure not anyone currently on this coaching staff.

[objective]

Not only is Collins getting destroyed at the rim, he's also a shit rebounder.

The whole point of playing 'big' with 2 7-footers should be rim protection and rebounding and the supposed bonus of 3 point shooting from Collins. Well the Spurs don't rebound, protect the rim without Wemby and Collins bricks crap 4/5 games.

Collins TRB% this year is 12.3%. Those are pretty bad considering that Wemby is floating around the perimeter and leaking out a lot. His block% is only 2.6%

People knock Wemby for his rebounding but he's delivering TRB of 16.9%, best among any big minute players.

Historically Collins is a new low in rebounding among Spurs centers, and that's considering Duncan as a center when he was the real center.

Poeltl rebounded better as a spur. Collins was better the other years. Aldridge better, Pau was better. Eubanks was better. Gay rebounded every year better except his final year. Splitter rebounded better. Hell, JOFFREY rebounded better than Collins.

If Collins would throw his body around and pick up some fouls and make players earn it at the line instead of easy layups and dunks that would help. Get his mind on grinding for rebounds instead of inventing new ways to turn the ball over.

[BackHome]

I think that is why they only signed him to a two year contract

[Vince Carter's ankle]

-we don't box out and thus give up a ton of offensive rebounds

-for whatever reason Zach Collins plays drop coverage

-Collins can not defend the rim, players can get to the rim and score over him at will

-Tre Jones, McDermott and Keldon can contest all they want, their man still hits a 3 in their face

-Branham is a turnstile in the pick & roll

-we give up a ton of open corner 3s which is exactly the shot you want to eliminate

-Sochan can't guard small guards

-we get killed in pick & rolls and have to overhelp leading to wide open 3s

- our offense is trash leading to our defense not being set on a lot of posessions

I said in preseason that I was concerned about 3-point and pick & roll defense. It looks even worse now. Also teams are not getting hot, our defense is just trash. Players are constantly having career shooting nights against us (Barnes, OG) and teams break their franchise records against us (Pacers).

With that being said we've seen some good sequences on defense against the Suns and Raptors, so I think there's still room to play better D, although my confidence in that is diminshing every game. In the first half against Toronto we played some of the best transition defense that I've seen in years. They couldn't get any fast break buckets. I think this team really needs to find a more intelligent way of collapsing on drivers, we're very good when it comes to getting deflections with active hands and running the fast break. This team is missing a rim protector and point of attack defender.

One of the things to improve pick & roll D and rim protection is Wemby playing Center, but the Spurs obviously don't want him to play there.
you should go to an ophthalmologist

[RC_Drunkford]

you should go to an ophthalmologist

you should go get a job. I speak 4 different languages, what about you? :lol

[Vince Carter's ankle]

you should go get a job. I speak 4 different languages, what about you? :lol
how does this relate to your vision problems?
i speak russian, georgian, french, italian and english
what's next?

[Chomag]

Serious question to those defending Pop's coaching performance and saying that it's not the coaches fault. So when can you start putting the blame on the coaching staff, I'm honestly very curious?

[Big Empty]

Collins is useless i dont know what the coaching staff saw in the offseason that made them extend Collins. He gets manhandled even by regular average centers. We need a Center that can rebound and play defense, and we need a point guard that can stretch the floor to open things up for Wemby. I know im beating a dead horse but Jones should start at point and Collins or Sochan should come off the bench.

[RC_Drunkford]

how does this relate to your vision problems?
i speak russian, georgian, french, italian and english
what's next?
vaffanculo

[rjv]

Collins is useless i dont know what the coaching staff saw in the offseason that made them extend Collins. He gets manhandled even by regular average centers. We need a Center that can rebound and play defense, and we need a point guard that can stretch the floor to open things up for Wemby. I know im beating a dead horse but Jones should start at point and Collins or Sochan should come off the bench.

who would collins come off the bench for? it's not as if the spurs have a lot of options at center.

[NASpurs]

Collins is useless i dont know what the coaching staff saw in the offseason that made them extend Collins. He gets manhandled even by regular average centers. We need a Center that can rebound and play defense, and we need a point guard that can stretch the floor to open things up for Wemby. I know im beating a dead horse but Jones should start at point and Collins or Sochan should come off the bench.

White guy who plays C who stretches the floor :lol

[poopbox]

Where to even start.

1. Dumb lineups, rotations, and player position. We play 3 of our 4 bigs in the starting lineup. Our 4th big, Bassey, is probably a 3rd stringer anywhere else, if that. When one of our bigs comes out, we replace them with either McDermott or Osman, guys who should be playing the 3 are now playing the 4 with an undersized maybe not even a rotational nba player playing the 5. We are getting killed in those bassey + mcdermott or osman at the 4 minutes.

2. Bad defenders in general. Keldon is awful and always has been. Mcdermott, same. Collins...same. Branham is a turnstile. Sochan is a good defender but not good enough to cover when he is on the floor with bad defenders. Devin is a good defender but not good enough to cover when he is on the floor with bad defenders. Victor can cover for damn near the whole team but soon as he goes to the bench whatever points they didn't get with him on the floor they get with him off it. Keldon, Mcdermott, and Collins are the primary people sinking the defense and they all have the same deficiencies on that end. Low IQ when it comes to defense, slow to non existent lateral movement , inability to challenge any shot cause they are not athletic and can't jump very high, terrible rebounders which causes offensive rebounds and the defense to be scrambled way to often.

3. And probably the most important, Pop doesn't have a clue how to coach nba defense it todays nba. Like, can anyone tell what the actual plan is that the players are supposed to execute on defense? I can't. Every time a player goes to the rim 3 guys follow him. Whenever a team runs a pick and roll two guys go with the roller or two guys stay with the ballhandler. We dont deny ANYTHING. Screens, pindowns, backdoor cuts, we do not make any attempt to take away ANY offense playcall or offensive tendency of the other team. Like when Kawhi was here and we played the wolves, he would be around the left block alot, cause that is where Kat really wanted the ball. By putting Kawhi in that area alot it just flat out deterred kat from even trying to post up around there since he was so scared Kawhi would come rip the ball from him, and that took a large chunk of the wolves offense away. We don't do anything like that right now, and I think we don't because Pop just generally has no clue how to coach defense now. This team hasn't had a good defensive season since Kawhi left and it gets worse every year. I don't think we will ever be an even average defensive team going forward as long as Pop is the coach as he seems to not have a clue about defense, or have a clue about rotations either. Playing 3 of your 4 bigs in one lineup is beyond dumb and should be a fireable offense when your 4th big might not even be a real nba rotational player.

This is the price you pay when you let your 70 year old coach with 5 rings continue to hang around and coach games like he doesn't give a shit about winning...because he doesn't give a shit about winning.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

vaffanculo
ne tremble pas, chérie

[The Truth #6]

I still come back to what the theme is for this year: is it actually improve our defense, is it that the young guys gel together, or is it let Victor do whatever he wants?

Obviously nobody wants Victor to get his feelings hurt, but I would prefer to focus on defense and if the younger players can't keep up, or if the s***** older defenders can't adapt, then so be it. But play our better defenders. At least as an experiment. It would be frustrating as well in different ways, but if they were actually to make defense of priority, I could at least understand it. I'm also curious if Sidy will get a chance to play. I know he's so limited offensively it would be ugly, but if he could at least be part of a team that helps stop these 40-point hemorrhages, honestly, I would see that as an improvement.

[rjv]

I still come back to what the theme is for this year: is it actually improve our defense, is it that the young guys gel together, or is it let Victor do whatever he wants?

Obviously nobody wants Victor to get his feelings hurt, but I would prefer to focus on defense and if the younger players can't keep up, or if the s***** older defenders can't adapt, then so be it. But play our better defenders. At least as an experiment. It would be frustrating as well in different ways, but if they were actually to make defense of priority, I could at least understand it. I'm also curious if Sidy will get a chance to play. I know he's so limited offensively it would be ugly, but if he could at least be part of a team that helps stop these 40-point hemorrhages, honestly, I would see that as an improvement.

sidy should see his first action with the Austin affiliate starting tomorrow night.

[The Truth #6]

Sure, the obvious retort is that our best defenders are still crappy at defense, but whatever, just spitballing... and I would like to see Pop emphasize it. (Responding to my own post)

[RC_Drunkford]

No Messina, no Udoka = no defense

[SouthernFryd]

Defense, Blocking out, entry passes, handling pressure defense, shot selection, Guarding the 3 point line.

None of this has to do with talent. Any NBA level player can do all these...and do them well. It's not about talent.

These things the coaching staff are responsible for implementing. And if the team is not doing these things...the fault lies there. And if players are not willing to do these things, it's up to the coaching staff to rectify it.

The Spurs are being coached terribly right now...or not being coached at all. Which, may be a strategy in and of itself. To possible get another good draft pick? To let young players learn the NBA game on the job? Something else?

Either way, it's basically a screw you move to the fans. With the long-term goal of being loved again if it works? IF there even is a long term goal/strategy in all of this. Spurs fans...hell, any NBA fans, can be fickle that way. I'm guilty of that myself.

Except when it comes to Pop.

Hell, It could just as easily be they just don't really care. There are wars all over the world POP needs to pay attention to and comment on.

[spurraider21]

1723026091680366816

[spurraider21]

every time an opposing ball-handler is in the paint, we act like we are playing against prime wilt chamberlain in a league without a 3 point shot. here are some stills just from the clips from that tweet


did keldon really have to leave randle here? are wemby and collins not enough to deter a brunson shot?
https://i.gyazo.com/26e9f26965cad975cf2068ac4333f50e.jpg


apparently donte needs 5 guys to stop him.
https://i.gyazo.com/306fea16185df33575993e772c1f776b.jpg


why are all 5 collapsing on a guy behind the rim? what are keldon and branham accomplishing here?
https://i.gyazo.com/8bbfe1d07daff6485a31c5adfa99381d.jpg

on a play like this where he gets beat and a rotation happens, Tre has to be sprinting to get to the open shooters, and vassell needs to be positioning himself between the two shooters so he can respond to whichever one catches the ball and force an extra pass, theoretically buying time for somebody else (preferably tre) to rotate to the second player. instead, vassell half heartedly collapses into the paint?
https://i.gyazo.com/adb0feec196fc53bd8fbb373a5e7b4ee.jpg

its not Tre's fault they overhelped here, but if he sees that, he has to position himself in between the two shooters, not just stay glued to one and give the other one a wide open catch and shoot
https://i.gyazo.com/d4153c78eb981c42b49da66bfaba78b2.jpg

just lol. so much overhelping (the eventual shooter is off-screen here, near the top of the arc)
https://i.gyazo.com/0a052ca438eb7782c7bda040fb003dd9.jpg

[spurraider21]

what is sochan doing in this one? sags off porter for absolutely no reason. is he that worried about an entry pass to poeltl?

https://i.gyazo.com/47c4bce98aac1a4ea0c6a8312ca9df1a.jpg

[TDomination]

man that video and screen shots are cringe worthy.
awful, just awful defense.

pitiful really

[spurraider21]

that doesnt include plays we've seen with much simpler breakdowns. ie even when there isnt glaring overhelping, the guy who ends up helping is coming from the strong side, leaving a shooter wide open just one pass away with no real possibility at any rotation/recovery

[NASpurs]

Playing 90s defense in 2023 :lol

[R. DeMurre]

Keldon cheating off of his guy at the 3 pt line to help Wemby in the paint is basketball comedy. Completely absurd.

[Spursfanfromafar]

A look at these videos suggest two things - complete lack of court awareness on defense for some and slow footedness and poor reaction time for others. The first is understandable for a very young and inexperienced squad. Pop and his assistants have their job cut out. But the second part is worrisome. No coach is going to improve McDermott ever. But it is perplexing for any coach to deal with the often miscuing Keldon Johnson and a Malaki Branham. It was easier for the Spurs to carry poor defenders like Belinelli, Roger Mason, Gary Neal, Finley etc as they had the personnel to compensate for them. But in a team full of inexperience and /or incompetence..it's a very difficult ask for a rookie all-time defender to make up for the heavy weakness.

[scott]

I think it all comes down to one simple fact: our players aren’t very good defenders. We vastly overrate Devin and Sochan’s defensive prowess. They may be some of the better defenders on the team, but they still aren’t that great.

Wemby is having a huge impact on D simply by virtue of his freak size and instincts. It doesn’t appear he really even knows how to play defense on this level yet, which is crazy to think about how good of a defender he will eventually become if he’s already a league leader in OPP FG% and Blocks now.

[spurraider21]

i do find it funny that making a 3 over victor is the 2023 version of dunking on yao

[ambchang]

Or there is simply no trust amongst teammates on the defensive end.

[offset formation]

I think it all comes down to one simple fact: our players aren’t very good defenders. We vastly overrate Devin and Sochan’s defensive prowess. They may be some of the better defenders on the team, but they still aren’t that great.

Wemby is having a huge impact on D simply by virtue of his freak size and instincts. It doesn’t appear he really even knows how to play defense on this level yet, which is crazy to think about how good of a defender he will eventually become if he’s already a league leader in OPP FG% and Blocks now.

We suck. Hard. Defensive rating without Wemby on the court remains at near recod setting levels of ineptitude. After we set the record last year. It's fucking pathetic. I expected the biggest turnaround this year to be defensively. And I was dead wrong. Were an abomination STILL. And that comes back to coaching OR drafting.

Even Udoka has Sengun playing some D this year after everyone talked about how bad he was. Might be time for a roster overhaul and I'm not kidding. At some point, your defensive rating is who you are. Going on 2 years of historic suckage should tell us what we need to know. Johnson. Vassell. Collins. All need to step it up ASAP.

At some point you simply cannot win by outscoring everyone and at some point, your defensive prowess cannot be 1 man. And at some point, you can't rely on scoring to grace over Wemby's bench minutes, too.

[offset formation]

Or there is simply no trust amongst teammates on the defensive end.

Coaching concern? Drafting concern?

At some point, your defensive effort is what it appears to be. And we're hovering around all-time league worst for a second year in a row.

[TimmyBuckets]

Keldon is crap on D and Sochan is mid to crap on rotations and D overall. Zach can’t guard a big to save his life. Vassell and Wemby are the only starters worth a dime on D. It’s a lack of discipline and learning the nba thing but it’s a talent thing more than anything.

[scott]

Tidbit from the latest ESPN power rankings (where the Spurs rank 27th)

The Spurs have shown signs of growth in the past month. Since Tre Jones (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395626/tre-jones) entered the starting lineup Jan. 4, San Antonio is 5-6 when both Jones and Victor Wembanyama (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/5104157/victor-wembanyama) play. The new starting lineup of Jones, Wembanyama, Devin Vassell (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395630/devin-vassell), Julian Champagnie (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4592479/julian-champagnie) and Jeremy Sochan (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4610139/jeremy-sochan) has a plus-12.7 net rating in 129 minutes -- sixth in the West among all five-man groups to play at least 100 minutes this season. On top of that, the team's defensive rating of 116.8 is 14th in the league since Jones began starting. -- Lopez

[Dejounte]

Tidbit from the latest ESPN power rankings (where the Spurs rank 27th)

The Spurs have shown signs of growth in the past month. Since Tre Jones (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395626/tre-jones) entered the starting lineup Jan. 4, San Antonio is 5-6 when both Jones and Victor Wembanyama (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/5104157/victor-wembanyama) play. The new starting lineup of Jones, Wembanyama, Devin Vassell (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395630/devin-vassell), Julian Champagnie (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4592479/julian-champagnie) and Jeremy Sochan (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4610139/jeremy-sochan) has a plus-12.7 net rating in 129 minutes -- sixth in the West among all five-man groups to play at least 100 minutes this season. On top of that, the team's defensive rating of 116.8 is 14th in the league since Jones began starting. -- Lopez
In The Last 11 Games, Collins And Branham Have Played Less. They’re Giving Too Much Credit To Tre.

[scott]

I didn't read it so much as giving the credit to Tre for defensive improvement, but rather just a time market. Spurs playing above median defense is a sight for sore eyes.

[RC_Drunkford]

the D could even improve more by having another shotblocker at C

[couchman]

Tre has been an above average defender in the league before this season, despite everyone saying how he was too small or whatever.
Obviously he could be hunted by the right teams, but in general he is not the defensive liability many have said he is.
Moving Tre to the SL has helped us at PF because Sochan is a better defender than Collins.
Tre in the SL also opened up more time at backup PG that Wesley has taken over, and he may be our best POA defender.
Then Collins gets hurt and Barlow comes in as a competent big who can switch on PnR and not get immediately cooked by smaller players.
Suddenly I've seen signs of us defending people sometimes!! It's about time

[poopbox]

In The Last 11 Games, Collins And Branham Have Played Less. They’re Giving Too Much Credit To Tre.

Exactly this. Defense got better primarily cause we stopped playing our two worst defenders.

[BackHome]

I just hope Pop does not start drafting Forbe clones just because we have our defensive unicorn in Wemby