What should the Abortion Limit be?

[Millennial_Messiah]

My personal opinion is 21 Weeks from conception. With the only one exception being if the pregnant woman's life is in severe jeopardy by continuing the pregnancy, which must be confirmed by multiple medical staff with supporting imagery and documentation.

This number is based on the fact that the Guinness Book of World Records' record-youngest premature fetus to survive as a living baby (i.e., viability outside the womb) is 21 weeks and 3 days from conception.

The doctor and medical staff should have to sign a one-page affidavit confirming this (the abortion is done before 21 weeks from conception and/or the pregnant woman's life is in severe jeopardy, with documented evidence) and if it's perjured they're liable for both perjury and homicide.

Before 21 Weeks from conception, I believe abortion should be safe/rare/legal and have no prerequisites or excuses required (rape, medical, religious/spiritual, convenience, financial, age, etc are all fine to me for early term abortions... I don't believe an excuse or exception should be required).

The doctor and medical staff must still file affidavits for every abortion confirming exact or best-extrapolated estimated date of conception and date of abortion.

What is ST's opinion?

[Will Hunting]

15 - 25 weeks outside of circumstances with health concerns for the mother

Also aborting fetuses with Down syndrome should be encouraged (yes, I’m pro eugenics)

[Robz4000]

Beginning of the third trimester imo.

[spurraider21]

15 - 25 weeks outside of circumstances with health concerns for the mother

Also aborting fetuses with Down syndrome should be encouraged (yes, I’m pro eugenics)
everyone is pro-eugenics, its the degree that matters

people decide who their mate will be based on all kinds of characteristics, which determines what kind of kid they'll have. people typically dont inbreed. theres the social stigma, legality, but also the likelihood of developmental disorders, etc.

also not really sure thats really a eugenics position when it comes to down syndrome. males with down syndrome are almost always infertile anyway, and im not sure but the % of women with down syndrome who end up having kids is also probably quite low. saying you should abort fetuses with down syndrome isnt really a measure taken to eradicate down syndrome from the population, rather its one that will make life a lot easier for the would-be parents and allowing them to recoup and refocus their parenting efforts on a child more likely to themself have a fulfilling, happy life

obviously when people say "eugenics" they usually refer to more extreme measures. even then, "encouraging" aborting down syndrome fetuses isnt really extreme. rather, something damn near requiring it, or making it a legal requirement for people with down syndrome to be castrated... that would be the extreme "eugenics" position.

[spurraider21]

any position i take on abortion limits would be contingent on the guarantee of basic necessities being provided. periodic prenatal appointments, ultrasounds, genetic testing, etc.

something like 5-10% of pregnant woment dont get basic prenatal care. and then stuff like genetic testing is done less than 50% of the time.

get me assurances of availability and education on birth control, and guarantee of adequate prenatal care, then i'll talk limits

[boutons_deux]

no restriction on abortion

it remains an issue strictly between the doctor and the female, zero govt intervention

[Thread]

"It is the worst kind of poverty that a child must die so that you can live as you wish."

[benefactor]

"It is the worst kind of poverty that a child must die so that you can live as you wish."
I don't typically respond to you, but I will in this instance. Give us a real, educated opinion Dale.

[Thread]

I don't typically respond to you, but I will in this instance. Give us a real, educated opinion Dale.

I just gave it to you from Sister Teresa.

[ElNono]

Whatever Roe was, which was already a compromise... don't fix what wasn't broken...

[baseline bum]

"It is the worst kind of poverty that a child must die so that you can live as you wish."

So no more sending 18 year olds to die for oil?

[Thread]

So no more sending 18 year olds to die for oil?

Never had to till we let the Shah fall. Next time? Don't let a Shah fall.

[Thread]

Whatever Roe was, which was already a compromise... don't fix what wasn't broken...

...Trump did that.

[benefactor]

I just gave it to you from Sister Teresa.
Nothing about that opinion is educated.

lol dumb boomer Dale

[Thread]

Nothing about that opinion is educated.

lol dumb boomer Dale

Don't start up again, bene. We just kinda buried the proverbial hatchet. I don't want it dug up again and you be chasing me around with the damn thing. Savvy?

[baseline bum]

Never had to till we let the Shah fall. Next time? Don't let a Shah fall.

Maybe next time don't have the CIA install a scumbag like the shah

[benefactor]

Dale folds

[Thread]

Maybe next time don't have the CIA install a scumbag like the shah

He did us right.

[Thread]

Dale folds

See, you always have to get the feud going again. I come to you with an olive branch and you beat me with it.

Did you see the short story I'm writing about you & the missus over in The Club? It's a genuine love story.

[baseline bum]

He did us right.

His installation is why the nation is run by an Islamic nut trying to start WW3 in Israel. We really fucked ourselves all in the name of fellating BP when Persia wanted to nationalize their oil industry.

[ElNono]

There’s no call yet in Ohio, but the Edison Research exit poll conducted for the TV news networks strongly suggest the state constitutional amendment to establish a right to an abortion will pass.

The numbers will change through the night, but the most interesting divides are along age (82 percent of voters under 30 voted yes, but only 46 percent of seniors did), marital status (married voters split evenly, but 68 percent of unmarried voters voted yes) and party ID (Democrats voted for it 92-8, Republicans 19-81 and independents 64-36).

[Spurminator]

The only limit I support is limiting who gets to decide, and it's not a bunch of boomer men in government positions.

[Millennial_Messiah]

15 - 25 weeks outside of circumstances with health concerns for the mother

Also aborting fetuses with Down syndrome should be encouraged (yes, I’m pro eugenics)

That's the moderate opinion, and I agree with it.



no restriction on abortion

it remains an issue strictly between the doctor and the female, zero govt intervention

That's the extremist left-wing opinion. Do you really support a woman who's 39 or 40 weeks pregnant, belly the size of a watermelon, who just all of sudden decides she wants to have an abortion and end the baby's life because she's can't afford the baby? Don't you believe that the doctor should be legally obligated to save the baby, maybe give him/her up for adoption in the event they must terminate the pregnancy, rather than killing the baby?

[pgardn]

The only limit I support is limiting who gets to decide, and it's not a bunch of boomer men in government positions.

Also must have adopted at a minimum of two unwanted infants.

Talk the talk, walk the walk. Sacrifice.
The parents I personally know who have 3 adopted kids from China are pro choice.
Go figure... And the kids are doing quite well in a big happy family.

[Th'Pusher]

everyone is pro-eugenics, its the degree that matters

people decide who their mate will be based on all kinds of characteristics, which determines what kind of kid they'll have. people typically dont inbreed. theres the social stigma, legality, but also the likelihood of developmental disorders, etc.

also not really sure thats really a eugenics position when it comes to down syndrome. males with down syndrome are almost always infertile anyway, and im not sure but the % of women with down syndrome who end up having kids is also probably quite low. saying you should abort fetuses with down syndrome isnt really a measure taken to eradicate down syndrome from the population, rather its one that will make life a lot easier for the would-be parents and allowing them to recoup and refocus their parenting efforts on a child more likely to themself have a fulfilling, happy life

obviously when people say "eugenics" they usually refer to more extreme measures. even then, "encouraging" aborting down syndrome fetuses isnt really extreme. rather, something damn near requiring it, or making it a legal requirement for people with down syndrome to be castrated... that would be the extreme "eugenics" position.

Don’t dull Will’s edge man. Hatin’ coloreds and tards is kinda his thing.

[Thread]

His installation is why the nation is run by an Islamic nut trying to start WW3 in Israel. We really fucked ourselves all in the name of fellating BP when Persia wanted to nationalize their oil industry.

That's conjecture, bum.

.15 cents a gallon is fact.

[Ef-man]

I see GOP candidates in 2024 running away from the abortion issue, bigly.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I see GOP candidates in 2024 running away from the abortion issue, bigly.

If 2022 wasn't the final nail in the proverbial coffin, then this has to be

Worst case, advocate a 20 week or so limit with exceptions, but it's clearly a winning issue for Dems that female voters care about far more than the more practical issues.

honestly, not simply taking the "L" on codification of Roe into the constitution in the spring of 2022 has been the worst decision arguably in GOP electoral history, at least since the FDR era.

[Thread]

If 2022 wasn't the final nail in the proverbial coffin, then this has to be

Worst case, advocate a 20 week or so limit with exceptions, but it's clearly a winning issue for Dems that female voters care about far more than the more practical issues.

honestly, not simply taking the "L" on codification of Roe into the constitution in the spring of 2022 has been the worst decision arguably in GOP electoral history, at least since the FDR era.

...anytime you station yourself in saving lives you've done good.

[We're] being trimmed down persistently by women who have had an abortion, their souls in checkmate, who brazen it out for life now because they've no other alternative...hoping He'll forgive upon arrival, or, better, no, best yet===that He does not exist. It's understandable, it's human and it is unstoppable.

[Millennial_Messiah]

...anytime you station yourself in saving lives you've done good.

[We're] being trimmed down persistently by women who have had an abortion, their souls in checkmate, who brazen it out for life now because they've no other alternative...hoping He'll forgive upon arrival, or, better, no, best yet===that He does not exist. It's understandable, it's human and it is unstoppable.
Have you ever considered the possibility that "He" might not be real?

Serious question.

Logically, if "he" was real, wouldn't the evangelical right praying the Democrats away have worked by now?

[Thread]

Have you ever considered the possibility that "He" might not be real?

Serious question.

Logically, if "he" was real, wouldn't the evangelical right praying the Democrats away have worked by now?

Sure, we all have doubts, Andrew, but I will carry on till the end and then I shall know.

[spurraider21]

Don’t dull Will’s edge man. Hatin’ coloreds and tards is kinda his thing.
:cry hey conservatives, I’m not one of the crazy green hair libs, I’m one of the good ones :cry

[ElNono]

If 2022 wasn't the final nail in the proverbial coffin, then this has to be

Worst case, advocate a 20 week or so limit with exceptions, but it's clearly a winning issue for Dems that female voters care about far more than the more practical issues.

honestly, not simply taking the "L" on codification of Roe into the constitution in the spring of 2022 has been the worst decision arguably in GOP electoral history, at least since the FDR era.

It's just wrong to look at this strictly from the SCOTUS decision. That decision, as wrong as it was from a legal standpoint, opened the floodgates for a socially ass backward minority to start pushing for shit like banned mifepristone by mail.

Then you have the Fifth circuit, which has been traditionally wrong on almost everything, trying to push more federal level bans, and this is exactly why this issue isn't going away.

They couldn't just be happy that shithole southern states could outright ban abortion, they need to do the cult stuff of ruining it for everyone else too.

[Thread]

:cry hey conservatives, I’m not one of the crazy green hair libs, I’m one of the good ones :cry

You're a horse's patoot and you always have been, 21.

[Thread]

It's just wrong to look at this strictly from the SCOTUS decision. That decision, as wrong as it was from a legal standpoint, opened the floodgates for a socially ass backward minority to start pushing for shit like banned mifepristone by mail.

Then you have the Fifth circuit, which has been traditionally wrong on almost everything, trying to push more federal level bans, and this is exactly why this issue isn't going away.

They couldn't just be happy that shithole southern states could outright ban abortion, they need to do the cult stuff of ruining it for everyone else too.

Murdering an unborn baby is wrong, ElPERIOD

[Winehole23]

Are whimsical late term abortions really a thing?

I'm not sure there should be any federal restrictions, but I'd settle for the status quo ante.

[Will Hunting]

:cry hey conservatives, I’m not one of the crazy green hair libs, I’m one of the good ones :cry
:lol if you think my shtick is about pandering to cons. Cons are even more minority whipped than libs are, every time they see a black Republican capable of formulating 2-3 sentences they soyjack over how amazing he is.

[Will Hunting]

Someone I know on Twitter even made a fake profile called “Daniel N!gger” and pretended to be a Trump-endorsed Republican congressional candidate for Nevada. The account got over 2,000+ followers and most of them were MAGA boomers who thought it was a real person because they love “muh based black republicans!” so much :lmao

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-endorse-daniel-n-word/

[CosmicCowboy]

I think Ohio's 21 week limit is reasonable. It will always be state by state though.

[Thread]

Are whimsical late term abortions really a thing?

I'm not sure there should be any federal restrictions, but I'd settle for the status quo ante.

Like the women who've had abortions, Winester, you've nary other choice now.

[Will Hunting]

Are whimsical late term abortions really a thing?

I'm not sure there should be any federal restrictions, but I'd settle for the status quo ante.
Of course they’re not. Women aren’t electively aborting 35 week old fetuses they’ve already bought a crib for and picked out a name for, and Republicans only hurt themselves more with women voters when they try to push the premise that women are doing this by constantly trying to shove the late term abortion boogeyman down everyone’s throat.

[Thread]

Of course they’re not. Women aren’t electively aborting 35 week old fetuses they’ve already bought a crib for and picked out a name for, and Republicans only hurt themselves more with women voters when they try to push the premise that women are doing this by constantly trying to shove the late term abortion boogeyman down everyone’s throat.

Early, late, six of one, half dozen of the other. These women are murdering babies, Will.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course they’re not. Women aren’t electively aborting 35 week old fetuses they’ve already bought a crib for and picked out a name for, and Republicans only hurt themselves more with women voters when they try to push the premise that women are doing this by constantly trying to shove the late term abortion boogeyman down everyone’s throat.

In that case, why can't democrats agree on a reasonable time limit on abortions? there are extremists on both sides...Some Republicans want zero abortions period, some democrats want zero restrictions on abortion. Thats why the Senate will never get 60 Senators to agree on anything to do with abortion and it will always be state by state after this.

[Thread]

In that case, why can't democrats agree on a reasonable time limit on abortions? there are extremists on both sides...Some Republicans want zero abortions period, some democrats want zero restrictions on abortion. Thats why the Senate will never get 60 Senators to agree on anything to do with abortion and it will always be state by state after this.


Early, late, six of one, half dozen of the other. These women are murdering babies, CC.

[Will Hunting]

In that case, why can't democrats agree on a reasonable time limit on abortions? there are extremists on both sides...Some Republicans want zero abortions period, some democrats want zero restrictions on abortion. Thats why the Senate will never get 60 Senators to agree on anything to do with abortion and it will always be state by state after this.
Because Republicans in states like Missouri have proven that if they can restrict post viability abortions they’re going to do it even in instances when the woman’s life is in danger (the laws on the books in Missouri and Texas basically make doctors wait until the mother is on the verge of death before they can abort)..

I’d be totally fine with a federal, Western European style solution that restricts late term abortions but has exceptions for the life of the mother as long as it doesn’t give states any discretion to go further with draconian laws that put the mother’s life in jeopardy.

Abortions should also be publicly funded (it’s a sound investment that pays for itself since paying for the abortion is cheaper than paying for the welfare baby).

[Will Hunting]

:lol also you can try as hard as you want to both sides this issue by claiming no abortion restrictions is equally as extreme as forcing a 13 year old rape victim to carry her rapist’s baby to term, but we both know it’s a ridiculous false equivalence and your side is just going to keep losing elections as long as it parrots the bullshit “Democrats are the real abortion extremists!” narrative.

No one other than habitual Fox News viewers buys it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Because Republicans in states like Missouri have proven that if they can restrict post viability abortions they’re going to do it even in instances when the woman’s life is in danger (the laws on the books in Missouri and Texas basically make doctors wait until the mother is on the verge of death before they can abort)..

I’d be totally fine with a federal, Western European style solution that restricts late term abortions but has exceptions for the life of the mother as long as it doesn’t give states any discretion to go further with draconian laws that put the mother’s life in jeopardy.

Abortions should also be publicly funded (it’s a sound investment that pays for itself since paying for the abortion is cheaper than paying for the welfare baby).

I'm OK with that.

BTW, I looked it up. There are over 620,000 abortions in the US every year. 93% are in the first trimester (13 weeks) 6% occur between 13 and 20 weeks, and 1% after 21 weeks. That 1% is more than 6200 late term abortions. Considering viability is generally accepted at 24 weeks, then it is not out of the question that some viable babies are being aborted.

[Thread]

I'm OK with that.

BTW, I looked it up. There are over 620,000 abortions in the US every year. 93% are in the first trimester (13 weeks) 6% occur between 13 and 20 weeks, and 1% after 21 weeks. That 1% is more than 6200 late term abortions. Considering viability is generally accepted at 24 weeks, then it is not out of the question that some viable babies are being aborted.


Early, late, six of one, half dozen of the other. These women are murdering babies, CC.

[Will Hunting]

I'm OK with that.

BTW, I looked it up. There are over 620,000 abortions in the US every year. 93% are in the first trimester (13 weeks) 6% occur between 13 and 20 weeks, and 1% after 21 weeks. That 1% is more than 6200 late term abortions. Considering viability is generally accepted at 24 weeks, then it is not out of the question that some viable babies are being aborted.
How many of those 6,200 abortions are elective and how many are because of health issues arising from the pregnancy? All the data I’ve seen shows that abortions after 20 weeks are primarily because of a health issue with the mother or because the fetus has a health issue that makes it unable to survive outside the womb.

[Will Hunting]

:lol using the statistic that only 1% of all abortions happening after 20 weeks to somehow claim elective late term abortions are a real epidemic we need to address and not just a right wing boogeyman used to justify draconian abortion laws

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol using the statistic that only 1% of all abortions happening after 20 weeks to somehow claim elective late term abortions are a real epidemic we need to address and not just a right wing boogeyman used to justify draconian abortion laws

I said nothing about it being an epidemic but it probably happens. I gave the numbers. I already said I agree with a reasonable limit with exceptions for the mothers life. Who are you arguing with?

[Will Hunting]

I didn't say that. I gave the numbers. I already said I agree with a reasonable limit with exceptions for the mothers life. Who are you arguing with?
So we agree that late term abortions aren’t a real issue and they’re just a right wing boogeyman then. Great!

[CosmicCowboy]

So we agree that late term abortions aren’t a real issue and they’re just a right wing boogeyman then. Great!

I said nothing about it being an epidemic but it probably happens. Personally I think killing even one viable baby as an elective procedure is wrong.

[spurraider21]

I said nothing about it being an epidemic but it probably happens. Personally I think killing even one viable baby as an elective procedure is wrong.
What if they learn after viability it’s got Down syndrome

[Thread]

I said nothing about it being an epidemic but it probably happens. Personally I think killing even one viable baby as an elective procedure is wrong.

CC

That's a start, CC. And as you get closer to the end of your life, CC, you'll expand that "think," loudly, and very Personally so that no mistake, or, misstep is made and so that He hears you THEN.

[Thread]

What if they learn after viability it’s got Down syndrome

Don't murder the child, 21. You know that without being told. Stop running and face it!

[Winehole23]

What if they learn after viability it’s got Down syndromeIn my childhood the Einstein/Manson fork was often proffered, arguing backward from the result. That point of view seems roughly as arbitrary and implausible to me now (age 56) as it did then (~1975).

People do the best they can for their own families, afaik educational services for people with Down's syndrome were somewhat available in Texas 15 years ago, I have no idea what it's like now.

[Thread]

In my childhood the Einstein/Manson fork was often proffered, arguing backward from the result. That point of view seems roughly as arbitrary and implausible to me now (age 56) as it did then (~1975).

People do the best they can for their own families, afaik educational services for people with Down's syndrome were somewhat available in Texas 15 years ago, I have no idea what it's like now.

...I'll just bet you don't.

[Winehole23]

Texas doesn't have the greatest track record of public accessibility overall, let alone with its special education function.

I would assume nonprofits are stepping in, they probably were then.

[Thread]

Texas doesn't have the greatest track record of public accessibility overall, let alone with its special education function.

I would assume nonprofits are stepping in, they probably were then.

Still trying to flip Texas I see, Winester.

Chop/chop, son.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol also you can try as hard as you want to both sides this issue by claiming no abortion restrictions is equally as extreme as forcing a 13 year old rape victim to carry her rapist’s baby to term, but we both know it’s a ridiculous false equivalence and your side is just going to keep losing elections as long as it parrots the bullshit “Democrats are the real abortion extremists!” narrative.

No one other than habitual Fox News viewers buys it.

they're both extremist and both potentially homicidal since those teen pregnant rape victims who are forced to carry to term almost always end up depressed and either go full thug or end up killing themselves.

Anything but a common sense moderate solution is wrong and extremist.


What if they learn after viability it’s got Down syndrome

Ask the resident scientist Will Hunting on this , but generally experienced prenatal doctors can tell trisomy conditions well back into the first trimester.

[Thread]

they're both extremist and both potentially homicidal since those teen pregnant rape victims who are forced to carry to term almost always end up depressed and either go full thug or end up killing themselves.

Anything but a common sense moderate solution is wrong and extremist.



Ask the resident scientist Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032) on this , but generally experienced prenatal doctors can tell trisomy conditions well back into the first trimester.

21 hid his till Trump tromped Hillary.

[Spurminator]

In that case, why can't democrats agree on a reasonable time limit on abortions? there are extremists on both sides...Some Republicans want zero abortions period, some democrats want zero restrictions on abortion. Thats why the Senate will never get 60 Senators to agree on anything to do with abortion and it will always be state by state after this.

What is extreme about zero restrictions on abortion? Any restriction is ultimately the state stepping in to override the recommendation of a doctor and someone carrying their baby inside of them. Complications can happen even at 30+ weeks that make a birth nonviable, or even dangerous to the mother. Do you really think the doctor and mother should have to get approval from Ken Paxton's people on whether or not it's okay to terminate the pregnancy or risk criminal punishment? How is that humane?

[Millennial_Messiah]

What is extreme about zero restrictions on abortion? Any restriction is ultimately the state stepping in to override the recommendation of a doctor and someone carrying their baby inside of them. Complications can happen even at 30+ weeks that make a birth nonviable, or even dangerous to the mother. Do you really think the doctor and mother should have to get approval from Ken Paxton's people on whether or not it's okay to terminate the pregnancy or risk criminal punishment? How is that humane?

No, but they should have to sign a legal affidavit with date of abortion, best medically estimated date of conception, and proof and specific details regarding the pregnant woman's medical condition and the fetus's condition of non-viability that required termination of the pregnancy -and- termination of the life of the post-21 week fetus, if applicable. If the fetus's life ended in the womb, this fact and the specific medical condition that caused this must be documented and detailed in the affidavit. All facts must be included and the document must be signed by a doctor under penalty of perjury and potential loss of license to practice medicine if they are found guilty of lying.

I'm not pro-more paperwork, big government, or large amounts of red tape, but this is a human life we're talking about, and it is a fair compromise with reasonable conservatives like CosmicCowboy (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=207) (not the "life begins at conception" evangelicals; they're hopeless).

[Spurminator]

they should have to sign a legal affidavit with date of abortion, best medically estimated date of conception, and proof and specific details regarding the pregnant woman's medical condition and the fetus's condition of non-viability that required termination of the pregnancy -and- termination of the life of the post-21 week fetus, if applicable. If the fetus's life ended in the womb, this fact and the specific medical condition that caused this must be documented and detailed in the affidavit. All facts must be included and the document must be signed by a doctor under penalty of perjury and potential loss of license to practice medicine if they are found guilty of lying.

I'm not pro-more paperwork, big government, or large amounts of red tape

LOL

[Spurminator]

More paperwork, big government and red tape bad except in case of very distressing and time-sensitive health decisions.*

*Applies only to women.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

More paperwork, big government and red tape bad except in case of when viable human life is on the line, the person in subject is a non-US citizen, or a convicted violent felon.


FIFY.

I'm as pro-choice of a conservative as you're going to get without being an independent/third party voter.

I believe in 21 weeks and limited states' rights, however the 10th amendment applying to abortion but not gay marriage is pretty silly.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

Still trying to flip Texas I see, Winester.

Chop/chop, son.

will never happen, state party is too competent and cheats for the GOP as a last resort, like the Dems in NY/CA/IL. it is what it is.

[Will Hunting]

What if they learn after viability it’s got Down syndrome
Abort.

The disabilities will end!

[ElNono]

I think Ohio's 21 week limit is reasonable. It will always be state by state though.

It shouldn't be though. That's exactly what Roe/Casey was, a compromise between what states want vs what women and her doctor decide is best. Now only what the states want matters, which is not a compromise by any means.

Also, the limit is heavily dependent on various conditions. If a fetus dies inside the mother after 21 weeks, is 21 weeks a reasonable limit? It's more complicated than that.

The biggest problem is that those that want to place the limits and rules are both largely men and in 99% of the cases driven by religious bullshit.

[CosmicCowboy]

It shouldn't be though. That's exactly what Roe/Casey was, a compromise between what states want vs what women and her doctor decide is best. Now only what the states want matters, which is not a compromise by any means.

Also, the limit is heavily dependent on various conditions. If a fetus dies inside the mother after 21 weeks, is 21 weeks a reasonable limit? It's more complicated than that.

The biggest problem is that those that want to place the limits and rules are both largely men and in 99% of the cases driven by religious bullshit.

You are talking about the exceptions. I'm fine with those.

[spurraider21]

the whole premise of looking at abortions as a supply issue and not a demand issue is why we dont get anywhere

its not a matter of why its legal at what point. the more poignant question is why do people need abortions at those stages.

people have to get early term abortions often because they failed to use contraception, used it incorrectly, or in a fringe minority of cases, they used it properly and it simply failed. its more important to figure out why we have such a high demand for abortions and how we can address that, rather than asking how we can legally limit people's ability to get them. do we have adequate sex ed? is contraception encouraged enough? should health insurance automatically provide for contraception?

and then same for later term abortions. why does anybody ever need abortions in those later months? is it because they didnt have basic levels of prenatal care? didnt detect the pregnancy until later because they have shit for sex ed? didnt get basic genetic screening done because of the cost, and only detected an issue later? then we should address those to make it so people dont get into that position nearly as often

[baseline bum]

I said nothing about it being an epidemic but it probably happens. I gave the numbers. I already said I agree with a reasonable limit with exceptions for the mothers life. Who are you arguing with?

Only having exceptions for the mother's life is how we get laws like Texas has now where a woman has to be on the knife edge of death to get a medically necessary abortion since doctors here are scared shitless by the Texas GOP.

[Thread]

will never happen, state party is too competent and cheats for the GOP as a last resort, like the Dems in NY/CA/IL. it is what it is.

UNT

[ElNono]

You are talking about the exceptions. I'm fine with those.

It's just one example. We have religious zealots not only banning the procedure at any time, but also without exceptions. That's not a compromise.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's just one example. We have religious zealots not only banning the procedure at any time, but also without exceptions. That's not a compromise.

That's a fringe opinion and could never be enacted into law. Sadly, Texas got damn close.

[Spurminator]

the whole premise of looking at abortions as a supply issue and not a demand issue is why we dont get anywhere

its not a matter of why its legal at what point. the more poignant question is why do people need abortions at those stages.

people have to get early term abortions often because they failed to use contraception, used it incorrectly, or in a fringe minority of cases, they used it properly and it simply failed. its more important to figure out why we have such a high demand for abortions and how we can address that, rather than asking how we can legally limit people's ability to get them. do we have adequate sex ed? is contraception encouraged enough? should health insurance automatically provide for contraception?

and then same for later term abortions. why does anybody ever need abortions in those later months? is it because they didnt have basic levels of prenatal care? didnt detect the pregnancy until later because they have shit for sex ed? didnt get basic genetic screening done because of the cost, and only detected an issue later? then we should address those to make it so people dont get into that position nearly as often

I've said it before but conservatives don't want to address the pregnancy issue because they see things like free condoms / contraception as encouraging casual sex, and they fundamentally don't want people having sex unless they're married.

Some of that is religious, some of that is just plain incel jealousy.

[Spurminator]

Only having exceptions for the mother's life is how we get laws like Texas has now where a woman has to be on the knife edge of death to get a medically necessary abolition since doctors here are scared shitless by the Texas GOP.

Exactly. It's still supposedly "small government" conservatives wanting to enact a bunch of government red tape on medical decisions that require quick solutions.

[baseline bum]

That's a fringe opinion and could never be enacted into law. Sadly, Texas got damn close.

It's in practice right now in Texas through intimidation by the Texas GOP even if it's not the exact letter of the law where they carved out that tiniest of exceptions.

[Will Hunting]

That's a fringe opinion and could never be enacted into law. Sadly, Texas got damn close.
“Could never get enacted into law”

”the Texas politicians I voted for enacted it into law”

In literally the same post

Truly remarkable cognitive dissonance.

[clambake]

“Could never get enacted into law”

”the Texas politicians I voted for enacted it into law”

In literally the same post

Truly remarkable cognitive dissonance.

He thinks he is truly trying to scrape off his current political party leadership.

He really thinks we should, at least give him a cookie.


Another example of things that don’t work.

[Will Hunting]

Oh wow look at that, pro-lifers no longer believe that abortion should be “left up to the states”

Some Bible thumper group is trying to challenge Michigan’s abortion referendum by seeking courts to establish fetal personhood
https://rtl.org/rlm-legal-challenge-prop3/

This is why abortion is going to remain a prominent issue for a long time. Republicans can’t simply take the L and move on.

[Will Hunting]

Only having exceptions for the mother's life is how we get laws like Texas has now where a woman has to be on the knife edge of death to get a medically necessary abortion since doctors here are scared shitless by the Texas GOP.
:lol CC is just willfully refusing to address this

[ElNono]

That's a fringe opinion and could never be enacted into law. Sadly, Texas got damn close.

So it can be. Under the current framework of "states decide" there's literally no limit.

[CosmicCowboy]

“Could never get enacted into law”

”the Texas politicians I voted for enacted it into law”

In literally the same post

Truly remarkable cognitive dissonance.

Fuck off.

I vote in western Guadalupe County and voted for the Democrat Senator.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol CC is just willfully refusing to address this

Again, fuck off. I totally disagree with Texas's abortion laws.

[Will Hunting]

Fuck off.

I vote in western Guadalupe County and voted for the Democrat Senator.
What about the state house? The governor? The state Supreme Court justices who interpret the law?

[z0sa]

I'm not religious but I can respect someone who is. That said, this country is supposed to be secular and equal under the law. If you're religious, don't have an abortion. Pretty simple. Someone else's religion shouldn't be involved here at all, obviously. If anyone's going to Hell, it's the person doing the abortions and/or using it as BC or whatever your particular doctrine is.

Okay here's the real facts though: if my daughter needed an abortion, I'd want someone to be able to do it safely and without worrying about the government sending her or her doctors to jail. Why are conservatives big government on abortion? Morally wrong doesn't = illegal. Making a profit is morally wrong, distilled down. In fact, Jesus said to give away your money. It's a bit of a disconnect tbh.