2023-2024 NBA trade deadline

[Big Empty]

We all know that the Spurs have a ton of draft picks coming up the next 3 years. Obviously we have a full roster that needs alot of tweaking still to surround Wemby. The Spurs are using this year to see how our current players measure up. The Spurs are most likely going to be very aggressive in trades to make sure we keep Wemby happy. I cant see us drafting 3 first round picks this year, so who is out there that the Spurs might be eying to trade for?

[SpurSpike]

The Bulls are about to blow it up. They have some decent players like Zach, Alex and dare I say... DeRozan?

[Ice009]

Hmm DeMar DeRozan would be interesting as he wouldn't be the number 1 option and he can pass the ball (shows how desperate I am for a PG for this team). Just not sure about the spacing, though, as I'm not sure if he's shot more from three point range these past couple of years with Chicago. I assume he still sucks from three point range. He also doesn't fit in age wise, and I also assume his defense is still abysmal (something we don't really need with how poor this team is already on defense). Darn. Spurs really need some decent players as it's got me thinking about getting DeMar back :(.

[vander]

trade everything for Luka

[tbdog]

Just things off the top of my head as starting points.

Johnson for Ingram
Johnson for fultz or suggs
Wesley and Graham for T Jones brother.
Jazz has options THT, Kessler
Nets have plenty of good wings and need to lower their bill. Cam Johnson for example
Watch the cavs if things are not going well. Garland for Johnson and picks?

[RC_Drunkford]

Jakob Poeltl
Nic Claxton
Jarrett Allen

[R. DeMurre]

Two guys I like are Delon Wright and Alec Burks. Both are free agents after this season, and both have had late career surges as far as impact-- Wright is one of the most underrated defenders in the league, and Burks has shot over 40% from 3 in his last four seasons... but it would probably be wiser to pursue them as low cost FAs rather than trading any assets for them. Last night, the Knicks constantly attacked whatever side of the court Wembanyama wasn't on-- for me, that has to be the first issue to address for a team that was historically bad on D last season, and is barely any better so far this year.

[TD 21]

Two guys I like are Delon Wright and Alec Burks. Both are free agents after this season, and both have had late career surges as far as impact-- Wright is one of the most underrated defenders in the league, and Burks has shot over 40% from 3 in his last four seasons... but it would probably be wiser to pursue them as low cost FAs rather than trading any assets for them. Last night, the Knicks constantly attacked whatever side of the court Wembanyama wasn't on-- for me, that has to be the first issue to address for a team that was historically bad on D last season, and is barely any better so far this year.

I was just about to post this. :toast

[BacktoBasics]

Just things off the top of my head as starting points.

Johnson for Ingram
Johnson for fultz or suggs
Wesley and Graham for T Jones brother.
Jazz has options THT, Kessler
Nets have plenty of good wings and need to lower their bill. Cam Johnson for example
Watch the cavs if things are not going well. Garland for Johnson and picks?

Ingram is an upgrade for sure but often injured and I don't see how they would view a Keldon trade as a smart move.
I'm not high on Suggs. Fultz is a possibility. He would be a nice fit here.
THT isn't worth trading for unless they're just gonna hand him over. They're not gonna move Kessler. He's been great for them.
Cam Johnson is making 24 million. He's not bad but I don't know about eating that much cap for a guy only getting you 12-15 ppg. He disappears a lot.
They just upped Garland. At his age I believe they view him as a long term part of the team. Mitchell will probably become available if they continue to struggle but word is Mitchell is gonna be Knick.


Jakob Poeltl
Nic Claxton
Jarrett Allen

Allen would be a better Collins. At least I think he would. We still haven't seen the best of Collins but I don't see Allen getting any better than what he is.
I like Claxton too.

[Bruno]

I don't see at all Spurs FO making a big move at this trade deadline. Their plan was to be bad this year to get a high draft pick. I don't see why they would change that.

[rjv]

I don't see at all Spurs FO making a big move at this trade deadline. Their plan was to be bad this year to get a high draft pick. I don't see why they would change that.

yeah, i don't see why there is such urgency to start trading away assets this season.

[spurraider21]

I don't see at all Spurs FO making a big move at this trade deadline. Their plan was to be bad this year to get a high draft pick. I don't see why they would change that.
if anything i could see them trying to sell mcdermott as an expiring shooter

[exstatic]

if anything i could see them trying to sell mcdermott as an expiring shooter

Any of McDermott, Graham, and Cedi could be moved.

[Obstructed_View]

Derozan. Jesus fucking Christ.

[JeffDuncan]

Allen would be a better Collins. At least I think he would. We still haven't seen the best of Collins but I don't see Allen getting any better than what he is.
I like Claxton too.


Jarrett Allen isn’t a free agent until 2026. Is he supposed to be available?

Claxton started 76 games last season, played 30 minutes a game, and shot free throws at .541. If you liked watching Poeltl at the line you’ll love Claxton. Not bad otherwise tho. Doesn’t shoot 3s.

[rjv]

Jarrett Allen isn’t a free agent until 2026. Is he supposed to be available?

Claxton started 76 games last season, played 30 minutes a game, and shot free throws at .541. If you liked watching Poeltl at the line you’ll love Claxton. Not bad otherwise tho. Doesn’t shoot 3s.

sometimes people sell their junk at a garage sale and then go buy the same kind of junk at someone else's garage sale.

[Seventyniner]

I don't think the Spurs should be trading for anyone unless it's a young reclamation project at a low price (a second or two), or some sort of consolidation trade where they take on a contract that extends into next year and a bad first like the CHA pick in return for a better (more likely to convey) first.

But if a team with a disgruntled star greatly underperforms and decides to tear it down, the Spurs are in a prime position to swoop in. Though I think this is much more likely to happen in the summer than the trade deadline.

[exstatic]

I don't think the Spurs should be trading for anyone unless it's a young reclamation project at a low price (a second or two), or some sort of consolidation trade where they take on a contract that extends into next year and a bad first like the CHA pick in return for a better (more likely to convey) first.

But if a team with a disgruntled star greatly underperforms and decides to tear it down, the Spurs are in a prime position to swoop in. Though I think this is much more likely to happen in the summer than the trade deadline.

I'm pretty much in the opposite camp. In the summer, there are probably 24 teams that think they can get one of the 16 playoff spots. In February, no one is wearing beer goggles anymore.

[SpurSpike]

If we want to go after promising young talent we could try to pull former #5 pick Jaden Ivey from Detroit. They got Killian Haze and Cade Cunningham, Ivey seems to be the odd man out as a ball handler. There have been recent rumors that he may become available for a 1st round pick and a role player.

[BacktoBasics]

If we want to go after promising young talent we could try to pull former #5 pick Jaden Ivey from Detroit. They got Killian Haze and Cade Cunningham, Ivey seems to be the odd man out as a ball handler. There have been recent rumors that he may become available for a 1st round pick and a role player.

I haven't watched any of their games but checking box scores he does seem to be the odd man out. What's going that has him limited to a bench role? Is it really just that the other two are playing that much better? You'd think they would have made a point to put more minutes on Ivey considering he was supposed to be Morant lite for them.

[SpurSpike]

I haven't watched any of their games but checking box scores he does seem to be the odd man out. What's going that has him limited to a bench role? Is it really just that the other two are playing that much better? You'd think they would have made a point to put more minutes on Ivey considering he was supposed to be Morant lite for them.

It seems they are valuing the defense of Haze and Cade over Ivey's offense.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs need to start giving Graham some minutes so they can up his value. I mean what is their plan for him? If they end up just letting him walk that Boston trade is starting to look pretty bad. I get it was necessary and the 2028 swap is there but it's doubtful that will be a high end pick and if so the Spurs basically traded White for some seconds and Blake Wesley who is looking like he'll be in China in a few years

Graham/McD/Osman should all be gone by the deadline imo

[exstatic]

Spurs need to start giving Graham some minutes so they can up his value. I mean what is their plan for him? If they end up just letting him walk that Boston trade is starting to look pretty bad. I get it was necessary and the 2028 swap is there but it's doubtful that will be a high end pick and if so the Spurs basically traded White for some seconds and Blake Wesley who is looking like he'll be in China in a few years

Graham/McD/Osman should all be gone by the deadline imo

He didn't come from Boston, he came from NO, along with 4 SRPs for Josh Richardson. If they get something else for him, fine. If not, no biggie. They've already been paid to take his contract by some of those those SRPs. If you're looking for some sort of big payout for him, beyond maybe a SRP, you're going to be disappointed.

The pivot point for that Boston trade was always the swap. 2028 is a long time from now. Tatum will be 30, and Brown will be 32, both likely hugely overpaid and over the hill.

[Leetonidas]

He didn't come from Boston, he came from NO, along with 4 SRPs for Josh Richardson. If they get something else for him, fine. If not, no biggie. They've already been paid to take his contract by some of those those SRPs. If you're looking for some sort of big payout for him, beyond maybe a SRP, you're going to be disappointed.

The pivot point for that Boston trade was always the swap. 2028 is a long time from now. Tatum will be 30, and Brown will be 32, both likely hugely overpaid and over the hill.

Yeah I got that. But the Spurs traded Jrich for Graham. So functionally the trade has been White for Graham, Wesley, some seconds, and a swap. 30 and 32 are not old, both of them will probably still be very good players by then especially Tatum.

I'm just saying, the Spurs need to figure out what theyre doing with Graham because he isn't playing, has basically 0 value right now, is a free agent after this year, and does not look to be in SAs long term plans. Especially given our PG woes, it makes no sense that he is getting 0 floor time

[Kevin]

If Jaden Ivey becomes available Spurs should be all in. Perfect fit for need and timeline. I'd offer the Bulls pick for Ivey right now.

[spurraider21]

Spurs need to start giving Graham some minutes so they can up his value. I mean what is their plan for him? If they end up just letting him walk that Boston trade is starting to look pretty bad. I get it was necessary and the 2028 swap is there but it's doubtful that will be a high end pick and if so the Spurs basically traded White for some seconds and Blake Wesley who is looking like he'll be in China in a few years

Graham/McD/Osman should all be gone by the deadline imo
:lol nobody is going to trade for graham at his salary

i dont mind giving him run because he might spark the offense somewhat, but not because i think we can extract an asset or two out of it

[exstatic]

:lol nobody is going to trade for graham at his salary

i dont mind giving him run because he might spark the offense somewhat, but not because i think we can extract an asset or two out of it

His salary for next year is only $2.5m guaranteed, so, yes, someone might want to cut their payroll/tax by $10M with the looming punitive second apron. They can do that if they trade for him in February, not later.

[spurraider21]

His salary for next year is only $2.5m guaranteed, so, yes, someone might want to cut their payroll/tax by $10M with the looming punitive second apron. They can do that if they trade for him in February, not later.
yeah that would require the spurs wanted to eat bad contracts going into next year as well

we should be past that

we tanked in 22-23, and effectively are doing the same in 23-24 (other than not trading the #1 overall pick, made no moves to improve the roster this year, instead using our cap space to eat contracts for future draft capital). really think its a good idea to prep for the same approach in 24-25?

[exstatic]

yeah that would require the spurs wanted to eat bad contracts going into next year as well

we should be past that

we tanked in 22-23, and effectively are doing the same in 23-24 (other than not trading the #1 overall pick, made no moves to improve the roster this year, instead using our cap space to eat contracts for future draft capital). really think its a good idea to prep for the same approach in 24-25?

It would depend on what the offer was. Like I said, I'm happy to let him roll off. One thing to consider though, is that with our payroll rising with more player extensions, this might be our last chance to pull something like this off.

[spurraider21]

It would depend on what the offer was. Like I said, I'm happy to let him roll off. One thing to consider though, is that with our payroll rising with more player extensions, this might be our last chance to pull something like this off.
sure, it might be our last chance to absorb contracts, but that also means it might be our last chance to sign players using cap space

[scott]

Was listening to the Sportrac podcast, NBA Next, and Keith Smith brought up some very good points (and whatever you think about Keith Smith, I think he is one of the best in terms of keeping tabs on the financial side of the league):

1) As of right now, only 3 teams project to have cap space going into next season, and none of them will have enough to offer the max. This could have big implications on a guy like Siakam, who has essentially said he wants to be a FA or be in TOR (as in, if you trade for me I won’t extend). But if he wants to secure a max or near max, he’s going to have to change his tune because he’ll only get that if a team has his bird rights
2) About a third of the league (9 teams) are in the zone of the second apron, and we could see a lot of movement towards the deadline. The draft pick penalties don’t kick in for first time offenders, but sounds like even on the first 2nd Apron offense you become limited to signing your draft picks, own FAs and min vet deals, AND you can no longer aggregate salary in trades. Some teams (like GSW) may not care about this, but we could see some others scrambling to get under the 2nd apron.

Latest episode of this was pretty good if you’re interested. They have the Spurs in the bucket of teams who “can do whatever they want”

[objective]

Jaden Ivey allegedly isn't even travelling with the Pistons he's so done with them.

Unfortunately, if he can't suit up for Monty that might scare Pop off.

[scott]

Keldon + CHA/CHI pick + seconds for Ivey and salary filler would be awesome - doubt it would get it done though.

Wonder how PAFTO felt about Ivey in the draft.

[BacktoBasics]

Ivey is listed out due to illness but I have no idea if there’s more to it. I wouldn’t move Keldon and a 1st for him. Dude hasn’t found minutes on a losing team.

I don’t mind parting with a 1st though.

[DesignatedT]

1724510733495370152

[CGD]

Great timing for us :-)

[JeffDuncan]

If the Bulls blow it up we might - cross your fingers - have a chance at Alex Caruso.

Caruso will turn 30 in February, he made the All-Defensive team last season, and he has spent most of his career playing point guard.

A veteran All-Defense point guard. Be still my heart.

For this Spurs team Caruso is easily worth a 1st round pick, which the Bulls should want, and then whatever else the Spurs can cobble together to offer. And his current contract is only $9.5 million.

I know, it’s too perfect to happen. Somebody else will get him dammit. The Spurs FO doesn’t have the ability to swing it. But we can dream.

[scott]

Complete CHI teardown imperils the pick they owe us. Though we'll have cracks at it in 2025, 26 and 27. A Detroit or Houston style rebuild, however, could easily see that pick not-conveying. Right now I put about a 40% change of that pick not conveying, if they truly start dismantling, I'd probably raise that to 60%

[tbdog]

DDR and Caruso for Johnson and chi 1st? Lavine is on 40mil making and they will want more picks.

[TD 21]

:lmao Why would anyone want DeRozan back? Just what a team that can't shoot or defend needs: An aging, pseudo star whose deficient at both and didn't want to be here.

Caruso is not a lead guard and pushing 30 with his playing style, is unlikely to age well.

[JeffDuncan]

DDR, do not want. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the T-shirt tore and faded, used it as a grease rag, threw it away. The end.

LaVine, do not want. Hot shot scorer but a total bone head, and you need a cattle prod to make him play defense. Basically only a sniper. For the Spurs he could turn out less valuable than McDermott is.

The Chi pick, screw it, for Caruso give it back to them. Then we don’t have to fret whether it’ll convey.

[objective]

Jaden Ivey allegedly isn't even travelling with the Pistons he's so done with them.

Unfortunately, if he can't suit up for Monty that might scare Pop off.

He's back playing off the bench. I suppose the Pistons places I had checked out has nothing better to do than speculate.

[objective]

I heard a podcast that had a stat that DeRozan has zero dunks on the season.

If that's true that's a big red flag about his declining athleticism.

[JeffDuncan]

…
Caruso is not a lead guard and pushing 30 with his playing style, is unlikely to age well.


Aging well doesn’t matter. The objective is near term, no more than four years. For now Caruso could start and be better than what the Spurs are doing. When the Spurs draft the fancy young point guard they hope for, Caruso could mentor him, especially about playing defense in the NBA, as the kid develops into a starter.

That plan would require giving Caruso one 2-year contract beyond his current deal. Wemby would be 23 then, and the theoretical kid, 22 or 23. And with any luck, they’d be ready for the big time.

As for Caruso not really being a lead guard, he’s a helluva lot closer to that than Sochan is, and anyway, are we suddenly worried about winning this year? When did that happen?

Of course Caruso won’t be the Spurs point guard 5 years from now, but that has nothing to do with anything.

[TD 21]

Aging well doesn’t matter. The objective is near term, no more than four years. For now Caruso could start and be better than what the Spurs are doing. When the Spurs draft the fancy young point guard they hope for, Caruso could mentor him, especially about playing defense in the NBA, as the kid develops into a starter.

That plan would require giving Caruso one 2-year contract beyond his current deal. Wemby would be 23 then, and the theoretical kid, 22 or 23. And with any luck, they’d be ready for the big time.

As for Caruso not really being a lead guard, he’s a helluva lot closer to that than Sochan is, and anyway, are we suddenly worried about winning this year? When did that happen?

Of course Caruso won’t be the Spurs point guard 5 years from now, but that has nothing to do with anything.

I get it, but Caruso is going to cost a relatively significant amount and if they're going to pay that cost, I'd rather it be for a young, potential offensive "engine", like Ivey, for example.

[Kevin]

Pistons fans are saying they need a decent backup C behind Duren because Wiseman is awful. Maybe Keldon and Bassey plus the Bulls pick for Ivey and Wiseman with the Spurs waiving Wiseman and opening a spot for Barlow. Still not enough if I am Detroit because the Bulls pick has a too high of a chance of never conveying.

Too bad for Detroit that the Kings took Keegan Murray. Duren and Murray would be a nice frontcourt to go along with Cunningham and Haynes at point with Thompson on the wing. Plus the Pistons have a ton of future firsts coming up.

[TD 21]

Pistons fans are saying they need a decent backup C behind Duren because Wiseman is awful. Maybe Keldon and Bassey plus the Bulls pick for Ivey and Wiseman with the Spurs waiving Wiseman and opening a spot for Barlow. Still not enough if I am Detroit because the Bulls pick has a too high of a chance of never conveying.

Too bad for Detroit that the Kings took Keegan Murray. Duren and Murray would be a nice frontcourt to go along with Cunningham and Haynes at point with Thompson on the wing. Plus the Pistons have a ton of future firsts coming up.

Wiseman is on the deep bench. Bagley III is their primary backup C, plus they have Stewart, a C, masquerading as their starting PF.

They need wings/forwards + shooting.

[JeffDuncan]

I get it, but Caruso is going to cost a relatively significant amount and if they're going to pay that cost, I'd rather it be for a young, potential offensive "engine", like Ivey, for example.


Ivey is a shooting guard, tho. He played 64% of the time at SG last year, and so far this year he’s been at SG 72% of the time. He’s spent most of the rest of the time this year at SF for them.

When Caruso was with the Fakers in ’20-21 he played 100% of the time at PG. By the way.

Caruso, cost? His contract is $2.5 million less than the Spurs are paying Graham. It’s nothing (in this NBA.)

[Obstructed_View]

DDR and Caruso for Johnson and chi 1st? Lavine is on 40mil making and they will want more picks.

Why the filuck would the Spurs want Demar? He is awful. I'd rather have Lonnie Walker back. :lmao

[spurraider21]

Ivey is a shooting guard, tho. He played 64% of the time at SG last year, and so far this year he’s been at SG 72% of the time. He’s spent most of the rest of the time this year at SF for them.

When Caruso was with the Fakers in ’20-21 he played 100% of the time at PG. By the way.

Caruso, cost? His contract is $2.5 million less than the Spurs are paying Graham. It’s nothing (in this NBA.)
i think by cost he may be referring to assets we'd have to give up to acquire him, not his salary

[Obstructed_View]

He's back playing off the bench. I suppose the Pistons places I had checked out has nothing better to do than speculate.

Aren't he and Wesley buddies? I remember before the draft the two of them were talking about being one-and-done as though it was the pinnacle of your basketball career.

[TD 21]

Ivey is a shooting guard, tho. He played 64% of the time at SG last year, and so far this year he’s been at SG 72% of the time. He’s spent most of the rest of the time this year at SF for them.

When Caruso was with the Fakers in ’20-21 he played 100% of the time at PG. By the way.

Caruso, cost? His contract is $2.5 million less than the Spurs are paying Graham. It’s nothing (in this NBA.)

He's a combo guard (designation/role is often a function of roster construction), but has lead guard potential (the days of traditional PG's are mostly over), which means a primary ball handler who can break down the defense and bring two to the ball either via pull-up 3-point shooting or rim pressure.

Especially when you have an all world big (see Murray and Maxey). The Spurs don't need a souped-up Jones when Wembanyama, Vassell and Sochan will all have various degrees of ball handling responsibilities going forward.

Wrong. James and Rondo were the Lakers lead guards, even though the former defends forwards and by cost, I mean in terms of asset(s).

[exstatic]

DDR and Caruso for Johnson and chi 1st? Lavine is on 40mil making and they will want more picks.

DDR needs the ball to be effective, and that would stunt Wemby’s growth. Hard pass.

[tbdog]

Come do think of it, I would pass on DDR. But man I would welcome his passing.

[J_Paco]

I would love one of Cason Wallace, Cole Anthony, Aaron Nemhard, or Markelle Fultz (although Fultz might be too much of a financial investment, currently), but not at the expense of our (own) first-round pick.

This upcoming class isn't as good (on paper) as '23, but there are a bunch intriguing wing & guard prospects, IMO.

[exstatic]

I would love either Cason Wallace, Cole Anthony, Aaron Nemhard, or Markelle Fultz (although Fultz might be too much of a financial investment, currently), but not a the expense of in any way losing our own first-round pick.

This upcoming class isn't as good (on paper) as '23, but there are a bunch intriguing wing & guard prospects, IMO.

OKC gave up assets to move up for Wallace. They’re not trading him to us. The other three guys are journeymen.

You can’t judge a class this early. In fact, you can’t judge a class for like 3 years after it’s drafted.

[hoopdreams11]

please take Sochan out he’s lost on defense an offense

[hoopdreams11]

this point guard experiment is demoralizing the team nobody is running back

[J_Paco]

OKC gave up assets to move up for Wallace. They’re not trading him to us. The other three guys are journeymen.

You can’t judge a class this early. In fact, you can’t judge a class for like 3 years after it’s drafted.

Well, I think any of those three 'journeymen' (don't you have to play on multiple teams before you can be called that?) could do a better job of running an offense and getting Wemby the ball than the shit we are seeing.

And I did mention that I wouldn't acquire any if it meant giving up a first - round pick, so in essence we'd still be able to acquire a 'better' PG prospect.

[Mugen]

DDR needs the ball to be effective, and that would stunt Wemby’s growth. Hard pass.

You know what else stunt's Wemby's growth? :lol

[scott]

It will be curious how long Brian Wright and the rest of the FO tolerate the "we're just gonna see what happens" year. Wright may not have the political capital, but he should pull a Billy Beane in Moneyball and force more effort out of the coaching staff by just trading away all of the pet cats. Can't play Sochan at PG if he plays for another team.

[JeffDuncan]

He's a combo guard …



Ivey is a shooting guard.

When I wrote that Caruso played 100% of the time at PG that is a fact, whether you like it or not.

Caruso’ contract is $9.5 million, it is not expensive.

Let’s have an honest discussion, if you want to talk about this.

[JeffDuncan]

It will be curious how long Brian Wright and the rest of the FO tolerate the "we're just gonna see what happens" year. Wright may not have the political capital, but he should pull a Billy Beane in Moneyball and force more effort out of the coaching staff by just trading away all of the pet cats. Can't play Sochan at PG if he plays for another team.


Pin your hopes on Wright? Forget that. It’s much easier to get rid of him than Pop, and he knows it.

[FutureMan]

CHI: Graham, Welsey, & picks
SAS: Caruso & Carter

I keep coming back to Tyus Jones but both Caruso & Carter are under contract for next year so that helps with giving up picks.

[TD 21]

Ivey is a shooting guard.

When I wrote that Caruso played 100% of the time at PG that is a fact, whether you like it or not.

Caruso’ contract is $9.5 million, it is not expensive.

Let’s have an honest discussion, if you want to talk about this.

Wrong.

Who cares about some label? He's not much of a creator. Ivey has the potential to be, even if he's not a great playmaker.

Again, relatively expensive in terms of assets the Spurs would have to give up.

[benefactor]

You know what else stunt's Wemby's growth? :lol
Gregg Charles Popovich

[tbdog]

Man. We need a pg and have Sochan and Wemby play their correct positions.

[scott]

Wrong.

Who cares about some label? He's not much of a creator. Ivey has the potential to be, even if he's not a great playmaker.

Again, relatively expensive in terms of assets the Spurs would have to give up.

exactly, it’s dumb to be locked into thinking in terms of traditional positions. Primary Ball Handler, Wing, Big, etc. are better descriptors. Ivey and Vassell may both play SG at times, for example, but the two are completely different players and archetypes. Ivey is a primary ball handler archetype, whereas Vassell is a wing.

You can get even more specific with this line of thinking: https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1974726

Ivey pretty clearly would be a nice fit on this team. Whether he would be a good player or not, is yet to be seen.

[Dverde]

McNuggets is going to be another buy out. Spurs are not doing any trades for roster upgrades.

[BacktoBasics]

McNuggets is going to be another buy out. Spurs are not doing any trades for roster upgrades.

Where do you people come up with this shit. I’d bet my life this team doesn’t buy out Doug. It’s simply not happening. Period.

[buttsR4rebounding]

DDR needs the ball to be effective, and that would stunt Wemby’s growth. Hard pass.

What growth?

[JeffDuncan]

Wrong.

Who cares about some label? He's not much of a creator. Ivey has the potential to be, even if he's not a great playmaker.

Again, relatively expensive in terms of assets the Spurs would have to give up.


Wrong.

Get off it. Ivey is a shooting guard.

“Potential,” great. Another one with potential. A bucket of potential and $5 will buy a cup of coffee.

[JeffDuncan]

Ivey pretty clearly would be a nice fit on this team. Whether he would be a good player or not, is yet to be seen.


Sure, another young player with potential who’s a lousy defender would fit the Spurs perfectly exactly as they are, especially when the team needs a point guard and he isn’t one. Great choice.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Aging well doesn’t matter. The objective is near term, no more than four years. For now Caruso could start and be better than what the Spurs are doing. When the Spurs draft the fancy young point guard they hope for, Caruso could mentor him, especially about playing defense in the NBA, as the kid develops into a starter.

That plan would require giving Caruso one 2-year contract beyond his current deal. Wemby would be 23 then, and the theoretical kid, 22 or 23. And with any luck, they’d be ready for the big time.

As for Caruso not really being a lead guard, he’s a helluva lot closer to that than Sochan is, and anyway, are we suddenly worried about winning this year? When did that happen?
Of course Caruso won’t be the Spurs point guard 5 years from now, but that has nothing to do with anything.
if Pop wanted a point guard in the starting lineup, then Tre would start
it is obvious that he only wants to see Sochan in this position now
and bringing in a veteran role player won't change that

[tim_duncan_fan]

Much as things suck right now. Be very mindful in talking of getting rid of picks.

Much as things suck right now, Vic still has some growing and learning before we are talking serious contention anyway, so we don't need to get middling returns on pick stock just because we want to win 45 games this year for some reason.

We should be losing, technically, just not looking extremely stupid as we lose.

[ambchang]

The more I look at it the more i think it’s not PATFO letting the players figure things out, it’s actually PATFO trying to figure things out. There are obvious solutions to the short term fix but that would limit the ceiling of the team.

Over the years we have learned that SA is not a FA haven, and there are no giant local TV deals or endorsement opportunities to bankroll the team and players. The best and safest way to go about is to build on your assets through drafts and trades. I think we can all agree on that.

What PATFO seems to be doing now is that they have no idea they have on their hands. Players like keldon, Tre and Vassell are comparatively traditional and typical talents. Not to say they are not good, just that they have dozens of previous and existing prototypes of similar players. Zach has unique strengths but also glaring weaknesses. Wemby is a unicorn, sochan is relatively unique in his game. Somewhere between a Simmons and a green, who may pan out to be better than either in their primes if developed properly. Braham has potential but is severely undeveloped and Wesley is even further still. PATFO is observing and seeing what raw talents are available on the roster right now and look to shape and develop accordingly, at least that is what it seems to me.

Not going to lie, this is extremely infuriating to watch and I think if PATFO is willing to go onto a safer and more traditional route (Tre at PG, wemby at c, collins at PF, sochan as 6th man), coach the basics in how to defend the three, how to do a simple entry pass, park wemby at the high post, etc… they can be a 40 win team this season. But then what? A jump from 30 wins to 40 wins isn’t that hard. Going from 40 to 50, then to 60 and title contention gets progressively harder. If PATFO goes with conventional wisdom and just put incremental pieces around, they may never win a title, but if they were to observe and build an optimal system around the strengths of the current team, while continuing to add to it, they are looking to build a dynasty.

It’s not just the players learning. It’s PATFO learning.

[TDomination]

The more I look at it the more i think it’s not PATFO letting the players figure things out, it’s actually PATFO trying to figure things out. There are obvious solutions to the short term fix but that would limit the ceiling of the team.

Over the years we have learned that SA is not a FA haven, and there are no giant local TV deals or endorsement opportunities to bankroll the team and players. The best and safest way to go about is to build on your assets through drafts and trades. I think we can all agree on that.

What PATFO seems to be doing now is that they have no idea they have on their hands. Players like keldon, Tre and Vassell are comparatively traditional and typical talents. Not to say they are not good, just that they have dozens of previous and existing prototypes of similar players. Zach has unique strengths but also glaring weaknesses. Wemby is a unicorn, sochan is relatively unique in his game. Somewhere between a Simmons and a green, who may pan out to be better than either in their primes if developed properly. Braham has potential but is severely undeveloped and Wesley is even further still. PATFO is observing and seeing what raw talents are available on the roster right now and look to shape and develop accordingly, at least that is what it seems to me.

Not going to lie, this is extremely infuriating to watch and I think if PATFO is willing to go onto a safer and more traditional route (Tre at PG, wemby at c, collins at PF, sochan as 6th man), coach the basics in how to defend the three, how to do a simple entry pass, park wemby at the high post, etc… they can be a 40 win team this season. But then what? A jump from 30 wins to 40 wins isn’t that hard. Going from 40 to 50, then to 60 and title contention gets progressively harder. If PATFO goes with conventional wisdom and just put incremental pieces around, they may never win a title, but if they were to observe and build an optimal system around the strengths of the current team, while continuing to add to it, they are looking to build a dynasty.

It’s not just the players learning. It’s PATFO learning.

Interesting take. The most likely scenario is this. They know that Tre is not the PG of the future so thats why they went another route.
It perplexes me as to why its sochan though. What did they see in his game that makes them think PG?

But how do they plan for the future while not destroying the present? Losing in embarrassing fashion is no bueno for business nor for fan interest. And especially no good for trying to properly groom your future star player.

Something as simple as having Tre Jones as starter and having Sochan be PG when Jones goes to the bench.
That way its not all the time and it allows Sochan to do it against the other teams 2nd stringer.

The gameplan just doesn't make sense. I'm all for the future but man you can't trash the present either.

[Big Empty]

When is it time to extend Wemby? We have until that year for him to be excited about being in San Antonio because whether we can match or not, if he wants out the Spurs will honor it and thats that. They know that, i expect them to figure it out and get extremely aggressive in trades by the deadline or this summer.

[scott]

Sure, another young player with potential who’s a lousy defender would fit the Spurs perfectly exactly as they are, especially when the team needs a point guard and he isn’t one. Great choice.

Sure, let's go after the 30-year old "PG" who averaged a whopping 2.8 APG the year you cite as him "100% playing PG".


As for Caruso not really being a lead guard, he’s a helluva lot closer to that than Sochan is

I agree with this, but as much as Caruso is closer to a lead guard than Sochan, Ivey is closer to being one than Caruso.

The more I read your posts, the more I wonder if you've suffered some sort of brain damage.

[JeffDuncan]

Sure, let's go after the 30-year old "PG" who …


Who is actually a pg and who was named to the All-Defensive team last season. Sure, no reason a team that’s horrible on defense and that needs a point guard would ever want a player like that.

Are you brain damaged?

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Who is actually a pg and who was named to the All-Defensive team last season. Sure, no reason a team that’s horrible on defense and that needs a point guard would ever want a player like that.

Are you brain damaged?
why do the spurs need to improve their defense?
are they trying to make the playoffs?
or maybe pop wants a true point guard in the starting lineup?

[mo7888]

If Jaden Ivey becomes available Spurs should be all in. Perfect fit for need and timeline. I'd offer the Bulls pick for Ivey right now.

I seriously doubt that's enough to get a conversation started.

[scott]

Who is actually a pg and who was named to the All-Defensive team last season. Sure, no reason a team that’s horrible on defense and that needs a point guard would ever want a player like that.

Are you brain damaged?

Not sure if you've noticed, not only does our team suck at defense, it also sucks at offense. Caruso would be a nice addition on defense (-0.1 ORaptor, +6.1 DRaptor last season) but would be a worse option than Tre Jones (+1.2 ORaptor, +0.7 DRaptor last season) on offense.

We can agree our historically terrible defense needs improvement, but the PG position's biggest detriment to the team right now is how it is stunting the offensive development of the team.

[Leetonidas]

Idk, the whole PATFO not being sure what they have thing sounds like a cop out. I mean they had all of last season and seasons prior with some of these guys to figure out what they have. How do they not know it by now? Aside from Osman who is a vet, Victor is the only new addition. it just makes them sound incredibly incompetent to not know what they have at this point. I don't think any other team in the league would be doing this bullshit.. 29 other teams would put a real fucking PG next to victor.

[rjv]

Idk, the whole PATFO not being sure what they have thing sounds like a cop out. I mean they had all of last season and seasons prior with some of these guys to figure out what they have. How do they not know it by now? Aside from Osman who is a vet, Victor is the only new addition. it just makes them sound incredibly incompetent to not know what they have at this point. I don't think any other team in the league would be doing this bullshit.. 29 other teams would put a real fucking PG next to victor.

perhaps, but not surrounding a generational talent with a decent PG is not unprecedented. when lebron was a rookie, he had trash like kellin ollie on his roster and jordan had wes matthews. granted, they were guards that took over the ball handling duties but wemby isn't really a traditional big who plays more outside the paint that in it.

[Leetonidas]

perhaps, but not surrounding a generational talent with a decent PG is not unprecedented. when lebron was a rookie, he had trash like kellin ollie on his roster and jordan had wes matthews. granted, they were guards that took over the ball handling duties but wemby isn't really a traditional big who plays more outside the paint that in it.

Yeah but LeBron is a natural ball handler and a point forward. And the Cavaliers were an incompetent franchise that completely failed LeBron in his first stint there and routinely surrounded him with garbage and washed up has beens. Not sure using them as a comparison is a great analog :lol especially considering LeBron ditched them because of their ineptitude

[scott]

Idk, the whole PATFO not being sure what they have thing sounds like a cop out. I mean they had all of last season and seasons prior with some of these guys to figure out what they have. How do they not know it by now? Aside from Osman who is a vet, Victor is the only new addition. it just makes them sound incredibly incompetent to not know what they have at this point. I don't think any other team in the league would be doing this bullshit.. 29 other teams would put a real fucking PG next to victor.

If we even go back in time to look at the Spurs own history of landing generational bigmen:

In 1989, we acquired Mo Cheeks (and Terry Cummings in addition to drafting Sean Elliott) to put together team that had promising youth (Robinson, Elliott, and promising 2nd year man Willie Anderson) coupled with two key vets (Cheeks, Cummings). To get Cheeks, the Spurs had to give up Johnny Dawkins, who averaged 14p/7a just the year prior in his third season and 16/7 the year before. On paper, the only think Cheeks provided over Dawkins was experience and maybe a slight upgrade on defense. The FO knew then that it needed to surround it's young core with solid vets. Of course, Cheeks didn't work out and was eventually traded for Rod Strickland.

In 1997, the Spurs trotted out Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting backcourt next to Duncan, Robinson and Elliott. This was a unique situation since the team was pretty much already established and it was injuries (and maybe a little tanking) that landed Duncan. But once again, the Spurs didn't surround Timmy with an inexperienced point guard.

What they are doing here with Victor seems really unprecedented and borderline negligent. I get it, we are young, we are rebuilding slowly. They didn't need to go all in like they did in getting Cheeks and Cummings (two multiple time all-stars, and recent all-stars at that. Cheeks was one season removed from his last AS selection and Cummings made it the year prior and probably deserved to make it his first year with the Spurs), but to go full in on a completely inexperienced team and starting line up deserves to be called out and questioned.

[rjv]

Yeah but LeBron is a natural ball handler and a point forward. And the Cavaliers were an incompetent franchise that completely failed LeBron in his first stint there and routinely surrounded him with garbage and washed up has beens. Not sure using them as a comparison is a great analog :lol especially considering LeBron ditched them because of their ineptitude


because the cavs never added the necessary pieces after a few years, not games. the bulls, on the other hand, made sure to build around jordan.

[rjv]

If we even go back in time to look at the Spurs own history of landing generational bigmen:

In 1989, we acquired Mo Cheeks (and Terry Cummings in addition to drafting Sean Elliott) to put together team that had promising youth (Robinson, Elliott, and promising 2nd year man Willie Anderson) coupled with two key vets (Cheeks, Cummings). To get Cheeks, the Spurs had to give up Johnny Dawkins, who averaged 14p/7a just the year prior in his third season and 16/7 the year before. On paper, the only think Cheeks provided over Dawkins was experience and maybe a slight upgrade on defense. The FO knew then that it needed to surround it's young core with solid vets. Of course, Cheeks didn't work out and was eventually traded for Rod Strickland.

In 1997, the Spurs trotted out Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting backcourt next to Duncan, Robinson and Elliott. This was a unique situation since the team was pretty much already established and it was injuries (and maybe a little tanking) that landed Duncan. But once again, the Spurs didn't surround Timmy with an inexperienced point guard.

What they are doing here with Victor seems really unprecedented and borderline negligent. I get it, we are young, we are rebuilding slowly. They didn't need to go all in like they did in getting Cheeks and Cummings (two multiple time all-stars, and recent all-stars at that. Cheeks was one season removed from his last AS selection and Cummings made it the year prior and probably deserved to make it his first year with the Spurs), but to go full in on a completely inexperienced team and starting line up deserves to be called out and questioned.

i'd have to get a better grasp on what the cap worked like back then before making any comparisons. also, David was 24 when he came into the NBA, not 19. and if we looked at the options that were available last summer in the FA class, who could the spurs have realistically gone after that would have been a nice fit for Wemby? i would've been pissed if they had given van vleet $40 million. if the spurs roll back the same roster next season, i'll scratch my head but i'm pretty certain that's not the plan. this roster and the lineup will look different next season.

[Leetonidas]

because the cavs never added the necessary pieces after a few years, not games. the bulls, on the other hand, made sure to build around jordan.

All I'm asking for is an actual PG my man. I don't think asking the FO to give their generational big man an actual PG to run the offense is too much to ask for. It doesn't need to be an all-star. Id settle for Ish Smith at this point:lol

[J_Paco]

perhaps, but not surrounding a generational talent with a decent PG is not unprecedented. when lebron was a rookie, he had trash like kellin ollie on his roster and jordan had wes matthews. granted, they were guards that took over the ball handling duties but wemby isn't really a traditional big who plays more outside the paint that in it.



Shaq had Scott Skiles as his starting PG during his rookie season.

[rjv]

Shaq had Scott Skiles as his starting PG during his rookie season.


yeah, shaq had a solid PG. that's why i didn't mention him. : )

[rjv]

All I'm asking for is an actual PG my man. I don't think asking the FO to give their generational big man an actual PG to run the offense is too much to ask for. It doesn't need to be an all-star. Id settle for Ish Smith at this point:lol


yeah, it's painful. that PG is not going to be in the 2024 FA class though. we're either getting one in the draft or via a trade.

[exstatic]

If we even go back in time to look at the Spurs own history of landing generational bigmen:

In 1989, we acquired Mo Cheeks (and Terry Cummings in addition to drafting Sean Elliott) to put together team that had promising youth (Robinson, Elliott, and promising 2nd year man Willie Anderson) coupled with two key vets (Cheeks, Cummings). To get Cheeks, the Spurs had to give up Johnny Dawkins, who averaged 14p/7a just the year prior in his third season and 16/7 the year before. On paper, the only think Cheeks provided over Dawkins was experience and maybe a slight upgrade on defense. The FO knew then that it needed to surround it's young core with solid vets. Of course, Cheeks didn't work out and was eventually traded for Rod Strickland.

In 1997, the Spurs trotted out Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro as the starting backcourt next to Duncan, Robinson and Elliott. This was a unique situation since the team was pretty much already established and it was injuries (and maybe a little tanking) that landed Duncan. But once again, the Spurs didn't surround Timmy with an inexperienced point guard.

What they are doing here with Victor seems really unprecedented and borderline negligent. I get it, we are young, we are rebuilding slowly. They didn't need to go all in like they did in getting Cheeks and Cummings (two multiple time all-stars, and recent all-stars at that. Cheeks was one season removed from his last AS selection and Cummings made it the year prior and probably deserved to make it his first year with the Spurs), but to go full in on a completely inexperienced team and starting line up deserves to be called out and questioned.

If anything,1989 serves to support the current position. They traded a young All D, All NBA, All Star guard for Terry Cummings,who lasted 3 seasons before blowing his knee out and being completely washed. They traded Dawkins for the vet Cheeks who forced his way out, and was traded for another youngster in Strickland. Imagine if they don’t do the Cummings trade, and Cheeks is still unhappy and they move on Strickland.

C Robinson
SF Elliott
SG Robertson
PG Strickland

Then, you either keep Cadillac or Greenwood from the previous year as a PF.

Doing what they did kind of blew up in their faces, and they didn’t recover from that until Duncan.

I remember discussions of Kawhi, and Pop thinking he was kind of a super Bowen. He pretty much missed that one, and I don’t want him missing on this one by making assumptions about what Wemby is. I’m fine with dumping this season, getting a handle on things, and another high pick.

[scott]

i'd have to get a better grasp on what the cap worked like back then before making any comparisons. also, David was 24 when he came into the NBA, not 19. and if we looked at the options that were available last summer in the FA class, who could the spurs have realistically gone after that would have been a nice fit for Wemby? i would've been pissed if they had given van vleet $40 million. if the spurs roll back the same roster next season, i'll scratch my head but i'm pretty certain that's not the plan. this roster and the lineup will look different next season.

Agree with all your saying here for sure.

One thing on David being 24... I think we often look at this like "yeah of course he came in and was immediately an All NBA player". But this was a time when everyone stayed in college for 4 years, and then he didn't play competitively for two years before joining the team while he fulfilled his commitment to Navy. So he was still a pretty typical rookie, just like Wemby is a pretty typical rookie (age wise). However, it is a good point of why we didn't go "all in" like we did for David (though I'd argue we didn't really go all-in, we were still starting 2 rookies and 1 second year guy).

Agreed FVV is not the way we should have gone... but I feel like even keeping Cam Payne and starting him would have been a better path than this.

[baseline bum]

Come do think of it, I would pass on DDR. But man I would welcome his passing.

Only passing I welcomed was Kobe's tbh

[scott]

If anything,1989 serves to support the current position. They traded a young All D, All NBA, All Star guard for Terry Cummings,who lasted 3 seasons before blowing his knee out and being completely washed. They traded Dawkins for the vet Cheeks who forced his way out, and was traded for another youngster in Strickland. Imagine if they don’t do the Cummings trade, and Cheeks is still unhappy and they move on Strickland.

C Robinson
SF Elliott
SG Robertson
PG Strickland

Then, you either keep Cadillac or Greenwood from the previous year as a PF.

Doing what they did kind of blew up in their faces, and they didn’t recover from that until Duncan.

I remember discussions of Kawhi, and Pop thinking he was kind of a super Bowen. He pretty much missed that one, and I don’t want him missing on this one by making assumptions about what Wemby is. I’m fine with dumping this season, getting a handle on things, and another high pick.

It is debatable, but I don't think Terry Cummings blowing out his knee in a summer pickup game 3 years later is something to point at and call the 1989 plan a bad plan. I'd call the TC acquisition a home run that got hit by some bad luck. By the time we traded Cheeks for Strickland, it was late February and the team had half a season with a combination of young talent and vet leadership. At no point was it what we have now - a bunch of young guys playing with very little direction or discipline. To be frank, the 2023-24 Spurs resemble everything we criticized the Steve Silas Rockets of being.

If we don't do the Cummings trade, and we still end up with Strickland but Cadillac in place of TC, I don't think we see nearly the same results. Now, if you are saying that maybe it would have been better to be 45-37 for DRob's early years and slowly build... that would be a fun conversation to be had. But I'm in the camp that acquiring TC in no way was a mistake or blew up in our faces, we just ran into bad luck with an injury. It could happen to anyone.

[TD 21]

Wrong.

Get off it. Ivey is a shooting guard.

“Potential,” great. Another one with potential. A bucket of potential and $5 will buy a cup of coffee.

You're an arrogant fool, who lacks common sense.

One last time: I don't care what Basketball-Reference's play-by-play data is telling you, that is mostly a function of roster construction (is Sochan a PG or just nominally playing it?). Read any pre-draft stuff about him or better yet, watch him play.

He's the definition of a combo guard. Just like Murray and White were and they were trying to turn Primo into, only he has a higher ceiling than any of them offensively.

:lmao This is a re-build and they need at least one more core building block, which will be based on potential.

[Robz4000]

Only passing I welcomed was Kobe's tbh

:wow:lmao

[baseline bum]

If anything,1989 serves to support the current position. They traded a young All D, All NBA, All Star guard for Terry Cummings,who lasted 3 seasons before blowing his knee out and being completely washed. They traded Dawkins for the vet Cheeks who forced his way out, and was traded for another youngster in Strickland. Imagine if they don’t do the Cummings trade, and Cheeks is still unhappy and they move on Strickland.

C Robinson
SF Elliott
SG Robertson
PG Strickland

Then, you either keep Cadillac or Greenwood from the previous year as a PF.

Doing what they did kind of blew up in their faces, and they didn’t recover from that until Duncan.

I remember discussions of Kawhi, and Pop thinking he was kind of a super Bowen. He pretty much missed that one, and I don’t want him missing on this one by making assumptions about what Wemby is. I’m fine with dumping this season, getting a handle on things, and another high pick.


It is debatable, but I don't think Terry Cummings blowing out his knee in a summer pickup game 3 years later is something to point at and call the 1989 plan a bad plan. I'd call the TC acquisition a home run that got hit by some bad luck. By the time we traded Cheeks for Strickland, it was late February and the team had half a season with a combination of young talent and vet leadership. At no point was it what we have now - a bunch of young guys playing with very little direction or discipline. To be frank, the 2023-24 Spurs resemble everything we criticized the Steve Silas Rockets of being.

If we don't do the Cummings trade, and we still end up with Strickland but Cadillac in place of TC, I don't think we see nearly the same results. Now, if you are saying that maybe it would have been better to be 45-37 for DRob's early years and slowly build... that would be a fun conversation to be had. But I'm in the camp that acquiring TC in no way was a mistake or blew up in our faces, we just ran into bad luck with an injury. It could happen to anyone.

Gotta imagine trading Alvin for TC was as much about his off the court problems as it was the Spurs needing a 4 and feeling pretty confident with Willie Anderson at the 2. And TC was also only a year older than Alvin. Bucks ended up dumping Alvin in 92-93 anyways after putting up 8.7PPG as a starter and he never ended up playing meaningful ball again in the league. The Cummings trade was excellent in retrospect even with him blowing out his knee. Alvin was a ticking time bomb. Glad he has gotten his life together now but the Spurs did well in that trade at the time.

[J_Paco]

yeah, shaq had a solid PG. that's why i didn't mention him. : )

He was okay at best, which means he was a 'stopgap,' and no better than Tre Jones. They acquired the elite PG prospect in the next draft.

The Spurs have a Scott Skiles - type PG, the issue is Pop isn't starting him when he should. Acquiring a long-term solution is the point of next year's draft.

[Chinook]

Can anyone tell me why RealGM seems to think Andrew Nembhard is super valuable? There was literally a thread in the forum where they had the Spurs trading Jones and two firsts (which including ATL25) for him, and the general consensus was that it was a slight overpay but that the Pacers shouldn't do it. Every stat I find suggests he's been worse than Jones and does't have any advantage over him. Is there something I'm missing? Does he blow up the eye test? The latest thread has the Spurs trading Keldon, Branham and Osman for Nembhard, Walker and Hield. The general consensus for that is that is extremely lopsided in the Spurs' favor. It feels like they're trolling, but they've been on this for weeks.

[SAGirl]

^ I think if the Spurs continue to play poorly their players get devalued for casuals that don’t watch the team. Also Tre is now a bench player so for casuals he’s not good enough. What they don’t know is he plays starter minutes and closes games at times.

I don’t watch the Pacers so I have no idea about Nembhard at all, so I don’t know what that’s about…

Also, I don’t value Branham perhaps as highly as others here. He hasn’t done anything to amaze me. He’s a good athlete but that’s pretty much it and there’s many athletic guys around. He’s young though and can develop, so I am not saying there’s no hope for him or anything, but I am not high in him atm.

[scott]

I think the inclusion of Walker is probably what makes it lopsided in the Spurs favor, only because he has that unknown, high lottery pick aura to him still. Hield is an upgrade over Osman, at least offensively. That would actually be an interesting trade for the Spurs, mostly because I think Keldon's tweener-ness causes too much overlap and problems for our rotations and he is kinda just the odd man out.

[Chinook]

I think the inclusion of Walker is probably what makes it lopsided in the Spurs favor, only because he has that unknown, high lottery pick aura to him still. Hield is an upgrade over Osman, at least offensively. That would actually be an interesting trade for the Spurs, mostly because I think Keldon's tweener-ness causes too much overlap and problems for our rotations and he is kinda just the odd man out.

While I think that's justifiable, that's not what the comments are about. Apparently the assumption is Walker doesn't fit and is not really providing the value here.

Look at this thread (I was wrong about ATL25 unless that was in a different thread. This had the Raptors pick): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2327803

[Das Texan]

Spurs REALLY could benefit from a veteran of some sort on this roster in the regular rotation.

That is PAINFULLY obvious at this point and its one of the biggest issues of this team. I get it, they are all young, et al et al, but if you want to learn how to win and succeed, its hard to do that without someone on your team that has been there and accomplished well something.

This needs to be priority one. Find someone you can insert into the starting lineup and play 25-30 min a game to really teach this team how to play NBA basketball and truly succeed.

At this point really dont care where they find that or who it is (well within reason on whom)

[SAGirl]

It seems like the guy who proposed the trade was high on Nembhard based on a small sample…

Without watching him I can’t really say anything… but if he’s so high on him why propose that trade at all? Why not keep your guy?

When he proposed it he seemed to think highly of Tre Jones as well… so honestly I don’t know what he’s even really looking for. Maybe he just wants picks and thinks Nembhard is worth all that?

I don’t think so.. that’s too rich. If sending out picks I’d want a veteran player. But without watching him I don’t know if he’s that good a prospect. His numbers overall don’t look great and he’s not a youngin.

[scott]

While I think that's justifiable, that's not what the comments are about. Apparently the assumption is Walker doesn't fit and is not really providing the value here.

Look at this thread (I was wrong about ATL25 unless that was in a different thread. This had the Raptors pick): https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2327803

I don't know jack about Nembhard other than I've heard of him spoken positively.

I wouldn't give up Tre + capital for Nembhard, because even if he is an upgrade over Tre, unless he is a HUGE upgrade over (meaning surefire long-term starter of the future), then we really aren't accomplishing much and it still leaves us with a hole at PG (though maybe at backup PG rather than near-term starting PG). Just getting a slightly better version of Tre Jones while simultaneously losing Tre Jones doens't get me super jazzed.

[CGD]

I’d take Nemhard just not at that price. I also think Keldon is moved by the start of next season, and it makes sense to start pricing him. Not ready to move Branham yet.

[mo7888]

Can anyone tell me why RealGM seems to think Andrew Nembhard is super valuable? There was literally a thread in the forum where they had the Spurs trading Jones and two firsts (which including ATL25) for him, and the general consensus was that it was a slight overpay but that the Pacers shouldn't do it. Every stat I find suggests he's been worse than Jones and does't have any advantage over him. Is there something I'm missing? Does he blow up the eye test? The latest thread has the Spurs trading Keldon, Branham and Osman for Nembhard, Walker and Hield. The general consensus for that is that is extremely lopsided in the Spurs' favor. It feels like they're trolling, but they've been on this for weeks.

I wouldn't include Branham, but Walker + Buddy + Nembhard for KJ + Cedi or Doug + Blake or Charlotte pick I'd be all over. Walker fits better next to Wembanyama than anyone we currently have. I had him 3rd on my BB for that reason.

[RC_Drunkford]

^ I think if the Spurs continue to play poorly their players get devalued for casuals that don’t watch the team. Also Tre is now a bench player so for casuals he’s not good enough. What they don’t know is he plays starter minutes and closes games at times.

I don’t watch the Pacers so I have no idea about Nembhard at all, so I don’t know what that’s about…

Also, I don’t value Branham perhaps as highly as others here. He hasn’t done anything to amaze me. He’s a good athlete but that’s pretty much it and there’s many athletic guys around. He’s young though and can develop, so I am not saying there’s no hope for him or anything, but I am not high in him atm.

Branham can create his own shot. He still has things to work on, but he can get buckets. Something a lot of players on our roster struggle with

[exstatic]

I don’t know why people are so down on Branham. He’s more advanced offensively than Vassell was in year two.

[SAGirl]

^ Not down… but his game kind of strikes me as the easiest kind to find. I don’t see anything special atm, tbqh.

He is really young though and I am always conscious of that. He could look much improved in a couple of years and make me look like a fool and that’s fine.

[rascal]

The only trades Spurstalk wants to make are the ones where they trade away players they don't value highly
thinking other teams are going to value these players enough to trade away assets that will improve the Spurs.

It might cost you Vassell in a trade and/or the Toronto pick and not the Charlotte pick to bring in a quality trade back.

[SAGirl]

https://youtu.be/hKpK8fyh7Ds?si=qBiupOac-obLM2zu

https://youtu.be/DKtrxqNDuHI?si=evD5-yHlFdwrYcT4

Nembhard highlights. He looks like a gifted passer and good decision maker on the pick and roll. Considering the Spurs need for that kind of game to add diversity to their offense, I think having him would help. At the same time, I think like Scott said above, trading Tre Jones for him plus 2 picks doesn’t accomplish much for the Spurs. He’s not going to be so high above Tre that you’d fix a problem. I also have questions about him long term because samples of good production are small to give up such a rich offer.

These are just highlights too. You can’t ever get a full and complete idea on a player based on highlights alone. Thee could be a lot of lowlights that aren’t depicted because his numbers don’t look great.

I do want the Spurs to be looking to add potentially a pick and roll player to the team… they are too predictable with their passes and part of it is lack of a little diversity in their offense with some dribble penetration from a playmaker. The team has guys that can get to the rim but they are not great passers out of it by my eye test (which admittedly is a small sample — I can’t watch every game, only what’s on national TV).

Id be reluctant to give up pick capital unless it’s for your main Pg of the future like Scott said because this team needs to keep that capital to keep fishing meantime.

[Leetonidas]

Id rather try to get Immanuel Quickley from NYK then Nembhard

[rjv]

^ I think if the Spurs continue to play poorly their players get devalued for casuals that don’t watch the team. Also Tre is now a bench player so for casuals he’s not good enough. What they don’t know is he plays starter minutes and closes games at times.

I don’t watch the Pacers so I have no idea about Nembhard at all, so I don’t know what that’s about…

Also, I don’t value Branham perhaps as highly as others here. He hasn’t done anything to amaze me. He’s a good athlete but that’s pretty much it and there’s many athletic guys around. He’s young though and can develop, so I am not saying there’s no hope for him or anything, but I am not high in him atm.

that's the first time i've ever heard anyone refer to branham as a "good athlete".

[rjv]

I don’t know why people are so down on Branham. He’s more advanced offensively than Vassell was in year two.


maliki can be frustrating at times when we have to watch him get swallowed up on picks but, on the offensive side, his mid-range is starting to become poetry. the problem is that his shot looks so much different once he steps back beyond that three point line. he needs to get more consistent from beyond the arc. if that happens, he'll be so much more potent.

[Kevin]

Thinking more about the Ivey trade and Keldon and the Raps pick probably gets the deal done.

[BacktoBasics]

Thinking more about the Ivey trade and Keldon and the Raps pick probably gets the deal done.

So you want to give up a potential and likely top 15 pick and a guy who is likely averaging 17ppg this season for a guy who can't crack the starting or back up PG spot on a team with a worse record than us?

Now don't get me wrong. I get that Ivey has a lot of potential and could very well be better than whoever that pick will be and Keldon combined but its a coin toss at this point. Ivey has minimal production and doesn't seem to be fitting with Monty's coaching style.

I don't think now is the right time to be giving up valuable offensive production considering where we are right now. Branham has been fine but isn't looking like he's ready to fill Keldon's offensive shoes. All this concern with how Wemby acclimates to the league and we're already struggling offensively. How is that going to look giving up our 3rd or potentially 2nd best scorer.

I would honestly wait until we're in a better spot to move Keldon.

I would be open to moving that pick and some other combination of players and additional picks for Ivey but not Keldon and a top 15. At least not now and not for a guy who has shown so little. At this point there's an argument that Ivey won't even be better than Keldon alone.

[exstatic]

Thinking more about the Ivey trade and Keldon and the Raps pick probably gets the deal done.
Ivey isn’t playing because his defense is attrocious. Do we really need to give up a FRP to get another player like that?

[R. DeMurre]

Id rather try to get Immanuel Quickley from NYK then Nembhard


I agree completely. Quickley and the Knicks are in a strange situation-- he'll be a free agent after this year and they realize that he's very good, but already have a starting PG in Brunson, and also have like 7 players under 6'5". It wouldn't be a case of them trading him because he's not a good player, but one of the situation and timing forcing their hand. If someone offers him a starter's level salary, it's going to be hard for them to match that for financial reasons. That's why I think it's time to pounce.

[BacktoBasics]

Ivey isn’t playing because his defense is attrocious. Do we really need to give up a FRP to get another player like that?

He’s not exactly killing it offensively either.

[BacktoBasics]

I agree completely. Quickley and the Knicks are in a strange situation-- he'll be a free agent after this year and they realize that he's very good, but already have a starting PG in Brunson, and also have like 7 players under 6'5". It wouldn't be a case of them trading him because he's not a good player, but one of the situation and timing forcing their hand. If someone offers him a starter's level salary, it's going to be hard for them to match that for financial reasons. That's why I think it's time to pounce.

I like Quickley but don’t really see him as a pg.

[Kevin]

Ivey isn’t playing because his defense is attrocious. Do we really need to give up a FRP to get another player like that?

That's what it would take for me to say yes if I was the Pistons GM. They took Ivey 5th overall and he's only 10 games into his second year and he's shown promise. I doubt they actually trade him for those very reasons.

[scott]

A unit need not have 5 defensive stalwarts on the floor to be a good defensive unit, and I think in the case of Ivey there could be some addition by subtraction if you reshuffle the lineup in other ways.

One way, and the way that would make DAF86 happy because it would allow him to gloat over this entire board, would be to move Sochan to the 4 and Wemby to the 5 and add an additional wing who is a good defender, say for example OG.

Ivey
Vassell
OG
Sochan
Wemby

Is likely a huge upgrade on the defensive end over what we play now.

I do agree thoguh that a trade like this is likely a very long shot.

[TD 21]

Can anyone tell me why RealGM seems to think Andrew Nembhard is super valuable? There was literally a thread in the forum where they had the Spurs trading Jones and two firsts (which including ATL25) for him, and the general consensus was that it was a slight overpay but that the Pacers shouldn't do it. Every stat I find suggests he's been worse than Jones and does't have any advantage over him. Is there something I'm missing? Does he blow up the eye test? The latest thread has the Spurs trading Keldon, Branham and Osman for Nembhard, Walker and Hield. The general consensus for that is that is extremely lopsided in the Spurs' favor. It feels like they're trolling, but they've been on this for weeks.

I know the Pacers are high on him (Carlisle claimed last season that he'd eventually go down as a top 10 player from his draft class) and by all accounts, he's a stereotypical Spur all around.

But at going on 24, lacking offensive dynamism and upside beyond a third guard, it doesn't make sense to offer the type of draft capital necessary to get them to consider moving him.



So you want to give up a potential and likely top 15 pick and a guy who is likely averaging 17ppg this season for a guy who can't crack the starting or back up PG spot on a team with a worse record than us?

Now don't get me wrong. I get that Ivey has a lot of potential and could very well be better than whoever that pick will be and Keldon combined but its a coin toss at this point. Ivey has minimal production and doesn't seem to be fitting with Monty's coaching style.

I don't think now is the right time to be giving up valuable offensive production considering where we are right now. Branham has been fine but isn't looking like he's ready to fill Keldon's offensive shoes. All this concern with how Wemby acclimates to the league and we're already struggling offensively. How is that going to look giving up our 3rd or potentially 2nd best scorer.

I would honestly wait until we're in a better spot to move Keldon.

I would be open to moving that pick and some other combination of players and additional picks for Ivey but not Keldon and a top 15. At least not now and not for a guy who has shown so little. At this point there's an argument that Ivey won't even be better than Keldon alone.

Again with the counting stats without context. Ivey could easily put up the similar high teens - low 20s ppg on poor efficiency that Johnson has in recent seasons with equivalent mpg/usage.

Johnson didn't get that role because he's actually suited or worthy of it anymore than Williams inexplicably cutting Ivey's role early shouldn't be a sign that he's not clearly better or higher upside than some of the guards ahead of him.

This trade would be a no brainer. They'd get their highest ceiling offensive guard since Parker while balancing the top half of the roster and still having their own '24 1st and all draft capital moving forward.

[RC_Drunkford]

Or Pop could just start Tre Jones and bring Devonte Graham off the bench. Increase his trade value as a bench PG and make a trade at the deadline. Of course this will never happen, but one can dream

[scott]

A unit need not have 5 defensive stalwarts on the floor to be a good defensive unit, and I think in the case of Ivey there could be some addition by subtraction if you reshuffle the lineup in other ways.

One way, and the way that would make DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) happy because it would allow him to gloat over this entire board, would be to move Sochan to the 4 and Wemby to the 5 and add an additional wing who is a good defender, say for example OG.

Ivey
Vassell
OG
Sochan
Wemby

Is likely a huge upgrade on the defensive end over what we play now.

I do agree thoguh that a trade like this is likely a very long shot.

The more I think of it, this is the way.

Trade Keldon + CHI pick + Lotto Protected 1st (or Swap) + Seconds for Ivey

Trade TOR + CHA picks for OG

Starting lineup is like the above plus we still have all our picks (except for what we send out for Ivey), the ATL picks, and BOS and DAL swaps.

[CGD]

^ Ivey is not the answer. Just target Collier in this draft. OG ain’t worth it

[itzsoweezee]

This team needs veterans. I'd rather not see additional young guys that don't know how to play basketball unless some of the current spurs young players that don't know how to play basketball are going out. Regardless, the priority should be signing a veteran point guard.

[BacktoBasics]

This team needs veterans. I'd rather not see additional young guys that don't know how to play basketball unless some of the current spurs young players that don't know how to play basketball are going out. Regardless, the priority should be signing a veteran point guard.

I’d love Collier and have no problem with a high level pg prospect but like you’ve pointed out a vet pg is really what this team needs. It would advance this squad forward significantly quicker than a rookie pg.

Thing is that really good vet pg’s are hoarded by contenders. They’re in short supply.

Not exactly a fan favorite but a second tier vet pg like Schroeder might be a decent consolation prize if the cost is reasonable.

[Spurs Homer]

This past summer there were several pg's available...

every genius on this board said. "no - wemby wont be ready for 3-4 seasons so we have to keep our picks and young guys blah blah"

now everyone is jumping ship and pining for pg's

[exstatic]

This past summer there were several pg's available...

every genius on this board said. "no - wemby wont be ready for 3-4 seasons so we have to keep our picks and young guys blah blah"

now everyone is jumping ship and pining for pg's

Those 3 PGs all went for multiple FRPs, and none of them were younger than 30 years old.

[rascal]

I’d love Collier and have no problem with a high level pg prospect but like you’ve pointed out a vet pg is really what this team needs. It would advance this squad forward significantly quicker than a rookie pg.

Thing is that really good vet pg’s are hoarded by contenders. They’re in short supply.

Not exactly a fan favorite but a second tier vet pg like Schroeder might be a decent consolation prize if the cost is reasonable.

No it's best to lose enough this year and get a top 5 pick and get the best PG in the draft.

Have some patience while the Spurs build a team that will be a future contender.

Getting a couple of future all star tier players(if the Spurs know how to draft) through the draft is the way to go. They will have many years playing with Wemby on the same time line.

[baseline bum]

The more I think of it, this is the way.

Trade Keldon + CHI pick + Lotto Protected 1st (or Swap) + Seconds for Ivey

Trade TOR + CHA picks for OG

Starting lineup is like the above plus we still have all our picks (except for what we send out for Ivey), the ATL picks, and BOS and DAL swaps.

Is Toronto not wanting to pay him next year? Because a first that'll be likely 10-16 plus two seconds for a 26 year old three and D guy like OG seems like a pipe dream.

[rascal]

This past summer there were several pg's available...

every genius on this board said. "no - wemby wont be ready for 3-4 seasons so we have to keep our picks and young guys blah blah"

now everyone is jumping ship and pining for pg's

Getting Dame would have made the spurs better this year but they wouldn't be contenders this year anyways
and would ruin their chance at a top draft pick and put them in the middle of the draft and that's not where you want to be. Draft similar type of players who are already on the roster.

The spurs need to add some young all star potential talent to the roster and the higher the picks the better chance to do that.

[rascal]

^ Ivey is not the answer. Just target Collier in this draft. OG ain’t worth it

Get Ivey and Collier. Ivey at the two. Get rid of Devin.

[TD 21]

Is Toronto not wanting to pay him next year? Because a first that'll be likely 10-16 plus two seconds for a 26 year old three and D guy like OG seems like a pipe dream.

The max extension they can offer him is 4/$117M, which he can exceed as a UFA. He's also delusional and wants more of an on ball role, something they can't offer until Siakam is moved.

Supposedly, they turned down 3 1sts from the Knicks at last season's trade deadline.

If the Spurs have interest, they should wait until free agency.



Get Ivey and Collier. Ivey at the two. Get rid of Devin.

Not enough shooting.

[rascal]

Not enough shooting.[/FONT]

I like Castle. Plays with a fire and an agressiveness the Spurs lack.

Also is ultra athletic something the spurs need.

[exstatic]

Is Toronto not wanting to pay him next year? Because a first that'll be likely 10-16 plus two seconds for a 26 year old three and D guy like OG seems like a pipe dream.

They lost FVV for nothing this summer, and both OG (PO, making $18M) and Siakam are unrestricted next summer. Maybe a case where something is better than nothing? Technically, either would be a rental.

[rankingtear]

Get Ivey and Collier. Ivey at the two. Get rid of Devin.

Ivey skillset is too overrated. Either you make him your engine or don't bother.

[itzsoweezee]

No it's best to lose enough this year and get a top 5 pick and get the best PG in the draft.

Have some patience while the Spurs build a team that will be a future contender.

Getting a couple of future all star tier players(if the Spurs know how to draft) through the draft is the way to go. They will have many years playing with Wemby on the same time line.

This team is going to be bad no matter what. Getting some competent veteran help is not going to stop that. And even if they draft a point guard in the lottery, that guy is going to need years to become competent because pg is the most difficult position to learn. Get a competent vet leader that can teach these guys how to play while the young guys continue to learn. That’s how good teams do it.

This team is on track to be one of the worst teams in history. That is not good for the players currently on the roster, especially not wemby.

[John B]

If the plan is to soft tank while Wemby develops, they don’t need to trade for a vet player, instead for more picks by trade deadline and get the Spurs as much chance for a high draft to nub the BPA available, hopefully a PG.

[rascal]

This team is going to be bad no matter what. Getting some competent veteran help is not going to stop that. And even if they draft a point guard in the lottery, that guy is going to need years to become competent because pg is the most difficult position to learn. Get a competent vet leader that can teach these guys how to play while the young guys continue to learn. That’s how good teams do it.

This team is on track to be one of the worst teams in history. That is not good for the players currently on the roster, especially not wemby.
They are still going to need to add young talent to surround Wemby with and that’s going to come from the draft. Adding veteran help now to win a few more games will push the Spurs further down the draft where it’s harder to find the top level prospects. Wemby will be fine but he needs better talent around him not a vet who will hurt the Spurs chances of getting top level draft talent now.

The Spurs don’t have a history of trading for current stars in their prime and already passed on doing that this summer. They aren’t going to unload all the draft capital they built up. Continue adding top prospects over the next couple of years and the Spurs are going to get better. It’s going to take some time and I’m sure Wemby is smart enough to realize this. He’s still going to win ROTY and make the all star team so he’s still going to have a good year.

[SpurSpike]

Perhaps we could try to snag Coby White from the bulls?

[baseline bum]

They lost FVV for nothing this summer, and both OG (PO, making $18M) and Siakam are unrestricted next summer. Maybe a case where something is better than nothing? Technically, either would be a rental.

Damn forgot FVV's deal is starting at nearly $41 million. Yeah I'd have a hard time giving Anunoby a four year, $180 deal which is the lowest I can see him asking after seeing what FVV got paid.

[The Truth #6]

Just play Devonte more before doing something ridiculous.

[Kevin]

If the plan is to soft tank while Wemby develops, they don’t need to trade for a vet player, instead for more picks by trade deadline and get the Spurs as much chance for a high draft to nub the BPA available, hopefully a PG.

Soft tanks is a great way to describe how this season is starting to feel like.

Feel bad for Sochan. His best position is PF which is taken by Wemby. He and Wemby aren't burly enough at this point to play C and Sochan outside shooting wont cut it at SF. He should go to the bench so he can get as many minutes as possible at PF.

[SAGirl]

What are people talking about a soft tank? It looks like a hard tank, a tankathon right now. A no-holds-barred straight up dive for the bottom unfortunately. Wow how the tides have turned here.

[The Truth #6]

Assuming it is a hard tank (though I think that's difficult to distinguish between lack of talent and young team) , then I have to assume they have a certain player they are hoping to get. So, who is that player?

[rjv]

What are people talking about a soft tank? It looks like a hard tank, a tankathon right now. A no-holds-barred straight up dive for the bottom unfortunately. Wow how the tides have turned here.

because it is a soft tank-if a tank at all. the spurs are not deliberately managing minutes or sitting players this go around and i'd be shocked if they did so down the road. what people can't seem to surmise is that this season is the consequence of last year's hard tank. you don't just get rid of d-white, murray, poeltl and even primo (for other reasons) and not expect to feel the impact of those transactions, even if the end result was picking up the grand prize. some would say that the spurs didn't make any moves this summer that could have made them better, but what player from this past FA class was worth spending money on? this place would have imploded if the spurs have dished out a three year $130 million contract to the likes of a fred van vleet. the rockets may look better this year but that roster is not going to seriously contend as it is currently constructed.

[jjspur]

Perhaps we could try to snag Coby White from the bulls?

I like White as well. He's as good if not better than anything we currently have at PG. Davion Mitchell from Sac is another under the radar type guy plus he's on a rookie contract. Both are still better than what we have and would give the team a boost. It isn't a fix for everything thats bad with this team but its a start.

[John B]

You have to give it to Pop to experiment Sochan at PG and cause a soft tank, instead of playing a true PG for some meaningless wins, IF the purpose is to soft tank. In the end Sochan gets to become a better facilitator while the Spurs nose-dive for a high draft pick. Only Pop has the guts to not caught in the Wemby circus but think about the long term future of the team. Anybody else could lose their job. I’m sure the Holts have bought in.

[TheBallsbreakers]

What are people talking about a soft tank? It looks like a hard tank, a tankathon right now. A no-holds-barred straight up dive for the bottom unfortunately. Wow how the tides have turned here.
Relax. We're only 11 games in.

[Splits]

Mark my words: we're going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to come mentor the team in his final 1-2 seasons. Book it.

[exstatic]

Mark my words: we're going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to come mentor the team in his final 1-2 seasons. Book it.

No. LeBron James would be one of the worst things to ever happen to this franchise.

[Splits]

No. LeBron James would be one of the worst things to ever happen to this franchise.

Pop loves him. More than his Cabernet. Like it or not, it's happening.

[The Truth #6]

Pop loves him. More than his Cabernet. Like it or not, it's happening.

So we are going to use our possibly high lottery pick on...Bronny. That's your plan?

[Splits]

So we are going to use our possibly high lottery pick on...Bronny. That's your plan?

Not my plan. Its just happening. Pop loves LBJ.

[ace3g]

According to Zach Lowe's latest article: due to Keldon's reduced role this year, "Other teams are keeping an eye on [Keldon Johnson]."

[exstatic]

Pop loves him. More than his Cabernet. Like it or not, it's happening.

There are people you can get along with that you just can’t work with. He would be an awful influence in the locker room, and no one I want around Wemby.

[LeBowen]

According to Zach Lowe's latest article: due to Keldon's reduced role this year, "Other teams are keeping an eye on [Keldon Johnson]."

Perfect timing to ship him out, tbh.
Spurs are in national media spotlight now and everyone will catch on glaring flaws in his game.

Would allow Jeremy to move back to his natural role and we could trade for a PG.
Time to mention my pipe dream yet again: Keldon and picks for Garland who's not a great fit next to Mitchell.

[The Truth #6]

Not my plan. Its just happening. Pop loves LBJ.

No way it's happening. So you think after getting Wemby we're going to use let's say like a number four five draft pick on his son who isn't that good so we can get his dad who's about to retire. So you think he's going to mentor our young players, when in fact he hates young players, and then would just want every single one of our young players traded for vets... That is crazy you would think they would do that.

[rjv]

No way it's happening. So you think after getting Wemby we're going to use let's say like a number four five draft pick on his son who isn't that good so we can get his dad who's about to retire. So you think he's going to mentor our young players, when in fact he hates young players, and then would just want every single one of our young players traded for vets... That is crazy you would think they would do that.


not to mention that bronny has yet to play for USC this year and has been diagnosed with a congenital heart condition.

[scott]

No way it's happening. So you think after getting Wemby we're going to use let's say like a number four five draft pick on his son who isn't that good so we can get his dad who's about to retire. So you think he's going to mentor our young players, when in fact he hates young players, and then would just want every single one of our young players traded for vets... That is crazy you would think they would do that.

Might be able to get Bronny with a SRP, tbh

[scott]

According to Zach Lowe's latest article: due to Keldon's reduced role this year, "Other teams are keeping an eye on [Keldon Johnson]."

We really do need to move Keldon as he just jams up the rotation, which he really isn't good enough for. Hopefully some other team puts together the kind of offer that eventually gets their GM fired :lol

[The Truth #6]

I go back and forth on trading Keldon this year. In the summer to me it made more sense. I actually think he's improved this year to some degree. He still makes some horrible mistakes in crunch time, but his turnovers are way down, his shooting looks ok. He's driving well to the rim, is pretty much the only player in the team that can get to the rim. Not that this season matters much anymore anyway, but I'm on the fence about moving him. His contract is affordable. I don't see them dumping him. And I don't see them trading a future lottery pick until they see where it lands.

TL/DR: it's going to be a long winter.

[Splits]

No way it's happening. So you think after getting Wemby we're going to use let's say like a number four five draft pick on his son who isn't that good so we can get his dad who's about to retire. So you think he's going to mentor our young players, when in fact he hates young players, and then would just want every single one of our young players traded for vets... That is crazy you would think they would do that.

I'm not advocating. I think it is a horrible idea. But that Toronto pick is dropping in the 20s and Pop loves him some LBJ. It is well known wherever Bronny goes, his daddy follows.

[TD 21]

Time to mention my pipe dream yet again: Keldon and picks for Garland who's not a great fit next to Mitchell.

Mitchell is unlikely to extend, which means he's likely to be traded this off season and Garland isn't going anywhere.

[LeBowen]

Mitchell is unlikely to extend, which means he's likely to be traded this off season and Garland isn't going anywhere.

Missed that one, makes sense.
Two of them can't co-exist, nice to know Cavs are smart enough to go with Garland.
Oh well, time to find a new pipe dream.

[The Truth #6]

I'm not advocating. I think it is a horrible idea. But that Toronto pick is dropping in the 20s and Pop loves him some LBJ. It is well known wherever Bronny goes, his daddy follows.

Fair enough. Screwing the Lakers would be the one possible factor but I think they've mellowed on the Lakers stuff. I think other teams will be more eager than us to go the Bronny route. Cuban would love to do something stupid like that with a high pick.

[scott]

My guess is that LeBron wouldn't actually follow Bronny in many situations. San Antonio might have a very minute leg up specifically because of Pop and Wemby, but in normal circumstances I'd say that if Bronny got picked by SAS, POR, OKC (non glamour markets), I think LeBron would be rethinking his prior comments about playing with his son.

[TD 21]

Fischer: "LaVine also has an eye on joining the Spurs" How the Bulls' situation with Zach LaVine is taking shape (yahoo.com) (https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html)


The Spurs almost certainly won't have interest nor should they. Vassell is younger, cheaper and will probably end up better.

[scott]

Fischer: "LaVine also has an eye on joining the Spurs" How the Bulls' situation with Zach LaVine is taking shape (yahoo.com) (https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html)


The Spurs almost certainly won't have interest nor should they. Vassell is younger, cheaper and will probably end up better.

The main (positive, IMO) takeaway from this is that we are hearing increasing levels of chatter about the Spurs when higher-end talent gets discussed on the trade market (like with Dame). Obviously we benefit greatly by being a destination that players are open to.

If there was evidence LaVine could stay healthy (which there isn't) I don't think he'd be a bad fit next to Vassell and a real point guard. Alas, he can't stay healthy so it's really not worth discussing (so, watch it happen now).

[objective]

However unlikely Cleveland trading Garland might be, it's probably worth noting that he's having a terrible season for him.

4.8 turnovers a game, shooting 28% from 3. Those are Zach Collins numbers. Probably just as bad a rim protector.

Assist % way down, TO% way up.

He would still be a big upgrade on the Spurs though

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Fischer: "LaVine also has an eye on joining the Spurs" How the Bulls' situation with Zach LaVine is taking shape (yahoo.com) (https://sports.yahoo.com/how-the-bulls-situation-with-zach-lavine-is-taking-shape-211644393.html)


The Spurs almost certainly won't have interest nor should they. Vassell is younger, cheaper and will probably end up better.
He is a 40% 3 point shooter though, and a capable defender from what I saw in the Olympics. Pop did sing his praises for being coachable iirc… honestly I’d easily trade keldon and some other bench scrubs and 2nd round picks for him. He should be more than capable of throwing a fucking entry pass or lob than the other morons on this team

[BacktoBasics]

The main (positive, IMO) takeaway from this is that we are hearing increasing levels of chatter about the Spurs when higher-end talent gets discussed on the trade market (like with Dame). Obviously we benefit greatly by being a destination that players are open to.

If there was evidence LaVine could stay healthy (which there isn't) I don't think he'd be a bad fit next to Vassell and a real point guard. Alas, he can't stay healthy so it's really not worth discussing (so, watch it happen now).
LaVine and Vassell can definitely coexist and it would probably be one of the few trades I’d be fine packaging Keldon with.

But yeah, he’s rarely healthy. There’s always something and he’s only 27 I think.

He would be an offensive fit for us.

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs could just play LaVine at PG tbh, but he ain‘t coming here. Pop will play Sochan at point til the offseason.

Besides we already have a Zach on the team. Pop would probably not be able to differentiate between the 2 and play Collins at PG and LaVine at Center. Let alone our high IQ players, who would also mess up and pass to the wrong Zach while turning it over. Recipe for disaster

[Seventyniner]

However unlikely Cleveland trading Garland might be, it's probably worth noting that he's having a terrible season for him.

4.8 turnovers a game, shooting 28% from 3. Those are Zach Collins numbers. Probably just as bad a rim protector.

Assist % way down, TO% way up.

He would still be a big upgrade on the Spurs though

:lol

[baseline bum]

Mark my words: we're going to draft Bronny just to lure LBJ to come mentor the team in his final 1-2 seasons. Book it.

LeBron's not turning down his $51 million option and Bronny probably isn't going to make the NBA. No way in hell he's a one and done.

[TheBallsbreakers]

And... here we go.

[Mnky]

Lavine would be a great pickup for Wemby. Relief from teams game planning just him would be nice. Lavine also has a great mindset. If you haven't, you should go read his interview about team usa when he was with Pop and vice versa with Pop applauding him. He wants to be known for his defense in the league, and he wants to be coached. I honestly think Pop could help take him to the next level. Lavine has more to show than he has. He's 28, still has plenty of ball left in him and taking a lead guard role with options like vassell and wemby could also sustain a longer productive career. Those guys thrive playing off ball and lavines ability to gravitate the defense would open up so much for their off ball movement.


I'm all for another high draft pick and securing a shot at Collier this year but Lavine is a legitimate player with the right mindset.
I'd take him without thinking twice. Keldon isnt the problem but moving Keldon helps the team. He just doesn't fit those around him in the starting lineup.
With that being said, I don't think there's a high chance of it happening, unless everyone just has nothing to offer the bulls and Spurs can buy low.

[exstatic]

Lavine would be a great pickup for Wemby. Relief from teams game planning just him would be nice. Lavine also has a great mindset. If you haven't, you should go read his interview about team usa when he was with Pop and vice versa with Pop applauding him. He wants to be known for his defense in the league, and he wants to be coached. I honestly think Pop could help take him to the next level. Lavine has more to show than he has. He's 28, still has plenty of ball left in him and taking a lead guard role with options like vassell and wemby could also sustain a longer productive career. Those guys thrive playing off ball and lavines ability to gravitate the defense would open up so much for their off ball movement.


I'm all for another high draft pick and securing a shot at Collier this year but Lavine is a legitimate player with the right mindset.
I'd take him without thinking twice. Keldon isnt the problem but moving Keldon helps the team. He just doesn't fit those around him in the starting lineup.
With that being said, I don't think there's a high chance of it happening, unless everyone just has nothing to offer the bulls and Spurs can buy low.

Lavine hasn’t been right for two years, since he played through a knee injury in his contract year. His defense has fallen off a cliff, and that’s not what we need.

[Barfunk]

Lavine is not Spurs material tbqfhwy

[Obstructed_View]

Lol Zach Latrine wants to go to a winning team, but also wants to go to the Spurs. Stop me if you've heard this one. :lol

I'd prefer to see if the Spurs have anything that will get that pick away from the Warriors. Well, I'd prefer a lot of things before Lavine.

[baseline bum]

The main (positive, IMO) takeaway from this is that we are hearing increasing levels of chatter about the Spurs when higher-end talent gets discussed on the trade market (like with Dame). Obviously we benefit greatly by being a destination that players are open to.

If there was evidence LaVine could stay healthy (which there isn't) I don't think he'd be a bad fit next to Vassell and a real point guard. Alas, he can't stay healthy so it's really not worth discussing (so, watch it happen now).

No no no, Lavine and Vassell would form a platoon at SG since they can each play half a season.

[Obstructed_View]

No no no, Lavine and Vassell would form a platoon at SG since they can each play half a season.
What a bargain!

[R. DeMurre]

LaVine is another DeRozan-- he puts up numbers, but generally the teams he's on actually play better when he's off the court. In his 10 seasons, his on/off +/- has been in the negative 8 times. That's not what I want from a guy getting paid $40+mil/yr.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lavinza01.html

[TD 21]

The main (positive, IMO) takeaway from this is that we are hearing increasing levels of chatter about the Spurs when higher-end talent gets discussed on the trade market (like with Dame). Obviously we benefit greatly by being a destination that players are open to.

If there was evidence LaVine could stay healthy (which there isn't) I don't think he'd be a bad fit next to Vassell and a real point guard. Alas, he can't stay healthy so it's really not worth discussing (so, watch it happen now).

:tu

Unless the PG is forward sized (and not named Sochan), that's too weak physically and defensively on the wings.



He is a 40% 3 point shooter though, and a capable defender from what I saw in the Olympics. Pop did sing his praises for being coachable iirc… honestly I’d easily trade keldon and some other bench scrubs and 2nd round picks for him. He should be more than capable of throwing a fucking entry pass or lob than the other morons on this team

He's a poor defender, known for being inattentive off ball.

It'll be a half salary dump type trade, but they should still be able to at least get one 1st that projects as decent.

He's also a sub par play maker with selfish tendencies.

[scott]

:tu

Unless the PG is forward sized (and not named Sochan), that's too weak physically and defensively on the wings.




He's a poor defender, known for being inattentive off ball.

It'll be a half salary dump type trade, but they should still be able to at least get one 1st that projects as decent.

He's also a sub par play maker with selfish tendencies.

I'm not suggesting it is all realistic or achievable, but something like Cunningham-Lavine-Vassell is what I would imagine as the idea way to make something like that work. Alas, I appreciate the Spurs being mentioned in higher end trade rumors, but this one just doesn't quite fit (and, as previously mentioned, dude can't stay healthy)

[Mnky]

Lavine hasn’t been right for two years, since he played through a knee injury in his contract year. His defense has fallen off a cliff, and that’s not what we need.

Honestly think that's due to his program. He's capable of being a good defender, he showed it with Pop and a willingness to be coached to it. His injury issues are definitely a concern but he wouldn't be hero balling 50 shots with the spurs. Another thing I think would help him be more efficient. The spurs have actual off ball players who would give him so many outs. Once again, don't think it's a high chance at all of happening but would not be the worse thing for sure. People haven't seen his interviews if they think he's not a spurs type.

As far as defense, he's not exactly surrounded by defense minded players and coaches since they lost Ball. Before they lost Ball, they were one of the better looking teams in the league on both sides. Think people forget that part.

[exstatic]

Honestly think that's due to his program. He's capable of being a good defender, he showed it with Pop and a willingness to be coached to it. His injury issues are definitely a concern but he wouldn't be hero balling 50 shots with the spurs. Another thing I think would help him be more efficient. The spurs have actual off ball players who would give him so many outs. Once again, don't think it's a high chance at all of happening but would not be the worse thing for sure. People haven't seen his interviews if they think he's not a spurs type.

As far as defense, he's not exactly surrounded by defense minded players and coaches since they lost Ball. Before they lost Ball, they were one of the better looking teams in the league on both sides. Think people forget that part.

Chicago actually had a really good defense the year that DeRozan got there, right up until Lavine injured his knee.

Regarding Team USA, it’s much easier to sell out on defense when you know it’s only for a matter of weeks.

[BacktoBasics]

I think Chicago would gut anyone wanting LaVine. I bet their starting point would be Keldon and Vassell plus 2 number 1 picks and 2 pick swaps.

I don’t think anyone here is going to value LaVine like Chicago will. Moving him will become the core of their rebuild.

[exstatic]

I think Chicago would gut anyone wanting LaVine. I bet their starting point would be Keldon and Vassell plus 2 number 1 picks and 2 pick swaps.

I don’t think anyone here is going to value LaVine like Chicago will. Moving him will become the core of their rebuild.

I think within the article it was stated that they had been watching all of the other major trades go down before wanting in on the action, paraphrased.

[TD 21]

I'm not suggesting it is all realistic or achievable, but something like Cunningham-Lavine-Vassell is what I would imagine as the idea way to make something like that work. Alas, I appreciate the Spurs being mentioned in higher end trade rumors, but this one just doesn't quite fit (and, as previously mentioned, dude can't stay healthy)

Yeah, that's my point. Good luck getting that archetype.

I'd rather Ivey than LaVine. Sample size is only 186 minutes, but the former is averaging 11/3/3 in 20 mpg on 50/39/77 shooting splits (59efg% and 63ts%), 60% on drives and 71% total at rim, 47% on c&s 3's and "only" has a -2.4 net rtg (3rd best on team).

He's starting today, so maybe they're coming to their senses.

[BacktoBasics]

I think within the article it was stated that they had been watching all of the other major trades go down before wanting in on the action, paraphrased.

Yeah I don’t think they’ll get a massive haul for LaVine. They’ll ask for it but it’s hard to say what he’ll really bring. Who outside of OKC has a stockpile of assets for him? I’m not sold he’ll be easily moved.

I wouldn’t give 2 firsts and two pick swaps plus Keldon and if I’m Chicago I demand Vassell over Keldon.

But if a first and a swap plus Keldon gets it done I’m in.

[John B]

Yeah I don’t think they’ll get a massive haul for LaVine. They’ll ask for it but it’s hard to say what he’ll really bring. Who outside of OKC has a stockpile of assets for him? I’m not sold he’ll be easily moved.

I wouldn’t give 2 firsts and two pick swaps plus Keldon and if I’m Chicago I demand Vassell over Keldon.

But if a first and a swap plus Keldon gets it done I’m in.

I’d rather they use that for a true PG like Sexton tbh.

[scott]

Lavine is interesting because while the Bulls might want a massive return for him, his health is question and his contract is a negative. Like BackToBasics mentioned, it’s like a whole lot of teams have a war chest of extra assets to trade for him. Honestly, if Chicago could convince a team like SA to do Lavine for Vassell straight up (or Lavine for Jalen Williams if you are OKC), that would be a huge win for them - but I doubt SA or OKC are interested in that deal.

If I’m the Spurs, if Chicago really wanted Vassell in exchange for Lavine, CHI would be the one having to attach assets, not SA.

With that said, Vassell is starting to look like a China Doll himself so maybe that’s a bad example.

I’ll do Keldon + CHI’s pick back, but that’s about it.

[exstatic]

I’d rather they use that for a true PG like Sexton tbh.

It’s funny that people think that because he’s 6’1” Sexton is a PG, and because he’s 6’9” Sochan isn’t.

[scott]

It’s funny that people think that because he’s 6’1” Sexton is a PG, and because he’s 6’9” Sochan isn’t.

It’s not Sochan’s height that has people doubting Sochan as a PG.

[John B]

It’s funny that people think that because he’s 6’1” Sexton is a PG, and because he’s 6’9” Sochan isn’t.

Jeremy’s height has nothing to do with it. Magic was arguably the best PG ever and was 6’9. I’m not convinced that Pop is necessarily making Sochan a PG but developing him as a passing big ala Boris, while they wait for Wemby. But I was arguing against getting Levine and instead get a true PG, if they were to trade Keldon plus picks.

[baseline bum]

Between Lavine's contract and him being a China doll I don't expect Chicago to get much back for him. Maybe a first, an expiring, and a rotation player. I'd rather throw $45 million a season at OG Anunoby in the summer than $45 million a season at Lavine plus giving up assets.

[BacktoBasics]

I’d rather they use that for a true PG like Sexton tbh.

I don’t hate Sexton like most people do but he’s got no defense and he lacks some consistency. I’d be more interested in Schroeder if they decide to look at second tier options.

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s funny that people think that because he’s 6’1” Sexton is a PG, and because he’s 6’9” Sochan isn’t.

it's funny that you think height is why people are saying that

[Vince Carter's ankle]

I’d rather they use that for a true PG like Sexton tbh.
Sexton is inconsistent low bbiq undersized combo guard
not true pg

[exstatic]

Jeremy’s height has nothing to do with it. Magic was arguably the best PG ever and was 6’9. I’m not convinced that Pop is necessarily making Sochan a PG but developing him as a passing big ala Boris, while they wait for Wemby. But I was arguing against getting Levine and instead get a true PG, if they were to trade Keldon plus picks.


Sexton is inconsistent low bbiq undersized combo guard
not true pg

[TD 21]

A variation of my fake Ivey trade . . .

Hawks receive: McDermott or Osman, Graham, Hornets 1st (via Spurs)

Pistons receive: Hunter, Raptors 1st (via Spurs)

Spurs receive: Ivey, Mills, Gallinari (to be waived)

Wizards receive: Wiseman