Biggest needs for the future?

[SpursBills]

9 games into the season and the Spurs are sitting at 3-6 with one of the worst point differentials in the league. I think it's very likely that the Spurs get another high lottery pick in next year's draft as it's becoming increasingly clear that this is another development year to experiment. With that said, what are our biggest needs moving forward, and what does this team ideally look like in 3-4 years?

I think most people would agree that we need a primary initiator / offensive engine moving forward and with multiple guards available at the top of the lottery in next year's draft, that's who the Spurs will target. It's still early, but guys like Topic, Collier, Castle, Proctor, Wagner among others will all most likely be available. What are your 2-3 priorities for this position if you had to choose? Do you value positional size, 3 point shooting, rim pressure, passing creativity, point of attack defense, low turnovers, etc. I personally prioritize positional size and rim pressure if I have to choose.

The second big question is what does Wemby's eventual front court partner look like? Do the Spurs continue to use a traditional center or does Wemby slide to the 5 in 3 years> I do think that despite his current struggles Sochan partners well with Wemby as a hopefully reasonable cost versatile defender/playmaker/cutter if he slides into the 4 position. However in order for this to work the Spurs need to end up with a long, rangy 3 and D wing with size who can help on the boards and defend at the point of attack, but who is limited with regards to self-creation so as not to break the bank, basically a Jaden McDaniels type. Maybe Risacher can fill that role in the draft, or a current under-the-radar wing.

If you squint hard enough, you can see the outline for a team with T-wolves style and level of defense and better offense. It will be interesting how the front office elects to proceed moving forward.

[scott]

Biggest need is just an overall upgrade of the talent level.

Wemby is obviously truly untouchable.

Vassell is almost untouchable and secure, but for the right move could be expendable.

Every other player is someone who the Spurs should be looking to upgrade as time rolls on. My guess is that by Wemby’s first extension, this roster will look very very different.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Yep best available talent

[NASpurs]

Better coach

[Fizziksman]

BPA

[TimmyBuckets]

Really talented PG and talented athletic center.

[tbdog]

Overall need better passing. We don't have many players who are willing passes. Our second unit has Jonese, everyone else are not willing passes. Our starting 5 is pretty low on passing. Collins is above avg center passer. Wemby and Sochan not their yet. Vassell absolutely not. Johnson has moments of good passing games.

[BackHome]

Best player but if close you take the best PG/SF/C if all things equal

[onechance87]

A good pg who can pass and shoot

[vander]

Spoelstra

[Mugen]

High IQ players and a coach that's a better fit tbh.

[Barfunk]

It's just all over the place. Pop needs to rise to the occasion. They say you're the best coach of all time? FUCKING PROVE IT.

[rankingtear]

Another wing. Wemby would improve at some point that he would generate his own looks, i am pretty sure of this.

[sfernald]

We need an older, more seasoned coach and younger, more raw players!

[DAF86]

All-star level PG.
Shooting in every position.

[DAF86]

Best player but if close you take the best PG/SF/C if all things equal

We already have the best C moving forward. Stop it with the "Wemby isn't a C" narrative. Even if Wemby doesn't play C on defense, he will be the C on offense, once Pop stops fucking around.

[Thomas82]

Yep best available talent

At this point, hopefully it's Alexandre Sarr in this upcoming draft.

[onechance87]

All-star level PG.
Shooting in every position.

gotta be topic...pick and roll guard with wemby is what we need....Or a top defensive center

[spursparker9]

Point God CP3 to form lob city v2.0 with Wemby

[KobesAchilles]

Getting rid of KJ as a starter… or just in general

[Raven]

bpa

[spurraider21]

Halliburton at pg and Jaden mcdaniels at sf

[MultiTroll]

Ownership to grow balls and demand competence from coaching staff.

[BackHome]

Ownership is rolling in the $$$$ after Pop tanked and got us Wemby so short term they love the man

[Sentenza]

i have here : https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302814&goto=newpost

[MultiTroll]

Ownership is rolling in the $$$$ after Pop tanked and got us Wemby so short term they love the man
Oh great we're the Lakers now.

[lefty]

Spoelstra

[Fusternino]

Doesn't this team begin to run out of cap space pretty quickly after this upcoming off-season? Unless Graham can be waived and stretched.

[LeBowen]

Doesn't this team begin to run out of cap space pretty quickly after this upcoming off-season? Unless Graham can be waived and stretched.

I don't see how?
Doug is in his final year, will probably get moved before the deadline. $13.7M
Bullock got waived, also in final year. $11M
Same goes for Birch and Payne. $13.5M combined.
Osman is in his final year. $6.7M.
Mamu has $2M.

That's ~47M off the books.
Devin and Collins new deals will start, ~30M increase combined.

And apparently Graham has only $2.8M guaranteed for the next season.

[offset formation]

Really talented PG and talented athletic center.

Like Sengun?

I'll never stop being mad about that. He was ours but PATFO thought themselves brilliant and thought they had a replacement for nephew. And we know how that turned out.

[LeBowen]

Like Sengun?

I'll never stop being mad about that. He was ours but PATFO thought themselves brilliant and thought they had a replacement for nephew. And we know how that turned out.

If we had Sengun or Haliburton, we would've had worse odds for Wemby.
We got beyond extremely lucky in getting another all-time great potential and it's pointless to look back to what happened before 2023 lottery.

Wemby has already proven that he'll unquestionably be an MVP level player in a few years and Devin also looks great.
Spurs have second most assets in the league after OKC and a ton of cap space.
It's up to PATFO to build a team around those two.

[PrimeMinister]

knock down shooters who arent traffic cones on defense and a star offensive player who can slash and get to the rim consistently

1 and 2 offensive options are there...need to find the complementary third guy and stack role players who will execute team defensive concepts well and hit open shots as a release valve

[CGD]

Agree on a PG but also need to have a secondary ball handler/creator at one of the SG/SF positions. One of the jumps Vassell was supposed to take this year was to be more of a shot creator, but so far that’s been disappointing there even as awesome as other parts of his offensive game have looked.

I love Keldon’s heart and energy so much, but the best version of him is a supersub on a top flight team. That position needs to be upgraded, with Sochan or otherwise. It weird to say because he’s so young, but I think we’ll learn at the end of this season that he’s not really on the “timeline” anymore.

I think Zach at center is quite good actually, at least for the next two years after which i think we’ll see VW there full time.

[z0sa]

Very young season, very early in Wemby's career. The only NEED is to keep Wemby happy. The wants and our current situ as I see it:

- Wemby is a legit #1, provided he brings his conditioning and effort on every play up. As a 19 year old rookie, I believe he definitely will, and hopefully sooner than later (by his 2nd season).

- Vassell I feel is more of a Parker role. IE can score in bunches and set the tone/shoulder regular season burden, but is more easily locked down in late games. Obviously very early and we've never even had a single playoff game with this group, but that's where I see his potential being - a consistent scorer who's actually more of a 3rd option late in games for big shots rather than the primary ball-handler.

- That leaves us needing some type of Manu style closer who can control the ball and get us (IE Wemby) big plays - including easy buckets and steals - when we need them. Vassell and Manu are more similar than Vassell and Parker form a player profile standpoint, I get it, just to throw that out there. but I don't see them having similar impacts on a contending team. considering Manu had ultra-elite court vision (including on defense for timely rotations/steals) and Vassell - at least at this point - absolutely doesn't compare in that regard. He's a good scorer but that's it at the moment. Manu would be threading the needle constantly to Wemby, with sometimes tragic results but still ...

So that kind of DOES push me towards us needing an elite wing or PG. We're obviously lacking in the PG department, no offense to Jeremy or Tre Jones, who can be fantastic players in their own right, so I lean that direction. But what about Keldon? Where does he fit in the picture? I think, at this moment, he's probably the most likely one to be traded (from a layman's standpoint who doesn't keep up with the financial side much). He's got value and could be a great player on a team who just wants butts in seats. He's got the crowdpleaser in him, but I'd rather Vassell since he seems the more complete and mentally locked in player. That said, KJ's steal from Durant gives me more of Manu vibes ... damn, hard to say really. I just think the "position" we need is a Manu-style player.

TLDR; I'd go with elite PG, but any wing who can control the ball and get us easy buckets/timely defensive plays.

[BatManu20]

1. Starting PG
2. New Head Coach
3. Defensive big to pair with Wemby

This is the way.

[MultiTroll]

1. Starting PG
2. New Head Coach
3. Defensive big to pair with Wemby

This is the way.
Is there any chance in this universe that mister:
"I'll retire when Duncan retires"

Would leave this contract early?
I don't mean a DUI car crash or some serious health problem, i mean a super pleasant but equally shocking "I'm just going to hand it over to a coach who would be more effective. Thank you."

[offset formation]

If we had Sengun or Haliburton, we would've had worse odds for Wemby.
We got beyond extremely lucky in getting another all-time great potential and it's pointless to look back to what happened before 2023 lottery.

Wemby has already proven that he'll unquestionably be an MVP level player in a few years and Devin also looks great.
Spurs have second most assets in the league after OKC and a ton of cap space.
It's up to PATFO to build a team around those two.

Maybe, maybe not. Sengun is just starting to round into a full time stud. Haliburton wouldn't have had shooters to pass to.

We may or may not have been in the same position with either one of those guys but it is clear as day they both would have made Wemby better than he already is and will be.

Something and more likely, someone is lacking somewhere defensively year after year.

Just think, as I noted above, we secured the #1 spot for worst defensive rating in the history of the NBA last season. We're firmly entrenched near the bottom again this year at #2, just above the Wizards at 124.9. And that's WITH WEMBANYAMA actually putting up a Defensive Rating about 17 points better than our overall team when he's on the floor, which means we are actually playing WORSE defense, maybe far worse defense, than last year's all time worst team when Wemby isn't on the floor.

And we again lead the NBA in point differential at nearly -12.

So again I say, something is broken in our coaching, scouting, or development ranks. And I am not as sure as you one of those other players would have kept us out of the Wemby sweepstakes.

[r0drig0lac]

three all stars

[couchman]

Team isn’t good enough to pass on the best player available but there’s no doubt that we need an offensive initiator, preferably a PG but they could be a SG or SF.
We also need to consider defensive ability

[BackHome]

Yeah, the other thing I would like is someone who can rebound who likes to play defense just as much as they like to shoot the ball. When looking at building team you only got so many touches and Wemby and Vassell are going to want their fair share.

[RC_Drunkford]

1. new coach
2. All-Star level PG
3. C who‘s a real rim protector

[TimmyBuckets]

Like Sengun?

I'll never stop being mad about that. He was ours but PATFO thought themselves brilliant and thought they had a replacement for nephew. And we know how that turned out.

I’m done with the past because if we got sengun or kept white or dj, etc we wouldn’t have Wemby. Just a bunch of coulda, shoulda, eastwooda. I think Bill Simmons said Donovan Mitchell was unhappy on cavs. Someone like that or someone like a jaden hardy or even a Zach Levine. The thing is even if we trade for someone like that we still need to check the draft for solid PGs and Centers. This team isn’t making playoffs unless a miracle happens so drafting is the way to go.

[Chinook]

They need a down-hill iso scorer from the perimeter who is willing to move the ball. They don't have to be the point-guard of the team, but they need someone who can break down a defense and add vertical spacing while not letting the ball stick. For an example, think Dinwiddie.

They need a perimeter defender who can hold up at the point of attack so Wemby isn't put into position to overhelp from bad position. It would be great if this defender was also a good offensive player. Think OG.

A stretch goal would be a junk-drawer forward off the bench who can do a little bit of everything (defend, shoot, rebound, get their own), even if they aren't elite at any of it. I think of the Morris twins when I think of that, thought there are usually a generous handful of them in the league at any given time. Sochan himself may wind up being one of those players, and it'd be a nice path for Cissoko to take as well.

[exstatic]

It's just all over the place. Pop needs to rise to the occasion. They say you're the best coach of all time? FUCKING PROVE IT.

He’s already told you what the plan for the year is, yet you insist on throwing yourself on the ground, and throwing a tantrum like a 2 year old. He’s not going to change course this season, so if it’s this upsetting to you,you should probably just checkout, and check back in at draft time,

[ambchang]

A Time Machine to go back so we can redo everything the way basketball geniuses on spurs talk say we should’ve done it

[poopbox]

1. New coach. Pop is an outdated dinosaur. His strategies and rotations don't work for modern basketball. We are winning nothing with him as the primary coach standing on the sideline.

2. Anybody but Sochan at the point guard. Doesn't need to be a star. Doesn't need to be great. He just needs to not be Sochan. Like just somebody who is a little better than tre jones.

3. Wemby at the 5 so Sochan can play at the 4. Wemby, Sochan, and Devin are the future of this team. For as bad as Sochan is at point he has been really good as a short roller power forward who keeps teams off balance with his shot selection and passing. It also helps tremendously that on those situations his passing options are a giant man who can dunk from outside the restricted zone and a dead eye shooter guard. When we actually start playing Wemby at the 5 with Sochan at the 4 and Devin at the 2 this team is going to take a tremendously leap. But we can't do this, number 3, until we do number 1, cause Pop isn't the coach to figure this simple concept out.

[TD 21]

I'd value positional size and 3-point shooting above all else and I believe the Spurs will too (look no further than what they were trying to do with Primo). The former at least gives one a chance to avoid being a physical liability defensively and the latter helps open up driving lanes to make it easier to get to the rim.

Proctor and Risacher look like the central casting Spurs.

Collins and Sochan (once this PG nonsense is over with) will probably be the primary front court partners for Wembanyama for the foreseeable future, with the hope being that Collins eventually becomes what so many centers were post Robinson next to Duncan: 20ish mpg placeholders, who rarely closed.

[offset formation]

A Time Machine to go back so we can redo everything the way basketball geniuses on spurs talk say we should’ve done it

Not sure at whom this is directed but me and a bunch of others called Sengun on this board based upon our draft position. It was clear. I was higher on Vassell than Haliburton and the judge will stay out on that one for a while longer.

PATFO took a different approach and it cost us. It's not meant as anything other than to demonstrate that the highly regarded draft gurus in PATFO central aren't infallible either.

[Jordan Jackson]

They need to fix that defense. I don’t think this cast of characters- minus Wemby - will ever play anything close to passable defense. Size, quickness and IQ on the perimeter needed.

Certain players are getting targeted by opposing teams frequently on defense. It’s a lot to ask Wemby to cover for them. NBA offenses are just too good these days - there is nowhere to hide bad defenders anymore.

They also might want to address their 3pt shooting. It’s 2023 like wtf already.

[Thomas82]

Either Alexandre Sarr or one of the point guards.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Very young season, very early in Wemby's career. The only NEED is to keep Wemby happy. The wants and our current situ as I see it:

- Wemby is a legit #1, provided he brings his conditioning and effort on every play up. As a 19 year old rookie, I believe he definitely will, and hopefully sooner than later (by his 2nd season).

- Vassell I feel is more of a Parker role. IE can score in bunches and set the tone/shoulder regular season burden, but is more easily locked down in late games. Obviously very early and we've never even had a single playoff game with this group, but that's where I see his potential being - a consistent scorer who's actually more of a 3rd option late in games for big shots rather than the primary ball-handler.

- That leaves us needing some type of Manu style closer who can control the ball and get us (IE Wemby) big plays - including easy buckets and steals - when we need them. Vassell and Manu are more similar than Vassell and Parker form a player profile standpoint, I get it, just to throw that out there. but I don't see them having similar impacts on a contending team. considering Manu had ultra-elite court vision (including on defense for timely rotations/steals) and Vassell - at least at this point - absolutely doesn't compare in that regard. He's a good scorer but that's it at the moment. Manu would be threading the needle constantly to Wemby, with sometimes tragic results but still ...

So that kind of DOES push me towards us needing an elite wing or PG. We're obviously lacking in the PG department, no offense to Jeremy or Tre Jones, who can be fantastic players in their own right, so I lean that direction. But what about Keldon? Where does he fit in the picture? I think, at this moment, he's probably the most likely one to be traded (from a layman's standpoint who doesn't keep up with the financial side much). He's got value and could be a great player on a team who just wants butts in seats. He's got the crowdpleaser in him, but I'd rather Vassell since he seems the more complete and mentally locked in player. That said, KJ's steal from Durant gives me more of Manu vibes ... damn, hard to say really. I just think the "position" we need is a Manu-style player.

TLDR; I'd go with elite PG, but any wing who can control the ball and get us easy buckets/timely defensive plays.
there is no need to compare modern players with former Spurs

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Like Sengun?

I'll never stop being mad about that. He was ours but PATFO thought themselves brilliant and thought they had a replacement for nephew. And we know how that turned out.
> athletic center
> Sengun
> spurs def problems
> Sengun

[z0sa]

there is no need to compare modern players with former Spurs

huh? Every spurs team post-Duncan that wants to contend will be compared with those teams... it's not only natural, it's logical since Pop is still the coach. We understand the plays, and players, he prefers. Oh, 2022 join date. Gotcha

[Fireball]

we need a real PG who can also shoot 40% from three ...

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Every spurs team post-Duncan that wants to contend will be compared with those teams...
what does the current team have to do with this?


it's not only natural, it's logical since Pop is still the coach. We understand the plays, and players, he prefers.
there is not a single player on the team that resembles one of the big three
these are completely different players not only in terms of their level of play, but also in their skill set
you can start watching non-spurs basketball if you want to make some comparisons between players

[exstatic]

> athletic center
> Sengun
> spurs def problems
> Sengun

He’s a lead footed 6’9” center who can’t defend his position, or one down. He has a nice post up game, and a good mid range jumper, but the suicide watch that some are on because we didn’t draft him is baffling. We need defense above all else, and he provides ZERO.

[offset formation]

He’s a lead footed 6’9” center who can’t defend his position, or one down. He has a nice post up game, and a good mid range jumper, but the suicide watch that some are on because we didn’t draft him is baffling. We need defense above all else, and he provides ZERO.

Lead footed? Sure about that? He's playing better personally than our team Defensive Rating by 18 points. And almost 10 points above the Rockets team Defensive Rating 116.5

Alperun Sengun Defensive Rating = 107
Victor Wembanyama Defensive Rating = 107.9 (as of 5 days ago)

Just for comparison sakes, Zach Collins currently sits at 119.7

Remember a couple months ago when I took something regarding the Lakers record at the end of last season and it was not as clear cut as I thought? Well, you just did the same thing.

He's everything we could have used on this team. Fantastic court vision, with superior passing. Crafty. Good shooter. And increasingly, getting good defensively under Ime's tutelage and scheme.

So yeah, put me on suicide watch if you so choose because we're watching a potential all-star's career develop when we had the chance to but decided upon a flasher. That should put you on suicide watch too

[Pauleta14]

We need a couple experienced veterans (surprised at how Spurs FO underrate what they bring to a team)

Too many youngsters

[JeffDuncan]

The Spurs need a starting point guard, blatantly. This is the most glaring duh in the entire NBA.

Tre Jones is an adequate backup (and ought to be starting in this situation.) Sochan is not adequate in any respect; he does not have any of the skills an NBA point guard needs.

An NBA point guard has adept dribbling skill, passing skill, good game management, the ability to read a defense and identify options very quickly, and so on. And that’s just the fundamentals. An outstanding point guard adds defensive ability and shooting, as well. The Spurs need such a critter. He doesn’t have to be an all star, but he has to be able to do the fundamental things a point guard does, at least.

It isn’t easy to find an NBA level point guard. That’s why they’re paid millions. But it’s possible. Almost all the NBA teams manage to do it, every year.

Then, about that trashy defense. To have a better defense the Spurs need to replace Keldon Johnson. He lacks defensive IQ and his deficiency doesn’t seem to be curable, for one thing. More could be said. Sochan can’t simply replace Keldon because Sochan doesn’t shoot well enough and score well enough, not yet anyway. If Sochan wasn’t starting at pg he’d have to go to the bench.

That wouldn’t be the worst outcome, because the bench is weak. It’s hardly surprising for such a young team. In the T-wolves game, their starters and the Spurs starters tied (89 points each.) The difference in final score was from bench production.

The Spurs bench should improve through player development. Also, bench players are much more abundant and less expensive than starters, as we know. So improvement of the bench should be relatively easy, as compared to the starting lineup. Relatively easy.

So,

An NBA point guard of starter quality.

A significant improvement in Sochan’s ability to shoot and score, or, a new 3&D sf.

A better bench, through in-house development or minor moves, or both.

(I take the development of Wemby as the team’s highest priority. That should go without saying.)

Other stuff looks like lower priority. Vassell is fine. Collins is fine for now.

[TD 21]

He’s a lead footed 6’9” center who can’t defend his position, or one down. He has a nice post up game, and a good mid range jumper, but the suicide watch that some are on because we didn’t draft him is baffling. We need defense above all else, and he provides ZERO.

Sengun supposedly grew to 6'11'' in shoes over the off season.

[z0sa]

what does the current team have to do with this?


there is not a single player on the team that resembles one of the big three
these are completely different players not only in terms of their level of play, but also in their skill set
you can start watching non-spurs basketball if you want to make some comparisons between players

Thread title. Title contention in the future is the goal = leads into me comparing players on our current roster who could fit into roles that players from past title contenders played

Its a spurs forum, fuck off

[R. DeMurre]

The sample size is small, but look at what a difference a few vets have made in Houston to go along with their very young core. I don't see any top free agents coming up this summer that make sense for the Spurs (except for maybe Anunoby), so barring a blockbuster trade, I'd guess the main change will be adding inexpensive quality role players around the current core. The ones I like are Delon Wright & Alec Burks, both late bloomers with reliable positive impact, both low usage guys who won't demand huge contracts.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Thread title. Title contention in the future is the goal = leads into me comparing players on our current roster who could fit into roles that players from past title contenders played

Its a spurs forum, fuck off
there are no such players on this roster

[scott]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF

I would try to do this:

1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench

Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.

New Rotation:

Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu

[z0sa]

there are no such players on this roster

if you're so interested in my opinion on non spurs players, I see a vet like Spencer Dinwiddie perfectly attainable, right skillset and just what this team needs. Are you happy now? lol

[BacktoBasics]

The sample size is small, but look at what a difference a few vets have made in Houston to go along with their very young core. I don't see any top free agents coming up this summer that make sense for the Spurs (except for maybe Anunoby), so barring a blockbuster trade, I'd guess the main change will be adding inexpensive quality role players around the current core. The ones I like are Delon Wright & Alec Burks, both late bloomers with reliable positive impact, both low usage guys who won't demand huge contracts.

I get your point but this is a bad example. Look at what Houston has to pay for those vets. They’ll be in cap hell for a long time. Wrapped up in big contracts and have made their team a borderline playoff team but nowhere near contenders.

[BacktoBasics]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF

I would try to do this:

1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench

Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.

New Rotation:

Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu
As much as I’m interested in Ivey it’s a bit early to give up the production Keldon brings without adequately replacing it. Ivey can barely crack the rotation on a losing team. On paper the positional alignment looks better but I don’t see the production to justify your suggested Ivey trade.

[SpursBills]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF

I would try to do this:

1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench

Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.

New Rotation:

Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu

I think you're giving up a ton of perimeter positional size and defense with that lineup. Vassell has historically been much better guarding 1s and 2s rather than wings, Branham is atrocious on defense, and Ivey can't crack the piston's starting lineup despite being significantly better on offense than Killian Hayes exclusively because he can't defend. You're looking at a 2023-4 Bucks-level perimeter defense with that lineup with a fairly limited ceiling. I like the idea of moving Keldon away from the starting lineup, but I still believe that Sochan can do good things next to Wemby if used appropriately.

[SpursBills]

Lead footed? Sure about that? He's playing better personally than our team Defensive Rating by 18 points. And almost 10 points above the Rockets team Defensive Rating 116.5

Alperun Sengun Defensive Rating = 107
Victor Wembanyama Defensive Rating = 107.9 (as of 5 days ago)

Just for comparison sakes, Zach Collins currently sits at 119.7

Remember a couple months ago when I took something regarding the Lakers record at the end of last season and it was not as clear cut as I thought? Well, you just did the same thing.

He's everything we could have used on this team. Fantastic court vision, with superior passing. Crafty. Good shooter. And increasingly, getting good defensively under Ime's tutelage and scheme.

So yeah, put me on suicide watch if you so choose because we're watching a potential all-star's career develop when we had the chance to but decided upon a flasher. That should put you on suicide watch too

I agree with this. Huge miss by the front office. I'd rather not have sengun if it means we still get Wemby, but realistically moving forward Sengun is much better than Collins in many areas while his weaknesses aren't that much worse. In a vacuum not taking him was a huge mistake at the time, especially for Josh Primo of all people.

[R. DeMurre]

I get your point but this is a bad example. Look at what Houston has to pay for those vets. They’ll be in cap hell for a long time. Wrapped up in big contracts and have made their team a borderline playoff team but nowhere near contenders.


That's why I specifically named "inexpensive quality role players" who won't demand the salaries that VanVleet and Brooks did. Wright and Burks are both nonstarters. Neither would possibly demand the $40mil yearly salary that VanVleet does. Spurs might be able to get both for less than Brooks's yearly salary of about $20mil.

[SpursBills]

They need a down-hill iso scorer from the perimeter who is willing to move the ball. They don't have to be the point-guard of the team, but they need someone who can break down a defense and add vertical spacing while not letting the ball stick. For an example, think Dinwiddie.

They need a perimeter defender who can hold up at the point of attack so Wemby isn't put into position to overhelp from bad position. It would be great if this defender was also a good offensive player. Think OG.

A stretch goal would be a junk-drawer forward off the bench who can do a little bit of everything (defend, shoot, rebound, get their own), even if they aren't elite at any of it. I think of the Morris twins when I think of that, thought there are usually a generous handful of them in the league at any given time. Sochan himself may wind up being one of those players, and it'd be a nice path for Cissoko to take as well.

This is interesting - assuming they draft a lead guard in the next draft, would you advocate throwing a max or near max at OG over the summer based on what you've seen thus far? He does seem like exactly what they'd need.

[TD 21]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF

I would try to do this:

1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench

Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.

New Rotation:

Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu

Hypothetically speaking, if they acquired Ivey, it'd be to kill two birds with one stone: Get the potential lead guard they so desperately need and clear up the question of who'd move to the bench between Sochan and Johnson, once they do.

The league has moved back to valuing positional size.

I also think it'd take a better pick, like the Craptors one, for example, to entice the Pistons. Even then, they'd probably prefer to wait until the off season and the Spurs might prefer to wait until post draft too, even though they should be pushing now.

[JeffDuncan]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
…



Ok, depending for whom or what.



2) Move Sochan to the bench
…



Ok, depending on who else is available.



3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG
…



Ok.



4) Move Devin to SF
…



Get down on your hands and knees and look under the couch for where your brain rolled to when it fell out of your head.

Vassell is the SG, doing quite nicely, thank you.

When you find something that works:

Leave. It. Alone.

Geez louise.

[scott]

I think you're giving up a ton of perimeter positional size and defense with that lineup. Vassell has historically been much better guarding 1s and 2s rather than wings, Branham is atrocious on defense, and Ivey can't crack the piston's starting lineup despite being significantly better on offense than Killian Hayes exclusively because he can't defend. You're looking at a 2023-4 Bucks-level perimeter defense with that lineup with a fairly limited ceiling. I like the idea of moving Keldon away from the starting lineup, but I still believe that Sochan can do good things next to Wemby if used appropriately.

Vassell’s defense, at least statistically, has gotten progressively worse throughout his career (and this year is about equivalent to Branham), and he’s not the defensive stalwart that this website likes to imagine him.

Agreed on Bran, he’s in there largely because there literally is no one else and we need shooting. An alternative would be to bring in Champ or Cedi as the other wing. Cedi doesn’t offer any defensive upgrade either. Frankly, the guy we need there isn’t on the roster.

Largely the biggest problem to solve however is that Keldon just crowds up the rotation and he isn’t good enough to justify the mess he makes. I really like Keldon and hoped he’d be a huge part of our team going forward, but I just don’t see it.

[Chinook]

This is interesting - assuming they draft a lead guard in the next draft, would you advocate throwing a max or near max at OG over the summer based on what you've seen thus far? He does seem like exactly what they'd need.
I think the Spurs should see if they can't sneak in and grab OG during the deadline, especially if the price isn't much more than say Keldon and their pick back. That's both so that the Spurs would have way more options if they could go into the next season above the cap and use Bird rights and exceptions and because if OG walks, the Spurs would actually have a path toward a max slot if they could dump that salary. So its downside is not terrible, even if the top plan would obviously be to not lose the guy.

Yes, though, they need a top perimeter defender so that Wemby can actually shine. It would be nice for them to run good defenders at every other position, but their lack of competent perimeter D is sinking them. No matter what folks here want to say about Sochan, he has work to do to even be decent there.

[ambchang]

That's why I specifically named "inexpensive quality role players" who won't demand the salaries that VanVleet and Brooks did. Wright and Burks are both nonstarters. Neither would possibly demand the $40mil yearly salary that VanVleet does. Spurs might be able to get both for less than Brooks's yearly salary of about $20mil.
You are trying to say Houston got better because of wright and Burks?

[SouthernFryd]

New Coach

[sfernald]

Starting to feel more and more that a lot of the Spurs problems could be solved with a couple of moves:

1) Trade Keldon
2) Move Sochan to the bench
3) Acquire a starting-caliber PG or a young player worth developing into a starting caliber PG (Ivey perhaps?)
4) Move Devin to SF

I would try to do this:

1) Trade Keldon + CHA pick to DET for Jaden Ivey
2) Move Sochan to the bench unit
3) Starting 5 becomes Ivey, Bran, Devin, Wemby, Collins
4) Ivey is a good fit because he could develop into a starting caliber PG, or if you have an opportunity to draft one of the top PG prospects in the draft, Ivey can slide to the 2 and send Bran back to the bench

Biggest concern here is that if leaves a hole at the SG position off the bench, but perhaps Graham can fill some of those minutes.

New Rotation:

Ivey/Tre/Blake
Bran/Graham/Blake
Devin/Cedi/Doug/Champ
Wemby/Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
Collins/Bassey/Mamu

in addition to getting Ivey, I like moving Zach out of the starting lineup and just playing Wemby at his proper position. If Chet can manage it with his size, I’m confident Wemby should be able to too.

i really like:

Ivey / Bran / Ves / Sochan / Wemby

Here is my potential trade for Ivey that I think might be good enough for pistons to pry him away:

https://i.postimg.cc/nrDw8Sx1/IMG-0512.jpg

[BacktoBasics]

in addition to getting Ivey, I like moving Zach out of the starting lineup and just playing Wemby at his proper position. If Chet can manage it with his size, I’m confident Wemby should be able to too.

i really like:

Ivey / Bran / Ves / Sochan / Wemby

Here is my potential trade for Ivey that I think might be good enough for pistons to pry him away:

https://i.postimg.cc/nrDw8Sx1/IMG-0512.jpg

Way too much to give up. Jaden can't crack the rotation on a losing team but you want him to start? Nothing to replace Keldon's production on a team that desperately needs a number 1 scoring option. Wiseman cannot be resigned either.

I like Ivey. So its not that I'm not open to it but Keldon becomes more expendable when we have a more cohesive roster with better scoring.

Your trade doesn't make the team better.

[slick'81]

Pg hole is definitely glaring

[sfernald]

Way too much to give up. Jaden can't crack the rotation on a losing team but you want him to start? Nothing to replace Keldon's production on a team that desperately needs a number 1 scoring option. Wiseman cannot be resigned either.

I like Ivey. So its not that I'm not open to it but Keldon becomes more expendable when we have a more cohesive roster with better scoring.

Your trade doesn't make the team better.

A lot of scouts thought he was the best in class the year he was drafted. And he actually had a good first year. Look at his percentages. And he has all nba potential still. You aren’t going to get him cheap. That’s not too much to give up at all to perhaps get someone who can eventually drive and score at will and set the table finally for Wemby.

Yeah I mean it sucks what we have to give up, but guys like him don’t fall into this weird situation with a team that often. We have Monty to thank for this opportunity.

[SOMA Spur]

Rather just draft our starting pg with our first. If we stay bottom 6 we can probably get our guy (Topic, Collier, Castle? - whoever the braintrust likes). Then address our other holes - Defense/overall talent level. Maybe sign OG to a Max this summer? Save a Keldon trade for next years deadline, package him and a bunch of picks for a star who fits what our team will need.

[Obstructed_View]

Biggest need for the present: someone to tell the team to stop sagging down into the paint and leaving shooters wide open. Do that one thing and the Spurs suddenly start winning more games than they lose.

[spurraider21]

I think the Spurs should see if they can't sneak in and grab OG during the deadline, especially if the price isn't much more than say Keldon and their pick back. That's both so that the Spurs would have way more options if they could go into the next season above the cap and use Bird rights and exceptions and because if OG walks, the Spurs would actually have a path toward a max slot if they could dump that salary. So its downside is not terrible, even if the top plan would obviously be to not lose the guy.

Yes, though, they need a top perimeter defender so that Wemby can actually shine. It would be nice for them to run good defenders at every other position, but their lack of competent perimeter D is sinking them. No matter what folks here want to say about Sochan, he has work to do to even be decent there.
i love OG as an on-court fit. the concern is what kind of contract he'd be looking at. we had a dedicated thread discussing OG as a player to offer a max at next offseason.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302344

otoh, philly is going to be a team with a lot of spending power next offseason, and i could see him being a target of theirs

[mo7888]

We need upgrades at some point that move KJ and Sochan to the bench to play the 3 &4 respectively. I'd also like to see a young C out of this draft (Filipowski?).

The issue is there aren't many PG's or SF's on other rosters that would be an upgrade that are gettable. I've seen Ivey mentioned and he might be a possibility, but there's not much else. If you can think of someone I'd love to hear it. I don't mean stopgap guys either, but rather guys who have a chance to be SL caliber players. The same holds for SF's. Who gettable at that position?

The draft might have a couple guys in that 6-15 range that 'could' be the right fit.. ideally I'd like a lineup like this-

PG- New Player/ Tre
SG- Devin/Branham
SF- New Player/KJ
PF- Wembanyama/ Sochan
C- Collins/Filipowski (or other college pick)

[tim_duncan_fan]

Domineering/demanding/commanding point guard who can also shoot the 3
Tall rebounding shot-blocking defensive big

[TD 21]

:lmao I don't know what's worse, thinking a 5th overall pick, 1.5 years removed, with no indication (despite Williams inexplicably limiting his role) he's on the way to being a bust, could be had for Johnson and minor draft capital or thinking that the Spurs offering that would be too much.

The reality is, unless the Pistons do something stupid like decide to accelerate their timeline by offering Ivey and expiring's for a "star" like LaVine, it's too early to make a determination because his value is unclear with a relatively small sample size.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurs don't need anything right now. They only need to figure out the best way to utilize Wemby and who's who on the roster. They're not a good team right now and they can't be because they can't shoot and can't defend. I imagine in a couple of years there'll be like 3 or 4 players from the current roster on the team.

Figure yourself out, optimize your future picks and keep Wemby engaged and happy. The record doesn't matter right now.

[ginobilized]

Biggest needs are elite passing and elite rebounding. Could be the same player. Jokic, anyone?
A couple of above average defenders would help, too. I'm hoping for a playmaker and a rebounder in the draft, along with some good luck between our possible extra picks. Probably find a defensive piece or two over the summer.

As I watch this team more, I really think Pop is letting them figure things out which is admirable, in the long run. He's not making it easy for them, though, the talent might not be there anyway.

I do believe they will have some transformations as the season goes on, but, will likely be in the lottery once again when all is said and done. Wemby will be ROY unless something really strange or unfortunate happens. I think Pop will allow him just enough room to win it, but, keep it kind of close.

A tall, elite passer could get Wemby 40-50 pts on a good night. We are going to have to wait on that, though.