Grades: Spurs vs. Kings - Nov. 17, 2023

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/2023-spurs-kings-grades-12/

Getting there, tbh.

[SouthernFryd]

Not so impressed with Wemby. His physical size is a force all its own, but his BBIQ...I dunno. He seems to be a black hole. If he dribbles up the court he wants to just shoot a 3. And he forces a lot.

Here's the thing...there are a bunch of 3 point shooters on the Spurs. All of whom probably shoot a higher % than Wemby. There's a lot better ball handlers as well. Just because he can do certain things, doesn't mean he SHOULD do them. What there's not...is a lot of 7'4" guys on the team with an 8' wingspan. Wemby should never be more than 18' from the basket at any time. If he ONLY played D in that area...the Spurs would probably have a couple of extra wins, even without Playing offense. If he ONLY played defense AND offense within that 18'...the Spurs might even have a winning record. He is that good...

I don't know what Pop's thinking...and I really don't want to get inside his head. Place is a mess...;)

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Enjoyed the fight our guys showed all game. Mamu actually was a nice spark off the bench and the team is slowly starting to figure out that throwing the ball towards Victor at the rim is usually a smart decision. Lol.


Victor really needs to clean up his shot selection and not jump at so many pump fakes, but I’m loving his aggressive play on both sides of the ball.

[spursparker9]

More Mamu. Less Champaigne

[sananspursfan21]

The fight was there, which is all I think we can ask for at this point.

[ElNono]

The fight was there, which is all I think we can ask for at this point.

I mean, they lost 6 in a row before that game and were playing at home. I think we're well past the "at least they put up a fight" stage.

[Davidicus]

Lots do be positive about this game. Felt good to actually go on a few runs and play solid basketball on both ends of the court.

[venitian navigator]

This season is for experience and experiments... We're supposed to lose and to fight just for three quarters... Like last season. I think what the F. O. Needed to know has already been accomplished in the first three games... If we go full speed and use some defensive energy we already can play with anybody... But we still don't have the skills to be a for sure play off team (nor, obviously, a contender team). You can't win two straight games on the court of a supposed contending team if you have no real strength... But our actual strength has been valued to still be not enough to reach any real goal...draft and trades are on the horizon for at least this year... So no surprise for losses, even bad ones (that's what happen when your main goal is not to win as many games as possible) because this season our main goal is not to win but to draft another high draft pick (maybe two). . Next season could already be a different story...

[itzsoweezee]

Champaigne appears to have forgotten how to play basketball. The fast break he led where he almost lost control of the ball with no defender near him, only to forcefully brick a left handed layup captured his quality of play this season. Time to give someone else a shot with his minutes (preferably Mamu) and revisit Champaigne in garbage time opportunities

[paperboy77]

Not so impressed with Wemby. His physical size is a force all its own, but his BBIQ...I dunno. He seems to be a black hole. If he dribbles up the court he wants to just shoot a 3. And he forces a lot.

Here's the thing...there are a bunch of 3 point shooters on the Spurs. All of whom probably shoot a higher % than Wemby. There's a lot better ball handlers as well. Just because he can do certain things, doesn't mean he SHOULD do them. What there's not...is a lot of 7'4" guys on the team with an 8' wingspan. Wemby should never be more than 18' from the basket at any time. If he ONLY played D in that area...the Spurs would probably have a couple of extra wins, even without Playing offense. If he ONLY played defense AND offense within that 18'...the Spurs might even have a winning record. He is that good...

I don't know what Pop's thinking...and I really don't want to get inside his head. Place is a mess...;)

Almost sounded like you were blaming Wemby but you redeemed yourself at the end. Pop is famous for being somewhat of a dictator with regards to execution. Why won't he tell Wemby to cut all that stuff? At a recent interview he did say soon they will evaluate what works and what doesn't so I really hope they ID this kind of stuff.

[paperboy77]

There is zero reason why Mamu isn't a rotation guy. The guy plays hustle d, can see the floor extremely well and has some physicality to him. Not to mention the guy has really good size. He should take every bit of Bassey's minutes and shift Wemby to the 5 during those times.

Also, Champenny... that dude is not NBA caliber right now. He's gotta go.

[z0sa]

Some positives again, especially KJ bringing up the ball instead of Sochan about half the time. I really liked that compared to Sochan walking it up barely able to dribble. Please end the Sochan PG experiment soon, Pop. Please

[Mugen]

Mamuuuuuuuuu

1 step forward, 2 steps back after they get their doors blown off against Memphis tonight tbh :lol

[wildbill2u]

Re: Wemby shooting 3s. Reminds me of a famous quote attributed to Samuel Johnson about a dancing bear. "It isn't so much that the bear dances, but it is amazing that he appears to anyone to be dancing at all."

Pop repeatedly has said that the staff want to observe him for a while to see what he can do well and is comfortable with before trying to teach him anything. OK. It might be time to start teaching before the kid gets into some bad habits.

[Chinook]

It's amazing what Pop will do to not play Graham. He's the obvious guy to start when Vassell is out. But not only does he not start, but he has to watch Blake get minutes over him.

[jjspur]

At least they didn't lose by 40. I suppose that's a positive.

[JeffDuncan]

Not so impressed with Wemby. His physical size is a force all its own, but his BBIQ...I dunno.
…



IQ fundamentally expresses the ability to learn. But for learning to occur, teaching has to occur. So, where’s the teaching? Is the serious question. You can’t determine IQ in the absence of an effort to teach.

Everybody knows how kids play out on the playground when left to themselves. They bomb away from long range to see if they can hit one. They try fancy dribbling moves. That kind of stuff. Older folks will do that too, just fooling around.

Pop says he has to watch Wemby before he will know how to coach him. So Pop and everybody watches, and what do we see? Wemby shoots from long range too much and he dribbles too much. Well duh. A random 12-year old could show you that, if you’re just watching him do his thing.

This whole bit with Pop and Wemby has been nothing but stupid. Wemby ought to have begun receiving professional quality NBA coaching from the first moment he set foot on a Spurs practice court. It’s not too late.

[dbestpro]

Replace Sochan minutes at PG with Graham and Bassey with Mamu, and you might start to see more Ws.

[spurraider21]

I mean, they lost 6 in a row before that game and were playing at home. I think we're well past the "at least they put up a fight" stage.
Eh. This team is expected to lose a lot. They got wemby, but added a 19 year old wemby to the same roster that tanked for him without any other real changes. The Vegas over/under was 28.5 wins. I can live with losses as long as they’re building toward something and getting good experience out of it. Losing games by 40+ with utter dysfunction on both ends isn’t that

[spurs10]

It's amazing what Pop will do to not play Graham. He's the obvious guy to start when Vassell is out. But not only does he not start, but he has to watch Blake get minutes over him. That was my wish before the game. Graham's ball handling skills could be useful out there.

[Tyronn Lue]

I mean, they lost 6 in a row before that game and were playing at home. I think we're well past the "at least they put up a fight" stage.
Not really.

[Tyronn Lue]

IQ fundamentally expresses the ability to learn. But for learning to occur, teaching has to occur. So, where’s the teaching? Is the serious question. You can’t determine IQ in the absence of an effort to teach.

Everybody knows how kids play out on the playground when left to themselves. They bomb away from long range to see if they can hit one. They try fancy dribbling moves. That kind of stuff. Older folks will do that too, just fooling around.

Pop says he has to watch Wemby before he will know how to coach him. So Pop and everybody watches, and what do we see? Wemby shoots from long range too much and he dribbles too much. Well duh. A random 12-year old could show you that, if you’re just watching him do his thing.

This whole bit with Pop and Wemby has been nothing but stupid. Wemby ought to have begun receiving professional quality NBA coaching from the first moment he set foot on a Spurs practice court. It’s not too late.
Pretty sure Victor didn't just come from the playground. He has to get over his "generational talent" hurdles and figure out how to capitalize on his true strengths. No one wants to be Kareem these days, everyone wants to be Steph. Pop is the most respected NBA coach in the world plus the Spurs have a team of coaches, not just Pop. They aren't going to build a winning team in 20 games.

[TheGreatYacht]

I don't agree with Chinook's basketball takes almost ever but he's right about Graham. The guy had 7 assists in 14 minutes against OKC. It takes Sochan like 2 games to get that

[JeffDuncan]

It's amazing what Pop will do to not play Graham. He's the obvious guy to start when Vassell is out. But not only does he not start, but he has to watch Blake get minutes over him.


It’s only that Graham is not under development, but Wesley is.

[ElNono]

Eh. This team is expected to lose a lot. They got wemby, but added a 19 year old wemby to the same roster that tanked for him without any other real changes. The Vegas over/under was 28.5 wins. I can live with losses as long as they’re building toward something and getting good experience out of it. Losing games by 40+ with utter dysfunction on both ends isn’t that

I'm cool with "building towards something". But to do that your bar needs to be higher than "at least they tried to put up a fight", especially after losing 6 in a row and playing at home, IMO. That should be the default if you have any sense of self-pride.

The season is long, and yeah, we probably going to lose a lot as we learn, but you have to see some incremental progress in different areas, and I'm just not seeing it right now.

[baseline bum]

Pretty sure Victor didn't just come from the playground. He has to get over his "generational talent" hurdles and figure out how to capitalize on his true strengths. No one wants to be Kareem these days, everyone wants to be Steph. Pop is the most respected NBA coach in the world plus the Spurs have a team of coaches, not just Pop. They aren't going to build a winning team in 20 games.

Victor doesn't have the strength to be Kareem right now. It wasn't just the skyhook, it was being able to gain and hold position down low to make the skyhook a high percentage shot for Abdul-Jabbar. Victor is easily pushed off his spots right now and won't have the ability to be that kind of player until he puts on some more muscle.

[SouthernFryd]

Everybody knows how kids play out on the playground when left to themselves. They bomb away from long range to see if they can hit one. They try fancy dribbling moves. That kind of stuff.

Pop says he has to watch Wemby before he will know how to coach him. So Pop and everybody watches, and what do we see? Wemby shoots from long range too much and he dribbles too much. Well duh. A random 12-year old could show you that, if you’re just watching him do his thing.

This whole bit with Pop and Wemby has been nothing but stupid. Wemby ought to have begun receiving professional quality NBA coaching from the first moment he set foot on a Spurs practice court. It’s not too late.

This.

It's like watching some high school star playing a pick-up game in the park. Just goofing around and trying to show off. Almost all teenagers do the same thing. It takes some serious heart to heart and face time to mature their game.

Wemby looks like...no, he plays like he hasn't had that come-to-Jesus moment yet. "You're not getting paid a gazillion dollars to fuck around and do what you want. You're getting paid a magamazillion dollars to help us win. So, get your ass around the basket and stay there!"

2010 POP mighta said it just like that. It's what Wemby needs and probably wants...even if he doesn't know it yet. Like most teenagers, they resent it until they don't. lol.

2023 POP is probably trading Quiche Lorraine recipes...

[Tyronn Lue]

Victor doesn't have the strength to be Kareem right now. It wasn't just the skyhook, it was being able to gain and hold position down low to make the skyhook a high percentage shot for Abdul-Jabbar. Victor is easily pushed off his spots right now and won't have the ability to be that kind of player until he puts on some more muscle.
True, but I was talking about who players want to be, which is probably why Victor thinks the 3pt pullup is a good look vs something closer to the basket.

[Davidicus]

I’m assuming we all watched the ESPN broadcast, where they played a short clip of Pop coaching Wemby on returning to balance before going up for a shot again.

I don’t believe Pop is just letting him go free rein like a few ppl are suggesting. Based on his latest press conference sounds like he’s restricting the coaching staff from putting him into any subset of schemes or styles. I’m sure he’s coaching fundamentals to him, like balance, shot selection, etc etc